The Audience Growth Flywheel (2 of 2) with Dan Sanchez and Logan Lyles

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:08.630 Hey Friends, welcome into another episode of be to be growth. My name 2 00:00:08.630 --> 00:00:14.869 is Benjie Block, your host, and today is part two of our conversation 3 00:00:14.990 --> 00:00:21.500 around the audience growth fly wheel. So on Tuesday's episode we shared part one, 4 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:27.140 which is all taken from a live event recently held by Dan Sanchez and 5 00:00:27.460 --> 00:00:32.899 Logan Lyles. In that first part we covered content optimization, its original research, 6 00:00:32.979 --> 00:00:36.450 thought leadership, promise development. Go check that out if you have not 7 00:00:36.649 --> 00:00:42.170 listened to that yet. Today we're going to cover distribution and conversion optimization, 8 00:00:42.329 --> 00:00:46.090 the second part of that live event. So there's going to be talk about 9 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:53.880 Linkedin ads and sponsored podcasts and podcast websites, email list development. Great content 10 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:59.679 here for us to learn and Glean from. There's some Qa and so just 11 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.790 thought it would be really valuable for us to repurpose that that live event here 12 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:10.750 on be tob growth. So, without further ADO, here's the second half 13 00:01:10.909 --> 00:01:19.700 of that conversation all around the audience growth fly wheel. Enjoy. Let's jump 14 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:23.459 in. Distribution. Man, I get in debates about this one, but 15 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:26.700 if I when I'm doing distribution, I like to start with Linkedin adds. 16 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:34.049 I find they're cheaper, cheaper than facebook adds. Specifically not in the view 17 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:40.049 per like costper one thousand views, but in a way it is, because 18 00:01:40.090 --> 00:01:42.730 you can target the exact accounts you'd like to get in front of. And 19 00:01:42.849 --> 00:01:47.159 what I like to do is take the content that we're producing from the episodes, 20 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:52.359 turn them into micro videos and then target the exact accounts and the rolls 21 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.200 within those accounts. In linkedin adds you can actually upload the exact companies you'd 22 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.430 like to target, the three hundred, four hundred, five hundred business names 23 00:02:01.069 --> 00:02:04.670 that you'd like to be in front of. I know for sweetfish, I 24 00:02:04.750 --> 00:02:08.150 just go into crunch base pull a couple filters about which companies are kind of 25 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:12.550 like the right size and the right kind of company in the Tech Company like 26 00:02:12.629 --> 00:02:15.979 we pull a bunch of different filters. Maybe if they've raised some capital recently. 27 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:17.659 We pull a list of five hundred people and I could just take those 28 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:22.780 names uploading the Linkedin linkedin's like, Yep, who within those companies do you 29 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:24.500 want to run adds to? And I'm like, Yep, marketing directors, 30 00:02:24.620 --> 00:02:30.330 VP's of marketing, senior marketing managers. Right, it's the best way to 31 00:02:30.490 --> 00:02:34.689 get your content in front of the exact people you want to influence when nobody 32 00:02:34.689 --> 00:02:38.129 else, unlike facebook adds or Google ads or Youtube ads, you're going to 33 00:02:38.129 --> 00:02:40.169 be in front of a lot of people that are just it's not going to 34 00:02:40.210 --> 00:02:44.479 be relevant for you right, which is a problem of the Internet we run 35 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:46.840 into all the time. We're always being we're always seeing ads that just don't 36 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:52.560 really apply to us. On linkedin you can kind of slow down the I 37 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:59.270 don't know what is bombomb call it the digital pollution. I was literally typing 38 00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.789 about the I saw the trailer for their documentary. Shout out to Ethan. 39 00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:07.270 I think Ethan Butt is on on the call today, even if you got 40 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:13.300 a link to the trailer you guys for. I believe it's called dear first 41 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:17.780 name, and it's addressing addressing the problem of digital pollution and in the trailer 42 00:03:17.939 --> 00:03:23.340 talking about attention. Is that a premium now? So anyway, segue. 43 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:28.050 But yeah, go for it in the best way to get attention as by 44 00:03:28.129 --> 00:03:30.330 getting the right content front of the right people. And we know it's the 45 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:34.490 right content because we've asked so many of them, dozens of them, about 46 00:03:34.530 --> 00:03:37.009 what they're thinking about, what their obstacles are, what their wins are, 47 00:03:37.289 --> 00:03:40.330 what they're how their bosses, evaluating their success, so we know exactly what's 48 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:44.960 in their minds and we can develop thought, leadership and points of view and 49 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.680 rapid in such a way that it becomes much more attractive. We'd put we 50 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:53.199 create full episodes of them and split those episodes down to a little tiny micro 51 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.909 videos. The thirty two to three minute videos, when they're well captioned and 52 00:03:59.949 --> 00:04:02.150 have good titles, are the best way to get in front of the audience. 53 00:04:02.469 --> 00:04:05.430 You're actually giving them the answers right there. You're not calling them to 54 00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:10.180 click over and to go through some gated content. No, you're just giving 55 00:04:10.219 --> 00:04:13.379 it to them in full, right there in the feed where they're spending their 56 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:15.339 time. A lot of them are on Linkedin. You Do, I still 57 00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:17.980 like to have a CTA, though, one in the video and then boom, 58 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:21.899 right underneath the video, of course, just listen to the full episode. 59 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.089 They're getting a little view here, a little the best chunk of the 60 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:30.129 episode, the best highlight, but they want more. I like to lead 61 00:04:30.129 --> 00:04:32.290 them to the full episode and we could talk about where they go and what 62 00:04:32.370 --> 00:04:35.529 they do after they click through. But if there's still some more AD budget 63 00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:40.720 to go, I do like to retarget with facebook and instagram because it is 64 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.079 cheaper there. The problem is you can't usually control to the same degree who 65 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:47.079 your ads are in front of. But if you're only using it for retargeting, 66 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:53.230 you can save some money and get more ad impressions with more creative by 67 00:04:53.310 --> 00:04:57.990 retargeting with facebook and Instagram, because we know either on those platforms to yeah, 68 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:00.189 we need a name for this. It's like your version of the Texas 69 00:05:00.269 --> 00:05:04.949 to step Dan lead with Linkedin adds and then we'll talk about this more in 70 00:05:05.029 --> 00:05:10.899 the conversion optimization, but you kind of alluded to it there. Don't send 71 00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:14.899 people with the ads you're running for your show to apple. Send them to 72 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:19.699 a website the dedicated for the show because of this second step that you can 73 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:28.050 do to stay in front of them with with lower cost ads. So retargeting, 74 00:05:28.089 --> 00:05:30.329 Linkedin, add traffic, more microvit same content, just more of it. 75 00:05:30.449 --> 00:05:32.930 Of course you're cycling through is, you're doing more episode, you're creating 76 00:05:32.970 --> 00:05:36.639 more micro videos, call the action to listen to the full episode and, 77 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:42.360 lastly, sponsoring other podcasts, because you want to fish where the fish are, 78 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.480 and so it's a lot easier to get more podcast subscribers if you're sub 79 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.509 if you're advertising or sponsoring shows, were podcast listeners are, because not everybody 80 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:54.990 listens to podcast right. I'll I'm the majority of people do these days, 81 00:05:55.149 --> 00:06:00.029 but not everybody does. So we like to use a stool tool called spark 82 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:04.779 Toro where you can actually plug in like here I put in a peep people 83 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:09.939 that talk about bedb marketing, and then I filtered it by podcast and it 84 00:06:09.980 --> 00:06:13.819 gave me a list of podcasts that I could go and just approach the host. 85 00:06:14.259 --> 00:06:16.819 Their emails are usually fairly available to just shoot him an email and be 86 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:19.769 like hey, I'd love to sponsor some episodes. How much to sponsor your 87 00:06:19.889 --> 00:06:24.170 next for right, and then just working out with them. You'd find. 88 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:27.209 I find that it's fairly under priced for the amount of downloads they're getting per 89 00:06:27.290 --> 00:06:31.769 episode, especially the smaller podcasts that aren't like super popular. There's some gold 90 00:06:31.769 --> 00:06:35.879 nuggets down in the bottom where you can actually be getting under priced attention by 91 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:41.680 sponsoring their podcast and they're usually thrilled and hardly ever get request to actually sponsor 92 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.120 their content if they're not a big show. So you can get some great 93 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.550 deals. It does take some manual work of reaching out, recording some content 94 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:51.550 to hand over to them or having a host read ad to advertise your show. 95 00:06:53.189 --> 00:06:57.870 But it's a very, really effective way and usually get under priced attention 96 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:03.259 this way. Absolutely you know it's targeted right because of the genre or the 97 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:08.100 category of the show. But, as Dan said, you you don't know 98 00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:11.019 when you're running linked it ads whether these people, you know, listen to 99 00:07:11.139 --> 00:07:15.300 many shows, whether they're an active podcast listener. Here there's a little bit 100 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:17.009 of friction right because they've got to go to the show notes and click it 101 00:07:17.050 --> 00:07:20.649 or they've got us search your your name. But if it's a host read 102 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:25.089 ad, I mean one, they're already listening to podcast. So you've narrowed 103 00:07:25.129 --> 00:07:29.290 your field even more. And most people who listen to shows are actively like 104 00:07:29.610 --> 00:07:31.360 we go through cycles right, like I'm kind of sick of the show for 105 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.839 a while, it's getting stale, they don't have a compelling premise and you're 106 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:39.800 looking for that next show that you want to subscribe to. If you hear 107 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.519 a show mentioned on another show, I would just encourage you, as you 108 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.949 work out the deals with the other shows, have the host just say hey, 109 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:48.790 just just search the name of the show. You're in apple podcast right 110 00:07:48.829 --> 00:07:53.829 now or you're in spotify right now. So there's more friction, but there's 111 00:07:53.829 --> 00:07:59.379 also less and you're targeting the right people. Plus, sparked Touro is really 112 00:07:59.459 --> 00:08:03.779 cool. You can search based on what people are talking about, the hashtags 113 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:07.019 they follow, as well as what people use in their profile. So there's 114 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:13.610 a few different ways to slice indise your filters there. And then the other 115 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.250 thing. Dan Kind of touched on this. You most podcasts are going to 116 00:08:16.370 --> 00:08:20.649 under price their ad inventory, quote unquote, and they're also going to say 117 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.370 yes more often, because if you have a show, you know what do 118 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:26.089 you get? You get a lot of guest pitches. What do you not 119 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:28.600 get as often someone reaching out and saying, Hey, I want to give 120 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.840 you money for your show, right, and so people tend to respond. 121 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.120 Plus, you build a relationship with the host, which is valuable in it 122 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.990 of itself. And if you're wondering who to reach out to, they're probably 123 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:43.429 going to tell you with one of the five magic questions. Right, what 124 00:08:43.549 --> 00:08:48.990 publication or influencer is the most influential to your work right now? It's probably 125 00:08:48.029 --> 00:08:52.029 a good place to start. See if that influencer will let you sponsor there, 126 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:54.820 their show or even their social content. If that's if they don't have 127 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:58.899 like a podcast or something, your customers will just start giving you names of 128 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:05.580 people to go after. So distributions a sort of short section because it's kind 129 00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:09.129 of short and simple. Use Linkedin retarget with facebook. Have some extra time 130 00:09:09.169 --> 00:09:15.450 or money, SPONSORSO podcast. That's the best way to grow an audience and 131 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:24.039 actually get distribution for your content. Any questions in the feed Logan? You 132 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.840 know we've got. We've got one here. Can you share a little more? 133 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.559 WHAT IS SPARK TORO? Is this a good place also to find where 134 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.590 to guess on other shows? So let me hit the start answering. So 135 00:09:37.669 --> 00:09:41.470 we time this. We're a little bit more about sparked Toro. So this 136 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:45.629 is a tool by Rand Fishkin. It's been around for a bit and I 137 00:09:45.710 --> 00:09:52.269 would say that it continues to get better with each evolution. Beyond just finding 138 00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:58.139 podcasts in a category that are ranked based on categories like be marketing or healthcare 139 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.259 or it, it gives you press accounts, it gives you a highly so 140 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:09.809 highly followed social accounts, highly visited websites and youtube channels. I forget if 141 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.169 I said that are already, but it is beyond podcasting. It's it's helping 142 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:18.330 you find where is the attention in my niche already right, and when you 143 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:22.360 pair that with, as Dan said, one of your five magic questions, 144 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.639 you've got a really great targeted shortlist of partnerships, ads to go place, 145 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.600 places to find where you want, where you want to focus there. It 146 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.909 is also a good place to find places to guests. So you know there 147 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.470 are some some companies you can hire to do that for you. One of 148 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:46.549 our partners speak on podcasts. Is just speak on podcasts plural with an s 149 00:10:46.710 --> 00:10:52.820 on the endcom they've got a great service for helping you get placed on other 150 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:56.340 shows. But that is another way. The reason we like ads is it's 151 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:58.659 a little bit easier to get the yeses and it's less time investment from from 152 00:10:58.659 --> 00:11:01.460 your team. But if you are able to do that one to punch, 153 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:05.330 it's going to be really effective. Again, did I miss anything else? 154 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.049 On Spark Toro for context, I'd say the only other thing to keep in 155 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:11.250 mind is, and it's kind of hard to see on this slide, but 156 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:15.210 there's a percentage of audience for each show and I don't know exactly how they 157 00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:18.720 know this and it's probably a rough estimate, but even here. I put 158 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.519 in beat people who were talk about be to be marketing and it has the 159 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120 growth show. Thirty six percent of people who talk about be to be marketing 160 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.600 are listening to the growth show. Now it's interesting here is people talking about 161 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:33.629 be to be marketing. Like the one obvious podcast that should be here that's 162 00:11:33.669 --> 00:11:41.149 not here is the like is this stated Dimandain, but it doesn't show up 163 00:11:41.149 --> 00:11:43.870 at all. So I'm like, it's not perfect, but it's pretty good. 164 00:11:43.909 --> 00:11:46.139 It's probably the best I've seen for identifying like who's listening to what? 165 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:50.059 I thought you were going to give a shameless plug for be to be growth. 166 00:11:50.820 --> 00:11:52.740 We make the list to Y'all need. We're like a top word, 167 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:56.100 top sixty five on that list, and he's probably like twenty six at the 168 00:11:56.179 --> 00:12:01.379 list right now. Yeah, awesome. All right, let's move on to 169 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:05.690 the next one. So we've got another question from Philip. What have you 170 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:11.330 seen regarding expectations of Kpis on Linkedin campaigns? Dan, do you want to 171 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:16.639 speak to this? Sorry, with Kpis? Yeah, what to what to 172 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:24.399 expect as far as cost per acquisition, those sorts of metrics on a paid 173 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.840 campaign on Linkedin? Absolutely, I'm I'm almost always measuring. I'm not measuring 174 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:35.509 per acquisition, on measuring based on consumption playthrough rates. I want people to 175 00:12:35.590 --> 00:12:39.029 actually consume the content. I'm on optimizing and killing content that doesn't get the 176 00:12:39.070 --> 00:12:43.269 playthrough rates. Generally I find when the play through rates go through, people 177 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:50.100 are clicking through, but it got shit wanges pretty wildly, though. Follow 178 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.139 up with me, book some time and then we can look at it together. 179 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:58.419 Yeah, you make a good point. Fill up about saying, okay, 180 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:03.289 click through rate expectations were set with you about five percent. I think 181 00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:05.570 we're going to be doing more and more testing as we're running this fly wheel 182 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:09.129 for customers and have more to be able to speak to their Dan kind of 183 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.240 alluded to something else you can do as far as and that x is a 184 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.360 little bit of a side Bar, but a lot of people don't realize that 185 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.080 you can look at more than just your streams or downloads when it comes to 186 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:26.080 your podcast analytics. Depending on whether you use soundered FM or another hook platform. 187 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.870 They met calm streams or downloads, but one thing to look at is 188 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.190 the playthrough rate. So if you go to podcasts CONNECTCOM, go to your 189 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:37.830 show in Apple podcast, it will actually rely show you. Okay, on 190 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.419 average this episode people lasted for sixty percent of the episode. So if you're 191 00:13:41.419 --> 00:13:48.139 running a lot of ads to to an episode and that episode has a very 192 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:52.019 low playthrough rate, then you want to adjust your strategy a little bit. 193 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:54.460 Maybe it just your your content planning for the next few episodes as well. 194 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:58.090 So you can get a lot from not only looking at the click through rate 195 00:13:58.169 --> 00:14:05.450 on Linkedin, but then also the playthrough right of the episodes. fantastics for 196 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:11.240 any more questions in a section. That was it. We got those two, 197 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.720 so we can sun of the final one. It's do it the fun 198 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:20.600 one, and this is where the debate starts. Conversion optimization. It's my 199 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.470 recommendation that we everybody builds their own separate podcast website, separate from the main 200 00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:30.830 what I'm calling a sales website. So you can see here I have like 201 00:14:30.909 --> 00:14:35.029 a snapshot of Gongs Page and I have a snapshot of wireds page. It's 202 00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:39.779 a very different experience from one to the other. Gong simple, clean. 203 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:43.659 What do you see? INFOT sized here? Book a Demo, see it 204 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:48.059 in action, unlock reality. Fuel your revenue engine. It's selling the product, 205 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:52.970 as it freaking should right it's a sales page. It's supposed to generate 206 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:56.490 leads, good leads, leads that are well informed, leads that are clear. 207 00:14:56.929 --> 00:15:00.809 The pricing page needs to be prominent. People care about the company. 208 00:15:00.929 --> 00:15:05.529 Of course there's some resources of product, there's customers, like everything is, 209 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:09.840 sales site should have. But I don't know about you. I've been hearing 210 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.440 about people talk about being a media company, like your marketing should be like 211 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.720 a media company for over a decade now, but if you look at a 212 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:22.470 we media's sites homepage, it's a very different experience. Content, all kinds 213 00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:28.669 of content, most recent top picks, big, highlighted, easy to click 214 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:35.299 on, call the action, subscribe categories across the top. It's optimizing for 215 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:41.659 consumption and subscription, which is why I think it's worth building a separate website 216 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:46.980 for your podcast and, in the long term, maybe making it a little 217 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:48.779 bit bigger than a podcast. Maybe you have your blog content there too, 218 00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:56.129 maybe you have your infographics there and your videos there. Essentially build a whole 219 00:15:56.250 --> 00:15:58.850 media site, and there's some ways to speed it up and make it easier 220 00:15:58.929 --> 00:16:03.129 that I could talk about at the end. But you can optimize it for 221 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:07.399 audience growth by making your content more discoverable and making it a mixed media outlet. 222 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.919 You can essentially optimize it it in a way that you can't optimize the 223 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.879 sales site, which is going to be optimized for sales. A media site 224 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.240 can be optimized for audience. The call to actions can be different. The 225 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.629 whole approach to the site's going to be different, and that's why I think 226 00:16:21.669 --> 00:16:27.509 it's worth building a whole separate website just for your podcast if you want to 227 00:16:27.509 --> 00:16:32.940 learn more about how to build a better content strategy by having a different website. 228 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:36.019 Actually built the whole deck. You can just quickly click through it. 229 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:41.539 If you go to sweet fish mediacom slash site to you can see my my 230 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:45.299 slide deck, which goes at length at this because it's not easy, right. 231 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:49.289 It's more resources. It's a separate site to maintain, more wordpress or 232 00:16:49.889 --> 00:16:53.009 another site at least. You have to style and deal with and you don't 233 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:56.610 know. Sometimes brand teams or tech teams don't want to have to deal with 234 00:16:56.649 --> 00:16:59.090 the separate site. I know, I get it, but this is a 235 00:16:59.169 --> 00:17:02.840 compelling case for why a second site. It also gives you a place to 236 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.000 send all that ad traffic. It makes it a lot easier to convert to 237 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:07.799 the right thing. And you're like, well, but I maybe I want 238 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.079 them to convert to a demo. But let's be honest, they're not going 239 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.630 to convert to a demo yet, but they might subscribe to your podcast right, 240 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:19.109 and we do want them to subscribe either by clicking through to their podcast 241 00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:26.349 player of choice, itunes, Google, spotify. But we also want to 242 00:17:26.349 --> 00:17:32.940 optimize for emails development, because with emails development we're actually getting to true owned 243 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:34.980 media. Actually, have thought a lot about owned media and I find it 244 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.380 there's three different love les of owned media and if had to give them names, 245 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:44.099 because I've felt like there's a lot of people talking about it, I've 246 00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:48.089 I call them semi owned media, Co owned media and fully owned media. 247 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:52.890 Some of the differences are like social media, Linkedin, twitter, I call 248 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.130 them semi owned because you don't own the direct relationship with them. You can't 249 00:17:56.130 --> 00:18:00.799 take your twitter followers and pull them into linkedin. You can't take your linkedin 250 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.880 followers and pull them into youtube. Right. They're owned by the platform, 251 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.400 but it's not paid medias. You don't have to pay to be in from 252 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.200 it's not earned media. I don't have to ask someone else's permission to get 253 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.349 in front of them. But there is an algorithm in between us and another 254 00:18:12.430 --> 00:18:18.109 entity called Linkedin or twitter. There's also co owned media, right. It's 255 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:22.829 what I'm calling essentially youtube and and podcast specifically. Right, there's not an 256 00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:27.220 algorithm in between you and your fan base, but there is this entity called 257 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:33.259 apple or spotify, and then fully owned media, where there's no algorithm in 258 00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:36.579 between you and there's not a platform. You can literally take your email list 259 00:18:36.619 --> 00:18:41.569 from hub spot upload it to active campaign or mail chimp or something else. 260 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:47.289 You can take it with you. It's not tech platform dependent and when you're 261 00:18:47.329 --> 00:18:51.009 developing an audience it's good to have a mix of these kinds of mediums acrossed 262 00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:53.490 semi owned, Co owned and fully owned. The podcast is going to be 263 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:56.960 your co owned but you want to create a base of a fully owned medium 264 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.880 and I find email to be the best way to do that, especially when 265 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:07.200 building a podcast audience. So what does that look like? I find see 266 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.029 if this next led. Yeah, with email list development. You can build 267 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:15.430 you can you essentially use your original content to give you content for your email, 268 00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.789 because even though you're asking those five magic questions for your own Sake, 269 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:23.269 so that you can develop better content generally people's peers. Want to hear the 270 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:26.900 answers to that too. As a marketer, I want to know what other 271 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:29.779 marketers are running into as an obstacle. I would know what their biggest ones 272 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:33.339 are. I want to know what other marketers are being held accountable to by 273 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:37.970 their boss. That's interesting content, but you don't have to publish it with 274 00:19:38.009 --> 00:19:41.049 an episode. You can hold it back, put it in a maybe a 275 00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:47.250 text format and deliver it as an email list at content and then it becomes 276 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:49.809 kind of cyclical. In fact. Logan, can you explain a little bit 277 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:53.680 how the email list in the podcast work together? That was something that was 278 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.000 kind of your brain child and it was. I thought it was brilliant as 279 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.400 soon as you said it. Well, if it was brilliant, it's because 280 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:04.440 I stole it from somewhere else. So I saw this with some youtube channels 281 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:08.869 and Youtube content creators. That said, you know, kind of cut off 282 00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:11.470 the end of an interview and say hey, if you want this, sign 283 00:20:11.509 --> 00:20:17.150 up for the the you know membership that we have to our our content behind 284 00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:21.900 our pay wall right or hey, this is only available to patreon subscribers, 285 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:26.859 not just youtube subscribers, or I think you can have members on youtube channels 286 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.740 now as well. Anyway. Anyhow, I thought let's translate that to podcasts, 287 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:33.700 right. And so, Hey, we've got the five magic questions. 288 00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:37.650 You can name them your fast five or something more creative that aligns with the 289 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.410 premise and the themes of your show. But you could wrap it up somehow 290 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:45.730 like this, like hey, Dan, this was fantastic. Thanks for talking 291 00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:48.130 about the audience growth fly wheel on BB growth today. You and I are 292 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:52.519 going to hang on. I'm going to ask you five of our burning questions 293 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.400 in one of them. I'm really excited to hear your answer to that. 294 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.000 DA, right, for everybody listening, this wraps up the podcast episode. 295 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:03.869 But if you are an email subscriber of BB growth, you're going to get 296 00:21:03.990 --> 00:21:10.390 an email with these five questions and every time we ask them, of a 297 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:15.029 guest post interview. And so what you're doing is teeing up some exclusive content. 298 00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:18.740 You're giving people a reason to give you their email address, not just 299 00:21:18.019 --> 00:21:22.019 say hey, give us a five star rating, leave us a root review 300 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.619 on Apple podcast, subscribe, share with a friend, oh and sign up 301 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:30.339 via email with no value. Right. Oh, we're going to email you 302 00:21:30.339 --> 00:21:33.690 every time in episode goes live, but you're giving them a reason to sign 303 00:21:33.690 --> 00:21:38.890 up via email and then in your email campaigns that nurture people that are subscribed 304 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:42.250 the email to the show, you're giving them the five and you say hey, 305 00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:45.650 you want to listen to the whole episode. And so it becomes this 306 00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.240 little mini fly wheel within the fly wheel where the podcast drives email and email 307 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:55.920 drives the podcast even more, and round and round it goes podcast to email, 308 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:02.829 back to podcast, and you're creating a mixed owned media mix right where 309 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:07.789 you can have a more sustainable owned media audience that way. And it all 310 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:11.750 comes back down to that original research, because not only does it drive your 311 00:22:11.950 --> 00:22:17.140 your weekly or however often your podcast getting published email, but it also can 312 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:22.619 build more substantial content like a quarterly report. Right. You can take all 313 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.500 their answers and publish them in one source and actually add a little bit of 314 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:30.890 insight to it, a little bit of narrative and understanding as you're interpreting it, 315 00:22:30.329 --> 00:22:33.250 and that becomes a substantial piece that you can also give away to your 316 00:22:33.289 --> 00:22:37.650 email subscribers. In fact, I and I know there's a big push against 317 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:41.130 gated content, so you can choose whether to gate this or not, but 318 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:44.210 I would get it so that the email subscribers get this. Of course they 319 00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:47.440 can always unsubscribe and all that kind of stuff. So I know there's a 320 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.079 debate in the community. You can choose whether you get this or not. 321 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.960 I would get it as a way to get more people in the email and 322 00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:00.430 consuming the information there. And the cool thing is we talked about this being 323 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:06.910 a fly wheel. So the more more original research you do, the better 324 00:23:06.990 --> 00:23:10.470 the thought leadership gets, the tighter the premise can get, the e the 325 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:15.420 more conversions you're going to get on that distribution, the tighter you can make 326 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:19.619 your own media, and round and round it goes. The more the larger 327 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.059 the audience at the end, right, the larger the audience means the more 328 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:26.369 original research it can do. Maybe you start introducing some surveys. When you're 329 00:23:26.369 --> 00:23:30.609 a lat audience gets larger and means you can tighten up your thought leadership development, 330 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:36.210 which means you can probably refine your premise and your microvideos get better and 331 00:23:36.289 --> 00:23:40.009 better, and this thing spins round and round the more you do it. 332 00:23:41.089 --> 00:23:45.079 So that is the audience growth fly wheel and I want to make sure we 333 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.480 wrap up with questions on this last section, but of certainly questions from the 334 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:53.240 whole process and how it might work together in order to grow your podcast. 335 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:57.829 Awesome. Let's dive in. We've got the most questions here on the content 336 00:23:59.109 --> 00:24:03.670 conversion, excuse me, conversion optimization section. So the first question ones the 337 00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:10.619 the first question from Anna. What do you think of podcast host website Combo 338 00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:17.700 providers like captivate? I find that podcast host websites are lacking. They're just 339 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:21.140 not quite good enough. is even the ones that are like prettier, from 340 00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:23.569 like captivate sounders, looks pretty good. I just don't find that they have 341 00:24:23.730 --> 00:24:27.730 enough of what I would want on it. Like you can't add an about 342 00:24:27.809 --> 00:24:30.809 page that kind of introduces the the show, the premise of the show, 343 00:24:32.170 --> 00:24:33.930 or introduces, like here's the host of the show with like a little bio. 344 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.720 I find that those little things actually make the website worthwhile. And you 345 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.519 can't add like call the actions on it right. You can't add a subscribe 346 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:47.599 by email only only maybe links to like apple and spotify, which is good, 347 00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:48.960 but I think it needs to be a little bit more. And I 348 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.150 know there's great solutions out there like pod page, that make it easy. 349 00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:56.269 You literally just putting your rss feed and Bam, it makes a whole website. 350 00:24:56.269 --> 00:24:59.829 Now, the way, site doesn't look that great without quite a bit 351 00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:02.589 of like fine tuning and maybe a little bit of CSS, but it's a 352 00:25:02.589 --> 00:25:07.579 lot easier than building all wordpress site for it. M Yeah, one tool 353 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:11.819 we've started to use for some customers we'd recommend as called pod page. So 354 00:25:11.859 --> 00:25:18.019 I would check that out. PODPA GECOM, I think that's their website anyway. 355 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.890 That you don't want to be good fun. Yeah, better, better 356 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:25.210 than the host, you know, kind of websites that they have as kind 357 00:25:25.210 --> 00:25:30.289 of a placeholder. All right, the next one, let's see, this 358 00:25:30.490 --> 00:25:33.809 comes from your boy can Dan. So we started the conversation about what you 359 00:25:33.890 --> 00:25:37.160 would do if you have a thousand reading friends. One of those things I'm 360 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.720 assuming most people would want is to get them to buy the product eventually. 361 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.279 Right. That being said, where do you place the products? If your 362 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:52.190 podcast site is optimized for can for consumption optimization, where do you throw the 363 00:25:52.230 --> 00:25:57.269 right hooks? Basically, great that honestly. I think you should make it 364 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:02.269 some of your content. I'm I'm coming. I'm in the the process of 365 00:26:02.309 --> 00:26:07.579 building a whole podcast around audience growth, launching soon and some of the content 366 00:26:07.660 --> 00:26:11.819 will be about audience growth, will be about podcasting, which will lead to 367 00:26:11.859 --> 00:26:15.819 sweet fish, and I'll be pointing back to sweet fish with that content. 368 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:21.049 So some of your thought leadership content will directly correlate to what you do. 369 00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:25.650 But in addition to that, I think you should have advertisements in your own 370 00:26:25.769 --> 00:26:30.769 owned media directly for your product. Almost think about it like if you if 371 00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:33.559 almost think about it like if you could, if you could, acquire a 372 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.799 media company that your audience already loves just so you could put inserts on like 373 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.400 insert ads on it. But instead of acquiring it, you're just building it 374 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:48.829 yourself. You're building the media outlet that your customer wants and then you can 375 00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:51.950 advertise in it. So stick some ads into that podcast site, put some 376 00:26:51.990 --> 00:26:56.269 audio ads into those podcast episodes and of course you get to control the content 377 00:26:56.390 --> 00:27:00.109 directly, but it's going to be covering the topics that your customer cares about 378 00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:03.660 most. Like I talked yesterday about like why doesn't? Why doesn't Wallgreens just 379 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:08.059 buy webmd? They could have just built their own to write and then just 380 00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:14.539 strategically put advertisements for different wallings, things going on into the content itself. 381 00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:18.289 And it would have been good instead of having to pay webmd for it as 382 00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:26.809 a great example. All right, let's see. Let's see. Okay. 383 00:27:26.890 --> 00:27:30.200 Do you send people from the media site to the company site or is it 384 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.359 purely an educational and authority play? So I think this is similar to the 385 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:38.400 last question. Right. Where are the right hooks? You absolutely can in 386 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:44.200 the benefit here of having the media site and the sales website for your company, 387 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.589 which is just your company's website, right, is you're not mixing the 388 00:27:47.710 --> 00:27:52.509 two. For a while we tried this. We tried to make sweetfish Mediacom 389 00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:56.109 both a media site and a site that talked about our service. And guess 390 00:27:56.150 --> 00:27:59.819 what, I was fielding sales calls at that point. People came in confused. 391 00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:03.180 People didn't know how to book a sales called. They didn't know what 392 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:07.420 we did versus what we didn't do, and it became confusing. Right. 393 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:11.890 And so you do want to treat it just like Dan said. If there's 394 00:28:11.890 --> 00:28:17.730 another media outlet where you would run ads for your product, do it the 395 00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:21.529 same way, right. And so the site itself, the content itself, 396 00:28:21.569 --> 00:28:25.690 is a pure authority pet play, but you can have those ads on the 397 00:28:25.769 --> 00:28:30.359 site and in the podcast. Just don't make the content the right hook. 398 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.720 Don't make the content trying to get people over to your main site. Make 399 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.759 it very clear that, like, Hey, this is this is what we're 400 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.670 sharing right, but here's where we can do it for you, right in 401 00:28:41.829 --> 00:28:45.750 this entire workshop where we run this audience growth fly wheel for customers. Dan's 402 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:48.869 going to, you know, mention it, but it has not been. 403 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:52.029 This is how you work with sweetish. This is how you do it yourself, 404 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.460 and so that distinction between where is the ad and where is the content, 405 00:28:56.579 --> 00:29:00.460 I think keeping that clear is really important. So that's that's a good 406 00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:06.339 question. All right. Where do we get signed up for the BB growth 407 00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:11.369 email? Unfortunately, we're we're re redeveloping be tob growth right now and so 408 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:17.970 we're rolling this out for for BB growth soon. So atch stay tuned on 409 00:29:18.089 --> 00:29:22.650 that one. So sorry, non answer answer. All Right, we've got 410 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.079 let's check out this one question from Josh to sweetfish. have access to our 411 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.640 spotify and apple logins? I'd love to see our click through rates and more 412 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:41.150 analytics. Yes, we do have spotify has changed a little bit, but 413 00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:48.950 apple and sounder for sure, and looking at those analytics on podcast connect applecom. 414 00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:53.819 If you're a sweetfish customer, your producer can get access there to give 415 00:29:53.859 --> 00:30:02.259 you that information on those playthrough rates we were talking about earlier. All right, 416 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:04.420 it seems like there's a lot of different people involved in this fly wheel. 417 00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:07.809 So this is our last question on conversion optimization. Then we'll open it 418 00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:11.529 up. If anybody has any questions they want to ask Dan live, we 419 00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:15.890 can invite you up on screen during the last five minutes here. All right, 420 00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:18.450 it seems like there's a lot of different people involved in the flywheel. 421 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:22.039 At the very least a content person and the demands in person. How are 422 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.160 you building these teams, Dan? You've been thinking about this as you're building 423 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.720 the service for are done for you audience growth service as sweetfish. What are 424 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.559 the roles? How do you how do you envision this working? If someone's 425 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:38.029 building an internally, it's sweetfish. We have two different roles for this. 426 00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:41.230 We have someone who runs paid media, which I think you're calling the demandsions 427 00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:47.390 person, and then again someone who's not necessarily the content person, but we're 428 00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:52.180 condon the audience growth specialist, someone who's looking at the answers the person gives 429 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:57.579 and the magic five questions who is thinking through the thought leadership, how do 430 00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:00.059 we package our points of view on it? They don't necessarily have to be 431 00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:03.930 the subject matter experts, though, since they're working with our customers. They're 432 00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:07.210 just helping them package their own thought leadership. And then they're working on the 433 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.170 like the owned medias, owned media sites. So not only they kind of 434 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:17.009 thinking through thought leadership, but they're also thinking through the creative for the ads 435 00:31:17.089 --> 00:31:19.759 and the owned the owned media property, so that they can kind of see 436 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.160 the life cycle through. It's a very generalist role. There's a lot of 437 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.799 little skill sets needed, but generally I do find that there's some massive benefits 438 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.039 for someone who's really good at just running media all the time through something like 439 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.390 Linkedin and facebooks and those kind of platforms change a lot. If you're not 440 00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:37.869 in them a lot, then it's really slow in order to run the ADS 441 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:42.390 and get the optimal bids for your content out there. So that person is 442 00:31:42.509 --> 00:31:48.900 separate, but the person who's thinking through the thinking about what creative and what 443 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:53.380 microvideos depict and what how to title them and how that traffic is running through 444 00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:59.259 the the site and can we're converting is one person and is generally a marketing 445 00:31:59.299 --> 00:32:02.450 journalist. What's the most important insight you focus on when it comes to metrics? 446 00:32:02.529 --> 00:32:07.650 Play through subscribers, comments, interactions. Then you have a good framework 447 00:32:07.690 --> 00:32:10.890 for this. We turned it into a blog post. Do you want to 448 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:14.690 speak to this little bit? podcasting as a whole, what are some of 449 00:32:14.730 --> 00:32:19.880 the key metrics you you look at? I look at consumption. That's that's 450 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.000 the game. The more people you can get consuming your content, the more 451 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.240 they're going to be thinking about you. So a lot of people think about 452 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.670 it in terms of like hard subscriptions, but a subscriber isn't that good that 453 00:32:30.789 --> 00:32:34.750 they churn right. So, like you could be measuring on new subscribers gain 454 00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:37.589 this month, but how long do they stay subscribed? Right, if you're 455 00:32:37.589 --> 00:32:40.869 looking at it, for purely from an email perspective. So what I'm looking 456 00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:47.059 at us, especially for podcasting, is is my my average amount of downloads 457 00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:51.099 going up, like especially, like over a seven day period, that the 458 00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:55.019 last episode, is each episode going up in downloads, or at least on 459 00:32:55.180 --> 00:33:01.250 average going up. And then am I getting more downloads for a podcast each 460 00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:05.009 month? Because your back catalog starts to go to work for you. You 461 00:33:05.369 --> 00:33:08.009 might have one micro video that's advertising a new episode and they go and download 462 00:33:08.049 --> 00:33:12.210 that. What then they start going back to week months before and down binge 463 00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:15.759 listening to all of them. That kind of counts in my book as like 464 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.079 like success. So I want to optimize for as much consumption as possible. 465 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:25.359 The email, getting email subscribers is really only a way to get more consumption. 466 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.630 But I'm not optimizing for the email because, let's be honestly, I 467 00:33:29.710 --> 00:33:31.309 wanted your email, I could go get it. I can just go to 468 00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:35.630 your website kind of figure out. Is it first, first thought that last, 469 00:33:35.950 --> 00:33:37.269 or is it first, initial, dot last? I'm going to figure 470 00:33:37.269 --> 00:33:40.029 out your email like I don't need it. But I want you to consume 471 00:33:40.069 --> 00:33:45.059 more content, because the more consonantent and the better I get it that content 472 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:46.940 and the more I can get you to consume it, because not only is 473 00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:51.140 it helpful to you, but you actually enjoy listening to it. That's a 474 00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:55.809 freaking win, dude, that that is such an important call out that we're 475 00:33:55.849 --> 00:34:01.089 talking about emails so that you own it's more owned media and it's not built 476 00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:06.329 on exclusively rented land. But that's not the point. To just get them 477 00:34:06.369 --> 00:34:09.079 there again where you where you talked about it. It's to create those raving 478 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:13.000 fans. So it's you've got to get them there and then you've got to 479 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.679 keep them there. Right. It's not enough to just gain the attention, 480 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.320 you've got to hold it. I miss typed it in the in the chat, 481 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:22.960 but it's not about who comes, it's about who stays, not how 482 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.349 stays. So I'm glad I gave Becker a good laugh on that one. 483 00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:32.630 All right, Dan, what would you recommend for folks as far as next 484 00:34:32.750 --> 00:34:36.389 APPs? What resources would you point them to as we wrapped out? And 485 00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:39.500 last couple. So I know this is a lot of content. Obviously there's 486 00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:42.900 like a lot of points and I had three points for every one of these 487 00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:46.380 points. So what I'd like to do is sit down and figure out how 488 00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:50.380 to structure it for your company. Like I want to do a free thirty 489 00:34:50.420 --> 00:34:52.329 minute consultations with anybody who wants to sit down with me and figure out, 490 00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:55.050 like, Oh, damn, this is our podcast, this is our this 491 00:34:55.130 --> 00:35:00.289 is what we have gone on our website. What would you do? So 492 00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:05.130 over the next month I'm doing these these thirty minute consultations and I want to 493 00:35:05.170 --> 00:35:07.599 be transparent. We do have a product around audience growth. But it's my 494 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:13.039 goal to essentially publish as much information to make it as easy for you and 495 00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.599 your team to actually do this, with or without sweet fish, that we 496 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.480 are building and launching a product around this right now, and I could give 497 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.510 you more information about that if you want to have help with this system. 498 00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:27.309 But ultimately I want to be as helpful to you as possible by giving you 499 00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:30.909 the information and even going in and looking at your stuff and then spending some 500 00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:32.389 time with you to show you how I would do it, and then you 501 00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:37.860 can hopefully get some value out of that pass it to your team in order 502 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:40.420 to implement all or just pieces of what we talked about today. So you 503 00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:47.539 can go to its sweet fi do sh Dan. You know it's kind of 504 00:35:47.619 --> 00:35:53.130 my cute little domain hack to get a short time. That was good. 505 00:35:53.250 --> 00:35:58.650 That was good. All right. One last question real quick. which part 506 00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:02.489 of the flywheel do you see podcasters will naturally struggle with the most. All 507 00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:07.679 answer this real quick and then I want to hear if you differ from me. 508 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.159 Don I actually think it's the first piece. I think it's the content 509 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.480 optimization. I think you know, if you you probably already have a paid 510 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.949 digital team. You probably have a web team. The other pieces you can 511 00:36:20.070 --> 00:36:22.989 do right, but if you're building this rocket ship and you're not putting good 512 00:36:23.030 --> 00:36:27.110 fuel in it, it's not going to go anywhere, and so I think 513 00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:31.150 that's probably the part that people struggle with the most. Would you agree to 514 00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:37.099 absolutely? Yeah, all right. Well, that's it. All right. 515 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:39.940 Well, if you want some time with Dan again, we are building a 516 00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:44.900 service to do this for you. But I promise you you will not get 517 00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:47.489 a hard pitch from Dan if you grab some consulting time with him. He's 518 00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:52.969 just not that way and he's been offering his time to current customers to talk 519 00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:57.650 through how they can do this for themselves, whether or not you become a 520 00:36:57.730 --> 00:37:00.130 customer and in sign up for that service, and we want to extend that 521 00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:04.639 to everybody watching this or if you're watching the replay, hopefully you watched me 522 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.000 at two x, because I think I sound a lot smarter at two x 523 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.280 than I do at one. But thanks everybody who showed up live and we 524 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.070 nail it right on an hour. If you're not following Dan on Linkedin, 525 00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:19.030 look him up. Make sure you're following him for more stuff. He's going 526 00:37:19.070 --> 00:37:22.550 to be sharing more and more on this is we execute the audience growth fly 527 00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:25.389 wheel for customers on an ongoing basis. All right, thanks, everybody, 528 00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:34.900 see you all later. One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth 529 00:37:35.059 --> 00:37:38.179 is that word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. 530 00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:42.420 So, if you love this show, would be awesome if you texted a 531 00:37:42.500 --> 00:37:45.489 friend to tell them about and if you send me a text with a screenshot 532 00:37:45.570 --> 00:37:49.969 of the text you sent to your friend, Metta, I know I'll send 533 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:52.489 you a copy of my book, content based networking, how to instantly connect 534 00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:57.769 with anyone wanted. My cell phone numbers four hundred seven, four nine, 535 00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:00.199 hundred and three and three two eight. Happy texting.