Benefits of Modern Demand Gen for Startups

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah. 2 00:00:06.640 --> 00:00:10.590 All right. Welcome back to BTV Growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with Sweet Fish Media. 3 00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:15.000 Today I am joined by an affirming aww, the founder of Fermanagh of Marketing 4 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:19.850 Consulting and the host of the modern startup Marketing podcast. Today we're 5 00:00:19.850 --> 00:00:22.790 gonna be talking about demand generation, and I thanks so much for 6 00:00:22.790 --> 00:00:26.470 joining me. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Happy to be here 7 00:00:26.470 --> 00:00:32.330 talking to you. Yeah, me too. Me too. Glad to hear it. Well, as you know, 8 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:38.480 April is the month of the BDB growth deep dive into demand generation. And 9 00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:41.830 personally, I feel like demand generation is pretty controversial in 10 00:00:41.830 --> 00:00:45.180 the B two b space. And part of me thinks it's because a lot of people 11 00:00:45.180 --> 00:00:50.320 don't fully understand it like myself. Um, I've seen a lot of people refer to 12 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:55.260 demand generation as a fancy word for marketing, but personally, I just I 13 00:00:55.260 --> 00:00:58.850 think it's so much more than that. And Anna, the article that you wrote on 14 00:00:58.850 --> 00:01:04.019 LinkedIn really helped me have more of a solid understanding of what modern 15 00:01:04.019 --> 00:01:06.900 demand Gen looks like for startup companies. So I'm kind of hoping you 16 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:11.020 can dive into that a little bit here today and share with those who might be 17 00:01:11.020 --> 00:01:14.790 listening and those who might be wanting to effectively grow revenue in 18 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:21.330 their business. So you started off your article by diving into legion versus 19 00:01:21.330 --> 00:01:25.490 demand. Gen. And personally, I find it difficult to differentiate the two 20 00:01:25.490 --> 00:01:28.850 since they are so similar. So do you mind sharing just some major 21 00:01:28.850 --> 00:01:34.580 differences between the two? Yeah, I'd love to share that. And actually, about 22 00:01:34.590 --> 00:01:40.530 a year and a half ago, I had called up some folks marketers, and I just wanted 23 00:01:40.530 --> 00:01:43.580 to know, like, Do you know the difference? What is the key difference 24 00:01:43.580 --> 00:01:47.230 here? Because people are throwing around terms as they do in marketing a 25 00:01:47.230 --> 00:01:50.190 lot of the time, but they don't actually know what they're talking 26 00:01:50.190 --> 00:01:55.420 about, right? So when I asked other folks, they were also fuzzy, giving me 27 00:01:55.420 --> 00:01:58.560 fuzzy explanations about it. They Sometimes they said, it's the same 28 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:02.440 thing, lead generations of the same thing as demand generation. But what I 29 00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:07.860 realized was that there's a very clear distinction. There's, like legion 30 00:02:07.860 --> 00:02:12.180 agencies out there that are, um, constantly going on Lincoln and saying, 31 00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:16.830 I can get you leads like I can get you more discovery calls so it's really 32 00:02:16.830 --> 00:02:22.710 just like a numbers game. So lead generation is, um, and I'll define it 33 00:02:22.710 --> 00:02:27.560 like I did in the article is where you're collecting information or you 34 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.790 have information about potential customers. You think that they're going 35 00:02:30.790 --> 00:02:35.800 to turn into customers. You hope that they will. And so you're trying to get 36 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:39.650 collect information from people so you can nurture them, turn them into 37 00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:44.980 customers. So they are visiting your website. Um, maybe there you want them 38 00:02:44.980 --> 00:02:49.880 to submit their email address, download a piece of content and suddenly that's 39 00:02:49.880 --> 00:02:54.750 a lead, right? People define it that way. When you're pulling a context list 40 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:59.000 when you're buying a list, right, you're doing some cold email outreach 41 00:02:59.010 --> 00:03:03.730 and some percent of your people on that list. Open your email or click through 42 00:03:03.730 --> 00:03:07.770 to something and read it suddenly right. The team is like, Oh my gosh, we have 43 00:03:07.770 --> 00:03:13.710 leads. Now we have 1000 leads So that's lead generation, and that is like just 44 00:03:13.710 --> 00:03:18.770 the tip of the iceberg in terms of what it means to your business and actually 45 00:03:18.770 --> 00:03:22.700 like getting customers. Demand generation, on the other hand, is so 46 00:03:22.700 --> 00:03:28.080 much more than that, and it's really based on creating, like marketing 47 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:33.730 campaigns that are driving interest in your thought, leadership, driving, 48 00:03:33.730 --> 00:03:37.550 creating demand. Or like I, I really want to listen to this podcast. I 49 00:03:37.550 --> 00:03:41.520 really want to understand what this person knows, and then maybe down the 50 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.310 road, I really want to work with this person. So the goal with demand 51 00:03:45.310 --> 00:03:51.760 generation is build trust. Increase your brand recognition, position 52 00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:57.920 yourself as the go to, and it's more of what I think. It's more of long term 53 00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:02.120 strategy that covers all the stages of the buyer journey. That doesn't mean 54 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:07.570 that it's just like, Okay, we're going to focus on long term plays here, right? 55 00:04:07.570 --> 00:04:11.870 Like having a podcast, and you're not expecting the people the listeners to 56 00:04:11.870 --> 00:04:15.540 immediately turn into customers. You should be thinking about it in terms of 57 00:04:15.540 --> 00:04:21.640 what activities can I work on within my demand gen strategy that will get us 58 00:04:21.640 --> 00:04:26.610 some whatever number of customers this month, next month within three months 59 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:30.290 versus now, Let's think about six months down the road, and then let's 60 00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:34.990 think about like a year or two down the road, so there are things that you can 61 00:04:34.990 --> 00:04:38.800 think through and be doing within your demand gen strategy. But you can see 62 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:42.560 that there's a clear difference. Absolutely. Yeah, so it's kind of 63 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:46.700 almost like going back to almost building relationships, so kind of 64 00:04:46.700 --> 00:04:51.330 starting at the beginning, making yourself known in that industry. And, 65 00:04:51.340 --> 00:04:56.080 you know, like you said, positioning yourself as a go to That's right, Yeah, 66 00:04:56.080 --> 00:05:01.960 I think of it very simply as like, Lead Gen, which I've done before at a 67 00:05:01.970 --> 00:05:06.840 previous company, is basically just like, Let's increase our email list 68 00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:13.630 like the number of people on there that we can push emails out to and hopefully 69 00:05:13.630 --> 00:05:18.220 then send another email and another one, and then maybe they'll bite right? Uh, 70 00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:22.230 demand gen will help you create more awareness, create more excitement, 71 00:05:22.230 --> 00:05:25.590 nurture those people, would develop that relationship, developed trust like 72 00:05:25.590 --> 00:05:30.810 you said, Yeah, that's great. And since demand gen. Is something that I would 73 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:35.720 say, it's definitely trending right now. It's constantly evolving, and I talked 74 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:38.990 to someone a few days ago who mentioned even over the past year with the 75 00:05:38.990 --> 00:05:43.960 pandemic alone, all of these changes that have occurred in demand generation 76 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:49.080 and so can you talk a little bit about what demand Jin looks like in the past 77 00:05:49.080 --> 00:05:54.530 versus new dimension moving forward. That is a great question. I think that 78 00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:59.830 it's definitely true the way that you're saying that the pandemic has 79 00:05:59.840 --> 00:06:03.740 sped up a lot of things. And I think like with the pandemic, companies have 80 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:12.170 had to create a sense of empathy at the core of of who they are and really care 81 00:06:12.170 --> 00:06:15.560 about their customers and care about them as people. And not just like, will 82 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:21.570 you buy my product or service? So I think that's why the game has changed 83 00:06:21.580 --> 00:06:26.710 and has to change for companies that want to keep up, um, and need to be 84 00:06:26.710 --> 00:06:32.500 more empathetic. And that's why demand Jin also needs to evolve and and has 85 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:38.160 been evolving. And, um so let's talk about so demand, Gen uh, the old game. 86 00:06:38.170 --> 00:06:43.570 But then demands of the then, uh, is really you're thinking about how do I 87 00:06:43.570 --> 00:06:48.330 generate as many leads as possible? So it's more of a quantity play versus 88 00:06:48.330 --> 00:06:54.490 quality. Uh, just like I mentioned with, like, buying a list, emailing them and 89 00:06:54.490 --> 00:07:00.380 then having your SDR team go after, uh, as many as they can to try to convert 90 00:07:00.380 --> 00:07:05.680 them. And then they maybe like you get 0.5% of them that scheduled discovery 91 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:09.760 call, and then who knows if they become a customer. So you're working with big 92 00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:15.050 numbers, but you're actually converting at very low percentage. Another part of 93 00:07:15.050 --> 00:07:20.580 the old game is your calling leads people that give you their email 94 00:07:20.580 --> 00:07:29.050 address in exchange for some PdF or e book or or checklist or tip sheet or 95 00:07:29.050 --> 00:07:33.260 whatever it is. Oh my gosh, they wanted that information. That is a lead 96 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:38.890 another, You know, part of the old game is you think you know who your 97 00:07:38.890 --> 00:07:44.690 customers are, but there's really no proper voice of the customer research 98 00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:50.060 that's been done. To understand your buyer there needs, um, their goals, 99 00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:55.090 their challenges where they spend their time. What are they talking about, 100 00:07:55.100 --> 00:07:59.510 what's keeping them up at night like a three dimensional understanding of 101 00:07:59.510 --> 00:08:03.640 these people and really like. That's how you empathize with them and 102 00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:08.060 understanding their buyer journey and then building useful buyer personas 103 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:13.030 that not just the marketing team uses. But the entire organization uses and 104 00:08:13.030 --> 00:08:18.010 believes in it and and has like a deeper understanding and then another 105 00:08:18.010 --> 00:08:25.410 part of the old game is hearing like What's the r o I on that? I I don't 106 00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:30.690 even know what to say when I hear like, What's the r o I on that for everything? 107 00:08:30.700 --> 00:08:34.490 And then you basically like marketers have to prove the r o I on basically 108 00:08:34.490 --> 00:08:38.400 everything and they're spending their nights and their weekends like trying 109 00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:45.690 to figure out attribution And I just have to say that we talk about this a 110 00:08:45.690 --> 00:08:50.520 bit like, oh, in marketing, there's a swing over to, like, brand and strategy. 111 00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:54.870 And now there's another swing back to data, and it's like you have to have 112 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:57.770 balance, always, just like with everything in life. You have to have 113 00:08:57.770 --> 00:09:04.750 balance in order to get the most out of life, Um, and get the most out of your 114 00:09:04.760 --> 00:09:11.040 business success. So being really smart on when to ask for the r. O. I on 115 00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:17.280 something and when to sometimes you do need to do marketing, it's like kind of 116 00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:21.860 like an art, right? So you have to have that gut instinct, and that comes from 117 00:09:21.870 --> 00:09:26.280 doing things over and over and and figuring out what works and polishing 118 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:29.350 that gut instinct of, I know this is going to work It's just going to take 119 00:09:29.350 --> 00:09:33.890 some time. Yeah, yeah, let's dive into You know, we kind of talked about that. 120 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:37.660 That flawed thinking of demand, Gen. And you know, we talked a lot about R O 121 00:09:37.660 --> 00:09:42.810 I and people who are kind of stuck in those old ways. But what are the newer 122 00:09:42.810 --> 00:09:47.600 like? Let's talk about new demands in what is the future? Yeah, so for me, 123 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:53.730 and I think like demand generation and marketing, like you said that there 124 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:57.820 it's like another way to say marketing. So it's always been sort of for me that 125 00:09:57.820 --> 00:10:01.200 the same thing. It's just demand. Generation is used more so in the B two 126 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:05.550 B space. So the new game, or what should be the new game for more and 127 00:10:05.550 --> 00:10:10.510 more companies as they like figure this stuff out is instead of passing all of 128 00:10:10.510 --> 00:10:15.940 the leads to sales and also clarifying what is a lead? Is it somebody that 129 00:10:15.950 --> 00:10:20.180 downloaded that e book? Or is that not actually the case? It's somebody that 130 00:10:20.180 --> 00:10:24.550 wants to talk to sales. Maybe that's an actual lead, right? So instead of 131 00:10:24.550 --> 00:10:28.990 passing all the quote unquote leads to sales, marketing just has to screen the 132 00:10:28.990 --> 00:10:34.330 leads and then pass the best to sales. And through that screening process you 133 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:39.970 are. Yes, you're getting a lower number of leads right past over to the sales 134 00:10:39.970 --> 00:10:43.940 team. But you're going to increase your conversion rate, right? It just makes 135 00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:49.130 sense. And I think that it's a great way from marketing to to learn a bit 136 00:10:49.130 --> 00:10:53.580 more on like, Okay, who is this person? Is this actually somebody that's that's 137 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:57.560 relevant for the sales team to talk to? It's a learning process, and they can 138 00:10:57.560 --> 00:11:02.240 go ahead and just ask and then help the sales team out right instead of the 139 00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:08.030 sales team working on so many of the of the leads that are not qualified. So 140 00:11:08.030 --> 00:11:13.530 another thing for the new game is to be by your centric versus company centric. 141 00:11:13.530 --> 00:11:19.630 And what I mean by that is, um, a lot of times were so we all drink our own 142 00:11:19.630 --> 00:11:24.380 company, Kool Aid of We're the best at X. We have the best thought leadership 143 00:11:24.380 --> 00:11:28.720 on X. We're going to tell people about how amazing we are, how amazing our 144 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:34.910 technology is, and that's very company centric, and it's it's natural for 145 00:11:34.910 --> 00:11:40.300 people to want to do that. But instead of saying we have the best product and 146 00:11:40.300 --> 00:11:43.450 we're going to do a podcast, because then it's going to get the information 147 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:48.320 out to people of how great we are or the thought leadership be buyer centric. 148 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:55.200 So understanding like what information is going to be of the highest value to 149 00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:00.560 your buyer. And in what format do they want to consume that valuable 150 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:06.120 information? So, um, somebody that is looking for, like, staying on top of 151 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:10.480 trends, just being in the know, Maybe they will listen to a podcast. Maybe 152 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:16.540 they will sit down and read like a longer form piece of material for 153 00:12:16.540 --> 00:12:20.690 something where they want to dig deeper, right? And then you create something, a 154 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:26.080 piece of content, that it goes really specific and talks about exactly how 155 00:12:26.090 --> 00:12:31.620 you recommend to do something. So just being more bio centric makes a lot of 156 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:37.040 sense and then also being revenue oriented. So a lot of companies are 157 00:12:37.040 --> 00:12:43.670 still to this day, very much leads oriented, and what ends up happening is 158 00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:49.030 you're living in the old game. You're trying to hit your leads numbers, your 159 00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:54.040 marketing qualified leads, right, and so that's a really difficult game to 160 00:12:54.040 --> 00:13:00.810 play when and and also a story to tell of. Uh, marketing is very important to 161 00:13:00.810 --> 00:13:04.880 this company. Look at how many quote, marketing, qualified leads we're 162 00:13:04.880 --> 00:13:09.560 getting. But then are you actually creating revenue for the company? And 163 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:14.840 not all companies treat marketing as like a revenue powerhouse. I think that 164 00:13:14.850 --> 00:13:19.450 I think I just read like in 2017 or 2000 and 18. Deloitte did a study, and 165 00:13:19.450 --> 00:13:25.440 it was. Only 38% of companies actually treat marketing as part of, like the 166 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:30.470 revenue generation for the company. I'm sure it's increased now, but then the 167 00:13:30.470 --> 00:13:35.190 question is like, What's the percentage? And also, what's the contribution that 168 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:39.150 marketing is making, like, what percentage of revenue is marketing 169 00:13:39.150 --> 00:13:45.180 contributing to So the being leads oriented is going to take the time away 170 00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:48.800 from actually like working on the stuff that truly matters in order to generate 171 00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:53.270 revenue for the company? That's good. That's good. Um, you leaned into this a 172 00:13:53.270 --> 00:13:59.370 little bit, but would you consider demand gen to be synonymous? Two B two 173 00:13:59.370 --> 00:14:03.700 b marketing, where sales and marketing are both critical to the success of the 174 00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:09.600 company? Yeah, I think that's that's exactly what needs to happen is the 175 00:14:09.610 --> 00:14:13.730 sales and marketing alignment that's also part of the new game. In the 176 00:14:13.730 --> 00:14:19.470 article, I mentioned that 60% of there's like a Forrester and Gartner 177 00:14:19.470 --> 00:14:23.610 survey. 60% of survey respondents said that sales and marketing teams 178 00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:29.220 communicate effectively. Um so, like transfer of information, figuring out 179 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:34.200 what works, having like recurring meetings. And that was up from 57% the 180 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:41.120 year prior. So 2019 to 2020. And I'm just gonna come out and say that like, 181 00:14:41.130 --> 00:14:48.030 this is not that great It's not. These are not great percentages. Um, so I 182 00:14:48.030 --> 00:14:52.420 think it's absolutely critical, like you cannot work in silos for demand 183 00:14:52.420 --> 00:14:57.120 generation to work within a company. There needs to be alignment between 184 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:01.050 marketing and sales there, and I've talked to focus on the podcast. How do 185 00:15:01.050 --> 00:15:06.880 you How do you create that alignment? What's the most effective way and 186 00:15:06.890 --> 00:15:12.460 number one? It's like figuring out what does the lead mean in your company? If 187 00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:18.380 a prospect is qualified, then what does that actually mean? When does sales get 188 00:15:18.380 --> 00:15:24.170 to hang out with them and talk to them, and then if it's not the right fit for 189 00:15:24.170 --> 00:15:27.840 sales. Do they pass it back to marketing? Then what does marketing do 190 00:15:27.850 --> 00:15:33.100 every time marketing comes up with, like, new stuff to share new videos? 191 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:38.150 New Case studies like this stuff can't just, like, sit in a corner and collect 192 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:43.440 dust. The sales team needs to know about it, and everybody needs to be 193 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.050 like talking about it, talking about it These days, like companies need to be 194 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:53.310 more of like Media Company versus just a company that creates a product that 195 00:15:53.310 --> 00:15:58.060 expects people to love it, love it so much and come on board and use it. You 196 00:15:58.060 --> 00:16:03.760 need to corral the team, and everybody needs to be part of this media effort. 197 00:16:04.140 --> 00:16:09.240 Another thing that comes up is like meetings, right? Like it sounds pretty 198 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:13.790 simple, but meetings between marketing and sales on a regular basis, weekly 199 00:16:13.790 --> 00:16:18.800 monthly quarterly where it's about educating like here's what we're doing 200 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:23.200 with our demand in efforts. Here's what content we've developed here is how 201 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.450 buyers are progressing through the program. Get some feedback like what's 202 00:16:27.450 --> 00:16:31.730 not working or what's working really well. What should we do more of talk 203 00:16:31.730 --> 00:16:38.350 about use cases it's so important to do that Michael, from the CMO of 204 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:43.080 intelligent medical objects was on the show, and he said he's allergic to 90 205 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:50.870 minute meetings, but he also is very keenly aware of how important this is. 206 00:16:50.870 --> 00:16:55.870 So, uh, and discussing like the the important stuff during these meetings 207 00:16:55.880 --> 00:17:02.390 and then training is the third thing. So ongoing training gets everyone on 208 00:17:02.390 --> 00:17:07.180 the same page, especially as New people joined the company marketing. I've 209 00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:12.660 always thought like marketing is not just a silo. A team extends throughout 210 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:16.660 the entire organization. So as people joined the company when I was heading 211 00:17:16.660 --> 00:17:21.900 up marketing at different startups like as New People join, I would be the one 212 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:25.260 that they're like, Oh, I want to talk to marketing because now I'm going to 213 00:17:25.260 --> 00:17:30.820 understand, Like, what? What problems do we solve? Who are we for? How has 214 00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:35.240 that story evolved? And this is the stuff that people really connect to and 215 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:41.510 and train really well around to, like, jump start their whatever their 216 00:17:41.510 --> 00:17:46.550 responsibilities are at the company. So so training about by your insights how 217 00:17:46.550 --> 00:17:50.490 to translate these insights into the talking points across the company. For 218 00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:55.710 a sales team for customer success, training is so important. So those are 219 00:17:55.710 --> 00:18:00.710 the three areas where aligning, marketing with sales and even beyond, 220 00:18:00.710 --> 00:18:04.960 like with the whole entire company. These are the methods that are the best. 221 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:12.420 So going back to kind of the basics, let's talk about the impact of 222 00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:17.840 implementing demand generation into a smaller startup or even organizations 223 00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:23.260 that are scaling. What's the benefit? And I guess, where would you start? 224 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:30.710 Where would you start? So demand jin and marketing starts, and and this is 225 00:18:30.710 --> 00:18:36.310 like how I always speak to folks that are interested to talk about marketing 226 00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:41.670 clients that I have, like it all starts with building your house right, 227 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.110 creating a foundation, creating a marketing foundation. It does not start 228 00:18:45.110 --> 00:18:50.190 with. Let's get marketing campaigns going. Let's start figuring out what to 229 00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:54.540 do with leads and having these meetings with sales. It starts with. First, you 230 00:18:54.540 --> 00:19:00.540 need to have a really good core foundation, understanding of your buyer 231 00:19:00.550 --> 00:19:06.160 and the problems that you solve and your target audience and your ideal 232 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:11.070 customer profile and all of the challenges. Right, um, goals that they 233 00:19:11.070 --> 00:19:16.950 have all that stuff, and from there, then you take it to like Okay, now I 234 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:20.920 have my foundation. I can start in my house. I can start building beautiful 235 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:26.640 rooms within my house so I can start to like now message what we do in the 236 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:32.500 right way on our website on our social, social media platforms, wherever you 237 00:19:32.500 --> 00:19:35.880 show up online, wherever you show up offline. Right now you're building 238 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:42.150 these beautiful rooms. And then the third part is then that's what people 239 00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:46.540 get excited about is generating awareness and doing the demand 240 00:19:46.540 --> 00:19:51.070 generation creating like an engine, a content machine like however you want 241 00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:56.690 to put it, that's the third step. So it's very it's very important to like 242 00:19:56.690 --> 00:20:02.960 start in the right place and have that foundation built out before you start 243 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:08.660 talking to sales and creating campaigns and getting the message out there and 244 00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:12.300 creating a consistent engine. Yeah, yeah, And what would you say would be 245 00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:16.560 the benefit for these small startups, you know, like that are just starting 246 00:20:16.560 --> 00:20:23.420 to implement these new things. The benefit is you're going to start to fix 247 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:30.680 all the things that you're frustrated with, so I find that a lot of startups 248 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:35.380 and even larger companies are just so frustrated. I came from that place to 249 00:20:35.390 --> 00:20:40.530 like we're doing a lot of work. We're doing a lot of activity. We're working 250 00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:45.430 60 hours a week. Were, you know, sometimes more are we spending our time 251 00:20:45.430 --> 00:20:51.030 on the right stuff and a lot of like I think a lot of, um, what makes people 252 00:20:51.030 --> 00:20:54.820 really good at what they do is they are able to take off a bunch of stuff that 253 00:20:54.820 --> 00:20:58.210 doesn't matter off of their plate. That's the stuff that makes people 254 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:04.180 excellent at their in their roles. So the impact from implementing good, 255 00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:13.940 solid, modern demand generation is that you help the sales team make their job 256 00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:19.510 easier honestly. So they're not like running after the large quantity of 257 00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:26.820 quote unquote leads right that you are able to get from buying a list or, you 258 00:21:26.820 --> 00:21:31.420 know, going to. We used to go to trade shows and talk to people and, like we 259 00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:34.680 got all these folks and they came by our booth or we emailed all these 260 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.730 people that have this title, and here's all the leads for you follow up. It's a 261 00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:43.300 lot of time being spent on that, and it's not necessary. Buyers become more 262 00:21:43.300 --> 00:21:47.190 engaged in sales, so any time for example, I go on LinkedIn, I connect 263 00:21:47.190 --> 00:21:51.220 with someone. I do. I'm very like I want it to be a good connection. I'm 264 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:56.900 very open to it. But then they pitch me right away. That's not engaging. I 265 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.830 didn't want to talk to you about your product. I wanted to start a 266 00:21:59.830 --> 00:22:06.160 relationship. So that is that is key is like Think about how your experience is 267 00:22:06.170 --> 00:22:12.590 online offline. First you need to engage people, and then you can have, 268 00:22:12.590 --> 00:22:15.550 like the sales team come in because they're actually interested to talk to 269 00:22:15.550 --> 00:22:20.120 sales. Um, another thing is conversion rates. Like I mentioned conversion 270 00:22:20.120 --> 00:22:23.500 rates. Your quantity of leads will go down, but your conversion rates along 271 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:29.150 the funnel will improve your sales cycle. Length will go down so people 272 00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:33.370 are frustrated like Oh my gosh, the sale cycle in a lot of B to B companies 273 00:22:33.370 --> 00:22:39.370 is like six months, nine months, 12 months, even more sometimes. And you're 274 00:22:39.370 --> 00:22:45.510 doing this to yourself, right? Like you are thinking that this large group of 275 00:22:45.510 --> 00:22:52.120 Leeds is going to convert, but it takes them a year and a half. So something's 276 00:22:52.120 --> 00:22:55.760 wrong there, right? You need to go after the people that are that really 277 00:22:55.760 --> 00:23:00.100 do fit your ideal customer profile that really have a need for what you're 278 00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:04.830 looking for because not everybody is ready to buy today. Um, it's like 279 00:23:04.830 --> 00:23:09.930 around 1 to 3% of people are ready to buy today or this month what you have 280 00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:13.770 to offer out of, like the audience that you can pass in your total addressable 281 00:23:13.770 --> 00:23:21.560 market. So most people are not ready to buy. So what you can do is then nurture 282 00:23:21.560 --> 00:23:26.880 those people that are eventually more likely to buy. But make sure that 283 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.880 you're nurturing the right people. Um, and not just like a large quantity of 284 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.170 numbers that makes it look good to your to your boss. Um, and then the last 285 00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:40.310 thing is like collaboration. I think marketing and sales there's always been 286 00:23:40.310 --> 00:23:46.750 this, like a bit of friction. Right? Sales team is focused on closing deals 287 00:23:46.750 --> 00:23:49.980 and, like, where are the opportunities? And I need more leads. And where is the 288 00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:54.820 top of the funnel work? And, um, these are bad leads. And why is marketing 289 00:23:54.820 --> 00:23:58.280 working on that stuff and and working on any of this stuff? Because I'm just 290 00:23:58.290 --> 00:24:02.210 it's just not usable for me so collaboration is key in order for 291 00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:07.350 demand generation, modern demand, generation to work. And that's part of 292 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:10.940 what I speak too heavily in this article is how to make that 293 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:15.110 collaboration actually happen. That's great. Yeah, I think that's so 294 00:24:15.110 --> 00:24:20.050 important. And I think what I'm hearing, the way you're describing demand Jin 295 00:24:20.050 --> 00:24:24.550 kind of reminds me a little bit of content based networking. Would you say 296 00:24:24.550 --> 00:24:30.590 that those are similar or I feel like they're synonymous in away? Tell me 297 00:24:30.590 --> 00:24:34.480 what what's content based networking? I want to make sure I understand. Yeah, 298 00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:38.290 So content based networking our CEO actually wrote a book about it about 299 00:24:38.290 --> 00:24:41.460 how to connect with anyone you want to know. So kind of building those 300 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:44.590 connections, building those relationships with people that you want 301 00:24:44.590 --> 00:24:48.450 to network with people that could eventually turn into leads. But you 302 00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:52.420 want to connect with him. You want to build that relationship first. Yeah, 303 00:24:52.430 --> 00:24:57.590 there's a lot of similarities there. It's definitely about relationship 304 00:24:57.590 --> 00:25:03.840 building versus spamming, and it's also about understanding your customers so 305 00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:08.550 well or or perspective by your so well that you know what they'd be interested 306 00:25:08.550 --> 00:25:15.140 in. And so it makes me think of also like automation versus not automating 307 00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:19.610 things that I think that there's there's a problem. When you start to 308 00:25:19.610 --> 00:25:24.270 automate stuff, then you tend to not really be relevant for folks because 309 00:25:24.270 --> 00:25:28.420 you're automating something versus like if you actually do build a relationship 310 00:25:28.420 --> 00:25:33.320 with someone and certain things kind of like come to mind, right? You're 311 00:25:33.320 --> 00:25:37.390 thinking about someone you have that list of like top 20 top 50 people you 312 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:41.650 think about, and you know this is going to be relevant to share it with them. 313 00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:46.440 And you did like some research and that it's so hard to automate that and to 314 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:51.470 grow relationships with automation. So I'm weary of that, too. But yes, it 315 00:25:51.470 --> 00:25:55.710 does. It does sound like the same thing that you mentioned. Well, Anna, this 316 00:25:55.710 --> 00:25:58.690 has been so, so great. Thank you so much for joining me. I feel like I'm 317 00:25:58.690 --> 00:26:02.280 learning so much from you. And I'm so excited to learn more in this deep dive. 318 00:26:02.280 --> 00:26:06.460 And where can people find you online? If they're interested in learning more, 319 00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:13.820 you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm there almost every day talking with a really 320 00:26:13.820 --> 00:26:18.410 great people, smart people building a great community there. And you can also 321 00:26:18.410 --> 00:26:24.000 find me by going to furman off marketing dot com. And, of course, if 322 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.630 you haven't heard of the modern startup marketing podcast, you can find me. 323 00:26:28.630 --> 00:26:33.470 They're talking two amazing guests that have kicked butt with their marketing 324 00:26:33.470 --> 00:26:37.590 and at their startup. I love it. Awesome. Fantastic. Thanks again. So 325 00:26:37.590 --> 00:26:41.560 much for joining me here on GDP growth. Thank you. Mm. 326 00:26:43.540 --> 00:26:47.510 Is the decision maker for your product or service at BBB marketer? Are you 327 00:26:47.510 --> 00:26:51.710 looking to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? Considered 328 00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:56.930 becoming a co host of GDP growth. This show is consistently ranked as a top 329 00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:01.080 100 podcast in the marketing category of apple podcasts. And the show gets 330 00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:06.650 more than 130,000 downloads each month. We've already done the work of building 331 00:27:06.650 --> 00:27:10.690 the audience so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our 332 00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:15.160 listeners if you're interested. Email Logan at sweet Fish media dot com