#CX 72: Making The Most of Emotions and Faces w/ Dan Hill

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.869 We are going to remember the sering emotional experience for a long time and that 2 00:00:09.990 --> 00:00:13.630 plays right back to the value of what we bought and to the brand equity 3 00:00:13.669 --> 00:00:19.710 for the company. So experience equals emotions in my game. If you are 4 00:00:19.789 --> 00:00:25.379 in marketing, sales or customer success in a be tob capacity and you're often 5 00:00:25.460 --> 00:00:31.539 doing human to human interactions within your customers experience, you can't talk about that 6 00:00:31.739 --> 00:00:38.490 experience in any meaningful way without considering emotion, the power of emotions and the 7 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:43.329 power of human faces. That is the expertise of today's guest on the CX 8 00:00:43.409 --> 00:00:47.289 series of Bob Growth. His name is Dan Hill. He holds a PhD, 9 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:52.759 he's authored several books on emotional intelligence. He holds multiple patents in the 10 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:58.200 analysis of facial coding data. It's a fascinating conversation. I know you're going 11 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.880 to find it interesting. My name is Ethan Butt. I host the CX 12 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:06.510 series, I host the customer experience podcast and I co authored a book with 13 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:11.909 my friend and team member, Steve Passinelli on using faces and using emotion in 14 00:01:11.189 --> 00:01:15.750 simple personal videos. That book is called Rehumanize Your Business. I hope you 15 00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:22.540 enjoy this conversation with Dan Hill. Hey, unless your job is about to 16 00:01:22.579 --> 00:01:26.700 be automated, your success is state in your ability to build trust, rapport 17 00:01:26.859 --> 00:01:33.530 and relationships with other people, hiring, selling and negotiating, interacting with your 18 00:01:33.569 --> 00:01:37.730 boss, your team members and your customers, even connecting with your family members 19 00:01:37.769 --> 00:01:42.209 and friends. Today's guest is an expert on emotions and he can help us 20 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:46.730 do all of these things more effectively. He's the founder and president of sensory 21 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:51.239 logic, a company that's done market research for half of the world's top one 22 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:56.040 hundred BETAC companies. He pioneered the use of facial coding in business more than 23 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:01.310 twenty years ago. He's received seven US patents related to advanced methods to analyze 24 00:02:01.390 --> 00:02:07.510 facial coding data, and he's the author of several books, including emotion omics, 25 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:13.509 leveraging emotions for business success. First Blush, people's intuitive reactions to famous 26 00:02:13.509 --> 00:02:19.379 art and famous faces decoded a guide book for reading others. Dan Hill, 27 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:23.419 welcome to the customer experience podcast. Well, thank you so much, Ethan, 28 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:27.099 for that very kind introduction. Sure, I just I really appreciate the 29 00:02:27.139 --> 00:02:30.449 body of work that you've generated over your career and I'm really excited for the 30 00:02:30.530 --> 00:02:35.009 conversation it's obviously, you know, we're in this age where technology is so 31 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:38.370 well advanced that we're really questioning in a variety of ways or variety of conversations 32 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:40.770 that are around you know, what does it mean to be human, and 33 00:02:40.930 --> 00:02:46.879 certainly in the context of creating and delivering a customer experience, this kind of 34 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:51.840 tech human divide or blend is, you know, forcing a lot of these 35 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.520 conversations. You know, emotions are really important. So dollars and emotions, 36 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.629 those are the two currencies in the world. Good, I love it. 37 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:05.229 Great precursor to the conversation before we get going on customer experience in particular. 38 00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:07.870 You're in the Minneapolis St Paul area. I'd love for you to share and 39 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:13.460 work. We're recording this on Thursday April. Second, could you share what's 40 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:16.860 the current state of affairs day are regarding the coronavirus pandemic? How's it affecting 41 00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:21.340 you or your family, your team, your customers, just kind of what's 42 00:03:21.340 --> 00:03:23.699 going on where you are? Sure? Well, we have a pretty proactive 43 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:28.409 governor. So we've gone into virtual lockdown mode and people are being asked to 44 00:03:28.490 --> 00:03:31.129 stay home. So we're a bit ahead of the curve on that. Fortunately, 45 00:03:31.169 --> 00:03:34.530 we behind the curve. We are not in New York City. We 46 00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:38.810 have about five hundred cases so far, but they are wrapping up about every 47 00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:44.120 three days. We double and probably the closest EPI center for us as Chicago 48 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.639 and then Michigan beyond that. So obviously it's coming our way, but the 49 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:53.120 expected peak is late May. Okay. Well, very best to you all, 50 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:55.949 as we sure it's one of the more interest things that things happened in 51 00:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.550 your lifetime. It certainly is for me. It's certainly puts emotions front and 52 00:04:00.550 --> 00:04:04.430 the center for all of us, and I actually have both a sister in 53 00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:09.710 law and her daughter who are nurses on the front line in Chicago and DC 54 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:14.419 respectively. So we are very concerned but also really proud of the efforts they're 55 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.660 making. Yeah, I can imagine on both accounts they're. So let's get 56 00:04:17.779 --> 00:04:21.459 into it, Dan, and again best to your family. It's a really 57 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:27.810 appreciate what they're doing. When I say customer experience, what does that mean 58 00:04:27.850 --> 00:04:30.009 to you? What does it conjure? Well, it conjures that there are 59 00:04:30.009 --> 00:04:32.810 a lot of touch points and it you have to keep track of all the 60 00:04:32.889 --> 00:04:36.009 different angles as bit like playing pool. You don't know how you're to get 61 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:39.600 the ball into the pocket, but you got to try. You know, 62 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.480 everyone has an experience interacting with the company. It can be good, it 63 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.240 can be bad, it can be indifferent. Way Too often it's indifferent or 64 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:50.720 even downright frustrating. I think the important that it gets left out of defining 65 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:55.750 customer experience is that emotions are going to come with it and they don't just 66 00:04:55.910 --> 00:04:59.430 come with it. I think they're actually in many ways to value proposition. 67 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:03.430 We are going to remember the seering emotional experience for a long time and that 68 00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:08.180 plays right back to the value of what we bought and to the brand equity 69 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:12.939 for the company. So experience equals emotions in my game. Really, really 70 00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:15.300 good call there. I do like, obviously, hit several of the key 71 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:19.180 themes that that I hear repeatedly in asking a variety of smart people that question, 72 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:24.329 including yourself, and that's it's every touch point. It's happening whether you 73 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:27.370 intend for it to be happening or not. You said, you know, 74 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:30.649 positive, negative or indifferent. And then again the emotional component leads us with 75 00:05:30.769 --> 00:05:34.959 kind of the thoughts and the feelings that become our online reviews. Two stories 76 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:40.079 we tell other people or to the indifferent, which says if it just didn't 77 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.839 even matter at all. You know, emotions are really contagious. They're contagious 78 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:46.639 between the people you're interacting with and they're contagious in terms of what you're going 79 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.269 to share with other people. To underestimate the power of emotions is basically to 80 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:56.750 buy a ticket toward bankruptcy, of my opinion. Sure, so, would 81 00:05:56.790 --> 00:06:00.910 talk a little bit more about the emotional components of the customer experience or even 82 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:03.980 the employee experience? You know, you're a tune to like a barometer of 83 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:08.300 value. You already referred to that a little bit, but just kind of 84 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:12.060 break that down a little bit more from a practical standpoint. Yeah, I 85 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.339 think we gave in talk in terms of the evolution of customer experience, which 86 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:17.769 I love, because you're now trying to look at the holistic picture and how 87 00:06:17.810 --> 00:06:21.089 you're going to design it, how you're going to measure it, implemented all 88 00:06:21.170 --> 00:06:25.610 of that. So it's a really a creative exercise, and the Nice thing 89 00:06:25.730 --> 00:06:28.290 is it's a lift up from what we used to have, which was simply 90 00:06:28.610 --> 00:06:31.610 there was a customer service department. What did that really do? That was 91 00:06:31.689 --> 00:06:34.519 the catch base and at the end of the process, and what it meant 92 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.920 was I didn't get any customer service, I didn't get any customer satisfaction, 93 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:45.120 and the entire emotional dynamic around that was essentially fear, because you had the 94 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.069 poor person who probably wasn't really very empowered by the company, not so well 95 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:53.110 paid, maybe a fairly recent higher within the company. They're just trying to 96 00:06:53.189 --> 00:06:57.829 learn all the processes and procedures and now they have this ballistic missile coming at 97 00:06:57.910 --> 00:07:01.420 them, which is the unhappy customer. Fear is not a lubricate for good 98 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:05.139 communication. I mean, what do you do when you are fearful? You 99 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:09.980 either fight, so now you're going to have a confrontation between the two parties. 100 00:07:10.379 --> 00:07:13.980 You're going to flee, so you basically try to avoid them, or 101 00:07:14.060 --> 00:07:17.089 you freeze, and freeze is really likely because you're stuck behind the desk or 102 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:20.970 on the phone with somebody and they don't hear you, you don't hear them 103 00:07:21.129 --> 00:07:27.129 and nothing good happens. So it is so wonderful that the customer experiences trying 104 00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:30.600 to quote climb out of that, because it really needs to start early on 105 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.680 and we need to bring some other emotions besides fear into the equation quite obviously. 106 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.000 So in my terms and facial coding terms, there are seven emotions. 107 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:45.110 They are the playbook. And there is happiness, which is the only truly 108 00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:48.470 positive emotion, and we can talk about variations of that, like delight and 109 00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:55.990 Relief and pride and hope, but that's essentially your one positive emotion. There 110 00:07:56.069 --> 00:08:00.259 is a neutral emotion, surprise, because you can have a positive surprise, 111 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.779 I got a new car for Christmas. You can have the negative surprise, 112 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.899 I got a new car accident on the way home from work. So that's 113 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:11.259 your mutual emotion that's going to go one direction or other. And then we 114 00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:16.370 have to deal with anger and sadness and fear and disgust and content. I'm 115 00:08:16.370 --> 00:08:18.689 sure we'll get into those, but that's essentially the playbook. If you're really 116 00:08:18.730 --> 00:08:24.449 going to do customer experience well, you need to take an account where those 117 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:26.639 dynamics could to play out. What could be the triggers? How do I 118 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.959 get out of the when I call the speed bumps the negative emotions, and 119 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.200 how do I accentuate the positive really good? I am with you as a 120 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.960 customer. Course, we're all everyone that's on the show, of course, 121 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.470 as customers were all customers in addition to trying to manage some aspect of a 122 00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:46.350 business and in service of customers. I love that the competitive environment has really 123 00:08:46.470 --> 00:08:52.190 forced customer experience back up into the conversation and really forced a lot of companies 124 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:54.669 to think a lot more about it. And you're abs really write so many 125 00:08:54.710 --> 00:08:58.740 unempowered people, I'm thinking now historically, hopefully it's not happening too much anymore, 126 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:03.980 although in canceling a bunch of travel here in first and second quarter I 127 00:09:03.259 --> 00:09:07.620 certainly dealt with people who are not empowered to make decisions in to really serve 128 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:11.370 the customer. And to your point, you know, it's just like any 129 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:15.610 situation, fight or flight or freeze. And you know, I came in 130 00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:20.769 hot on a rat on a customer service rep on the phone the other day 131 00:09:20.090 --> 00:09:24.320 and she just immediately turned it around for me. So there are you know, 132 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.600 there are a lot of people doing these things well. And so, 133 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.360 by and again, I think the the business environment, and on both the 134 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.440 customer and the employee side, his force companies to be better about this and 135 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.269 to probably start acting more in the service of their employees, not just their 136 00:09:39.309 --> 00:09:41.429 customers. Yeah, and you're doing with a person. I mean this is 137 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:45.350 always can we talk about B to be and be to seve? It's be 138 00:09:45.549 --> 00:09:48.990 top, it's business. Two people. You work with people, you sell 139 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:52.179 to people with a if you go back to the traditional format of the customer 140 00:09:52.299 --> 00:09:56.860 service, they come with a story, because really it's their personal worth that's 141 00:09:56.899 --> 00:10:00.620 on the line of this moment. They feel like they made a mistake, 142 00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:03.700 they bought something, they didn't get what they expected. The company is bigger 143 00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:07.289 than them and has their money. And Yeah, they want their money back 144 00:10:07.330 --> 00:10:11.809 or they want satisfaction, but they also want to be validated as a person, 145 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:15.330 which involves actually listening to them. And if you truly listen to them, 146 00:10:15.370 --> 00:10:18.169 you're also going to take no account their emotions. So to me it's 147 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.519 so important for people to lift their emotional IQ, their eq. I have 148 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.120 sometimes, I'd up market research conferences, put out the easiest test in the 149 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.799 world. Seven emotions. I don't even give them like a fake eighth choice. 150 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.279 Seven emotions and here's the essence. that the single word that would describe 151 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.990 what that emotion is about. And all they have to do is a match 152 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:43.070 and sort and the accuracy raised about thirty five percent. This is market researchers 153 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:46.950 who think about business dynamics, hopefully day in, day out on their job, 154 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:50.899 at least thirty five percent. So there is a lot of, you 155 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.820 know, head room that we can improve on to be better at this. 156 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:58.779 Yeah, let's let's spend a minute on Eq and then we'll maybe get into 157 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:03.139 facial coding in business in particular. What have you seen over the years? 158 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:07.850 I mean, obviously you're still to setting up this this you know quizers, 159 00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:11.610 which is essentially you're probably expecting the outcome that you're getting because you've done it 160 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:15.009 enough times. But you know, what's the state of affairs, in your 161 00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:22.080 view, on emotional intelligence, Eq, in popular business culture? Well, 162 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.399 I think it's certainly improved. When I came in in nineteen ninety eight, 163 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.960 I mean I was an absolute pioneer in every sense the word. Knowing it. 164 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.759 Heard of facial coding outside of academia, that's for sure, and I 165 00:11:31.870 --> 00:11:35.149 wanted to tool that will allow me to capture and quantify emotions that I knew 166 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:39.629 how to bring science with it. So yes, Daniel Goldman it come out 167 00:11:39.669 --> 00:11:43.710 with his book on Emotional Intelligence and they was one thousand nine hundred and ninety 168 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:46.230 five and that was a big best seller, but I think it got applied 169 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:48.779 a lot more in personal life that I got applied in business life. I 170 00:11:50.259 --> 00:11:52.899 have had so many people come up to me in province Ay thank God someone 171 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:56.500 is raising these issues and also probably, quite honestly, they got us a 172 00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:01.850 guy because it was a woman. In stereotypical business environments it might seem like 173 00:12:01.929 --> 00:12:05.809 it's too soft or fluffy or doesn't go to the bottom line, and I 174 00:12:05.850 --> 00:12:07.129 knew I had a hard case it. I had to have numbers, I 175 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:09.929 had to have science, I had to have a process. So I think 176 00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:15.649 it's moving that direction. There are constantly articles out in the popular press talking 177 00:12:15.690 --> 00:12:20.679 about breakthroughs and brain science and validating how much we're emotional decisionmakers. But you 178 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:22.960 know, you had to keep pounding and pounding out it. They are just 179 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.720 people who don't want to go there. You know, it just happens. 180 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.269 Yeah, so let's get into a little bit of them, of that harder 181 00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:33.230 science, that the facial coding, the analysis, that data collection, in 182 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:39.070 the analysis of that data. Talk a little bit about that process and then, 183 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:41.029 to the degree you can for listeners, just, you know, make 184 00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:46.500 it really practical for people that aren't necessarily going to undertake a something, some 185 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:48.860 kind of a project inside their organization. What are a few things they can 186 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:54.980 take away from everything you've learned and taught around collecting the data and analyzing it? 187 00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:56.820 Okay, well, I'll see if I can take twenty years and put 188 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.490 it into five cents. Right, so a little five minutes. Yeh, 189 00:13:01.769 --> 00:13:05.610 that's fine. Let's start with facial coding. I think a really fun way 190 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:09.409 to introduce it is Mona Lisa. Leonardo Da Vinci was probably the world's first 191 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:15.480 great facial coder. He got into studying anatomy he wanted to know which facial 192 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:20.240 muscles created which emotions, and so we talked about Mona Lisa's smile. But 193 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.759 Mona Lisa actually also shows tempt and anger and disgust and fear. All those 194 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.669 sorts of things are going on for her. What Duvinjay realize those that the 195 00:13:30.070 --> 00:13:33.750 twenty five square inches that feature our eyes, nose and mouth is the richest 196 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:39.149 visual territory on the planet. The next person who brought US along, with 197 00:13:39.309 --> 00:13:43.860 Charles Darwin, essentially said to himself we must have emotions for a reason. 198 00:13:43.899 --> 00:13:46.820 They must give us an adaptive advantage, and they can in business help us, 199 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:52.139 you know, survive and thrive. The face is, as he validated, 200 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:56.090 the most valuable way to understand what's happening for somebody else. It's the 201 00:13:56.250 --> 00:14:00.730 only place in the body where the muscles attach right to the skin. So 202 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:05.370 it's quick, real time data. It's universal. Even a person born blind 203 00:14:05.929 --> 00:14:09.929 emotes the same way as you are I. So the underlying physiology is the 204 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.120 same, even if, sometimes you know the degree of which the expressiveness happens 205 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.879 can vary by cultures. You can argue Brazil and Japan are polar opposites. 206 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.240 One is completely exuberant and one is much more subtle. And finally, we 207 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.549 have more facial muscles than any other species on the planet. But in practical 208 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:31.029 terms, there is a man named Paul Ectman that I learned facial coding from, 209 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.710 and Paul spent about a decade plus systematically figuring out which muscles correspond to 210 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.980 which emotions. So I gave you the seven emotions earlier and there are twenty 211 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:46.740 three expressions that go to these emotions. Sometimes they go to a single emotion, 212 00:14:46.899 --> 00:14:50.059 sometimes they go to two or three, for instance. So one thing 213 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:54.570 that Mona Lisa shows is her chin pulls up it's kind of a Chin Rot 214 00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:58.649 Riser. That is a sign of anger, sadness and discussed. She also 215 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:01.690 shows contempt. The core of the mouth lifts up in a way. It's 216 00:15:01.690 --> 00:15:07.200 a SMIRK, big of snidely whip lass, the old cartoon character. He 217 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:13.559 was contempt personified. Her lower eyelid is taught and straight. That is a 218 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.519 sign of anger. And finally, yes, there's a smile, but it's 219 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.279 a rather muted smile and all these other emotions are going on in her face. 220 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.590 That's why Mona Lisa so fascinating. She's unusually complex. But really, 221 00:15:24.789 --> 00:15:28.269 when you have someone who's you're interacting with on behalf of your company, a 222 00:15:28.870 --> 00:15:33.789 customer, it maybe a Mona Lisa or maybe something simpler, but it is 223 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:39.500 really helpful to know what you're dealing with. So, for anyone listening, 224 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:43.820 you know I we write these up and we share video clips at Bombombcom podcast, 225 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.419 I'm going to see if I can find a rights free image of Mona 226 00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:50.529 Lisa to embed in here or you know, you can obviously go out and 227 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:52.929 search on its own. I think everything we just heard, you're going to 228 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.809 want to look at that painting. While you maybe bounce back with the thirty 229 00:15:56.889 --> 00:16:00.289 two, sixty two back button and and and take a look at it. 230 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:04.039 I know I'm going to do that when we're done with this conversation. So 231 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:10.200 universal and innate are two qualities of facial expression of emotion. We all do 232 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.120 it approximately the same way and we all do it intuitively from birth. We 233 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.440 write these emotions to our faces and we can read them from other people's faces 234 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:23.070 intuitively as part of the humanic experience. So for a leader or a frontline 235 00:16:23.110 --> 00:16:29.110 employee or for someone who is engaging maybe as a customer, with with a 236 00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:32.590 company, with a person at a company, what are a few tips like 237 00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:37.659 it? Can we can we master or improve our ability to read these or 238 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.580 be more sensitive to them or manage the way we express these emotions? Or 239 00:16:41.379 --> 00:16:48.210 are there maybe communication channel consequences if we're particularly angry or frustrator or confused or 240 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:52.889 that are their channels we should or shouldn't use? Like make it one step 241 00:16:52.009 --> 00:16:56.129 more practical. Sure well, for it's all in my book. Famous faces, 242 00:16:56.210 --> 00:17:00.090 the coded. I essentially offer up the secret sauce. For the longest 243 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:03.559 time I kept it to myself what Dr Ecomand taught me, and he had 244 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:08.720 a very complicated manual five hundred pages plus, pretty academic in nature. I 245 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:12.599 made a little lot more fun for as well. It's shorter. Second of 246 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.990 all, I use celebrity examples with arrows and circles so you can see the 247 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:22.670 expression on the faces of Rock Stars and Hollywood movie stars and famous politicians and 248 00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:26.630 so forth. So that, I think, hopefully makes it a lot more 249 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:30.779 accessible. I in terms of practicality. Yes, I do. Let's take 250 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:34.819 it from different angles. If you are someone in senior management, you need 251 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:38.140 to think about who you're hiring. Even if you're a manager, you know, 252 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.420 one step removed from the front lines. Southwest Airlines, of course, 253 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:45.289 famously part of hiring is who a kind of rap can you give to the 254 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:49.730 people on board the airplane? Are you amusing? Are you likable? Do 255 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:53.930 you bring some energy? And that last point is pretty good, because your 256 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.759 emotions turn on when something matters to you. I mean there are all number 257 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.319 of wives who complain that talking to their husband is like talking to a brick 258 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.759 wall. Well, you do not want that as a customer dealing with someone 259 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.319 on the front lines either. So your emotions turn on to give when something 260 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.390 matters to you. Motivation and emotion have the same root word in Latin, 261 00:18:14.869 --> 00:18:18.750 to move, to make something happen. So show your care, show you're 262 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:22.910 going to get something done on their behalf. I would not want to hire 263 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:26.220 the person with a totally flat affect that is essentially a cold fish. The 264 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:30.339 other thing I think that's important if you're one step removed from the front lines, 265 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.019 is thinking about how you're going to build the experience for them. What's 266 00:18:34.059 --> 00:18:38.299 the emotional payoff? How are you decreasing what I getting called the speed bumps, 267 00:18:38.380 --> 00:18:42.809 the negative emotions? How you taking that out of the equation? You 268 00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:47.890 should be really important to you. And then what's the feedback loop? You 269 00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:52.250 should have some way to actually measure this. We all know the customers as 270 00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:56.039 faction surveys. People who are the bomb throwers might fill it out because they 271 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.200 really have a grievance, but that might may not be a very accurate picture 272 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:02.160 of how well you're doing, or you may just get some fluff nice, 273 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:06.680 as you know, assessments from people they're you're really loyal customers, and that's 274 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:08.599 great too. Maybe the two balance out, maybe they don't. But you 275 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.150 want to broader swath of it and I think you want to be more precise 276 00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:15.990 when we use facial coding in business, and I think my book will allow 277 00:19:17.109 --> 00:19:19.710 people to plug it in on their own. Is You want to actually monitor 278 00:19:19.829 --> 00:19:23.109 people in real time. How do they look when, let's just take a 279 00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:27.980 store window? Do they actually have some surprise? You want curiosity to be 280 00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:33.339 rewarded. You want to spur curiosity. If their eyes don't go wide, 281 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:37.819 their eyebrows don't lift, that's probably a sign that you're not creating the curiosity. 282 00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:42.650 Surprise can be a wonderful emotion. It's essentially something's unusual and I'm going 283 00:19:42.650 --> 00:19:47.970 to expand my field of vision to take in more information. That's exactly what 284 00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:51.289 you want. Of the informations you include the products and service. You're just 285 00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:53.559 selling them. In the end of the process, you would like a little 286 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:59.240 bit of anticipation, of happiness, hope after all. So those a are 287 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:00.880 the two things you want to create up front, and then once you get 288 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.599 them in the store, let's just stay with that scenario. Then probably the 289 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.349 first thing you want to do is avoid anger, because angers and emotion is 290 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:12.349 I'm not making progress, I'm not in control of my circumstances, I'm not 291 00:20:12.470 --> 00:20:18.390 in control of my experience. So if I'm seeing people with knitted eyebrows and 292 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:22.779 they're lowering and they're puzzled, then maybe my signage is bad, maybe I'm 293 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:26.140 not directing them to the real wild moments in my display. Maybe I have 294 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.339 a person who comes up and gives a greeting that seems really phony and doesn't 295 00:20:30.339 --> 00:20:33.940 do anything for them, that doesn't actually direct them deeper into the store. 296 00:20:34.579 --> 00:20:38.609 So there you're trying to keep the happiness, the possibility of happiness, alive, 297 00:20:40.009 --> 00:20:42.369 but I think you're really trying to take away anger. Let's go even 298 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:45.690 another step. Now they're starting to look at some things. I don't want 299 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:49.839 them to be turned off. I want to avoid disgust. With disgust, 300 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.440 for instance, the nose can wrinkle, the upper lip can flare. It's 301 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.039 bad taste, bad smell, as if, almost physically, you're trying to 302 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:00.079 get away from something. Well, my God, in business you're trying to 303 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.829 get them to hug something. You're trying to get them to embrace what you 304 00:21:03.950 --> 00:21:08.630 are selling. So discussed takes you in the completely wrong direction. Now let's 305 00:21:08.630 --> 00:21:12.349 take it one two, one two steps further the next one. I'm at 306 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:15.910 the counter. Finally I'm going to buy something. Let's not make the process 307 00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:19.059 too complicated. That's going to take you right back to anger. Let's not 308 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:23.700 make it seem like there is a reason for contempt, that there's something shifty 309 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:27.339 going on here, that's you're playing little slights of hands. It would be 310 00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:33.410 a lot better relief. Relief Means Ah, I got surprised and I got 311 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:37.930 happiness. Maybe it's a discount, maybe it's a bonus program maybe there's this 312 00:21:37.049 --> 00:21:41.930 or that that's going to make something happen. And finally, Disney was so 313 00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:45.650 good at this. Disney wanted you to stand at x in the theme park 314 00:21:45.970 --> 00:21:49.480 and take a photograph of your experience, because when you got home you still 315 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:52.599 have the experience and you can look back at it, you can validate it, 316 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.200 you could relive it and you could use it as a prompt to go 317 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.000 back to this, to the theme park, another time. How many companies 318 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.630 do anything more than the obligatory email afterwards, you know, thank you for 319 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.069 shopping, or give you a few pamphlets to put in your bag that you 320 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:11.029 never look at again. So that can lead you to sadness. Sadness is 321 00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.589 a sense that you're alone and if you're not careful, it could also be 322 00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:18.660 a sense that I made a mistake, I'm embarrassed because I made a bad 323 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:23.220 purchase. What you want instead on the backside is pride. I fought through, 324 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:29.740 getting to the store, looking things over, making my decisions and I'm 325 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.849 happy and I'm also angry. Actually seems conintuitive, but I'm angry because I 326 00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:40.329 made progress. Anger can be a positive emotions to times that I got through 327 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:44.359 the barriers. I've made progress, I own the outcome. Think of Tiger 328 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.039 Wood when he's at his prime. He had that's fist pump, that huge 329 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.000 fist pump, when he won the tournament. That's actually pride, but it's 330 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.519 anger because I prevailed and it's happiness because I was successful. That's where you 331 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.309 want to have people end really interesting. So many things that that you that 332 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:03.789 you got me thinking on. I'm sure the same for listeners. First is 333 00:23:03.869 --> 00:23:10.390 the reminder that indifference and any lack of motivation, because I'm not feeling any 334 00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:14.859 emotion, I'm actually very indifferent, is probably the worst case scenario, because 335 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.539 I would assume that if you can take someone from a negative emotion to a 336 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:22.579 positive emotion, that that positive emotion might even be further heightened than the natural 337 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:26.690 experience. It's not even it wouldn't be an ideal situation. You prefer that 338 00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:32.289 they land in some kind of happier, prideful situation just through the natural process. 339 00:23:32.369 --> 00:23:37.210 But I'm sure there is a recovery opportunity and at least people care, 340 00:23:37.250 --> 00:23:41.130 at least they're invested in the experience at some level. Even if it is 341 00:23:41.329 --> 00:23:44.400 negative, you maybe have a chance to save it. You know, you're 342 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.839 absolutely right. I mean, happiness is not a trivial emotion and there are 343 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.640 a lot of ways you can get to happiness. One is security. You 344 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.559 know I'm made the right choice. It's also a sense of belongingness, like 345 00:23:55.710 --> 00:23:59.509 this is the right store for me. I relate to the clerk. They 346 00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:03.109 understand me as a person. I even feel a sense of community based on 347 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:06.829 the other shoppers in the store. Maybe another shopper helps you out and says, 348 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:08.670 all, I bought this, or you have just a display that's tips 349 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.900 from other shoppers and you have their photograph and you have a little personal story 350 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:17.140 about how they made this product part of their life, part of their habits 351 00:24:17.180 --> 00:24:19.259 through routine. There are lots of ways you can play this and you're absolutely 352 00:24:19.299 --> 00:24:23.180 right. Even if the product is not superior, in some cases, or 353 00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:27.130 the design of the store. It could be that the saving grace and the 354 00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:33.809 value proposition could be anchored in the person the employee that you smartly hired who's 355 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:37.599 warm and knowledgeable and engaged, caring and make things happen for you. So 356 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.000 I love what you just said. That's perfect. Yeah, and what you 357 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:47.160 what you closed with there is the reminder that not just hiring and selecting well, 358 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.119 which you already talked about, but also making sure that people continue to 359 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.069 employees continue to feel invested in, because they are the vessels through which I 360 00:24:56.109 --> 00:25:00.869 would I would assume that that you would have something to offer on the contagiousness 361 00:25:00.910 --> 00:25:06.269 of emotions, the ability to transfer emotions to other people through like a natural 362 00:25:06.309 --> 00:25:08.299 kind of contagion, I guess, is the word that's coming to mind. 363 00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:12.940 And making sure that your people care, so that they're motivated, so that 364 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.539 they have some level of emotion that they can express and convey onto into other 365 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.890 people. Yeah, you want a sense of camaraderie. Yeah, I think 366 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.609 in the best stores they feel like they're inner together, they're not just played 367 00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:29.210 with. You know, Michael Jordan, one said after a while you don't 368 00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:32.730 want to play with rookies. If you are at a store with this constant 369 00:25:32.730 --> 00:25:37.640 turnover and you are actually the one knowledgeable person there, which are constantly having 370 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.279 to stop and tell us someone how to run the cashrasers or how to do 371 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.680 x, Y and Z, that's a drag and maybe you decide you're going 372 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.480 to you're going to abandon hip and get out of there. So I think 373 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.630 continuity of staff, that they feel comfortable, that they enjoy each other, 374 00:25:51.390 --> 00:25:53.029 that they're good fit for your customers. In a lot of ways, you 375 00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:56.309 shouldn't. You know as much as you can. Just drag get somebody who's 376 00:25:56.349 --> 00:26:00.430 going to mirror and reflect back who those people are and can speak to their 377 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.980 interests and taste to some degree. I this. Think that makes the whole 378 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:10.579 circle a tire more virtuous circle. I agree. So let's let's transfer this 379 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:14.299 to a because it's the situation we're all in now, is we're all being 380 00:26:14.420 --> 00:26:17.779 forced to work from home. A lot of businesses are doing, you know, 381 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:22.089 curbside only or online shopping and delivery. Let's do the transfer now to 382 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:26.890 video, so you know what what we do. Obviously, as we use 383 00:26:26.890 --> 00:26:29.849 zoom. We're using zoom right now to record this. I'm really glad we 384 00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:32.490 can see each other and we're not just doing audio. I think it's really 385 00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:36.759 important to the way that we host these conversations. We use zoom for live 386 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.799 video conversations, but you know that requires that we're both available at the exact 387 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:44.720 same time, or a whole our teams, you know, get together and 388 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.029 these kinds of things. And then we use bombomb. We make it easy 389 00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:51.630 to record and send short video messages. You can do longer ones if you 390 00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:53.470 want to. I always recommend that they be only as long as they need 391 00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:56.910 to be so that you can do this asynchronously as well that you know if 392 00:26:56.910 --> 00:27:00.430 someone is communicating with you by so we did this yesterday, by the way. 393 00:27:00.819 --> 00:27:03.980 You sent me an email, I sent a video back. You had 394 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.339 this in person moment with me, and so obviously, so much of what 395 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:12.140 you've shared here already is transferable to a video environment, which is why the 396 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:17.210 company was created, you know, more than a decade ago. Is because 397 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:22.009 we knew intuitively, although not with the language in science that you have, 398 00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:26.049 we just knew intuitively, are cofounders did, that that were better in person, 399 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:30.400 that we connect and communicate more effectively through video, and I think you 400 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:36.119 probably have something to say about the science behind live and recorded video communication when 401 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.640 you can't be there in person. I certainly do. I've done executive coaching. 402 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.079 I've been on TV, you know Good Morning America and the day show, 403 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:45.029 and you know actually you go back and you look at your video clips 404 00:27:45.069 --> 00:27:48.430 and so forth. In the art book, even more specifically, I looked 405 00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:53.509 at eighty eight famous paintings or artworks in general, and I use both eye 406 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:59.339 tracking and facial coding to know where people looked and how they felt, but 407 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:02.579 what they were taking in, and a lot of the artworks involved faces, 408 00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:07.140 and it's really important because what I've discovered both of my twenty years of research 409 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:10.740 and this art book, is it held up. Seventy percent of our gaze 410 00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:15.369 activity and seventies percent of our emoting will go to the face if there is 411 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:18.809 a face president something, and obviously in the videos you're talking about the email 412 00:28:18.849 --> 00:28:22.890 videos, it's going to be a face. So that face is absolutely crucial 413 00:28:23.289 --> 00:28:27.319 to the successful delivery. But there's some guideline. For one thing, what's 414 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.359 the size of the face? To my surprise, even though we talk about 415 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.440 the close up in Hollywood. You know, Mr De Mill I'm ready for 416 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.319 my closeup, the famous moment from Sunset Boulevard. The face too large on 417 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.950 the screen is actually off putting. It feels like it's you know, I'm 418 00:28:42.230 --> 00:28:45.710 dealing with a jolly green giant instead of a human being. It's just too 419 00:28:45.789 --> 00:28:48.789 much. The face too distant on the screen, of the other hand, 420 00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:52.069 starts to take it away from me. I don't have that human canvas, 421 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:57.779 those twenty five square inches of valuable real estate that Da Vinci realized. So 422 00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:02.700 a medium size face on the screen is great. The next thing is an 423 00:29:02.779 --> 00:29:07.619 expressive face. It was really striking when some of these are self portraits by 424 00:29:07.660 --> 00:29:11.049 artists, sometimes their portraits of other people. But if the face was expressive, 425 00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:17.809 refe modestly expressive, way better in terms of getting engagement and gaze activity 426 00:29:18.170 --> 00:29:21.930 than essentially a poker face. Part of that that was also going to be 427 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:25.920 what I call being on emotion. Do you create the right emotions at the 428 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.799 right time to match your content? You know I'll be looking fearful, even 429 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.240 though you're talking about how much confidence you have in your product. And then 430 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.079 it's the best one out there. The last one is you might think, 431 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.109 well, maybe I should put two people on the camera. Probably not. 432 00:29:40.829 --> 00:29:44.309 Well we found is the more faces you add into the picture, and it's 433 00:29:44.309 --> 00:29:47.630 probably talks to your background as well. The more complexity to the background, 434 00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:51.509 the more you're actually distracting. What I've found in my work as well, 435 00:29:51.829 --> 00:29:55.380 in advertising and all sorts of things where you're trying to make that quick first 436 00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:59.220 impression, it's a lot like trying to land an airplane on the helicopter pad. 437 00:30:00.019 --> 00:30:04.180 The first few seconds are really important and keeping it relatively simple thematically is 438 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:08.009 important because human beings are like housecats. We don't like to work that hard, 439 00:30:08.450 --> 00:30:11.769 so don't make them exert more than they have to and be warm. 440 00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:15.049 If you do those things, you got a chance. Yeah, I love 441 00:30:15.089 --> 00:30:18.970 it. I always make that recommendation. Sometimes they do it a little bit 442 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:21.130 tongue in cheek, but one of the things I always say is, you 443 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:25.039 know, if you're not sincere about your message, no matter what the message 444 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.519 is, or if you're not sincere about the value or opportunity that you're presenting 445 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:33.079 through video, you probably shouldn't use video because people can detect that gap between, 446 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.549 you know, what you're saying, the actual words you're saying and everything 447 00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:40.950 else, the way that you're saying it and we can just we can detect 448 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:45.509 that discrepancy and I'm sure it probably creates confusion at best and maybe distrust it 449 00:30:45.670 --> 00:30:51.259 worse. Yeah, well, I do a lot of work on bluco campaigns 450 00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:55.140 as a puned in for seeing in and New York Times and Fox and NSNBC 451 00:30:55.380 --> 00:30:57.740 and Reuters, and there's a really a pretty basic rule of thumb if you're 452 00:30:57.740 --> 00:31:02.500 a candidate in a debate or anyway, what you're presenting yourself? First, 453 00:31:02.539 --> 00:31:04.769 are you likable? I mean you're not going to buy from someone you don't 454 00:31:04.809 --> 00:31:07.289 like. It's just not going to happen unless you really have to you have 455 00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:11.289 no other choices. Second, you know what's in it for me? Of 456 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.569 course, you mean. Beings are naturally selfish and self interested. So does 457 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:18.119 the person on the screen of this case in the video email. Do you 458 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:21.960 have a sense that they understand me as a person, that they get who 459 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.359 I am? And then implicit in that is, if they're offering me something 460 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.839 is can I trust them? But they actually follow through on their promises? 461 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.269 And so that's where that disconnect. That's where you know talking points is fine, 462 00:31:33.309 --> 00:31:38.470 feeling points is better. Being on message is okay. Being on message 463 00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:42.950 and on emotion is far better. Then you're fighting with two hands. Otherwise 464 00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:45.910 you got one hand behind your back and they're really important one. The knockout 465 00:31:45.950 --> 00:31:51.779 punch is emotions. The way the brain is oriented is it's sensory first of 466 00:31:51.819 --> 00:31:55.140 all, if you go back to evolution. So we take it all those 467 00:31:55.180 --> 00:32:00.740 visual signals, we do. Then we attach emotional significance to them and only 468 00:32:00.819 --> 00:32:04.730 then do we get around to a rational response. But basically the games already 469 00:32:04.769 --> 00:32:07.769 set from the sensory and the emotional reaction. The emotional part of the brain 470 00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:12.410 sends six times more data to the rational part of the brain than the other 471 00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:16.680 way around. In other words, everybody feels before they think. Everybody feels 472 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:22.039 before they think. The value proposition is essentially emotional and the rational part is 473 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.839 a little cherry on top of the Sunday. That's all it is, in 474 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:30.150 many cases nice and I'm sure that's anchored in what you observed, is it? 475 00:32:30.269 --> 00:32:31.990 The brain just doesn't want to work very hard, and so it does 476 00:32:32.069 --> 00:32:36.509 what it's instinctual and natural. First and only, maybe out of deep, 477 00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:39.309 deep necessity, does it kick it up to the to the heavier weight rational, 478 00:32:39.430 --> 00:32:44.190 logical processing. Yeah, we go with a gut instinct. It's quicker, 479 00:32:44.269 --> 00:32:46.019 it's easier and we're going to do a little validation. But even the 480 00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:51.220 rational stuff is all filtered through, you know, the what happened emotionally first, 481 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:53.500 and then it's validated emotionally, because we're going to choose, naturally, 482 00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:58.730 which details we hold onto and we're going to hold onto the deals details we 483 00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:02.690 think of emotional significance that either offer us a lot of hope and opportunity, 484 00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:07.089 you know, you know, we want pleasure, pleasure principal. Freud was 485 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:09.650 not entirely stupid, and secondly, we want to stay away from danger, 486 00:33:09.690 --> 00:33:13.920 which is where Charles Darwin comes back into the picture. I want to stay 487 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.279 alive. I don't want to buy bad things, stupid things. I don't 488 00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:20.240 want to make myself look like on the animal in the herd that should be, 489 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.240 you know, left for dead. This has been so fun and interesting 490 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.990 and I expect, if listeners are with us at this point, that they 491 00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:31.549 agree. If there's maybe one thing that you would like to leave people with, 492 00:33:31.630 --> 00:33:36.430 with where? And I'm going again back to decades of your work, 493 00:33:36.789 --> 00:33:38.750 you know, are there one or two things that you just wish? Gosh, 494 00:33:38.789 --> 00:33:42.579 if I could, if I could get more people to just flip the 495 00:33:42.700 --> 00:33:45.660 switch or know this thing or stay aware of this, we would be in 496 00:33:45.700 --> 00:33:49.940 a much better state of affairs or any like kind of high level takeaway for 497 00:33:50.059 --> 00:33:53.779 folks. Well, I think to stay with the face and this valuable real 498 00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:58.809 estate. It's amazing to me from studies if you even turn sideways, a 499 00:33:58.890 --> 00:34:02.049 little bit sideways in profile, if you're talking someone of your clerk can still 500 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:05.930 work, as you can see about two thirds of the face, but the 501 00:34:06.089 --> 00:34:10.039 more your face turns away from them, the less their brain and actually fires. 502 00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.000 By time we see the back of the face, we hardly care at 503 00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:17.559 all about the person. So if you're creating the video, that's your great 504 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:22.880 chance for facetime, facetoface, making the connection. Do not be faceless, 505 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:28.230 do not be emotionally faceless. You have to come alive as a person. 506 00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:30.869 They want to buy from a person. You are the embodiment of the company 507 00:34:31.030 --> 00:34:35.949 in that moment, just like Bill Clinton, who was really a great retail 508 00:34:36.349 --> 00:34:40.659 politician, apparently makes everybody who's in a conversation with them feel like he's there 509 00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:45.179 the only person in the world to Bill Clinton that moment. That's a that's 510 00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:49.420 a great gift fantastic. Square up to people, look them in the eye, 511 00:34:49.460 --> 00:34:52.130 as much face as possible. Really, really good tips there. If 512 00:34:52.170 --> 00:34:55.769 you are listening and you've enjoyed this conversation with Dan Hill, I know that 513 00:34:55.849 --> 00:35:00.849 you will also enjoy episode fifty four with Vanessa Van Edwards of the Science of 514 00:35:01.010 --> 00:35:07.090 people. That one's titled Unlocking the Science of video and more recently, episode 515 00:35:07.130 --> 00:35:12.119 sixty three with David Merriman Scott, who wrote the book fanoccracy, creating fans 516 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.800 through human connection. We had a slightly similar aspect to our conversation as we 517 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.630 had here today, where we talked about physical proximity, and so everything Dan 518 00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:25.590 was offering here about you know, how large your head and shoulders should be 519 00:35:25.630 --> 00:35:29.750 in the frame is related to some of the things that we talked about with 520 00:35:29.789 --> 00:35:34.349 David and episode sixty three. So, Dan, I love to close these 521 00:35:34.389 --> 00:35:38.780 conversations with a couple key things. One is your opportunity to think or mentioned 522 00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:43.500 someone's had a positive impact on your life or career, and then also a 523 00:35:43.659 --> 00:35:45.699 company that you really respect for the way that they deliver for you as a 524 00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:51.489 customer. Sure whether someone named Joe Rich, who was instrumental in my company 525 00:35:51.530 --> 00:35:55.849 because he was such a minch. He was so emotionally warm but also savvy, 526 00:35:57.130 --> 00:35:59.369 and I'll give you a quick story. So he's working for a major 527 00:35:59.409 --> 00:36:02.449 AD agency in La the person says to him, we hate everyone at the 528 00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:06.880 Ad Agency now, but we still like you. And Joe says, well, 529 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.760 we're going to lose the account, right, and they said yes, 530 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.239 he so it. Just do me a favor, let me know the day 531 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.280 it's going to happen. So gets the following phone call. The torpedo is 532 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:19.230 in the water. Click, that's it and he knows this is a day. 533 00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.989 Unfortunately they're going to lose the account. But Joe was just wonderful in 534 00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:27.750 helping me launch the company. Really a great resource for my book emotion omics. 535 00:36:28.269 --> 00:36:31.940 As to a company, I'm always amazed by trader Joe's. They really 536 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:36.579 do seem to have an aspree to core among their workers. When I started 537 00:36:36.619 --> 00:36:39.219 my company in San Diego, I used to pick up some items at times, 538 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:42.579 and Ralphs, and then I'd also go to trader Joe's. From most 539 00:36:42.619 --> 00:36:45.980 of it, the difference between the two was absolutely astonishing. You know, 540 00:36:46.210 --> 00:36:51.690 add rals there was everyone was kind of stollen. There was very little eye 541 00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:53.929 contact. No one wanted to help you. It just felt like, you 542 00:36:54.010 --> 00:36:58.969 know, a morgue in many respects, specially emotionally, and you go to 543 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:01.159 trader Joe's and they're smiling, they're chatting among each other, they're ringing the 544 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:05.320 little bell that to tell you that someone needs help at a certain counter. 545 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.840 My God, what a difference. Yeah, great recommendation there. I've read 546 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.719 a number of really nice stories about them. I mean the way that they 547 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:15.550 that the way that they hire and treat their employees. I think it's foundational 548 00:37:15.670 --> 00:37:20.269 to the experience you get as a customer there. there. I haven't read 549 00:37:20.309 --> 00:37:22.070 like a formal case study on trader Joe's, but I've read a number of, 550 00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:27.710 you know, business based articles about the way that they get that done, 551 00:37:27.789 --> 00:37:30.219 and so really good call. I haven't heard that one at this point 552 00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:32.579 in a conversation yet on this show. So love that one and I agree. 553 00:37:32.860 --> 00:37:37.300 I was recently there. Of course they're there, I guess, rationing 554 00:37:37.739 --> 00:37:42.219 the number of people in the store in order to maintain physical distance between customers, 555 00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:45.650 you know, in this environment, and of course the shelves were you 556 00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:47.369 know, people made a run on these stores, you know, and as 557 00:37:47.489 --> 00:37:52.170 this as a stayathome orders and types of things came up, and so I 558 00:37:52.369 --> 00:37:55.289 saw this is free to core that you're describing, between employees that are just 559 00:37:55.409 --> 00:38:00.000 as fast as they can restocking shelves and, you know, restocking the coolers 560 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:05.880 and things with products, and I've had that experience, even under this time 561 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.519 of kind of uncertainty and stress. Yeah, no, just it just feels 562 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:14.190 good. I feel happy coming into the store because they're, you know, 563 00:38:14.269 --> 00:38:15.789 they're not trying to fake it, but they're relatively happy, maybe not with 564 00:38:15.909 --> 00:38:20.949 a job every moment, but with the interactions with each other and with the 565 00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:23.030 customers. I do a really good job of it. Yeah, it really 566 00:38:23.070 --> 00:38:27.699 matters and obviously you're as a customer there, you're making a choice based on 567 00:38:27.780 --> 00:38:30.380 the experience that they deliver for you. How do I feel when I've made 568 00:38:30.380 --> 00:38:35.219 the decision to come in and do my business here? So, Dan Again, 569 00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.699 I've greatly enjoy it. I really appreciate the work that you've done and 570 00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:42.250 if people want to follow up and learn more about you or the books that 571 00:38:42.329 --> 00:38:45.530 you've written or your company, where some places that you might send people? 572 00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:47.650 Sure? Well, first of all, I do have a website. Naturally, 573 00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:54.719 it's called Dan Hill dot sensory logiccom from that they will find the fact 574 00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:58.679 I have a blog called faces of the week that they could sign up for, 575 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:01.639 or they can find it through emotions wizard. They'll also going to see 576 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.280 will be up very shortly now. I'm going to have a little pop up 577 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.559 thing they want to keep track of special events and retreats I'm offering. Next 578 00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:14.190 year, after the inevitable recession passes, hopefully with the virus, I'm going 579 00:39:14.190 --> 00:39:19.510 to launch some one day business retreats really around Eq themed in different directions. 580 00:39:19.829 --> 00:39:22.869 They'll be held in the palm springs area where I have a winter home, 581 00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:27.420 so you can escape the winter blues, come down, take the one day 582 00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:31.420 seminar, go see Joshua Tree or some other things as a tourist and come 583 00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:37.780 away hopefully wiser, happier, wealthier, whatever. Really good, really good 584 00:39:37.780 --> 00:39:39.329 picture. It sounds like something I want to do right now. And you 585 00:39:39.449 --> 00:39:43.730 know, we're still here with the promise of spring, and I'd like to 586 00:39:43.809 --> 00:39:45.730 be in palm spring. So, Dan Again, I appreciate your time so 587 00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.849 much. Thank you so much for your insights and I hope you have a 588 00:39:49.929 --> 00:39:52.409 great rest of your day. Thank you so much, Ethan. It was 589 00:39:52.409 --> 00:39:57.639 a lot of fun trader Joe's. It's a brand that's come up before for 590 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:01.559 delivering a great experience. In fact, I have an episode recording that hasn't 591 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:06.480 released yet where they come up again. I hope you're finding ways to create 592 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:10.110 and deliver a better experience for your customers. I hope the CX series here 593 00:40:10.190 --> 00:40:15.190 on be tob growth helps. I welcome your feedback on these conversations. Reach 594 00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:21.269 out by email Ethan etch an at Bombombcom or hit me up on Linkedin. 595 00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:27.300 Ethan, but spelled bee ute pretty easy to find. I welcome a note 596 00:40:27.340 --> 00:40:30.739 with that connection request. I'm happy to take any feedback you have on this 597 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:36.530 series. If you want more, you can always search the customer experience podcasting 598 00:40:36.650 --> 00:40:43.210 your preferred player or visit Bombombcom podcast. We write up all of these episodes 599 00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:45.929 short, concise write ups. We had some video clips to bring the message 600 00:40:45.969 --> 00:40:50.480 to life and to humanize the guests. So if you want more from any 601 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:52.400 of the folks that you're hearing here on be tob growth, that's a great 602 00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:57.400 place to go to learn more. Bombombcom podcast. Thank you so much for 603 00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:04.280 listening to the CX series here on B Tob Growth. One of the things 604 00:41:04.309 --> 00:41:08.110 we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works 605 00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:12.230 really, really well actually. So if you love this show, it would 606 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:15.789 be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it, and if 607 00:41:15.829 --> 00:41:17.940 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your 608 00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:22.179 friend, Metta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book, 609 00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:24.860 content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone. You want to know 610 00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:30.380 my cell phone numbers. Four hundred seven, four nine, hundred three and 611 00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:35.650 three, two eight. Happy texting. I