#HowToPodcast 15: How to Name A B2B Podcast: Tips & An Unconventional Trick

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:09.109 Welcome back to the BEDB grows show. I'm Dan Sanchez and today we're doing 2 00:00:09.150 --> 00:00:14.189 another episode on the how to podcast series and I'm joined with James Carberry, 3 00:00:14.310 --> 00:00:17.829 the founder of sweet fish media and the creator of this show. So, 4 00:00:17.989 --> 00:00:21.350 James, how you doing today? I am fantastic, my man. I'm 5 00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:26.420 really excited to dive into this topic because it's something that is a big part 6 00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:30.620 of the conversations that we have internally at sweetish and it's a huge part of 7 00:00:30.739 --> 00:00:35.100 our customers experience because it's such a huge part of the success of of a 8 00:00:35.179 --> 00:00:40.009 BDB podcast. So I'm really excited to kind of have our thoughts organized around 9 00:00:40.049 --> 00:00:45.130 this and dive into this today. Today we're talking about how to name a 10 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:50.000 podcast. It's a topic that's come up frequently, even over the last month, 11 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.399 over the last multiple months, as we've had more and more discussions with 12 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.920 launching our own podcast, around naming and even a bunch of our customers how 13 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.560 do you properly name a podcast? And there's actually a lot of considerations that 14 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.310 go to it. Even though it seems like it'd be an intuitive choice, 15 00:01:04.629 --> 00:01:10.709 it's actually a very unintuitive thing to do and James has had some great thoughts 16 00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:12.790 about it. I mean, you've launched how many podcasts now? Yeah, 17 00:01:12.829 --> 00:01:17.750 we've done well over a hundred. It might be knocking down the door two 18 00:01:17.750 --> 00:01:22.340 hundred podcasts at this point. And just to give folks context, our experience 19 00:01:22.379 --> 00:01:26.340 is in the BTB space. So we are specifically going to be talking here 20 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:33.409 about naming be to be podcast, podcasts that typically are aligned with what we 21 00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:38.209 call content based networking, so shows that are not just intended to grow an 22 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:44.409 audience but also intended to help you attract your ideal buyer or ideal strategic partners 23 00:01:44.450 --> 00:01:48.840 as guests on your show as well. So give a little bit of context 24 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.280 before we dive into this. Absolutely. So, why would you say like 25 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:57.280 this is even important? Why is this critical to get right the first so 26 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.640 so the name of your show, you know, as we were talking about 27 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.230 before we start recording this day, and like the name of your show is 28 00:02:02.269 --> 00:02:07.189 foundational. I mean, imagine if your house had, you know, a 29 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:10.590 shaky foundation or if you, you know, were to build your house on 30 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:16.900 sand as opposed to concrete. It makes such a massive impact on the you 31 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:21.979 know, has long term implications of the success of your show, and it's 32 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:28.620 important because it's going to determine your audience and it's going to determine the type 33 00:02:28.659 --> 00:02:30.689 of guests that you can get on the show. And if you want to 34 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:35.530 be strategic with your podcast and you want it to stand the test of time, 35 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:39.889 you obviously want your show to attract ideal listeners that can actually buy your 36 00:02:39.969 --> 00:02:45.199 products or service or refer your product and service to, you know, to 37 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.120 your ideal buyers. But you also want your show to be able to attract 38 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.159 your ideal clients as guests on your show, because when, when you have 39 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:58.000 an ideal clan as a guest on your show, it's the fastest way to 40 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:02.430 build a meaningful one to one relationship with somebody. It's fastest way I found 41 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:07.509 anyway to do that, and relationships and be to be are a huge part 42 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:14.419 of success. If somebody knows, likes and trust you, then they are 43 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:17.259 likely going to buy from you when they have a need for what it is 44 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:21.979 that you offer. So that's why I think it's so important to nail the 45 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:25.620 name of your show absolutely. And as a marketer, I think all marketers 46 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:30.250 know the importance of a name right like the name of your company matters, 47 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:32.689 the name of our your lead product. It really matters. It's set the 48 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.729 expectations for what it is, what it does, maybe how it makes you 49 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:38.810 feel. There's just a lot of things that pivot on that name. So 50 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:43.599 it's worth taking the time to do it well. Yeah, what are some 51 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.439 common elements you find make up a good name? Yeah, so, as 52 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:51.199 I thought about this, you know, I think a name has to be 53 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:55.789 authoritative. It needs to be really strong and position you as the leader in 54 00:03:55.909 --> 00:04:00.870 your industry or in your space. We're going to get into some nuances and 55 00:04:00.909 --> 00:04:05.469 some examples later, but it needs to be authoritative. The shorter the better. 56 00:04:05.710 --> 00:04:10.740 So we were actually doing some digging on Apple podcasts before we started this 57 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:16.660 episode, and you realize that a lot of podcast names get truncated, and 58 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:20.459 so if you have a show name that is more than, I think, 59 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:26.529 twenty two characters, it is likely going to get truncated. It's somewhere around 60 00:04:26.569 --> 00:04:30.889 twenty two to twenty three characters, and that matters. You don't you obviously 61 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:34.089 don't want your show name to get truncated. There there are shows and apple 62 00:04:34.170 --> 00:04:39.800 podcasts that do go longer than that and they're still successful. So we're not 63 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.000 saying that you can't have a successful show. You can't build brand around your 64 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.199 show to overcome having a truncated name. But if you're being thoughtful about what 65 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:51.000 the show name is on the front end, keep that in mind under under 66 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:58.069 twenty three characters if possible. This next element is you need to be clear. 67 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:01.629 So many people try to get cute and fancy and they try to incorporate 68 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:06.459 a lot of different things about their brand and their expertise into the show name. 69 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:12.620 But above all, your show name should be crystal clear. When someone 70 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:16.500 is searching for a topic that they're interested in and at an apple podcast or 71 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:20.139 spotify and they see your show, that's what you want to happen right you 72 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:25.129 want them searching for what they want to consume and you want your show name 73 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:30.050 to be so clear that your show POPs up whenever they're typing what they want 74 00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:33.449 to listen to and they need to have no doubt what your show is about. 75 00:05:33.889 --> 00:05:38.120 People miss we're going to talk about some common mistakes later in this but 76 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:42.079 people mess that up a lot. It's an easy thing to mess up because 77 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.600 it's it. Like you said earlier in the episode, this this naming start, 78 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:49.550 this what this approach to naming your show is not. It's not intuitive. 79 00:05:49.589 --> 00:05:54.269 It's actually pretty counterintuitive, but these are things that we've learned over time 80 00:05:54.350 --> 00:05:57.110 that we have to be mindful of. So make sure you're show name is 81 00:05:57.189 --> 00:06:01.029 clear. I want to talk about something here, Dan, because you mentioned 82 00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:04.620 it before we started recording, and it's, you know, should you use 83 00:06:04.660 --> 00:06:10.379 the word podcast or show in your name? Yep, and and I think 84 00:06:10.579 --> 00:06:13.740 that you know, this falls into the you know, elements of a name 85 00:06:13.779 --> 00:06:15.980 right. And so we've got some shows. You know, we're a podcast 86 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:19.569 first media company, but we're also podcast agency. So we have our own 87 00:06:19.649 --> 00:06:26.089 shows based on things that we've learned from the hundred plus shows that we produced 88 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:30.449 for other companies. But then we also are producing a lot of new shows 89 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:33.519 every month for the shows that we don't own. And so for our shows, 90 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:36.839 you know, we've got one of our podcasts, it's called the manufacturing 91 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.240 show, but we've got another show called baby growth, which you're listening to 92 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.680 now. We've got another one called crafting culture, so we go both ways. 93 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.550 We've got another one called the CIO show. So as I started thinking 94 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:54.990 about why is using show in one context better than the other, and I 95 00:06:55.069 --> 00:06:59.790 think first we'll start by saying should we use the word show? Or podcast, 96 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:03.660 and my thinking has evolved over time on this. I think that using 97 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:09.300 the word show is better and, and this is only a recent realization for 98 00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:12.980 me, I think using the word show is better because it actually opens up 99 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:16.490 your media property to being used in a lot of different contexts. So let's 100 00:07:16.490 --> 00:07:23.170 say you want to translate or repurpose content from your podcast onto youtube or a 101 00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:29.370 linkedin live series. Being able to use the same name across platforms means you 102 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.120 need to use the word show instead of podcast. So I would air right 103 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.279 now, you know, as we're recording this May of two thousand and twenty. 104 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.680 My stance is I think you should air. If you're going to use 105 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:43.279 one or one or the other show or podcast in your show name, I 106 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.509 would say you show. But let's talk about when to actually use show. 107 00:07:46.910 --> 00:07:50.990 So when you look at a show name like, I don't know, let's 108 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:58.029 use two of our shows, so crafting culture and the manufacturing show. Yeah, 109 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:03.300 so the reason we use in the show name the manufacturing show is because 110 00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:09.019 manufacturing is a big industry. It's a very authoritative name and we're going to 111 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:13.689 be covering a lot of ground on that show. So the more authoritative the 112 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.889 name, the bigger the industry, or I don't even want to say the 113 00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.850 bigger the industry. If you're covering an entire industry, then it's likely that 114 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:28.040 you're going to need show as the noun in your show name, because for 115 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.519 us, manufacturing becomes the adjective, the manufacturing show. It's the the or 116 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:39.360 I don't know if it's necessarily the adjective, it is the descriptor of show. 117 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.470 So what kind of show? The Manu facturing show, as opposed to 118 00:08:43.470 --> 00:08:48.830 be to be growth, which does not, does not necessarily need to have 119 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:52.789 show in in the name, and so it what are your thoughts on this? 120 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:58.659 Dand, yeah, it does sound weird to have a show that doesn't 121 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:01.139 have that descriptor in it. I mean you think if even our other show, 122 00:09:01.259 --> 00:09:05.620 like the CIO show, it just looks totally weird standing by itself the 123 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:11.529 CIO or just ceio, like it's like lacks enough description, like it's not 124 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:15.289 a complete description without the word show in it. Yep, it just needs 125 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:18.649 a little bit more in order for it to be viable. Yeah, so 126 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:22.450 if we if we were to have named it the effective cio, that does 127 00:09:22.529 --> 00:09:26.480 it like it it rolls off your tongue better and you have a descriptor in 128 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.080 there, and then Ceioh, which is the you know, we're going to 129 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.279 talk about coming common naming frameworks later, but the job title of the ideal 130 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:41.470 listener or your ideal guest is now the thing being described, and that's where 131 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:46.909 it makes sense. Yep. So those are my thoughts on on the common 132 00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:50.509 elements of a good name. Yeah, and I even think of like Joe 133 00:09:50.590 --> 00:09:54.500 Rogan. I mean he just moved his whole show to spotify. It's for 134 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:56.940 a hunt even at it's not even an apple podcast anymore, right, yeah, 135 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.379 like it's now a show on spotify and I don't think it is spotify 136 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:05.820 even using the word podcast as a I don't know description. It's just audio, 137 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:09.009 it's just it's content for them. So it's like podcast. It's like 138 00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.049 it might be here five years from now, ten years from now it might 139 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:16.769 not. Shows not going anywhere. It's just a decription for tonight shows, 140 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:20.450 so doesn't for a while. So it's a little bit more timeless and less 141 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:22.679 characters you have to deal with, less syllables, more memorable. Yep. 142 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.360 So now that we've gone over some of the good elements, let's jump into 143 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.879 some of the common mistakes people are making with names. What do you find 144 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:35.039 that people are usually struggling with? James, the biggest thing that I see 145 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:41.909 company struggling with is naming the podcast after them self, and there are five 146 00:10:41.309 --> 00:10:46.629 common pitfalls that people want to name their show after they they're want to name 147 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:52.379 it after their company name, so just the sweetish media podcast being the example 148 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:56.460 there. They want to name it after their tagline, they want to name 149 00:10:56.460 --> 00:11:00.899 it after one of their core values or an amalgamation of their core values. 150 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.289 They want to name it after them self. So this is particularly relevant for 151 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.169 like consultants, to see a lot of people that are kind of Solo preneurs 152 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:15.690 or consultants that want to name their show after their own name. And then 153 00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:20.320 a lot of companies want to name their show after their own expertise. And 154 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.559 this is a mistake for a lot of different reasons, but it's a mistake 155 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:31.559 ultimately because it alien Hu from being able to connect with your ideal customer. 156 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:37.669 And who wants to be a guest on a show about something they know nothing 157 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.710 about? So if you were to ask me, Dan, if you were 158 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:46.149 to start, you know, the Seo podcast, and you were to reach 159 00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:48.740 out to me. And let's say you were an Seo consultant and you wanted 160 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:54.580 to do business with me because you worked with, you know, small growing 161 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:58.580 businesses and on the decisionmaker. So you reach out to me and say, 162 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:01.570 Hey, James, I want to feature you on the SEO podcast. I'm 163 00:12:01.570 --> 00:12:03.850 an entrepreneur and I'm a marketer, but I don't know anything about SEO. 164 00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:09.169 So by you naming your show around your expertise or, in your case Dan, 165 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:15.529 one of your expertises, then you're alienating yourself from being able to talk 166 00:12:15.529 --> 00:12:18.799 to your ideal clients, which, in this example, is me, and 167 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.720 I see this happening all the time. What it does is it ends up 168 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.559 mapping to you building an audience with all of your competitors, right, it's 169 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.070 your peers in the industry, right. So one of our one of our 170 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:35.029 customers, is Panda Doc. They're a cohost on one of our shows, 171 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:39.389 the BB sales show, and had they decided to not be a part of 172 00:12:39.429 --> 00:12:41.309 one of our collective shows, let's say that they had decided to start their 173 00:12:41.309 --> 00:12:46.700 own podcast and they built the show around proposals, which is what they do. 174 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:52.940 It's a software for sales proposals. Had they named their show around sales 175 00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:56.179 proposals. Who Do you think it's going to want to listen to that show? 176 00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:01.850 Other people that live and breathe sales proposals, which are their competitors. 177 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.690 You're going to have folks you know, let other other SASS companies that offer 178 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:11.169 proposal software are going to be listening to that show because it's all about sales 179 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:15.080 proposals. Most people, the VP's of sales that they're trying to attract, 180 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.720 don't think about sales proposals all day. It's a part of what they do, 181 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.279 for sure, and they certainly have to think about it, but nobody's 182 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.360 going to want to listen to an entire show about sales proposals. So instead 183 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.950 they said, hey, we want to be a part of the BB sales 184 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.909 show because that's more encompassing of what our ideal buyer is going to care about, 185 00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:39.230 and so it's much more strategic for Pandadoc to be a cohost on the 186 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:43.379 BB sales show than it is for them to start a podcast solely about sales 187 00:13:43.419 --> 00:13:46.460 proposals. It's too narrow, it's too specific. It's not going to attract 188 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.740 your ideal buyer. And if it does, or it's only going to attract 189 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.620 them for a limited amount of time, the amount of time that they're actually 190 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.289 maybe looking for sales proposal software, and that's just not what you want out 191 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:01.090 of your podcast you want. You want someone listening to your show for years. 192 00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:05.090 I mean with BB growth, we're in active deal cycles with people right 193 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:09.960 now that have been listening to our show for years and because we've built trust 194 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.759 with them over over time. Now that podcasts are really having a moment and 195 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.200 that people are really starting to take this platform seriously, especially with coded and 196 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.639 everything that's going on in the world, we are now. We're now top 197 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.669 of mine because we've been educating them about things far outside the scope of our 198 00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:30.470 expertise, which is be tob podcasting, for years and years and years. 199 00:14:30.549 --> 00:14:33.190 So they trust us. Now they're coming to us to actually do their podcast 200 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:35.990 for them. So those are the common mistakes. You do not want to 201 00:14:37.029 --> 00:14:41.620 name it after your company, your Tagline, your values, yourself or your 202 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:46.940 expertise. It's so funny because it's so counterintuitive. I mean you named your 203 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:50.860 website after you, you named your social media profiles after you. Why wouldn't 204 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:56.610 you name your podcast after you? But podcastings a little bit different in this 205 00:14:56.730 --> 00:15:00.169 regard because you're asking people to come on as guests, where you're usually not 206 00:15:00.330 --> 00:15:05.970 doing that as much in your blog or in your newsletter or on your website, 207 00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:09.000 like your show. If you're a guest base show like bb growth, 208 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.200 you're it's a totally different game. So you have to take different considerations into 209 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.720 account. So, now that we've kind of gone through some best practices and 210 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.950 some mistakes, can you give us the framework that you use at sweetfish media 211 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:26.750 to name shows? Yeah, so we've got a few different frameworks that we 212 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:33.429 use to name shows. One of the frameworks is your ideal buyers industry plus 213 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.379 your ideal buyers roll. So the example here would be the healthcare CFO show 214 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.980 or the healthcare CFO. The second framework would be your ideal buyers industry plus 215 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:48.980 a generic role, so this could be something like the oil and gas executive. 216 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.490 And another one that we don't use a lot, honestly, but it 217 00:15:52.730 --> 00:15:58.769 is something to consider when it works, it's how to plus what your ideal 218 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:03.649 buyer is responsible for doing, so something like how to sell homes if you 219 00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:07.159 were doing a podcast that wanted to attract real estate agents. So those are 220 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.639 good and I have them kind of in my mind, but give me some 221 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.519 examples to kind of like clarify what that means. So give me an example 222 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.480 of like your first option. Yeah, so the healthcare CFO. Right, 223 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:22.870 so you're covering your buyers industry, which is healthcare, and the person that 224 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:27.110 you're wanting to attract, which is CFO. You're doubling down on the niche. 225 00:16:27.470 --> 00:16:33.779 You could also do the CFO show and talk to a wide variety of 226 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:37.740 CFOs, but I think you'll probably get traction a little bit quicker with that 227 00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:44.139 double niche, and especially if you only care about reaching healthcare CFOs, then 228 00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:48.610 the Healthcare Cef oh show is is going to be fantastic for you. Another 229 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.889 framework that I think is is very authoritative and this would be this would be 230 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:59.970 a fourth framework, but it's the industry or category show. So we've used 231 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.840 this for the manufacturing show. We've got one of our customers that does the 232 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.920 customer experience podcast and with the customer experience podcast, was actually on site doing 233 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:14.599 a media day with another customer and he rolled up to the the office that 234 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.390 morning where we were going to be filming. He was like hey, guess 235 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:21.029 what, like on my way into the office I was searching for new podcasts 236 00:17:21.269 --> 00:17:26.150 and I typed in customer experience rants into apple podcast and look what popped up, 237 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:30.700 and he threw up on the screen in the office his phone so we 238 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.539 all could see it, and it was the customer experience podcast from our customer, 239 00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:38.539 bombomb, and all he did was search customer experience in Apple podcasts because 240 00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:45.450 that's the category that he was interested in learning more about that particular morning. 241 00:17:45.849 --> 00:17:48.730 That person it was a VP of marketing and a Tech Company. They are 242 00:17:48.769 --> 00:17:56.369 an ideal buyer for bombomb bombombs of video email platform where you can send one 243 00:17:56.450 --> 00:18:00.880 to one personal videos through email, and they did not do the video email 244 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:06.480 podcast because that guy would not have been searching video email on his way to 245 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.359 work out morning. He was searching customer experience. And so going back to 246 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:14.269 those common elements, thinking of a name that's authoritative, and I think I 247 00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:18.430 wonder if a lot of people stay away from this because of imposter syndrome, 248 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:22.950 like who am I to do the customer experience podcast? But when you think 249 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:26.140 about it, there's no there's no monopoly on these names, right. There's 250 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:32.380 no there's nobody out there saying like only oracle and only adobe and only the 251 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:37.180 massive brands can can own these names, especially in a platform that is rising 252 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:42.170 like podcasting right now, like there's so much availability and in terms of, 253 00:18:42.410 --> 00:18:45.930 you know, names that are that are out there. Let's capitalize on that 254 00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:51.609 in a two thousand and twenty environment before or every company on the planet has 255 00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:57.440 a show and get started and and own your piece of the landscape with a 256 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:03.039 really authoritative name. James, while you were talking, I pulled up research 257 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.240 survey that I just saw the other day and it says that of the seven 258 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:12.109 hundred eighty people who took the survey, forty percent prefer to search their listening 259 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:17.950 APPs directory to discover new podcast forty percent, Yep, that's not so. 260 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:19.829 That's a lot of people. It's a lot of people are just searching for 261 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:25.619 what they want in apple podcast or Google podcasts or a spotify, which means 262 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:29.900 seo kind of becomes a big deal when it comes to podcast in the best 263 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:33.460 way you to get the Seo is by naming your podcast after the thing number 264 00:19:33.500 --> 00:19:37.059 one ranking factor. I know it's the number one ranking factor. It's what's 265 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:40.289 going to pull up the thing that has led to the most growth with our 266 00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:42.650 show, with beaby growth to show that you're listening to right now. The 267 00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:47.849 number one way we've been able to grow the audience for this show is the 268 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:51.210 fact that we rank for the term be to be. So when you search 269 00:19:51.329 --> 00:19:55.319 be to be an apple podcasts, it fluctuates between one and two, but 270 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.519 we're either the first result or the second result when you search be to be 271 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:04.680 an apple podcast and you cannot understate how valuable that is, because there are 272 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:10.230 a lot of people searching be tob and when I look at shows that are 273 00:20:10.309 --> 00:20:15.029 just struggling to get traction, it is because they have failed to nay, 274 00:20:15.069 --> 00:20:18.150 name their show in such a way that is going to rank for something an 275 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:22.140 apple podcasts. And it doesn't. It doesn't necessarily mean that you know just 276 00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:26.579 because you name it. Maybe it's a very competitive space, maybe there are 277 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:30.740 other factors that apples looking at it does it. It's not necessarily a Shoein, 278 00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:33.259 but you're not even going to get the opportunity to sit at the table 279 00:20:34.099 --> 00:20:38.890 if your show is named around your company values or your company name. You're 280 00:20:38.930 --> 00:20:42.170 not even going to have a shot if you screw up the name and don't 281 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:48.809 and don't name it around the persona or the industry of your ideal buyer and 282 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.359 going back to the PANDADOC thing, like you could if they were to rank 283 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:59.160 for sales proposals. That's great, but again, who's listening to shows about 284 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.359 sales proposals? It's companies that live and breathe sales proposals, which are also 285 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.990 your competitors. So do you want to build an audience of your competitors or 286 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:10.589 do you want to build an audience of your ideal buyer? And so you 287 00:21:10.869 --> 00:21:15.430 need to be much more strategic whenever you're thinking through the name of your show. 288 00:21:15.750 --> 00:21:18.470 I think listening to this episode's going to help a ton. Yep, 289 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:21.700 you gave me one example before we jumped on the show that I'll give real 290 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:25.779 quick that, I think, really illustrates how far it should go. And 291 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:30.940 you talked about the innovative agency show. It is a podcast. Yeah, 292 00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:33.130 it's me, Si agees, just, yeah, it's just the innovative agency. 293 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:37.490 So no show at the end. So the innovative agency. Again, 294 00:21:37.529 --> 00:21:41.210 going back to that framework, innovative is the descriptor there. So it's the 295 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:47.680 innovative age agency. Who doesn't as an agency owner? WHO Does don't want 296 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:48.880 to be on a show? Who doesn't want to be featured on a show 297 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.920 called the innovative agency, because effectively it's then being able to tell their peers 298 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.359 whenever they go to promote the episode, I've been featured on the innovative agency. 299 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:02.190 Look, somebody thinks I'm innovative. So your potential customers that you're sending 300 00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:06.630 that you're sending that message to being featured on a show like the innovative agency 301 00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:10.710 is a is an egostroke. It makes you look awesome. But what's also 302 00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:11.990 interesting to me about that show, Dan, and I'm glad you brought this 303 00:22:12.069 --> 00:22:17.460 up, the woman that hosts it is an IP attorney. The name of 304 00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:21.859 her firm is legal and creative. She's an attorney, but she didn't do 305 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:25.819 the show about law because if she did a show about law, who would 306 00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:29.019 be listening to her show? Her peers, people that don't need her service 307 00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:33.970 because they're a lawyer themselves. So instead she flipped it and she said no, 308 00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:37.250 I'M gonna I serve agency owners. That's who she is an attorney for 309 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:42.329 and that's those are her sweet spot, ideal client. That's our agency owners. 310 00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:48.440 So she knows that if she names her show around that persona as opposed 311 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.200 to her own expertise. The show is going to have a much more strategic 312 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.359 benefit for her business because even if she doesn't rank for the term agency, 313 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.069 she's still attracting ideal clients as guests on her show and last time I looked, 314 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:06.029 I think she'd add seventy plus episodes, which means that's seventy plus interviews 315 00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:08.789 that she's done with people that could potentially turn into her clients. Yeah, 316 00:23:10.109 --> 00:23:12.900 I love that example because it really shows how far the framework can go, 317 00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.140 because even with us, to be to be growth. It's like sweet fish 318 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:19.500 media. Still, while we're a media company, we still provide marketing services. 319 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.819 So it's still to be to be company. So cut still kind of 320 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.059 makes sense. It's just broader than what we do. But in her example 321 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:32.210 she's she offers no creative services and in laws not innovative at all. In 322 00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:33.329 fact, you don't really want to be innovative with law. You want to 323 00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:37.609 stick to the precedent right and you want to be safe. So she's actually 324 00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:41.720 going a huge step away from what she actually does to serve and find an 325 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.640 attract the right audience that she can ben sell to. And think about think 326 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:48.759 about what that does. So whenever you hear that. I can imagine people 327 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:53.480 thinking, well, if I'm an attorney and not an agency owner, how 328 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.670 am I going to have a show that's all about being an innovative agency? 329 00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:03.630 And the answer is you don't. You put the bulk of the weight of 330 00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:07.470 the content on your guests, at least at first. So when I started 331 00:24:07.549 --> 00:24:11.140 be to be growth Dan, I was not about to be marketer. I 332 00:24:11.259 --> 00:24:15.140 didn't have a background in marketing. I didn't know the first thing about being 333 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:17.740 a baby marketer. Actually, when we started the show we thought it was 334 00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:21.900 going to be geared towards VP's of sales, because we thought everybody would see 335 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:26.769 the light on content based networking much sooner than they did. And and so 336 00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:29.210 I thought, Mayn VB's sales are going to use this and they're going to 337 00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:32.529 turn their SDRs in the cohosts of their company's podcasts and it's going to be 338 00:24:32.569 --> 00:24:34.569 awesome. Well, V piece of sales don't have budget for podcasting. So 339 00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:38.079 we ended up having to shift over to market and so a hundred and fifty 340 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:41.599 episodes and I said okay, I'm going to interview marketers instead of salespeople. 341 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.519 So the entire theme of the show changed. Fortunately, we didn't have to 342 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:49.200 change the name of the podcast, but the entire theme change and I had 343 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.430 to I had to learn, like I'd spend a hundred fifty episodes of learning 344 00:24:52.789 --> 00:24:56.309 how vpiece of sales talk, what they what they care about, what their 345 00:24:56.309 --> 00:25:00.829 challenges are, where they see o opportunities. And just as I was starting 346 00:25:00.869 --> 00:25:04.509 to get comfortable with that lingo and starting to sound like a peer on the 347 00:25:04.630 --> 00:25:08.299 phone with them, now I just switch it again. But I was able 348 00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:12.460 to do it because when you're interviewing the people that do have that expertise, 349 00:25:12.500 --> 00:25:18.019 all you have to do is sit back and extract that knowledge and overtime it 350 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.259 doesn't you know, I'm dense. So it doesn't take a hundred and fifty 351 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:26.890 episodes. You do fib or ten episodes with your ideal client. And how 352 00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:32.609 much better of a business does that create? Whenever you now intimately know your 353 00:25:32.690 --> 00:25:36.200 buyer, you know it's keeping them up at night, you know what they're 354 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:42.279 challenged by, you know what they're excited about, and it aligns you to 355 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:48.799 your buyer in such a powerful way whenever they are really the crux, they're 356 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:53.670 the center point of your content strategy, because you literally can't you can't know 357 00:25:53.950 --> 00:25:57.589 all there is to know about their expertise, because your expertise is something entirely 358 00:25:57.630 --> 00:26:03.990 different. But that brings this beautiful alignment whenever, whenever you brand your show 359 00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:07.940 that that way. Yeah, man, I've loved the content of this episode. 360 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:10.779 It's been needed to be recorded for a while and I can't wait. 361 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:15.339 I wanted to do one last thing before we've close out, though, and 362 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:18.849 that's cover some of the objections, at least that I've heard, when it 363 00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:22.289 comes to naming your show this way. Again, it's so counterintuitive and even 364 00:26:22.329 --> 00:26:26.130 after hearing some of the arguments we've made, there's some common objections that I 365 00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:27.930 hear, like yes, but what about this? What about that? So 366 00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:30.289 let's go through some of those, and I want to I wanted to ask 367 00:26:30.329 --> 00:26:33.240 you personally, because I actually don't know the answer to some of the objections. 368 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.400 And then, too, I just think it'll be helpful not only for 369 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.000 our own customers but for the rest of the community out there to fully understand 370 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:47.829 the framework. Despite these these shortcoming or apparent shortcomings. First is the first 371 00:26:47.869 --> 00:26:51.109 one I hear is well, that sounds to generic, James. Why should 372 00:26:51.109 --> 00:26:52.630 I call mine that? It's not memorable. It's not going to stand out. 373 00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:57.829 Yeah, so I would say it goes back to search. So you 374 00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:00.859 don't want to over index on search, right. You don't want to. 375 00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:04.660 You don't want to only consider search. You've also got to consider brand as 376 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:08.779 well. But with the podcast channel, like you said, forty percent of 377 00:27:08.859 --> 00:27:14.180 people say that they found shows based on searching things and apple podcasts. Now 378 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.930 I don't know what the other sixty percent is. It's probably, you know, 379 00:27:17.009 --> 00:27:19.089 a collection of a lot of different things. Hearing people talk about a 380 00:27:19.250 --> 00:27:22.690 particular show would be a big one. I think word of mouth is big 381 00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:26.130 with podcasting. But forty percent of big number and and that's really interesting. 382 00:27:26.210 --> 00:27:32.000 So if it means being a little generic in order to capture that search, 383 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.519 then awesome. The other thing that I think generic is synonymous with is authority. 384 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.319 I think one could say it's too generic and I would say it's authoritative, 385 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.869 and so you got to trust your gun on that. And and really 386 00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:49.029 the challenge you thinking, is this generic or is it authoritative? Yeah, 387 00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:52.869 and so closely aligned with that, they I've offered been heard like it's not 388 00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:56.109 creative enough, and what I think they mean by creative enough was it's not 389 00:27:56.190 --> 00:28:02.140 very it's just not very fun. Yeah, so I think fun is the 390 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:07.140 killer of a good name, a strategic name, I should say. Now. 391 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:08.420 You can overcome this, you know. I was I was listening to 392 00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:12.170 one of our one of our sales calls on chorus the other day and we 393 00:28:12.289 --> 00:28:15.490 had a customer where Logan was talking through the naming strategy and they said, 394 00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:19.410 well, you know, drift has done it with seeking wisdom. And Yeah, 395 00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.569 drift was able to do it. Drift also raised like a hundred and 396 00:28:22.650 --> 00:28:29.839 twenty million dollars and they put out an enormous they're very much a marketing organization 397 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.799 that have a big marketing team. They're spending lots of dollars in putting on 398 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.519 those hypergrowth events and put doing the I see them all over instagram. I 399 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:42.990 mean they're spending an enormous amount of money and advertising and getting exposure for their 400 00:28:44.109 --> 00:28:47.910 brand. They've got a massive email list, their product has a ton of 401 00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:53.230 users. So them starting a show called seeking wisdom, which is very broad 402 00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:59.220 and is not necessarily, you know, of their industry or category, that 403 00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.140 worked for them because they're raised a lot of money and they did a really 404 00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:04.740 good job of building brand. So I'm not saying that what we're saying here 405 00:29:04.819 --> 00:29:08.019 is the only way to go. But you have to be honest with yourself. 406 00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:11.329 Are we going to spend the kind of money that drift is spending on 407 00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:15.049 promoting our show? And if not, then we probably need to be thinking 408 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.890 about it in a more strategic way. So that's that's what I would say. 409 00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:23.289 They're the next one I hear is that the show name, if it's 410 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.759 too generic, it doesn't connect people to what we actually do. Yeah, 411 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.640 and I would say that's a great thing. You actually don't want the show 412 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.119 to be about you, like Donald Millar, so those all the time. 413 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.200 You don't want to be the hero of your own story. You want your 414 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.829 customer to be the hero of your story. And so had we named our 415 00:29:40.869 --> 00:29:45.710 show the BB podcasting show or sweetish media podcast, it wouldn't it wouldn't be 416 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:51.190 getting a hundred to a hundred and twenty thousand downloads month because nobody cares about 417 00:29:51.269 --> 00:29:53.180 not that that many people care about to be podcasting and not that many people 418 00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:56.059 care about sweetish media. And so, because we needed it be to be 419 00:29:56.180 --> 00:30:00.099 growth, be to be growth being something that people are very interested in, 420 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:07.529 just just a much wider net to attract potential buyers. Way More people are 421 00:30:07.809 --> 00:30:11.849 interested in your industry then they are your specific expertise, and so you want 422 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:17.650 to go after that instead of being far too narrow and only attracting people that 423 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:21.440 maybe happened to be in market right now now. The beautiful thing, and 424 00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:23.079 something we don't talk a lot about and we don't need to go on too 425 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.119 much of a rabbit show here, but you can always have a series within 426 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.559 your show that's about your expertise. So literally, you're listening to it right 427 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.359 now. This episode in BB growth is in the how to podcast series. 428 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.950 So we're talking about something very specific to our expertise and at the beginning of 429 00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:42.150 the headline we're putting in Hashtag how to podcast. So that's a great way 430 00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:49.819 to integrate and connect your expertise into your show without necessarily naming your show that 431 00:30:51.099 --> 00:30:55.059 thing. So we were talking to you one of our customers the other day 432 00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:00.940 and he's like, man, we could go after asset managers or property managers, 433 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:03.970 and they do. Prop Tech is kind of the industry and they were 434 00:31:04.009 --> 00:31:08.490 thinking about, you know, a name around prop tech and the ideal listeners 435 00:31:08.529 --> 00:31:12.609 either an asset manager or a property manager, and Logan was like, well, 436 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:17.130 what if? What if the name was multi family, because multifamily sits 437 00:31:17.329 --> 00:31:21.359 above both of those things. It can be attractive to an asset manager and 438 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:26.759 it can be attractive to a property manager and they can have a series within 439 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:32.799 the multifamily show that is Hashtag prop tech, and so you can get creative 440 00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:37.789 with how you incorporate your expertise into the show without actually naming the podcast in 441 00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:41.269 a way that's detrimental to you long term. And the last question I have 442 00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:45.589 for you is, what do you do if there's already names out there that 443 00:31:45.670 --> 00:31:48.579 are generic? So you want the CIO show, but there's already the CIO 444 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:55.579 podcast, the and the CIO how to be a ceio or something like that. 445 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:57.019 Like what do you do when there's already kind of names out there in 446 00:31:57.140 --> 00:32:01.049 the space and you you can find one that's different than them, but they're 447 00:32:01.130 --> 00:32:05.970 they're pretty bunch of the same. I would say be better than those shows. 448 00:32:06.569 --> 00:32:09.369 Have a better have better cover art. Get more ratings on your show. 449 00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:13.730 TAP every single one year. Employees, all you know, you get 450 00:32:13.809 --> 00:32:16.480 your customers, get your referral partners, get your family, your friends, 451 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:21.279 get everybody you know. Leaving a review for that show. Do better content, 452 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.279 have better interviews, be more thoughtful in the way you ask questions, 453 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.880 be more strategic in the guests that you bring on. Be Better, is 454 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.750 what I would say. They're but don't, don't let that be a deterrent 455 00:32:30.829 --> 00:32:36.029 for going after a great name. Perfect well, James, thank you so 456 00:32:36.150 --> 00:32:38.910 much for illuminating this topic for us, helping US understand what it takes to 457 00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:46.059 win with the podcast name. One of the things we've learned about podcast audience 458 00:32:46.099 --> 00:32:51.660 growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. 459 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:53.740 So, if you love this show, would be awesome if you texted 460 00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:58.059 a friend to tell them about it, and if you send me a text 461 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.410 with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend, Metta, I 462 00:33:00.569 --> 00:33:04.970 know I'll send you a copy of my book content based networking, how to 463 00:33:05.049 --> 00:33:07.970 instantly connect with anyone you want to know my cell phone numbers. Four hundred 464 00:33:08.009 --> 00:33:13.640 seven, four nine hundred, three hundred and three two eight. Happy texting. 465 -->