Affinity > Awareness | The Journey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:20.160 Welcome back to be to be growth. My name is James Carberry and the 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.440 founder of sweet fish, and I'm joining today by our director of audience growth, 4 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:28.719 Dan Sanchez, affectionately known as Dan chaz on, linked in our favorite 5 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:34.320 social platform. So today is another episode of our series that we're calling the 6 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:39.679 journey. So we are on a mission here and we are trying to become 7 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:45.079 the go to media property for B two B marketers, and there's actually some 8 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:49.240 different language that we're gonna be using that I don't want to share just yet. 9 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:53.079 Just in a few minutes Dan and I are going to be unpacking the 10 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.880 specific kind of burbage of our mission, but I wanted to set some context, 11 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.560 and that's essentially, you know, what the entire series about is this 12 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.959 journey that we're on to build B two B growth as a media property. 13 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:10.200 Everybody's talking about building a media property, you know, build a media company 14 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:14.640 inside of your niche. That's exactly what we are setting out to do and 15 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:19.319 we want to document all the different things that that we've been thinking about on 16 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:23.719 that path to doing just that. So Dan set us up today with mission 17 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.239 and what we're going to be talking about as it relates to the mission of 18 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:34.120 Bob Growth. The mission right usually think of like organizational strategy and planning and 19 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.799 all that kind of stuff. I think the reason why we're thinking about it, 20 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.079 even on the marketing is because of what Andy Raskin has been doing. 21 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:47.480 Like we're all talking about this strategic narrative and it's even part of why we're 22 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:49.680 sharing it as we come along, because we're not a hundred percent on it 23 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:56.239 that we think we're getting pretty Dann close. The strategic narrative assumes that you 24 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.920 came from somewhere and that you're going forward towards a dusk nation of some kind 25 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.000 and there's a story of why you're going there. So last week we talked 26 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.479 about like why we're really grabbing onto B two B and why we're like, 27 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.919 you know, graduating on from B to c into this awesome wonderland called B 28 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.039 two B and the part of that right, just just to give people the 29 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:23.199 context as to why brands need a villain, and the most iconic brands all 30 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:28.240 have villains. They're fighting something, whether it's Chris Walker fighting marketing, attribution 31 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:32.400 drift, fighting forms salesforce, uh, fighting, what was it? Uh? 32 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:38.840 On Prem software, on premise software. These iconic brands all have enemies, 33 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:44.080 and so we had to really define what is the enemy of B Two 34 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:45.840 B growth? If we're, you know, if we're going to treat B 35 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:50.520 to be growth like a business, like this media property, like a company, 36 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.039 then we've got to treat it like the best brands in the world. 37 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.879 And so identifying the villain of B two C plays really, really well for 38 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.319 us and it's something that took us. Took US several years to figure out 39 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.840 that that that was the thing. But now that we've got the villain locked 40 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:08.879 in, now we've got to get really clear on what our mission is. 41 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:14.439 Where are we going? Andy Raskin strategic narrative huge part of this. You 42 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:15.719 have to have a place of where you're going, and James and I have 43 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.759 been wrestling with this for well over a year because it's not easy. It's 44 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.000 so hard. You get caught into this nebulous place and then you even wonder 45 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:30.439 like, Oh wait, well, the company's narrative is this, and should 46 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.800 our show have a different thing going on? Like what's The podcast? Is 47 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.479 Our main media property? WHAT'S B Two B growth? Is supposed to have 48 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:39.240 a different one is supposed to link. You know, it's kind of like 49 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:45.400 a similar conversation is just around branding, right. You know, we a 50 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:46.919 branded house? Are we a house of brands? What are we doing? 51 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.800 It's the same kind of chicken and egg problem where you're not sure how which 52 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.639 one comes first and how they tie together. So if you're out there wrestling 53 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:59.560 with us, know that we're all freaking wrestling with this. This is this 54 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:01.759 is a hard problem and, honestly, something that James and I have even 55 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.759 said like, Oh, this is why cmos and like high level VPS get 56 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.280 paid the big bucks, because it's freaking hard and we've been on a journey 57 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.520 with this. So I wish we would have started like recording some of these 58 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.079 episodes like earlier so we could like even show our missteps. But Oh wow, 59 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:26.439 we haven't recorded those moving forward, so I'm not I'm not too worried 60 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:30.439 about not being able to share our missteps. Fair enough, what we're moving 61 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:33.600 forward now is the journey that we're going on and where where we're trying to 62 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:41.120 take people. Is this idea around becoming somebody's favorite versus becoming the best, 63 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.759 like even the way James opened it up. It's like the go to source. 64 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:46.560 That's so hard to to find. How do you know when you've reached 65 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.160 that? It's a really hard mission to actually attain. The most of us 66 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:55.480 kind of want to get there and what we've learned from our friend Jed Kenzo 67 00:04:55.800 --> 00:05:00.560 is that being the best is harder to find and even if you reach it, 68 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.639 what does that even mean? But being a favorite is something worth pursuing. 69 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:10.319 That idea to be the best. It's like you said, Dan, 70 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:15.240 it's so ambiguous. And being the best it's a personal thing. Like the 71 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:19.399 best liquorice on the planet to me is Red Vines, hands down. There's 72 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:28.160 no marketing that twizzlers can do to to change my favorite liquorice. And so 73 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:32.720 is twizzlers the best or is Red Vines the best? Well, it depends 74 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.639 on who you're talking to. But I can tell you that for me my 75 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:41.879 favorite. I can't determine what is best because it's it's such a personal thing 76 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:46.040 to me, but my favorite hands down. I will dog on anybody that 77 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:51.279 likes twizzlers over red vines. I will think your taste buds are broken if 78 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:56.480 you like twizzlers more than red vines, because red vines are my favorite. 79 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.040 They're nostalgic, they're my childhood. They're like what I remember going to get 80 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.360 after I mowed somebody's yard. I would get like red. I would go 81 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:08.079 to target and get a bag of red vines and just dominate them. You 82 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:13.800 can't replicate that, regardless of how good your marketing is, but you can 83 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:18.000 make your product so good. They made their products so delicious to me that 84 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:23.920 red vines became my favorite. And so I think when we think about our 85 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:28.040 mission here at sweet fish, like the specific verbiage that we're gonna use is 86 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.360 that we're on a mission to become ten thousand B two B marketers favorite show. 87 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:36.399 And we were talking even before we hit record here, like that's gonna 88 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.639 be tough to measure, like how do you how do you know whether or 89 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.519 not you're somebody's favorite show? My thinking right now, at least at the 90 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.120 time of this recording, is that we just asked people, and what I 91 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:53.040 foresee being tough is, like people are so accustomed to signing up or or 92 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:58.639 putting filling out a form to get something, whether that's a pdf or something 93 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.360 swag that they're going to get in the mail. And with this it's like 94 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.639 that's tough because if we say go, Hey, go to Bwi grow show 95 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:10.000 dot com, slash favorite and tell us whether this is your favorite show, 96 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.959 and if you do that, we're gonna like my my knee jerk is to 97 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.439 say, if you do that, we're gonna give you something. We'll send 98 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.360 you a copy of my book, will you know? We'll give you some 99 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.240 digital asset that's gonna help you get better at work. But if you do 100 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:25.639 that, then you've got people signing up because they want the thing, not 101 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.720 because we're actually their favorite show. And so I don't know, as we 102 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.480 were talking about that before, Dan, what are your thoughts on on measuring? 103 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.639 How do you think we should measure this show becoming our audiences favorite show? 104 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.199 Tough question. I think we'll learn a lot over the next few years, 105 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:46.040 though one thing I know for sure is that you can't just ask people 106 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.000 and then like Callie them up over a couple of years and then maybe you 107 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.120 get to ten Tho, because people's favorites sometimes change, especially with podcasts. 108 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.120 We've all gone through seasons where so and so is our favorite podcaster and then 109 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.319 it's dropped. So do you take it an aggregate or do you want ten 110 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.439 thousand at one time? And that's hard to measure at one time. For 111 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:09.040 sure, I would think if it's a podcast that you're aiming for, then 112 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:13.319 you should at least be seeing ten thousand plus downloads one episode. Right, 113 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.160 if your goal is ten thousand and it's their favorite episode, then they're all 114 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:22.759 going to download at least one episode, not the favorite. Yeah, their 115 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.720 favorite show. So yeah, if you would think, but you know with 116 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.360 different podcast players auto downloads. So so looking at downloads isn't necessarily at least 117 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.519 the thing it should be. It should probably be well north of ten thousand. 118 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.639 If it's ten thousand people's favorite show right right now, it would. 119 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:41.600 It needs to needs to be more, but it needs to be at least 120 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:45.240 that, probably at least double, probably maybe even ten X. I don't 121 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:50.159 know, like ten. In social media we know that that's like the one 122 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:56.600 or it's the ninety nine one rule, right. So for a hundred people 123 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.159 on the platform or lurkers or engagers, and one percent or creators, and 124 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.679 I actually think it flips to the other way around. I think I think 125 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:11.320 there lurkers, yes, sorry, lurkers, nine percent or engagers, one 126 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.600 percent are creators, right. So most people just listen, and I think 127 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.039 it's the same way here, like you'll have a lot of people that are 128 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.279 just lurking and kind of listening. It's one of many shows they listen to. 129 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.240 A bunch will be really big fans, but only a small percentage will 130 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.600 be your the top, the true fans, and I think that's probably where 131 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.519 they get to. Like you've heard that their phrase, like thousand true fans. 132 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.399 I forgot the guy who wrote the paper on that, that Tim Ferris, 133 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.639 like trumpets all over the place like a thousand true fans. It's probably 134 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.519 only one percent. So if you need a thousand truth Evans, you probably 135 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:46.679 need a a fan base or a group consuming your content in the hundred thousand 136 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.159 range, I would think. I want to go back, Dan to really 137 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:58.080 talking about why trying to achieve favoritism or being someone's favorite is so beneficial from 138 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.720 a business perspective. When I was talking about red vines earlier, and this 139 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.200 is this happens regardless of whether I'm recording an episode or not, there is 140 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.879 a passion that I have for Red Vines, liquorice. I would run through 141 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:15.679 a wall to fight somebody who thinks that twizzlers are better than red vines. 142 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:22.039 Imagine if you're able to create that kind of passion, you've got folks running 143 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:28.120 through a wall to advocate for your brand, whether it's your media property, 144 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.960 whether it's your company, if you can evoke that kind of passionate interest in 145 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.879 your brand. Man Back and we did. We did an episode. I 146 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:39.559 don't know if it's it'll be live yet when this one goes live, but 147 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.639 we talked about what the heck happened to drift in another series we're doing on 148 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.080 on B two. B growth called the Echo Chamber. And man back in 149 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.480 was when drift was in their heyday. You had passionate, passionate fans that 150 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:58.759 loved the brand of drift. They would go to their hyper growth events, 151 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.519 they would buy their swag, they would talk about the product on Linkedin and 152 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:09.799 on twitter. I mean they were passionate, passionate lovers of drift, the 153 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:15.000 product, but also the brand and the and the creative outside the box stuff 154 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:20.639 they did from in their marketing. And that's why I think striving to achieve 155 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.840 becoming someone's favorite is so strategic and so important. And so as you think 156 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.440 about Dan trying like okay, we want me to be growth to become ten 157 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:33.879 thousand B two B marketers favorite show. It's like doing the work of coming 158 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:35.840 up with the villain and the mission, I think is a is a huge 159 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.519 part of it. Like you want to be able to connect with people viscerally, 160 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.679 on an emotional level, and so by defining B two C as the 161 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.799 villain, by defining the mission of like trying to trying to achieve this favorite 162 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.399 status amongst, you know, ten thousand people, it gives somebody something to 163 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.639 want to be a part of. B Two B growth will be right back. 164 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.000 There are a lot of questions on marketers minds right now, and analyzing 165 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:09.799 the latest trends can be a full time job in itself. Can an a 166 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.960 R filter really improve brand awareness? Why are streaming ads so allowed? 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You want to be 174 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.679 able to connect with people viscerally, on an emotional level, and so by 175 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.440 defining B two C as the villain, by defining the mission of like trying 176 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:05.200 to trying to achieve this favorite status amongst, you know, ten thousand people, 177 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.480 it gives somebody something to want to be a part of. It actually 178 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.919 reminds me of the book tribal brand, which he did a fantastic job of 179 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:18.080 actually how to actually make a brand something that's actually strong and not just a 180 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:20.759 fancy logo, not just to look even if the designers are all happy with 181 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.799 it. There's something more to it. There's got it's got teeth to it, 182 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:26.919 which he really comes and brings it down, and I've actually had to 183 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:31.240 rephrase it because what he might call language, I'm like, it's more than 184 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.759 language. There's really core beliefs. You could call them core values, but 185 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.120 to call them core values makes it sound kind of corporate and glossy and something 186 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.840 that people don't actually really value. But I mean like the true values of 187 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.759 the things that will never change that you all your core founding team, or 188 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.039 like the all employees, hopefully you're vetting against, you know, are the 189 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.759 things that you're like. No, we will always believe in this. You 190 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.919 heard one of them earlier, the idea that favorite is better than best. 191 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.080 What we're really saying is one of our core beliefs is a fin is better 192 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.879 than awareness. A lot of people can know about us, but we want 193 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.519 people to have a strong affinity. That's a belief that we have at B 194 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.759 two B growth, and you can't change our minds about it now. We're 195 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:15.320 not going back and we will slam the other opinion all day. We don't 196 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.639 even care if they have better stats in some cases, like we don't care. 197 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.720 Okay, your data proves otherwise. Don't care. We know this is 198 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.080 true. Don't care. You can go do your thing. Well, they're 199 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.720 gonna do our things and we'll see who's right at the end. We're going 200 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:31.919 for it. You need core beliefs at its, a bunch of them that 201 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:37.039 all work together with the narrative that then you can flesh out into an actual 202 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.679 brand that's worth following. From the core beliefs comes the language, from the 203 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.879 core. From that language comes the ICONOGRAPHY, comes the design, you know, 204 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.240 the visual symbolism that represents things like you can't look at a Christian Cross 205 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.159 and just be neutral about it. You can't look at a swastika and just 206 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.759 be neutral about it. That symbolism means something. They're not just simple lines. 207 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.759 Both of those symbols are very simple lines, right, but they both 208 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.519 bring something to the surface because there's beliefs behind each of those, whether you're 209 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.200 four or against either of them. Right, your brand and your logo have 210 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.200 to represent something and that's the brands and their needs, the values underneath. 211 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:20.080 and honestly, they can't be normal values. They can't be values that everybody's 212 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.399 like, Oh yeah, we agree with that, because that's boring. They 213 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.360 honestly kind of need to be weird. You have to find your weird values 214 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.759 because that's going to make your brand so much stickier. It's the reason why 215 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.919 somebody wants to adopt your way of thinking as their own identity. It's it's 216 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.039 why the villain and the and the mission piece, I think, are such 217 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:46.600 a big part of building a brand that can become someone's favorite. The villain, 218 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.720 like, as we villainize B two C and talk about how B Two 219 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:52.639 B is the big kids table and B two B is where you grow up 220 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.960 in business when you really want to like do the adult work and do it 221 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.759 in a fun and refreshing way. Well, that is going to resonate with 222 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.440 a whole hopefully that resonates with a whole lot of people that feel the exact 223 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.279 same way. Like man, I used to do B two C two and 224 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.879 I also feel like I graduated, like I'm I'm able to make a more 225 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.639 significant impact on the business and B Two B, I'm able to be more 226 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.879 strategic in my decision making and and B two B. I'm able to do 227 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.720 all of these things in a way that I couldn't do whenever I was stuck 228 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.720 in my b two C role. And so by hearing a show that just 229 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.799 rails on B two c relentlessly talking about how much better B two B is, 230 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:37.639 well, they're able to voice something about your identity that you haven't necessarily 231 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:42.159 voiced before yourself. And so when you see Chris Walker seemingly come out of 232 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:48.159 nowhere over the course of three years and become like the go to voice in 233 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.200 B Two b marketing, what's because the favorite voice he said a lot of 234 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:57.799 things that people have been thinking for a while but hadn't quite articulated the way 235 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.440 he was able to articulate and I still think we've got a long, you 236 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.359 know, a long way to go and truly figuring out what are those things 237 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.920 that that lots of people are thinking that they just haven't figured out how to 238 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.160 articulate yet. Well, but dark social being one of those things that he 239 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.799 named and claimed marketing attribution and not overly, being overly reliant on what your 240 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:25.440 software is telling you, Hey, these leads are coming from, you know 241 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:29.200 search, when in reality you do self reported attribution and you figure out that 242 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:33.559 they heard you on a podcast or they found you through a former coworker that 243 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.279 told them about your product. And so, to your point, the beliefs, 244 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:42.240 the mission, the villain, so many of those things, I think 245 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:48.720 a lot of times people accidentally developed them, but then you've got brands that 246 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.400 that, like what we're trying to do, purposely create them and I think 247 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.640 we're going to get there a whole lot faster because we are purposeful in the 248 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.359 creation of the things that we believe make up a brand. And the book 249 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.720 you were referring to earlier primal branding. I think you know it's written by 250 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.599 guy named Patrick Handlon and the book was a little bit, you know, 251 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:14.319 weird and how it was organized, but the continents, I mean our our 252 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:17.480 friend tyed class or raves about this book. He's the one who turned US 253 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:19.640 onto the book and the ideas in the book, regardless of, you know, 254 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.599 being a little bit scattered from an organizational standpoint, the ideas in the 255 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:30.119 book are powerful and if you can reverse engineer your brand, whether it's for 256 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.920 the media property you're trying to build or your company, I think you're you're 257 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.880 going to be on the fast track to building a brand that can become someone's 258 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:41.160 favorite. You know, one of the things that gets me excited about this 259 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.920 mission, particularly because you might look at this and think, well, well, 260 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.640 that's great, that's a good mission for B twob growth and you guys, 261 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.119 but what's the mission we're all going there together on, and what I'm 262 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.720 hoping that this personal mission of ours inspires you to do is to do the 263 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.279 same thing, to build a tribe of one thousand, two thousand, Ten 264 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:06.880 thou true fans, ten thou people that can call your media property, whether 265 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.640 it's a blog or youtube channel or a podcast, whatever. It is their 266 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:15.920 favorite thing, one of their favorite things. I'm excited about that because the 267 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.519 more of us are doing this and B two be the more fun work becomes. 268 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.440 When you have some brands and some purpose and when you see it and 269 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:27.000 you're like yes, this is the thing and it's so cool that you want 270 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.400 to wear the logo on your t shirt, which is kind of like the 271 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.839 ultimate sign of a fanboy, right when you're just wearing the swag. I 272 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.920 heard Daniel Murray and Chris Walker talk about this on another podcast recently. It's 273 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.079 like the ultimate sign to brand affinity is when they just wear their logo across 274 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.079 the shirt or a hat or something. So I'm like, yes, that 275 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.400 that might be a sign of favorite. You know, when people are wearing 276 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:51.759 your stuff because you don't sports stuff that you're not like want to be associated 277 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:53.279 with. They want people to know that, yeah, this is me, 278 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.799 you don't understand, don't care, it's my favorite right. Not a bad 279 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.359 way to measure it. How many? How many people we got sport and 280 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.640 Swag? But the reason why I'm excited about it is because the more fun 281 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.759 we can bring to be to be, the more fun work becomes because B 282 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.119 two B serves other businesses and other people are working in those businesses, even 283 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.759 if there will be two. See, the more fun we can make work, 284 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:19.240 the better people's lives get, because we all spend how many hours, 285 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:26.799 James, of our lives? Our Life, nine thousand freaking hours of your 286 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.119 life is going to be spent at work. Let's make it something worth celebrating, 287 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.960 let's make it something worth like getting passionate and geared up for. If 288 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.359 we have to put ninety hours of our life into this thing. Let's make 289 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.119 it fun, let's bring some passion into it, let's have some brands where 290 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.519 we're gonna go like head to head on and be like no, this one's 291 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.000 better, no, this one's better, and we're just going after it right. 292 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.000 It's just more fun. Let's make the facts worth it. So, 293 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.519 while we're gonna BE PUSHING IT for B two B marketers, someone needs to 294 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.519 be pushing it for chemists working in the food industry, someone needs to be 295 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.920 pushing it for, I don't know, like all the other all the other 296 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.039 professions out there. Every profession needs this, for doctors in small hospitals, 297 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:10.880 like. There's so many professions and niches they need a favorite, they need 298 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.920 something to be passionate about in their work, and you can do that brand, 299 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:21.680 you can build the media property that becomes that chemist's favorite, favorite podcast, 300 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.200 favorite blog, favorite media brand. That being said, Dan, do 301 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.279 you want to tease what we're gonna be talking about in, uh, in 302 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.839 our next episode of the journey? Dang, the next thing was almost going 303 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.279 to be the thing around owned media, like we literally decided, almost decided 304 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.960 that owned media was going to be the thing. We decided to go be 305 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:45.039 two B was the thing, but owned media is still a big part of 306 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.400 what we have coming in next week's episode, when we do the next episode 307 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.720 of the journey, and so going going beyond the podcast and really talking about, 308 00:21:55.240 --> 00:22:00.680 you know, building a holistic media brand. I'm really, really excited 309 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:06.039 to talk about that. Dan. If folks aren't already following you, where's 310 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.359 the best place for for folks listening to this to follow you elsewhere? Linkedin, 311 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:15.480 DOT COM, slash iron slash digital marketing. Dan Man, I like 312 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.039 it when people come from the show over to Linkedin be like I listened to 313 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:22.079 the show. I'm like, yes, we got we just got a message 314 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.240 on on our I just got a message the other day on on Linkedin. 315 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.279 I shared it in our marketing slack. It was from Tricia Ruez and she 316 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.400 said James, the Echo Chamber. Yes, keep those episodes up. All 317 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.839 three of you, all together, bring so much value to the table. 318 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.759 So thank you, Tricia. That was that was for our Echo Chamber series. 319 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.240 Hopefully we start to see some messages like that for this series for the 320 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.400 journey. But if you have not already left a rating for B two B 321 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.839 growth either in spotify or apple podcast, make sure to do that. Those 322 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.599 ratings help us a ton as we are on this quest to become ten thousand 323 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:00.119 B two B marketers favorite show. Thank you so much for listening and we'll 324 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.799 talk to you soon.