Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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what's up? Everybody welcome back to be
to be growth. My name is Leslie Cruise
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with sweet fish media and we are
continuing our deep dive into demand
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generation. If you are just now diving
in if this is your first time listening
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to me to be growth, we've been on a
deep dive the entire month of april.
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We've been talking to different
practitioners and thought leaders in
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the space about demand generation and
the goal has been to kind of define
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what it is, um what it's not and where
it's headed in the future. So today I
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am so excited to be joined by Andy
Davis head of demand generation at a
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test Andy thanks so much for coming
onto the show. Where is happy to be
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here? Absolutely. So the first question
I always ask and you know I'm really
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excited to hear your answer. I feel
like everybody has a different answer
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is how do you, in your own words,
define demand generation? Yeah, I mean
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I define it very simply, it's
generating demand for your business. So
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if you think about that in terms of
supply and demand, right? Supply is how
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much of a thing you've got to sell? And
demand is how many people want to buy
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it. So demand generation is the job of
demand generation is to increase the
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amount of people in market who want to
buy whatever product it happens to be
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the or selling. Um, so yeah, from a B2B
perspective that is kind of running all
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of the different campaigns that you
could could wish to run and want to run,
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uh, increases kind of intent to
purchase for your solution within your
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target bias. Absolutely, easy peasy. I
love it to tell me, what are some
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things that you are doing as head of
demand generation at a test that kind
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of makes your team stand out among the
demand gen crowd? Yeah, that's a big
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question, testing my british modesty
there. I think we're, I mean we're
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above anything. We're just trying to be
really good at like the fundamentals,
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like more than anything, we're trying
to be rather not necessarily standing
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out of the crowd, but I've been part of
the right crowd. And what I mean by
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that is there's like a trend towards
revenue marketing over kind of legion
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and we are like moving ourselves to be
kind of a revenue focused team in terms
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of like what we do, that might be
slightly different to other people. I
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mean, as as a marketing team test test
is a research platform. So we're
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sitting on a date, a gold mine
essentially. So whenever we have a
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question that we could want to ask a
group of people, we can use our own
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product to ask it. And so for all of
our content has our product front and
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center. So whenever you see if you were
to look at any of test marketing and
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use for a data point in there and a
piece of insight, we've used our own
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tool to come up with that, and what
that means is that we can put our own
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product at the center of everything.
Was also being kind of thought leaders
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and educational and insight for being
kind of like present the product whilst
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also not necessarily talking about the
product, but links straight through to
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the product if you wish to use the
dashboard inside our platform to do
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your own data analysis on the insights
that you've just read. So it's kind of
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like almost like a slightly different
take on the idea of being product lead.
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Um and that we can actually literally
put the result that our product
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producers into our marketing in a way
that isn't transactional, like I want
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to buy my things, I want to buy my
thing. I mean we were gifted that
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because of the nature of our product,
it makes it easier for us to do that.
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In some word. I think that is one thing
that we do that perhaps other companies,
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not every other company does do. I know
there are a lot that do do that, like
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hats off to them because it works for
us. Absolutely. One thing I wanted to
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talk to you about, I believe you did a
Lincoln status a few months ago or
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maybe a few weeks ago on this um and
its demand creation versus demand
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capture. And this is something that's
really, really interesting to me in
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this realm of demand generation because
it is something that's kind of trending
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right now. What is the difference in
between, you know, demand capture
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capturing demand and creating it? Yeah,
so, I mean, demand creation is the job
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of communicating, I either like
educational content or kind of content
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that very clearly aligns a pain point
that someone may be feeling in their
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work day to a solution that your
product offers, that could make that
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pain point go away. So that is the
activity that kind of in whatever
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channels you choose to use, whatever
channels work for you, for you creating
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that connection to kind of like problem
I have in my work day and Oh yeah,
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there's this thing that can help me
solve it. So basically, the thing
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that's building that intent to purchase,
that's demand creation, demand capture
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is essentially no wastage. So if
someone is either in market too buy
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something in the category that you
exist within or they're in market to
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buy your product.
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Demand capture is about just don't
waste any of that purchase in town. So
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that could be that if someone is
searching for something a bit like what
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you sell, make sure you appear in the
rankings and make sure you're easy to
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find, make sure your website explain
what you do clearly maybe make your
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pricing available so they can make that
part of the assessment, make it easy to
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book in with a salesperson right there
are tons of tools out there that enable
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you to book time with a salesperson
yourself on a website. It's not
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necessary to handle your email address
and have an email exchange with someone
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that's just being kind of really like
bio centric in that process. And from
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my perspective like from like if my
target is revenue, I have to care what
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happens further down the line. So like
demand catcher. Also, it's also like my
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team's relationship with the Sdrs, how
often we communicate, how aligned we
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are saying exactly the same stuff with
the sales team. Like all of those
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things that just kind of like clear a
path to becoming a customer all count
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Within that demand capture thing.
That's like 101 stuff, right? This is
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like, oh, it's so hard to do the one
creation bit right, involves so much
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customer understanding. It involves so
much like tireless effort on getting
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your proposition, messaging bang on and
testing in channels and working on your
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creative and all of that stuff to do
all of that. And then let an
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opportunity to have a new client that
you could help grow their business slip
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because some of those demand capture
channels or processes were sub optimal,
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is it's not good. Yeah. And I think
that's that's something that you and I
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talked about offline recently and you
had that experience and I think that's
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why the customer experience is so
important. Do you mind sharing what you
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shared with me about that experience
you had? Yeah. I mean, this happens,
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this has happened to me multiple times,
Right? And it probably happens to
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anyone who goes and buys B to be
anything. Is one, is this example of,
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okay, you have two choices when I go to
book a demo on a website. I can even
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just pick a time right there as as it
suits me. And because the tool will
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make it so so it suits the salesperson
as well. Plus points. If you do some
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lead scoring in that as well. So that
if I'm like high school for you, I
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bypassed SDR going straight through to
a fantastic or you can get me to fill
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in a form and then a few days later
someone gets back to me and maybe we
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have a meeting like that is just one
example of an experience which still
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occurs and then you get into the into
the south process itself. So you've got
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one where given my role and the company
that I worked for and the fact that I
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do what I do, like I know when I'm I C.
P. For a company when I'm on their
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website, just right, so if I my C. P.
For their website and then I have their
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their product and I go through their
sales journey. And the first thing that
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I have to do is to kind of explain to
someone in a qualifying call, like why
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I'm almost like why am I good enough to
buy your product? That's not a great
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buying experience. So I've had it had
experiences kind of recently either
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where like I've put in my email address
in a demo form and someone hasn't got
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back to me, it doesn't make sense. Or
were actually the sales process has
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been managed in such a different way.
You start to start veering towards the
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cleaner easier process when we checked
the other day. That might be kind of
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like the example I gave us if it's a
bit like this, if you are interested in
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buying a tv and you knew which one you
wanted and you went to the high street,
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imagine you go to the high street, went
into a tv shop, you stood in front of
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the tv you want to buy, you have to
wait 15 minutes when someone comes up
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to you to offer that tv to you or help
you by. Actually they ask you if you've
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got enough money in your pocket to buy
it first and then they go and get
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someone else is the one that actually
then runs the process and that you
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purchase, you're not going to stand by
that T. V. You're gonna get bored and
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walk off. And that's what happens in
vita peace health processes. And that's
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why the one capture is so important.
Like that's someone basically with the
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checkbook halfway out their pocket,
kind of interested in what you've got
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to sell and you made it hard for them
to buy your product. It doesn't make
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sense. So like, I mean, test, we've not
got this perfect right? We're still
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working on it like this for endless
optimization on on the on these
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processes to make them better. But
that's the intention is basically
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almost like to create a great prospect
experience because it's a bit of an
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indicator of what you're maybe we'll my
view rightly or wrongly. It starts
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making me ask questions about what
they're. Service experience is going to
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be like if that prospect experiences a
bit bumpy, that could be completely
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unfair. But that's the kind of the
perception that can create. Hey
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everybody Logan was sweet fish here. If
you're a regular listener of GDP growth,
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you know that I'm one of the co hosts
of the show, but you may not know that.
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I also head up the sales team here is
sweet fish. So for those of you in
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sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a
second to share something that's made
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us insanely more efficient lately. Our
team has been using lead I. Q. For the
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past few months and what used to take
us four hours Gathering contact data.
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Now takes us only one where 75 more
efficient were able to move faster with
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outbound prospecting and organizing our
campaigns is so much easier than before.
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I'd highly suggest you guys check out
lead I. Q. As well. You can check them
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out at lead I. Q. Dot com. That's L E A
D I. Q dot com. All right, let's get
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back to the show. Yeah, I love that. I
love that idea of hey you go to buy a T.
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V. And it's the same situation. I mean
it's it's literally the same thing. You
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get bored, you get tired of standing
there, you get frustrated and then
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you're probably not gonna go recommend
that to your friends. You're probably
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not going to say, hey go to this tv
store. I got great service, They're
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conceived in it. So that's great. And
clearing that path is so important,
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like you said, and making it easy to
see the prices making it easy on your
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website, but not making it so difficult.
Your customers shouldn't have to dig
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for what they're looking for. So,
another thing that you and I talked
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about and this is another question I
have for you is what are some things
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that marketers in this space tend to
get wrong? And you and I talked a
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little bit about kind of like
overthinking organic on linkedin and
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things like that. Yeah, so organic
Arlington is a interesting one, is
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something that I'm like relatively
neurotic in my like personal, like
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activities. I feel like we're talking
about it. My little like B two B system
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Manchin, like echo chambers that exist
within like it's like an answer to lots
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of problems. But what I'm finding what
what my my experience is actually,
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there's like this and things about it
that could make it really challenging
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for some businesses, which would not
make it an answer to all your problems.
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Um and so and and and the kind of the
lesson that I've gained so far in this
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is about it's actually quite hard to
have validity with your target audience.
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So if I look at the people, they're
doing it really well, they're experts
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in the thing that they're talking about
because that makes sense right? If
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you're going to follow someone as a
thought leader or an influencer, you
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want to know that they know what
they're talking about. And so that that
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initial thing of like if you want to
use linkedin organic or whatever kind
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of organic channels, but that person
needs to be a valid like spokesperson
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around that topic for me personally
like my target audiences B two C.
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Marketers were marketers but I actually
don't have that much validity because
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my area of expertise not all that
relevant. And so the things that I can
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write about and do so with some
knowledge to back it up, they're not
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necessarily things they're going to
resonate with the target audience for
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the company I work for. That makes me
even though I'm in the right department.
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In theory, I'm not actually a good
spokesperson on organic. Well that like
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finding that individual or who can do
that is like thing one anything to it's
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like it's like a real They need to have
the time and inclination which sounds
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like it should be easy but it's like a
hugely time consuming activity to write
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the content, to engage with people to
follow people commenting on different
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people's things, like to learn how the
algorithm works to get your head around
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like time of day. How many times does
it matter if I go into the app like
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every 15? Because I've become obsessed
by how many views my post has got and
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I've been is that affecting it things
negatively looks like it kind of does,
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but I don't really know, you know,
they're like all of these lessons,
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these are hugely time consuming. You
need like an expert who's willing to
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invest like that if you don't have that
within your business and like that's
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entirely possible that you could just
not have that individual, then it's
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obviously not gonna be the channel for
you just because of practicalities.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that's
something that's really interesting
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because I think a lot of people are so
focused on like this, you know, we have
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to be on linkedin and everybody has to
be talking on linkedin and it's
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something that our company has been
doing lately too. We've been really,
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all of us have been talking on linkedin,
we've been making a lot of posts
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recently and I think it's been really
great for us. But I talked to someone
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yesterday, we were talking about how
that might not be where your target
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audience is, which is another thing to
touch on two because I mean, if you're,
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you know, if you're trying to reach me
to be, then yeah, I mean they're
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totally going to be on linkedin, but if
you're trying to reach like an engineer,
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there are more likely to be on Reddit
or or another platform like that. So
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it's not always the best place and it's
not always the only place, you know?
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Yeah, exactly, Exactly. Exactly. And
that comes down to kind of like knowing
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no, no, your customer and nowhere there
playing. I mean like, like part of kind
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of like the job of selecting like a
demand creation channel is like who,
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who are my target audience and where do
they already go on the internet? All
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right. Let's just go there building
communities. If you can get it right,
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it's like gold. It's super hot, so much
easier to
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participate in a way that's appropriate
in a community that already exists. But
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I think you're right. So if my company
sold a B two B marketers gold, right? I
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would just ask to have like, can I have
like an hour and a half a day to cut
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out so that I will do this Lincoln
thing because he's going to grow our
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business and now listen, I have the
ability to have people listen to me
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because hopefully at least I know some
stuff about kind of defeating the
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margin and that means that I can talk
to people kind of like peer to peer.
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Yeah, I say like if you find that if
you have that person great and your
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audience is linked it great. If there's
somewhere else go somewhere else. But
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even then you're gonna need, like in
that engineers scenario, the best
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people to do it would be your engineers.
Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit
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about success in demand gen and a
demand gen strategy. Sometimes this is
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a little bit difficult to measure. So I
wanted to ask you, how do you measure
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success in a demand gen strategy? And
what do you think some people tend to
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get wrong here as well? Yeah, I mean
how ultimate measure of success is
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inbound source revenue. If that is
where it needs to be. We're on quite
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urban, it's almost true that no other
metric that we might track higher up
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the final matters if revenue, if we're
hitting the revenue number be
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interpreted. But there's like there is
however long your sales cycle is
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between kind of like the capture of
that lead and hand over into the sales
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organization and when that revenue
materializes. So you have to have
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something a bit higher up that you can
kind of, uh, you can use as a leading
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indicator of whether you're gonna hit
that number. So we look at pipeline,
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pipeline generated, we look at meetings
where we look at kind of like demo
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request, essentially, uh, coming in,
which is this like great measure of
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high intent lead. So if someone's
coming to us and saying, hey, can I
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talk to you about what you have to sell?
That is a really good indicator of the
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demand creation work that we're doing
is working. They also convert through
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the funnel better than anything else
that we can put through. And then we
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look at what we, what we call meetings
book, which is essentially after
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whoever takes that demo runs that demo,
it moves into the next stage was
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essentially like it's moving into the
pipeline. So we have like to kind of
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numerical targets, like the number of
demo number of meetings and then we'll
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have like dollar pipeline. There are,
there are a ton of other things that we
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look at, like town metrics and website
metrics and all of the rest of it. But
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those are the four things that I look
at in my Salesforce dashboard. If I'm
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honest, like multiple times a day,
probably more than I should. But those
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are the ones I really look at because
those are the things they're like, are
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we across everything? If I stopped
looking all the microscopic little bits
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of data that could send us off down the
rabbit holes that potentially aren't
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helpful. Okay. At really high level are
we trending in the right direction?
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Like if there were requests are going
up, I have a high confidence that means
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pipeline and revenue will go up because
because it has such a kind of strong
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influence on the on those numbers. So
those are the ones we look at as like
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the the the overarching kind of
measures of success or like indicators
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of success and then there's just a pile
of other metrics that we look at which
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are more like are these channels
working as expected? That's great. What
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are some specific tools or maybe advice
that you would share with somebody who
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is implementing demand generation into
their organization for maybe the first
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time? You know, maybe there are new
business, maybe there are very, very
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small startup business um with not a
lot of people on their team and they
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need to implement these demand gen
strategies. Um what's something that
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you would recommend or some advice that
you would share? Yeah, I tell you don't
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actually need that many tools that you
need. You need a Crm. If you haven't
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got one ready right, you need some kind
of crm to be managing a sales process
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you need. So I'd say you need some
mechanism to send emails that is
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connected to that Crm and I would
strongly recommend you keep talking
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about it is like make it easy for
someone to book a meeting with the
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sales team if you've managed to create
inbound demand and like have analytics
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on your website and all that kind of
stuff. But once you've got passed out,
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like another tool, like it's not the
next thing that I would do, Like I
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wouldn't then go, alright, yeah, we
need a lead scoring framework. So they
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were like, you've got some other things
that a bit more foundational that you
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need to do. So then point you kind of,
rather than looking at another tool,
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you need to think about like what are
you going to communicate into the
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market and to know what to communicate
into the market. You need to know who
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you're gonna communicate it to and you
kind of need to understand a bit about
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that day. So actually then like the
next stage in demand generation
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actually looks a bit like some product
marketing fundamentals because that is
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the groundwork that makes the actual
demand generation things that you might
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see when you're out into the channels
work better and then you've got this
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kind of like the prospect experience
stuff that was talking about. So it's
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like if you, if seriously, if you're
that early and you should be working
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out how you can like white glove, any
kind of lead that's coming through
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through the Orig and give them a really
good experience right through to
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customer experience because they're so
precious When, you know, when you've
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got, when you've got less than 10
clients like and any another one, it's
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amazing. The 10% uplift, brilliant. Um,
so like, so that's almost like the
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things just like make sure that engine
is clean, which is kind of somewhat
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relationships, it won't be much went,
there might be much in the way of tech
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because if, if you are in that state
and the volume is fairly life. But I I
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guess what I would stress is you can
pile tech upon tech upon tech upon tech
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and it's not actually going to make the
demand gen activities work better like
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oven in itself. It's like there are
some just pure marketing fundamentals
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that will make it work better like
having great messaging and having some
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really good creative that you've tested
and you know resonates will have a much
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bigger impact than buying in some
platform that does something that
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sounds cool, totally agree, that's
awesome. Andy this has been wonderful,
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thank you so much for coming on GDP
growth and sharing with our audience. I
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know this has been really insightful
for me, my career moving forward and
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hopefully our listeners games and value
as well. Where can people find you
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online if they are interested in
hearing more from you Lincoln Lincoln
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00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.970
is the best place. There are a lot of
Andy Davis is on Lincoln but there's
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00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:24.880
only one Andy Davis that works that
attest to search for Andy Davis the
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00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:25.560
test your friend.
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00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:30.600
Perfect. Thank you again so much for
joining me here on B2B growth. No, my
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pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:38.020
One of the things we've learned about
podcast audience growth is that word of
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00:21:38.020 --> 00:21:42.700
mouth works. It works really, really
well actually. So if you love this show,
309
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it would be awesome if you texted a
friend to tell them about it. And if
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you send me a text with a screenshot of
the text you sent to your friend meta,
311
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I know I'll send you a copy of my book,
content based networking, how to
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instantly connect with anyone you want
to know. My cell phone number is
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00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:07.050
40749033 to 8. Happy Texting. Yeah,