1218: When (& When Not) To Personalize Outbound Sales Messaging w/ Kyle Coleman

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:11.949 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:11.990 --> 00:00:16.910 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:17.070 --> 00:00:21.390 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:21.429 --> 00:00:25.300 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:34.740 Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to beb growth, a daily podcast for BB leaders. 6 00:00:35.299 --> 00:00:38.810 We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon 7 00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:43.210 Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's 8 00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:47.890 because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of 9 00:00:48.009 --> 00:00:52.560 our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, 10 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:57.159 they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BTB companies in the 11 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.759 world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.629 a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts 13 00:01:03.709 --> 00:01:07.549 of the show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear 14 00:01:07.629 --> 00:01:11.230 stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and 15 00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:15.310 downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting 16 00:01:15.909 --> 00:01:23.739 well, maybe let's get into the show. Before we get into today's episode, 17 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:26.939 we wanted to let you know about another podcast you may want to check 18 00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:30.819 out, the sales podcast with West Shaffer. West, who's known as the 19 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:37.409 sales whisper, helps salespeople everywhere generate more in bound sales that close faster, 20 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:42.329 easier, at higher margins, with less dress and more fun. Our favorite 21 00:01:42.329 --> 00:01:46.769 episode on his show is titled Why you need to build for the next procession. 22 00:01:46.769 --> 00:01:51.480 Check it out and find the sales podcast wherever you do your podcast listening. 23 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:57.599 All right, let's get into the show. Welcome back to be tob 24 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.430 growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. Today I'm joined by Kyle 25 00:02:00.590 --> 00:02:05.549 Coleman. He is the VP of revenue growth and enablement over at clary. 26 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:07.669 Kyle. How's it going to Amen, I am living the dream. Thank 27 00:02:07.669 --> 00:02:10.949 you for having me, Logan. Yeah, absolutely, Man. Your content 28 00:02:12.030 --> 00:02:15.139 has been on fire on Linkedin. James and I both commenting on stuff that 29 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:19.340 you've been putting out and commenting on lately and we thought, man, we've 30 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:22.740 got to get kyle on the show. So thank you so much for joining 31 00:02:22.780 --> 00:02:25.379 us. Man, we're going to be talking about scaling personalization. How can 32 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:29.259 how can you do that effectively? How can you avoid, you know, 33 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:35.090 going beyond that point of diminishing return with personalization and do it efficiently? Before 34 00:02:35.090 --> 00:02:37.689 we do that, man, let's set the table a little bit. Share 35 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:39.490 with folks a little bit about yourself and what you and the Clary teamer up 36 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:44.840 to these days. Sure. Yeah, so I started my career in bb 37 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:49.319 tech about seven or eight years ago at a company called looker based in Santa 38 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:53.439 Cruz. I was the sixth employee at looker. was there for about six 39 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:59.629 years and till the company grew to about eight hundred employees and then was acquired 40 00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:02.949 by Google in the summer of two thousand and nineteen. I then jumped over 41 00:03:04.189 --> 00:03:08.590 to Clary to lead sales development and sales enablement in April of two thousand and 42 00:03:08.590 --> 00:03:14.180 nineteen and as the year progressed, the company grew and there was a little 43 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.860 bit more room for growth, I ended up taking on a few more departments 44 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:23.979 on the demand marketing and field marketing side. So I now lead our newly 45 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:28.289 formed growth department, which is a combination of demand generation, field marketing as 46 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:31.770 well as sales development and sales enablement. Awesome and I love to hear that 47 00:03:31.810 --> 00:03:36.169 about your journey. Yet we I've known a couple of people who have been 48 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:39.090 on that that looker ride that that you were on there. I think there's 49 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:43.919 probably something as well in the way that you guys are organizing your go to 50 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:49.039 market team. They're at clary the way you describe the building of the growth 51 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.039 team, but we'll have to will have to revisit that another time. I 52 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.590 want to dive straight into personalization, man, as we're talking about it today. 53 00:03:57.150 --> 00:04:00.270 I think this first point about outreach fatigue is something that a lot of 54 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:03.669 our listeners can understand. But let's just for a minute, man, tell 55 00:04:03.669 --> 00:04:08.189 us a little bit about your thinking about why this is such an important topic 56 00:04:08.349 --> 00:04:12.460 for sales and marketing professionals right now. Yeah, it's really interesting, Wigan, 57 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:16.139 because what it has happened over the years is just as marketing automation tools 58 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:21.180 like Marquetto and eloqua became sort of the table stakes for marketing teams, the 59 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:27.410 same has happened with sales automation and sales acceleration tools like outreach and sales loft, 60 00:04:27.850 --> 00:04:30.689 and what that means unfortunately, is that a lot of sales people have 61 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:34.769 become kind of lazy when it comes to their outreach, where they just rely 62 00:04:34.889 --> 00:04:41.480 on these prescribed and pre written and templatized email touches, and linked in touches 63 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:46.199 for that matter, that just completely inundate their prospects in boxes without any real 64 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:53.709 semblance of rationale or intent or personalization in the message. So these messages just 65 00:04:53.829 --> 00:04:58.870 pile up and pile up in prospects in boxes and therefore prospects are more predisposed 66 00:04:58.910 --> 00:05:02.189 to ignoring everything that engaging with anything. And that is the major problem we 67 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:05.509 face now. Yep, absolutely, and so when you're trying to reach to 68 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:10.860 even more fatigued buyers than you've got an uphill battle the climb. I mean, 69 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:13.420 I can just you know, you can't see me on video right now, 70 00:05:13.459 --> 00:05:16.740 but I'm waving my hand at and my email inbox and my linkedin messages 71 00:05:16.819 --> 00:05:21.089 and connection request full of stuff like that lately, just from this past week, 72 00:05:21.089 --> 00:05:25.730 from Monday to now, and part of it hits on what you talked 73 00:05:25.769 --> 00:05:29.529 about. It doesn't have any rationale, even if it doesn't have personalization. 74 00:05:29.569 --> 00:05:32.850 At least if it's rational then I might give it at least a three second 75 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:36.639 clans instead of one, but right there's just no rationale for it. That 76 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:41.680 is what kind of irritates me and just makes me feel sad for the wasted 77 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:46.360 time and waste in dollars for revenue teams that are trying to go to market 78 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.439 that way. So we're going to be talking about some specific ways. You 79 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:55.029 did a Linkedin Post that broke down some very specific how to's on Scaling personalization. 80 00:05:55.110 --> 00:05:57.829 Will get to that in just a second. Let's talk a little bit 81 00:05:57.870 --> 00:06:01.110 about the first stage that you recommend for sales development and other folks who are 82 00:06:01.189 --> 00:06:06.139 crafting these outreach messages. Let's talk about tying your research and the importance of 83 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:10.899 research and tying that to your value prop and then we'll get into some of 84 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:15.100 the tactics on how to personalize its skill. Yeah, absolutely. There's sort 85 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:18.970 of a misconception, I think, as it relates to research, where some 86 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:24.649 people think that they need to know every single thing about a person or about 87 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:28.610 a company in order to craft and effective message to that person, and that's 88 00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:30.850 just not true. You alluded to it at the top of the intro here, 89 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:35.360 where there are diminishing returns as it relates to the time spent doing research. 90 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:41.759 So what I try and preach with the team is spend about five minutes 91 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.160 doing the research and about five minutes crafting the email. And if you can 92 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.389 send an email and it takes time, of course it's way easier said than 93 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:51.069 them. But if you're can abide by that five and five rule, you're 94 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:57.029 going to be in really good shape and you'll realize the right things to personalize 95 00:06:57.069 --> 00:07:00.870 and the right things to templatize. So when you're doing your research, there 96 00:07:00.870 --> 00:07:04.100 are a few different categories that I think are really important to try and look 97 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.860 for as you're trying to figure out how to craft this message. There's research 98 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:13.019 on the company, there's research on the industry or the persona that you're reaching 99 00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:16.610 out to, and then there's actual personal research that you're doing about that person. 100 00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:19.810 Like, for example, the personal research. If you're going to do 101 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:24.329 research on me, go to my linkedin page. Use can see everything that 102 00:07:24.370 --> 00:07:27.769 I'm about, from the things I care about in the office and at work 103 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:30.399 to things in my personal life. Like I put on my linkedin profile that 104 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.959 I'm a cordy owner just to see how much corby swag people will send me. 105 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:40.879 But it's that kind of thing that you'd be amazed at how open people 106 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:44.589 are about their personal interests and how easy it is, and we'll get to 107 00:07:44.629 --> 00:07:46.430 the segue portion, Eis that later, but how easy it is to Segue 108 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:51.709 from that personal research into the value prop for for your company. So those 109 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:56.790 other two categories, the company research. Who are they hiring? What are 110 00:07:56.790 --> 00:07:59.259 the what of their growth trends look like over the last three or six, 111 00:07:59.259 --> 00:08:03.540 twelve months? What kind of press releases have you seen that their executives are 112 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:07.259 quoted in? What can you glean from their mission statement of companies, mission 113 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:11.980 statement, things like that that just show the prospect that you've taken the time 114 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:15.850 to understand their company a little bit better. And then the same is true 115 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.769 with industry or persona based research. What are their competitors doing? You know, 116 00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.170 surface up some sort of competitive insight that maybe they don't know about? 117 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:26.360 What kind of trends are they facing in the industry? What kind of statistics 118 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:31.079 can you bring to the for that will be relevant to their persona? It's 119 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.840 those sorts of things that really catch my eye and and show me that the 120 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:39.360 person reaching out to me really does care not just about me and my company, 121 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:41.990 but about solving problems that I have. Yeah, absolutely, and you. 122 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.710 I love the way that you break down the three types of personalization based 123 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.110 on company or types of research that lead to types of personalization. I Guess 124 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.460 Company, Industry and Persona, and then personal I mean you should definitely you 125 00:08:56.539 --> 00:09:00.220 know the industry and the persona. Some of that, hopefully, is already 126 00:09:00.259 --> 00:09:03.179 done by the time that you see some of your templates and your go to 127 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:07.100 market messaging, but invest more time. They're become an expert because it's only 128 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:13.330 going to pay dividends because that is repeatable. It's not as custom as to 129 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:16.210 each and every person, but the more that you can show that you have 130 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:20.129 your finger on the pulse and you actually understand things that are going on with 131 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:24.009 your buyer, persona and in their industry. You bring up some really good 132 00:09:24.009 --> 00:09:28.000 points there to kyle talking about who are they hiring? Look at look at 133 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.279 their jobs postings. What are their growth trends? I mean that's so easy 134 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.200 to look at with linkedin sales navigator on headcount, you know, and revenue, 135 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.909 or look at tools like crunch base as well PR statements, mission statement. 136 00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:43.350 I get a little bit if he on because James and I talked about 137 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:48.070 this the other day talking on the show about how we crafted our mission statement 138 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:50.110 and how we feel that. You know, a lot of companies they don't 139 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.100 do a very good job of actually, you know, pushing that out into 140 00:09:54.139 --> 00:09:58.220 the culture. So to me sometimes that might lead to something like Oh yeah, 141 00:09:58.220 --> 00:10:00.700 I didn't know that was our mission statement, right. So maybe be 142 00:10:00.820 --> 00:10:03.659 careful with that one a little bit, but I'll I love all of those. 143 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:07.809 Definitely tell me a little bit about how you look at the transition point 144 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:11.090 man, from from research to value prop and then we'll get into some specifics 145 00:10:11.169 --> 00:10:15.769 of where to personalize, where to rent and repeat and those sorts of things. 146 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:20.289 Yeah, totally. So a I mentioned that I was a courty owner 147 00:10:20.409 --> 00:10:24.000 and I put that on my on my profile on Linkedin, and somebody from 148 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.720 a competitor to outreach and sales loft, a smaller kind of upstart company that's 149 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.360 in that same sales automation space, reached out to me and said, much 150 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.440 like a corby, we are small but mighty, and I was like that's 151 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.590 perfect, like that's the Seguay that that caught my eye and like that's a 152 00:10:37.629 --> 00:10:41.629 stilly example, obviously, but that kind of thing. It works. It's 153 00:10:41.629 --> 00:10:46.909 amazing. One of the STRs on our team was doing some research on a 154 00:10:46.029 --> 00:10:50.940 person and they found their twitter profile and on their twitter profile this person was 155 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:56.139 very much about landscape paintings and so and also had some call back to their 156 00:10:56.539 --> 00:11:00.940 home country, somewhere in western Europe, I can remember where. And what 157 00:11:01.059 --> 00:11:05.409 our SDR did was they went and they found a landscape painting on Amazon shifted 158 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:09.129 to that person and the message had something to do with how, just like 159 00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:11.169 you, know you are interested in these beautiful paintings, claire, you can 160 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:15.769 help paint a picture of your entire revenue, operations or organization. No, 161 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:20.360 it doesn't need to be exactly by the book Segue, but just the connective 162 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.320 tissue between the research and the value prop for the company. It can be 163 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.639 relatively tenuous. Obviously the more concrete the better, but it doesn't need to 164 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.870 be a perfectly crafted sort of segue. You just need to help the person 165 00:11:33.909 --> 00:11:37.629 connect the dots a little bit more. This is easier to do with things 166 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:39.990 like growth trends, where you can, you know, say you're growing very 167 00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:45.029 quickly. Here's how clary can help you on board faster, implement process that's 168 00:11:45.070 --> 00:11:48.539 or whatever it may be. Standardize that sort of on boarding flow. You 169 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:54.860 just find the right way to to tie or to build that connected tissue between 170 00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:58.379 the research you've done and then value that your company is bringing. A lot 171 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.090 of times people ignore this step completely and therefore that the personalization is wasted because 172 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:09.090 the email doesn't seem genuine. It seems like it's it doesn't flow. It 173 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:13.250 just feels to salese. It's kind of a it's too obvious, you know 174 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:16.120 what I mean. So there needs to be some sort of link between the 175 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.960 two things. Hey, everybody, logan the sweet fish year. You probably 176 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.799 already know that we think you should start a podcast if you haven't already. 177 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.840 But what if you have and you're asking these kinds of questions? 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All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, 187 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.480 absolutely, and I think something else to think about is maybe you make 188 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.789 that sort of really personal touch which I've seen people post on linkedin and give 189 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:33.429 shoutouts to SDRs for going that extra mile. I mean kind of bucket your 190 00:13:33.429 --> 00:13:37.470 leads, bucket your your accounts. Like don't send everybody a painting. That's 191 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:41.940 not what we're saying, but you should be tier in your accounts that you're 192 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:46.860 going after the other thing is that, as you do that personalization research on 193 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.820 the company, you know, I've heard Joe Caprio, VP of sales over 194 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:54.100 at course, talk about you know, how many reps are failing to effectively 195 00:13:54.179 --> 00:14:01.490 multi thread and the astronomical amount of increase that that can have for your productivity 196 00:14:01.529 --> 00:14:03.649 as a sales Rep. so I think we've got to combine those two. 197 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.809 Write. If you're doing this research on the company, don't just wait, 198 00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:11.240 wait, quote unquote, waste it by just personalizing around one person. Go 199 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:16.759 go after you know, that other influencer and to, you think is the 200 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.759 target decisionmaker as well. And then you can have multiple touches that are more 201 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:26.230 kind of that concrete connection and maybe one that's little bit more of a stretch 202 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:28.590 or design to make them smile, like the core gear or the painting reference. 203 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:35.429 You know, I heard Jason Bay of listful prospecting talking on Scott Ingram's 204 00:14:35.470 --> 00:14:39.220 podcast daily sales tips the other day talking about hey, we come up with 205 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:41.940 all these ideas, all these value props, and then we blast them all 206 00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.940 in the first email. It's like, oh no, no, we know 207 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.500 it takes seven to eight touches. Spread them out. Have the more creative, 208 00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:52.460 have the more straightforward, and spread them out over your sequence. What 209 00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:54.929 do you what do you think about that? Cow? I could not agree 210 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:58.529 more. If you go through the effort to do all of that different research 211 00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:01.169 and you get three, four, five, whatever, it is, data 212 00:15:01.250 --> 00:15:05.049 points that you can personalize around, drip it throughout the course of the sequence. 213 00:15:05.129 --> 00:15:09.360 There's no reason to shoot it all out in one message. You got 214 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:15.399 a multiplier chances because your prospects in boxes are so flooded without reach, there's 215 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.960 no guarantee that they're going to even see your first mail. Let alone respond 216 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.509 to it. The other thing that I would say logan that's related to that 217 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:26.750 is reuse your research in those multi threaded channels. There is absolutely no shame 218 00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:31.830 in sending a similar, not the same, but sending a similar message on 219 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:35.820 Linkedin as you send via email. And the other extension of that is on 220 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:41.460 the phone. Your Voice Mail should be research oriented. It should be very 221 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.779 similar to the messaging that you sent the email. That way, if they 222 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:46.899 listen to your voice mail, they search for you, for your name in 223 00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:50.850 the inbox and they get a similar sort of written message. It should be 224 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:56.450 make the experience for your prospect as consistent as possible. It's hugely valuable and 225 00:15:56.450 --> 00:16:00.690 it's a really nice way to be able to reuse that research that you do 226 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:03.009 a few times. Yeah, it's like what we talked about as marketers, 227 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:07.320 you know, don't just create one piece of content to use it once. 228 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.600 You know, like Gary v talks about content on content on content should be 229 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.879 repurposed at least three, four five different ways. We should think about that 230 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.789 with our personalization and are messaging in sales development and go to market teams. 231 00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:25.750 So let's talk a little bit about some of your practical how to skyle on 232 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:30.110 when and where to personalize in your outbound messaging them. Yeah, yeah, 233 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:37.100 so personalize the subject line, obviously, and personalize the intros to your emails. 234 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:41.259 And the reason that this is so important is because the every email client 235 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:45.659 for the most part these days, shows both the subject line as well as 236 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.490 a preview of the email itself. So you'll get, you know, somewhere 237 00:16:48.490 --> 00:16:52.649 between ten or twenty words that they can see before they even open your email. 238 00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:56.090 So make sure that that's personalized. It increases as the chance that they 239 00:16:56.129 --> 00:17:00.210 open your email. To begin with, the callouts to the research that you've 240 00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:04.160 done obviously need to be personalized every and every single personize message you sent. 241 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:10.279 And then the segue between that research and the your company's value prop. It 242 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.799 has to be personalized, and there are ways, like you just mentioned, 243 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.190 if you're reaching out to the same or different people at the same company with 244 00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.910 the same piece of research, then that Segue, of course, can be 245 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:22.069 the same for those two different males. But you need to templatize those things, 246 00:17:22.230 --> 00:17:26.710 Intros, callouts and Segues, and then you can templatize things like your 247 00:17:26.789 --> 00:17:32.619 company's value prop. Your company's value prop should be a written by and be 248 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:37.339 approved by product marketing either. They are the best people are communicating the value 249 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.259 of your product. So you use that and templatize it. And yeah, 250 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.049 it should be tailored for persona or industry, but there's no reason for an 251 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:49.250 SDR or a salesperson to be rewriting a company's value prop every single time they 252 00:17:49.289 --> 00:17:53.369 write a personalize note. And then calls to action. Calls to action should 253 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:59.480 always be templatized and be as uniform as possible. A lot of times SDRs 254 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.240 and sales people get their get in their own heads about, you know, 255 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.440 crafting these really elegant calls to action for a different levels of seniority and things 256 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.599 like that is just not worth the squeeze. So templatize the the calls to 257 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.029 action and templatize the pain points that you're solving for that person or for that 258 00:18:15.190 --> 00:18:18.230 company, and you'll multiply the effort significantly. Again, these are this is 259 00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:22.230 what will allow you to Aplide by that five minutes of research, five minutes 260 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.470 of writing sort of principle, so you can try and send out a personalize 261 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:29.059 and note every ten minutes. Yeah, I love it, man. So 262 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:32.420 for folks to recap a little bit there. You know, what you are 263 00:18:32.539 --> 00:18:36.500 recommending is those first three points, the subject and and first line of the 264 00:18:36.579 --> 00:18:40.740 email, the research and the transition, and then you want to lean more 265 00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:44.450 on your templates for that value prop obviously you want to have different ones to 266 00:18:44.490 --> 00:18:48.289 choose from for Persona and industry, but you should be choosing them, not 267 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:51.210 writing them from scratch. And then the calls to action. Like you said, 268 00:18:51.730 --> 00:18:55.009 one of my favorite expressions is the juice worth the squeeze right, and 269 00:18:55.089 --> 00:18:59.799 it's just not in that area to become super custom because if you've gotten them 270 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:02.920 there, you've done a good job of hopefully driving them to that call to 271 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.160 action. I don't think that a difference in that last line of the call 272 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:08.640 to action is really going to make a big difference. I love that you 273 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.630 pointed out the first line, though. That's such a big thing. I've 274 00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:17.710 been recommending to folks when you send a linkedin connection request, when you personalize 275 00:19:17.750 --> 00:19:22.029 it, don't put a line break after you say hi Kyle Comma, like 276 00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:26.259 put High Kyle Comma or high kyle space and then space and then keep on 277 00:19:26.380 --> 00:19:30.859 that first line because, much like in email, that preview that you get 278 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:34.380 isn't the whole thing right. When you get a connection request, it's usually 279 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:38.569 on those those first one to two line so maximize that real estate where you're 280 00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:42.089 doing the personalization. So odds are you know it's going to be seen. 281 00:19:42.250 --> 00:19:47.849 I also love what you said about not being afraid to reuse that personalization. 282 00:19:47.970 --> 00:19:51.410 It shouldn't be the exact same message, but I think we get this in 283 00:19:51.490 --> 00:19:53.200 our head of like, oh they're going to see that I reference the Corgi 284 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.640 on linked in an email. Well, one they're probably not going to. 285 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.519 They're probably only going to see one of them. Right it just because the 286 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.519 the the odds of what's going to happen into if they do, if they're 287 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:07.069 not the exact same thing, I don't think they're going to fault you for 288 00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:11.509 it because they've seen, you know, kind of the double effort. Anything 289 00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:14.150 else that you want to you want to add to this today? Man? 290 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:18.670 Yeah, one last thought. This pertains less to personalization and more to kind 291 00:20:18.670 --> 00:20:22.019 of email best practices. But something that I got in the habit of doing 292 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:25.500 early in my Sdr career and the message that I preach now to to all 293 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:29.980 starrs and sales people is, before you send your personalized emails, read them 294 00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:33.019 out loud, like literally read them out loud to yourself or to somebody on 295 00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:37.809 your team, and you'll realize that your first draft is too long. You 296 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.089 need to cut some things out. You'll realize a lot of times that you, 297 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:45.130 your message is more about you than it is about them, and so 298 00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:48.650 you need to not use the word I. As much as possible, avoid 299 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:52.440 the word I. and also what you'll find is you're too formal when you're 300 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.119 writing emails and people you know people are on the side of formality for some 301 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:02.039 reason, and there's a major difference between formality and professionalism. You always want 302 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:03.910 to be professional, but you don't want to be overly formal. That's like 303 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:07.670 the number one indicator to me that this is not an email written by a 304 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:11.589 human is when it starts with dear sir or Madam. Like God, it's 305 00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:15.670 not never anything I would ever want to read. So yeah, read your 306 00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:18.150 emails out loud. I know it can be a little painful at first, 307 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:22.180 but again, this is meant to in gender consistency. If you are writing 308 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:26.740 in your voice, then when you're speaking to that person, obviously in your 309 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:30.220 voice. There will be a very consistent experience across this different channel. So 310 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:34.490 highly recommended. Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that James and I 311 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:38.250 talked about a lot is take that copy, whether it's a marketing email, 312 00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:42.529 sales outreach email, copy on a landing page or whatever, read it out 313 00:21:42.609 --> 00:21:47.359 loud and can you can you picture yourself saying that to a buddy at a 314 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:49.160 bar or a coffee shop or whatever the case may be? So do that 315 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.319 in the office. Just take it and read it out loud. One of 316 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.279 the things I do, more for podcast solo episodes, but also for other 317 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.829 sorts of content, including, you know, outreach messages, is to open 318 00:22:00.869 --> 00:22:04.910 up Google Docs, turn on the voice typing and then just talk it out. 319 00:22:06.309 --> 00:22:08.109 Now, of course the voice typing isn't perfect and you got to clean 320 00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:11.549 it up for grammar and that sort of stuff, but it kind of removes 321 00:22:11.630 --> 00:22:15.819 that disconnect of Oh my fingers are touching the keyboard, I have to say 322 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:19.339 dear sir, or Hello Kyle. Why not say hey kyle? I would 323 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.779 say hey kyle if I, you know, was just talking to you. 324 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:26.180 So it just makes some of those subtle shifts that people can pick up on. 325 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:30.690 I love that you also said limit the use of I and I would 326 00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:34.250 say also limit the use of we, especially in that subject line and in 327 00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:38.569 that first line. Todd Capony, who's the author of the transparency sale has 328 00:22:38.569 --> 00:22:41.809 been a guest on this show. Before he calls that we weiing all over 329 00:22:42.009 --> 00:22:45.880 someone's inboss because it's we. Are This we or the premier leader? They 330 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.640 don't care right and don't say clients like this or at this no, change 331 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.920 the wording to where it says you. See How many times you can fit 332 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.670 the word you into that email and make it short, and you're going to 333 00:22:57.710 --> 00:23:00.630 be set up for pretty good success. Man, hundred percent agreed. I 334 00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:03.430 love it, Kyle. I could chat with you on all this stuff all 335 00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:06.670 day long, but for the sake of time we're going to call it for 336 00:23:06.750 --> 00:23:08.029 today. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Man. If 337 00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:11.710 anybody listening to this would like to stay connected with you, which I highly 338 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:17.059 recommend that they do, or follow along with your content or learn more about 339 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:18.859 clary and what you guys are up to with the best way for them to 340 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.859 take action on any of those things. Man. Yeah, my most active 341 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:26.170 social channel is linkedin by far, so please connect with man linkedin. My 342 00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:30.490 user name is Kyle t coleman. So yeah, come, come, and 343 00:23:30.569 --> 00:23:33.690 find me. I'm always happy to chat, Talk Shop, trade. Best 344 00:23:33.730 --> 00:23:36.609 practice is whatever it is. I would appreciate the outreach. Awesome man. 345 00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:38.130 Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Thank you so 346 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:45.680 much looking we totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 347 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.160 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 348 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.880 started the BOB growth big three, a note fluff email that boils down our 349 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:57.710 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 350 00:23:57.710 --> 00:24:03.789 Phish Mediacom Big Three. 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