How to Target Multiple Stakeholders In a Single Account

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.340 --> 00:00:09.190 welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with Sweet Fish Media, and 2 00:00:09.200 --> 00:00:12.560 I'm continuing the journey into account based marketing, which I've said that 3 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:17.370 so many times now that it's becoming just part of my my intro to every 4 00:00:17.370 --> 00:00:21.120 single show. I've learned a lot about account based marketing, and now I'm 5 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:25.350 starting to dive into the nuances and some of the nitty gritty of account 6 00:00:25.350 --> 00:00:29.080 based marketing. I'm starting to dig a little bit deeper than your the broad 7 00:00:29.090 --> 00:00:33.090 you know, team framework. I understand a lot about targeting and engaging and 8 00:00:33.090 --> 00:00:36.960 activating and measuring after talking to so many amazing experts and 9 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:41.970 practitioners in the A B M space. And today I'm excited to talk with Dmitry 10 00:00:41.970 --> 00:00:47.420 Lyski, who is the CEO of In, flew to specifically to talk to him about how 11 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:52.710 his product works in a B M, but also to talk about some nuances that air new to 12 00:00:52.710 --> 00:00:58.990 me as a newbie to be marketer around how to target. Uh, not just individuals 13 00:00:58.990 --> 00:01:02.880 within an account, because we all know we need to find the main decision maker, 14 00:01:02.890 --> 00:01:07.110 but how to go about getting farther into the account, how to target 15 00:01:07.110 --> 00:01:10.810 multiple key stakeholders within an account in order to win an account over 16 00:01:10.810 --> 00:01:14.650 effectively. So Dimitri's going to talk to us about that. But before we do, 17 00:01:14.940 --> 00:01:18.500 Dmitry, I'd love to learn a little bit more about what you and the team over 18 00:01:18.500 --> 00:01:23.160 in flew to have been up to these days. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, So 19 00:01:23.160 --> 00:01:28.050 we, you know, like in photo is the first person based advertising platform. 20 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:33.610 So we basically deliver ads to specific decision makers, as you mentioned, and 21 00:01:33.620 --> 00:01:37.200 yeah, I think currently we are in very interesting transition. First weekend 22 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:41.020 of each patient kind of tremendous growth. We're growing faster than it 23 00:01:41.020 --> 00:01:46.200 would be for the lock down started. But also, we see a lot of demand from from 24 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:50.790 our current clients toe expand, offering toe, make it, you know, to 25 00:01:50.790 --> 00:01:55.120 apply the same person based approach to other elements of IBM. So we kind of 26 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.160 now building the product toe, enable them to do like, person based marking. 27 00:01:59.740 --> 00:02:04.010 Fantastic. So I'd like to dive more into this now, like, why do you think 28 00:02:04.010 --> 00:02:08.130 it's important for marketers to target multiple stakeholders within an account 29 00:02:08.139 --> 00:02:11.730 like, obviously, like multiple people have to make the decision, and that's 30 00:02:11.730 --> 00:02:16.110 great. But what are we leaving on the table if we only target the one person, 31 00:02:16.110 --> 00:02:22.150 the main person versus multiple people? Absolutely. So I think you know, if you 32 00:02:22.160 --> 00:02:26.390 if you consider a bm idea, I think the idea of a compass marching is great. 33 00:02:26.390 --> 00:02:31.810 And the idea is you want to go after specific dream accounts and in order to 34 00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:37.010 win them, you want toe marking folks toe to talk to these people. And and 35 00:02:37.010 --> 00:02:43.010 then the challenge with this idea is that it's still not well targeted 36 00:02:43.010 --> 00:02:47.770 enough. So if you consider Microsoft allow this example, obviously, if you 37 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:51.560 want to be Microsoft, IBM says you want to go after Microsoft specific and 38 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.430 build the marketing campaigns to target these people. But then there are 39 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:58.610 160,000 people working for this company, and then what kind of program you're 40 00:02:58.610 --> 00:03:05.130 gonna run still very broad audience. And then if our idea ties back toe, you 41 00:03:05.130 --> 00:03:08.480 know what? Syria's decision, not Forrester, promoted the idea of buying 42 00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:13.430 team. So there are very specific set of people like 20 people, 30 people who 43 00:03:13.430 --> 00:03:18.760 really, you know, make decision toe by or violating a product and you want to 44 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:22.980 talk to this specific people, not somebody in Microsoft. And also you 45 00:03:22.980 --> 00:03:26.870 wanted to be 100% sure if you're reaching these people and then if 46 00:03:26.870 --> 00:03:29.760 you're reaching them, you want to know who are reaching and then what was 47 00:03:29.760 --> 00:03:32.940 engagement? And so I actually want to know what happened next. So it makes a 48 00:03:32.940 --> 00:03:35.760 lot of sense. I wish I would have thought about it before, but I could 49 00:03:35.760 --> 00:03:40.370 say, as I'm starting to build my own A B M campaign for Sweet Fish Media. I've 50 00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:45.130 really only considered targeting the main decision maker, which is VPs of 51 00:03:45.130 --> 00:03:50.020 marketing. That's like R one R one person that we target. And I'm like, I 52 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:54.500 know it's more than the VP that's gonna be making the decision, actually don't 53 00:03:54.510 --> 00:03:58.930 know who exactly it is, which is funny, because I speak to multiple teams 54 00:03:58.930 --> 00:04:02.010 before I'm like, Who else is usually on this calls and usually like head of 55 00:04:02.010 --> 00:04:05.410 content? Sometimes the CEO is on the call. It ends up being different people 56 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:09.970 for us each time, but there's usually a group of three, sometimes four people, 57 00:04:09.970 --> 00:04:14.500 as as we at sweet fish land, land accounts and bring them in. What would 58 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:18.700 I need to get started in order to think through how to target? Ah, whole 59 00:04:18.700 --> 00:04:24.300 account rather than just the main decision maker. Well, I think you still 60 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:29.750 want to consider specific personas or so Yeah, we see it again. Like a zoo 61 00:04:29.750 --> 00:04:33.360 said, like, we see it over and over again across all clients in our own, 62 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.060 you know, dimension or a B M effort. So you target one person, and then 63 00:04:38.440 --> 00:04:41.550 typically it's kind of subordinate comes in. So, like you can target VP 64 00:04:41.550 --> 00:04:44.100 marketing and then you see marketing manager, you know, a village in your 65 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:48.100 product. So definitely people talk to each other. And there's huge value of 66 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:51.700 talking to multiple people inside the same organization, you know, like it 67 00:04:51.700 --> 00:04:55.640 can actually, it works both ways, So sometimes you target toe decision maker 68 00:04:55.640 --> 00:04:58.900 and then the person just ask that there's, you know, Calixto related 69 00:04:58.900 --> 00:05:04.170 products sometimes just toe connect kind of mid level person, and then they 70 00:05:04.170 --> 00:05:08.020 just, you know, become a champion and then promote the city. A tow the senior. 71 00:05:08.030 --> 00:05:12.970 So, yeah, that was great. But then you still want to make sure that you talk 72 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:15.770 to the right people. I mean, like, you don't want to work to talkto software 73 00:05:15.770 --> 00:05:19.940 developers clients or you don't want to talk to the studios or general counsel. 74 00:05:19.940 --> 00:05:23.490 I mean, like, you might want toe do it at some stage, but definitely not the 75 00:05:23.490 --> 00:05:27.580 early stage. So you still want to be very mindful about who you're talking 76 00:05:27.580 --> 00:05:33.830 toe? And then obviously, the best way is toe kind of doing research across 77 00:05:33.830 --> 00:05:38.650 your existing clients and see how your past deals. Well, so it's, you know? 78 00:05:38.650 --> 00:05:43.090 Okay, I talked to counter marketers and and then I talked to marching directors. 79 00:05:43.090 --> 00:05:47.490 And then I talked about with the marching and sometimes you also, this 80 00:05:47.490 --> 00:05:51.360 is like, I think the whole idea of a B M is actually talking to ourselves 81 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:56.450 people. So you want to connect with your sales team and then see how the 82 00:05:56.460 --> 00:06:00.730 you know the dynamics of the past deals and existing deals, and they will tell 83 00:06:00.730 --> 00:06:04.830 you exactly what kind of people that took into Sometimes you can come out 84 00:06:04.830 --> 00:06:09.260 like in our case, we have seen many cases when the sales people off our 85 00:06:09.260 --> 00:06:13.690 clients help us to build this relation with marketing teams because they got 86 00:06:13.690 --> 00:06:17.720 the value of a product faster than marketing team sometimes. So, yeah, it 87 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:21.710 could be very different rules. But you have. You still want to be very precise 88 00:06:21.710 --> 00:06:26.140 in terms off what personas you're going after. And then, obviously this 89 00:06:26.140 --> 00:06:29.560 conversion to specific list of people you want to go after you want to know 90 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:34.380 where talking to. Yep. So what I'm hearing is that one we need to identify 91 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:37.490 what those other people are. And the people that are most likely to tell us 92 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:41.660 with pretty pretty strong authority are just sales. Go talk to sales. Find out 93 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:44.830 who the other decision makers are. They're the ones usually having to 94 00:06:44.830 --> 00:06:49.340 engage with them, probably also good to know what their those other decision 95 00:06:49.340 --> 00:06:53.190 makers stances are. I'm sure there's like in some buying sessions there's 96 00:06:53.190 --> 00:06:57.470 going to be like the naysayers like, Oh, this person's always giving us a hard 97 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:01.060 time, you know, there's probably certain things are similarities. I 98 00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:03.840 noticed you called them personas when we first started. I think that's 99 00:07:03.840 --> 00:07:07.210 helpful to think about it like a persona if you know you're selling to 100 00:07:07.210 --> 00:07:11.860 CMOS about this tech product. But the CTO is always giving you a hard time. 101 00:07:11.870 --> 00:07:15.980 You know, it's good to know that the CTO is always going to be pushing back 102 00:07:15.980 --> 00:07:19.180 and having a persona that's built so that we can address that with the 103 00:07:19.180 --> 00:07:22.800 marketing. So Okay, so that's what we need to get started. Is having a 104 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.350 realist having a good understanding of what people there are included in 105 00:07:26.350 --> 00:07:30.410 making the decision. What some factors about them, What does it look like to 106 00:07:30.410 --> 00:07:36.340 fully engage them all throughout the funnel? I know you run an ad company 107 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:39.720 that helps target them, but what are some other ways? In addition, Toe adds 108 00:07:39.730 --> 00:07:43.660 that we can actually target all these personas now that we understand them. 109 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:48.370 Yeah, absolutely. So I think I think even before you you consider doing even 110 00:07:48.370 --> 00:07:51.570 advertising. Obviously, advertising is a great starting point to build 111 00:07:51.570 --> 00:07:55.360 awareness and to create some initial engagements because, you know, 112 00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.120 advertising seeds like it's probably the least intrusive way to connect to 113 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.040 people. Right? So, like people, serializing president busy there, You 114 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:09.030 know, day today, you know, jobs and they so they have spare time toe scroll 115 00:08:09.030 --> 00:08:12.310 the Facebook feed or, you know, read some news. And that's the moment when 116 00:08:12.310 --> 00:08:15.920 you connect them, but obviously want to continue with this after you have some 117 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:19.650 initial engagements and they see a lot of different playbooks across different 118 00:08:19.650 --> 00:08:24.750 clients. So and that that really ranges and really depends on your, you know, 119 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:30.630 potential ticket and also the playbook and the messaging you build around. So 120 00:08:30.650 --> 00:08:35.960 we have seen clients who used the person basically realizing toe promote 121 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:40.720 the webinars or actual dinner. So it's not possible right now, but hopefully 122 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:46.770 they'll become possible by soon. So so they built this kind off. Dinner's off 123 00:08:46.780 --> 00:08:51.010 the key people across the different clients and then the president some 124 00:08:51.010 --> 00:08:56.960 content. So it was kind of live event eso obviously webinars and this kind of 125 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.490 things, obviously direct mailing. It's like it sounds like in very old school 126 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.330 technique, but it works amazingly well. I mean, and it's not down world. It 127 00:09:05.330 --> 00:09:09.110 requires some additional effort. But if it's done right, it really provides a 128 00:09:09.110 --> 00:09:13.430 lot of engagements for advance. And then it's not. I don't I don't One 129 00:09:13.430 --> 00:09:18.680 important thing is that this journey is not really. Finally, I think you want 130 00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:22.760 to go back to advertising or continue advertising while doing this other 131 00:09:22.760 --> 00:09:26.790 elements, so I think a lot of market. Just talk about multiplies approach 132 00:09:26.790 --> 00:09:30.460 where you do multiple things simultaneously and trying to connect to 133 00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:34.930 different people simultaneously because that's what creates this momentum. And 134 00:09:34.940 --> 00:09:38.180 you can have talks through different channels and obviously want to be 135 00:09:38.180 --> 00:09:42.260 relevant to the channels on. Then you build this kind of program, and the 136 00:09:42.260 --> 00:09:47.220 great thing about person based, that is it you can leverage results off. For 137 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:50.400 example, if somebody clicks sanitizing, it's okay for those who click my 138 00:09:50.400 --> 00:09:55.040 advertising about to send a gift or vice versa, I want to say, Okay, those 139 00:09:55.040 --> 00:10:00.740 who visit my webinar recently only this specific people I want to, you know, 140 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:04.600 toe promote this another piece of kind of amazing country that they have. So 141 00:10:04.610 --> 00:10:08.240 you want to. It's not just multiplies, but then you want to make it super 142 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:13.210 coordinated. Orchestrated. Well, so it connects to the experience. So I 143 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:18.380 imagine when you're targeting like this, each account probably has at least the 144 00:10:18.380 --> 00:10:22.250 main person you're going after. They probably have a subordinate that you 145 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:26.070 want to target and maybe someone above them you want to target and then 146 00:10:26.070 --> 00:10:29.940 probably like someone on a peer level that's in a closely related but 147 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:33.940 different department that's still gonna have to get some input. Like, how are 148 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:37.530 you targeting these people differently? Like with direct mail. Like, what would 149 00:10:37.530 --> 00:10:41.040 you change? I can think of like ways. I would even target these VPs of 150 00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:43.890 marketing I want to reach out to as maybe I've started to form a 151 00:10:43.890 --> 00:10:46.820 relationship with them. But then what do you like in direct mail? What would 152 00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:51.860 I do differently to engage these other stakeholders? Yeah. So the way we think 153 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:59.270 about it is that it's so I mean, like, the choice off channel is not e mean. 154 00:10:59.280 --> 00:11:02.790 It's very different to the choice of message. So you want to have your 155 00:11:02.790 --> 00:11:06.740 message consistent for the same persona, right? So, like, for example, if you if 156 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:10.730 CEO is a gatekeeper for you, you want to have a separate gatekeeper 157 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:15.090 multiplies campaign where you will, you know, explain to sitios why your 158 00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:20.560 product is great. Technically no hustle, you know, to connect, you know, easy to 159 00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:25.170 use whatever concerns my day. So So this is about messaging, right? So you 160 00:11:25.170 --> 00:11:28.640 want to have this message consistent across different channels and then 161 00:11:28.650 --> 00:11:32.810 obviously, when it comes to drag mailing. The choice of message is what 162 00:11:32.810 --> 00:11:36.100 it made. Okay, so you for this type of person, I want to have this kind of 163 00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:41.430 message on. Then you basically repeat the same message in advertising, for 164 00:11:41.430 --> 00:11:46.320 example, And and also, I think one channel e mean like e think this is the 165 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.970 most important one of the most important ones. And I did mention 166 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:54.740 Chelsea, Um, so what really would really see across across different 167 00:11:54.750 --> 00:11:59.190 clients is that they obviously sells people. It's kind of different 168 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:03.390 organizations. They have golden goals started this, but the same time to talk 169 00:12:03.390 --> 00:12:08.390 to a clearance and talk to the prospects. And you want to make sure 170 00:12:08.390 --> 00:12:12.280 that cells special cells development people, this is also are sitting like 171 00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:15.880 in the top of the funnel. You want to have very consistent message between 172 00:12:15.890 --> 00:12:20.360 advertising, you know, other marketing channels and self development effort, 173 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:23.920 which, by the way, is not owned by marketing. Many organizations so self 174 00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:28.670 development in many companies sit under sales organization. But you still want 175 00:12:28.670 --> 00:12:34.380 to have this consistency, right? So So this is super important. And internally, 176 00:12:34.380 --> 00:12:37.810 we we actually connected. So we we learned from our customers and we try 177 00:12:37.810 --> 00:12:43.200 to run as much as possible. So internally we have marketing a compass, 178 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.290 marketing people and self development people sitting inside the same 179 00:12:46.290 --> 00:12:50.110 organization called Growth. So you want to have this kind of growth functions 180 00:12:50.110 --> 00:12:55.290 focused on top of the final opportunities. Working is one team. But 181 00:12:55.290 --> 00:12:59.590 even if it's not the case, obviously you want to have this great consistency 182 00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:04.350 for different personas across different channels, including Seller, a za 183 00:13:04.350 --> 00:13:08.260 marketer. You're probably brainstorming outside the box ideas to engage your 184 00:13:08.260 --> 00:13:11.640 prospects and customers working remotely. And you've probably thought 185 00:13:11.640 --> 00:13:15.550 about sending them direct mail to break through the zoom fatigue. 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Um, to claim your personalized gift, go to craft, um dot 195 00:13:51.890 --> 00:13:53.460 io slash growth. 196 00:13:55.020 --> 00:13:58.770 All right, so my hearing you're right and that you want to keep the messaging 197 00:13:58.770 --> 00:14:02.650 similar across all the different personas Or do you want to tweak it 198 00:14:02.650 --> 00:14:06.470 somewhat, depending on the ways they operate, the ways they think the way 199 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:10.930 they perceive the product or service you're trying to bring in? Yeah, I 200 00:14:10.930 --> 00:14:13.810 think you have. You want to have message consistent across different 201 00:14:13.810 --> 00:14:18.150 channels, how you deliver, like direct mail advertising sells about people 202 00:14:18.160 --> 00:14:22.810 Should talkto should deliver the same message. Same idea to the same person. 203 00:14:22.810 --> 00:14:25.000 But we definitely want to have different messages for different 204 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.720 personas. Obviously speaking about your situation, obviously, like gatekeepers 205 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:34.000 like Serios or, you know, legal team are more concerned about technical 206 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:38.670 stuff or, you know, compliance and then marking People are more concerned about 207 00:14:38.680 --> 00:14:43.510 value off your product or service. So I think, and these are different messages, 208 00:14:43.520 --> 00:14:46.460 very different ones. So you want to have the same message for the same 209 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:51.750 persona across different channels. I can't even think now if I were doing 210 00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:55.850 direct mail or even running ads and you could sink these two up. I imagine 211 00:14:55.850 --> 00:14:59.860 these different personas would have different obstacles, different 212 00:14:59.870 --> 00:15:03.190 questions they have, and you could target them with different kinds of 213 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:07.920 content, Right? E was even having ah, great, a great club house session. Not 214 00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:11.420 sure to call those, but I was having a meeting on clubhouse with a bunch of 215 00:15:11.420 --> 00:15:14.330 different B two B marketing leaders. We're hearing from Joel trying Remember 216 00:15:14.330 --> 00:15:21.400 goals. Last name. I think it's Kettle who runs a company that helps you build 217 00:15:21.410 --> 00:15:26.240 testimonials and customer stories and ah, lot of them so that you can 218 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.590 actually target the right person with the right story because, like if you if 219 00:15:30.590 --> 00:15:34.150 the CEO was a stakeholder but not your main decision maker, you might want to 220 00:15:34.150 --> 00:15:37.490 send them a testimonial from another CEO of a customer that you've had that 221 00:15:37.490 --> 00:15:42.750 has a rate that addresses most. The common objections that a CEO has, right? 222 00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:46.370 That's gonna be much more targeted, content to that CEO. But if you sent 223 00:15:46.370 --> 00:15:50.020 that same thing to the VP of marketing in my case, let's just not gonna 224 00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:54.860 resonate as much Trump Trump So customizing the content to some degree 225 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.820 um, that would be interesting to think about. One thing remember you mentioned 226 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:05.300 even in our pre interview was that you want to target, not just target the 227 00:16:05.300 --> 00:16:09.660 personas differently, but target them all, not just based on persona, but 228 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:13.320 based on stage of funnel. So can you tell us a little bit about like, how? 229 00:16:13.330 --> 00:16:17.020 How does that work? Do you try to keep them on the same line of the funnel as 230 00:16:17.020 --> 00:16:20.980 each one goes down? Or do you have just deal with them all separately, based on 231 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:26.560 their own journeys? It really depends on the playbook. Eso I can tell what we 232 00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:31.320 do ourselves actually way believe in a B m so much that we use it for. And 233 00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:35.290 basically, this is the only customer position general for us. We we only we 234 00:16:35.290 --> 00:16:39.490 only use a bmt acquiring customers. Yeah, So the way it works for us, we we 235 00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:43.830 have different messages for different stages of the final. And by the way, 236 00:16:43.830 --> 00:16:48.880 it's like not a lot off effort from from marketing team, because what the 237 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:53.420 baby handle this is that once the the opportunity moves from one stage of the 238 00:16:53.420 --> 00:16:57.360 found another stage of the final the campaign switching down to medical by 239 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.520 the software. So we we don't need toe, you know, too many only make the 240 00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:04.359 decision. Yeah, so definitely you want to have different messages because we 241 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.420 start from saying and like explaining the like value of our product, Right? 242 00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:10.849 So, like, top of the final opportunity, just need to understand what we do, 243 00:17:10.849 --> 00:17:16.740 what we are. And then once somebody you know started engaging and we see like 244 00:17:16.740 --> 00:17:20.210 they started responding to ourselves development, outreach, and they can 245 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:25.040 open to have a conversation. But like we do two things. One thing, obviously 246 00:17:25.040 --> 00:17:29.840 we want to expand to their colleagues. So we we expanded the buying team. But 247 00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:34.000 also we make this demo. We make our value prop even more personalized so 248 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.180 they can actually experience it. Works almost like a demo off, operate for 249 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:43.800 them and then once you know, sells people jumping. So once they moved toe 250 00:17:43.810 --> 00:17:48.960 kind of so SQL stage where we have self qualified lead and then we have started 251 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:54.200 really sales conversation. We stop explaining the value operate because I 252 00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:58.820 think they got it already. And then at this stage, we switch to other elements 253 00:17:58.820 --> 00:18:02.760 off sales process and marketing. People don't stop talking. They just switch 254 00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:08.770 the message. At this stage, we we speak about why are companies is reliable 255 00:18:08.770 --> 00:18:12.930 vendor for them. You know who are other customers who use our product? What 256 00:18:12.940 --> 00:18:17.570 case studies? So it's less about explaining what we do more about, you 257 00:18:17.570 --> 00:18:21.800 know, showing other like evidence that other customers using a product 258 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:27.250 successfully or explaining the momentum behind the companies. So it's kind of 259 00:18:27.250 --> 00:18:34.080 more trust focused messages. All right is people try Thio do this and your 260 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.490 customers try to think through like, Okay, I'm gonna target multiple people 261 00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:41.210 with an account rather than just the one persona. What are common mistakes? 262 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:45.740 They run into that. Keep them from doing it? Well, well, I think the real 263 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:50.240 challenges that actually to find the right way, the right software and the 264 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.140 right solution to do this because I think it's relatively easy to do it 265 00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:57.120 when you just consider email, for example. So obviously, the way you 266 00:18:57.120 --> 00:18:59.790 handle this, you just have different, like you split people in different 267 00:18:59.790 --> 00:19:02.940 lists, and then you just handle. It's a different marketing campaigns or have 268 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.950 support campaigns, which is kind of easy, part it is. The tough part is 269 00:19:06.950 --> 00:19:12.270 devising because, you know, like if you use a B M products then typically only 270 00:19:12.270 --> 00:19:16.460 have the same message for the same account so you can display this inside 271 00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:18.710 the account. So actually, this is the reason why we built in for two is 272 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:21.710 because you believe that you want to have different messages for different 273 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.730 people in the same account. So we kind of tried to solve this problem and 274 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:30.940 towards scrutinized another. Another challenge is that I think what we see 275 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:33.640 across different clients is that they sometimes they just don't have this 276 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.290 person a split it all. So they just, you know, send the same message to 277 00:19:37.290 --> 00:19:41.910 everybody, or they might even define some personas. But still, there is no 278 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.850 clear messaging for for every person. And so they say, Okay, we just want to 279 00:19:45.850 --> 00:19:49.430 customize it to mention that you know that I think it's more about 280 00:19:49.430 --> 00:19:53.700 customization than just making it relevant for these people. So we really 281 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:57.220 believe that personalization is not about, you know, make mention the 282 00:19:57.220 --> 00:20:02.660 person's name. Obviously you want Thio connect on dso to kind of make it like 283 00:20:02.660 --> 00:20:07.990 a personal feel, A message But the main think about personalization is to make 284 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:12.000 it relevant for people, right? So if you send the message that clearly 285 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.130 speaks to the need of this person, this is the main, you know, objective 286 00:20:15.130 --> 00:20:18.040 representation effort. And sometimes it's easier to the way, the way. So, 287 00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:22.770 like the real personalization where you mentioned the person's name inside 288 00:20:22.770 --> 00:20:27.780 email, it's easier. But inside dozens my charter and or the landing page or 289 00:20:27.790 --> 00:20:31.570 these kind of things. I think these are tricks that don't provide a lot of 290 00:20:31.570 --> 00:20:34.780 value versus if you just around different campaigns for different 291 00:20:34.780 --> 00:20:38.840 personas. And this campaign is Super Ellen. For this type of person off this 292 00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:43.570 type of, you know, stage of development, your final, then it can learn so much 293 00:20:43.570 --> 00:20:46.700 better because it just speaks to the right needs, right? So personalization 294 00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:50.570 is less about making like field personalized. It's more about being 295 00:20:50.570 --> 00:20:55.680 relevant. Makes sense. And I think even I'm as you're talking, I'm trying to 296 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.530 think of like, Okay, how am I going to execute this? A sweet fish media? And 297 00:20:58.530 --> 00:21:01.460 so this is kind of what I have in my mind. You could tell me if I'm on the 298 00:21:01.460 --> 00:21:06.420 right track or not, that it doesn't have to necessarily be difficult trying 299 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:08.890 to think about what personalization could be. And I probably just need to 300 00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:13.200 go sit down and talk to sales. Talk to them about how are they initially 301 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:18.260 engaging the accounts, What people come onto. Which part of the sales journey 302 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:22.470 what are common themes across the different stages that you're seeing 303 00:21:22.470 --> 00:21:27.700 from each persona? Okay, each one of those objections or questions they're 304 00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:31.350 running into is content that needs to be developed for the different personas. 305 00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:35.320 And then, just, I mean, if you're only talking about three different personas 306 00:21:35.330 --> 00:21:40.690 across three different buying stages, which is simplistic because it's 307 00:21:40.690 --> 00:21:43.320 probably gonna be more than three. And there's probably more than three buying 308 00:21:43.320 --> 00:21:46.560 stages. But even just that you have nine different pieces of content. To 309 00:21:46.560 --> 00:21:50.040 start with that you probably need and across those nine different pieces of 310 00:21:50.040 --> 00:21:55.100 content. So three different personas across three different buying stages 311 00:21:55.110 --> 00:22:01.120 you could probably develop educational piece, a testimonial piece, probably a 312 00:22:01.130 --> 00:22:05.830 video explanation from your subject matter experts, you know. So there's 313 00:22:05.830 --> 00:22:09.530 multiple pieces of content for each of those little quadrants within a grid, 314 00:22:09.540 --> 00:22:13.310 and then it quickly becomes like 27 pieces of content, which is a lot of 315 00:22:13.310 --> 00:22:16.610 work to make. But of course, you can kind of just figure out like, Oh, what? 316 00:22:16.610 --> 00:22:19.690 Where we getting stuck the most often? And then that's where you can start 317 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:23.200 with those first. What are the hottest topics that are usually getting deals 318 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.650 stuck? You just develop more content around that. More testimonials around 319 00:22:26.650 --> 00:22:30.100 that persona. But it gives me a whole different way of thinking as a marketer, 320 00:22:30.100 --> 00:22:34.390 as far as like, where the gaps in my A B M campaign and then, of course, how 321 00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:37.310 do I feel it? Well, that's when you come to the different channels we have 322 00:22:37.310 --> 00:22:40.670 available. Of course, it's sales enablement arming our sales team in 323 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.280 educating them on the different pieces of content. We have to hit those 324 00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:49.110 different personas within one account within different buying stages. They 325 00:22:49.110 --> 00:22:52.860 have the tools available to them as they're engaging and bringing on 326 00:22:52.860 --> 00:22:55.880 programs like yours, so that you could be actively getting out in front of 327 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.500 them without having to work through the sales guy. So the sales guy, it's not 328 00:22:59.510 --> 00:23:02.760 all dependent on sales to know exactly what tool to send a what person at what 329 00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:07.240 time you could be using the advertising system that companies like yourself 330 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.830 have built in order to target them automatically and then probably some 331 00:23:10.830 --> 00:23:13.280 other systems, like a direct mail campaign and different things at 332 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:16.840 different points. But, um, I kind of on the right track there. Yeah, absolutely. 333 00:23:16.840 --> 00:23:21.700 I think there's just one. Really, If I can offer you so sure, I think from 334 00:23:21.710 --> 00:23:25.180 from exercising point, when you get together yourselves people and just 335 00:23:25.180 --> 00:23:28.030 have this very storming around, You know what kind of messages you want toe 336 00:23:28.040 --> 00:23:31.910 deliver because different stages for different personas you can come up with, 337 00:23:31.910 --> 00:23:37.110 like, the big magics of this kind of messages. But then it's OK to say, I 338 00:23:37.110 --> 00:23:41.830 want to have the same message for this person across all my final or at this 339 00:23:41.830 --> 00:23:45.560 stage, we want to deliver the same message for different persons. It's 340 00:23:45.560 --> 00:23:48.460 certainly fine. I mean, like, you don't have to be super created. I mean, like, 341 00:23:49.340 --> 00:23:52.860 it's okay to say we don't need different messages at this stage or 342 00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:58.430 this, or fistic for different persona. So you want to have this conversation 343 00:23:58.430 --> 00:23:59.960 you want toe build this map, 344 00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:04.290 but it's fine. When you have the same elements occurs like different pieces 345 00:24:04.290 --> 00:24:09.300 in the map. So and then when it comes to execution again, like you don't want 346 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:13.510 to have like, really a lot of different pieces of content again, like it's it 347 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:18.290 depends on your, you know, available resources. So I mean, like, it's fine 348 00:24:18.290 --> 00:24:23.420 toe reuse some pieces off, you know, accounted for different stations about 349 00:24:23.430 --> 00:24:27.670 Justin, or they make it, you know, adjusted, depending on the need. But 350 00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:31.730 still, you don't need to come out this completely new things every time. So I 351 00:24:31.730 --> 00:24:36.280 think it can be very efficient. But from like, having said that you want 352 00:24:36.280 --> 00:24:38.560 you still want to have this conversation at least that, like you 353 00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:41.980 have a strategic session where you kind of give this map, understand what you 354 00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:45.420 do and then make this year Okay, here the same thing here. It should be 355 00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:48.160 different because we have different challenges for different studies. For 356 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.100 example, with fantastic, this gives me a lot to think about. Dimitri has 357 00:24:53.100 --> 00:24:56.800 people wanna learn mawr, dive into this particular topic and wanna learn more 358 00:24:56.810 --> 00:25:00.430 from you and learn about in flew to work and they find you online Yeah, 359 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:05.410 absolutely. So we obviously Darlington happy to connect with visit people and 360 00:25:05.410 --> 00:25:12.590 also way try. Toe toe publishes us basically everything that find amazing 361 00:25:12.590 --> 00:25:17.480 on our corporate block, which is intrude dot com. But also we we have 362 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:23.380 launched a new kind of country resource where we we tried. I mean, like, 363 00:25:23.380 --> 00:25:27.420 obviously, the objective for product off our block is to kind of sell our 364 00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:32.080 ideas and sell our products. But also, we try to build a different country 365 00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:35.440 project where we just, you know, like speak about the challenges that 366 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:39.140 marketers have without, you know, selling anything. We just want tohave 367 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:43.250 this open space toe to have this conversation. And the block is called 368 00:25:43.250 --> 00:25:49.790 High Resolution 8 p.m. So and basically is the name speaks for itself. So we we 369 00:25:49.790 --> 00:25:54.230 try to speak, How can you make it more precise, more efficient again, like we 370 00:25:54.230 --> 00:25:58.060 just launch it is just very fresh, I think. But I think, uh, you know, 371 00:25:58.060 --> 00:26:03.360 listeners can find really amazing ideas over their response. Fantastic. I will 372 00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:08.260 have links in the show notes attached to this episode and on sweet fish media 373 00:26:08.260 --> 00:26:12.430 dot com. Of course, Dmitry things has been a fantastic episode. Thank you so 374 00:26:12.430 --> 00:26:18.040 much for joining me on GDP growth. Thank you. And sweet fish were on a 375 00:26:18.040 --> 00:26:22.770 mission to create the most helpful content on the Internet for every job, 376 00:26:22.780 --> 00:26:26.710 function and industry on the planet. For the B two B marketing industry, 377 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.580 this show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing 378 00:26:30.580 --> 00:26:34.280 leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text 379 00:26:34.280 --> 00:26:38.180 message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me at 380 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:43.980 4074903328 Just shoot me. Their name may be a link to their linked in 381 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.950 profile, and I'd love to check him out to see if we can get them on the show. 382 00:26:48.510 --> 00:26:49.060 Thanks a lot.