1287: 9 Things to Do in Your 1st 90 Days as a VP Marketing w/ Maya Grossman

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:09.310 Welcome back to BB growth. My name is James Carberry and I'm joined today 2 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:15.150 with Maya Grossman. My as a marketing executive with fifteen years of experience taking 3 00:00:15.189 --> 00:00:19.230 products to market and driving growth for fortune five hundred companies like Microsoft and Google, 4 00:00:19.550 --> 00:00:24.260 but also really fast growing startups cross be, two be and BBC products 5 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:28.019 previously in the reath. This is really the reason I wanted a chat with 6 00:00:28.140 --> 00:00:31.539 my previously, my was the VP of marketing for Kolu, where she helped 7 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:34.979 the company find product market fit and she drove to next growth. So, 8 00:00:35.380 --> 00:00:40.969 May I am really excited to chat with you today. I'll start by asking 9 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:44.450 this question, which is the most important question going to answer all day. 10 00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:50.159 Are you team Cocher? You Team Pepsi Neither, but thank you so much 11 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:54.840 for having me here. Neither. Okay, okay, I is to work 12 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.280 for Soda Stream, so I can't really, you know, find by the 13 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.520 enemy. Yeah, I get it, I get it. I will, 14 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:06.349 I will accept that non answer. My I'm really excited for this conversation. 15 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:11.310 We're going to be talking about what to do in your first ninety days as 16 00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:15.349 VP of marketing and an early stage start up, because I imagine it's incredibly 17 00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:18.390 overwhelming, right. There's so many things that you could do. What do 18 00:01:18.469 --> 00:01:22.019 you act? And so, as we kick off this conversation, something that 19 00:01:22.099 --> 00:01:25.180 we were talking about offline. You know, you said, James, I 20 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:29.939 had to figure out how do I constantly navigate between the long term and the 21 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:34.489 short term and I had to throw away the playbook. Can you can you 22 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:38.890 elaborate on that idea a little bit before we dive into some really specific things 23 00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:42.290 that you did in those first many days? Yeah, of course. So 24 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:46.609 here is what I meant. When you work for an early stage start up, 25 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:51.959 especially if they don't have product market fit yet, everything changes all the 26 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:56.599 time and you don't actually know who are the right customers. You don't know 27 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.549 if what you're doing is working. So you constantly have to change your assumptions 28 00:02:00.709 --> 00:02:05.310 and then go out and validate them. So you can't really commit to a 29 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:08.949 long term strategy, even if you really want to, because it's very likely 30 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:13.990 that a week into a six month marketing strategy you're going to have to, 31 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:16.860 you know, throw it away and start again. So you really have to 32 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:23.740 get comfortable with constantly going back and forth between what's right for the company and 33 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:27.020 what you need to do. In Marketing. So give us, give us 34 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:30.930 a little bit of contexts by a back up a little bit. Tell us 35 00:02:30.930 --> 00:02:34.289 a little rout colu. So you were you're there. You're their VP of 36 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:37.889 marketing. Give us a little bit of context there. So the so the 37 00:02:37.969 --> 00:02:40.449 rest of this interview, folks can listen kind of through the Lens of understanding 38 00:02:40.530 --> 00:02:45.080 what your background is. What your background was there? Yeah, of course. 39 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:47.919 So I was the first marketing hired. Coolu, a sentex start up. 40 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.680 We raised about forty million dollars at the time and I was in play 41 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:57.759 I think like number twenty five. So we were fairly early. And Kolu 42 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:01.469 is a mobile payment APP supporting small businesses. So it's a way for mom 43 00:03:01.550 --> 00:03:07.110 and pop shops to be able to accept mobile payment from customers. And as 44 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:10.469 the VP of marketing, I was actually responsible for both ends of the marketplace, 45 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:15.819 so driving more smba customers, but on the other hand also making sure 46 00:03:15.939 --> 00:03:20.860 that we bring in the customers so it's worth their while to use the payment 47 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:23.340 APP. Got It all right, my ass. So I want to dive 48 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:29.490 into your first ninety days. They're a Cooklu what you did, because I 49 00:03:29.610 --> 00:03:31.210 think this is going to help a whole lot of people. So you you 50 00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:35.770 mentioned that the first thing you did in your in your first ninety days, 51 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:38.610 was you interviewed everyone at the company to learn how they saw the product and 52 00:03:38.849 --> 00:03:43.639 and so you could evaluate how consistent the messaging was. Can you elaborate on 53 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.240 that? Force yeah, so early on, even during my interviews, I 54 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.120 asked people, you know, who are we actually talking to? I mean 55 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.159 smbs, that's great, but you know, it's a very wide audience and 56 00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:00.430 I got different answers from different people and I'm you know, I interviewed the 57 00:04:00.509 --> 00:04:03.310 CEO and the executive team, but I also interviewed the engineers, the product 58 00:04:03.430 --> 00:04:09.349 the sales team. I wanted to get everyone's perspective and the problem was we 59 00:04:09.430 --> 00:04:14.500 didn't have a lot of data, so we were mostly making assumptions based on 60 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:18.100 gut feeling, and I'm the kind of person who needs data. I need 61 00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:23.860 to know that I going into right direction. So, after going through those 62 00:04:23.939 --> 00:04:29.769 interviews and realizing there's no consistency here, I literally just opened a google form 63 00:04:30.050 --> 00:04:33.850 and send out a survey to our existing customers and asking them, please tell 64 00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:39.160 me who you are so I know if our assumptions were right or wrong, 65 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:45.720 and funny enough, we actually assumed most of the customers who were using the 66 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:49.800 APP were, you know, very young tex savvy, and it ended up 67 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.550 being, you know, people in their late S, having a family and 68 00:04:54.670 --> 00:04:58.990 being price conscious, which is, you know, miles away from where we 69 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:01.509 thought we were. But that that kind of taught us a lesson and from 70 00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:06.620 that moment on the entire company became a lot more data driven and we made 71 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:11.300 sure that we actually validate all of our assumptions before we kind of, you 72 00:05:11.379 --> 00:05:15.259 know, go out and create campaigns and talk to people. Was a wrong 73 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:18.660 messaging. Did you have a lot of pushback when you started, when you 74 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:23.009 before you sent that survey, or was it something that you were just like, 75 00:05:23.129 --> 00:05:26.050 you know what, I'm going to do this. What was the organization's 76 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:30.970 response to you reaching out and validating what you knew you needed to be validated? 77 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:35.120 Yeah, I mean there wasn't a ton of pushback, but there wasn't 78 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.519 a lot of support. It was like, you know, just kind of 79 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.600 do your job, but I don't tend to ask for permission, I ask 80 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.279 for forgiveness. So I just went ahead and did that, but you know, 81 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:47.639 I didn't come back and say hey, guys, you were wrong. 82 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.870 I took this information, I turned it into a presentation and I stood in 83 00:05:51.949 --> 00:05:57.790 front of the whole company and show them how validating data actually helped us great 84 00:05:57.829 --> 00:06:01.550 better messaging, and it's just opened up everyone's you know mine, to being 85 00:06:01.629 --> 00:06:06.100 more conscious about getting the right information. So it actually turned out to be 86 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:11.180 really positive. I love it. By the next thing you did, you 87 00:06:11.259 --> 00:06:15.660 were still early in your first ninety days. The second thing you did was 88 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:19.490 use the product. What were you looking for, as you're diving deep into 89 00:06:19.529 --> 00:06:24.449 the product yourself? Yeah, well, I wanted to understand two things. 90 00:06:24.529 --> 00:06:28.689 On the consumer side, I wanted to understand why people were using the product. 91 00:06:28.689 --> 00:06:30.329 I mean, it's great to know who is using it, but I 92 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:33.720 also need to understand the why behind it so that, you know, I 93 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:40.199 can attract more customers with a right story. So I really wanted to see 94 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.000 how it feels for myself and I could use the APP. You know, 95 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.040 I could go out to lunch and pay with that APP very close to the 96 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.870 office where we were located. So I had to do that from, you 97 00:06:48.910 --> 00:06:53.269 know, marketing perspective. I also wanted to see what the onboarding looks like. 98 00:06:53.470 --> 00:06:56.550 I wanted to make sure that, you know, the story that we 99 00:06:56.629 --> 00:07:00.949 were telling throughout the on boarding process was right. And the business side, 100 00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:04.060 I wanted to make sure that it was really easy, that, you know, 101 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:08.459 if I could understand what to do, and I'm not even a business 102 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:12.220 owners, I'm pretty sure business owners would get it, but if I didn't 103 00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:15.060 get it, then we had a huge problem. So I just wanted to 104 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:18.009 make sure you know, since the only people working on a product before work 105 00:07:18.089 --> 00:07:21.930 the product team, that I kind of give them the perspective from, you 106 00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:27.290 know, from my marketing experience. Yeah, yeah, and I was talking 107 00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:31.199 to Belal but trowy on the sales series of this show a few weeks ago 108 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.959 and he was saying it's just so powerful, you know, when you look 109 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:42.480 at the product through the lens of your customers as opposed to through the lens 110 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:45.990 of your product team, who they know all the nuances, they know why 111 00:07:46.110 --> 00:07:49.149 they built the certain things, like the different features that they've, you know, 112 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:53.350 integrated into the product. But when you start to look at it through 113 00:07:53.350 --> 00:07:57.790 the lens of your customer, it just helps you have so much more empathy 114 00:07:58.230 --> 00:08:01.620 for for everything else you're doing on the marketing side. So that makes so 115 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:05.660 much sense. This next one that you you talked about that. You did 116 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:09.540 in your first ninety days and you alluded to it earlier. We should talk 117 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:13.769 to customers, you said your first three weeks at Kolu you wanted to identify 118 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:18.050 the real customer profile. So is this above and beyond what you did with 119 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:20.850 that survey? You actually like got on the phone and talk to customers? 120 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:26.050 Yeah, the survey was just to kind of get a general understanding, you 121 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:31.480 know, age brackets, male or female, see if there's any you know, 122 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.720 common denominator there. But I then had to actually understand. Okay, 123 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.159 why? And this was one of the weirdest experience I had to go through. 124 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:46.870 I got married pretty early, so I didn't really get to do any 125 00:08:46.149 --> 00:08:50.309 like blind dating and stuff like that, and I had to pick up the 126 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:54.870 phone and call complete strangers, set up a meeting in a starbucks or something, 127 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:56.460 because I can bring them to the office. It was tiny, we 128 00:08:56.580 --> 00:09:01.899 had absolutely no space there, and then try and understand who they were and 129 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.259 like, as you know, sent text like what are you worrying it was 130 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:11.529 so awkward. But I have to tell you, the best insights came from 131 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:16.730 those discussions because when you meet people in person they are so open, they 132 00:09:16.889 --> 00:09:20.889 share so much and, you know, especially if the conversation kind of flows 133 00:09:20.929 --> 00:09:26.000 beyond like ten or fifteen minutes, you get to understand the real, you 134 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.799 know, the real story behind why they're using their product, why they love 135 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.440 it. And, you know what, I actually contacted customers who stopped using 136 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.360 the APP because I wanted to know why they didn't like us. That was 137 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.629 also really important because if I could figure out, you know, why people 138 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.750 were staying away, I can use, you know, messaging and what we're 139 00:09:45.789 --> 00:09:48.909 doing in marketing to make sure that I answer their questions, that I kind 140 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:54.539 of alleviate their fears and, you know, help them get what they need 141 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.179 out of that APP. Got It. So we're so you were looking to 142 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:01.580 reach out to people that were using your product. A lot folks ahead recently 143 00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:05.059 stopped using the product with it. was there anything else you were looking at 144 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:07.929 when you're trying to determine men who do I want to reach out to do 145 00:10:09.169 --> 00:10:16.009 these customer interviews with? Initially, those were the main things we focused on. 146 00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:20.570 I would say that later on, when we did something similar with the 147 00:10:20.009 --> 00:10:28.039 SMB customers, we actually had to segment them based on different value propositions because 148 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.080 early on, you know, we were working with anyone who would just pay. 149 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.830 We were spraying and praying, but at some point we realize we have 150 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:39.590 to focus, we have to work with businesses where, you know, our 151 00:10:39.669 --> 00:10:43.950 investment in sales is actually going to have a positive Roy and when we did 152 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:48.230 that, you know, we actually had to talk to them and understand why 153 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:52.139 some businesses we're seeing a lot of value and other businesses were not. So 154 00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:56.899 it just started with a very broad base and then we were able to narrow 155 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.820 down and find the right businesses for us and the ones that we were able 156 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.129 to give the most value tobe. Wonderful. All Right, Maya this this 157 00:11:05.409 --> 00:11:09.730 fourth thing that you did in your first ninety days. You said that you 158 00:11:09.090 --> 00:11:13.289 looked at data because you knew the numbers would tell you which stage of the 159 00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:18.049 funnel you should be focusing on. What's the story behind this? Yeah, 160 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:20.840 so I think one of the things you need to think about when you join 161 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.720 an early age state startup is that you're probably going to have to throw away 162 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.120 the playbook. No matter what you thought. You knew it's going to be 163 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:35.470 different for every company, for every industry, and in this case, you 164 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.629 know, I really had to try and understand where we had the biggest problems 165 00:11:41.149 --> 00:11:45.429 because we did have customers at the time, but we had we didn't have 166 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:50.019 a huge problem in actually acquiring those customers. Word of mouth worked really well 167 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:54.980 for us, but then after they were on boarded, they weren't using the 168 00:11:56.059 --> 00:12:01.340 APP. So our problem was actually with activation, and you can't know that 169 00:12:01.649 --> 00:12:03.009 before you look at the data, because if you look just like at the 170 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:05.850 high level numbers, like hey, we have a ton of customers, that's 171 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:13.129 great, but if nothing happens after they actually get on boarded, then you're 172 00:12:13.129 --> 00:12:16.960 missing an opportunity and for us we were missing around revenue because we were only 173 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:22.759 making money when people were using the APP to make financial transactions. So activation 174 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.519 was actually the most important part. So I didn't think about social media, 175 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.029 I didn't think about advertising, I didn't think about dimension. I had to 176 00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:33.470 fix a leak luck at first. I had to make sure that customers who 177 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:39.070 are onboarded actually stay, and it was actually a pretty simple fix, I 178 00:12:39.149 --> 00:12:43.379 guess. I just introduce marketing automation and made sure that I segmented the customers 179 00:12:43.419 --> 00:12:48.779 in a way that they got different messages based on the actions they did within 180 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.740 the APP, and every email encourages them to take the next step and we 181 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:58.570 were able to drive activation from like five percent to twenty five percent within three 182 00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:05.009 months. That's too credible. Where those kind of really tactical, kind of 183 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.169 short emails that you injected in there? Did you do video, like what 184 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.919 did you find that there was a particular type of content that worked worked well 185 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:18.039 in that particular case? Yeah, so what I ended up doing is actually 186 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.559 mapping out the entire journey and making sure that I take into account every possible 187 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.590 scenario, because we had like four different steps you had to go through in 188 00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:31.269 order to become a successful customer. and honestly, at the beginning it was 189 00:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.070 email. It was probably crappy email and as we kind of, you know, 190 00:13:35.149 --> 00:13:39.629 moved along, I just looked at the numbers and saw what was working 191 00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:43.139 what was not working and just played with it and iterated it until we found 192 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.419 something that works. I think like for the first couple of months I probably 193 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:52.059 changed the email sequence every two weeks. Well, what did it? That's 194 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.970 it. That's interesting that you you said you guys define what a successful customer 195 00:13:56.129 --> 00:14:00.850 looked like. We're looking in our own business and trying to figure out what 196 00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:05.970 are this success milestones of our customers, because if we're not mapping toward getting 197 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.970 them somewhere, then what are we really doing? What did that look like 198 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.360 at Colo? Yeah, so, looking from the outside, people may assume 199 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.360 that, okay, if someone downloaded the APP, you know you got a 200 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.919 customer, but that's not the case. And it wasn't even using the APP 201 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.190 the first time, because you had to put in your credit card. There 202 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:28.110 was this whole on boarding process you had to go through. For us, 203 00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:31.629 it was someone who made more than two purchases, which means he was a 204 00:14:31.750 --> 00:14:37.149 repeating customer. Got It okay, and so every everything you're doing in those 205 00:14:37.190 --> 00:14:41.539 email sequences that I'm sure that's shaping things that you're building in the product itself, 206 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:46.539 is mapping to getting getting them to doing that second train. Yeah, 207 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:50.179 a hundred percent. That was the main goal. And even after that we 208 00:14:50.299 --> 00:14:54.210 kept trekking, you know, their retention. But what we saw from the 209 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.250 data very early is that anyone who makes more than two purchases where more than 210 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.490 fifty percent likely to continue using the APP. So that was our breaking point. 211 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:05.970 This is how we decided, you know, to purchases. That's that's 212 00:15:07.049 --> 00:15:09.759 the sweet spot. Makes Sense. This next one that you said you did 213 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:15.000 in this first ninety days was to learn the industry and you use get to 214 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.919 do this. Why was this so important and how did you go about doing 215 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.870 it? Yeah, so, I don't know how familiar you are with the 216 00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:26.990 mobile payment industry, but it is crowded and it was. It was prouded 217 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:31.629 even a few years ago when I when I joined Kolu, and everyone were 218 00:15:31.669 --> 00:15:35.940 saying the exact same thing, to the point where I created a list of 219 00:15:35.019 --> 00:15:41.460 the hundred top mobile payment APPS and I only took the slogans from their website 220 00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:45.860 and then I removed the names of the companies and no one, no one 221 00:15:46.019 --> 00:15:48.580 was able to guess who who. It was just terrible. It was exactly 222 00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:52.009 the same and I needed to know that because I wanted to be able to 223 00:15:52.169 --> 00:15:58.690 find a way to the French et in a very crowded industry. And so 224 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:02.929 the next thing you talked about here is, you know, the five things 225 00:16:02.929 --> 00:16:04.720 you need to figure out to get started, and I think that the the 226 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:10.679 incie that you gained and the just documenting what are the taglines of are of 227 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:15.200 the hundred top players in the space, learning that from Gtwo the five things 228 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.669 that you said you that you have to figure out to get started. What 229 00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:22.190 do you do? So you have to understand the product, who do you 230 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.830 do it for, why the customers buy your product, what isn't working and 231 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.309 what is your long term goal? So I would imagine that kind of the 232 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:36.700 combination of those five things ended up producing the unique messaging. And I am 233 00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:38.860 I right there. Yeah, and look, in general, this is what 234 00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:42.299 you do when you do marketing. If even if you leave marketing for a 235 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:47.250 bigger or gun organization, this is going to be the approach. At least 236 00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:49.570 you know. This is how I approach marketing. But with a start up 237 00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:53.009 first you need to do this very quickly. You don't have a few months 238 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:56.529 to do this. You need to get this done with into the first two 239 00:16:56.570 --> 00:17:00.690 weeks, otherwise it going to get in trouble and you want to identify quick 240 00:17:00.730 --> 00:17:03.079 wins. So you don't have time to build a six month strategy. You 241 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.480 need to figure out what can I do in the next two weeks that will 242 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.640 make a difference and will have an impact on the company. So I think 243 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.440 you know, just getting that right and also understanding that with an early stage 244 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.829 start up you don't need to nail the story. You need a story, 245 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:22.430 you need to as something. You just need to put something out there so 246 00:17:22.589 --> 00:17:26.390 you can get feedback. I can guarantee it's going to change at least five 247 00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:30.900 times by the time you actually get to product market fit and you know exactly 248 00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:34.259 who you are, and even then it's probably going to change the more. 249 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.940 I love that. You don't need to nail the story, you just need 250 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:44.329 a story. What ended up being the story that that you're able to tell 251 00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:48.250 in those first couple weeks at Coolo. So for Colon, we had a 252 00:17:48.329 --> 00:17:51.730 very unique mission. So we were working with mom and pop shops. We 253 00:17:51.809 --> 00:17:56.170 didn't have any of the big corporations on the APP. It was kind of 254 00:17:56.289 --> 00:18:00.200 our way to give back to small businesses and keep the economy, especially small, 255 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.920 you know, cities, flourishing. We wanted to make sure that people 256 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:08.559 buy locally. So that was actually our story and we were encouraging people to 257 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.839 support small businesses. I mean on the back end of it, when we 258 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:15.990 had to acquire customers, yes, we did tell them it's going to be 259 00:18:15.029 --> 00:18:19.309 easy, it's going to be convenient, but the overarching story and what worked 260 00:18:19.430 --> 00:18:25.789 we really, really well. We with SMB's is we were actually supporting them. 261 00:18:25.829 --> 00:18:29.460 We were their secret weapon. Against the Amazons of the world, because 262 00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:33.539 we were giving them a competitive advantage of that, and and so did, 263 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:38.819 I would imagine, the story that you guys, you know, coming up 264 00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:42.450 with that story quickly. It flows into your next point here, which is, 265 00:18:44.009 --> 00:18:45.769 you know, you need to have an infrastructure that allows you to be 266 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:51.130 flexible and Agele so. So knowing, Hey, we're going to we're going 267 00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:53.250 to go to market with a story. We don't necessarily to nail it. 268 00:18:53.849 --> 00:18:56.799 Then we've got to have a culture of knowing that we've got a rapidly iterate 269 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:04.359 and move quickly because we're we're going to adjust the story as we see the 270 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.880 risk. You know how our customers are responding to it. Can you kind 271 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.869 of walk us through maybe how the story evolved over time? Yeah, so 272 00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:18.950 when I first join, the focus was actually a lot more on discovering small 273 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:23.740 businesses, but that didn't really convey the story of payment, which was the 274 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.099 you know, the main benefit, and it took out. It took a 275 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:32.579 while to shape it into the right messaging. It wasn't just support small businesses. 276 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:37.539 A lot of other companies were saying that, but we actually looked at 277 00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:44.130 how it affects cities and how it is actually supporting the economy as a whole. 278 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:49.049 And about a year later the company actually started working directly with municipalities, 279 00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:55.160 where the story changed completely because now we were working with the municipalities to get 280 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.359 access to an entire city at once. So we became a different kind of 281 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.039 partner. So it was actually a really exciting transformation going from working with SMB's 282 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.069 to working with a customer that's more enterprise like, and we had to do 283 00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:11.269 it city by city, which was very challenging, I had to say. 284 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:18.869 Imagine all imagine, and you talked earlier by about finding quick wins. How 285 00:20:18.950 --> 00:20:22.859 do you identify and nail down what like is at every two weeks you're doing 286 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:27.339 that like and what's your process for identifying what that quick win is that you 287 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:30.859 have your eyes set on next? So for me it started with a data 288 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.250 because I did not have enough information to know what's working and what's not working, 289 00:20:36.329 --> 00:20:41.730 and especially identifying that leaky bucket of customers who were on boarded and we're 290 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:45.329 not able to actually use the APP. So I think first and firm foremost, 291 00:20:45.369 --> 00:20:49.079 you have to look at the data. Talking to other people that also 292 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:55.440 really help to understand where they're they had like small challenges. The sales team, 293 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.279 for example, they didn't really have any sales enablement. So they immediately 294 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.599 told me that was what they needed. And you know, from my perspective 295 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.509 I probably wouldn't have assumed that's the main priority. But when I realize, 296 00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:11.269 hey, they have nothing, it became very clear that we have to start 297 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:15.309 working on something. So just talking to people, looking at the data and 298 00:21:15.549 --> 00:21:18.220 it was more important early on, I would have to say, and I 299 00:21:18.339 --> 00:21:23.180 also this is, I think, a huge advantage when you just join a 300 00:21:23.259 --> 00:21:27.140 company. You don't have any biases, like you have a clean slate, 301 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:32.579 just like you mentioned before about the product. So you have an opportunity to 302 00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:37.650 identify problems because to you everything is news, so you can figure out something 303 00:21:37.769 --> 00:21:41.289 is not working well, while other people who maybe doing it for a while, 304 00:21:41.289 --> 00:21:42.809 they just can't see it, they're blind to it. So I think 305 00:21:42.849 --> 00:21:48.680 the first couple of weeks are actually the best time to identify those problems and 306 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.319 I think later on, I mean I always find problems to fix. I 307 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.920 just have this mindset where I constantly, you know, try to make sure 308 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.759 things work more efficiently. So if something bugs me, I'm going to fix 309 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.390 it. But yeah, you probably have a cadence of like once the months 310 00:22:03.509 --> 00:22:07.509 trying to figure out, okay, how can I make things more effective, 311 00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:11.309 how can I make my team more productive, or just something really really bugs 312 00:22:11.349 --> 00:22:15.230 me that I can't sleep at night, and that way I know, okay, 313 00:22:15.230 --> 00:22:18.019 I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning and figure it out. Yeah, 314 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.660 we've started recently this year using a system called four by fours with our leadership 315 00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:26.819 team, and so we each pick, for high level, things that we're 316 00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:32.009 going to focus on for the next four weeks and by giving putting some kind 317 00:22:32.009 --> 00:22:36.730 of time bound parameters around things that you need to focus on actually forces you 318 00:22:36.769 --> 00:22:41.130 to focus. And then any new ideas that we have throughout the month they 319 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:45.599 get tossed over into the possible goals list. So we don't lose good ideas, 320 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.359 but we actually focus and are getting so much more done. So and 321 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.559 that that's the system we've used. I'm sure there are tons of different systems 322 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.400 like that that you can use, but I really appreciate you share in this. 323 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.910 You've shared nine things that you could do in your first ninety days. 324 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.910 Is a BP of marketing and an early stage start up, but you've also 325 00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:08.190 got some insight around you know, maybe you're not an early saves start up, 326 00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:15.619 maybe you're at a larger company and you've got some notes here on what 327 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.980 you need to do at a big company versus at a startup. So you 328 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:22.900 the the comparison is really cool, so I wanted to share it here. 329 00:23:22.940 --> 00:23:26.299 You said at a big company you need to take the time to go deep, 330 00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:29.970 versus at a startup you need to, you know, stay high level 331 00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:33.529 with your knowledge. Talk to talk to us about that. Yeah, I 332 00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:37.089 think well, obviously it depends on the company. Maybe you join a business 333 00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:41.440 unit that is fairly new, but if you're joining a company and the product 334 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.519 has been around for a while and they kind of know what they're doing, 335 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.519 you're going to need to do more of the same. So your goal should 336 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.599 be to get to know the company, get to know the product really well, 337 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.960 which is why you need to go deep. With a smaller company, 338 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:59.549 no one knows anything. Everything changes every day, so you need high level 339 00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:03.069 knowledge of the industry and what the company is doing, but you need to 340 00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:07.470 be prepared to change that every single day, so you don't want to get 341 00:24:07.470 --> 00:24:10.980 too attached. Yeah, so you also said that at a big company you've 342 00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:14.180 got to be thinking about the long term strategy, so doing more of what 343 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:17.460 works, which goes along with what you just said, and at a startup 344 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:18.859 you're looking at short term strategy, so you have to be able to do 345 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:23.410 a lot of things to find out what works you. You also talked about 346 00:24:23.450 --> 00:24:26.769 how at a big company you have to be able to create the most efficient 347 00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:30.930 text act, where to start up you're using free tools. They save you 348 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:34.450 time. You want to talk about either one of these is a strategy piece 349 00:24:34.529 --> 00:24:40.119 and around text act. Yeah, of course so. I mean even at 350 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:44.279 a startup, at some point you will have a strategy for the longer term, 351 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.000 but it changes so often that it's very hard to commit. And with 352 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.230 a bigger company it's okay to do more of what works, but you definitely 353 00:24:52.269 --> 00:24:56.710 want to have some room for innovation. So it's just like an eighty twenty, 354 00:24:56.829 --> 00:25:02.029 but the eight and twenty is exactly the opposite for for a smaller company 355 00:25:02.069 --> 00:25:04.869 and a bearer company. And I think when it comes to creating your tax 356 00:25:06.029 --> 00:25:10.180 deck, some companies, even early on, you don't feel very comfortable making 357 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:12.339 a commitment, especially you know, if you've done this before and you know 358 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:15.619 what works for you. Like I have specific tools. I like that's great, 359 00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:19.619 but I'm going to be very honest. My budget early on was non 360 00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:25.250 existent, so I couldn't afford to spend, you know, time and money 361 00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:29.609 researching and finding, you know, more expensive tools. I had to use 362 00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:33.369 Google forms and mail chimp, at least the free version, until we kind 363 00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:37.240 of outgrew that. But, and that's perfectly fine. I mean you just 364 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.440 need to do what you can with what you have. By the way, 365 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.680 a huge advantage is that usually no one really cares about compliance and you don't 366 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.190 have to go through legal for everything, at least until you get caught. 367 00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:56.029 So it just makes things move a lot faster. And yet at some point, 368 00:25:56.109 --> 00:26:00.269 when you're big enough, you're going to want to have, you know, 369 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:03.789 a better process, you want to have more tools in place. But, 370 00:26:03.109 --> 00:26:07.099 you know, tools are are as good as what you're doing and if 371 00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:10.059 you don't know what you're doing yet, tools are not going to solve your 372 00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:14.380 problem. Yeah, you alluded to this next one earlier in the interview, 373 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:17.019 but you know, you said it. A big company you need to be 374 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:21.089 able to design the perfect narrative, brand website, but in a startup you're 375 00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.970 coming up with a narrative that you can test, know that you're going to 376 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:29.250 change it soon, which is what you're talking about earlier, rapidly iterating based 377 00:26:29.289 --> 00:26:33.599 on feedback that you're getting from customers so that you can land on the story 378 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.559 that actually does resonate and so that you can be flexible to be able to 379 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.880 change the story. So, like you guys, going after municipalities as opposed 380 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.880 to the individual SANB's. So the next one was at a big company. 381 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:51.150 You have to consider paid promotions where start at a startup, you're looking at 382 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:55.269 using or product led growth strategies. Talk to us about those two things. 383 00:26:55.309 --> 00:26:57.269 You already talked about the first one a little bit around the narrative, but 384 00:26:57.430 --> 00:27:02.779 I'm really interested in kind of the difference here and using paid promotions at big 385 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:07.180 companies versus product like growth strategies at startups. Yeah, it all goes back 386 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:12.059 to not having a budget, but also you don't want to be spending money 387 00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:15.730 if you don't know what works, especially not a lot of money. And 388 00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:19.769 again, if you're in a bigger company an established product, you may already 389 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:23.450 know what works and you know what channels you know are the best for you 390 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:29.089 and you can obviously optimize the copy, but you're going to have the resources 391 00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:33.880 you need. Working for a really small company, you probably don't have, 392 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.759 you know, the luxury of spending money on advertising. And again, also 393 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.559 advertising is like, you know, putting gas on a fire. If it 394 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.950 if it's already there, it will help increase it. If it's not there, 395 00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:48.750 it makes absolutely no sense. So if you don't know what works, 396 00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:53.269 you know you can pour more money into it. And also, I think 397 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.740 early on, especially when you're trying to find product market fit, there's a 398 00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:03.099 lot of work to do on the product itself. People sometimes, you know, 399 00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:07.859 under utilize the product as a way to create, you know, activation. 400 00:28:07.059 --> 00:28:14.490 We actually ended up creating a referral program that became the number one driver 401 00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:18.730 for new customers. I think we were driving thirty percent of new customers through 402 00:28:19.450 --> 00:28:26.049 referrals and it's only because we were able to make a connection between what customers 403 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:30.599 wanted and what they cared about and what we were able to offer them through 404 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.400 the APP and for them they felt really good when they made it purchase. 405 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.519 With a small business. We won't we were also sending them like a push 406 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:41.430 of tification, saying, like your local superhero, you just help the small 407 00:28:41.509 --> 00:28:45.990 business. It makes you feel good and people wanted to share that and because 408 00:28:45.990 --> 00:28:51.509 they wanted to share it, you know, they referred more people and and 409 00:28:51.670 --> 00:28:56.420 we kind of had that that fly will effect was really successful, but only 410 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.019 after we figured this one out and we figured out what works. This is 411 00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:03.859 when we started thinking about, okay, now we need to scale this even 412 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.220 faster. If we keep it just to you know, word of mouth, 413 00:29:07.700 --> 00:29:08.660 it's going to it's going to be fine. We're going to grow, but 414 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.650 we're going to grow slowly. If you want to make it faster, now 415 00:29:11.769 --> 00:29:15.170 we can pour some money into it. All right, my this last word 416 00:29:15.289 --> 00:29:18.009 to talk about is, you know, a big company you've got to put 417 00:29:18.089 --> 00:29:21.930 processes in place, but it is start up. You just have to get 418 00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:25.359 stuff done. I think this one is pretty straightforward, but as we're closing 419 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:26.799 out the air, you talked to us about this one. Yeah, I 420 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:32.079 mean I think that's the number one thing you need to learn about startups. 421 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:36.799 You need to get things done. It doesn't matter if they're perfect. This 422 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:41.190 is where the whole philosophy around done is better than perfect comes in, and 423 00:29:41.309 --> 00:29:45.190 it's absolutely true. You have to get things out so you can get feedback. 424 00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:48.950 So it doesn't have to be perfect. You just need to make it 425 00:29:48.990 --> 00:29:52.299 happen. When you work for a bigger company where you have an established brand, 426 00:29:52.420 --> 00:29:56.099 you have to be more careful because you know millions of people maybe exposed 427 00:29:56.140 --> 00:30:00.500 to what you're doing and you know you don't want to insult anyone. You 428 00:30:00.579 --> 00:30:03.259 don't want to make big mistakes. So you have to be a lot more 429 00:30:03.339 --> 00:30:07.769 careful and you need to have those processes in place, including legal that we've 430 00:30:07.769 --> 00:30:11.130 mentioned before. But you have a lot more leeway when you don't have a 431 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:15.650 huge audience yet and you don't have they don't have a perception of your brand 432 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:18.809 yet. So it's malleable and you can play with it and you can get 433 00:30:18.890 --> 00:30:22.359 more feedback until you figure out, you know, what actually works. My 434 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:27.519 this has been incredible. Thank you so much for sharing these these first these 435 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:32.440 nine things that you can do as a VP of marketing in your in your 436 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:36.509 first ninety days, but then also kind of going back and forth on what 437 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:38.670 you need to be focused on. It a big company versus of start up, 438 00:30:38.670 --> 00:30:41.269 because I know we've got people listening to this that are at both of 439 00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:45.829 those types of so this both both components of this interview. I think you're 440 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:48.829 going to be Super Helpful for folks. How can folks listening to this they 441 00:30:48.869 --> 00:30:53.099 connected with you? Yeah, you can definitely reach out on Linkedin or go 442 00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:59.259 to my grossmandcom. You can read a little bit about my upcoming book and, 443 00:30:59.859 --> 00:31:02.660 yeah, and just you know, come and say hi on Linkedin. 444 00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:06.210 I'm always happy to help. Love it. What is your upcoming book about? 445 00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:11.329 So the book is called invaluable and it is for employees who want to 446 00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:15.210 be able to deliver exceptional results. I basically took fifteen years of experience and 447 00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:19.039 turn it into a step by step died on how to be great at your 448 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.160 job. I love it. My thank you so much for your time today. 449 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.960 This has been incredible. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. 450 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:33.509 I really enjoyed it. Hey, everybody, logan with sweet fish here. 451 00:31:33.829 --> 00:31:37.150 If you're a regular listener of BB growth, you know that I'm one 452 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:40.349 of the cohost of the show, but you may not know that I also 453 00:31:40.430 --> 00:31:42.509 head up the sales team here, is sweetish. So for those of you 454 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:47.259 in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something 455 00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:51.700 that's made us in sanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead 456 00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:55.700 Iq for the past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering 457 00:31:55.819 --> 00:32:00.500 contact data now takes us only one, or seventy five percent more efficient. 458 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:06.369 We're able to move faster withoutbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier 459 00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:09.289 than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead Iq as well. 460 00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:16.039 You can check them out at lead iqcom. That's Elle a d iqcom. 461 00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.079 Are you on Linkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on linked 462 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.200 it. Here, as we fish, we've gone all in on the platform. 463 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.630 Multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny 464 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.069 gift for me, other times it's a micro video or a slide deck. 465 00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:37.869 Then sometimes it's just a regular old status update that shares their unique point of 466 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:44.069 view on BB marketing leadership or their job function. We're posting this content through 467 00:32:44.069 --> 00:32:47.539 their personal profile, not our company page, and it would warm my heart 468 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:52.059 and soul if you connected with each of our evangelists. will be adding more 469 00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:57.220 down the road, but from now you should connect with will read our coo, 470 00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:01.130 Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, Dan Sanchez, our director of audience 471 00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:06.529 growth, Logan Lyles are director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry, 472 00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:09.170 we are having a whole lot of fun on Linkedin pretty much every single day, 473 00:33:09.529 --> 00:33:10.849 and we'd love for you to be a part of it.