The High EQ Marketer: Every Marketer Needs Great Content, with Melissa Zehner

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:20.199 Hey, friends, welcome in today I'm thrilled to feature an episode from one 3 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:25.120 of our clients and the show is called the High Eq marketer and John Busby, 4 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.760 who is the host and his center field CMO. He's here with us. 5 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:32.359 John, glad to have you on B two B growth. Benji, 6 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.960 I'm glad to be here and I love that we're doing a crossover. You 7 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:39.799 know, when I was, when I was a youth, TV shows typically 8 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:43.840 did crossovers. The fresh prince of Bel Air would do a crossover with the 9 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:48.799 Jeffersons. You know, George Clooney would show up on friends. So so 10 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:53.960 I'm all about this and those are always the best episodes. So, listeners, 11 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.640 you are in for a treat, because I just remember like that. 12 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.759 You would always look forward to it, and that's I mean got you right. 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.960 They got you at a crossover episodes. Okay, so John, you're 14 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:07.840 here because before we go to the featured conversation, I wanted to get a 15 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.280 quick like premise description and give some understanding to our listeners. So tell me 16 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:17.280 a little bit about your your show, the High Eq marketer. I'm a 17 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:21.959 CMO, I I'm always learning. I feel like I need to constantly hone 18 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.359 and learn my craft and I feel like throughout the course of my career I've 19 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.159 learned from talking to other marketers, not necessarily in my industry, and also 20 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:36.840 talking to specialists, whether they're an S C O specialist or content marketing specialist 21 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.040 or or branding specialist or come from an agency background, and so I wanted 22 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:47.040 to have a podcast where I could learn from talking to experts across marketing. 23 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.560 And it's called the High Eq marketer because there are these trends that I've been 24 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.280 seeing really that have accelerated over the pandemic that I wanted to talk about. 25 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:02.040 One is the importance of making in a sational connection that's inside your organization, 26 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:07.480 with your marketing team outside the organization, to the folks that you're selling to. 27 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.439 That's one. Second, I think that everything that you do in an 28 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:16.479 organization comes down to marketing and is a representation of your brand. And then, 29 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:22.560 third, I feel like marketing has become hyper specialized in all these different 30 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.879 ways and I want to learn about those specializations in this podcast. So that's 31 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:30.840 that's the premise and I'm really enjoying doing it so far. I appreciate the 32 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.960 unique nature of wanting to look intentionally outside of just you could go. We 33 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:38.759 wanna Talk Marketing in, you know, more B Two b space, but 34 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:45.240 like looking intentionally outside of just that at other leaders and other industries. I 35 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:49.400 think that it's always a great way to learn and and potentially pivot things that 36 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.599 you're doing, uh, to try something new. I wonder, now that 37 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.719 you've been doing this for a bit, what are some of the episodes that 38 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.800 you really enjoy? Maybe upcoming episodes that people could get excited about? I've 39 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:07.759 had some really great episodes so far. I've talked to marketers and fields as 40 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:13.680 diverse as restaurants and cloud software and subscription based coffee. It's round the gamut. 41 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:19.120 But the ones coming up I am stoked for. I am interviewing the 42 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.599 CO inventor of Siri in a couple of weeks and and he he's going to 43 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:28.319 tell the story about marketing and creating Syria and also what it was like to 44 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:31.400 work with Steve Jobs. He's got some personal stories there. That's gonna be 45 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:36.919 really cool. And then the episode that's dropping next week. I'm not sure 46 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.520 when this episode is going to come out is a conversation with the former chief 47 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:46.120 marketing officer of Nike, and there's so many cool things about that episode, 48 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.960 things that he learned from Lebron James, which is really cool, and then 49 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.840 also that his path to CMO was non traditional. He started out at Nike 50 00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.360 as a design intern. So, uh, those two episodes I'm really pumped 51 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:05.240 about. Well, that that gives some great context and I think I got 52 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:09.800 to tune into the Nike episode because I got to say I'm not the biggest 53 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:13.840 Lebron James Fan, but it's still intriguing and I love Nike and I was 54 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.560 wearing wearing my nikes today. So all right, tell us what episode you 55 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:24.360 chose to to bring to us today and maybe the why behind it. The 56 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:29.399 episode that I chose today as a conversation I had with Melissa Zaner. She 57 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:35.800 is the head of content for an agency called foundation, and so she was 58 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:41.160 she and I have a really in depth conversation about content marketing, how to 59 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:44.360 do it, how to hire writers, how to how to think about a 60 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.560 content strategy and if you're in in B two B or you're really in any 61 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:54.079 industry, how you communicate to your audience with contents one of the most important 62 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.399 things that you can do. So that's why I chose that one. And 63 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:59.680 she's an expert. So I think if you listen you learn a lot. 64 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:05.439 Well, I appreciate you stopping by, John, and excited for this episode. 65 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:10.639 Hey, if you're listening and you're interested in starting a podcast for your 66 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:15.600 business, you can go to sweet fish media dot com and feel free. 67 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.279 We have tons of free resources and then you can always reach out and and 68 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:25.720 now it's time to jump into today's episode from the High Eq Marketer. John, 69 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:32.040 thanks for being here and listeners enjoy. Thank you, Benji. Welcome 70 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.759 to the high eq marketer. I'm John Buzzby. This show is about learning 71 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:39.639 from the best and most interesting marketers in the world, which are, not 72 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.560 a coincidence, highly emotionally intelligent. If you'd like inspiration, lessons, war 73 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.079 stories, from startups or Fortuneies, that's why we're here. So let's go. 74 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.759 Hi, Melissa, how are you? I'm well today. How are 75 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.720 you, John? I'm doing I'm doing great. Um, so we're not 76 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.360 here to talk about about voting, but in the coding world there's this holy 77 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:06.639 war around tabs versus spaces. I don't know if you've seen the episode in 78 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:12.600 of Silicon Valley that really really makes fun of that. Um, in the 79 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:19.120 editorial world, where do you stand on one space or two spaces between sentences, 80 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.399 and are there any kind of editorial pet peeves or hills that you die 81 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:29.680 on? It has to be one space after a period. I am probably 82 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.120 in that camp. That is a hill I will die on. The two 83 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:39.680 spaces after a period was something that was came about during the days when we 84 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:45.360 were all using typewriters. Now that we have moved to a completely different machine, 85 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.600 it's no longer necessary. So firmly in the one space after a period 86 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:53.199 camp. And I'm going to add another hill that I will also die on, 87 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:58.759 which is Oxford Comma or death. Okay, right on. Well, 88 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.720 uh, I I didn't start learning to type on a typewriter, but but 89 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:08.959 I will say that that whenever I started, I was either told to do 90 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.439 to spaces or whatever, and I have a really hard time stopping, stopping, 91 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:16.879 so I have to set up my my like a word auto correct thing 92 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:23.279 to uh, to stop myself. Um, Melissa, you your your background, 93 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.759 you you've done everything in terms of content. You've been a writer, 94 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.399 editor. Now you're a leader, and I know we're going to get deep 95 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:35.600 into content marketing strategies, but if you were to pick one adjective, I 96 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.199 feel like a lot of my questions are going to be grammar related today. 97 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:45.240 You could if if there's one adjective you would pick to describe the best content 98 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:51.079 marketing strategies, what what would it be? And why deliberate? I think 99 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:59.079 many organizations treat content as an afterthought. There's a go to market strategy, 100 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:05.199 a really wrong paid program and oftentimes people create content and then say, okay, 101 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:09.600 how do we fit this into what's already going on? Right, Um, 102 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:13.720 and it's never going to generate the same level of quality results that it 103 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:18.279 would if it was integrated from the beginning. So I think just starting there 104 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:24.399 from the beginning and including content from the get go is going to naturally give 105 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.360 you a much stronger strategy. Right, don't create it as an afterthought. 106 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.559 Along the same lines, content strategy, just like any other marketing channel strategy, 107 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:39.000 needs to directly align with and support the broader marketing organization's goals. Right. 108 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:45.480 So I also think it's important to start there and reverse engineer content that's 109 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.440 going to help you meet those goals. Versus, once again, just creating 110 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:50.960 something and saying great, how do we fit this in? Where does it 111 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.559 go? So that makes a lot of sense to me. What what are 112 00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:00.399 the are the building blocks of a content marketing strategy? Like, like, 113 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:05.240 Um, you're you're meeting with a client for the first time. You're thinking 114 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.799 about it for your own brand. You're going to execute a content marketing strategy. 115 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:13.000 Like what? What kind of planning needs to be done in advance? 116 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.679 If you if you kind of know what I mean? Yeah, first and 117 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.320 foremost, audience research. Who are you talking to? What makes them tick? 118 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.279 What gets them excited, what frustrates them? What problems can you solve 119 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:30.039 for them? Understanding your audience and your ideal customer is always going to be 120 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.960 key, right, because the whole point of content, if it's performing well, 121 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.720 is getting that engagement, and you can engage someone if you don't know 122 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.080 what they're all about, right. So that's always the first place to start. 123 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.639 I think research is always really crucial. A lot of people aren't doing 124 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.320 research. They're just spinning out content to check the box, right, taking 125 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.799 the time to see what competitors are doing or not doing? What people are 126 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:58.639 searching for, what they're complaining about is great. Um, that helps you 127 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:03.279 figure out every piece of content that you need to be creating, whether it's 128 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.960 a blog post and email, even a tweet. Right. That's how you 129 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:11.440 really start getting people interested and having a conversation with you, versus you just 130 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:18.879 sort of speaking to them. How that you talked about some some parts of 131 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:24.480 the research where you're looking at what people are searching for Google and what competitors 132 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:31.360 are doing. Do you think at all about trying to like create an emotional 133 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:33.399 connection? And I think, I think we listen, we're gonna talk a 134 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.480 lot about B two B content. Um, is it weird to think of 135 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.840 that for a b two be audience like an emotional connection, because we're like 136 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.159 here to talk business or you know what I mean? I know what you 137 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.840 mean, and the answer is not at all. Even in B two B, 138 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:52.840 we're still talking to people, right, a business is just a bunch 139 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:58.440 of people with a common goal. It's still a person that is the decision 140 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.720 maker. It's a person that is deciding to buy, click, subscribe, 141 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:09.559 whatever that action is that they're taking, right. And so there's this misconception 142 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.840 and B two B that everyone needs to be very professional and very stuffy and 143 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.600 very conservative because we have this view in our heads that that's what the business 144 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.320 world is like, and there are segments of the business world that are like 145 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.600 that, sure, but we're all still people, right, and so being 146 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.840 able to create an authentic human experience is going to take you much further with 147 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:35.519 your content than anything that seems as professional as possible, right, Um, 148 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.039 just like B two C, if you can engage people on an emotional level, 149 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.399 you're going to have their attention. Yeah, I can see that, 150 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.759 Um, is so I wanted to dive a little bit deeper into the notion 151 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:58.159 of being stuffy. Like I really enjoy reading things that feel conversational to me. 152 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:03.120 I mean Malcolm Gladwell, what he writes just like everything rolls off his 153 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.559 tongue or his pen like perfectly. It just just it just feels so right 154 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.320 to read, at least at least to me. But sometimes I read, 155 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:18.159 I read B Two b content and the tone and style is trying to Communic, 156 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.000 communicate to me like on a on a personal conversational level, but doesn't 157 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:28.159 really feel authentic. So, Um, how how do you think about that? 158 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.519 That level of authenticity, tone, style, how does how does the 159 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.159 brand figure that out. I think you have to start with your audience. 160 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:43.759 We talked a little bit earlier about understanding them right. What makes them tick? 161 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:46.759 What are they frustrated by? Where are they hanging out online? The 162 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:54.360 other thing that's really easy to Glean from that research upfront is how they're talking, 163 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.399 and if you can replicate that and talk to them in a way that 164 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.720 they're comfortable with, then you're going to stand a better chance of creating engaging 165 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.320 content or content that they're going to notice. Right. So if your audience 166 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:13.600 is very casual, you probably need to be very casual. If your audience 167 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.799 is short on time and very efficient and sending five word tweets and that's how 168 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.120 they like to talk, that's how you should probably be talking as well. 169 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.000 So you know, Um, I majored in in social science and school. 170 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:30.039 So in social science they talk about this concept of mirroring, right. So 171 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:35.600 that's how we oftentimes make other people more comfortable. You're watching someone else talk 172 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.440 and you're nodding, you're saying, you're giving them that constant feedback, right. 173 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.480 So you can take this concept of mirroring and apply it in content marketing 174 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.440 and start mirroring your audience a little bit better so that they feel like your 175 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.200 brand is a really good fit and they feel comfortable having a conversation with you. 176 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.320 Yeah, okay, I like that. So so we've we've gotten to 177 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:03.240 know our audience a little bit and we we have the background research and we've 178 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:09.519 developed this tone, tone and style for for, let's say, a typical 179 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.080 client of yours. May maybe there's no such thing as a typical client, 180 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.000 but how do you break down the types of content, the types of content 181 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.080 you need? Like, imagine you're in, Um, a kickoff meeting or 182 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.159 brainstorm meeting with someone, someone new, a new client or or someone on 183 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:30.799 your team that you're mentoring. What are the elements of a content marketing strategy 184 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.320 at that point? It's going to vary based on what the rest of their 185 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.960 marketing strategy looks like. Right. So, for a company that is very 186 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.720 product led, the content may need to reflect that. So are we looking 187 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.679 at features or solutions of the company offers that directly solve the problems that people 188 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:56.159 are having? Right, Um, think of comparison pages on a website or 189 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.480 a technical support page that would tell you exactly how to do something step by 190 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.120 step on a software as you're on boarding. So that's an option. Then 191 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:13.840 you have companies that are very focused on being a lifestyle brand. Think something 192 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:18.320 like Nike or Apple. Right, it becomes really integrated into almost every aspect 193 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.919 of someone's life. So then you're going to be producing pieces of content that 194 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.679 are much more focused on that emotional element, making someone feel like they're part 195 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.759 of a community, making them feel like you get them. Right. Um, 196 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.480 so I think again, it really depends on the larger strategy that's at 197 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:39.840 play there and how content marketing fits into it. It integrates with it really 198 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.240 well. So, unfortunately, like many things in marketing, the right answer 199 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:48.320 is it depends. Yes, because right there's no one right answer for every 200 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.879 client. You know, I built my career in content marketing and for a 201 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.360 long time focus really heavily on organic, but I often times have saddened meetings 202 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:02.279 with clients the past few years and listen to them talk and said, you 203 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.039 know, I don't think that organic is a really good starting place for you. 204 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.759 Right, I think you should start with email marketing or I think you 205 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.080 should do some paid landing pages first and, you know, work your way 206 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.399 into it. So if you're if you're being really thoughtful about your job, 207 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.279 it's much more about what is a good fit for the client in that moment 208 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:25.320 versus just sort of pushing a model that you're used to onto them. Right. 209 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.919 Yeah, that that's true, Um. And you mentioned the term organic. 210 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.120 So I wanna, I want to kind of Um, click into that 211 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.759 a little bit. And you and I have have joked off camera about the 212 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.240 concept of writing for Google. You know, Google is going to be the 213 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:49.039 source of so much for any business and and there's almost like this this playbook, 214 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:55.399 if you will, for how how you how you write in the hopes 215 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:59.799 that Google will like what you say. But Google is a robot and you're 216 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.360 writing. You know, you know what I mean. So, UM, 217 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:10.640 Melissa, breakdown for me the how you should consider google as part of the 218 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:15.559 equation of content marketing. That's a great question. I actually had to correct 219 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:22.440 a writer this week who kept writing the phrase the Google Bot thinks, and 220 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.279 I kept, I kept commenting on this document saying does the Google but think 221 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.799 isn't thinking right now. But we we are so used to that, right, 222 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.720 and especially in content marketing, there is this idea of somehow having to 223 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.720 pray to the Google gods to get the results that you're looking for. Um, 224 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.400 you can't overlook S E O. I think if you're going to be 225 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.720 successful in content marketing from an organic standpoint, you absolutely still need to be 226 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:51.279 following seo best practices. Um. In my opinion, the people that say 227 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.640 just right, good content and it'll rank are being a little blase and possibly 228 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.880 a little naive about it. At this point in time, there are people 229 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.079 publishing millions of new pieces of content. What, what is it every minute? 230 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.720 Um, that's a lot of competition that's out there in the world, 231 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.359 right. So you do have to be thoughtful about it. I don't how 232 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:14.160 or think you should write first and foremost for Google. I oftentimes advise writers 233 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.519 to think of it in terms of a check in process. So you want 234 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:22.079 to be very well versed in how the algorithm works, the factors that Google 235 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.960 uses to decide how it's going to rank a piece of content. Right, 236 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.839 what good page experience looks like, and you want to have that in the 237 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.160 back of your head as you're creating a piece of copy. Right. And 238 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.519 there should be these moments in time where you stop and you do this little 239 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.759 check in. Right. We know that Google likes keywords and subheads. We 240 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:45.400 know that Google likes you to present information in a question and answer format. 241 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.680 We know that Google likes you to break things up into bulleted lists or easier 242 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:55.480 to digest information. We know that Google really likes it if you have multimedia 243 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.119 that also corresponds with the topic you're talking about. So if you happen to 244 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.000 have a short video that ties in, embed that in the in the post, 245 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.319 right, but it's it should be something that really is just sort of 246 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.319 there as an undertone in the back of your mind while you're creating a piece 247 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.400 of content and periodically do that check in and if you can ask yourself, 248 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.039 is what I'm doing right now hurting or helping? S C oh if you 249 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.640 say no, it's probably helping, then you're going the right direction. Right. 250 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.160 If you can ask yourself some of those questions and you know that you're 251 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.039 not doing any of those things as you're crafting the piece, then no, 252 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:33.000 it's probably not going to rank that well right. Yeah, I feel like 253 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:40.279 Um like writing, writing that really draws you in and captivates you, is 254 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:45.160 is a bit of a lost art. And and whereas in the old days 255 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.599 I have I have that in quotes. In the old days, like Um 256 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.039 like writing, in the use of words and and everything was maybe the most 257 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.400 important skill in marketing. Now, Um, getting to be UH CMO or 258 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:04.680 advancing and marketing. Some folks might look at at analytics or paid search experience 259 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:10.039 or whatever. Um, I want to ask you about that. But let 260 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:14.559 me actually want wind back for a second. How do you actually hire a 261 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:21.160 writer? Because I feel like I when I see see good writing, I 262 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.960 can I kind of know what it is, but I don't know if I 263 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:29.519 know how to interview for it. That's a wonderful question. I hire writers 264 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.440 very discerning Lee. First and foremost, I ask a lot of questions. 265 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:38.799 Um, you really have to get past the portfolio and into the character of 266 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:44.119 the person. So one of my favorite questions to ask is whether someone reads. 267 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.799 In my experience a lot of aspiring writers spend a lot of time cranking 268 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.759 out content, which is great. We all need a portfolio, we all 269 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:57.920 need to practice the craft, but they're not actually reading Um, and so 270 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.440 there are things you can learn by reading someone else's work that you're not going 271 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.000 to learn by just writing right. And it doesn't have to be an industry 272 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.680 pub it doesn't even have to be a marketing book. I, having built 273 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.079 a career in content. Oftentimes in reading poetry or a novel and the author 274 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.559 has done something really clever and I have this moment where you step out of 275 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.240 the story for a minute and say, Oh, I see what you did 276 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.680 there. That was really genius, right. Or someone uses a really a 277 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.920 really great turn of phrase that just captures a moment. You know. Um, 278 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.119 I on a personal note, I love F Scott Fitzgerald because if you 279 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:36.680 read the Great Gatsby, there are parts where he describes those summer days so 280 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:41.359 well you can almost smell it. Right, Um, that that's the art, 281 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:47.680 that's the craft of writing. So someone who's actively reading is typically going 282 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.319 to be a better writer. I also look for a level of curiosity. 283 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:57.400 Marketing is always changing, even if someone is just a copywriter. There are 284 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.440 different clients, different in just trees. They're releasing different products. It's evolving 285 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.720 and so, uh, research and learning is a really integral part of the 286 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.440 writing process. It's always going to be that way. So if someone isn't 287 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:15.119 curious and it doesn't naturally enjoy that learning process, they're probably not going to 288 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.440 excel as a writer. Um, I think being able to detach from the 289 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.960 work is very important. Writing in a professional setting is hard. You're signing 290 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.599 up to get feedback all day every day, and there's writing for pleasure and 291 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:33.400 writing for yourself and there's learning to write for your audience, which is not 292 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.880 about you, right, and so you have to detach yourself from that process 293 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.079 a little bit. And in a setting where you're writing for clients, you 294 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.000 also have to write for them and what's going to help them meet their goals. 295 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.839 So being able to remove the ego from that is going to produce a 296 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.240 better result. Right. Um, maybe you don't like it, maybe it's 297 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.359 not your personal style, but if it ties in perfectly with a client's brand 298 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.480 and tone and voice and it's really on track to help them meet their goals, 299 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.880 that's a successful piece of content. Right. That's what we would call 300 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.640 a great piece of content. Um. Final thing I think I would say 301 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.720 is someone who is well versed, or interested in being well versed in skills 302 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.160 that are complementary or adjacent to copyrighting. So someone who is learning about S 303 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:23.200 C o UX, reader, comprehension, branding, even if they're not actively 304 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:27.720 having to write about these things, it's going to give them a stronger understanding 305 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:33.640 of what high caliber content looks like. I love that answer. I have 306 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:38.319 like a million follow ups. I was I was really wondering if you were 307 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:44.160 going to use the term curiosity, because I feel like in in B two 308 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.880 B in particular, like if you were going to write for for my company, 309 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:56.480 center field, there's there's a certain level of understanding of digital marketing or 310 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.480 or certain parts of technology. You kind of need to know that jargon and 311 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.400 how words are going are used in context about where the industry has come to 312 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:10.559 really connect with, Um, with the the audience. And Yeah, it 313 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.400 does make a lot of sense to me that someone who who would, even 314 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:19.039 if they're not passionate about marketing technology, appreciate the process of learning something new 315 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:25.279 and how to how to put it into words. Um, I wonder, 316 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.960 uh, this question kind of just came to me, but I wonder how, 317 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:37.480 as a as a writer, full time writer, you recharge or take 318 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.519 breaks. I I know for me, whether I'm writing for myself or whether 319 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:47.880 I'm I'm writing something for other folks at center field or whatever, I write 320 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:52.200 for two hours, I am exhausted and uh, and maybe that's just me 321 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.680 and how I use my brain, brain in other ways. But Um, 322 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.160 as a writer, how do you keep things going day in and day out. 323 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:07.240 It can be tough. I freelanced for quite a while before I got 324 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.920 my first full time copyrighting job and because I was freelancing, it was very 325 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.839 intermittent work right, which is easier to get through. And then suddenly I'm 326 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.359 sitting in an agency and I've got forty hours plus of writing to get through 327 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:25.359 every week, all day every day. And in that environment you don't have 328 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.400 the luxury of having a writer's block and staring at that cursor for a while. 329 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.119 You don't have the luxury of saying I'll walk the dog and I'll come 330 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.480 back to it later. There are these really stringent timelines and you just have 331 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.440 to get the work written right, Um, and you just have to squeeze 332 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.359 it out. Where does it come from? Um, I'm not sure I 333 00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:49.359 have a complete answer for you, but I will say for me, I 334 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.839 if I was feeling drained or burned out or like I was just tapped out 335 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.960 and didn't have any more creative ideas, that's when I would try to shift 336 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.759 gears and move into research mode for one UM. That's when you take a 337 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.000 break right, start looking up stats and data, start reading up on this 338 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.759 topic, so you can become more of a subject matter expert? Can you 339 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.880 reach out to someone in the industry and schedule an interview and ask them a 340 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.200 few questions? And sometimes that conversation will give you a lot of ideas? 341 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.000 Right? So you're still doing the work, but you're giving your brain a 342 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.799 chance to sort of process, right. I think that's why writing is so 343 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.359 exhausting, because you're taking a specific topic and you're trying to distill it from 344 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.799 every possible angle. Right, have I answered all of the right questions? 345 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.960 Have I covered it in a way that makes sense? Am I also sounding 346 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.079 really smart while I'm saying it? Because that's just a natural human concern, 347 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.319 right, you know. And then you're also thinking about s e o and 348 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:48.559 reader comprehension and all of these other things. You have a deep thought in 349 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.880 the middle of it where you're wondering if your editor is going to hate that 350 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.039 line or not. Right, and that's why it's so exhausting, is because 351 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.160 your brain is on overdrive, and so sometimes I feel like you need to 352 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.759 give your brain a little time to sort of pross us all of that and 353 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.759 catch up and make sense of it. Right, Um, think of it 354 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.680 like sleeping like we go to bed every night and while we're doing that, 355 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.480 that's when our brain organizes everything we learned that day and that's when it puts 356 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.920 memories into different files. Right. Um, that's that's when it actually updates 357 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.240 your memory, your muscle memory, about different skills. So it's kind of 358 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.279 the same thing for a writer, like you're going to go through different phases 359 00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:25.039 and you're going to feel different ways. You cannot just be writing nonstop, 360 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.279 forty hours a week. I don't know anyone who can successfully do it. 361 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.359 There's naturally going to be an Evan flow. I will say, however, 362 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.240 there's a caveat that I want to add in. There are a lot of 363 00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:40.440 people that complain that they're not successful in copyrighting, but they're the same people 364 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.160 that say I had writer's block, I need an extension, I didn't hit 365 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.640 the deadline, I just wasn't inspired by this topic. I've had writers tell 366 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:51.000 me they didn't want work because they didn't think the topic was fun. If 367 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:55.000 you're trying to build your career as a copywriter, you also have to treat 368 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:56.400 it like a job, right, and you have to hit that deadline. 369 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.880 Um, there was this quote that is really famous back in the day, 370 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:08.440 also in quotations, someone asked Somerset mom how he managed to never get writer's 371 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.119 block and he said I'm lucky the mews, the mew shows up every morning 372 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:17.480 at nine am, because when you're being paid for it and your rent depends 373 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:21.440 on it, right, it's a different level of inspiration and motivation. That's 374 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:26.119 funny. Yeah, so, Melissa, your story is really, really interesting. 375 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.519 Um, start, you mentioned starting as a freelancer. Now you're you're 376 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.480 leading a team, you're leading a company effort Um. I'd love, I'd 377 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.559 love for you to share your story, but then also ask answer the question 378 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:44.880 or or or talk about what are the natural ways to advance as a writer, 379 00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:52.359 whether it's into other parts of marketing or becoming a marketing leader. One 380 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.839 I think you have to know what's possible. I see a lot of conversation 381 00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.480 on social media these days and I have a lot of writers reach out to 382 00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:03.920 me who say it's impossible to be a six figure copywriter. You know, 383 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.200 you see all these success gurus on Linkedin, you know, and and everyone 384 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.599 thinks they're full of it, and I'm sure some of them are, I 385 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.400 have no doubt, Um, but it is possible. I know several six 386 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.960 figure copywriters who are doing just that and they haven't even advanced, at least 387 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.319 title wise, at that marketing chain right. Um, they're excellent at what 388 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.559 they do. I talked about that curiosity. So if you're a writer, 389 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:32.039 and especially if you want to succeed in the marketing world, you need to 390 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:37.119 have that understanding. That is going to help you not only succeed in the 391 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.960 role that you're in, but in terms of being a member of a team, 392 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:44.799 in supporting the rest of the department, in your interactions even with other 393 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.799 team embers. So understanding s e o is always going to help the content 394 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.119 rank, but it's also going to help you have an effective conversation with your 395 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:57.000 seo manager right and get that guidance that you need. Understanding you x will 396 00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.480 help you know how to cap off in our ICAL maybe and suggest that someone 397 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:06.319 include a c t a right. Reader comprehension is crucial. There are a 398 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:11.200 lot of people that are wonderful, wonderful writers, but they don't necessarily understand 399 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:17.000 the elements of how reader comprehension keeps someone engaged in a piece and how that 400 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:21.079 level of stickiness can help, especially in a digital environment. So Um, 401 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:26.240 the I has a hard time reading uh Sarah Font versus a sand Sarah Font, 402 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.240 anything that is actually too stark, black and white. The contrast exhaust 403 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.559 the eye. Um, how many characters you have across and body copy? 404 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.079 It shouldn't be more than seventy five if you're on desktop, most most websites 405 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.920 are gonna have nine. These are little things that, if you understand and 406 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.279 you can start weighing in on those conversations, are going to not only elevate 407 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:51.319 how you're looking at the work but also how you're building relationships in the department. 408 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.599 Right. Um, a lot of things that I learned were just because 409 00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:56.079 I was impatient. I was a copywriter. I was paid to sit in 410 00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.000 the corner righte copy, that's it, and sometimes I would go to a 411 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.759 Dev and say, Hey, I've noticed X Y Z isn't working on this 412 00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.680 page. Can you fix it? And someone would say submit a ticket right. 413 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:08.799 Eventually you don't want to do that. So I just started figuring out 414 00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:12.839 myself. Great, I'M gonna look up html and I'm gonna start standing up 415 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.799 on wordpress and I'm going to learn how to do these friend and changes myself, 416 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.480 and then I don't have to wait on Dev right. Um, it 417 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.119 was the same thing with S C oh. I didn't start out learning S 418 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:25.839 C O, but I was writing and no one was reading my stuff and 419 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.039 I really wanted my stuff to get written, so I started learning s e 420 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.400 o so that more people would actually find and read the content. Right. 421 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.400 So I think this, this curiosity, is key, Um, and I 422 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.599 think it will take you very, very far. I have sat in every 423 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:44.000 position on a content marketing team. I was junior copywriter, than senior copywriter, 424 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.920 than editor, than strategists, than manager, now director, right. 425 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:49.759 Um. So it absolutely can be done. I want people to know that 426 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:55.279 it's possible, but you have to have the curiosity and the drive to be 427 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:57.799 really smart about it, the same way that you would any other career. 428 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.519 Right, even a sales person doesn't just know sales. So if you're a 429 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.640 copywriter, you can't just know copyrighting. You have to be really smart about 430 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.440 all of these other things you can learn that can complement your skills and elevate 431 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.759 the quality of the work that you're producing. Uh, that that's an amazing 432 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:22.440 answer. and Um, the question I was going to ask, because sounding 433 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:28.000 sounding really elementary right now, I was going to sort of break down content 434 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:34.400 marketing into like these these metrics which which I had thought of as volume, 435 00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:38.039 distribution and conversion, and then, Um, you're giving me like these PhD 436 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:44.160 level, number number of characters on a on a desktop screen, and I'm 437 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:49.000 feeling like, I'm feeling like maybe I'm not knowing what some of the key 438 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:54.119 metrics or KPI s are for Um, for content writing. Maybe you can 439 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:58.920 break down to me how, how you how you approach looking at success, 440 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:06.680 uh, for a content marketing execution? Well, there's always going to be 441 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:13.359 the qualitative and the quantitative, right, so I want to highlight that quality 442 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:19.519 is always key there. You have to have that piece first and foremost, 443 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:23.359 which means you need to have a successful strategy. You have to be really 444 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:29.279 deliberate, deliberate about how you're approaching content. You need to have a talented 445 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:32.920 copywriter. You probably need to have a talented designer as well, because we're 446 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:38.960 creating for a digital environment. Right. You are going to think of all 447 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:43.039 of those things as the ingredients that are going to help you produce a really 448 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.240 wonderful piece of content. Right. That's just the starting point, though. 449 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:51.480 Once you're done with that piece of content, how are you distributing it? 450 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.799 How is it part of a larger marketing strategy? Is it fitting within a 451 00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:00.920 funnel or a buyer's journey that's going to get someone from point A to B 452 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:06.079 to see until they're ready to buy? How does it fit into the larger 453 00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:10.119 picture? Right? So that's really important as well. The metrics are also 454 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.360 really important and something that I think more people need to pay attention to, 455 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:20.280 especially in content marketing. Metrics are everywhere in a lot of other marketing channels 456 00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:25.079 and it's amazing how many places start off really strong with a pay program and 457 00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.679 then start doing content marketing but tell you that they don't have tracking an attribution 458 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:34.039 in place for their content marketing program. I've been hearing that for ten years. 459 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.840 Right. You can set up tracking an attribution for organic just like you 460 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:40.400 can for paid, and you can know exactly how much revenue it's bringing in. 461 00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:44.840 So I think that's really important if we're talking in terms again of content 462 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.360 marketers that want to advance their careers, just like the pay team is doing. 463 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:51.440 You need to be able to tie your work two leads in revenue, 464 00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:54.679 and when you can successfully do that you've proven your value. Right. So 465 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:59.880 it's also really important to think about those logical next steps along the chain is 466 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:04.960 well, so that you are the full package. Right. That's a successful 467 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:09.119 piece of content. It's something that's quality, it's thoughtful, someone enjoys reading 468 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:14.000 it, but also it's getting you the results that are really going to make 469 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.079 a difference for your client or for your company. I don't know how articulate 470 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:22.719 that was, very I circled around before I drove it home. You know 471 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:28.880 so so, Melissa. Thanks, thank you. Thank you so much. 472 00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:34.000 My last question will be Um. If, if folks listening want to learn 473 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.760 more about what foundation does or what you do, where should they go next? 474 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:45.599 They can visit us at Foundation Inc DOT Co. Uh. Foundation also 475 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.920 has a twitter handle which I believe is at Foundation Inc. I'll check on 476 00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:54.199 that later and double check. Our CEO, Ross, is also incredibly active 477 00:35:54.199 --> 00:36:00.360 on twitter and his twitter handle is the coolest cool which tells you they're what 478 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.280 you're getting into once you get him a follow. Um and we do share 479 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:08.440 a lot about every aspect of content marketing, both qualitative and quantitative. Um 480 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:12.880 and in my opinion we are doing some things that not any of the other 481 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.199 content marketing agencies are doing out there. So I definitely encourage people to check 482 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:23.440 it out. Thanks so much. Thank you. Center field delivers outcome based 483 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:30.760 marketing solutions and customer experiences that convert to many of the world's largest brands in 484 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:35.840 home services, insurance, e commerce, business to business and more simply stated, 485 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.000 if you'd like to get more customers out of your digital marketing, we 486 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.960 believe we're the best and we'd love to meet and show you what we can 487 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.119 do. CHECK US OUT AT CENTER FIELD DOT COM. Slash podcast, and 488 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:52.119 thanks for listening. You've been listening to the high eq marketer. Subscribe to 489 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:57.039 US anywhere you listen to podcasts and if you enjoyed this episode, police drop 490 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.800 US alike. Rate The show five stars. That's the I e Q thing 491 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:07.639 to do. Thanks for listening. MHM.