#Sales 9: How Sales & Legal Alignment Increases Deal Velocity w/ Vishal Sunak

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:09.269 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:09.509 --> 00:00:13.310 I'm joined today by Vishal SUNAK. He is the CO founder and CEO 3 00:00:13.509 --> 00:00:16.510 at Link Squares for shall how you doing today, sir, Hey Logan, 4 00:00:16.589 --> 00:00:19.469 how are you? I'm doing well, Hey. We're going to be talking 5 00:00:19.550 --> 00:00:23.660 about, you know, legal departments alignment with sales and marketing. We talk 6 00:00:23.739 --> 00:00:27.300 so much about sales and marketing alignment we're leaving out all of the other functions. 7 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:31.179 So we're going to be talking about how legal teams can work with their 8 00:00:31.219 --> 00:00:36.490 sales teams to increase velocity to enable marketing better. Before we get into some 9 00:00:36.689 --> 00:00:40.130 tactics, why is this something that you and your team are so passionate about? 10 00:00:40.130 --> 00:00:46.369 Fishal well, I have worked in marketing departments previously and marketing ops and 11 00:00:46.450 --> 00:00:50.840 sales ops, and so I've had the joy of supporting like go to market 12 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:56.280 teams and as the company link scores was getting off the ground and kind of 13 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:03.439 driven by the the pain around these contracts that sales teams ending up getting executed 14 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.870 and then the business inheriting and not knowing what's in time, that it really 15 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.549 just kind of came full circle for me and my career. Like I love 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:15.549 this space, I love solving this problem through, you know, really advanced 17 00:01:15.549 --> 00:01:19.299 technology. I'm also like an engineer by by kind of classical training, and 18 00:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.459 so it's just like the combination of everything. I've worked with some great sales 19 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:27.859 and marketing leaders the Boston area where we're based, and I think, I 20 00:01:27.939 --> 00:01:34.129 think just everything is coming together, and essentially around contracts these days. That 21 00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:38.329 sort of feels like. Yeah, absolutely. I was reading a really great 22 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:42.209 book the expansion sale. Tim Rester was one of the CO authors of that 23 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:47.799 book. was recently on BB growth here and he was talking about you know, 24 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.359 when you're having an expansion conversation, it makes really makes it really tough 25 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.519 when you don't know a lot of the history in the agreement. You don't 26 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:57.879 have that right at your fingertips. You might have some of that in your 27 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.709 crm, but if you don't have the details and those specifics that were negotiated, 28 00:02:02.150 --> 00:02:06.510 even if they're there but they're not easy to find, then it makes 29 00:02:06.549 --> 00:02:10.469 it really tough. And you've seen just by upping the visibility of these agreements 30 00:02:10.509 --> 00:02:15.900 that oftentimes think that just goes into you know, file management, legal having 31 00:02:16.060 --> 00:02:20.460 easy access to more of that data from the go to market teams. It 32 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:24.099 can really enhance everybody's productivity. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean just 33 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:28.979 starting from the question of like where is that contract, all the way to 34 00:02:29.180 --> 00:02:34.370 like maybe something really complicated, like there's a termination for convenience or a cure 35 00:02:34.610 --> 00:02:39.370 period that that is being exercised in relation to like a termination or something that's 36 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:46.439 in in more complex. Right, everything that companies are thinking about in terms 37 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.800 of operationally, it really comes back to cannot find the contract, what does 38 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.240 it say? Get to have access to this information? Can I then tribute 39 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:59.870 this information from you know, account exactly as account manage being customer success, 40 00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:04.030 to legal of finance? Do we understand the impact of getting this renewal, 41 00:03:04.189 --> 00:03:07.830 not getting this renewal? Do we know renewals coming up next next quarter that 42 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:14.219 you have weird opt out to have we have we failed to deliver something that's 43 00:03:14.259 --> 00:03:16.740 in this continent? It's all those things, right, and and now we 44 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:22.699 kind of the landscape as it is with covid kind of happening in the world 45 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:28.169 around us. Having access some more data, having access to being able to 46 00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:32.009 provide options and flexibility is really super important, I think, for everyone. 47 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:37.810 Yeah, and being able to offer not only options and flexibility, but just 48 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:42.000 showing the customer that you know, that you have the information. I hate 49 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.360 when I'm like dealing with customer service somewhere, I don't care if it's like 50 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.599 my isp or, you know, cell phone provider or whatever. I'm like, 51 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.960 shouldn't you have this like? Shouldn't shouldn't you know this like, and 52 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.189 just not putting the customer in the position of having to ask that question. 53 00:03:55.509 --> 00:03:59.789 Shouldn't you know this right? And and on the other side, I've been 54 00:03:59.949 --> 00:04:03.430 in sales situations where I'm coming up on a renewal conversation and I dig in 55 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:10.020 and the customer success team didn't know about, you know that that specific benchmark 56 00:04:10.099 --> 00:04:12.939 that we promised to hit, or that you know one kind of wrinkle that 57 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:15.300 we added into the scope or something like that, and now all of a 58 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.100 sudden that changes the game. It changes that conversation because, like Tim and 59 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:23.980 their team, the authors of the expansion sale talk about the first step in 60 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:29.209 any expansion up cell or cross l is to document where you've then in the 61 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:32.850 success is so far. And so if there's misalignment on expectations and success is, 62 00:04:32.889 --> 00:04:38.250 it really puts that account management sales team whoever's handling that upgrade, renewal 63 00:04:38.290 --> 00:04:42.040 or expansion really puts them in a bad spot. So what some of your 64 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:46.759 advice? Fishelf for legal teams working with sales and account management teams to really 65 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:53.230 be more hand in hand walking in locks up. Yeah, it comes down 66 00:04:53.389 --> 00:04:58.310 to the the opportunities to help the top line of the company, right, 67 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:02.350 and and looking at contracts and knowing, I mean legal should know things like 68 00:05:02.990 --> 00:05:08.420 there's a six percent like call it static pricing crease every year, right, 69 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.860 and and being able to say, in a scenario where the the team that's 70 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.500 doing an upsell or a cross cell or renewal doesn't have access to the actual 71 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:25.009 commercial like terms of service, if that's disjointed, which is often the case, 72 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:29.970 like order forms and agreements with separately, being able to provide insight and 73 00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:31.689 say hey, no matter what, you got to take like say, six 74 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:36.439 percent at the time of renewal. But here's the other ways that we see 75 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:43.639 the contract in terms of maybe even like forward looking risk like stuff at the 76 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.439 time of renewal. You want to get out. Those are really valuable moments. 77 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.870 Right, someone is signing up, someone signing up to go do something 78 00:05:49.910 --> 00:05:56.149 and maybe the contract had a rolling puped out with ninety days notice or some 79 00:05:56.230 --> 00:05:59.709 of that, and you're thinking that the relationship is actually going quite well from 80 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.870 the sales and success perspective. And that's opportunity for the legal team like step 81 00:06:02.949 --> 00:06:05.220 up and say, you know, at the time of renewal, we're going 82 00:06:05.259 --> 00:06:09.139 to get rid of this clause for you right, so we have protection for 83 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:13.779 the future and just like thinking smartly, thinking proactively, thinking about the future. 84 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:16.100 Those are great opportunities to legal teeths to dig in and help right and 85 00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:19.449 and that should be easy enough to do. But you know, again, 86 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:23.009 if you don't know where the contract is, that don't know, don't know 87 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:27.490 what is inside of it becomes a challenge. Yeah, and in times right 88 00:06:27.529 --> 00:06:30.170 now, you know, I know that in my own sales are all here 89 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:34.120 at sweet fish. Just in the last three thousand and sixty ninety days there's 90 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.839 been, you know, more scrutiny from the CFO and from finance with with 91 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.040 agreements, as they take a very close look at any new sort of spend, 92 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.040 no matter who the customer is or the industry, but also legal looking 93 00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:50.149 at you know, there are a lot of companies that are still spending money 94 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:56.069 but they're being very cautious about, you know, longer term commitments or agreements 95 00:06:56.110 --> 00:07:00.870 that don't have a very clear outfur performance, or or they're asking for a 96 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:03.860 more flexible out just based on convenience, those sorts of things. So if 97 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:09.620 our customers legal departments are looking at things with a fine tooth comb to kind 98 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:13.740 of protect their organizations, we should be walking in lock step on the other 99 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:17.329 side with our legal teams to set things up for success on both sides. 100 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:21.370 What are some of the common pain points you see, vishaw, that sales 101 00:07:21.370 --> 00:07:27.449 team are dealing with with the entire contract management workflow? What it like? 102 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.839 If sales teams are seeing these three four things, then maybe they need to 103 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.519 go have a conversation with legal and see can we improve things? What are 104 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.800 some of the common symptoms? Yeah, from all the conversations we've had over 105 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:45.949 the last five six years, the deployment of technology and contract management, though 106 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:49.790 they it feels like there's like hundreds of hundreds are providers. Adoption of it 107 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:55.670 inside companies, from all the data that we have has been pretty low right, 108 00:07:55.829 --> 00:08:01.540 and so there's definitely opportunities where, let's let's face it, a contract 109 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:05.339 is going to get drafted one way or another, whether it's a Microsoft word 110 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:11.939 template that it's getting copied and pasted and then we personalized and customized for a 111 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:16.769 particular deal and is being sent out via email for approval. Right, like 112 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:20.930 all of those kind of workflows are still going to go on. Can there 113 00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.529 the downfalls of it? Yeah, absolutely right. And so as folks to 114 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:28.680 thinking about like adopting technology, I really think about it in three phases, 115 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.240 like like what are you doing presignature? Once the process presignature, what tools 116 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:37.080 you have in place? How are you getting signatures? That's kind of the 117 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.720 middle phase, and then the end phase is where are you storing it? 118 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.309 How are you gathering Meta data? How are you having kind of proactive information 119 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:50.110 at your fingertips to drive kind of future behavior, drive understanding of what you 120 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:54.470 agreed to write? And so in those three phases, you know there's essentially 121 00:08:54.710 --> 00:09:00.059 three unique value props to technology to be installed, right, and so I 122 00:09:00.179 --> 00:09:03.779 think on the sale side there's so many sales teams, are talked to, 123 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:09.019 so many that you don't have the ability to do like self service drafting, 124 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:11.769 and that slows them down right, like like I need to put together a 125 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:18.529 master service agree our classical master service agreement for another customer that's basically getting the 126 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:22.769 same manster service. Are Going to the last thousand customers got and just starting 127 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:26.519 from like can I be the one that can fill it out and drafted? 128 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:28.639 Well, you know, is he is the right approved template, you know 129 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.279 being used and you know did you did you download it off the share drive 130 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.830 and are you using like like all that kind of upfront self service friction that 131 00:09:37.990 --> 00:09:41.629 can be self the technology right and and then from there, I think it's 132 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:46.149 really when a sales rep is going to go out and do their job, 133 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:48.149 which is they're going to go find a customer, they're going to go do 134 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:50.029 it down, when they're going to go sell the value, they're going to 135 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.379 get the pricing right and then they're going to ask legal to help right, 136 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:58.779 and sales rips needs to focus on selling right, and I always tell that 137 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:03.100 inside our company it's like what can I do to help you write? What 138 00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:07.210 can our management team do to help the people on the front lines and take 139 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:11.169 off that burden right, which is also the burden of like visibility and like 140 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:15.850 knowing, like like where is a document that had red lines come back and 141 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:18.409 is it being reviewed? WHO's reviewing it? Can I get an update? 142 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.440 Yeah, I have a I have a call with them tomorrow. Is there 143 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.919 a chance I can get this back? Like all that back and forth right, 144 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.960 like I think that's super vital for sales and legal stay connected that way, 145 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.320 right, and and that's like the communication of where something is. It's 146 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.230 vital to the company, it's vital to the sales runs vital to the sales. 147 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:41.590 Seem to have that partnership right. And then as as kind of the 148 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:45.190 life cycle of the contract moves from like it's been drafted, it's been redline, 149 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:50.220 it's been negotiated, it's been signed, it's getting stored somewhere where everyone 150 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:54.100 can have access to it. It has act. We all have access to 151 00:10:54.139 --> 00:10:58.379 the same information. So we're all kind of talking from the same so to 152 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.820 speak. Like. But you talked about at the point of Renewal, having 153 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:05.769 your act together, really knowing at a deep level what a particular customer had 154 00:11:05.889 --> 00:11:13.490 or didn't have. We have a customer in the ECOMMERCE space who has contracts 155 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:18.570 structured in a way it's based on page views. E commerce based on page 156 00:11:18.570 --> 00:11:22.919 views and technology, and so their customers, through the work at home for 157 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:28.759 the quarantine there and and customer has been using a ton of page views, 158 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.080 right, because, because everyone's doing a ton more online shopping than they've ever 159 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.830 had before, and their business model is such that, like, they have 160 00:11:37.070 --> 00:11:41.110 access to more cap you not cash coming in from their customers if these pageviews 161 00:11:41.149 --> 00:11:46.220 have been exceeded, right, and so they have saved hundreds and hundreds of 162 00:11:46.299 --> 00:11:52.019 thousands of dollars young gone and collected it from their customers just because they have 163 00:11:52.299 --> 00:11:56.740 that information. Right, they all can x access in people on the front 164 00:11:56.779 --> 00:12:01.289 lines as renewal opportunities are coming in, or they're seeing huge correlation between the 165 00:12:01.649 --> 00:12:05.289 contracts, as you get fiftyzero pace reviews a month and this customers using a 166 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:09.610 hundred and twenty five thousand peace us, and I'm like something's got to get 167 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:13.929 here right. But like enabling that action right. It's been incredible to see 168 00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:16.120 examples like that come up like every day, right, and I think there's 169 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.799 a there's an amazing partnership kind of in the legal the modern legal team. 170 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:22.919 We always talk about like what comes next for reals, like the modern legal 171 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:28.519 team. Like we're really excited about being being a part of that story and 172 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.590 and seeing, seeing how the market or continuous to evolved like like other markets, 173 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:37.070 like like the marketing tech type of arcate and the sales tage and fantastic 174 00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:41.750 right. I'm fingers crossed for that in legal. Yeah, yeah, absolutely 175 00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:46.659 so. If there are sales leaders listening to this and they say hey, 176 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.059 I want to go to my legal team, I want to show them some 177 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:54.299 some reasons why we should, we should look into some technology for contract management 178 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:58.539 because it's going to benefit us, it's going to benefit you, but it's 179 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.809 going to probably have to be mutual by in we mentioned earlier. You know 180 00:13:01.850 --> 00:13:07.610 we've talked about benefits of renewal conversations. You talked about not missing revenue opportunities 181 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:13.399 based on certain stipulations within contracts. We mentioned at the top of the episode 182 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:18.200 that deal velocity is another benefit here. What are some of the common things 183 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.519 that you're seeing that sales teams could maybe take to their legal team and say, 184 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.039 look, you guys, implement this, it's going to have this sort 185 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.710 of impact. What what's been the impact on deal velocity that you've seen your 186 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:31.909 customers and others implementing this sort attack? Yeah, let our sills, let 187 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:37.629 ourselves team self service, draft off a proof caught of proof templates. Let 188 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:41.190 us do that like fast, right. And so it's kind of out of 189 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:45.139 out of the legal teams per view to constantly be getting requests. Can I 190 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:46.659 get it? Can I get the MSA? Can I get the mutual NBA? 191 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.820 Can I get the security questionnaire drafted for this customer? Let us draft 192 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:54.139 it on our own, right. That will speed up at least kind of 193 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:58.490 the first action where the sales, as they control, of right from there 194 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:03.289 and enable a common kind of vernacular to exist between, like you know, 195 00:14:03.370 --> 00:14:07.090 in SLA, between sales and legal. Right. Having that SLA is so 196 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:13.759 super important, right, in the sense that, like when when redline comes 197 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.600 in, right, and in a new in a new deal is being worked, 198 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.000 what is the turnaround time I can expect as a sale leader? Right, 199 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.230 is it? Is it twelve hours? Is a twenty four hours? 200 00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:28.149 Is it? Is it something more? Is it something less? Right, 201 00:14:28.870 --> 00:14:33.230 having that upfront conversation and then, and then, as a as a document 202 00:14:33.309 --> 00:14:37.669 flows, it goes through red lines, it gets it gets to executed. 203 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.340 There can we rely on being able to find this dock together? And if 204 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:45.779 I have nuance questions, maybe I can go and look at it self as 205 00:14:45.779 --> 00:14:48.940 a sales leader, sales manager, sales director. I have this conversation. 206 00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:52.250 Would be a customer Success Matt, all the time. We're talking renewals all 207 00:14:52.330 --> 00:14:56.289 the time, right, and I talking new business with my croc right all 208 00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:00.649 the time. And at the a the point of renewal, we just know 209 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:05.129 so much about everything going on because we have but one common view of the 210 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:09.039 customer, everything from their usage to their pricing, what they bought, how 211 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.120 they're using it, their behavior and also the contract itself, right. So 212 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.480 it's definitely something that is a partnership. But think about it in steps like 213 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.269 that. And Yeah, one of the things that we saw as opportunities to 214 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:28.110 make a presignature tool that can do like self service drafting, template, template 215 00:15:28.190 --> 00:15:31.909 storage and then being able to create copies, being able to store versions, 216 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:35.419 being able to have like a chat like experience where you can invite someone into 217 00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:39.500 a conversation to review a document. So, I mean we built a whole 218 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.659 new product in the quarantine and it's coming out this month that, you know, 219 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.820 does that right, and and now we have kind of more parts of 220 00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:52.649 the chain in one platform. Yeah, absolutely, Vichel. As we round 221 00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:56.289 out that conversation today, you know, I mentioned a few can trends that 222 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.049 that I'm seeing where legal seems to be taking a closer look at new agreements 223 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:06.000 from the customer, from the prospect side, either related to that, or 224 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:11.320 where you see kind of trends between legal and sales alignment? Anything else that 225 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.080 you want to point to that that you guys are kind of seeing in the 226 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.840 world that you live and breathe every day that you think seals leaders should kind 227 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.549 of have have their ear to the to the ground on or have their finger 228 00:16:21.629 --> 00:16:25.230 on the pulse of? Any anything else that you see kind of trending in 229 00:16:25.350 --> 00:16:27.029 the months and maybe the next year to come? I know any sort of 230 00:16:27.389 --> 00:16:30.629 prediction question right now is like are you kidding made? Do you know where 231 00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:33.220 we thought we were in January and look where we are now in June, 232 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:37.700 but any thoughts there to kind of round it out? Yeah, you made 233 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.340 a comment earlier about about the CFO definitely playing more of a role. I 234 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:48.049 mean I think previously, maybe with an an annual contract value around forty K, 235 00:16:48.450 --> 00:16:51.529 the CFO probably didn't need to be involved, but now I think that 236 00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:56.929 bar is dropped significantly. They maybe down to fifty K, depending on the 237 00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:00.730 company. Right thinking just averages were like the CEEFO is just going to be 238 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:06.000 involved, and when the CFO is involved on the other side there's more scrutiny 239 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:12.039 into like terminations, static price like increases, basically fixed prices, like can 240 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.950 you can you grandfathers into this pricing for x amount of time, like two 241 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:19.109 years or three years, like I want to sign. I want to sign 242 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:22.670 this deal, flexibility on payment terms. Right. It's just like having that 243 00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:26.470 kind of upfront conversation, and it's almost to your benefit to like kind of 244 00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:30.859 bite the bullet and say, okay, can your cefo come into the to 245 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:33.900 the process now, right, versus trying to say, well, like you 246 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.539 know, back in two thousand and nineteen, I could get the seal done 247 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:38.460 without a CFL. Well, many things will change, right, and that'll 248 00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:41.859 only help you. I mean, it may not go any faster, right. 249 00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:45.410 I mean we've seen our own kind of seal cycles definitely getting above our 250 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:51.650 kind of known historical averages just because folks are just taking longer. It's taking 251 00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:56.529 longer, taking more decision checkpoints. Just keeping that all kind of in view, 252 00:17:56.690 --> 00:18:02.920 right, as the opportunities for you to like work fast are when the 253 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.200 ball is in your court and when the balls in your courts are like, 254 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.079 you know, review red lines, like get on it with your sale team, 255 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.559 like get on it with your legal team. Right, get, get, 256 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:15.390 get alignment and get that next turn of the document out, because you 257 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.150 don't need it going an extra day because you got a bad process between sales 258 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:22.390 and legal. Don't do that now everything sales cycles are getting longer anyway. 259 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:26.230 Don't make it harder on yourself. Yeah, don't do that. So good. 260 00:18:26.990 --> 00:18:30.099 I love your advice to just bring up the objections bring up, you 261 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.940 know, in your sales process. A Hey, you know, the last 262 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:37.579 few customers have been working with the CFO and the legal team have had questions 263 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:42.289 about this or these have been their top three priorities or sticking points. Which 264 00:18:42.329 --> 00:18:45.849 one of those do you think is most likely? Well, I don't know. 265 00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:48.009 Well, maybe we should have the CFO in on the next conversation. 266 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:55.210 And now you are the consultant helping them by not trying to not just trying 267 00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:57.960 to sell and trying to avoid the hard questions. You're bringing them up and 268 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:00.880 the more that you look at Hey, I dealt with that in this situation. 269 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.240 I'm going to talk to you about it and see if it's the same, 270 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.519 but I'm going to ask that question. It might not be the same, 271 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.309 but you you prove your credibility, you prove that you've been through this 272 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:15.509 process, be for and that only instills trust in your champion or the economic 273 00:19:15.589 --> 00:19:18.950 buyer or the sea level executive that you're working with eventually in the deal. 274 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:23.380 So I love that advice. For shall the kind of slight of hand bravado 275 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:27.220 type of selling. I mean it's both. Those days are. Hopefully they 276 00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:30.859 were over before two thousand and twenty started, but if, if there are, 277 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.140 they weren't over them. They definitely are now. And me, Yep, 278 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:38.609 I think. I think the other thing is also bringing security up. 279 00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:42.210 It's a big deal now, right. I mean the big De dos attack 280 00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:45.890 that happened, like you know, Earli, the sort of big saber attack. 281 00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:49.049 It's on top of mine everyone now, right, and that's also going 282 00:19:49.089 --> 00:19:52.160 to take longer. So again, sales, go talk to your C so 283 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.880 or whether your VP engineering or your CTEO and basically be like hey, listen, 284 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.039 here's the story. Everything is taking a lot longer. Can you not 285 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.480 make that last piece like extra, extra long, like can we just be 286 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.589 ready to, you know, serve the needs of the sales seem those are 287 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:10.589 all good conversations, right, good leaders. Yeah, don't. Don't just 288 00:20:10.710 --> 00:20:15.109 sit on your hands and say that legal or your Security Department or whoever it 289 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:19.390 might be, is being the sales prevention department. Go to them and don't 290 00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:22.700 just call them the sales to prevention department. Go to them and say you 291 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:29.500 guys can be the ones who are driving velocity for the sales team. Let's 292 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.980 work together to make it happen. I love that, vishaw. If anybody 293 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:36.410 listening to this is become a fast fan of yours, they want to learn 294 00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:38.809 more about what you guys are doing at link squares or dig into some more 295 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:44.450 content related to the topic today. What's the best place for people to reach 296 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:48.009 out, get in touch or stay connected? Yeah, come check out our 297 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:52.079 website, Len scorescom. We got awesome blog. Hats to my Cemo, 298 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:59.519 Juliet, who's cranking, cranking blog posts and content out at a furious face 299 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.910 and it's it's a good kind of resource as you think about kind of what 300 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:08.630 comes back and in this kind of really challenging condition. And please reach out 301 00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:11.789 if we can be helpful. I love it Chall I love to hear that. 302 00:21:11.910 --> 00:21:17.029 Hat Tip to the CMO. CEO and CEMO relationship sometimes can be some 303 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.579 of the most frount with friction, so I love to hear you know a 304 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.420 good relationship there. Well. Thank you so much for a great conversation. 305 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:29.700 Several great tips for sales and legal alignment. We talk so much about sales 306 00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:34.490 and marketing alignment. Let's let's talk about another crucial function that can drive revenue 307 00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:37.890 when they work together with the go to market teams. Are Really enjoyed the 308 00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:41.970 conversation today. Thanks for being the guest. Yeah, thank you. Thanks 309 00:21:41.970 --> 00:21:47.009 for having me. This episode is brought to you by Panda Doc. Sending 310 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:49.960 your documents is PDFs through email is super old school. 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