#BehindTheCurtain 21: Why You Should Fire Like You Hire w/ Bill Reed

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.640 Hey, this is James, the founder of sweet fish media. If you've 2 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.759 listened to me to be growth for a while, you probably have an idea 3 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.750 of what we're passionate about. Loving people really well, a constant pursuit of 4 00:00:08.869 --> 00:00:13.669 learning and inspiring people to own their careers. With all the craziness happening with 5 00:00:13.750 --> 00:00:17.550 this virus, we are incredibly fortunate to be in the business of podcasting. 6 00:00:18.109 --> 00:00:22.219 So many BB brands are looking for alternatives to their inperson events that are being 7 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:26.780 canceled, and our business is growing as a result. Please don't miss hear 8 00:00:26.859 --> 00:00:30.379 me on this, because I'm not saying this to Brag. It is heartbreaking 9 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.579 the economic impact this is having on so many businesses. But being in the 10 00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:39.130 business of podcasting, the demand for what we do has increased and because of 11 00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:43.130 that we're looking to hire really talented people to help us serve that demand. 12 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.450 So if you like what we're all about it sweet fish and you're looking for 13 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:49.689 a great career opportunity, hit us up. There's a link in the show 14 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:52.679 notes where you can apply today. I'm really looking forward to meeting you. 15 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.520 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweet fish media today 16 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:02.560 is another episode in our behind the curtain series, which is normally James, 17 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.109 our founder and CEO, and myself riffing on what we're learning, what we're 18 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:10.430 doing here at sweet fish as we continue on our own growth journey. I'm 19 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:12.989 actually joined by not a new member of the sweetfish team but a new voice 20 00:01:14.150 --> 00:01:18.109 to the behind the curtain series. I'm joined by our chief operating officer, 21 00:01:18.230 --> 00:01:19.500 Bill Reid. Bill, how's it going today? It's going well over, 22 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:25.219 and thanks, costume man. You bring so much wisdom, so much insight 23 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:27.980 to our team and such a great addition to our leadership team that you know, 24 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:30.579 we just been talking for a while that we've got to do this and 25 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:36.170 I want to share some of your wisdom with the team. For folks listening 26 00:01:36.290 --> 00:01:38.689 to this who aren't as familiar with you as the rest of the team here 27 00:01:38.730 --> 00:01:42.209 at sweetfish, James, myself the rest of the sweet fish team, give 28 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:46.609 listeners a little bit of background on yourself and and what your role is currently 29 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:49.439 at here at sweet fish. Sure, so it's Logan said I am chief 30 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.920 operating officer here. I've served in that role a number of times, but 31 00:01:53.040 --> 00:02:00.200 really my background is very entrepreneurial, starting early s had an agency for ten 32 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.150 years and I've done lots of things. The thing I love about what I 33 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:08.110 do is not necessarily the subject matter or the expertise, but just the business 34 00:02:08.270 --> 00:02:12.710 of business, and that's one of the reasons I enjoy sweetfish so much, 35 00:02:12.830 --> 00:02:16.819 because I'm working with a really talented group of young people. And so when 36 00:02:17.139 --> 00:02:23.780 Logan refers to wisdom, what he usually refers to and when it's the MIC's 37 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:28.419 not on his gray hair. So I bring that as well. Hey, 38 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:32.169 there is a lot to be valued in in that gray hair well built. 39 00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:36.770 We're going to be talking about this phrase that you you've talked about before. 40 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:39.889 I've heard you mentioned that, no matter whether you're a startup, you are 41 00:02:40.250 --> 00:02:45.120 a fortune five hundred company, you are early stage start up, a mid 42 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.400 market company, whatever it is, it is very important that you fire like 43 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.039 you hire. I almost said that that backwards, but just to say that 44 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.879 again, you fire like you hire, and this is something that you've experienced 45 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.189 here at sweet fish as you've had your hands in culture and people, opposites 46 00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:06.150 now fully on Ryan drowdy's play here here on the team, as you focus 47 00:03:06.270 --> 00:03:08.430 more in operations and those sorts of things, but here at sweet fish, 48 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:14.340 as well as through many different business ventures that you've led or founded. You've 49 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:16.860 been involved in in hiring and letting people go, all these sorts of things, 50 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:21.500 and I know this is something that's been a lesson you've learned over the 51 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:23.939 years. So I'm excited for you to share with listeners about it. Tell 52 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:28.330 us a little bit about why this concept is so important to you. I 53 00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:32.129 think the first thing is you've noticed kind of this trend in hiring. If 54 00:03:32.169 --> 00:03:36.250 we back it up, because before we talk about firing, well, you've 55 00:03:36.289 --> 00:03:38.729 got to kind of compare it to your hiring process. Tell us a little 56 00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:43.719 bit about where you kind of flip some of the priorities, and we do 57 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.800 here at sweet fish, versus the way most people look at their hiring process, 58 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.680 and what are the top priorities that go into that hiring process? Sure 59 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:54.360 so, for a lot of organizations they do the hiring thing pretty well. 60 00:03:54.870 --> 00:04:00.469 They take time, they have a process attached to that. Actually, it's 61 00:04:00.469 --> 00:04:01.949 a lot of fun if you've done it. It's a lot of fun to 62 00:04:02.430 --> 00:04:09.669 invite people into the hiring process, and so my contention is that while we 63 00:04:09.750 --> 00:04:14.780 do a fairly good job at higher during man we don't do a very good 64 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:18.860 job at the dismissal process at all, generally speaking. Yeah, the other 65 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:23.420 thing that we talked about a lot when it comes to hiring, you've noticed 66 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:29.089 and organizations and various sizes, that there's usually this prioritization of skill set and 67 00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:34.529 experience over culture over potential. Tell us a little bit about where you kind 68 00:04:34.569 --> 00:04:40.240 of see most organizations going and where they might want to reprioritize some of those 69 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.519 things. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we all know people 70 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.879 are at the heart of organization. They're the most important thing and we sometimes 71 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:54.589 joke that managing is awesome, except for the people. So along with some 72 00:04:55.350 --> 00:05:00.189 blessing comes some challenge with people, and so one thing that I've focused on 73 00:05:00.269 --> 00:05:04.110 in the hiring process is not just the skill set and experience but the heart 74 00:05:04.470 --> 00:05:09.180 and in the culture, the heart of the person and the culture of the 75 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:14.180 company and how well we match that matters more to me and really always has. 76 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:17.740 I often say around the office good people make their way, and so 77 00:05:18.699 --> 00:05:26.329 I think that's true. Despite inadequate systems, despite dysfunctional communications, good people 78 00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.610 make their way. So when I'm hiring, that's what I'm looking for, 79 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:33.129 good people, and that depends less on their skills and experience. In my 80 00:05:33.290 --> 00:05:36.959 book, then it does the fit with the company, the culture and the 81 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.040 team. Yeah, absolutely, I think that cultural fit is really important. 82 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:46.319 As the old saying goes, culture each strategy for breakfast and and you can 83 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:50.189 try and enforce a culture, but it's really made up of the people and 84 00:05:50.430 --> 00:05:55.910 in the hearts of those people. So baking that into your hiring process. 85 00:05:56.230 --> 00:05:59.949 So as we kind of compare these two, you mentioned something a second to 86 00:05:59.990 --> 00:06:03.339 go build that. You know, people put a lot of thought and process 87 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:11.819 and intentionality into their hiring process versus the firing process tends to be very reactionary 88 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:15.180 and that's where you think a lot of organizations kind of miss the mark here 89 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:18.689 and do themselves a disservice. Right. Yeah, for sure. The the 90 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:23.970 amount of time and effort that's spent on a hiring strategy definitely needs to be 91 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:28.610 spent in terms of strategizing and exit. I don't know if you personally have 92 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:31.370 ever been dismissed from a job, but it's a pretty traumatic experience and so 93 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:36.800 I always keep that in mind and at we have a very specific process in 94 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:43.079 place that we want to give somebody every chance to succeed and a lot of 95 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:48.029 times from a distance, what I've seen is that the manager, the supervisor, 96 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:53.829 Works and works at trying to take things forward and at the end of 97 00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:58.269 it they fail, not necessarily because the employer, the team member fails, 98 00:06:58.350 --> 00:07:02.019 but because they don't really know how to manage or to move somebody from struggling 99 00:07:02.259 --> 00:07:06.699 to success, and so they get tired of that and pretty soon what happens 100 00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:12.980 is disappointment in sufficient performance and then one day, boom, we're done, 101 00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:16.209 and so it's a quick it usually ends up being a quick reactionary decision and 102 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:20.970 that's most unfortunate. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about we've talked a 103 00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:25.970 little bit about, you know, why you should put the thought into your 104 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:30.600 firing process as much as your hiring process. Let's talk a little bit about 105 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.519 things that you can do, once you start to think about it, from 106 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.879 your own experience, from some of the things we've tried to implement here at 107 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.560 Sweet Fish Bill, that folks can do with this, because sometimes it's a 108 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.750 little bit uncomfortable situation. That's probably part of why we just, you know, 109 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:48.509 we handle it quickly. It's not just because we've listened to the old 110 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:53.709 adage of higher, slow fire fast, which we did a great episode on 111 00:07:53.870 --> 00:07:57.430 why some of that Hue probably need to take with a grain of salt, 112 00:07:57.670 --> 00:08:01.860 but you unpacked it there very well that it's the emotions of it. You 113 00:08:01.939 --> 00:08:05.019 know, the the firing manager, if you will, to try and coin 114 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:09.899 a new term, is dealing with the frustration of either themselves not being able 115 00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:15.410 to help improve the performance or they feel like, you know, the employee 116 00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:18.850 is lacking. But you talk a lot about in making sure that the person 117 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:22.250 who's being let go feels valued and not just in a fluffy way. Kind 118 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:26.009 of break that down tactically. You know what that means and how you do 119 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:31.399 that. Well, in the dismissal process, well, I'll say this first 120 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:33.879 of all. Often Times, when we get to this point, toward toward 121 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.480 the dismissal and of things, we can usually look back and see that the 122 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.309 hiring process maybe was off for the decision. You know, we didn't do 123 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:46.830 as good a job on the hiring process as we should have. And so 124 00:08:46.309 --> 00:08:52.470 one thing that we we value a lot here at sweet fish is full transparency 125 00:08:52.870 --> 00:08:56.899 and, you know, honest, frank conversations. And so I think the 126 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:01.340 first thing is to make sure that as soon as you know that you've got 127 00:09:01.379 --> 00:09:03.620 a problem with an employee that they know and that doesn't believe or not. 128 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:07.139 That doesn't usually happen. Usually you build a case and then all of a 129 00:09:07.179 --> 00:09:11.809 sudden go to the to the employee and address something and and they're surprised, 130 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:18.009 sometimes shocked, and that's always a problem. Nobody who is in that position 131 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:22.570 should ever be surprised or shocked. If that's the case, it's usually the 132 00:09:22.570 --> 00:09:28.600 firing managers issue. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things talking about 133 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.200 making sure that people feel valued is, you know, communicating that, no 134 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.120 matter who it is, just intrinsically as a person and also as an employee 135 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:43.269 to some organization, everyone has value. Speak a little bit, Bill, 136 00:09:43.309 --> 00:09:48.429 and the way that you've you've seen that done effectively. To communicate that isn't 137 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:50.789 just kind of the placid you know, we know you're a great person, 138 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:56.940 it just didn't work out here, but really communicating that maybe this wasn't the 139 00:09:56.019 --> 00:10:01.419 right fit, maybe we missed in the hiring process, which we've we've gone 140 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:05.539 through a process before of letting someone go and realizing that, hey, the 141 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:09.850 way that we communicated what the job would be was off a little bit and 142 00:10:09.970 --> 00:10:13.009 that maybe wasn't the entire you know reason that this didn't work out, but 143 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:18.649 it was a contributing factor in ways that we do follow up. We communicate 144 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.159 that value and what other folks could maybe learn from that process and implement themselves. 145 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.919 Sure, well, loving your right. Everybody's got value, and so 146 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.799 the first thing we do is try to redeploy skills. Right if there's another 147 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.120 place or another part of the organization that makes sense, and I've seen sweetish 148 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.350 through that in a couple instances very successfully. I would say that's more the 149 00:10:39.429 --> 00:10:41.750 exception than the rule, but I think that that's one way you show someone 150 00:10:41.789 --> 00:10:45.830 value, is to say, listen, this isn't a fit, but our 151 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:50.539 first option is not to show you the door but to show you another way 152 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.700 to put those skills to work. So I move someone from one department to 153 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:58.740 another or look at can we restructure their role in their responsibilities in a way 154 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.059 that fits with the value that we see that they they do deliver in a 155 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:05.809 certain area. Right, right, right, and that would be, of 156 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:11.049 course, assuming the fact that they that the issue is not culture or attitude 157 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:16.090 or work ethic. I mean those things are very difficult to rehabilitate and sometimes 158 00:11:16.169 --> 00:11:20.919 only discovered after you work with somebody for a few weeks or a few months. 159 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:26.320 So I think transparency is is important, and then just direct honesty, 160 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.440 to be very direct with people about how you perceive the situation and give them 161 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.190 a voice, give them a chance to feedback as well. We're learning just 162 00:11:33.309 --> 00:11:37.470 just like they are, and so the feedback that people have given us has 163 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.350 been helpful along the way. So I think a two way communication and then 164 00:11:41.470 --> 00:11:48.340 outlining a plan of action, giving thirty or sixty days to to reform if 165 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:52.659 there's an opportunity to do that before you give up on somebody, and have 166 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:56.820 having a very specific plan for that. Yeah, talk about this next phase, 167 00:11:56.899 --> 00:12:00.500 Bill, if you if you do try those options things don't work out, 168 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:03.450 the next phase they're, like you said, can be full of emotion. 169 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:07.490 You need to recognize that on both sides, right the person being let 170 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:13.129 go being disappointed for a variety of reasons, as well as their direct manager, 171 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:16.840 maybe feelings and frustration, those sorts of things. You've talked about writing 172 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:22.200 letters of recommendation, doing some some follow up after that exit conversation. You 173 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:24.840 know a lot of people have an exit interview and that's it. Can you 174 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.919 speak to some of those things that you've seen done well and how people can 175 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.309 maybe use them. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, the exit interview 176 00:12:33.389 --> 00:12:35.629 really is for the benefit of the company, the employer. Here's what I 177 00:12:35.789 --> 00:12:41.029 told our our HR group. ARE PEOPLE UPS team. Most people are good 178 00:12:41.029 --> 00:12:46.460 at hiring, or at least put significant effort into it. Most people are. 179 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:50.980 They suck at firing. So let's not suck at firing. Let's become 180 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.019 one of the best companies there is when it comes to letting people go. 181 00:12:56.700 --> 00:13:01.009 And so again that that has to do with how it's communicated. I had 182 00:13:01.009 --> 00:13:05.330 a situation not long ago where we had made a decision on the dismissal and 183 00:13:05.490 --> 00:13:09.490 the individual said to me, why can't I, just everybody else seems to 184 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:13.399 get a chance to work into another position? Why can't I have that same 185 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.799 position? And I just had to be I had to be honest with that 186 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.039 and I said, you know, first of all, there's just not another 187 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.519 place, there's not another need right now and secondly, based on what we've 188 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.669 talked about, if there were, I would not be able to recommend you 189 00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:33.590 for that. So he handled that. He accepted that. It was it 190 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:37.590 was truthful, but but kind and at the same time, as you mentioned, 191 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:41.179 I offered to write a letter of recommendation. Those are tricky, a 192 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.340 little bit tricky because you know you're letting them go for cause. But again, 193 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:52.580 as you mentioned, everybody's got value, everybody's got something to give and 194 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:56.730 everybody has a place in this world, and so the last thing I want 195 00:13:56.730 --> 00:14:00.450 to do as an employer is put somebody in a position where they go away 196 00:14:00.490 --> 00:14:05.289 defeated, too lated and have a difficult time getting their feedback under them. 197 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:09.169 So we do everything we can to keep that intact. And really the most 198 00:14:09.210 --> 00:14:13.000 challenging call, if put out to our people ops group, is to schedule 199 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:18.279 a call thirty days after every dismissal. In some ways that's a big ask 200 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.919 because, as you know, if you've ever had the occasion to let somebody 201 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.590 go, you're just glad it's over and you hope you don't run into him 202 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:31.470 in the grocery store. Right and what I would say is let's handle the 203 00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:35.990 dismissal in such a way that we have nothing to apologize for and in thirty 204 00:14:37.029 --> 00:14:41.259 days make a call follow up. One of our key values here is love 205 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.659 people well. Let's love them well as we say goodbye, just like we 206 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.299 love them well as we welcome them to the organization, because the truth is, 207 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:54.409 at one point in time everyone will exit, right. So let's let's 208 00:14:54.450 --> 00:15:00.169 concentrate on that process, let's be intentional and let's love people well. Man, 209 00:15:00.289 --> 00:15:03.009 I love that, Bill and I just appreciate you so much in different 210 00:15:03.009 --> 00:15:07.000 ways that you've helped lead our team and carry the banner, along with Ryan 211 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.639 and others on our team, of loving people well, and I think you 212 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:13.600 summed it up really well. It's really easy to say, Hey, we're 213 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.080 excited you're going to be coming on the team, we care about you, 214 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.509 we we value you. That's very easy, right, but to be able 215 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:24.909 to take that step, push through the discomfort or the awkwardness and that sort 216 00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:28.789 of follow up call, it also makes you accountable because if you know that 217 00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:33.909 you're going to make that call and in thirty days you're going to handle that 218 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:39.059 firing conversation, that that exit conversation, in a different way, because you're 219 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:41.340 going to be accountable to that future situation that you know you're going to put 220 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:46.100 yourself into, as opposed to well, I can kind of, you know, 221 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:48.019 treat it this way. That's not really in line with our values, 222 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:52.090 because I'm not going to see them again, I'm going to avoid them, 223 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.929 even if we are in the same town of the switch grocery stores, whatever 224 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:56.570 they the case might be. I like the way you put that. I 225 00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.169 think that's going to bring it home for a lot of people. Well, 226 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:03.009 I have to know it is especially difficult to handle it that way when you 227 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:07.919 have a difficult exit and understand there are all kinds of situations that exist, 228 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:14.080 but above and beyond all we want to handle people with respect and kindness. 229 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.830 Absolutely well, Bill, this has been a great kickoff to introducing you on 230 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.830 the behind the curtain series. I'm looking forward to being able to hop on 231 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:25.629 and riff with you. I feel like I learned so much every time I 232 00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:27.230 talk to you. We're just going to start recording them, so I'm not 233 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:30.950 the only one gaining from from your gray hair and wisdom, and I say 234 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.259 that not completely tongue and shake it. It really is true. We do 235 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:37.899 have a lot to learn from those on our team, those in our network 236 00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:41.659 that that have been through some things, that have some battle scars to show 237 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:45.980 and, and I say that with all sincerity bill, if anybody listening to 238 00:16:47.139 --> 00:16:51.730 this would like to reach out to bill myself, you can email us bill 239 00:16:51.850 --> 00:16:56.649 at sweet fish Mediacom, Logan at sweetphish Mediacom, feel free to reach out, 240 00:16:56.809 --> 00:17:00.210 connect with us on linkedin or shoot us an email. Also, we 241 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:04.720 are hiring. We are continuing to grow amidst these uncertain times. If anything 242 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.319 that that you've heard here and following along with what we're doing, how we're 243 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.400 growing, how we're approaching our growth here at sweet fish is intriguing to you, 244 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.269 or you just kind of intrigued by being behind the scenes and in podcast 245 00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:21.869 production and the things that we're doing for marketing teams, feel free to reach 246 00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:25.630 out to us. You can send an email to Ryan at sweetphish Mediacom. 247 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:30.220 Ryan drotty is our director of culture and people ops and is managing a lot 248 00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:33.299 of these things and making sure that we love people well, on boarding, 249 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.420 off boarding, all of these sorts of things. As always, thank you 250 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:44.410 so much for listening. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for 251 00:17:44.569 --> 00:17:48.490 reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful 252 00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:51.609 when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to 253 00:17:51.690 --> 00:17:53.930 do. If you leave a review for me to be growth in apple podcasts 254 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:59.839 and email me a screenshot of the review to James At sweetphish Mediacom. I'll 255 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:03.400 send you a signed copy of my new book. Content based networking. How 256 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.640 to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, 257 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:07.839 you get a free book. We both win.