1350: How-to Go From 1k to 10k LinkedIn Followers w/ Daniel Murray

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:08.869 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with sweet fish media, 2 00:00:08.990 --> 00:00:12.869 and today I'm joined with Daniel Murray, who is the senior manager of marketing 3 00:00:12.910 --> 00:00:17.429 operations at service Titan. Daniel, how you doing today? Good, finally 4 00:00:17.469 --> 00:00:23.100 get a meet and talk and facetoface for all this time engaging on Linkedin each 5 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:26.859 other. I know it is funny to be engaging with someone and only see 6 00:00:26.899 --> 00:00:30.660 their profile pick over and over again four months and then you're like finally get 7 00:00:30.699 --> 00:00:33.820 to meet them. Facetoface, it's always a fun experience. To kick things 8 00:00:33.859 --> 00:00:36.729 off, I'm just gonna throw a curveball at you and ask kind of a 9 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:40.810 random question to keep things fun. Daniel, if you could pick a super 10 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:47.049 power, what would you pick? This is a very good question. I 11 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:54.039 would say super smart. Super Smart, like almost like evil villain, or 12 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.520 like what's WHO's another one that's like this, like the blue the beast is 13 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:03.119 his name? Beast and Xmen. Yeah, he's really cool. I wouldn't 14 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:08.150 do one of the typical ones, like flying or time travel or something like 15 00:01:08.269 --> 00:01:12.230 that. I think like Super Smart, like a Tony Stick figure out everything. 16 00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:18.030 Yeah, like a Tony Stark type person. That's awesome. So in 17 00:01:18.189 --> 00:01:22.739 this episode I wanted to talk to Daniel about his linkedin game because Daniel has 18 00:01:22.780 --> 00:01:26.700 been growing and just exploding on Linkedin. I feel like I've been chasing his 19 00:01:26.859 --> 00:01:30.939 tale for the more months now as I've been trying to grow my own reach 20 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:33.930 on Linkedin. So I finally have Daniel on the show to talk about his 21 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:38.290 his linkedin game, about how he creates content, increasing his reaching growth, 22 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:42.969 what he does with his profile and any impacts he's seen on his company. 23 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:46.650 So let's jump into the first one day and you'll like when did you get 24 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:51.920 started just posting regularly on Linkedin and how did you kind of change your content 25 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:57.480 as you went along? Yeah, so I started early November last year just 26 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:02.590 posting just to see, like I heard from Gary v like okay, the 27 00:02:02.709 --> 00:02:07.109 region Linkedin is amazing and the reachion, Tick Tock, is amazing. So 28 00:02:07.150 --> 00:02:12.150 I wanted to go and test it. I posted a couple times, like 29 00:02:12.509 --> 00:02:17.780 I started posting every single day and to be honest, my content was average, 30 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:21.979 not that good, and I was like, Oh, I'm getting decent 31 00:02:22.180 --> 00:02:23.860 mount reach. Like for me, I like back in the day I was 32 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:27.780 like, Oh, a thousand viewers, like this is really cool, like 33 00:02:28.259 --> 00:02:31.849 I only have only had like one, one two hundred followers than like I 34 00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:37.090 was like okay, cool, started posting every single day, kept learning and 35 00:02:38.250 --> 00:02:43.530 I started once I started like looking at the top people doing it. I 36 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:46.960 started figuring out like what they're doing and more patterns, and I talked to 37 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.159 like some people who doing it well, like Brendon Rogers and stuff like that, 38 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:55.879 and just picked his brain on what he's been doing. You know. 39 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.550 Ultimately, like when it started, I started like the number one to both 40 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:05.789 get people as go niche like start off knee shy, started to broad at 41 00:03:05.830 --> 00:03:09.669 the beginning and I think that gave mixed signals to my audience and I also 42 00:03:09.789 --> 00:03:15.379 think I had like this initial following of like people I've met over the years 43 00:03:15.500 --> 00:03:19.379 that weren't in my knee. So like I had to start attracting people in 44 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:23.379 my knees. That's interesting. Tell me like what was too broad and then 45 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:27.650 what became just right when it comes to like the topics you talk about. 46 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:31.090 Yeah, so I was like okay, I'm going to have three pillars. 47 00:03:31.129 --> 00:03:37.370 I'm going to post about Mark General Marketing, I'm going to post about like 48 00:03:37.729 --> 00:03:39.930 what it's like working in startups, and I'm going to post for like advice 49 00:03:40.050 --> 00:03:45.319 for like people and their s. So I went all but I went broad. 50 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:50.599 It was really funny because I'm glad it start with marketing, Buton the 51 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.599 vice for like s was like the content. That was like actually going going 52 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.669 well at the beginning. But I was like, okay, I want to 53 00:03:58.789 --> 00:04:02.509 brand myself as like someone who knows stuff about marketing. I want to like 54 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:06.870 attract markers, I want to learn from other markers. So I just ultimately 55 00:04:06.909 --> 00:04:11.259 decided to like, my reach is lower and market that topic now. But 56 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:16.540 if I start doing a regular basis, people start like coming back and people 57 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:21.259 will started word of this board and mouth will happen, this network effect that 58 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:25.970 happens on Linkedin when someone makes it in the in the marketing field, goes 59 00:04:26.009 --> 00:04:29.610 to their audience. So I decided, let me just stick with marketing. 60 00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:32.129 I did that and I wasn't seeing very good reach of the beginning, and 61 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:39.480 then I just learned how to write content. I continuously practice writing and like 62 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:45.199 studying good writers and studying the post of people doing it well, and then 63 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:50.079 it started picking up after I started doing that. So to give me a 64 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.829 few examples of what it means to write well, what is good writing on 65 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:59.829 Linkedin? Yeah, so I think optimizing for like the first sentence is like 66 00:04:59.910 --> 00:05:03.949 key, like that's the initial sentence that like graps the user. That I 67 00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:09.379 think like it actually is the first three. But your first sentence is what 68 00:05:09.740 --> 00:05:15.740 initially grab someone. Second would be like the goal of the first second sentences. 69 00:05:15.779 --> 00:05:19.180 Get someone the second and the third, and then linkedin. It's like 70 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:25.009 to get them to click see more. So I usually like the first three 71 00:05:25.089 --> 00:05:30.250 sentences. I like teaser bit or like something like I have like six things 72 00:05:30.329 --> 00:05:34.009 I usually do. Like one is more like an AH thing. One is 73 00:05:34.089 --> 00:05:39.480 like a stat that I come up with. Someone is more like practical, 74 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:45.079 like actionable item that I will like I'll put in there. One is like 75 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:50.189 kind of taking a stand and something that people might disagree or agree with. 76 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:57.269 So I optimize for those type of things and then I don't Click Bait because 77 00:05:57.310 --> 00:06:01.110 I give value when they've read read the post. But the first three is 78 00:06:01.230 --> 00:06:05.420 just like marketing one on one. It's like like optimize for the headline first, 79 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:10.939 like you read that an all copywriting books. Like pretty much it's like 80 00:06:11.060 --> 00:06:14.060 mark yeah, like if you're a marketer and you'd can't do that, then 81 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.339 you need up your game and practice, and Lincoln's good place to practice, 82 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:20.730 right hmm, learning how to take something that could be boring and they make 83 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:25.850 it it interesting. For example, for the listeners, like we'll take website 84 00:06:25.889 --> 00:06:29.810 optimization, which may be split testing and stuff could look kind of nerdy and 85 00:06:29.850 --> 00:06:31.920 kind of like well, like that looks not fun, but if you'd started 86 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.360 it off with something like does your website suck? Here's how you can know. 87 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.800 You know, and then you talk about split testing or something to find 88 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:45.120 out. And I think something that evokes emotion is like what I tried to 89 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.910 go for or something that like even when I do my personal post, I 90 00:06:47.949 --> 00:06:55.550 always started with like a line that was like I felt ashamed and they're like 91 00:06:55.629 --> 00:06:58.269 Oh, what was you ashamed about? And then I'll go into, I 92 00:06:58.350 --> 00:07:00.029 guess, more of a story about like what I felt, but it's like 93 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:04.779 intrigues the readers to come and read the post. I would also say, 94 00:07:04.899 --> 00:07:09.540 like I know we're talking. We'll talk about this a little bit later, 95 00:07:09.579 --> 00:07:15.139 but like optimizing your picture and what your title says in the post is a 96 00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:19.009 key to because like your your picture is going to like show like okay, 97 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:27.129 this is like a real person and they're actually like professional and the the headline 98 00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:30.160 will be like, okay, what's there? What they're talking about? So, 99 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.639 like, I think it's just like people miss that part of it as 100 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:40.240 well. I think like that part shows new, New People, like who 101 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:43.920 is this person, like, what do they do? And then your copy 102 00:07:44.389 --> 00:07:49.470 is like what grabs them and keeps them reading? Absolutely so we all know 103 00:07:49.589 --> 00:07:55.750 it's like vital to get good content out there. How much content is enough 104 00:07:55.910 --> 00:07:59.500 content? Would you say more is better, or is there a certain amount 105 00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:01.660 of content you trying to push out there on a daily basis? I would 106 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:05.779 say I'm more is always better in my point of view, but it not 107 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:13.290 as the sacrifice of being too terrible. I think, like I saw this 108 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:20.410 quote on twitter, like B plus content with a plus consistency. So your 109 00:08:20.449 --> 00:08:24.889 content should be above average, but the consistency should be like perfect. So, 110 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:28.199 like, I think, and I also think that, like a lot 111 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.080 of people, this is where a lot of people get hauled up, like 112 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:35.360 Oh, I need this perfect piece, but it's better to have five average 113 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.399 pieces than one good piece of week, because you're going to get into like 114 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:45.909 the cycle more people's feeds and have your one post that might get traction that 115 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:48.309 you might think is good, but the audience this might not think it's good. 116 00:08:48.429 --> 00:08:52.590 So I think we're pretty close to a line there. I'm usually pushing 117 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.220 like volume, like just do more, take more swings. You know, 118 00:08:56.259 --> 00:08:58.620 it's kind of a Gary v thing, like just go, try more and 119 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:03.779 you will figure out what's good, kind of approach. Right. When you 120 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:07.220 say consistency, like what does that mean to you? Is that mean like 121 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:09.899 if you choose to do daily, you need to stick to daily, or 122 00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:13.049 can you take a few days off? Like what what is consistency mean? 123 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:18.450 I mean for me it's Daily. I haven't taken a day off. Actually, 124 00:09:18.769 --> 00:09:22.090 when I first started was just during week days and then I realized I 125 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:26.120 will started posting weekends and weekends are actually very good to post. So I 126 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:33.399 do post daily. I think like it's good to have a social cleanse sometimes, 127 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.519 but for me, like if you it's just like marketings of moments and 128 00:09:37.629 --> 00:09:41.389 game to me. So it's like you got to keep the momentum going. 129 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.789 It's like I used to play football in college and it was just like every 130 00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:50.990 time you get a TV time out, that's like you ruin your momentum. 131 00:09:50.070 --> 00:09:54.740 Put like the next drive and football. So it's like. That's how I 132 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:58.259 feel about like taking days off when you're posting. It's like you were in 133 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:03.740 everybody's feed and you not becoming forgotten for a couple days and then you trying 134 00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:05.820 to come back into someone's feed. It's like you lose a little bit of 135 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:11.090 moment and take it one step back, and my point of view, that's 136 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:13.049 interesting. I kind of like to think about it. If you're just getting 137 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:20.049 started, being extra consistent really matters, not because I think taking a day 138 00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:22.240 or two off, or even a week off is really going to hurt you 139 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.879 and engagement, but because you need it in order to build the muscle, 140 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.519 the habit right. And once you have the habit or the muscle of creating 141 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.279 content, it's easy to step back into the rhythm. If you go on 142 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.990 vacation or something, you you know you you just wanted to step away from 143 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:39.350 doing linkedin fur bit, and it's easy to it's kind of like lifting weights, 144 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:41.629 right, you can lift weights and then take a week off. Sir. 145 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:45.350 It's not as easy getting back in, but it's way easier than just 146 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:48.870 starting right. Yeah, I think that is a muscle you should build with 147 00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:54.820 any part of marketing is like consistently creating. Speed is like an advantage because, 148 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:58.460 like, the more you create fast, the more you learn, the 149 00:10:58.580 --> 00:11:01.460 more you get better and the more you can see see the results, like 150 00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:05.610 come, come back, I could you post once a week. It's like 151 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:07.809 the result, only you get to go on. You see the results one. 152 00:11:07.889 --> 00:11:11.929 So we when you're posting daily or even two times a day, you 153 00:11:13.009 --> 00:11:16.129 can see like how your the audience, is reacting with your post, how 154 00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.960 people are receiving it, like how, even if you don't get a lot 155 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.480 of engagements, I love comments because that tells me a lot more of the 156 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.879 story than like the likes to because it tells me like it gives its actually 157 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:33.669 learning from me, and then it also gives me momentum to like and ideas 158 00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:39.070 to for my next post, because I'm actually like listening to like Oh, 159 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:41.470 some people say. I Oh, I would like to see more of this, 160 00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:43.870 or they all say that I'll see like a similar or trend to people 161 00:11:43.950 --> 00:11:46.820 posting like the same type of thing. I'm like, okay, they'll be 162 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.860 a good next post, because I fifty people just said that they the same 163 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:54.460 exact thing in my post. Gotcha. So when you do that, do 164 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:58.580 you like take a counterpost or do you get kind of go with the General 165 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:03.169 Direction people are gone with? So every like idea I have, and this 166 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:07.370 is how I create content, is anything I read, anything I see on 167 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:11.169 Linkedin, anything I see on twitter, anything I see on a youtube video. 168 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:16.600 I take notes and put it in the notes on my phone and I 169 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:18.960 go through the notes. I'm like, okay, this is a cool idea 170 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.039 and I like this. Turn this until Linkedin post and I'll turn a dead 171 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.360 note into Linkedin Post, or so I and I will also like, and 172 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.669 I'm not ashamed to say, like I screenshot a lot of people's posts and 173 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:35.909 Linkedin because I think, oh, that is like an excellent post for myself 174 00:12:35.070 --> 00:12:39.110 to just learn. And also I'll be like, okay, how could I 175 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:45.340 take their pose rewarded, not reinvent the wheel, but just innovate on the 176 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.419 wheel and make it a different post and a different a different way to say 177 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:52.740 in a different way to put it. For sure, I've noticed with your 178 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:58.059 content you were like the master of lists. You're the master, essentially, 179 00:12:58.100 --> 00:13:01.450 of getting engagement. I feel like every single post I see from you is 180 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.809 really good at getting people to come. Can you share what the audience like? 181 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:07.330 Some of the tricks you've learned to getting people to comment, because you 182 00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:11.809 know some not all questions are created equal. Some are easy to answer, 183 00:13:11.889 --> 00:13:16.320 some hard to answer. What are you looking at when you write your your 184 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:22.159 content that gets so many people to respond to it? One I keep it 185 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.279 simple, right. I keep it really simple, like I don't go too 186 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:28.909 complex, I don't go to things that people can can't understand. I go 187 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:35.509 really simple to I owe any everyone of my pose and some people hate it, 188 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:37.429 some people love it and I saw someone making fun of it the other 189 00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:41.700 day, but I always have a call to action and every single pose, 190 00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:46.899 like I want them to come and give their thoughts and I want them to 191 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:50.620 feel open to doing that. So that is helped me a lot. And 192 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:56.809 usually, like I do this, sometimes I my list on purpose and I 193 00:13:56.009 --> 00:14:01.370 leave a key thing out that I know someone my comment, like I know 194 00:14:01.570 --> 00:14:05.289 it's going to come in the comments. I'll leave it out in the list 195 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:09.440 because I know that someone's going to comment that thing and it floods the people, 196 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:16.039 flood the comments with those that thing, like it happens most times that 197 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.840 I do it. I purposely leave out some something that I know that should 198 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.710 be in the list, but someone commented. I know it's like you see 199 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:30.110 the list and it's like so obvious that it's missing that you're compelled to fill 200 00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:33.990 it out. It compelled to completely answer. It's like top nine ways to 201 00:14:33.070 --> 00:14:39.059 do to write better content and you left out talk to your audience, right, 202 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:43.940 or something really obvious like that. Yeah, and I think it's the 203 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.940 key. I mean also, I just want to see what when I do 204 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:50.659 leave it out, if like that's resonating with a lot of other people, 205 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.090 like is that? Is that a key topping that I did miss out, 206 00:14:54.210 --> 00:15:00.009 like is that something that people actually think is important be? Because it's also 207 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:03.049 like me testing like what my audience wants to see. So, like if 208 00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:05.450 they say talk to your all, they like they if they added talk to 209 00:15:05.490 --> 00:15:09.279 your audience right there, like then it gives me like an idea, like 210 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.200 okay, maybe I should write another post about like vast ways like talk about 211 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.919 to your audience, and like it gives me like if a lot of people 212 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.549 are saying that type of things, I've always actively listening to the comments. 213 00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:28.629 That's why I try my best to get people to get the comments and flood 214 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:31.830 them. Yeah, man, it's all about that engagement. I find like 215 00:15:31.029 --> 00:15:35.429 the three essential pieces of any post is the hook, how do you get 216 00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:37.340 them to read it, how do you deliver the value? And then what 217 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:41.779 the heck question can you post that still makes sense to get them to like 218 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:46.059 answer right and like those three things every single time, shorter long. So 219 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:48.460 we talked a lot about content. Now I'd like to learn a little bit 220 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.289 more about like, outside of trying to write the best, most sticky, 221 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:56.250 engaging content you can, what else are you doing to kind of like grow 222 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:02.570 your followership or grow your reach outside of just writing awesome content once or twice 223 00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:08.039 a day? I mean from posting. I've got opportunities like getting on podcasts. 224 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.480 I've been getting on podcast to go my my following. I've taken those. 225 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:18.750 I've taken like interviews for like blog posts, but also, like I 226 00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:23.590 generally like if I see someone that's also engage with out the people's posts, 227 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:30.629 and that's helps a lot to growing. You're falling because you're you're actively participating 228 00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:34.460 in the conversation. I think it's not good when you're it's better to leave 229 00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:37.340 nothing, though, if you going to just say, like, I like 230 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:42.539 this post, then just deliver value in the comments. When you do go 231 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:47.889 in the comments and a lot of people would do this very well and you 232 00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:53.169 see like their common has more likes in the person's actual post, because it's 233 00:16:53.169 --> 00:16:57.009 usually like the people who have big fallings. It happens to I've seen some 234 00:16:57.129 --> 00:17:02.320 of yours that get like twenty, thirty, forty likes. I can the 235 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.240 common saction. I think that's like a key to doing it. I also 236 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:12.480 think that like actively, like responding to DM's like actively, like talking, 237 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:18.390 like offering up your help to people like helps you, because I think what 238 00:17:18.589 --> 00:17:22.549 happens when you do that is like it creates this like word of mouth effect. 239 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:26.670 We're like I've seen people like post me and like they're their next like 240 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:30.779 linkedin posts and tag me in their post, and that's where I get a 241 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:33.339 ton of more followers. Like when people post me like Oh, I was 242 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.500 inspired by this by Danielmor you, like been my names in their post and 243 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:44.809 I get some of their followers to come to my tent. Hey, everybody, 244 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.890 logan with sweet fish here. You probably already know that we think you 245 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:52.369 should start a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you have and 246 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:56.289 you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted revenue this 247 00:17:56.369 --> 00:18:02.279 year? How's our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If you can't 248 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.960 answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why cast it created 249 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.720 the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be tob podcasting. Now you 250 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:18.630 can more easily search and share your audio content while getting greater visibility into the 251 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:23.349 impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at Drift Terminus and here at sweetfish 252 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:27.700 have started using casted to get more value out of our podcasts, and you 253 00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:33.299 probably can to. You can check out the product in action and casted dot 254 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:41.650 US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth. All right, let's get 255 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:48.609 back to the show. Absolutely I do find that you're right. Like helping 256 00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:52.769 the individuals who dm you. It takes like, I don't know what it 257 00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:56.599 is. It's like magic, right. It's like they've they were a fan, 258 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.039 they were engaging with your content, but then you responded to the personally 259 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.839 and if you put a lot of effort into your response, then they're like 260 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.119 wow, he's even better or she's even better than I thought, and then 261 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.069 they're like engaging twice as much with your normal content afterwards. Right, it's 262 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:14.710 like you're a right, they are fame, but over time, and with 263 00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:18.109 it's a few, one or two a day. But over time you're talking 264 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:21.950 about hundreds of people over the course of a year, and hundreds of people 265 00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:25.700 are like they are a big fan of your content. Ends up being a 266 00:19:25.779 --> 00:19:29.059 lot of engagement in your post. Yeah, and I were and I don't 267 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:33.859 respond to everybody because I think a lot of people give me like Spami like 268 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:37.900 type of things, but if they're actually generally like asking to like know something, 269 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.690 like, I'm all in. Like the comments and respond to them. 270 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:45.450 I mean not comments, but like my DM's, like someone deeds me with 271 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:49.369 something that like Le Jet, that's not sales, that's not like a generic 272 00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:53.160 like things for connecting with me. Like it's amazing how many of there are. 273 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.799 Right. I know like nine out of ten, if not nineteen out 274 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.079 of twenty. Right, it's like so many people, like hey, like 275 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.119 saw you were in this industry. I love your content. How about a 276 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:10.309 phone call? You're like what? It's funny because I saw a tweet done 277 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:12.470 it and they it's say a little linkedin trigger. I haven't tried it, 278 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:17.670 but I think it'll be funny to try. You put an Emoji in front 279 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:22.380 of your name on Linkedin, you'll see that people, the people who are 280 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:27.819 like automating the messages to you. I'll be like hey, like beer mug, 281 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.980 like it's like, okay, so you clearly didn't take the time to 282 00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:37.289 like create a good craft and message to me, I think. But I 283 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:42.089 can. I've been on Linkedin long enough to know which ones are those and 284 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:48.049 which ones aren't, and which ones are like genuine and what's not. So 285 00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:53.720 I respond to the genuine like DMS that I get. So for anybody listening 286 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.200 to this, if you want to talk to us, it's really easy. 287 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:03.119 Just DMUS and write an actual message. But most people don't do that. 288 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.190 They're automating the messages or they copy it. You could just tell it's copy 289 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.109 and paste it and sent a hundred people. Yeah, and change out the 290 00:21:11.150 --> 00:21:14.750 first name or their worst, my worst is when they they asked you like 291 00:21:14.829 --> 00:21:18.700 for thirty minutes of your time without asking anything, like, not even like 292 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:22.579 asking a question or anything like. Would you want to hop on a thirty 293 00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:25.940 minute call? Like okay, so I can just hop on thirty minute calls 294 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:30.059 now without like giving me any context, not even having one conversation with you. 295 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:34.170 And the messages you want already hop in a conversation with them? Yeah, 296 00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:37.930 come on, and unless you that person has been get engaging with me 297 00:21:40.130 --> 00:21:44.769 for a while, like, then I but if someone's like Oh, someone 298 00:21:44.890 --> 00:21:48.559 came generally said like Hey, I've been loving your post for a while and 299 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.480 I just want to catch up because you seem like a cool person. Like 300 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.559 okay, yeah, that's more. It's good, but if you're going to 301 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:57.920 straight on the connect say that to me. You're not, I'm not going 302 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:02.710 to get a caught with you for sure. So what have you done with 303 00:22:02.789 --> 00:22:08.349 your profile in order to help grow or to just improve your linkedin game? 304 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:15.150 One, I updated my like profile picture. I think that's a key just 305 00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:22.579 like look approachable to I think the header of your your linked to post, 306 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.900 is so key one, for just like when you're posting, people know who 307 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:30.930 what you're talking about. But to it helps like, for like the linkedin 308 00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.849 search engine optimization. If you see like, for example, I put like 309 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:41.730 those keywords in my post and I could when you go back into the search 310 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.039 result and see what they're searching, like, you could see like people searching 311 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.119 things with marketing, people searching things with marking operations, people searching things with 312 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.599 the man Ngin and I'm popping up because I'm putting the keywords like a lot 313 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.990 of people make the mistake and say, like I help businesses do x, 314 00:22:59.029 --> 00:23:00.789 Y and Z. Well, you're not going to pop up or anything if 315 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:07.910 you do that. It's just not how linkedin works. And then I don't 316 00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.789 do this very well, but other people do this very well. The header 317 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:15.460 image, like have something that's branded your company or have something to like take 318 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:19.779 clicks through to not click through, but have something like follow me on these 319 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:26.099 platforms or like join my email or twenty percent off my service or like. 320 00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:29.849 Those things are like if you're going to get using your profile, like that's 321 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:32.769 the one of the first things they're going to see, like free ad space. 322 00:23:32.970 --> 00:23:34.849 Yeah, I think we differ on the title, though. We actually 323 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:40.210 do take the approach, the opposite approach, and it's really interesting to kind 324 00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:44.160 of hear like the your approach versus our approach. I get I get where 325 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.240 you're coming from, because we're all about search engine optimization. I do a 326 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:52.279 lot of SEO. Even on podcasting. We specifically encourage our customers to name 327 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.150 their guests so that they're found when people are looking for you know, marketing 328 00:23:56.230 --> 00:24:00.309 director advice, you know, and then boom, I'll look, here's the 329 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:02.829 marketing director podcast. You know, it's like. So we try to name 330 00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:07.029 them like that. I do find the titles an interesting place if you can 331 00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:11.700 differentiate your company. All sweet fish employees have the same title and then whatever 332 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:15.700 we want to put after that. But we produce podcasts or be to be 333 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:18.259 rant. That's it, because what I find is it's an advertisement floating around 334 00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:22.220 everywhere I go, every comment I make, every post I have, people 335 00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:26.170 know what I'm about and because we hardly ever throw right hooks and our content 336 00:24:26.369 --> 00:24:30.450 like we're just seating value, value. It's kind of like the one little 337 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:32.930 thing that people can be like, oh, like, maybe we should ask 338 00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:34.490 them about podcasts. You know, we so we get in their heads about 339 00:24:34.769 --> 00:24:38.240 what we do. Yeah, and I think, I think that you made 340 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.720 a good point that it depends on like what your in goal on links and 341 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.599 sorry to like your own goal is to bring more people to Your Business, 342 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:51.799 to and I think, like yours is short and sweet. I think, 343 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.910 like a lot of people make that too long. You can't really also outside 344 00:24:55.950 --> 00:24:59.990 the pro faul. It's no good. What I like about your guys approach 345 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:04.390 is different than like others that do this, like your whole company does it. 346 00:25:04.549 --> 00:25:07.779 So like I know that it's your like it's like someone that works for 347 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:11.900 your company. So like that's I like it, because you have people actively 348 00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:15.380 posting on Linkedin. I think if you're trying to do a personal brand, 349 00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:23.049 and so much harder to like say, like I the reason I straight away 350 00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:26.369 from, straight away from that, is I could if I go into a 351 00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:30.809 DM and like DM someone to go something I have, like I help companies 352 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:34.250 do, blah, blah, blah. I feel like it's a little pushback. 353 00:25:34.369 --> 00:25:38.079 You have like them like not wanting to respond to my DM or stuff 354 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.839 if I just put my stuff. But it also, like I said, 355 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:48.240 depends on your goal Linkedin, and I think for your purpose it works. 356 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:55.829 For my purpose just to I've seen that get threezero views in the search engine 357 00:25:55.910 --> 00:25:59.829 from like what. I'm sure it's clearly working for you. So I just 358 00:26:00.029 --> 00:26:03.500 stick with that. I might try new things and I'll let you know how 359 00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:10.059 it goes, but but right now it's it's doing pretty good the way. 360 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:12.819 Yeah, half a follow up question for that, but well, close that. 361 00:26:12.940 --> 00:26:17.539 They're anything. Actually, I don't even know if I have anything left 362 00:26:17.579 --> 00:26:21.089 in this category of profile inmization. So I'll just start with that. So, 363 00:26:21.210 --> 00:26:25.130 as you're building out your profile and you're gaining allowers, what you're at 364 00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:29.410 like what? Thirteen? Thirteen Thou followers, now fourteen, somewhere around there. 365 00:26:30.089 --> 00:26:33.559 Like what's the goal of it? What results have you seen from your 366 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.240 reach? You we in the pre show, you mentioned you were getting like 367 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.759 like what four five million views over the last couple of months. It's just 368 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:42.839 a lot of attention. So what are you doing with all that attention? 369 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:48.750 So one I get asked on, like a lot of podcasts. It gets 370 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:55.829 me like personal brand out there. It's helped me connect with marketers that I 371 00:26:55.869 --> 00:27:00.460 wouldn't have probably have never connected with before and bigger names that I would never 372 00:27:00.619 --> 00:27:06.259 have connected before if I didn't have that type of reach. said that something 373 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:08.859 that I really like about it, like I get to learn from like the 374 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:14.500 best marketers because I'm doing this and they're open to have a conversation with me. 375 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:19.250 Like it's just like we can have dialog and I also think, like 376 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:25.490 I am starting a podcast coming up, so it's setting me up to bring 377 00:27:25.809 --> 00:27:32.599 people to that. It's also just really I'm doing it to help people learn 378 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:36.319 more about marketing and for me to learn more. And I actually I am 379 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.000 learning more than probably they're learning, because I'm getting I'm learning how to create 380 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.710 an audience. I'm learning what content they like. I'm learning from people who, 381 00:27:45.509 --> 00:27:49.430 my mind changes a lot of the time just from people's post I respect 382 00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:52.549 because like I'm like, Oh, I actually you didn't think about it that 383 00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:56.349 way, and it actually changes my mind. So I go and it would 384 00:27:56.349 --> 00:28:00.779 like a very open mind of how I'm posting. Man, that's fascinating. 385 00:28:00.819 --> 00:28:03.059 I do. I totally agree, and that you end up, as the 386 00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:07.059 content creator, learning way more than the people reading the post, just to 387 00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:11.700 articulate it and think through what is my position on this, and then see 388 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:14.410 someone else's post and write a really big comment on it you're like, Huh, 389 00:28:14.690 --> 00:28:17.690 didn't know I thought that, but that was really good. It just 390 00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:22.009 makes you so much more of a more articulate about what positions you take as 391 00:28:22.049 --> 00:28:25.490 a marketer and I don't know, gives you more a more clear focus and, 392 00:28:25.529 --> 00:28:29.720 I think, clearer thinking as a marketer. And I think writing helps 393 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:34.160 you figure out how little you actually know about a lot of things and once 394 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.920 you get writing more, it helps you clear think more clearly. I think 395 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.190 like just even like you suggest, anybody writing every day. I just think 396 00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:48.829 like it's helped me as a marketer just like think more clearly and like take 397 00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:52.069 my thoughts that I'm actually thinking and put them on a piece of paper and 398 00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:56.900 be able to articulate in a clear way that someone could understand it. I 399 00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:00.380 think that's a hard way to do that. I think one of my favorite 400 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:04.140 quotes is I I could have wrote a shorter piece, but I ran at 401 00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:08.779 a time like yeah, like a lot of people could write a big post 402 00:29:08.859 --> 00:29:12.049 and write a bunch of fluff, but like to get it so concise and 403 00:29:12.130 --> 00:29:18.410 so like package that your thoughts and like a shorter space. I think it's 404 00:29:18.849 --> 00:29:23.319 so hard to do and it's helped me, like not only in Linkedin but 405 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.920 my job as well. Man It truly is a difficult of all my post 406 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.000 that are the most interpreted, it's always the short ones. It's always my 407 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.240 short, snappy punches and people are like well, what about this and I'm 408 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.750 like no, that's not what I meant Ding it. I just wasn't I 409 00:29:40.829 --> 00:29:44.910 didn't clut quite articulate. It quite right for people to not misunderstand what I 410 00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:47.910 was trying to say, and it's always the short ones, because writing shorters 411 00:29:48.230 --> 00:29:52.109 it's honestly just harder. So what advice would you give to someone who's just 412 00:29:52.230 --> 00:29:56.380 starting, someone who's got three hundred followers, their friends, their family, 413 00:29:56.500 --> 00:30:02.099 their coworkers from past jobs, and they want to get started? What does 414 00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:04.579 the first month look like for them if they want to get to where you're 415 00:30:04.619 --> 00:30:10.089 at? I think I think one is define your purpose, like what you're 416 00:30:10.170 --> 00:30:12.250 going in for. And then, too, what would just say? Like, 417 00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:17.170 don't overthink, just start, like you can always, like at the 418 00:30:17.250 --> 00:30:21.369 beginning is like the perfect time to tests, like who you are on Linkedin 419 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.960 and who you want to be in Linkedin, and like, okay, if, 420 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.160 like, you want to change, like pivot, like after a couple 421 00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.559 weeks, you can, like if you want to change a couple thing. 422 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:37.470 But I think like starting writing, consistently building that, then flexing that muscle 423 00:30:37.549 --> 00:30:41.990 of actually writing. Start doing that. Also, I would start falling people 424 00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:48.589 in your like niche that are doing it very well and learn from them, 425 00:30:48.789 --> 00:30:52.099 like go and like study their post, like study how they're doing it, 426 00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:56.420 study how they structure The post, study, like how they're engage with people. 427 00:30:56.940 --> 00:31:00.619 Like I would go and do that. And second, like, this 428 00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:03.289 is a trick that I think, like a lot of people don't do at 429 00:31:03.329 --> 00:31:07.210 the beginning to increase their followers. And I learned that probably the middle and 430 00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:11.289 I don't do it much anymore, but go those people that you follow that 431 00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:17.490 are doing well and start connecting with their people who are engaging with their content. 432 00:31:18.009 --> 00:31:21.000 I think a lot of people don't do that and I think one, 433 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:25.000 they're engaged to they want to know more about your topic. And three, 434 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:30.640 the there in your knee. So it's like why not connect with people that 435 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:36.789 are engaging and in your niche? So I've seen those people come back to 436 00:31:36.869 --> 00:31:40.470 my post affter. I've done it and the beginning. So it's interesting. 437 00:31:40.630 --> 00:31:42.829 How many of those people do you reach out to like a day? I 438 00:31:42.910 --> 00:31:48.019 would say like at the beginning I did like twenty two, twenty five people 439 00:31:48.019 --> 00:31:52.900 a day. I don't do it as much anymore because, like, organically, 440 00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:57.980 I get a lot of followers. And actually, going back to the 441 00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:02.970 optimizing profile, I think one thing to really boost your followers a lot is 442 00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.730 switch the follow, I mean the connect button, to follow if you really 443 00:32:07.809 --> 00:32:10.690 want me, and that's a huge difference. Yeah, I will. It 444 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:20.039 will I started like sky rocking because follows or of a less invasive way of 445 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:25.720 like connecting linkedin. It doesn't involve like being a actual connection. It just 446 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:30.990 involves like you like consuming their stuff. So I think a lot of people 447 00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:37.029 just like clicking the follow button because it's way easier than than doing that's like 448 00:32:37.150 --> 00:32:42.069 the like on a page and facebook like it's a kind of like that. 449 00:32:42.789 --> 00:32:45.140 Yeah, or kind of like a follow or on instagram or twitter. Right, 450 00:32:45.339 --> 00:32:49.539 they don't necessarily follow you back. You could just follow them, though. 451 00:32:49.579 --> 00:32:52.460 A connection is more like a friend request, like you're following each other 452 00:32:52.539 --> 00:32:54.779 at that point. Right. That was huge, huge when I made that 453 00:32:54.859 --> 00:32:59.769 change. I remember posting about it and then watching the stats on a you 454 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:01.890 shield. I think you're a shield user, two for Lincoln engagement. It's 455 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:06.049 kind of like you just watch the line bull away. As far as your 456 00:33:06.089 --> 00:33:08.569 followers weren't at least minded when I switched that button up. Yeah, like 457 00:33:08.690 --> 00:33:15.960 that. My deltas like five thousand like from follows the connection. So it 458 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:22.160 definitely like Ky Pup Sky Rocket. Well, fantastic. It's been fast. 459 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.720 It's been good to meet you and have you on the BB grow show. 460 00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:31.670 Working People learn more about you and what you're doing on Linkedin and connect with 461 00:33:31.789 --> 00:33:38.670 you what you're like linkedin profile. You were all so it's Linkedincom backsides and 462 00:33:38.829 --> 00:33:45.220 black sides. Daniels Marie marketing that. And then I'm also starting a podcastus. 463 00:33:45.259 --> 00:33:49.619 I hope you guys will like it. It's called the marketing millennials and 464 00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:54.579 it's on. It's actually on all platforms now apple, PODC has spotify, 465 00:33:54.700 --> 00:34:00.049 but I have an officially launched it yet, like to a public. So 466 00:34:00.369 --> 00:34:05.009 will be ups and actually someone from your company is going to be on. 467 00:34:05.730 --> 00:34:08.690 Fantastic. Love to hear that well. Thanks so much for joining me on 468 00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:15.119 B tob growth today, Daniel. Thank you, thank you. Are you 469 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.800 on Lincoln? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on linked it. 470 00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.039 Here's so we fish. We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple people 471 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.710 from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me, 472 00:34:27.309 --> 00:34:30.909 other times it's a micro video or a slide deck and sometimes it's just 473 00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:35.710 a regular old status update that shares their unique point of view on BB marketing 474 00:34:35.949 --> 00:34:39.980 leadership or their job function. We're posting this content through their personal profile, 475 00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:45.260 not our company page, and it would warm my heart and soul if you 476 00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:49.500 connected with each of our evangelists. will be adding more down the road, 477 00:34:49.659 --> 00:34:53.329 but for now you should connect with bill read, our CEO, Kelsey Montgomery, 478 00:34:53.489 --> 00:34:58.769 our creative director, Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, Logan 479 00:34:58.849 --> 00:35:01.570 Lyles are, director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We are 480 00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:06.530 having a whole lot of fun on Linkedin pretty much every single day and we'd 481 00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:07.480 love for you to be a part of it.