Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hey everyone, logan with sweet fish
here. As you may already know,
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we've had the HASHTAG agency series running
for a while now here on bb growth.
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Over the next several weeks you'll be
able to listen in to select episodes
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of the Innovative Agency, hosted by
Sharon Tork as she leads conversations with agency
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leaders about how their teams are staying
on the cutting edge of marketing trends,
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how they're adapting their businesses to meet
new challenges and a whole lot more.
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All right, let's get into the
episode. Welcome everybody back to another episode
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of the Innovative Agency. Great to
be with you here again. Today it's
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share and Tork and as we cruise
towards the calendar end of two thousand and
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nineteen, as I sit here,
I definitely have content marketing on my mind
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because I know we are, certainly
at my firm, working on our year
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end business planning for two thousand and
twenty, and that includes marketing planning and,
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as I'm sure all of you are
experiencing for your agencies or for your
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clients, content marketing is a huge
part of of that planning, at least
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for most of us, and so
where are we with content marketing as we
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cruise into two thousand and twenty?
I know it just to having attended content
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marketing world in Cleveland a few months
ago. Her a lot of different points
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of view about content saturation, about
how to be smart about curating content,
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how to avoid overwhelming your audience,
all that stuff, and so I am
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thrilled today to welcome and ask Fort
to our conversation, welcoming xenia mount into
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the podcast. Senia, thank you
so much for joining us today. Thank
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you so much as well for inviting
me, and I'm hyped to do this.
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I'm looking forward to the conversation as
well and I'm really hope, I'm
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really hoping that we tell as much
of your story as possible today, because
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I think that agency owners are going
to be inspired by what you're doing over
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at planable, which is your company
right now. But first let's talk a
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little bit about how you how you
formed your company and what your path has
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been up until founding plannable just a
couple years ago. Right. Yeah,
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yeah, so we started plantable about
three years ago and before that, all
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you know where three founders behind plannable. All of us have worked in the
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agency world, and I'm myself have
started a digital marketing agency before plannable and
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I was doing mostly social media marketing
work, but also content for branding work
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for clients. And one of the
issues that I had with with my agency
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was that I felt the way I
was working internally, but also externally with
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client and was very, very messy, very complex, very bit outdated.
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You know, some millennial I grew
up with easy to use APPS and then
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with my work I had to use, you know, Microsoft Office and Excel
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files and just always spend time on
email. So I felt like the work
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around work, the workaround content,
was very fragmented and a lot of time
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was wasted on just tedious task that
could have been automated or streamlined in a
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way. We were spending, you
know, time planning content in this cell
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files that were being sent around internally
before you representing them to the client and
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that, you know it cell file
was being sent around between designers, culture
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writers, account managers and so on, and then, when approved internally,
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was sent to the client, and
I felt that that was just so terrible
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real working, because the excel file
is not a visual environment to showcase work
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and you're building innovative, gorgeous visual
assets, but you surecating them in an
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excel file or in a deck,
and I feel like that was not just
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the best way to communicate my work
to clients and to get you a very
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constructive feedback from them. So like
I was just wasting a lot of time
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building those decks, formatting those those
spreadshets and just trying to centralize the feedback
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that I was getting on on email
and in chats on the phone from clients.
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So I felt that that was a
very frustrating way of working for me
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back in my agency days and I
was trying to find a solution to just
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streamline this entire work. So I
had with my team and with my clients
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and when, you know, when
I didn't find anything that fits into what
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I envisioned, that you know when
I started building plannable together with with Michael
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Founders, and now we're helping both
agencies, but also internal and House Marketing
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Department to be more organized and more
productive and more efficient and the way they
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work as a team on content.
Well, I love your story for a
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number of reasons. If any of
my listeners know me at all, they
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know that I always love to showcase
experiences and agencies who have innovative solutions.
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Two things have by productizing those solutions, turning their intellectual cap but all either
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something that they've developed to serve a
client in a particular way or something that
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they've developed to make their own work
easier, and they actually turn it into
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a solution that can help a lot
of people. That's always very exciting to
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me self. Congratulations on that.
You're an example of an agency owner who
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did that and you kind of double
down on it because you're not running an
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agency anymore. Correct you've found a
Plana male and that's your full time effort
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now. Yeah, thank you first
of all, and yes, I I
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I close my agency. I decided
to go all in one, plantable and
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fully, you know, work on
this new company and it's been three years
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since we've been building it and I
do not recombate it, I'll need one
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single moment. I've ever regraded,
started Gig and just moving away from the
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agency life. I feel like building
a tech company shits me so much better.
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I love the fact that I have
direct access to my to my client
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and I can see how that impact
their businesses and how the product just scales
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across their own organizations but across,
you know, different clients. So I
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just love building a product. I
feel like that's just the best experience I've
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ever hand in my career so far. That's great. Well, I always
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love highlighting stories like that. So
that's a great entrepreneurship story and it's a
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great example of an agency taking it's
an oattional capital and turning in into something
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that can is sustainable on its own. Well, let's recom a content marketing
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itself as a discipline, because I'm
sure you have some strong points of view,
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having been a content marketer before you
found a plannable and now seeing content
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marketing done in real time as your
clients use your product. One of the
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things I hear from a agencies is
that it is really hard to curate or
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or commit their clients to curate the
right kinds of content and to keep it
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focused, and therefore there's there's no
shortage of content, even good content,
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but the clients are always putting pressure
on them for Roi because maybe it's not
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the right content or the right blend
of content. So what's your point of
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view on where we are right now
with how effective content marketing is? And
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and how we're doing it. Well, are badly. I think it's you
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know, everyone's talking about content marketing
nowadays, but looking at all of the
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other segment of marketing in general,
content, content marketing itself, this quite
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in you marketing makes it's a new
it's a new part of the entire marketing
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world. So I think it's normal
for for clients to still, you know,
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be skeptical because a new and new
initiative and new and new project for
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most of them. So I understand, you know, their skepticism and want
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why? They you know, want
to see a bit more result in this
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industry and so on. Also because
it's just so new. I mean it's
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not really new, but if you
look at the entire history of our thing,
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it is very, very, very
new. So if you look at
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the history of contum marketing, you
know a few years ago, a couple
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of years ago, marketers, very
few marketers, knew how to measure the
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results of their content marketing. It
was really hard even with you know,
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even if you look at the subcategory
of contum eorketing, social media marketing,
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you know, a few years ago
we were measuring, you the results and
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the impact of your social media marking
effort by how many likes your page had.
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And in the meanwhile, you know, we've learned that that's not necessarily
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the best metric to measure your success. So things are changing and we're learning
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more and more about what content marketing
should be about, and now I think
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it's just a better we have more
knowledge to actually say what's working and what's
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not and how to measure and how
you set up your your processes and how
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should you shit set up your analytics. So I think today and two thousand
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and nineteen, engineend of two thousand
and nineteen, or just in a better
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place as marketers to know what success
should look like for a marketing campaign.
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So I think you know this and
you can see that in how marketing budgets
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are spent. You know, I
think a year ago, from from the
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reports that I've read, a year
ago, content represented, you know,
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a fifth of the entire marketing budget
and now it's approaching a Hulf of marketing
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budgets. I think that's just a
huge, huge difference and it just really
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showcases how big content is becoming and
how how much more marketers, agencies and
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brands at the same time or trusting
this new direction of marketings. That I
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think that's that's great. I think
that it's just becoming so much more important
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for us and I just I'm cheering
this new change. Well, you have
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a point of view, though,
about it with respects to I guess it's
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I would say it's with respect to
collaboration, or maybe maybe it's with respect
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to just the volume of content world
supposed to but you have a point of
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view that you call content paralysis,
and tell tell everybody a little bit more
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about what you mean by sort of
an epidemic of content paralysis and how that
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affects the work that marketers do.
Yeah, definitely. So, I think
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you know, with this new huge
rise and content marketing, that has come
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with a lot of complexities. So
it's definitely created a lot of opportunities for
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brands to express themselves in new ways, to reach consumers and in new and
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more meaningful ways, but it's also
it has also come with a lot of
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complexity, and that complexity comes from
the fact that the just so much,
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so, so many more people involved
in this content and in content marketing teams.
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So the headcount has grown, working
budgets have grown as as I mentioned
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before, but our processes and the
way we work didn't adapt to this new
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direction of marketing because it has grown
exponentially. It has risen so fast that
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we haven't been able to build specific
operations and specific processes around, you know,
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working with content. So that means
that way, to just adapted traditional
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ways of working in this engineering tools, it's engineering systems and probably the engineering
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mentality that we've had overall with marketing. We haven't built anything native for the
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content marketing work. So that generated
a few problems. You know, the
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fact that we're working with juneeric tools
which, as you know, parad chiefs
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and email, the fact that we're
organizing our content engineering clote systems like drive
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and and drawbox and other, you
know, cloud hosting tools, all those
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tools have not been built with what
content marketing in mind. Their geneeric tools.
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That you can, you know,
you can make them work for your
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use case, but it's hard work
and in the end you you know,
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a lot of time is being wasted
on just making them work for your for
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your own workflow, for your own
team, for your going Zation, and
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you know a lot of time is
still you're still going to spend on constantly
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tweaking them so that it fits into
what you need and all those, you
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know, problems when you're putting them
all together create this content palsies. And
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what I what I mean by content
paralysis the fact that your processes and your
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operations haven't been built to reflect this
new age marketing and they're going to slow
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you down in the end. So
you're not going to be able to produce
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as much content as you need,
either as an agency for your clients either
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as a brand for your own consumers. You just going to you're not going
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to be able to move as fast
as you need because you have that you
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haven't built the proper workflow for this
specific part of the entire marketing. Next,
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so you're not going to be able
to actually cover the entire demand of
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content because you haven't made the nod, that you haven't really a pot through
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of how how destructure, how should
you organize, what should be the operations
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around content production? So I think
that's, you know, that's what we
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call content paralysis and sure it's a
very dramatic term, but even if you
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look at some of the reports out
there in the industry, like the forster
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one, you know you're going to
see that by two thousand and twenty and
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twenty s approaching, so it's already
here. I think that report was a
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bit was a bit old, but
they were saying something like by two thousand
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and twenty, content is going to
become marketers because bottle depth, because it
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takes a lot of the effort and
rescourses to build content. If you don't
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have a very productive and very efficient
way of doing that, they're not going
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to be both to scale. So
you're going to you're going to tagnate and
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you're going to experience, you know
this termal hard process. Yeah, well,
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I wonder too. I mean I
think even I think it's certainly is
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time intent of intensive to create the
content, but even curating the content that
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you want to showcase to your brand's
customers is very time intensive and, and
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I feel like this based upon what
agency clients tell me and what I just
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read and the industry press. I
feel like all the workflow that surrounds content
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itself plus or combined with the dynamic
nature of all the tools that we use,
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right, because there's always going to
be a new platform, right.
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I mean yesterday it was tick Tock, tomorrow it's going to be. Who
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knows what? We just want to
know what's what's the next hot thing is,
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yeah, and expand wagon might be. So between those two things,
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right, just the abundance of content
and then the abundance of platforms or our
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tactics. Where's the time for strategy, right? I mean that's what this
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all needs to be, starting with
wor's time to really think hard about the
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why or the strategy of why you're
doing what you're doing, because at the
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end of the day, your content
strategy should be about something. Right,
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either you're trying to write, push
it, push it, cause forward,
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or you're trying to sell widgit,
or you're trying you're trying to do something.
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But if all of our resources are
jammed up in the production end of
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things, are we really spending enough
time to take a step back and breathe
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and determine whether or not this fits
with our strategy overall, for for our
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brand? And I think because of
that it's really hard to prove our Oli
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or it's getting easier now. I
mean, like you said, the metrics
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are getting easier to understand or or
we have a better sense of what the
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right ones are now, and we
did ten years ago, but for me
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it just feels like there's not enough
time to breathe and ask the strategic questions
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before the workflow starts. I one
hundred percent agree. I think it's absolutely
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vital for you is either an agency
or a business. It's just absolutely vital
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to set aside the time for just
deep thinking. I think that's the extremely
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important that I'm trying to do.
That then my in my own business right,
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because just the day to day work
usually keeps you hostage well a week.
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So if you don't block time for, you know, strategy, for
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thinking about the bigger stuff, it's
never going to happen. And that kind
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of fits into the vision of planable
and what we're trying to do because we,
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you know, we feel like a
lot of time is being spent on
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this, you know, day to
day's stuff, on this, you know
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work about work stuff, and you
know, we don't want agencies. Agency
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people are probably the most burned out
people in the marketing world and I think
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something that we want to eat some
of that pain by trying to at least
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reduce that work about work, to
just reduce all those tasks, all those
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mechanical tasks that can be automated by
software like plannable, so that you have
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the more time to think about strategy, to be more creative, to get
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inspired, to just dip think about
important stuff, and I think that's extremely
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important, because it's also very important
to think about those things early on,
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to think about those processes and how
how can you be more productive as a
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content marketer, because if you don't
do those stuff, you know it's going
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to be harder and harder to change
that the more your team grows, the
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more your organization grows. It's extremely
important to do that early on because that's
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going to help you and time,
gain more time to think about strategy and
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all those useful things that you share
mention. Well, yeah, I think
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it's a great point. So I
wonder if, for the benefit of the
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agency owners and leaders who might be
listening this today, you have the you're
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sitting in a unique seat of somebody
who not only ran an agency who turned
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out a lot of content marketing for
its clients, to now running to have
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and created a technology platform to help
agencies and brands do just that. So
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I'm expecting that you probably have a
point of view. are a few tips
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for agencies and how to collaborate successfully
with their clients about their content, marketing
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campaigns. So many sort of thoughts. They're about success and what makes I
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know you created a tool to make
it easier, but what are some of
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the other things that you notice working
with teams that you know cross over from
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the agency to the brand? That
makes it easier to be successful here,
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I think it's very important how you
establish the relationship with your clients very early
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on, if you make things extremely, extremely clear and you make like,
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you know, a set of rules
basically on how you can indicate what your
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processes are going to be, if
you math at all very early in the
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beginning. I think that's going to
set up the expectations of the clients.
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It's just going to make things easier
to communicate. So I think if you
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if you manage that early on,
if you make a plan on how you
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US an agency and the clients are
going to communicate on the project from the
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campaign, if you just, you
know, not out everything, if you
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think it through, I think that's
really helps. That's one tactic for sure.
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But then for me, you know, personally back in my agency days,
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but also looking at some of our
customers, I think involving the client
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and during the creation process, during
the production process, not just, you
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know, showing the results, the
the content in the end, but also
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getting them involved with early on helps
us well because it might help with,
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you know, spotting, you know, mistakes and the direction that you're taking
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with the content, figuring out it. That's a good start, that's a
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good direction with where you want to
take the content very early on and not,
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you know, just do the content, finish it and then throw it
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away because you know, there wasn't
a understanding it on, you know,
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the brief and the peach. So
I think it's involving the client, making
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the work as transparent as possible to
the client and, you know, having
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iterations together with the client very early
on in the process of producing the content.
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I think that helps a lot with
communication this entire you know, transparency
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and, you know, having like
very genuine communication with them. Those two
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things are extremely important and just aligning
yourself with what the with what the business
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needs, with what the client needs, where they are, their expectation,
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whether they're trying to achieve with that, with that content, to just fully
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fully sinking with the client, aligning
yourself with them. I think those,
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you know, building this type of
alignment, building this type of coordination,
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but also this type of quality and
transparency into your relationship or the client very
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early on. I think thinking to
go through those principles and just building this
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type of framework is especial that.
I think, you know, the agencies
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that I've seen doing this, there's
a smaller chance of misunderstanding happening down the
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road. That's completely makes sense to
me, and I also think it's healthy
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to have a conversation up front about
which specific metrics might be meaningful for the
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campaigns that you're going to be because
not every metric is going to be appropriate
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for every type of strategy or campaign
and sometimes, sometimes perhaps the metrics she
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thought were going to be relevant unit
adjusting thing. Yeah, yeah, you
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have to adjuster thinking of what they
are and, and, to your point,
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being transparent about that. I think
makes a lot of sense right.
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Well, yeah, I have really
enjoyed talking with using you and sharing your
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story. I love how you took
a problem and turn it into a solution
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and I think that the agency folks
listening to this today are going to learn
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a lot about content marketing in general, but about how to be more successful
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about it as well. So thank
you so much for sharing your time and
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your wisdom. If folks want to
reach out and learn more about you and
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about plannable, where's the best place
for them to get information? Yeah,
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00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:30.849
definitely so. Our website is plannable
dot Ioh and you can find me on
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Linkedin. I spent quite a lot
of a lot of my time there.
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And Yeah, than me and I
would love to chat with anyone and the
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agency world and try and thank you
so much for doing this episode with me.
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I'm mixed heightened to save live.
I'm excited to I appreciate you spending
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time with us today. So see
you on team. Thank you for joining
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00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.470
us on the innovative agency today and
we will talk with you all on the
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00:23:56.549 --> 00:24:00.789
next episode. Thanks for joining us
today. We really hope you enjoyed this
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episode in the Hashtag Agency series from
the innovative agency. To hear more episodes
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00:24:07.829 --> 00:24:11.460
along these lines, check out the
innovative agency in Apple Podcast, your favorite
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podcast player or the links right in
the show notes for this episode. As
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00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:22.339
always, thank you so much for
listening. Is the decisionmaker for your product
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or service a BEDB MARKETER? Are
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