Sustainable Relationships = Sustainable Growth

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:08.990 welcome back to BTV Growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with Sweet fish Media today. We 3 00:00:08.990 --> 00:00:13.530 will be continuing our deep dive into demand generation and I'm so excited to 4 00:00:13.530 --> 00:00:18.090 have column, I will joining us today column is a sustainable growth 5 00:00:18.090 --> 00:00:21.570 evangelist and as a member of the peak community over on linkedin. And if 6 00:00:21.570 --> 00:00:24.730 you're not familiar with the peak community, it is a private community of 7 00:00:24.730 --> 00:00:28.550 the best marketers and marketing leaders to connect, Learn from one 8 00:00:28.550 --> 00:00:33.180 another and get at least one better each week. So clean. Thank you so much 9 00:00:33.180 --> 00:00:37.580 for joining me today. Thanks Leslie, I really appreciate it. Excited to have 10 00:00:37.580 --> 00:00:41.850 you here. We talked so much just now in our pre call and I'm so excited to dive 11 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:47.380 in. You said so many good things in the recall so on linkedin you share a lot 12 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:52.120 about sustainable growth and you posted something recently that said something 13 00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:57.800 along the lines of sustainable growth comes from replicating sustainable 14 00:00:57.800 --> 00:01:02.610 relationships that appreciate in value and from what I've been learning into 15 00:01:02.610 --> 00:01:08.680 my deep dive into demand generation. It seems like this quote is relative to 16 00:01:08.690 --> 00:01:12.540 what I believe demand generally is. So, can you just talk about sustainable 17 00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:17.660 growth and how that incorporates into demand generation? Yeah, for sure. So, 18 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:21.960 you know, you you basically have, I'm gonna frame it this way. You have 19 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:28.280 gratitude and you have ambition. You have ambition to multiply your customer 20 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:35.060 base and grow the size of your business. And you also have gratitude to 21 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:40.460 appreciate for appreciating the people who you already served. And the way you 22 00:01:40.460 --> 00:01:45.230 navigate those two things is going to determine whether you are playing 23 00:01:45.230 --> 00:01:49.780 explosive growth or sustainable growth, right? So in sustainable growth 24 00:01:49.780 --> 00:01:53.850 philosophy, we're prioritizing gratitude for the people we already 25 00:01:53.850 --> 00:02:01.180 serve. And then on top of that we layer the multiplication, right? And we have 26 00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:07.200 that ambition to grow the business. So it's a natural human instinct. This is 27 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:12.920 deep, this is like at the core of humanity and the trap we fall into and 28 00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:14.260 I call it the acquisition track 29 00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:20.660 the acquisition trap which is to prioritize explosive customer 30 00:02:20.660 --> 00:02:28.390 acquisition and usually unknowingly experienced, diminishing returns over 31 00:02:28.390 --> 00:02:33.140 time, diminishing profitability, diminishing traction. So there is a 32 00:02:33.140 --> 00:02:39.300 confusion going on that you can explosively acquire customers and that 33 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:44.550 that is a sustainable activity as opposed to something that you time. 34 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:49.630 Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think another thing I wanted to touch 35 00:02:49.630 --> 00:02:56.080 on with you was marketing is constantly evolving, constantly changing. You 36 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:00.500 talked about this a little bit, but can we kind of discussed together the three 37 00:03:00.500 --> 00:03:04.550 levels of growth ideology? Um, I know you talked about this a lot on linkedin 38 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:08.090 and kind of there's all of these terms flying around, you know, the funnel, 39 00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:13.450 the flywheel, the ram engine. And I want to know, can we dive into each of 40 00:03:13.450 --> 00:03:17.330 those and kind of where demand generation fits into each of them. So 41 00:03:17.330 --> 00:03:22.710 this is very interesting. So, let's just start with the funnel, right? Our 42 00:03:22.710 --> 00:03:28.670 old friend, our old friend, the funnel. So the funnel is 100 focused on turning 43 00:03:28.670 --> 00:03:34.860 strangers into customers. Simple, attention, interest, desire, action. 44 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:42.220 Classic, Right? But it completely ignores lifetime value and replicating 45 00:03:42.220 --> 00:03:47.730 sustainable relationships to me. That's very delusional, you know, very 46 00:03:47.730 --> 00:03:52.810 delusional to think that you can acquire and that's going to be your way 47 00:03:52.810 --> 00:03:58.250 of growing, right? Right? So now we move on to that to the next phase, 48 00:03:58.250 --> 00:04:02.890 which is, which is flywheel, particularly the inbound marketing 49 00:04:02.890 --> 00:04:10.400 flywheel right from hubspot, which is attract, engage in delight. Mhm. That 50 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:14.760 model is 100 focused on turning strangers into promoters, 51 00:04:15.940 --> 00:04:21.670 paying promoters. Right, And that is an improvement. That's a massive 52 00:04:21.670 --> 00:04:29.190 improvement over the funnel, in my view. However, however, there is a confusion 53 00:04:29.190 --> 00:04:34.680 going on that was designed as an inbound marketing model. Mhm. Not as a 54 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:40.190 sustainable growth model for the business. So if you actually look at 55 00:04:40.190 --> 00:04:41.360 what hubspot is doing, 56 00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:44.150 you'll realize that 57 00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:49.460 sure there fly wheeling of course. But there's another thing they're doing 58 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.600 which is ramage it, but they don't tell you that because they haven't been able 59 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:59.460 to describe it for themselves. Mm hmm. So if you look at their curve, their 60 00:04:59.460 --> 00:05:03.120 revenue growth curve, you will see, first of all, you'll notice that 61 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.860 they're one of the best employers, they were the most popular places to work. 62 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:10.960 So they're focused on retaining and appreciating their employees. Right. 63 00:05:11.440 --> 00:05:15.080 The second thing is that they're actually trying to produce multiplying 64 00:05:15.080 --> 00:05:21.360 value for their best customers. So they are introducing new dream solution 65 00:05:21.940 --> 00:05:27.500 every so often to keep increasing the LTV and keep pulling people towards 66 00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:34.330 greater success. But none of that is described in the flywheel. So the 67 00:05:34.330 --> 00:05:38.360 problem is that now that hubspot has transitioned all the way to a Crm, 68 00:05:39.140 --> 00:05:43.940 they're now kind of, their narrative has evolved, they're now framing that 69 00:05:43.950 --> 00:05:51.260 as a focal point for departmental alignment. We can align our sales 70 00:05:51.260 --> 00:05:55.280 marketing and customer success around the flywheel problem is the flywheel 71 00:05:55.280 --> 00:06:00.100 was an inbound marketing model, not not a sustainable growth model or an 72 00:06:00.100 --> 00:06:05.810 alignment model. Right? So I don't I don't I don't know if someone else 73 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:11.080 hijacked that and then people started adding things to their flywheel, I 74 00:06:11.080 --> 00:06:17.080 don't know exactly how that's going on. But what I do know is that the flywheel, 75 00:06:17.090 --> 00:06:23.580 the inbound marketing flywheel is really a go to market type of strategy. 76 00:06:23.590 --> 00:06:29.360 The good part about it is that it assumes that you don't know who your 77 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:34.970 ideal client is, right. It's basically a process of finding out who can become 78 00:06:34.970 --> 00:06:41.730 a paying promoter. But once you've realized who these people are and who 79 00:06:41.730 --> 00:06:45.760 you really want to focus on, you need to change that methodology and flip it. 80 00:06:46.440 --> 00:06:53.750 That's what IBM is for mm To flip it and start the journey of RAM. Yeah, 81 00:06:53.760 --> 00:06:58.380 appreciate multiply Abyan. You're trying to multiply not just acquire a 82 00:06:58.380 --> 00:07:01.760 bunch of people and try to turn them into who you want them to be. Mhm. 83 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:06.980 You're a B. M. Is assuming that basically we have less influence and 84 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:11.640 control and people think we do. It assumes that we have to choose the 85 00:07:11.640 --> 00:07:16.470 right person and that if it's the wrong person, no matter what, no matter how 86 00:07:16.470 --> 00:07:19.830 we try to set expectations and no matter what our deliveries like there 87 00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:24.240 is inevitable churn which usually gets customer successes. He takes the blame 88 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.940 for that. Yeah. When it's actually marketing and sales fall a lot of times. 89 00:07:28.950 --> 00:07:31.840 Not always. But that's interesting. That's an interesting take. Why do you 90 00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:36.840 think that is? Well, to be honest with you, I think that that is happening all 91 00:07:36.840 --> 00:07:40.700 over the world in romantic relationships. I think it's happening. 92 00:07:40.700 --> 00:07:46.190 No, it is because people, they say what's wrong with me? All my customers 93 00:07:46.190 --> 00:07:52.180 success must suck. Mhm. I must be terrible in relationships. No, no, no. 94 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:56.250 You are attracting the wrong type of person and you're setting the wrong 95 00:07:56.250 --> 00:08:02.330 expectations. That's good. Which is manifesting itself down the road. But 96 00:08:02.330 --> 00:08:06.510 because you can't do direct attribution to that, you think it's your customer 97 00:08:06.510 --> 00:08:11.260 success or your service, your product, which sometimes it is the case. 98 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:16.540 Sometimes you do have a delivery problem, but I find that most really 99 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:23.060 well intentioned companies are having trouble getting the fit. So interesting, 100 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:25.920 very interesting. That is very interesting. And it's interesting you 101 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:31.580 brought up, you kind of brought up A B. M. And how, and I feel like you were 102 00:08:31.580 --> 00:08:36.320 kind of leaning into this, but correct me if I'm wrong in this model that, you 103 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.870 know, I want to talk to you about your client replication bullseye. You kind 104 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:48.220 of put demand generation and a B. M. Under brand marketing or inside of 105 00:08:48.220 --> 00:08:52.960 brand marketing. And so are you kind of saying that A B. M. And demand gen 106 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:54.850 really work together? 107 00:08:56.040 --> 00:09:00.870 Is that kind of what you're leaning into? What I'm basically saying, I'm 108 00:09:00.870 --> 00:09:08.630 making a stand about brand based on my sustainable growth principles. I said, 109 00:09:08.630 --> 00:09:14.290 well, in sustainable growth philosophy, every dollar that we extract from 110 00:09:14.290 --> 00:09:20.610 marketplace needs to increase our brand equity, Which means that everyone else 111 00:09:20.610 --> 00:09:26.620 you had to advertise to, to get that $1 needs to get uh, some needs to get 112 00:09:26.620 --> 00:09:31.600 really good value. Yeah. Or else you are decreasing your brand equity over 113 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:36.800 time and you're going to fall on the acquisition track. So this is why I'm 114 00:09:36.800 --> 00:09:41.060 forcing everything to be centered around education. I use the word 115 00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:44.960 education, education for demand generation and account based marketing. 116 00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:49.120 If someone wants to come up with a different one, that's a lead generation 117 00:09:49.130 --> 00:09:53.550 model or a demand capture model, they can do that. But this isn't about that. 118 00:09:54.640 --> 00:10:00.760 This is this is about growing the demand. Mm right? Not about capturing, 119 00:10:01.640 --> 00:10:05.610 This is much more in line with the inbound philosophy because it has 120 00:10:05.610 --> 00:10:10.940 nothing about converting people, right? Because I don't think people need 121 00:10:11.110 --> 00:10:16.450 advice on that. And I'm not an expert at that either. But I think people need 122 00:10:16.460 --> 00:10:24.320 to avoid the trap of not educating enough. So if you put everything under 123 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:31.380 brand marketing, it forces you to realize that everything is brant. Yeah. 124 00:10:31.390 --> 00:10:34.270 Everything when you're doing a B. M. It's brand. When you're doing demands 125 00:10:34.270 --> 00:10:41.310 and it's brand when you're doing brand, it's brand right to me. So why do you 126 00:10:41.310 --> 00:10:45.630 feel like this model is so interesting to me? Because I feel like for some 127 00:10:45.630 --> 00:10:52.440 reason, demand gen gets kind of a bad rep with followers at A B. M. So I've 128 00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:56.150 like, I've heard several A. B. M. Marketers claim I hate the term demand 129 00:10:56.150 --> 00:10:59.950 generation. Uh, it doesn't exist. It's not actually a thing. So why do you 130 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:04.480 think that is? Why do you think that A B. M. And demand gen kind of butt heads 131 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:10.300 a little bit? Yeah. So obviously, you know, I disagree with that A B. M. Take 132 00:11:10.310 --> 00:11:16.570 and I would disagree with demand gen people who say IBM that's not a real 133 00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:21.290 thing. That's just really good demand yet, right? Because you hear the 134 00:11:21.290 --> 00:11:25.130 opposite and I think that the frustration for the A. B. M. People 135 00:11:25.140 --> 00:11:33.740 just comes from seeing poorly executed demand gen In B. two B specifically in 136 00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:38.910 the sense that companies are trying to maximize the number of leads they get, 137 00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:43.400 they're trying to maximize the number of new customers that they get and they 138 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:54.160 have a disrespect for lifetime value, for profitability, for customer success, 139 00:11:54.940 --> 00:12:00.650 right? They think they are the growth, but it's like no, the whole team is the 140 00:12:00.650 --> 00:12:04.640 growth. And so I think A B. M. People are just frustrated with the with the 141 00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:09.680 quantity over quality that's been happening in demand yet and that's 142 00:12:09.680 --> 00:12:14.220 valid. However, I also want to point out that I think that a lot of A B. M. 143 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:18.930 People while they criticize that are falling into the same trap, they're 144 00:12:18.930 --> 00:12:23.130 like we we came up with this whole new category A B. M. And you know, demand 145 00:12:23.130 --> 00:12:26.950 gen isn't really a real thing, but what we're gonna do is we're going to do 146 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:32.260 personalization at scale using a bunch of Martek software, that's all the same. 147 00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:41.320 You come back to crappy demand gen now. So you know, you're both of those roads 148 00:12:41.330 --> 00:12:51.980 can lead to bad places if you're you're thinking process isn't clear. You know, 149 00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:56.180 you don't actually understand how this is going to affect the business and 150 00:12:56.190 --> 00:13:02.000 affect revenue and profitability and the happiness of your team. So I think 151 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:06.370 that the beauty is that demand gen and A BMR actually harmonious, just like 152 00:13:06.370 --> 00:13:12.830 brand marketing is harmonious with those two. The conflict is I think a 153 00:13:12.830 --> 00:13:18.010 big confusion because people have been defining these things in silos instead 154 00:13:18.010 --> 00:13:26.160 of all together in one model. So I think I think that it's always good to 155 00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:31.980 put things in context before you try to make definitions or else you end up 156 00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:38.630 with something that usually doesn't work very well. Hey everybody Logan was 157 00:13:38.630 --> 00:13:42.690 sweet fish here if you're a regular listener of GDP Growth, you know that 158 00:13:42.690 --> 00:13:46.650 I'm one of the co host of the show but you may not know that. I also head up 159 00:13:46.660 --> 00:13:51.100 the sales team here at Sweet Fish. So for those of you in sales or sales ops 160 00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:54.800 I wanted to take a second to share something that's made us insanely more 161 00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:58.730 efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the past few 162 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.250 months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact data now takes 163 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:08.620 us only one where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with outbound 164 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:13.070 prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 165 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.230 I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them 166 00:14:17.230 --> 00:14:24.590 out at least I Q. Dot com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All right. Let's get 167 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:32.480 back to the show. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask you to define demand jin but 168 00:14:32.490 --> 00:14:37.580 you've kind of done it with this model here. Yeah, for sure. And I mean look I 169 00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:41.350 mean chris walker talks about this all the time. Word of mouth. Word of mouth. 170 00:14:41.350 --> 00:14:44.660 Evangelism. Word of mouth. Evangelism. Word of mouth. Evangelism. Right? 171 00:14:45.040 --> 00:14:49.940 There's a reason why end brand marketing with surrounds your ICP with 172 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:55.030 word of reward of mouth evangelism and I demand generation with surrounds your 173 00:14:55.030 --> 00:15:00.340 dream accounts with word of mouth evangelism, right? So people, when you 174 00:15:00.340 --> 00:15:06.310 treat everything is brand as subsets of brand. You end up creating that word of 175 00:15:06.310 --> 00:15:10.590 mouth evangelism. Whereas if you think that demand generation is not a subset 176 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:17.150 of brand marketing, what do you do when you fall into bad behaviors? Quantity 177 00:15:17.430 --> 00:15:25.310 over quality is what you end up doing? Mhm. Automatically. 100%. And how, you 178 00:15:25.310 --> 00:15:30.500 know, within this brand marketing, how do you define success? Well, that's a 179 00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:35.450 good question. So here's the thing is this is a big issue for marketers 180 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:41.950 because now we're getting down to like attribution in a sense, it's hard. Like 181 00:15:41.950 --> 00:15:48.520 I told you, you know, there's a problem with churn happening later on because 182 00:15:48.530 --> 00:15:53.110 of something because of the way you did things at the beginning. How do we how 183 00:15:53.110 --> 00:15:57.240 do we show that that's actually what's happening? You know, and there is a 184 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:02.850 certain level of just logic and understanding that's required the Ceo 185 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:09.110 wants you to show him perfect, perfect data that's going to tell him exactly 186 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:13.460 what's going to happen in three years. I just think that person doesn't 187 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:17.750 understand reality very well. You know you have to have a certain amount of 188 00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:22.350 faith in education, you have to have a certain amount of faith that in your 189 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:26.860 narrative you have to have a certain amount of belief where it's like no I'm 190 00:16:26.860 --> 00:16:33.360 standing for this thing, it's the truth, I'm standing for truth. And once you 191 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:38.200 start standing for truth in that brand marketing instead of trying to persuade 192 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:43.560 everyone to buy things start to flow a lot easier, things start to flow a lot 193 00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:51.060 easier. And what I noticed is that most brand marketing and most companies kind 194 00:16:51.060 --> 00:16:58.300 of hide away the value. Usually they wait to educate, qualify and set 195 00:16:58.300 --> 00:17:04.160 expectations all in a very short period of time. This is where the concept of 196 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:08.599 lead forms came from. It was like hide the value away and then we'll qualify, 197 00:17:08.609 --> 00:17:12.119 set expectations, uh, you know what I mean? And make sure this all works 198 00:17:12.130 --> 00:17:16.650 right? And then people are end up still, they're still trying to gain trust from 199 00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:20.170 their clients after their clients. It's like we haven't gained their trust yet. 200 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:24.560 Well, that's a problem. If you're spending your time trying to gain their 201 00:17:24.560 --> 00:17:28.349 trust after they're already paying you, you're not spending your time actually 202 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:34.300 taking them to success. We've got major problems here, you know, so I'm a big 203 00:17:34.300 --> 00:17:39.060 proponent of pushing the education to the top. I hate to use the word funnel. 204 00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:43.170 People will understand it, push the education to the top of the funnel, 205 00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:50.890 right? And what happens is that the companies that do that end up doing a 206 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:57.220 lot of the qualification and the expectation setting and that infection 207 00:17:57.230 --> 00:18:04.940 earlier on lot earlier on, which avoids problems for sure. And kind of last 208 00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:08.420 question to kind of wrap things up. But I wanted to kind of get your opinion 209 00:18:08.420 --> 00:18:13.860 here on if you know, you were running a small organization that didn't really 210 00:18:13.860 --> 00:18:20.660 have much of a brand marketing strategy or a demand gen strategy, where would 211 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:25.410 you start? Like where do you even start? Just kind of from the bottom up? Okay, 212 00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:32.870 well, I'm a big supporter of category design and building. Mm. So I think the 213 00:18:32.870 --> 00:18:33.560 narrative, 214 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:38.770 if you don't without that, you're kind of just spinning your wheels to me. 215 00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:44.660 So, you know, I think that the first thing is the narrative, you know, the 216 00:18:44.660 --> 00:18:52.410 problem and the narrative. And then after that comes evangelism, and then 217 00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:58.200 eventually you get to talking about your specific solution in the beginning, 218 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.490 you're more talking about the general solution. So I talk about sustainable 219 00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:06.310 growth, right? And that's an ideology that's a methodology but that's not 220 00:19:06.310 --> 00:19:12.460 actually my service, my services a sub kind of a subcategory under sustainable 221 00:19:12.460 --> 00:19:16.410 growth. Okay. You get an infinite different types of services in that 222 00:19:16.410 --> 00:19:20.950 category. So I would define the narrative first. You know, what do you 223 00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:26.740 really stand for? What's the way of thinking about things that you are 224 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:32.670 certain is the new better way of doing things in the world? Mm. Right. 225 00:19:33.340 --> 00:19:38.080 Thinking about things, how do you operate? But you have to find this, you 226 00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:44.240 know Andy Raskin type old game new game thing or else it's just you're not 227 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.130 really going anywhere, You're not really going anywhere. So the first 228 00:19:47.130 --> 00:19:50.410 thing is the narrative. The second thing is packaging that narrative into 229 00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:55.180 some sort of consistent evangelism. I think a podcast is obviously the best 230 00:19:55.180 --> 00:20:00.780 for that. You're getting you getting video, you're getting audio, you're 231 00:20:00.790 --> 00:20:07.240 inviting current customers, past customers, I. C. P guests, uh 232 00:20:07.250 --> 00:20:12.670 influencers. And you're creating that greater sense of community very easily 233 00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:17.070 at the top of the final or on the outside of the bull's Eye, as I would 234 00:20:17.070 --> 00:20:24.720 say, right? Yeah. And then and then I think the part that I advocate for is 235 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.900 once you've created this narrative, old game, new game, you need you need to 236 00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:34.130 give your audience a way to measure themselves and start getting going on 237 00:20:34.130 --> 00:20:39.370 it without you. And that's why you need a scorecard. You need to turn the new 238 00:20:39.370 --> 00:20:44.870 game into a scorecard so that people can measure themselves, become self 239 00:20:44.870 --> 00:20:49.190 aware of where they're at what their problems are, and also envision a clear 240 00:20:49.190 --> 00:20:53.300 picture of what success looks like and feels like if that happens at the top 241 00:20:53.300 --> 00:20:59.630 of the funnel, it changes the quality coming through. This has been so, so 242 00:20:59.630 --> 00:21:04.240 insightful and thank you so much claim for joining me. I I really am excited 243 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.470 to take this back and do some more research and continue learning and 244 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.030 really study this, this model that you have here. And I think this is so 245 00:21:12.030 --> 00:21:15.160 interesting and I think a lot of people are going to find this really valuable. 246 00:21:15.170 --> 00:21:18.520 Where can people find you online if they're interested in learning more 247 00:21:18.520 --> 00:21:21.350 about this model, are learning more about, you know, the number one place 248 00:21:21.350 --> 00:21:26.270 to find me is linked in. I am always on linkedin. So you send me a message and 249 00:21:26.270 --> 00:21:31.350 I'll get back to you real quick. And then if you are interested, if you're a 250 00:21:31.350 --> 00:21:36.170 CMO or Emergency M O. Someone who's super serious about marketing and 251 00:21:36.170 --> 00:21:39.610 you're interested in having a supportive community, a collaborative 252 00:21:39.620 --> 00:21:43.830 community where you can get better every week. Get in touch with me on 253 00:21:43.830 --> 00:21:48.330 lengthen and I will get you in there. All right. I love it. Well, fantastic. 254 00:21:48.340 --> 00:21:51.290 Again, thank you so much for joining me here on GDP Growth. I appreciate it. 255 00:21:51.290 --> 00:21:52.270 Leslie see you. 256 00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:58.290 Mhm. One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that 257 00:21:58.300 --> 00:22:03.140 word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love 258 00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:07.020 this show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. 259 00:22:07.030 --> 00:22:10.570 And if you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your 260 00:22:10.570 --> 00:22:14.570 friend meta. I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based 261 00:22:14.570 --> 00:22:18.390 networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell 262 00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:24.170 phone number is (407 490 33 to eight. Happy texting. 263 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:28.750 Mhm.