1128: When Is It OK To Actually Sell on Social? w/ James Mackey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.200 Are you trying to establish your brand as a thought leader? Start a PODCAST, 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:09.750 invite industry experts to be guests on your show and watch your brand become 3 00:00:09.789 --> 00:00:15.750 the prime resource for decision makers in your industry. Learn more at sweetphish MEDIACOM. 4 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.780 You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. 5 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:28.859 We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon 6 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:33.219 Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's 7 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:37.850 because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of 8 00:00:37.929 --> 00:00:42.490 our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, 9 00:00:42.530 --> 00:00:47.049 they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BTB companies in the 10 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:50.600 world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, 11 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.479 a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts 12 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.320 of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear 13 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:00.960 stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and 14 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:06.030 downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting 15 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:15.269 well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to BEDB growth. 16 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:19.780 I am your host for today's episode. Nikki Ivy was sweetfish media guys. 17 00:01:21.140 --> 00:01:26.140 I've got with me the day James mackew was CEO of secure vision. I 18 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:30.780 got James and he's got opinions and thoughts and takes for y'all. Well, 19 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:34.930 we're going to be talking about, you know, this question of when is 20 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.849 it okay to actually sell? So much work is done by thought leaders and 21 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:47.159 it contributors a like to talk sales people out of selling most of the time 22 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:49.799 because it's offensive. Is this sort of the idea that's out there? I 23 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.719 won't put words the James's mouth, but this is like. If you've countered 24 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:55.840 this idea, you know what I'm talking about. We're going to dig into 25 00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.040 it and figure out when is it okay be a salesperson. Before we dig 26 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.150 into that, though, James, I'd love it if you would just give 27 00:02:02.189 --> 00:02:06.230 us a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the folks at 28 00:02:06.230 --> 00:02:08.069 secure vision or up to these days. Yeah, sure thing. Thank you. 29 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:12.229 Thank you for having me today. Really looking forward to this. So 30 00:02:12.469 --> 00:02:15.780 Secure Vision, we're a boot teak agency and we combine traditional headhunting with modern 31 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:21.620 recruitment consulting. Basically what we do is we help high growth tech companies higher 32 00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:24.580 revenue generating talent. We also advise them on best practices and how to implement 33 00:02:24.699 --> 00:02:30.210 process the technology stack and build out their internal teams so they can have an 34 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:35.810 internal recruitment strategy that works at scale. So we work with companies just to 35 00:02:35.849 --> 00:02:38.810 help them high we help other companies actually build out program at scale. So 36 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:42.490 it just depends, but that's that's basically what we do and we work with 37 00:02:42.569 --> 00:02:45.960 around a hundred and ten companies in the hypergrowth, if you see backed SAS 38 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:50.520 space typically. Yeah, so my friends, all my friends in the hypergrowth. 39 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.800 Yeah, back I spent a little time in the Austin startup streets. 40 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:55.680 I like to talk about it. It was a one time learn some stuff, 41 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.789 failed, some stuff right, yep, and on some stuff. So 42 00:03:00.069 --> 00:03:02.710 you know, I think I've got pretty much everything one can get out of 43 00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:08.590 that environment. But what I didn't get was definitive, conclusive advice on when 44 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:13.539 it is okay to sell, particularly when it comes to a social selling strategy. 45 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:16.099 I talk to markers every day on this podcast, as you know, 46 00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:22.979 and the consensus is generally, when it comes to a social content strategy, 47 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:28.009 that we're not selling, that we're building awareness or building brand or sort of 48 00:03:28.090 --> 00:03:30.169 doing this, you know, make them come to you, type of strategy, 49 00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:36.370 but to directly pitch, directly asked for the business is a no no. 50 00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:40.639 But James says there are nuances and that we would do well to explore 51 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:46.360 those. So give us a quick overview of, first what your successful social 52 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.560 selling strategy has been and has had to be and how you build your business 53 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.599 on it, and then your philosophy on why you think maybe we need to 54 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.909 rethink these ideas. Well, I think it's just it's for stuff. It's 55 00:03:57.909 --> 00:04:01.110 a little bit funny because I think it's just commonly accepted now and the vast 56 00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:04.469 majority of salt leaders that I'm seeing, particularly on Linkedin or saying, Hey, 57 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:08.909 your whole content strategy just give, give gift. Never talk about what 58 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:12.699 you do. You should just focus on adding value, and I always thought 59 00:04:12.740 --> 00:04:15.060 that just sounded a little weird to me because I was thinking myself like well, 60 00:04:15.379 --> 00:04:17.980 if you're not in a business that adds value, why are you doing 61 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:23.300 it? Like obviously your product or service adds value to a specific market and 62 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:27.250 that's why there's a company. Pay You, people pay you to provide that 63 00:04:27.329 --> 00:04:30.610 product or service. It just didn't really make sense to me. But more 64 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:33.170 so, it's a I'm just looking at facts and I know when I started 65 00:04:33.250 --> 00:04:38.529 my company I didn't have any money saved up and I actually didn't have any 66 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:43.759 leads. I didn't go into secure vision having a client base and I also 67 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.920 at the time was living in Europe, so I didn't have the ability to 68 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.399 go to conferences and go to Silicon Valley and meet with people in person. 69 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:56.750 So I had to find a strategy online to acquire customers. So basically what 70 00:04:56.829 --> 00:05:00.509 I did is I just started marketing out candidates that I was working with and 71 00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:05.350 basically asking for business on linkedin and directly, but posting content talking about Hey, 72 00:05:05.389 --> 00:05:10.060 I'm partner with this really great candidate who's exceeding quota and a highly relevant 73 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:14.379 ass environment's currently looking for their next role in October and this sounds like somebody 74 00:05:14.420 --> 00:05:15.699 that you be interested in speaking with him. Yeah, let me know, 75 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:20.649 and just dropping that type of content, and the response was just amazing. 76 00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:24.649 I mean in my first month of business I signed up a two billion dollar 77 00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:28.970 publicly trading company and within the first three months we had a signed an exclusive 78 00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:31.089 contract with them to do the all their be to be SASS sales. It 79 00:05:31.170 --> 00:05:33.689 was three months. I was halfway across the world, all right, but 80 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:38.160 I just had the right social strategy and from there it just snowballed. I 81 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:42.279 signed up. We work and similar web and all sorts of really great hypergrowth 82 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.519 late stage SASS company is. So I've done it, and so I have 83 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.149 now a client book of a hundred, hundred, ten great customers and we've 84 00:05:50.189 --> 00:05:55.750 posed millions in terms of revenue throughout the years. And and it's funny. 85 00:05:55.750 --> 00:05:58.269 I'll comment on the different thought leaders out there and I'll just say like, 86 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:01.790 Hey, look like so I understand maybe there's some different philosophies, but that 87 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:06.019 said, what about these hundred ten clients and all this revenue and all this 88 00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:11.500 success over here? How is this fit into that? And they're just doesn't 89 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:14.899 really seem to be a desire to want to acknowledge that there's a place for 90 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:17.379 it, and I think that one of the things that I've been talking with 91 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:21.170 my network about is just that it just it all depends on your objectives. 92 00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:25.889 You got it. What is your objective on social what do you want to 93 00:06:25.970 --> 00:06:30.250 do, and I would agree that. If you're a CEO that's focused on 94 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:33.040 building out your personal brand and you really just want to focus on being a 95 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:36.240 thought leader and being known as an influencer and you want to get, we're 96 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:42.079 speaking, engagements, then yes, you should focus on content that isn't directed 97 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:46.160 at selling darkly your indirects. You what you do, just adding value and 98 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.629 being seen as that expert. But if you're an str or an account executive, 99 00:06:49.629 --> 00:06:55.310 I think it's completely reasonable to talk about what you do. You just 100 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:57.790 have to do it the right way. You can't, you know, if 101 00:06:57.829 --> 00:07:00.500 you're just saying like hey, we're analytics platform and we do this and that 102 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:04.300 and if you're interested in a demo, hit us up, like nobody's going 103 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:08.899 to engage with that. But if you, on the other hand, say 104 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.540 something to the effective like wow, it was just in New York City today 105 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:14.819 I visit one of my biggest clients and I was walking them through one of 106 00:07:14.860 --> 00:07:16.930 the features that we just released and it was so cool to see the look 107 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:19.930 on their face when they experience to success and they were able to get XYZ 108 00:07:20.089 --> 00:07:24.009 done in a shorter amount of time. And this is what I play for. 109 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:26.730 This is what I love and if you're struggling with this, I love 110 00:07:26.769 --> 00:07:29.209 to help you out, to feel free to DM me. If you posted 111 00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:31.600 like that, like one to three times a week, just a story like 112 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:35.319 that, people would be much more likely to engage and Pete, you would 113 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:39.839 start to get in bound leads. So that's I think that's it. Like 114 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:42.439 people just aren't creative. They're like, Oh, I can't sell on social. 115 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.310 It's like no, you're just doing it wrong, and it's like, 116 00:07:45.509 --> 00:07:47.069 you know the thing, the same people who are saying you can't sell on 117 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:53.870 social they advocate for for cold calling, and that's like saying cold calling doesn't 118 00:07:53.870 --> 00:07:57.949 work because only a small percentage engage. will cold calling does work. Well, 119 00:07:58.029 --> 00:08:00.540 yeah, a lot of people don't want to hear it, but when 120 00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:03.540 you do engage with the right person, it's successful and that's why people advocate 121 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.980 for that. It's the same thing with selling on social. Yeah, you're 122 00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:09.939 not going to get five hundred likes on that post unless you tell a really 123 00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:13.209 good story, and you probably could, but you might get a lot less 124 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:16.689 likes. But like, I've had plenty of posts that have like ten likes, 125 00:08:16.769 --> 00:08:20.769 maybe one comment, where I sign up a great client and then I 126 00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:24.850 had, you know, a few weeks ago I had this post about how 127 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:28.079 to answer if somebody asks you how to sell a pin on an interview, 128 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.000 and it went viral and, you know, got five hundred thousand views and 129 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:35.519 thousands of comments, these types of things. No business is landed from that. 130 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.360 Now might strategies changing, though? Right now we have all these clients. 131 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.870 Now I want to do the thought leadership and I want to do this 132 00:08:41.950 --> 00:08:46.669 speaking engagement. So my strategy is changed. But there's absolutely no reason for 133 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.149 somebody in the selling position shouldn't be selling what they do on social and it 134 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:52.070 should be valuable to their network and if it's not, they should go sell 135 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:56.259 something they believe in. That does add value. Talking. That's you hit 136 00:08:56.299 --> 00:09:00.379 on so many key things. The first one, though, is this idea 137 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.860 of we talked a little bit about about offline as well. Is that it 138 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:09.889 depends on what your role is or your seniority in your organization or in your 139 00:09:09.970 --> 00:09:13.850 career. So far. So what we have a lot of the time is 140 00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:24.960 CEOS telling SDRs to basically mirror a CEO social strategy. Yes, exactly the 141 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:30.799 same time. As an SDR, you're at a disadvantage because you likely don't 142 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.600 have the experience or the perceived expertise to speak from the same place of credibility 143 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:39.629 as the CEO. So you're if in you're competing with them for the same 144 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:43.629 social space to come through the same social noise. I've seen it done. 145 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:48.789 I've seen it done, but to what end? Right? Yeah, like 146 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:52.539 the for the STRS, like they can certainly gain a fallowing if they speak 147 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:58.419 to what they know and if they're speaking to other strs, they can still 148 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:03.179 be effective as a quote unquote the fault leader, whatever that really means. 149 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:05.220 But you know, if they can gain a following and do that. But 150 00:10:05.419 --> 00:10:09.649 it's just it just depends on what their objective is. If they're looking to 151 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:13.929 use social as a means to connect with more buyers. And if you're like 152 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.409 Mostes to yours, you have a monthly quota. Yes, your prospects don't 153 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:20.720 want to hear you talk about how you became such a good salesperson, unless 154 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:26.159 other salespeople, and not most of us, don't sell to other sales people. 155 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.000 So so I think that's the the disconnect and I'm really glad you illuminated 156 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.399 this for me because it's something that I had been struggling with that. Maybe 157 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.549 I didn't understand why I was struggling with it, but I was like, 158 00:10:37.669 --> 00:10:41.389 look, the fact is, I guess I hadn't had draw, I hadn't 159 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:45.830 drawn this line in the sand of what exactly do I want from my social 160 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:50.299 strategy? You do I want to be necessarily a thought leader, or do 161 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:54.740 I want this to be a channel to get more prospects and to get more 162 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:58.379 business? And I had not decided that until today, James, until until 163 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:00.580 I had to sit in for me, I'll tell you, I was leaning 164 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:03.100 very much, I have been leaning very much toward the thought leadership piece because, 165 00:11:03.139 --> 00:11:07.049 for whatever reason for me, that's been easier. We talked about offline. 166 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:09.809 How like, depending on the things that I the content that I put 167 00:11:09.809 --> 00:11:15.289 out, there's a discernible difference between their response I get a thought leadership piece 168 00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:20.200 and the response I get when I'm talking about what I actually do and who 169 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.639 I actually want to work with. But the I hate to call it a 170 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:28.000 formula, but the sort of framework that you use in the way that you 171 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.230 ask for the business, I think is something that folks that, no matter 172 00:11:33.309 --> 00:11:39.230 what industry are selling into, can use. So one more time, talk 173 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:43.309 us through what that looks like, what that sounds like when you're pitching, 174 00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:48.940 but indirectly how to do it's it's a very thought through strategy and the way, 175 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:52.220 I'll just give you the real life opposed to just giving like a sure 176 00:11:52.419 --> 00:11:54.700 marching like step by step. I just going to tell exactly how we did 177 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:58.860 it. So probably in fall two thousand and sixteen, I sat down with 178 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.570 my team and we had done what we call candidate marking, marketing out people 179 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:07.610 that we had spoken with through email, and we're like, okay, we're 180 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:09.090 going to take that approach and we're going to apply it to Linkedin. And 181 00:12:09.129 --> 00:12:13.730 this was before everyone was like linkedin liked let's all post every day. So 182 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:15.960 we were doing this like we were under the first and we were doing this 183 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.519 better than, I think, pretty much any most services companies we know. 184 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.720 But I didn't see any other recruiters do it or anything else, and we 185 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:24.080 just started doing that. I just set a goal with the team like all 186 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.799 right, guys, I want everyone to mark it out three candidates a week, 187 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.509 and it got to the point are most success we ever had was in 188 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.909 winter two thousand and seventeen. Early two thousand and eighteen, we had a 189 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:41.789 three month period where we signed up over thirty clients due to this strategy. 190 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:43.620 Wow, so that's I mean it just to give you a sense. But 191 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.460 the way we did it was we basically just it was like going fishing. 192 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.299 We put out the bait. This is like, Hey, this is the 193 00:12:50.379 --> 00:12:54.419 the value that we can offer. We tied it into a story about like 194 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:56.700 one of the things we love most is when we see somebody who's super passionate 195 00:12:56.740 --> 00:13:01.009 and hard working. And reminds me of this the candidate that I just spoke 196 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:03.889 with today and she was telling me about her story and how she was able 197 00:13:03.889 --> 00:13:07.490 to persevere through X, Y and Z, and she went to this company, 198 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:09.450 did very well and then at her next company they went through three layoffs 199 00:13:09.450 --> 00:13:13.559 and she made it through that. She made the cuts and this sat in 200 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.200 the other and you humanize it, you make it real and you say like 201 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.879 you're there at and and we've refined it and we continuously change it up. 202 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.320 And that's just for us, but for different industries it's just like if you're 203 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.120 not a recruit, of course you can still do this, you just have 204 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.789 to know how to apply it and SASS. It's very you can. It's 205 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:31.590 very easy to do this and pretty much any industry that if your buyers are 206 00:13:31.669 --> 00:13:35.309 on Linkedin, obviously, but you just have to think about like how can 207 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:41.620 I show my expertise and an indirect way that's just hyper focused on what the 208 00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:43.980 buyer cares about, and that's also that's that, you know, doesn't come 209 00:13:45.019 --> 00:13:48.779 across as a hard cell. I tried the hard cell to. I've I've 210 00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:50.539 done the post off back of the day few years ago. I was just 211 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.139 like secure vision, you know, is a recruitment resource for this, this 212 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:58.850 and that, and starts talking about like what we do, and that really 213 00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:01.809 didn't get us anywhere. But I tell you, pretty much every time I 214 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:03.049 speak of the prospect of like Oh, yeah, I've seen your post for 215 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.210 the last few years, that's why you decided to reach out. Yeah, 216 00:14:07.529 --> 00:14:11.200 definitely works. So okay, so I get it now. And what's crazy 217 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.120 is that it really what you're describing is just like being a good sales person 218 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:20.639 period. Like they any sales person who is winning or who's got it right 219 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.669 is telling a good story. They've figured that part out. Yeah, absolutely, 220 00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:31.470 and and they have figured out how to do that without, you know, 221 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:35.629 boiling down what they do to the nuts and bolts of boiling down what 222 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:39.580 they do to the features and benefits, and it is very what it's very 223 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:41.820 similar to. Reminded me of when you were just saying it. It sounds 224 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:46.259 a lot like a snub speech. Right. So I'm a politician and I 225 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.779 say it's like a young mother that I met in California who was working three 226 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.289 jobs. And you know what, like, you laugh, you left, 227 00:14:54.409 --> 00:14:56.769 but that resonates, right, that resonates now. Now you like you said, 228 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:00.850 it humanizes and you give me so many ideas. I can nowt wait 229 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:03.490 to us feel well of it. Yeah, it is. It really it 230 00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:07.039 works and it's funny. It's like I've suggested this to people that are really 231 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.840 respect that are very prominent on linked in and I just just I love you 232 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.360 talked about want it here. So it's a lot. It's a it's pretty 233 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.799 there's so many like anyone who sells to like, anyone who's influencer and their 234 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:26.070 buyer is in marketing or sales, is kind of perpetuating it. And so 235 00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:28.389 to me it's like, yeah, there's certainly a place for that, but 236 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:33.029 it's like saying that, like cold coin doesn't work because of the tactics on 237 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:37.700 the call like well, why don't we just get created and keep switching something 238 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:39.940 up and make it fun? Right? And like there's there's other ways, 239 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.659 like if you look at there's all sorts of TV shows about small businesses in 240 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.379 the to keep behind the scenes of like a brewery or like an artist, 241 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.850 or they's talked about the process and how they do things and the kind of 242 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:54.169 these behind the scenes thing. That's another great way to do it. Ark 243 00:15:54.250 --> 00:15:56.450 About like behind the scenes, like you know what you guys are doing and 244 00:15:56.570 --> 00:16:02.129 how you make decisions and how you evaluate certain things and how you test certain 245 00:16:02.129 --> 00:16:04.639 things. Like those are all opportunities to engage with the buyer in a way 246 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.519 where you're not just like saying like Hey, this is our service, but 247 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:12.159 you're actually providing some kind of unique value and making it a little bit more 248 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.840 interesting to digest for the right person. And Yeah, so what it gets 249 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.269 less engagement, like that's the other thing. Everyone's so obsessed with likes and 250 00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:25.470 comments, like I would rather get a post with ten likes. Are used 251 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:27.710 to at least right when my strategy was client acquisition sole and Linkedin, it 252 00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:30.909 was like I would rather get a post with ten likes in a comment were 253 00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:36.980 that that engagement is going to turn into business. Didn't have a post with 254 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:38.980 a hundred likes and a hundred comments, and the counter argument to that is 255 00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:41.659 like well, yeah, but you know, you spread the word, you 256 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:42.700 get in front of more people and then they find out about you and like 257 00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:47.210 okay, like sure, I understand that. I'm not saying it's wrong, 258 00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:52.529 I'm just saying I can just speak from my own experience and it's worked quite 259 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:55.970 well. So I just think that it's like, you know, it's something 260 00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:59.929 where we have to whenever something gets to the point where it's like created, 261 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:03.359 it's like it's considered like sacred within the realm of like sales or marketing, 262 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.400 that's exactly when you have to start questioning it and figure out, like how 263 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.400 can I get ahead, because everybody is doing the shit right. Everybody wants 264 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.680 to be a thought leader. Now. Everybody's publishing content. Right. Well, 265 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.710 not everyone, but like a much bigger percentage of people are, sure, 266 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:21.869 right. So it's like, honestly, there's never been a better time 267 00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:27.190 than to sell your services on Linkedin content there right now, because nobody is 268 00:17:27.309 --> 00:17:30.660 doing it. Yeah, nobody's just coming out there just saying like hey, 269 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:34.420 like I just had this great success story, sincially a little bit of a 270 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:37.819 case study. Put it in there. If you're dealing with this, I 271 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:40.019 love to chat with you. Feel free to hit me up. Yeah, 272 00:17:40.099 --> 00:17:41.500 yeah, I can think of a couple of organizations that come to mind that 273 00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:45.849 I've seen doing it, and I was like shock and disappointment at and disappointed 274 00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:49.369 at how little engagement that they got, because the way that these books did 275 00:17:49.369 --> 00:17:53.769 it was was brilliant and that the only the only sin that committed was at 276 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:59.640 the end of telling this story, there was a call to action and Okayo, 277 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.480 which likes the term, people out, but it's like I still really 278 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.240 I stand what they did. I'm a fan of it, I believe in 279 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:08.720 it and, like I said, yeah, I'll look out this coming see 280 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.190 that's that's it's okay, though, right, like if k, let's say 281 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:15.230 that only like a few people engage with it, but it gets in front 282 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:18.710 of a buyer at the right time, they're going to full up on that. 283 00:18:19.269 --> 00:18:22.190 And that's the thing. It's like when I was cold calling, I 284 00:18:22.309 --> 00:18:23.630 were not back in the day, when I was an Stdr, I was 285 00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:29.740 doing like a hundred cold calls a day and a successful day was having three 286 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:33.460 meeting set. Yep, who successful day was a three percent success ratio, 287 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:37.339 right, and you just have to train your mind to work in that way 288 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:41.730 when you're in sales. and to me, when I would get low engagement, 289 00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:45.289 like I didn't really care because, okay, yeah, most people didn't 290 00:18:45.289 --> 00:18:48.490 seem to want to engage with it, but the few that did become paying 291 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:52.009 customers and that that was a whole other thing. It's like like it be 292 00:18:52.170 --> 00:18:57.440 considered shortsighted. No, it's not. These are real relationships that, right, 293 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:02.759 are with me, like I have really amazing relationships with all these companies 294 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.359 and that's going to be with me for the rest of my career, in 295 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.759 my rest of my life. That's incredibly valuable. Like I have infinite amount 296 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.910 of options because of the strategy, you know. So I don't know, 297 00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:15.430 it's just a give or take, right. I think it just always comes 298 00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:22.069 down to what what objective do you have, and just constantly testing things to 299 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:25.339 try to figure out, like what's the most effective strategy to get there? 300 00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:29.460 So that's it, guys. If you're taking notes, know why you're there, 301 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:33.180 tell a story and lean in. So what you want to get out 302 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:37.940 of the relationship? There know that it's been textual. There's a ride and 303 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:41.569 a wrong way. We just talked a lot about the right way. So 304 00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:47.210 reconcile with yourself and your soul that you are in fact the sales person and 305 00:19:47.450 --> 00:19:51.890 the sales people sell and that have done right. It really isn't something that 306 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.359 you should ever have to regret or downplay or look or, you know, 307 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.680 have looked down on. So thank you for laying this out for us. 308 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.359 I, like I said, I was just was. It was highly anticipated, 309 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.759 seem, on my show today, and now that I've had a chance 310 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.750 of successfully pick your brain, it's time for you to tell us about what 311 00:20:07.869 --> 00:20:11.190 you are putting in it. So, James, talk about a learning resource 312 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:15.470 that you have engaged with here recently that you know is informing your approach with 313 00:20:15.589 --> 00:20:19.910 it has just got you excited these days. You know, I could just 314 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:23.940 give a book recommendation, but I'm going to try to go and give something 315 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:27.460 a little bit deeper than that. I think that, honestly, my strategy 316 00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:33.099 my whole career really for the last ten years, has been to constantly put 317 00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:37.529 myself in situations where I feel stretched, that I'm doing things beyond what I 318 00:20:37.650 --> 00:20:42.490 know how to do. In just really just get myself uncomfortable and I kind 319 00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:45.930 of made a commitment to myself for the next ten to fifteen years to always 320 00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:48.890 be in an uncomfortable place in my career, always biting off just a little 321 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.720 bit more than I could chew. So I think in terms of like what 322 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.759 kind of information repels me forward or what I use as a resource, is 323 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.920 just experiences in general traveling. I've lived in a lot of different countries. 324 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.670 When I started secure vision, I also moved to Europe with my girlfriend. 325 00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:07.109 We were traveling around to different countries as I started the company and that taught 326 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:11.789 me just so much about life and give me so much perspective. And whenever 327 00:21:11.390 --> 00:21:15.630 there's been a big decision in my life and I wasn't sure if I should 328 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.579 go for it, I've always just gone for it and chosen the uncomfortable path. 329 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:23.180 That just forces me to grow and I think that that's you know, 330 00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:29.140 it's there's a time to listen to other people and to to pick up a 331 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:32.819 book and to read, but there's another time where just make a strong decision 332 00:21:33.170 --> 00:21:36.609 that's going to force you to grow and experience it in real life. You 333 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:37.730 got to put down the phone and at it. Just get out there and 334 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.849 travel and meet New People and just make big decisions that you don't know how 335 00:21:41.890 --> 00:21:47.240 you're going to like figure it out and just go for it and when your 336 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.519 backup is up against the wall, you just you find a way and that's 337 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.960 where the real growth occurs. So to me that's that's kind of been my 338 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.880 strategy for Growth and what I consume is just I try to consume as much 339 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.559 of life as I can and you just try to learn as much as I 340 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.589 can. I love it. Get out there and do and live and be 341 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.230 people. So I know, James, that, just like me, folks 342 00:22:07.309 --> 00:22:11.509 listening and become fast fans of yours, or they're going to want to send 343 00:22:11.549 --> 00:22:15.309 you all kinds of messages about how Vehemli they disagree with you. Whatever the 344 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:18.059 case, let us know. I love it, I hope. So connect 345 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:22.140 with you. So you can hit me up on Linkedin. So my name 346 00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:27.299 is James Mackie, but the twitter the handle is Jimmy Mackie. If you 347 00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:30.410 want to search for me, you can't find me. And then on Instagram 348 00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:36.329 it's James J Macki and I believe it's the the same on twitter. Should 349 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:38.329 I've been calling you Jimmy this whole time. Now. I yeah, it's 350 00:22:38.369 --> 00:22:44.559 just I either one is fine, okay, whatever. Nick, he is 351 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.559 short. First unique was and now we're officially appointed. All right, you'll 352 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.680 have to be on this show another time, because I love, I love 353 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:59.069 a controversial Queen and I love I was I was speaking drag just now, 354 00:22:59.190 --> 00:23:02.230 just for all of your horse who were wondering. But no, I love 355 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:07.109 I love the absence of an Echo Chamber, I love an opposing viewpoint and 356 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:10.589 and out most of all, I love what works, and that's what you 357 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:12.180 talked about today, for really wasn't just, you know, being contrarian for 358 00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:15.859 the sake of it. was, hey, here's what's works for me, 359 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.900 and then concrete examples of how and why it's worked for you. So thank 360 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.740 you so much for that. Like I said, I'm going to be watching 361 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.259 your your content, and we're just gonna have to have you on another time 362 00:23:26.259 --> 00:23:29.890 to talk about some more. Oh Yeah, things that other folks aren't necessarily 363 00:23:29.930 --> 00:23:32.849 talking about. But for now we'll close it out. Thank you so much 364 00:23:32.849 --> 00:23:34.609 change being on the show today. Thank you for having me. This is 365 00:23:34.690 --> 00:23:41.880 a lot of fun. If you are a regular listener of B Tob Growth. 366 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.880 Odds are you might enjoy sales success stories with Scott Ingram as well well. 367 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.640 This year, thanks to a partnership with outreach and sales hacker, our 368 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:55.829 friend Scott Ingram is making the live stream of his sales success summit available for 369 00:23:55.990 --> 00:24:00.630 free. The event is on October fourteen and fifteen, featuring thirteen presentations and 370 00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:06.750 five panels, all presented by top performing be tob sales professionals. You can 371 00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:11.859 check it out and register at top one DOT FM live. That's top the 372 00:24:11.900 --> 00:24:14.779 number one DOT FM LIVE