1266: Mistakes to Avoid When Shifting to Virtual Events w/ Gavin Finn

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:07.389 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:07.750 --> 00:00:12.109 Today I'm joined by Gavin Finn. He's the president and CEO over at Kon 3 00:00:12.269 --> 00:00:15.029 Interactive. Gavin, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you 4 00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:17.789 again. Thank you, Logan. It's terrific to be back with you. 5 00:00:18.510 --> 00:00:24.219 Absolutely. Gavin was our guest back on episode six and twelve about telling complex 6 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:27.820 stories in a visual way. Will definitely link to that in the show notes 7 00:00:27.859 --> 00:00:31.420 so you can get even more good stuff from Gavin today. Today we're going 8 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:37.490 to be talking about digital transformation and specifically taking your offline events to virtual and 9 00:00:37.609 --> 00:00:42.810 how do you really create customer engagement in new ways that some of us are 10 00:00:42.850 --> 00:00:46.369 being forced to do right now in new channels that we're not used to? 11 00:00:46.770 --> 00:00:49.850 Gavin, before we jump into the topic today, though, can you give 12 00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:53.520 listeners a little background on yourself and what you and the Keon Interactive team or 13 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.320 up to these days? I'd be happy to. Thanks, Logan. We, 14 00:00:56.920 --> 00:01:00.759 as you know from our previous engagement, we are a B Tob Technology 15 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:07.950 Company. We build interactive sales and marketing software applications that are all designed to 16 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:14.989 transform the way that companies engage with their customers, and our customer base are 17 00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:19.659 usually very large globe will be to be companies who have complex solutions. They 18 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:25.379 provide complex products, physical products, digital products, services to those kinds of 19 00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:30.579 things, and really the motivator for companies to use these kinds of solutions in 20 00:01:30.739 --> 00:01:36.489 their sales and marketing activities are that, you know, when you have very 21 00:01:36.569 --> 00:01:42.890 large, globally distributed multi tiered sales and marketing channels, they tend to be 22 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:49.200 very inconsistent in the effectiveness around telling their customer stories, their product and solution 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:56.319 value differentiators. And so what ends up happening and actually serious reported the number 24 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:01.030 one reason that be to be companies loose sales that they should win is their 25 00:02:01.109 --> 00:02:07.629 inability to consistently articulate their value differentiators. So that's really the problem that we 26 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:13.469 help to address. And the reason that this is important is because traditional cells, 27 00:02:13.509 --> 00:02:17.379 are marketing tools like presentations or brochures, tend to be very passive. 28 00:02:17.379 --> 00:02:22.539 Right, I present to you. Use that there and listen and it's there's 29 00:02:22.620 --> 00:02:28.219 no real customer engagement. So what ends up happening is their audience tends to 30 00:02:28.300 --> 00:02:34.009 be less likely to remember the key points because of that engagement, lack of 31 00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:39.689 engagement in those passive environments. So the ability to demonstrate complex products and to 32 00:02:39.770 --> 00:02:46.199 get customers engaged in a digital, visually interactive way is really critical for B 33 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:52.319 tob companies if they're going to create a consistent, simply effective way for customers 34 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:55.719 to understand their real value. Yeah, absolutely. One of the terms that 35 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:00.909 you guys talk about a lot publicly and within your team, Gavin, I 36 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:05.110 know, is digital transformation and it seems like it's been a buzz word for 37 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.870 a while, both in sales and marketing on the IT side of the house. 38 00:03:08.389 --> 00:03:12.270 Tell us a little bit about some of the trends that you're seeing there 39 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:16.020 at specifically as it relates to sales and marketing, especially with teams being pushed 40 00:03:16.099 --> 00:03:22.939 to fully remote right now and having more than a wrench thrown into a lot 41 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:25.060 of their sales and marketing plans. I mean, I think on just a 42 00:03:25.180 --> 00:03:30.050 recent episode we were talking about the fact that, you know, marketings editorial 43 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:34.849 calendar got thrown out the window. That was set in polished in everything January 44 00:03:34.930 --> 00:03:38.490 one. What are some of the trends you're seeing right now amongst your customers, 45 00:03:38.530 --> 00:03:40.009 Gavin? Well, that's an interesting point you made. I think the 46 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:46.319 the least useful purchase of two thousand and nineteen was a two thousand and twenty 47 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.599 planner, right. So all of these plans have sort of gone out the 48 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.599 window, whether it's marketing or sales. I think all of that's been really 49 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:59.110 changed in a dramatic and unexpected way. To answer your question about digital transformation, 50 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:00.909 I'd like to just define things a little bit. A lot of people 51 00:04:01.349 --> 00:04:08.550 think about creating digital assets and digital processes and they talk about that as digital 52 00:04:08.590 --> 00:04:13.780 transformation. It's about taking an analog process and creating a digital version of that 53 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:17.699 process, and that's really not digital transformation. That's what we call digitalization, 54 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:23.819 right. So you take an existing process, you do your forms online and 55 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:28.050 you kind of follow the same methodology. Right. That's really what people do 56 00:04:28.089 --> 00:04:32.009 when they digitize a process, and actually that has been the predominant theme for 57 00:04:32.129 --> 00:04:36.410 a long time for people in sales and marketing, is to take their offline 58 00:04:36.610 --> 00:04:43.519 processes and documents and assets and just move them online. Digital transformation is actually 59 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.360 a very different experience because what we really doing is you're taking advantage or the 60 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:53.110 fact that you have a digital environment and you're actually updating and changing the way 61 00:04:53.269 --> 00:04:59.029 you do things because you're now have this new capability of these different technologies that 62 00:04:59.149 --> 00:05:02.949 facilitate something new, and I think that's been a lot harder for organizations to 63 00:05:03.069 --> 00:05:06.939 really adopt and understand, because the easy thing to do is to take a 64 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:13.540 brochure and make a pdf out of it, right or to take an event 65 00:05:13.579 --> 00:05:17.939 and make a video stream out of that same event, instead of thinking about 66 00:05:18.220 --> 00:05:23.810 what are the capabilities of this digital world and how can we make a customer 67 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:28.490 experience better? So really, when you think about what marketers have been doing 68 00:05:28.769 --> 00:05:32.329 from a digital perspective, it's really being all about analytics, it's been about 69 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:41.959 creating customer data segmentation, it's been around nurturing campaigns and those kinds of activities. 70 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:46.160 The digital marketing stack is what people have really been calling it. But 71 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.189 what the part that's really didn't left off is the customer engagement part, and 72 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:55.829 that's really where there's a tremendous opportunity to transform the way things work. This 73 00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:00.230 new situation that we're in, this crisis, as unpleasant as it is, 74 00:06:00.589 --> 00:06:03.459 and it really is for everybody, is really an opportunity for us to think 75 00:06:03.459 --> 00:06:09.220 about how we can actually change the way we do things because we are physically 76 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:12.699 unable to do them the same way as we were in the pad. Yeah, 77 00:06:12.819 --> 00:06:17.060 yeah, absolutely. Hey, everybody logan with sweet fish here. You 78 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:21.449 probably already know that we think you should start a podcast if you haven't already. 79 00:06:21.730 --> 00:06:26.250 But what if you have and you're asking these kinds of questions? How 80 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:30.050 much has our podcast impacted revenue this year? How is our sales team actually 81 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:34.759 leveraging the PODCAST content? 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All right, let's get back to the show. 89 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:21.290 So you mentioned something they're Gavin I want to dig into specifically for marketers. 90 00:07:21.370 --> 00:07:28.209 You mentioned the difference between digitalization and digital transformation. Kind of okay, this 91 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:31.240 is what we do antalog or in person or in the physical world, and 92 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.000 here's what we do digitally and just kind of mapping the same processes. Now 93 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:41.480 there's probably some value to trying to recreate that in person experience, but that 94 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:46.110 takes some more thought. And you mentioned an interesting topic that's come up in 95 00:07:46.189 --> 00:07:48.430 a lot of conversations, both here on the podcast and offline, that I'm 96 00:07:48.470 --> 00:07:53.149 having with be tob marketers, and that is taking their events and making them 97 00:07:53.189 --> 00:07:55.750 virtual. Now, if you're just listening to this I just did, are 98 00:07:55.790 --> 00:07:59.699 quotes around virtual, because I think we might be playing fast and loose with 99 00:07:59.819 --> 00:08:01.379 that a little bit. Gavin, can you talk to some of the the 100 00:08:01.819 --> 00:08:07.139 pitfalls that you see we're going virtual, going digital, namely with events where 101 00:08:07.339 --> 00:08:11.660 we might be missing the marks, so that listeners here could see some of 102 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:15.529 the pitfalls or the potholes in the road ahead of them and maybe a voidom 103 00:08:15.769 --> 00:08:20.170 yeah, it's really an interesting subject because it's had to happen so fast for 104 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:24.970 a lot of companies that they hasn't really been a tremendous amount of planning and 105 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:28.720 scenario mapping and those kinds of things that you normally would do if you were 106 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.480 going to go change something right, you would sit down and plan things out. 107 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:37.080 So the immediate knee jerk reaction for events. And if you think about 108 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.669 a marketing budget, the number one line item in most be tob companies marketing 109 00:08:41.710 --> 00:08:45.230 budget is events. Right, it's trade shows, it's conferences, it's customer 110 00:08:45.309 --> 00:08:52.830 events, because they typically are the large single item expense in any quarter or 111 00:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.019 in any you know, planning cycle. So two things have happened. One, 112 00:08:56.059 --> 00:09:01.259 they're not spending those money, that that budget on the event itself. 113 00:09:01.700 --> 00:09:03.620 So in one way they saying, well, we have all this money, 114 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:05.580 that's part of our budget. Now what do we do with it? Unfortunately, 115 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.610 CEOS have taken care of that pretty quickly in some rebudgeting. But realistically 116 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:18.250 the question is how do we accomplish the same things or more in a different 117 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:20.529 way? So you really have to think about what is the reason we're having 118 00:09:20.570 --> 00:09:24.159 this event and then the other part of that is what is the reason that 119 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.000 the attendees come to the event? And I don't think people have been thinking 120 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.360 about the second question. They've been thinking about the first thing. So what 121 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.720 do we want to accomplish at the event? We want to launch this new 122 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.159 product that we want to show the breadth of our solutions. We want to 123 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.950 do all of those things, and so the entire focus of what we are 124 00:09:39.990 --> 00:09:43.389 seeing more than ninety percent of the companies we're talking to, has been to 125 00:09:43.509 --> 00:09:46.870 literally take what they we're going to do at the trade show and make it 126 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:50.750 a digital version of the same thing, to the extent, and in some 127 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:58.500 cases they are asking us to or doing in another environment, recreating the booth, 128 00:09:58.019 --> 00:10:01.580 the physical booths, in a digital way. Right, so let's create 129 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:03.460 this digital version of the booths and people can walk through the booths ring. 130 00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:07.850 And we see a number of problems with this. First of all, the 131 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.649 reason you have a booth is because you're in a physical space like a trade 132 00:10:11.690 --> 00:10:16.730 show hall, and you have a physically constrained environment. You have twenty by 133 00:10:16.809 --> 00:10:20.799 forty or even a larger space, and so you're building that experience, the 134 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.039 physical experience around those constraints, are within those constraints. But realistically, if 135 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.320 you said to somebody that say they sold equipment for labs or or if they 136 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.950 were in the in let's say the IT world, and they would provider of 137 00:10:35.990 --> 00:10:39.230 data center equipment, what you'd really want to do is take them into a 138 00:10:39.269 --> 00:10:41.750 data center or into a hospital or into a lab. What you're forced to 139 00:10:41.789 --> 00:10:46.549 do is to take them into a booth and then you create a pseudo version 140 00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:48.750 of a lab or a booth or an experience that somewhat resembles that in the 141 00:10:48.789 --> 00:10:52.779 booth. Now that we're in the digital world, what we really should be 142 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.779 doing is stepping back and saying the customer really would be better off if they 143 00:10:56.899 --> 00:11:01.179 experienced lap of the future or a data center of the future or a factory 144 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:05.529 of the future. So let's give it to them in the digital world instead 145 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:11.490 of recreating that limited experience that they got in the physical world in a web 146 00:11:11.570 --> 00:11:16.169 experience or even in a live virtual experience. Let's not limited to that. 147 00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:20.799 Let's give them the experience. It's going going to give them the best opportunity 148 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.720 to understand what value we provide. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I can 149 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.320 just think of kind of the maybe the worst example of doing this wrong would 150 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.159 be like, Hey, you have your trade show booth and maybe you have 151 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.549 this touch screen that has an interactive you know something, let's say you know 152 00:11:35.629 --> 00:11:41.070 your sell cybersecurity and it's an interactive map of your network or something. So 153 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:45.149 you recreate the booth so that digitally they go into the booth to then have 154 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.419 this digital experience. Just skip it, go to the digital experience and make 155 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:50.419 it better, because now you can, you know, push it out to 156 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:54.659 all sorts of devices. You're not limited to the size of the screen in 157 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:56.820 your booth. That sort of stuff. Is that kind of what you're getting 158 00:11:56.820 --> 00:11:58.820 at here, Gavin? That's exactly right. And you imagine if, instead 159 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:05.330 of having to interact with that, they said an interactive experience about a threat 160 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:09.730 profile or some sort of security method that you were looking at? What if 161 00:12:09.769 --> 00:12:13.210 you gave them the ability to dive in as if they were remember those magic 162 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:16.279 school bus stories where they would die? This is body and my kids love 163 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.919 that showed. They're watching the reboot and the old ones that my wife and 164 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.519 I used to watch. Yes, when they go small, right, and 165 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.960 then they go through the veins of the human if it's a biology episode, 166 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:30.000 or they in this case, maybe they go through the network cables or, 167 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:31.710 you know, through a firewall or something like that, in as in an 168 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:35.549 ID environment, right, and that's really what we'd like to be able to 169 00:12:35.590 --> 00:12:37.750 give them, is to say, let's experience a threat from the perspective of 170 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:43.070 that digital threat and also from the perspective of our firewall system and our security 171 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:46.740 of US and really we're constrained to do that in the physical world, but 172 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:50.059 we're not constrained at all in the digital world. So taking that same budget, 173 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.299 sometimes it's a little bit more, sometimes it's even less, and applying 174 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:58.129 it to those experiences ends up with a much more effective customer engagement. Right 175 00:12:58.129 --> 00:13:03.049 now you've got customers who really are interactive in the process, they're understanding better 176 00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:07.730 and they're not limited by that world. So the first mistake I think people 177 00:13:07.730 --> 00:13:13.000 are making is they're trying to recreate the physical experience ring. The second mistake 178 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.399 that they're making is that they're forgetting that the reason that people come to these 179 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:26.279 live events is to engage with other people. Realistically, you could get the 180 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:31.029 same information that you saw at a trade show. You could get that either 181 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:37.789 and a website or in some other web forum or NESSILF meeting. Absolutely go 182 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.139 to trade shows and they go to conferences to have that engagement, to get 183 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:43.419 out of the office now, of course they can't really get out of the 184 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:50.220 office now, but to have an encounter, a discussion that they would not 185 00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:54.700 otherwise be able to have. So when you're thinking about recreating your digital experience. 186 00:13:54.809 --> 00:13:58.090 You need to be thinking about it from the those two perspectives. How 187 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:03.370 can we create the right customer experience in terms of giving them the information they 188 00:14:03.450 --> 00:14:09.850 need and experientially taking advantage of the digital capabilities that we have? And then 189 00:14:09.929 --> 00:14:13.480 the second part of that is, how do we get them to come the 190 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.960 same way that they were motivated to come when they went to that Mobile World 191 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.799 Congress or Magnan Association of Clinical Chemistry or anything that's a big event that draws 192 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:26.470 people from their industry, and I think that once you step back and you 193 00:14:26.549 --> 00:14:31.269 start thinking that way, two things happen. The first is you start rushing 194 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:35.309 around trying to recreate the event in a very short period of time because you 195 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:37.990 know it's not going to be as effective, and you give yourself a little 196 00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:39.659 bit of breathing room and say look, this is going to be here for 197 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:45.259 a while. Let's do it right, and you start planning instead of knee 198 00:14:45.259 --> 00:14:48.299 jerk reaction. Let's throw something up there. We had an event for May. 199 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:50.100 We got to do it in May and it would end up not being 200 00:14:50.139 --> 00:14:54.850 very effective. The second thing is you can then start to take advantage of 201 00:14:54.970 --> 00:15:01.610 a variety of different digital capabilities. That might include interactive product demonstrations, it 202 00:15:01.730 --> 00:15:07.799 might include some live streaming for subject Meta experts or some industry luminaries, and 203 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.399 you can create these events in such a way where it actually is useful for 204 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.840 the participants to attend the same way they would in the past. Yeah, 205 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.549 absolutely. I think it's probably a whole other conversation talking about how do you 206 00:15:22.309 --> 00:15:28.990 recreate and facilitate the community and they the participant interaction, because I've kind of 207 00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:31.429 felt the same way. I mean we're a little bit biased because we eat, 208 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.820 drink, sleep, pid casting all day long, and so we've kind 209 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:37.940 of thought like, Hey, you could go to this event in Boston, 210 00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.220 you know, but pretty much you could hear any of those speakers and a 211 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:46.340 podcast and save the travel. But the reason we would go to events is 212 00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:50.210 literally sometimes we wouldn't even go and consume the content. It's because we knew 213 00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:54.169 that a concentrated group of folks that we wanted to talk to would be there 214 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:58.090 and we could set up one on one or small group, you know, 215 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:00.490 interactions, those sorts of things. So I think as as a marketer or 216 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.600 event marketer, now turn digital marketer or wherever you are on that spectrum. 217 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.200 It's definitely something to think about. We talked a little bit about some of 218 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.320 the pitfalls, Gavin. I want to leave a little bit of time for 219 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.159 some examples. I know there are a couple of customers that have done this 220 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:21.350 really well that other marketing teams might be able to learn from, some companies 221 00:16:21.389 --> 00:16:26.029 that are moving to digital, interactive experiences that are driving a lot of engagement. 222 00:16:26.029 --> 00:16:30.029 They're not just replacing the line item on the budget or the place holder 223 00:16:30.110 --> 00:16:33.899 for the event calendar. Can you tell us a couple of quick stories there 224 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:38.259 that might elaborate on some things that other brands are doing well? Absolutely, 225 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.379 and I think that there's really a couple of themes to focus on it you're 226 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:45.620 thinking about making this transition. One is it's not just about marketing, it's 227 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:49.649 about marketing and sales. So don't just focus on the marketing event, but 228 00:16:49.809 --> 00:16:56.889 how do you transform that digital experience to something that sales people can themselves use, 229 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:00.450 even in a smaller venue, because sales people are experiencing the same thing 230 00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.960 that marketing teams are. They're no longer able to go and visit their customer. 231 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.720 The customer doesn't have that conference room available for them to sit in and 232 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.359 engage with. So there's an analog to the marketing event there that sales meeting 233 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:17.150 as well, and so the video conference solution, which everybody is gearing up 234 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:19.750 for, is not sufficient. It's necessary because we have to connect. But 235 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:22.190 now that I've got you in the video conference, now what do I do? 236 00:17:22.269 --> 00:17:26.309 Do I throw up my powerpoints lines and walk you through the same thing. 237 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:30.339 I think that's a missed opportunity. Right. So one thing we're training 238 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:33.500 our clients to do, and their sales teams is, when you do have 239 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.980 that video conference, give them this digital engagement experience, but you're not the 240 00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:41.460 one driving. Actually send them the link, let them drive, share their 241 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:45.529 screen and now they're actually doing the engagement. They're much less likely in that 242 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.089 form, by the way, to check their email and to go on facebook 243 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:52.250 and do other things because they're actually focused on doing something as opposed to just 244 00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:56.650 listening or watching a powerpoint presentation. So one thing is think about marketing and 245 00:17:56.849 --> 00:18:00.960 sales as now being much more aligned, both in their constraints but also in 246 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.039 their opportunities. So a couple of quick stories. Amazon web services, for 247 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:07.599 example, as you know as well, is the leader, one of the 248 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:14.349 leaders the entire web infrastructure. It's no, it's not just on demand services 249 00:18:14.470 --> 00:18:18.990 but the entire web infrastructure, service platforms, and they relied a great deal 250 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:23.789 on conferences like Mobile World Congress to create these facetoface engagements. So when that 251 00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:29.940 conference was canceled, they simply took the digital engagement experience that they were going 252 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:34.339 to deliver there and they transformed everything about the way they touched customers to deliver 253 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:38.660 that same engagement. And so it went straight into sales, it went into 254 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:44.289 the web experience and immediately what happened is not only were they able to engage 255 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:47.529 with a lot of people who didn't have access to that show, weren't able 256 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:49.809 to go to the show, but they were able to get to those same 257 00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:53.009 people with the same message and the same experience. And, as you said, 258 00:18:53.009 --> 00:18:56.920 it's not just touching a screen, it's actually a deep dive, being 259 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:03.200 able to traverse different network apologies and understand value and instead of just talking about 260 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.240 products and features, it's talking about real value. And so each customer gets 261 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.470 their own experience. They do it in their own engagement and they doing it 262 00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:15.150 both live on a website, the Amazon services websers website, but also in 263 00:19:15.230 --> 00:19:19.230 sales meetings and they've just taken this platform and they've turned it into something that's 264 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:25.140 now become a common, very effective way of creating that high level of customer 265 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:29.700 engagement. The other example that comes to mind, as there's actually two central 266 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:33.660 link, is one where they created a virtual reality experience. That was for 267 00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:38.009 trade shows and now I have delivered this virtual reality experience in a web environment 268 00:19:38.049 --> 00:19:41.890 where people can actually use their web browsers to traverse and that's not the same 269 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:45.049 as having anymmosive hit set on, but it gives the same information in a 270 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:51.329 very engaging and emotionally connective way, and they're able to do the same sorts 271 00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:56.039 of things now in sales meetings and on their website, and that's also transformed 272 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.240 the way they think about customer engagement. It's no longer about geetting somebody physically 273 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.759 in one place to do something. It's about getting them in their place to 274 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.509 do what's valuable and informative for them and then to share that experience. And 275 00:20:07.630 --> 00:20:14.109 juniper networks had exactly the same experience where they had a very specific booth set 276 00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:18.509 up that they had created and were able to transform that very quickly into a 277 00:20:18.670 --> 00:20:26.180 sales experience in an online marketing experience by providing that clear interactive capability and, 278 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:30.099 as you said, skipping the step ups having somebody go to a virtual booth. 279 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:33.500 That driving right into the experience. And then the last one that I 280 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:40.089 think is is relevant is fimofficial scientific, which has been using interactive experiences to 281 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:45.490 help transform the sales process from instead of saying we have a the best product, 282 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.890 what they've really said is we have the best set of solutions and we're 283 00:20:48.930 --> 00:20:52.960 the best partner for you, and they're using a suite of interactive solutions to 284 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.000 explain that. And now that they've gone entirely digital, because all of their 285 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.400 customers are, you know, basically, you know, working from home and 286 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.950 remote, they were abled to train their insight entire sales team to use these 287 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:07.789 tools interactively in that mode that we just talked about, where they're giving the 288 00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:15.069 customer control, and their productivity has actually increased during this time. Well, 289 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:19.140 those team has been able to be effective in their sales engagements. They've their 290 00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:25.059 sales velocities increased and the customers have reported back to them that they're having a 291 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:29.380 much better experience now that they're not rushed in the lab to have five minutes 292 00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:32.819 with a sales trip. They have this hour and they're engaging and they're doing 293 00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:37.009 the engagement themselves. So it's some very powerful messages there about transformation, not 294 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:41.450 just doing the same thing digitally. But really don't coming back to the that 295 00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.089 first distinction that you gave for us, Gavin, I think that really brings 296 00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:48.839 it full circle and I appreciate you sharing, you know, those specific examples 297 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.720 because and that just that strategic part about enabling salespeople with a digital experience to 298 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.079 deliver to their customer. But not, Hey, and now we got to 299 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.640 train you how to walk through this, just like we would do a product 300 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.990 demo. Right. That that small change of okay, Mr and Mrs Customer, 301 00:22:04.029 --> 00:22:07.430 Here's the link. It's in the chat. All right, take over. 302 00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:10.470 Can you share your screen? All Right, I'm going to back seat 303 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:14.309 drive here or just kind of sit back and and it's really going to be 304 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:18.539 interesting to see how this shift in the folks that really do take hold of 305 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:22.700 some of the new opportunities, how maybe that becomes the new normal. I 306 00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:27.019 know we're probably already tired of hearing the new normal in all sorts of context, 307 00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:30.369 but I think it applies here Gavin, this has been a really great 308 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:34.730 conversation for anyone who's interested, especially on the sales side. Just earlier this 309 00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:40.609 week we did an episode with Russell were with over at show pad about empowering 310 00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:45.559 remote sellers who are more used to field sales, going to events those sorts 311 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.160 of things. Will Link to that in the show notes. Gavin, this 312 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.799 has been a fantastic conversation. If anybody listening to this would like to stay 313 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.160 connected with you or reach out to you or anyone else on the Ke on 314 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.710 interactive team, what's the best way for them to take next steps here now? 315 00:22:57.789 --> 00:23:04.589 Website is wwwk oncom, Kao ncom, and they can always just send 316 00:23:04.630 --> 00:23:08.710 me an email at chief in at Koncom and be happy to talk to anybody 317 00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:12.460 about what's happening in the industry. Awesome. Well, I appreciate both the 318 00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:17.380 context at a high level and then breaking down some very specific examples. I 319 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.940 think that gives a lot of sales and marketing teams out there some things to 320 00:23:21.059 --> 00:23:23.740 think about. So really appreciate you adding value for listeners today. Gavin. 321 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.730 Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. Logan, thanks again. 322 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:33.809 I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I 323 00:23:33.849 --> 00:23:37.529 get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to 324 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:41.839 grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you 325 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.440 leave a review for me to be growth and apple podcasts and email me a 326 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.720 screenshot of the review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a 327 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.839 signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect 328 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.829 with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you get a 329 00:23:56.910 --> 00:23:57.269 free book. We both win.