1302: Stop Sending Highly Designed Marketing Emails w/ Florian Frese

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.150 Welcome back to beb growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. I'm 2 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:12.429 joined today by Florian Friezer. He's the marketing lead over at container exchange. 3 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:15.750 Floria, and how's it going today and what did you have for breakfast this 4 00:00:15.869 --> 00:00:19.629 morning? I'm curious. Good job, man. Actually, today I had 5 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:23.820 nothing for breakfast at all because I had way too much for dinner last night, 6 00:00:25.059 --> 00:00:28.859 so so skipt it and then had some takeaway food by lunch. What 7 00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:33.579 about you men? Let's see, I haven't eaten anything yet. It's earlier 8 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:36.450 in the day. I'm mountain time, you're in Germany and it was just 9 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:39.329 coffee for me. So you know, we're not setting a good example, 10 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:42.770 but hey, at least we're honest about it. We're going to be talking 11 00:00:42.770 --> 00:00:45.329 about a little bit more than breakfast today. We're going to be talking about 12 00:00:45.649 --> 00:00:50.960 some specific strategies you guys have been diving into when it comes to your email 13 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:55.159 performance. Tell us a little bit about why this is an area of passion 14 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.759 for you. Email as a channel, as a marketer and specifically in the 15 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.200 context over there at container exchange right now. Yeah, sure, I'm interesting 16 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:07.870 question, especially when I thought that it exchanged two years ago with the big 17 00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:11.670 challenge. We wanted to have, yeah, immediate recites. We wanted to 18 00:01:11.829 --> 00:01:15.349 have a lead from the first week on, but at the same time we 19 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:21.739 had to build up seo or brand everything else. So so email marketing kind 20 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:25.099 of was to go to channel fast, to get an immediate response from people 21 00:01:25.739 --> 00:01:29.780 and and stay the same. When we started we sent out emails to to 22 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:34.689 like twenty companies per week. Now we scaled it to like Onezero five hundred 23 00:01:34.730 --> 00:01:38.969 companies per week for for our outreach cadences. And Yeah, have seen the 24 00:01:40.209 --> 00:01:45.569 great success since then. And when you say, okay, we decided Seo 25 00:01:45.650 --> 00:01:49.000 is going to take a while thought, leadership content, some other things that 26 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.920 we want to spend up, like webinars and those sorts of things are going 27 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.719 to take some planning, but we can start emailing people today. Put a 28 00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.519 little bit of context to that. Where you were you building email caidens has 29 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.909 for the str team, for booking meetings, where you doing a little bit 30 00:02:02.909 --> 00:02:07.069 of market research, where you trying to generates more in as and put some 31 00:02:07.269 --> 00:02:10.229 content directly in front of people? What was the angle that you started with 32 00:02:10.349 --> 00:02:14.270 the email channel on? And then we can talk a little bit about how 33 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:17.500 that evolved from there. As the story is actually better because when I started 34 00:02:17.620 --> 00:02:22.620 it was only one face guy and myself and they had no idea about my 35 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:27.659 role. Marketing did not exist at exchange. But our CEOS back then gave 36 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:31.289 me a list of super random companies somewhere in Africa and gave me that told 37 00:02:31.370 --> 00:02:35.490 me, hey, please call them and sign them up, and I was 38 00:02:35.569 --> 00:02:38.530 like, well, that that duck. That could be done better. That's 39 00:02:38.569 --> 00:02:42.050 difficult, that's annoying, they're not interested in what I do. This is 40 00:02:42.129 --> 00:02:46.039 why let's send them emails first to to ask for the right contact person, 41 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:51.919 to to see if they get the right company type, if they are in 42 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.120 the same market and so on. This is how we stouted with with may 43 00:02:55.199 --> 00:03:00.509 chimp in the beginning. Actually, I can remember when we designed like perfectly 44 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:07.189 looking, yeah, marketing email that everyone deleted immediately because nobody likes marketing emails. 45 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.909 But this is how we started, because I was super annoyed by code 46 00:03:10.949 --> 00:03:15.620 calling. Call them and sign them up. I love that. And then 47 00:03:15.659 --> 00:03:20.060 your your response was was even better. So from there you had a list 48 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:23.539 of random companies. You took the approach of well, let's not just hit 49 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:29.969 these folks with in a sales initiation. Let's do some discovery. What were 50 00:03:30.050 --> 00:03:31.729 the next steps there? From you, you know, some folks listening this, 51 00:03:31.849 --> 00:03:35.650 or maybe you know further along like to where you guys are today, 52 00:03:35.689 --> 00:03:38.210 but I think some early stage companies or, you know, a new marketing 53 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:43.879 leader stepping in and seeing emails not really being done. Well there, you 54 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:46.599 know, these overdesigned emails. We need to back off of that a bit. 55 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.560 We need to change things up. What were some of the things that 56 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:54.319 you guys did from their expanding, expanding and out? Did you see some 57 00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:00.710 good success by taking that research based approach to your emails first? kind of 58 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:03.590 a long, rambling question, but what happened next is basically yeah, I 59 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:10.139 love that you mentioned over the designed emails, because this is what we did 60 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:14.539 in the beginning, but turned out as a huge mistake because people identify these 61 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.779 emails is marketing emails. And Yeah, they did let them immediately. So 62 00:04:17.939 --> 00:04:23.459 we have seen, yeah, most success, or the biggest change in success, 63 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:28.970 happened when we change from from your beautiful designed email to to plain text 64 00:04:29.050 --> 00:04:31.930 emails, because this is how our industry, how people and contain the logistics 65 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:36.930 and like talk to each other and communicate. They have short, specific emails 66 00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:41.759 with a short subject line and then, ideally, you make it as easy 67 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.079 as possible for them to get back to you. Sometimes it's as easy as 68 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.360 yeah, please give me a yes or no. That could be the call 69 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.839 direction in the end. But how we started? And let's talk about list 70 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.990 building first, because in our case we had a few, you could call 71 00:04:56.029 --> 00:05:00.430 them multiplicators, but we had freight forwarding networks or associations, and I think 72 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:04.269 they are in every other exist in every industry, and we started there. 73 00:05:04.790 --> 00:05:09.500 We are reached out to to their members, like members of our partner networks. 74 00:05:09.980 --> 00:05:13.540 And then, yeah, they are stairs lists for everything in the Internet. 75 00:05:13.819 --> 00:05:17.819 You can basically just scrape them, make sure the data quality is good 76 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:21.009 enough, because this is, yeah, super crucial, and that you don't 77 00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:27.610 send out, yeah, generic emails to five thousand companies. It's important to 78 00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:31.250 get the data right to be able to customize it, and then you're not 79 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:35.000 good to go. But it's a great stubt yeah, absolutely. As you 80 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.839 and I were talking a little bit offline, for and you've mentioned something that 81 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:45.120 I find interesting. I've talked to you rex bevery sten recently about how he's 82 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.680 just such a big PROPO on it in sales development, of dividing up the 83 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:54.470 task so that you have one person gathering data, one person validating data, 84 00:05:54.629 --> 00:05:57.990 someone else sending the email, someone else making the calls, so that you 85 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:02.629 can make it a really efficient outbound engine. Here we're talking less about necessarily 86 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:06.819 sales development. That's straight to you know, requesting demos. You're doing some 87 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:13.579 market research and some education first, but that same methodology of looking at the 88 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:17.730 entire process, from lead building to data enrichment to outreach, to looking and 89 00:06:17.889 --> 00:06:24.410 analyzing at how the email is performing or your email channel is performing, dividing 90 00:06:24.569 --> 00:06:28.490 that up very meticulously to make it very efficient. What did that look like 91 00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:33.160 for you guys? Yeah, we always call them our freelance again, yes, 92 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:40.800 exchange because, yeah, we have a working student internally. She's only 93 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:47.670 responsible for making sure that we have enough people ready for email campaigns and she 94 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:53.629 has a handful of freelancers who work for her. And if the freelancers, 95 00:06:53.670 --> 00:06:58.389 we split them up in two groups basically. So our job internally is to 96 00:06:58.670 --> 00:07:01.500 find the right lists and then we have actually three groups with like one free 97 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:05.259 Lancer who scrapes these this fast to put them into a seas. We are 98 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:10.339 exercided then we have one free Lancer, because the problem with all these lists 99 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:13.620 most of them are Super Oil, door out data day, like tons of 100 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:16.490 like data you don't want in your systems. This is why we have one 101 00:07:16.649 --> 00:07:20.170 free lance who does website checks. Fuss. So so this free Lance that 102 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:25.170 tells us is this company even in your industry? Does the website work? 103 00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:29.569 Do they still exist, and so on, to make sure we don't waste 104 00:07:29.649 --> 00:07:34.879 resources when we give these some are companies to free lances who find contact informations. 105 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:40.160 Fuss, because this is the tricky, the more time consuming and expensive 106 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.509 pot yes, and then we have internally, we do duplica checks to make 107 00:07:44.589 --> 00:07:48.230 sure we don't upload the same context twice to our CEM system, pipe drive 108 00:07:48.310 --> 00:07:54.629 in now case. And Yeah, prepare our exfo fires or contacts on pipe 109 00:07:54.670 --> 00:08:00.939 drive for emailatenss awesome and I love that. And just pushing each one of 110 00:08:01.019 --> 00:08:03.860 the stabs to the person that's best suited for it and can be most efficient 111 00:08:05.019 --> 00:08:07.459 and is most cost effective for whatever you know. That piece of the the 112 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:11.860 process is. It sounds like that's really what you guys are trying to do. 113 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:15.889 You mentioned a little of this before. Short subject line, Short emails, 114 00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:18.009 plain text emails. Can you give us some examples of things that you 115 00:08:18.089 --> 00:08:22.569 tried that didn't work, some things that surprise you and and maybe did work? 116 00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:26.370 How Short are we talking? What some copy that performed really well? 117 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:30.439 Give us a little peek in of the behind the curtain there. Even if 118 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.639 other folks aren't selling in the container logistic space, there are some things that 119 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.720 they could maybe draw parallels from, things that you guys did that worked really 120 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.590 well. Yeah, I think it's most important to to adapt to the industry 121 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:46.429 you're in. And then our industries people have still have yet they are their 122 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:52.190 equipment and exo sheets sometimes, and then they send newsletters to to their subscribers 123 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:56.220 or shared on linkedin. Okay, guys, are you interested in buying containers? 124 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:00.379 And then they give you a list of like fifty locations, and we 125 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:03.379 did not want to do the same, but we are including two or three 126 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:09.860 specific offers and with our emails, Hey, can you use these containers in 127 00:09:09.129 --> 00:09:15.169 location, let's say in do Bai to Shanghai, China, and then more 128 00:09:15.250 --> 00:09:18.690 that helps most people to first of all understand what we do, but most 129 00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:20.730 of the time they get back to us say yes, I can use them. 130 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.279 Please tell me more or no? I cannot use containers in Dubai, 131 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.159 but do you have some in, I don't know, Europe, for instance? 132 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:33.399 This has been quite successful Fus, not because we're so smart and the 133 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.600 email templates was so great, but because this is how people in our industry 134 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.590 communicate with each other. Yeah, yeah, so, so, basically what 135 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:45.269 I hear you saying they're foreign is, I mean one you can at took 136 00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:50.470 the old school way of like basically posting a brochure via email or via Linkedin, 137 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:52.940 like hey, that's not going to work. Just Hey, here's what 138 00:09:52.100 --> 00:09:56.259 we have and here are the prices. It's also if you if you want 139 00:09:56.299 --> 00:10:00.379 it. I think most folks listening to this or are beyond that much like 140 00:10:00.500 --> 00:10:03.659 you are, and you brought that thinking to your organization. But then the 141 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:07.330 next step, I think is is pretty interesting. Saying even folks who are 142 00:10:07.450 --> 00:10:11.370 doing good content marketing, good nurture campaigns, or maybe missing the boat a 143 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:15.610 little bit here, where they're afraid to ask kind of a short leading question, 144 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.649 right and and to me I can draw parallel to what we do here 145 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:22.279 at sweet fish. Oftentimes for our customers, we're helping them reach out to 146 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.159 potential podcast guests. And what they want to do is say, like here's 147 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.559 a paragraph on the podcast, here's who else we'd had on the PODCAST, 148 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.080 here's, you know, what you could probably talk about, and it ends 149 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.950 up being like this five paragraph email, whereas what we typically recommend is like 150 00:10:39.269 --> 00:10:41.629 include the name of the show, what's it about, and then up for 151 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:46.470 it like literally a short, three sentence email. And I get pushback on 152 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.740 that, saying well, it doesn't say enough. And where where? I 153 00:10:50.899 --> 00:10:52.539 come back to that and say, well, that's the point. It doesn't 154 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.899 say enough to answer everything. So you create a curiosity gap and therefore the 155 00:10:56.980 --> 00:11:01.379 person on the other end of the email is prompted to step across that gap 156 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:03.330 and say well, well, what else, or, in your case, 157 00:11:03.409 --> 00:11:07.809 to answer a simple question that leads them to something else. Is that kind 158 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:11.409 of the thinking you guys generally take with some of these email templates that have 159 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:15.809 been performing well? Yeah, I mean it's exactly and what you mentioned. 160 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:20.600 That's so important to understand the role of emaus. Nobody's gonna like sign up 161 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:26.919 for a thousands of dollar subscription plan based on one email it for us, 162 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:30.440 we see this as you could call it says enablement, but it's important to 163 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.629 to identified right contact person, makes sure they've seen my engage with your brand 164 00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:41.269 at least once and then make a potential call afterwards. Easier for for our 165 00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:43.870 I scs internally because people are already hoped. They want to know more, 166 00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:48.700 because it's not everything's in the email. And then, yeah, we put 167 00:11:48.740 --> 00:11:52.419 our if the awesome two situation where they have valuable phone calls. That that 168 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:58.860 makes sense, because they sometimes sometimes, when you spend time on Colde call 169 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.210 and you call at one hundred companies at day without having one success, and 170 00:12:03.529 --> 00:12:09.090 if you yeah, prepare our elites a little bit with code emails before ends 171 00:12:09.129 --> 00:12:13.970 and it becomes much easier for our I see als. Hey, everybody, 172 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:18.120 logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the show for a 173 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.840 while, you know we're big proponents of putting out original, organic content on 174 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.080 linked in, but one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like 175 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.470 ours is to easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I 176 00:12:30.629 --> 00:12:33.309 was really excited when I heard about shield the other day from a connection on, 177 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:37.029 you guessed it, linked in. Since our team started using shield, 178 00:12:37.070 --> 00:12:43.070 I've loved how it's let us easily track and analyze the performance of our linkedin 179 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:48.019 content without having the manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates 180 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:52.259 some dash boards that are incredibly useful to see things like what content has been 181 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.820 performing the best and what days of the week are we getting the most engagement 182 00:12:56.179 --> 00:13:01.610 and our average views proposed. I highly suggest you guys check out this tool 183 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.049 if you're putting out content on Linkedin, and if you're not, you should 184 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:07.409 be. It's been a game changer for us. If you go to shield 185 00:13:07.450 --> 00:13:11.490 APP DOT AI and check out the ten day free trial, you can even 186 00:13:11.570 --> 00:13:16.960 use our promo code be to be growth to get a twenty five percent discount. 187 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:22.039 Again, that's shield APP DOT AI and that Promo Code is be the 188 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.240 number to be gross all one word. All right, let's get back to 189 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:31.190 the show. I love it. Man, tell us a little bit about 190 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:35.389 what the structure looks like. You mentioned when you started there's one on sales, 191 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:41.269 one marketing person and marketing really didn't exist as a function. So you've 192 00:13:41.269 --> 00:13:45.340 kind of built that up over the last couple of years. Do the SDRS? 193 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.059 How many SDRs do you have? Do they report up into marketing and 194 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.340 how is that? How is that flow happening? Is Marketing sending out those 195 00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:56.009 emails, kind of fielding those responses and then handing those over to SDRs to 196 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:00.889 make out bound calls to the folks who have engaged with the emails? Or 197 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:05.009 does it look a little bit different than that? Not that it looks looks 198 00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:09.450 similar. We test that what we actually use different tools. We started with 199 00:14:09.610 --> 00:14:13.799 reply, I oh. Now we switch to Clint team, Clintcom, I 200 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.799 think, and we, as the marketing team, I responsible for a setting 201 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:24.149 up cadences and making sure that making uploading context to cadences and pipe drives and 202 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:31.350 then we automatically create activities and deals on pipe drive if people response and if 203 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:35.269 they don't response, we get your one or two phone calls. I will 204 00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:39.259 if the ass try to reach them. If they cannot reach them, the 205 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:46.700 people in our cadences go back to retargeting cadences. We stopped the Kaden's basically 206 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:48.419 for five, six, seven weeks and then follow up with the people that 207 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:52.450 didn't get back to us. And this is how yeah, sales the FD 208 00:14:52.529 --> 00:14:56.929 as report to our WEP of face and marketing is separated from it. But 209 00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:01.250 this is how yeah, stay is a marketing alignment is yeah, works perfectly 210 00:15:01.330 --> 00:15:07.000 at exchange because we create these deals automatically. They have every email on their 211 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.559 pipe drive history or activity look, however you call it, and it was 212 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.360 perfectly fine new. So it sounds like where we're a lot of marketing and 213 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.669 sales teams, marketing is responsible for for the content. They may or may 214 00:15:22.710 --> 00:15:26.789 not be involved in in writing those emails, but they're oftentimes not setting up 215 00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:31.710 the cadences, setting up some automation and kind of teeing things up for the 216 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:35.419 strs and the rest of the sales team. Why, in your opinion, 217 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:39.139 was it so important for you guys to go further, to say hey, 218 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:43.100 we're going to set up some automation for you in the CRM, we're gonna 219 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.340 do you think some some marketers just don't see the value in going that far, 220 00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:52.730 or sales is like that. Don't touch the CRM sales force or pipe 221 00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:56.090 drive. That's that's our world. What's kind of led to you guys to 222 00:15:56.250 --> 00:16:02.009 this good working relationship where it seems like marketings going into sales is world a 223 00:16:02.129 --> 00:16:06.080 little bit more than in a lot of other organizations. Yeah, I think 224 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.000 maybe just crew. That way. It exchange that we mean we hired the 225 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:17.960 first SC awsome when we already had sent out email campaigns for almost a year 226 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.509 or so. But I wouldn't think in such silos that marketing does this. 227 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:26.269 And yes, the ars to death and then we have a count executive that 228 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.309 just closed use. I think it makes a lot of sense to kind of 229 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:34.539 have everyone aligned with the same goals. And for us, I mean our 230 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:38.980 job in marketing is make sure that we grow awareness, that we get enough 231 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.460 in bound leads and that we make selling as easy as possible for the sales 232 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:47.730 team. And if that include some cold emails and setting up contact on on 233 00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:51.330 pipe drive, I'm more than happy with that if that leads to to more 234 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:55.009 sales. Indian. Yeah, I love it. I think it's part of 235 00:16:55.129 --> 00:16:57.690 this. I've heard Chris Walker talk about this. The common play bulk, 236 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:02.200 at least in Sass, is all right. You get a couple of early 237 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:07.640 deals. They're usually relationship based, but on the the founders relationships and and 238 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.079 things like that, or a few industry connections, and it's kind of the 239 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.400 same way with maybe an older school company that's kind of been, you know, 240 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.829 steady but not necessarily growing like crazy. I don't necessary really know the 241 00:17:18.910 --> 00:17:22.789 trajectory over it exchange. But you know something similar to that, and the 242 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:26.710 thinking is, well, we just need to beef up on sales, we 243 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:30.299 need to hire success drs, two a's. They're going to go outbound and 244 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.140 when that doesn't work, then we're going to bring in marketing. For you 245 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:38.019 guys, you brought in marketing and then once you started to generate, once 246 00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:44.059 you started to generate both demand and leads, then you start to fill up, 247 00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:47.210 you know, the sales head count. So you guys kind of flipped 248 00:17:47.250 --> 00:17:51.369 that typical game plan around, which is something I here Chris talking about a 249 00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:55.769 good bit. So I think that's really interesting. Florian here recently. Is 250 00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:59.519 there anything you know as it comes to this email execution that you guys are 251 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.200 iterating on continuing to see success with? Is there? Is there anything really 252 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:07.960 in particular that you're proud of that your team is accomplished in this area recently? 253 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:15.750 I think when you talk about managing different freelances, adding contact to to 254 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:19.470 email, outreach to us and so on, it's easily to to only look 255 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:22.230 at numbers. Hey, we had so many people as in our lists, 256 00:18:22.309 --> 00:18:27.700 these men you got qualified. We added five hundred two our email outreach tours. 257 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:33.259 Fifty responded, whatever. That's super easy. But for me it's about 258 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:38.660 it's about the people behind it actually, because we're so dependent on these freelancers 259 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.690 who, yeah, find contact information for us and if they do a good 260 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:48.730 job, if they are happy with the work we offer, the quality will 261 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:52.490 increase the bonds, but we'll go down. We have less problems, Ye, 262 00:18:52.769 --> 00:18:57.440 keeping our CM system clean, and I think that's an interesting perspective that 263 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:03.519 many people oftentimes forget that even with like freelancers, it makes no sense if 264 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.039 you like, change them every other week and because you only look at the 265 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.069 like output. In the end. I think it's important to to set up 266 00:19:11.109 --> 00:19:15.509 relationships with them and make not convinced them, but let them feel and make 267 00:19:15.589 --> 00:19:18.109 them feel important. They are part of the team, and only if everyone's 268 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.589 happy and if only if everyone's like motivated understand the goal, then we can 269 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:26.900 achieve our goals. And I think that's what many people forget when it comes 270 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:32.539 to email outreach. Yeah, and managing contractor and vendor relationships, where that's 271 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:36.339 an agency, a freelancer gang, as you guys call them at exchange. 272 00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:37.500 I love that. By the way. You know, one of our core 273 00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:41.450 values here at sweet fish is on the result, meaning I'm not just responsible 274 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:45.049 for my little peace and especially, I think this is important as we round 275 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:51.009 out the conversation talking about whether it's a pointment setting, sales, development, 276 00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:55.599 email, marketing, nursure campaigns, as you divide it up, it can 277 00:19:55.640 --> 00:20:00.200 be very easy to then get siloed and everybody's just heads down. I do 278 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.799 my think, this is what I do, this is what I'm responsible for. 279 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:04.880 You know, and sweet fish we're with you, that you want to 280 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.109 do that where you can to gain efficiencies, but you want to make sure 281 00:20:08.190 --> 00:20:12.269 that you're lifting everybody's heads up to see this is the result and I'm actually 282 00:20:12.309 --> 00:20:18.589 responsible for this is what my contribution leads to, because that instills a sense 283 00:20:18.670 --> 00:20:21.660 of ownership, which, you know, we talked about in that core value 284 00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:25.500 of on the result, and it leads to that motivation. Without that ownership 285 00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:29.819 and that feeling of contribution, it's tough to say hey, get motivated, 286 00:20:29.900 --> 00:20:33.500 let's let's let's decrease that bounce rate. But when you connect that decrease in 287 00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.690 bounce rate to, let's say, you know, amount of pipeline generated or 288 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.410 number of new opportunities generated, then that's a little bit more exciting. You 289 00:20:41.490 --> 00:20:45.529 give people a little bit more vision floor and we've talked a lot about things 290 00:20:45.569 --> 00:20:48.369 that you guys have done well, especially when it comes to email. Is 291 00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:52.599 there any area of either email or your marketing right now that that you guys 292 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:57.359 are kind of struggling with or just kind of wrestling through that you know sharing 293 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:03.319 might be an encouragement or prompts some thoughts for other marketers out there that are 294 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.029 may be going through some similar things where they're trying to figure out maybe a 295 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:11.430 solution to a tough problem based on where they're at and their evolution of their 296 00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:17.190 own email marketing. Yeah, I'm obviously forgetting to to set some blaze holds. 297 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:21.900 That always happen sometimes, that you suddenly sent out weird emails. Everyone 298 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:26.740 knows these stories. But since we, I mean we keep on adding people 299 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:33.130 to oursm system, and the more people we add, the more we think 300 00:21:33.210 --> 00:21:37.730 about retargeting cadences. Just because we did in ones doesn't mean that everyone exhales 301 00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:42.529 some after a few days by a subscription played after a few days. This 302 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:47.440 is why data quality is so important for us, because if you don't spending 303 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:49.000 not enough time on it in the beginning, when you add them to the 304 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.559 system, you have to download them again go through exol files manually to make 305 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.160 sure the yet the name. The name so good that you don't have private, 306 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.710 limited, GmbH whatever in the company name. So keeping that clean is 307 00:22:03.269 --> 00:22:07.269 really, really important. But it's difficult to come up with a solution that 308 00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:12.269 does not involve a manual work. But if you think about that first, 309 00:22:12.630 --> 00:22:15.819 when you upload people to a CEM system, says a lot of time afterwards. 310 00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:21.180 Yeah, when I mean you also shared some of your experiences. How 311 00:22:21.579 --> 00:22:26.500 how do you engage and cold email outreachis Tory even do that, or how 312 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:29.299 do you? Yeah, but the man. This is the first time in 313 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:30.849 a while I've actually gotten a question back from a guest on the pike. 314 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:33.890 I said, Coulda see for for even asking their floor in you know, 315 00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:38.970 it's interesting. There's really three channels that that we see work really well for 316 00:22:40.049 --> 00:22:42.769 us here at sweet fish. One is all about content in generating that inbound 317 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:47.000 channel, which it kind of Meta. It's our podcast, they show that 318 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.000 we're on right now, and also kind of one a to that is linkedin 319 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.880 because we repurpose a lot of the content from our pillar channel here on bb 320 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.230 growth to linkedin content. Number two is we see a lot of guests that 321 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:04.670 we have on the show turn into customers because we're building relationships with the people 322 00:23:04.710 --> 00:23:10.950 that we serve. But we talked about monning, right. So that's number 323 00:23:10.990 --> 00:23:12.500 two. It's related to the PODCAST, but it's different, right. It's 324 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:15.740 not the inbound it's what we call content based networking. And then three, 325 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:21.299 we do we are doing some outbound email campaigns right now and we found that, 326 00:23:21.579 --> 00:23:23.500 well, Hey, what we do is in pretty high demand right now. 327 00:23:23.619 --> 00:23:29.170 Podcasting is on that high trajectory. We don't need to really kind of 328 00:23:29.210 --> 00:23:32.329 like sell the value prop like. Sometimes it's just hey, hey, it's 329 00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:34.809 a podcast on your radar for two thousand and twenty. We've done some creative 330 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:41.680 things like doing some some personalization based on area, like Hey, emailing people 331 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.960 in Tampa, like hey, if the NFL season actually happens, going to 332 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.960 be interesting see what Tom Brady does down there. As much as I'm a 333 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.079 broncos Fan and not a patriots fan. We found that, like, hey, 334 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.789 tying something to something local and taking some time to personalize based on geography 335 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:02.309 can be really effective. So those are three channels to one is inbound. 336 00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:07.710 Two is somewhat outbound in content based networking, and then the other is outbound, 337 00:24:07.750 --> 00:24:10.140 but on the email side. Those are some things we're seeing that are 338 00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:12.339 interesting. I know, and what you just mentioned the super important. That 339 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:18.140 real purpose in content or combining these channels can be super interesting, because we 340 00:24:18.339 --> 00:24:22.779 work a lot of let collecting data, publishing market reports, case studies, 341 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.009 when, when you combine these with outreach email campaigns, we could find, 342 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:30.130 instance, say, if you are freight forwarding company in Tru key, it 343 00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:34.809 is most likely that's use save this much amount of money with the exchange because 344 00:24:34.849 --> 00:24:38.720 you avoid the merge and attention charts, based on your replot that we have 345 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:44.039 just published that you've probably seen in the news. Anyways, that's that's great. 346 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.880 Get to to increase touch points with the brand and every pup with content, 347 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:55.470 and that work really good. First Yeah, absolutely. They the strategy 348 00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:57.990 is the same, whether it's, you know, reports and original research or 349 00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:03.069 your podcast or your webinar series, your blog series, the methodology, as 350 00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:07.779 posting about this on Linkedin last week, that identify your pillar pieces of content. 351 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:10.980 What are those that are just regular, that are baked in, that 352 00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:15.500 are somewhat easy for you right now and make sure that you're getting all the 353 00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:18.700 juice for the squeeze turning that into micro content. I mean I've even seen 354 00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:22.569 some of our customers at, say, Logan. I'm not really counting the 355 00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:26.210 downloads download numbers on our podcast because I know it's feeding our team, our 356 00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:30.210 sales team, with great sales enablement content, because when they're reaching out to 357 00:25:30.769 --> 00:25:36.920 an operations manager in West Africa or an HR leader in New York, they 358 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.720 can say, Hey, we interviewed someone just like that, just like you, 359 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.759 on our podcast. They probably had some good things to share, just 360 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.359 like I can take this interview and say, Hey, I talk to a 361 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:52.710 marketing leader who is, you know, was the first marketing lead at at 362 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:56.950 an older school company. You might find some interest in what florigin had to 363 00:25:56.990 --> 00:26:00.029 say. Right, especially, get a super out of here, you know, 364 00:26:00.109 --> 00:26:03.549 especially to the count base marketing, if you're taking these huge fums and 365 00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:06.819 you hey, I talked to your VP, head of something, whatever. 366 00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:10.619 Let's let's talk about how we get you on boards and it's will be perfect. 367 00:26:10.700 --> 00:26:12.299 Oh, Yep, absolutely well, florry in, this has been a 368 00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:17.539 great conversation. I could dive deep on email and content with you all day 369 00:26:17.579 --> 00:26:19.250 long. For the sake of time. Will wrap it up for listeners today. 370 00:26:19.369 --> 00:26:22.730 If anybody listening to this would like to stay connected with you, what's 371 00:26:22.769 --> 00:26:26.809 the best channel? What's the best way to reach out, ask any follow 372 00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:29.970 up questions or just stay connected with you? Man? Yeah, it sounds 373 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.480 perfect. If people have questions about B to be you met outreach more traditional 374 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.880 industries and that linkedin is a perfect place for that. More than have you 375 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.839 two to yeah, answer questions. Chap this practices and thanks for look for 376 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.759 having me on the show. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much forlorn. 377 00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:52.630 It's sweet fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content 378 00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:56.269 on the Internet for every job function in industry on the planet, for the 379 00:26:56.309 --> 00:27:00.430 BDB marketing industry, this show is how we're executing on that mission. If 380 00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:03.940 you know a marketing leader that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. 381 00:27:04.339 --> 00:27:07.779 Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, 382 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:11.619 but text me at four hundred seven for and I know three D and 383 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:15.420 Thirty two eight. Just shoot me their name, maybe a link to their 384 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:18.930 linkedin profile, and I'd love to check them out to see if we can 385 00:27:18.970 --> 00:27:19.769 get them on the show. Thanks A lot,