1346: Optimizing Personal Experience Throughout the Buyer's Journey w/ Greg Segall

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.990 Welcome back. To be to be growth. I'm looking less with sweet fish 2 00:00:08.029 --> 00:00:11.509 media. I'm joined today by Greg's Eagle. He's the founder and CEO over 3 00:00:11.669 --> 00:00:14.349 at Alice. Greg, how you doing today, man, very good, 4 00:00:14.390 --> 00:00:18.269 my friend, Awesome Greg. We've been asking some fun questions to get to 5 00:00:18.390 --> 00:00:21.460 know our guests. I'm curious. Have you picked up any new hobbies during 6 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:27.179 quarantine? In Two Thousand and twenty? Man, my hobby is really been 7 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:31.059 taking daddy daughter day to a whole new level. So it's been getting her 8 00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:34.500 to Legos and we I taught her how to actually ride a bike. So 9 00:00:34.659 --> 00:00:37.130 she's doing a pedal bike as a four year old and we actually did five 10 00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:40.850 and a half miles yesterday down on the river by Boston, which is pretty 11 00:00:40.890 --> 00:00:43.969 hardcore for a five year old. A five our four year old, you 12 00:00:44.049 --> 00:00:48.130 know doing that, already thinks she's five. So yeah, I mean I've 13 00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:51.960 played guitar for forever. You know is doing art stuff forever. But yeah, 14 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.799 I think it's been really nice to spend more time with my daughter and 15 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.920 get her more to Ninja stuff. That's what I like to call it. 16 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:00.560 I love that, man, I love it. I've got two kids under 17 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.590 twelve as well and just trying to make the most of, you know, 18 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:10.150 the time that we have and the options that we have to do stuff together. 19 00:01:10.549 --> 00:01:12.030 Fortunately, for a lot of folks, unless you're right in the middle 20 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:15.590 of a city, that outdoors is still very much an option and has been. 21 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.859 So I love that you guys are doing that, and daddy daughter dates 22 00:01:19.900 --> 00:01:23.900 are a passion of mine too, even though mine's a little bit different age. 23 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:27.420 Well, Greg, we're going to be talking about personal experience this area. 24 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:30.459 Yeah, of the customer journey that you guys are really doubling down on 25 00:01:30.659 --> 00:01:34.170 over at Alice. For folks who haven't don't know if you guys haven't heard 26 00:01:34.209 --> 00:01:38.090 your previous appearance on bb growth, which was way back in the day with 27 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:42.569 James, give us a little bit context for folks who aren't its familiar with 28 00:01:42.650 --> 00:01:45.450 you. Yeah, it's funny to think that we were talking three years ago 29 00:01:45.569 --> 00:01:48.680 was like episode what two hundred or something, you know, of back back 30 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.840 in the day when we're all trying to figure out our our mics and stuff. 31 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:56.159 So Alice I started up about four years ago. It's an ABM engagement 32 00:01:56.239 --> 00:02:00.719 platform. It's aim towards enterprise sales and marketing teams. They are trying to 33 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.109 create personal bonds in the age of this digital noise meal right now with their 34 00:02:05.109 --> 00:02:07.909 prospects, are customers and their partners, and we do it all through one 35 00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:10.629 to one gifting, so using gifting and swag. So I guess simply said, 36 00:02:12.030 --> 00:02:14.710 you know, it's it's an experience that you get, which actually you 37 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:17.379 just received one, where it allows you to go into this market place and 38 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:21.939 be able to choose what you want and from that it's able to uncover what 39 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:23.620 you're five to nine, is your nine hundred and twenty five, which is 40 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:27.860 basically who we're you as a person. What's your hobbies were interest your family 41 00:02:28.139 --> 00:02:30.770 is, you know, what's your life outside of the outside of the nine 42 00:02:30.770 --> 00:02:32.569 hundred twenty five? So it's, you know, sales rep doesn't have to 43 00:02:32.610 --> 00:02:36.090 actually just sit there and be talking about the weather anymore, asking about the 44 00:02:36.129 --> 00:02:39.569 weather anymore. So what's been awesome is if you take all the different outreach 45 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:43.409 channels that most sales and marketing folks are using right now and you add a 46 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:46.439 gift into that, you know we're seeing anywhere between like a five to twenty 47 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:50.639 x, you know, improvement engagement as you go through that. So hugely 48 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.319 aim towards big, large enter fries organizations and it's been wild to see the 49 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:58.990 growth even through covid too. Yeah, absolutely. I can remember James was 50 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:02.270 up in Boston, I think got together with you or somebody on the team 51 00:03:02.349 --> 00:03:06.870 and he came back saying, Hey, there's this platform called Alice and it 52 00:03:06.949 --> 00:03:08.550 use you know, it helps you figure out the right gift for someone you 53 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.939 don't really know, and it's really been interesting to have you, you know, 54 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:15.900 back on. You and I were jamming last week a little bit and 55 00:03:15.020 --> 00:03:20.659 just talking about the growth of Alice and sweet fish. So this is really 56 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:23.539 cool. But let's let's dive in Greg to this term that I kind of 57 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:28.889 threw out there that you guys are thinking a lot about personal experience. You 58 00:03:28.969 --> 00:03:34.009 know, we customer experience is a hot term right now and differentiating that between 59 00:03:34.370 --> 00:03:39.210 customer service and customer success and customers support. Where does personal experience fit within 60 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:45.360 customer experience? As sales and marketing professionals should be thinking about it. If 61 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.400 you think about customer experience, if you think about account base marketing, you 62 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.039 can think about all these different terms or even the customer journey. It's very 63 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:57.110 much focused on the actual company itself. The account, the brand of the 64 00:03:57.189 --> 00:04:00.110 company. And if you think about where marketing and sales is heading right now, 65 00:04:00.389 --> 00:04:03.789 it's much more towards want to want. So if you think about, 66 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:08.189 you know, a vendor and a customer, whether it's the customer experience or 67 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:11.340 it's account based marketing, and you're going from the account to the to the 68 00:04:11.419 --> 00:04:15.819 vendor, you know side of things. It's people that are in between those 69 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:17.220 two. Right you have on your side, as a vendor, you have 70 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:19.740 a sales rep you have your account managers, you have your you know, 71 00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:25.569 coupiper success folks, support folks, your procurement are your finance folks. You 72 00:04:25.649 --> 00:04:28.129 know all the folks that are there. And on the other side you have 73 00:04:28.290 --> 00:04:30.889 equally as amount of people. You have your buying groups, you have all 74 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:32.250 the different folks that you're going to be doing with a bercurements or wherever it 75 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:35.529 might be, the relationships you're building on a one to one level or the 76 00:04:35.649 --> 00:04:41.480 things that actually create the experience between you and that feeds up to a customer 77 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.040 experience. Like you can have a what you think is a great customer experience, 78 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:47.920 but it's what's on the individual one to one level. So the entire 79 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.240 concept of what we're moving, you know, and trying to move all of 80 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:54.629 the customers that we we have right now towards is how do you take the 81 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:57.550 one too many and make it one to one? How do you go from 82 00:04:57.670 --> 00:05:00.629 Persona to person? And the more you do that, the more you actually 83 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:02.750 take people from these word, the word touches, right, you know, 84 00:05:02.870 --> 00:05:05.509 riffing off this last week, right, touches, or impressions, which is 85 00:05:05.589 --> 00:05:10.459 like very like one dimensional and actually touches super creepy. And move that to 86 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:14.740 like in interaction where you have a, you know, a bidirectional value exchange, 87 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:18.100 to a moment where there's actual emotional resonance. Or now you're talking about 88 00:05:18.100 --> 00:05:20.420 like you have the Broncos had on, you know, and we're talking about 89 00:05:20.420 --> 00:05:23.889 the NFL right before we jumped on here and, you know, and talking 90 00:05:23.889 --> 00:05:26.329 about ours. It going to players and not going to play. That is 91 00:05:26.529 --> 00:05:29.889 where you build trust, that's where you build rapport and the key thing is 92 00:05:30.009 --> 00:05:33.930 that marketers jobs are becoming much more to support that personal experience and sales reps 93 00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:38.360 are being pulled up more because it is all about the relationship now and even 94 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.639 more than ever in this like, you know, world of digital noise, 95 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.319 where you can actually get together. Yeah, absolutely, I love what you 96 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.160 said. They're from persona to person. We all know when we're being treated 97 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:53.350 as a persona when we get those linkedin in mails that have been, you 98 00:05:53.430 --> 00:05:57.709 know, poorly onimated porsily personalized. For folks just listening. I'm doing air 99 00:05:57.750 --> 00:06:01.389 quotes around personalized. You pointed out something really interesting there, Greg going to 100 00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:05.339 circle back on. You talked about the many one to one. We're not 101 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:12.259 just talking about prospect salesperson, customer account manager or CSM or whatever it is 102 00:06:12.819 --> 00:06:16.220 in most be tob organizations, unless it's just very, very low touch. 103 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:24.250 For anyone selling any sort of somewhat complex solution or especially in a service business, 104 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:29.129 there are many interactions where you know one person on the customer side could 105 00:06:29.209 --> 00:06:32.160 know three different people that they interact regularly with, and then there are all 106 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.160 sorts of other people. I almost said personas. Let's let's go to people. 107 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:40.920 Let's be the personal. There are all sorts of people on the on 108 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.879 the vendor side, from finance to operations and other folks outside of sales and 109 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.750 marketing that we need to be thinking about. How do we optimize that personal 110 00:06:50.990 --> 00:06:55.550 experience both directions? Can you talk a little bit about that. Maybe some 111 00:06:55.629 --> 00:06:59.910 of the blind spots when it comes to personal experience and how we optimize that 112 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:03.259 experience for our customers and how they interact with our team members. Think about 113 00:07:03.259 --> 00:07:06.379 it in terms of you know, it's funny there's this movement right now we're 114 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:10.899 marketing automation platforms. I mean you like you said, you it's funny where 115 00:07:10.939 --> 00:07:13.899 I was on a meeting right before this and the guy called it a torture 116 00:07:13.899 --> 00:07:15.410 campaign. He's like, how many torture campaigns am I in right now? 117 00:07:15.569 --> 00:07:19.529 You know, like you know when you are in a sequence or a cadence 118 00:07:19.689 --> 00:07:23.649 or you know, the flow or whatever you want to all in the different 119 00:07:23.689 --> 00:07:27.089 systems. You know, drip campaigns, right they known systems, and the 120 00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:30.000 key thing you have to start thinking about is the entire customer experience, being 121 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.160 the personal experience. That goes the level deeper. What is each of what 122 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:38.759 is that in an entire set of outreach and and interactions that are you're trying 123 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.319 to turn and see these moments and the hard thing right now is that you're 124 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.670 just talking about this in the high like the big touch, you know, 125 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:47.790 organizations or anything where there's any complexity in sales. They want to know that 126 00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:50.589 it's a person that's supporting them behind this, because you know that in the 127 00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:55.189 case of like a software we just sign up. They're still maturity models to 128 00:07:55.269 --> 00:07:57.870 get to a personal experience. I'll give you some examples later on if you're 129 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.699 interested. But the big pitfalls right now or just that you're just optimizing on 130 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:05.500 points of percent by figuring out what's the clicker through rate on this specific email 131 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:07.339 and blah, blah, blah. This is a moment now where the entire 132 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:09.379 marketing world, in sales where, is going to be looking at it in 133 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:15.290 terms of stop scaling quantity and start scaling quality. How do you go from 134 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.889 the quantity aspects right now, where it's all about how do I just keep 135 00:08:18.889 --> 00:08:22.529 getting more in front of these specific people and that mentality of like torture the 136 00:08:22.569 --> 00:08:26.050 hell out of this person, to how do I actually like create emotional resin 137 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:30.279 is, how do I get to this person and provide them value every single 138 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.240 time that I'm actually, you know, trying to do this both on the 139 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.519 nine hundred and twenty five in terms of what I'm selling, but also in 140 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.639 terms of me as a human being. Right you know, they've been talking 141 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.360 about human to human or person to person, you know, forever. Right 142 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.990 now it's finally starting to come to fruition because the technology is able to actually, 143 00:08:45.149 --> 00:08:46.509 you know, start to start to unlock that. I love that you 144 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:50.830 point that out. We have an age to age where human to Human Series 145 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:54.779 Co hosted by Carlos Dalgo right on this show. I'm currently reading a fantastic 146 00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:58.700 book. If you haven't read Joey Coleman's book, never lose a customer again. 147 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:01.899 He's amazing. To go read that right now. You know, eat 148 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:05.980 talks about the the importance and really put some eye opening stats in front of 149 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:11.049 folks about what we spend on customer retention versus new customer acquisition. But he 150 00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:16.529 also talks about this. Every be tob organization. There is human to human 151 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.370 interactions that is driving all of this. So it's very much in line with 152 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:24.919 what you're talking about their Greg I would love for you to unpack maybe some 153 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:31.000 of those examples from looking at touches versus emotional resonance. How can we make 154 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.799 that pivot? Because look, we've all got outreach or sales loft or mix 155 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:37.909 bax. We've all got marquetto or hub spot or whatever. We all have 156 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:43.549 these automation platforms. So the race for quantity is over. Anybody, even 157 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.070 a brand new startup, can fire up a new sales engagement platform or a 158 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.070 marketing automation platform and just torture the heck out of everybody. I love that 159 00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:54.100 torture campaign. I'm that's going to stick in my brain for a while. 160 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.059 Now we can, we can load those up. How are some of your 161 00:09:58.220 --> 00:10:03.259 customers or other marketers that you talk to making that that pivot from from just 162 00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:11.049 touches two moments of emotional residents. So I'll take you through Alice at also 163 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:13.690 take you through outside of Alice, because personal experience is not just about Alice, 164 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:16.450 by the way. You know, Alice is obviously, you know, 165 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.730 stuck in the channels around like gifting and swag at, the investment called sort 166 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:24.080 of the investment channels, like you're investing into the relationship with actual monetary you 167 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.679 know, investments there, but then you have all the other channels that are 168 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.799 sitting around outside of that. So actually let me start there first then I'll 169 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.559 come back to alice itself. If you think about the maturity of a personal 170 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.029 experience, and that just means again the concept of going from one too many 171 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.149 to one to one. You should pick out and map out what is the 172 00:10:39.190 --> 00:10:43.629 entire buyers journey or the customers journey that individual person that's going through, and 173 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:48.110 look in there and say where could we start swapping out some of these one 174 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:52.980 too many touches for one too many moments, and a lot of that right 175 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.539 now, because again, the technology hasn't fully caught up yet, is the 176 00:10:56.019 --> 00:11:00.539 embedding of the salesperson into that specific flow. How am I actually getting a 177 00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:05.450 person to build a relationship, because marketers jobs right now are moving much more 178 00:11:05.529 --> 00:11:09.889 from just blanket awareness and air cover to how I actually supporting sales throughout the 179 00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:13.929 entire journey and then customer success and, you know, account management and all 180 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:16.330 the other things that are that are happening and even support. And if you 181 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:20.200 look at that conversion that's happening right now, you need to start injecting that 182 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.120 in. So I'll give you some examples. One is let's take, you 183 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.519 know, even in in APP. Let's go to like the the like, 184 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.679 sign up for a you know, product, leg growth company, right organization 185 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.149 inside the APP, instead of you having like a like, Oh, here's 186 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:37.269 all the new things that have happened which, you know, slacking all these 187 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:39.590 other folks do. Imagine now you take your customer success wrap, even if 188 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:43.950 it's a one too many video, and you talk and you say hey, 189 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:46.110 like, I've just think this is something that's amazing and you know, you 190 00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:48.379 know, I really thought you would like you you really like to see this 191 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:52.019 and know that that's that. And again you can start getting more complicated and 192 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:56.059 more complex as you start doing that because again, these channels about being personal 193 00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:58.779 are so critical to you being able to actually put a face to a name 194 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.049 and create that emotional residence that you're actually having there. So there's like maturity 195 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.409 levels of how you can get to that. And again you can take those 196 00:12:05.450 --> 00:12:09.009 one too many moments and turn them or one too many touches and turn them, 197 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.210 or impressions and turn them into moments right. And then, you know, 198 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:15.250 you go into like the other stages, which is like take take your 199 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:18.279 sales engagement platforms, which you just talked about, which also has actually complicated 200 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.360 things because you have marketers blasting and torturing people from maps, you know, 201 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.799 marketing animation platforms, and then they're never really sinking up all the overlap between 202 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.549 moder sales people doing and I've got marketing, you know, hammering the hell 203 00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.750 out of somebody and sales hammering the heck out of somebody. And is this 204 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:35.789 big? You know, you're in this major dichotomy right now of like which 205 00:12:35.789 --> 00:12:39.549 one overlaps who, and you're trying to even see even to the point now 206 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:43.070 I'm seeing like marketing own sales engagement, and I'm like both. You're just 207 00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.179 basically turning them into another map system, you know, which is which is 208 00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:48.100 totally the opposite of what you really want. So what you could do is, 209 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.740 instead of you saying we'll send it email, here, you said if 210 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.539 the template, but you actually allow that person, the sales rep to customize 211 00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:58.690 it and send it off. Because here's the whole like, the whole concept 212 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:01.970 is this. Somebody can sniff out whether you are investing time or money into 213 00:13:03.289 --> 00:13:07.610 a touch or an impression, and that time and and or money at that 214 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:11.809 specific moment changed it to a moment, right, because if they saw, 215 00:13:11.929 --> 00:13:13.679 Oh, let me talk to you and like, you know, reference something 216 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.120 about the Denver Broncos, and you know, because we talked about that, 217 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.080 or so you'd said, some thing or there's something of relevance at that specific, 218 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.759 specific time that is critically, critically important and we can come back to 219 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:24.559 the whole carrying and authenticity side of things in a second. But let's keep 220 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.029 it simple, you know, for this and the way that Alice works, 221 00:13:28.029 --> 00:13:28.830 in the way that we've been doing it, you know, internally with our 222 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:33.429 own products, it's if you inject the the investment to the person and make 223 00:13:33.470 --> 00:13:37.990 it about them, not about me. Right, so stop with the cheesy 224 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:41.860 water bottles and stop with the like overly branded boxes which, you know, 225 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.779 you think are these brilliant, you know, creative campaign things because, yes, 226 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.139 great, you might get. So you get fifteen percent response rate on 227 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:50.500 that thing, will eighty five percent of those people are pissed off because now 228 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:52.299 they're like, what am I going to do with this garbage that I don't 229 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:56.769 really need anymore, and they have a negative association with getting this box with 230 00:13:56.929 --> 00:13:58.730 your logo on it, which is exactly the opposite of what you want, 231 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:03.450 because you want the eighty five percent of people who don't respond to have a 232 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:07.210 positive experience associated with your brand, because that's overall brand and awareness lift, 233 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:11.120 even if they're not a direct response. Right, correct, correct, hundred 234 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:16.320 percent, and think about it in terms of you know, everyone and marketing. 235 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.039 It always thinks about brand awareness is a huge portion of it, which 236 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.840 it is. It's super important obviously drive your brand, but there's also different 237 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.750 stages of how aware your brand is and how you use that as part of 238 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:28.669 that the personal experience, because the thing that people miss in terms of branding 239 00:14:30.230 --> 00:14:33.789 is that your people are your brand and if your it. Take take like 240 00:14:33.950 --> 00:14:35.269 Gong, which is an amazing brand. Right, you know the OOTI's an 241 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:37.740 amazing you know CMO and, like you, they've done a really good job 242 00:14:37.779 --> 00:14:41.220 of building the framework in the guy. The guard rails are around a brand. 243 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.460 But if the person that gets on there, like their sales rep, 244 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:48.179 gets on there and sort of treats you like crap, like it literally is 245 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.139 a negative brand impression. It's the same thing if you're sending something to somebody 246 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:52.889 as well and they're just like what is this garbage like? Why am I 247 00:14:52.929 --> 00:14:56.570 why am I getting this? It's causing the same things. So you have 248 00:14:56.730 --> 00:15:00.250 to flip that dynamic around and again, simple concept. How would I want 249 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:01.970 to be marketed to? How would I want to be sold to? That's 250 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.490 it. You just think about in those terms and now it actually allows you 251 00:15:05.490 --> 00:15:07.559 to do that. So what Alice does is allows you to inject the gift 252 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.960 or the investment in the relationship into those specific, one too many points that 253 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:15.840 we determine our the biggest, you know, problem areas or the places that 254 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.960 you can improve your funnel or your customer journey, you know, or your 255 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.629 personal experience. Right, and and allows you to learn something about the person 256 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:26.710 and gives the person information to be able to have conversations around other things, 257 00:15:26.750 --> 00:15:28.710 around our kids. We went off on that last time, you know. 258 00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:30.990 We're talking about Daddy Daughter Day, right, you know. So, like 259 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.950 those are the things that that change the entire relationship and build report and build 260 00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:37.259 trust, and that's what personal experience is all about. How do you do 261 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:39.539 that? You don't have to flip the whole entire buyers journey upside down right 262 00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:43.179 now. You pick specific points and that's your transition plan. That will you'll 263 00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:46.059 see will happen over the next two to three years in terms of how marketing 264 00:15:46.059 --> 00:15:50.370 and sales is actually, you know, employed throughout throughout the industry. That 265 00:15:50.529 --> 00:15:54.210 is a fantastic example with the video that you were talking about there, Greg, 266 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:56.610 you know, taking a spawn in on boarding, whether that's an email 267 00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.610 or whether that's just, you know, the what's new notifications in APP and 268 00:16:00.809 --> 00:16:04.600 injecting a video there. It's some time. I was just talking with Ethan 269 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.600 Butaut he's The cohost of the CX series here on the show. He's the 270 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.480 chief of angelist over at bomb. Obviously they're very passionate about video. It's 271 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.159 what their platform does and he and I have talked about this a number of 272 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.429 times. Even if it's only thirty two video greg if I send you a 273 00:16:19.629 --> 00:16:25.549 one to one video, there is no question whether I invested that time to 274 00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:27.789 send you that video. You know that I didn't just click send. You 275 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:30.950 know that it wasn't even less than that and it was just automated because I 276 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:36.940 showed up right now. Even if I recorded something, that was still somewhat 277 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:40.580 one too many, like you know. Maybe an example would be like, 278 00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:44.860 before we hop onto this interview, I send you a video and I don't 279 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:48.289 say your name, I don't, you know, mention something we talked about, 280 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:51.690 but I say hey, they're really excited to record with you, and 281 00:16:51.769 --> 00:16:55.570 just a little bit that it's still shows that I invested that. It's a 282 00:16:55.610 --> 00:17:00.090 smaller percentage than if I had invested it just for you, but it is 283 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:04.119 definitely you would know that that I invested more time there than just getting the 284 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.480 you know, scheduling notification automation that you know. You know is set up 285 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.720 with mixed Max work calumbly or something like that. So I think that is 286 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:18.109 a really great example and something that that people can take that concept and apply 287 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.789 to a number of different things. Where can you interject a little bit more 288 00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:26.910 of an investment, a little bit more of a person into something that would 289 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.859 otherwise be automated? You don't have to rework the entire thing, but look 290 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:34.220 for those opportunities to create moments. Now you also talk to Greg a little 291 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:38.980 bit about showing you care, showing that there there's empathy. I had an 292 00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:44.769 unbelievable experience with a prospect to responded to a cold email, where our eyes 293 00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:48.730 were open to the person on the other side just about our week or two 294 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:51.690 ago. We could riff on that a bit, but I'd love to hear 295 00:17:51.890 --> 00:17:56.650 your perspective on how to show you care without coming across as disingenuous, because 296 00:17:56.650 --> 00:18:00.920 I think a lot of sales and marketing folks, especially this year, have 297 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.359 been struggling with this. Right I had a linkedin post that was just like, 298 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.160 Hey, if you and this was like in early March, if you 299 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.279 see an email that says covid, don't assume it's being opportunistic. If you 300 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.269 see an email without covid, don't assume that they're being insensitive. So we're 301 00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:18.309 all kind of balancing this. How do we show that we care without seeming 302 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:23.109 disingenuous? Are there are some rules of the road or some reminders that you 303 00:18:23.269 --> 00:18:29.180 guys are talking to sales and marketing teams about in striking that balance? Yeah, 304 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:30.420 I take that on like the nine and twenty five and then I'll takeet 305 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:33.500 on the five to nine. Right. So like the in in your work 306 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:37.180 day, you know life and you're barterly professional life and then your personal life, 307 00:18:37.220 --> 00:18:41.450 you know outside of that, which is majorly blended, as you know, 308 00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:44.130 as the worlds have collided. You know here, if you think about 309 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:45.529 it in terms of the five, then hundred and twenty five, right now, 310 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:49.529 you need to be genuinely caring about the problems that you're you're trying to 311 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:52.890 sell to, right if you're if you're a salesperson, for example, and 312 00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:56.279 saving with marketing, if you don't care about the product and you don't care 313 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:57.559 about the you know the person on the other side. You're going to market 314 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.359 to them the way you don't want to be marketed to yourself. Again. 315 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.079 It's just you know that this not hard concepts to grasp. It's just a 316 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:08.000 matter of thinking about what is that person's experience actually generally, you know, 317 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.029 being created as you continue to go through that, that you know the relationship. 318 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:15.069 It's the same thing on the five to nine, which is, you 319 00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:17.829 know, every sale, the good sales rep builds a relationship with with the 320 00:19:17.869 --> 00:19:19.309 person they're selling to. Right, you end up finding out whether like their 321 00:19:19.349 --> 00:19:23.339 kids or whatever it is. You have to genuinely care and be authentic about 322 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:26.259 that, you know. And what happens is you see too many sales reps 323 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:29.740 trying to graph that straws to say like, well, this person went to 324 00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:32.180 this college. Well, I'm just going to mention that and that's like and 325 00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:36.380 that's me relating to the person. That's totally focusness. Right on the nine 326 00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:40.009 hundred and twenty five, it's relevancy. How relevant are you being into what 327 00:19:40.210 --> 00:19:42.809 my problems are at this specific moment and how you actually helped me solve those 328 00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:48.569 specific problems? On the five to nine, it's about relatability. How am 329 00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:52.450 I actually able to truly relate and genuinely and authentically relate to in terms of 330 00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:53.640 the debt that side of things? Right, we're talking about the Broncos and 331 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.279 patriots. Right, it's because I know about football. But if I knew 332 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.759 nothing about football and I started to say, Oh, yeah, I love 333 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:00.720 I love the Denver Broncos. You know, I went to a game, 334 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.839 and you're like cool, you know, that's they just if you drop off 335 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.630 on there, all right, I love that. That's kind of the litmus 336 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.069 test. Like, if someone said this to me, would I have something 337 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:15.910 to respond with or would I say cool, like you just said? Because 338 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:19.190 I've had sales ups top on a call with me and they throw something out 339 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:25.779 there and like it's just not natural in conversation. Right, and I like 340 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:27.779 the way you break that down. Relevant to the nine hundred and twenty five 341 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:34.259 and relatable to the five to nine. But don't just don't stretch. I 342 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:37.930 had I had a sales rep that we were training as the earlier days of 343 00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:41.450 Alice, and we were going through this, and this where we started learning 344 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:44.250 the power of like the five to nine side of things and like learning and 345 00:20:44.369 --> 00:20:47.970 talking to you know, the NFL, the broncoes, your kids hiking, 346 00:20:48.049 --> 00:20:51.559 whatever it might be. In this one guy goes, he goes. Well, 347 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:52.279 I don't care, you know, if I find out that that they 348 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.279 want to University of Florid, I'm just going to be like go gators. 349 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.440 I'm like, well, that is the most like anti authentic thing you could 350 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.440 ever do to anything. And of course you're going to sift through the bout. 351 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.079 Who's your favorite player? Oh, do you see the year? You 352 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:03.789 know, when Blah, Blah Blah happened? All of a sudden, you 353 00:21:03.789 --> 00:21:07.029 now look like an idiot, you know, on the other other side of 354 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:10.109 it. So this is this is a world where you're going to realize it's 355 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:15.710 going to move from attention getting to action driving, and action driving meaning it's 356 00:21:15.750 --> 00:21:18.140 about the relevancy in the relatability and how you're taking the nine twent five and 357 00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:22.339 the five to nine and mashing it together to create emotional resonance. And it's 358 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:26.579 going to be like, you know, everyone in the and the past, 359 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:29.500 and this is something that's happened and gotten even worse now because of Covid and 360 00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:33.930 you know, events and all them in person things getting blown away the digital 361 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:37.130 world has gotten even worse about scaling quantity because they're like, oh my God, 362 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:38.849 we got to keep hitting our numbers. Let's just keep hammering and torturing 363 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:41.130 the hell out of all these folks. You know, spring awful circle here, 364 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:45.529 you know, to to the end game here. How do you change 365 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:48.680 that mentality right now, as marketers and and sales people, how do you 366 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.440 unite, how do you align, how do you really drive that as a 367 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.559 as a unified front? and that's really hard because the the technology hasn't truly 368 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:57.160 caught up to that. So you have to think about it in a simple 369 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.109 concept. Take those touches or impressions, you know, where it's one dimension 370 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:06.190 on your throne, something out there, and changing that to a moment and 371 00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:10.069 just and all that is is bring the human into that, let the human 372 00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:14.710 invest the time into those specific places and that's where you actually change that change 373 00:22:14.750 --> 00:22:17.819 that fundamental thing. Yeah, I love that. We talked about the video 374 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:22.220 example. We're going through a big migration here at sweet fish, transitioning to 375 00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:26.299 a new project management system in a sauna. And now the goal there, 376 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:30.890 with any project management system, especially with the service based company like ours, 377 00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:33.130 is how do you make it repeatable? Right. How do you make the 378 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:37.650 the onboarding, the next step, the handoff to this person, the incorporation 379 00:22:37.730 --> 00:22:41.450 of of this. But it doesn't mean that every step needs to be fully 380 00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:45.440 automated. Right. We can say like, like you said, I thought 381 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.279 that was a really good example, whether it's a CSM or a sales wrap, 382 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.799 pre sale or post sale. Have them interject, give them a template, 383 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.079 give them a jumping off point, but have them customized. Twenty percent 384 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.549 of it right, and that still gives you the opportunity to create a moment. 385 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:03.190 Greg if, if, let's say, we had you back on, 386 00:23:03.309 --> 00:23:06.069 I can't do the math real quick to see if we were in a year 387 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:08.470 what episode number we would be to have you on for a third time. 388 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:11.269 But let's say that's the case. What do you think we're going to be 389 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:18.460 talking about in the changes to the way sales people and marketers approach personal experience? 390 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:21.140 What do you think we'll be talking about if we had you on twelve 391 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:26.059 months from now? Well, I'm I you can really see this happening without 392 00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:29.569 being called personal experience. We're just trying to coin that as the concept because 393 00:23:29.569 --> 00:23:33.170 again, it's the persona to the person, and you'll start to see that 394 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:37.650 these technology platforms are trying to go from even the ABM, the Colt base 395 00:23:37.690 --> 00:23:41.720 platforms right and the customer experience focus, prodot forms are going down to the 396 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.039 individual one to one level. So you're going to just start to see more 397 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.480 about how are you actually able to, you know, empower data to be 398 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.480 able to have these one to one relationships? That's it. that. That's 399 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.720 like the fundamentals in terms of how of how you'll see. You'll see that 400 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.670 playing out. So I think that'll be an exciting moment that will happen there. 401 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:00.430 And I also feel like in a year from now you'll start to see 402 00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.029 events and things coming back yet, but I think they're going to be very, 403 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.910 very different in terms of that. So the personal experience in person is 404 00:24:07.990 --> 00:24:11.299 going to be vastly different from that too. So yeah, I think that's 405 00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:14.500 it's going to be really excited to see how how marketing sales makes that transition 406 00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:18.220 from you know, this this like torturing world to the you know, the 407 00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.460 the like prop up and relate authentically and genuinely care about those folks too. 408 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:25.769 Yeah, I love the way that you put so many things today, Greg. 409 00:24:25.930 --> 00:24:29.250 You know, going from touches, which sounds creepy, to emotional resonance, 410 00:24:29.329 --> 00:24:32.450 which sounds like a really good thing that you know that I want to 411 00:24:32.609 --> 00:24:36.890 have both as they as the giver and the receiver. You talked about being 412 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:40.319 relevant for the nine hundred and twenty five, being relatable to the five to 413 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.680 nine and injecting the the person, into otherwise automated steps, those sorts of 414 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:51.640 things to create those opportunities for emotional resonance. Grant, if anybody listening to 415 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.430 this is not as familiar with you as James and I in the sweetfish team 416 00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:57.549 are, with the best way for them to reach out or stay connected with 417 00:24:57.710 --> 00:25:00.109 you in the last team. Yeah, so you're going to reach me the 418 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:07.980 websites at Hellascom A, L Y seecom or Egg Greg at alicecom. Just 419 00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:10.980 don't spam me or torture me, please. Or Linkedin, you know, 420 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:14.140 is is also good. And please don't torture my email, which I'm getting 421 00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:15.539 hammered every single day, you know, all the time. So yeah, 422 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:18.579 any of those works. I love it, Greg. Thank you so much, 423 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.369 and it would be disingenuous for me to say go patriots, so I'm 424 00:25:22.369 --> 00:25:26.849 not going to not going to say that, but otherwise I wish you well, 425 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:29.529 I wish you well in your daddy daughter dates, but I do not 426 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:32.369 wish the Patriots well, and not just hey, I'm just being honest, 427 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:33.809 man, but thank you for being on the show today. I really appreciate 428 00:25:33.849 --> 00:25:37.359 it. It's better than you say go bucks right now, and that's saying 429 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.440 yeah, top pretties. You know, there we go. We're getting not 430 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.279 right habit show man. This has been fantastic. Thanks again for the time 431 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.680 and being on the show, Greg, appreciate it. For the longest time 432 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.509 I was asking people to leave a review of BB growth and apple podcasts, 433 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:57.549 but I realize that was kind of stupid because leaving a review is way harder 434 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:02.589 than just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit. 435 00:26:02.829 --> 00:26:04.740 Instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just going to ask you 436 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:08.779 to go to bb growth and apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the 437 00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:12.660 ratings and reviews section and just tap the number of stars you want to give 438 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:18.140 us. No review necessary, super easy and I promise it will help us 439 00:26:18.140 --> 00:26:22.009 out a ton. If you want to copy on my book content base networking, 440 00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:25.130 just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'll send one 441 00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:29.130 your way text me at four hundred seven for and I know three hundred and 442 00:26:29.130 --> 00:26:30.089 thirty two eight