1124: Why Do We Still Struggle with Workplace Engagement? w/ Debbie McGrath

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.639 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.589 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.109 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.989 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:27.460 sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for 6 00:00:27.579 --> 00:00:31.820 B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner 7 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:35.659 truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our 8 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:40.689 guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.689 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. 10 00:00:44.929 --> 00:00:49.929 They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing be 11 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.600 tob companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 12 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.359 of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also 13 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.880 one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and 14 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.590 marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. 15 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:07.430 Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over 16 00:01:07.469 --> 00:01:19.299 the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome 17 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:23.780 back to be tob growth. I am your host for today's episode, Nikki 18 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:26.459 I bey, with weak fish media guys. I've got with me today Debbie 19 00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:30.780 McGrath, who is founder of hrcom. Debbi, how you doing today? 20 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:34.650 I'm great, Nikki. Harry you I'm doing. Wow. I'm still for 21 00:01:34.730 --> 00:01:38.650 excited to talk to you just there's so much that is happening right now at 22 00:01:38.689 --> 00:01:47.439 this inflection point of marketing and how that plays into recruitment, retention and all 23 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:52.239 things hr and you just got a well of experience and knowledge to share those 24 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:53.920 today, and in particular, we're going to be talking about why folks still 25 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:59.239 struggle with engagement. But before we get into all of that, W I'd 26 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.590 love it if you would just give us a little bit of background on yourself 27 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:06.430 and what you and the folks at hrcom are up to these days. Sure, 28 00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:08.949 Nick. So, first of all, I founded hrcom twenty years ago, 29 00:02:09.550 --> 00:02:13.710 which, believe it or not, was before video even existed on the 30 00:02:13.789 --> 00:02:19.020 Internet. So lots has changed in that relatively short time frame that I started 31 00:02:19.060 --> 00:02:23.180 hrcom, but currently we have one point seven five million members from around the 32 00:02:23.259 --> 00:02:27.939 world, with a heavy concentration in the North American market, and what we 33 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:32.449 do is we help them to create engaged and inspired workplaces. What we do 34 00:02:32.930 --> 00:02:38.289 is help the HR professional in their career to maximize their potential, navigate their 35 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:43.610 careers and, in return, inspire the workplaces that they contribute to each and 36 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:49.159 every day. We understand that there's a large opportunity ahead of us to make 37 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.080 sure that the HR professionals have the right skills and competencies to do their job. 38 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:57.199 We are truly committed to helping them do a better, better job. 39 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.069 Myself Personally, I've been in the HR space for over thirty years, twenty 40 00:03:02.110 --> 00:03:08.310 years at the helm of hrcom, but always passionate about helping HR professionals that 41 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:13.340 smarter and better at their job. And really what we're going to talk about 42 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:17.180 today's engagement and what that also means is measuring what they're good at and what 43 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:22.060 matters. I love it and I'm so glad we're going to dig into this. 44 00:03:22.419 --> 00:03:25.219 I think that I don't know that there are very many other resources that 45 00:03:25.300 --> 00:03:30.889 are geared specifically at supporting HR professionals and I think that the the sometimes the 46 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:36.289 sad reality of that role can end up being, you know, seen so 47 00:03:36.409 --> 00:03:39.169 much, as you know, in administrative sort of role, I mean, 48 00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:43.400 which it which it does involve, that people forget that these are still folks 49 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.360 that want to be inspired, that have passion and career aspirations and and that 50 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.840 we need to speak to them and for them in this same kind of way. 51 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.680 So the space that hrcom fills, I think, is really important. 52 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:59.229 So if you had real quick just to frame up the conversation, give us 53 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:04.110 a sort of quick overview of the state of things as it pertains to these 54 00:04:04.270 --> 00:04:10.780 these HR professionals and and we're sort of the hiccups are when it comes to 55 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:16.379 measuring the ex varience of employees, contractors, Alumni, just folks along that 56 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:19.939 chain for us. Okay, so we're spending a lot of time talking about 57 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:26.009 what we call the human experience. It's a broader topic than employee engagement, 58 00:04:26.449 --> 00:04:30.610 because it's Nikki says, we believe that if you are looking at the whole 59 00:04:30.810 --> 00:04:34.930 experience, you've got to measure the perception of the contractors in your workplace, 60 00:04:35.089 --> 00:04:40.759 the employees in your workplace, the candidates that apply to your workplace and the 61 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:46.600 alumni that potentially could come back to your workplace. So engagements a term that's 62 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.000 been around for a long time and unfortunately, even with the advent of all 63 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:55.990 these technology not much has been done to raise the bar and have more people 64 00:04:55.990 --> 00:05:00.829 productive or engaged at work each and every day. So we feel that this 65 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:05.870 is predominantly an HR issue. Hr has to be more accountable and responsible for 66 00:05:06.029 --> 00:05:12.819 measuring the engagement in their organization across all those four stakeholders that we talked about 67 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:17.300 and until they can actually measure where it currently sick exists and know what the 68 00:05:17.379 --> 00:05:24.449 issues are, they can't possibly put any proactive measurements or tools in place to 69 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:30.889 help improve the engagement or productivity of people in the workplace. It makes a 70 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:33.689 question. I'm super curious about this because I guess at my sort of level 71 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:36.639 of woman or my experience level of the way, the way that I've engaged 72 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:42.000 with H has been through here's how you sign up for our healthcare and now 73 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.680 we're having an exit interview. So now that I'm constantly there and we're going 74 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:51.589 to say I'm just saying, like the fact that you mentioned candidates through alumni. 75 00:05:51.629 --> 00:05:56.990 I think is really important, as I'm really interested in in what exactly 76 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:01.870 some of those other touch points are along that journey. Well, let's start 77 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:05.379 at the beginning. So let's talk about the candidates experience, right, so 78 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:09.779 I happened to sit on the talent board, which is a not for profit 79 00:06:09.939 --> 00:06:15.379 that just focuses on the candidate experience and we have several hundred thousand people who 80 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:20.850 participate in employee surveys every year, telling employers, mostly the fortune one thousand 81 00:06:20.889 --> 00:06:26.009 in the US, but some global, about what it's like to apply to 82 00:06:26.050 --> 00:06:30.050 various companies throughout the world. And what we do know is that the net 83 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.879 promoter score, which is a very impactful measurement tool, tells us that that 84 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:39.759 application process is not ideal, okay, and that we are annoying a lot 85 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:46.519 of the candidates, potentially good hires or customers that could be working or using 86 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.310 your company's products and services. So if you're treated very, very poorly, 87 00:06:50.709 --> 00:06:55.949 and let's just pick any brand, okay, if you're treated really, really 88 00:06:56.069 --> 00:07:01.180 poorly in an application process, you're less likely to promote that brand or shop 89 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:06.180 in that ran again. Right, if you're not even acknowledged through the interview 90 00:07:06.259 --> 00:07:10.300 process and you firmly believe that you have the skills to do that job. 91 00:07:10.899 --> 00:07:14.620 You don't think as highly of that brand or company or place to work as 92 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:18.649 you did before you started that employment process. Right. So helping recruiters in 93 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:26.009 this instance better manage the application process, measure what their net promoter score is 94 00:07:26.329 --> 00:07:30.439 in the candidate apply role is essential because if you don't measure what it is 95 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:35.439 and what the candidate perception is, it's going to have lots of negative impact 96 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.959 on your ability to create a brand that's worth working for. It's going to 97 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:46.230 show up on your glass door ratings people talking about the process and not being 98 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:49.790 a positive experience. I think it's so powerful that you, as a leader 99 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:55.589 in this space, having having founded HRCOM and having had all this this experience 100 00:07:56.589 --> 00:08:01.699 with the many different functions under the sort of HR umbrella, are taking ownership 101 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:03.180 of this. I have to tell you what. I've had a few conversations 102 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.980 this week and last week leading up to a couple of conferences having to do 103 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.970 with with HR and and recruitment professionals, and a lot of those competitions have 104 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:20.449 been with marketers and so you've said pretty on an ambiguously right that this is 105 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:24.569 something that is up to hr to to own in a lot of ways, 106 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.240 and what I've been talking to these marketers about is, you know, how 107 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:35.399 who owns it in and what part of this journey right does marketing or recruitment 108 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.919 marketers in particular, need to take ownership of in their own right? So 109 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:45.590 my question is, to what extent do those two disciplines need to collaborate? 110 00:08:45.629 --> 00:08:48.990 Are you seeing that a lack of alignment and collaboration? There is an issue, 111 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:52.309 and what do we do? Well, it is an issue so nature 112 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.179 to come. We do a lot of primary research and we have a research 113 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:00.740 report out on the state of recruitment marketing which you can download from free from 114 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:05.340 hrcom at any given time. But it does clearly indicate that there is two 115 00:09:05.379 --> 00:09:11.570 things that are wrong with the recruitment marketing position within an HR department. One 116 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:15.049 is that these people do not have the skills or the training to do the 117 00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:20.049 job and they were brought up as recruiters, not as marketing people. Right 118 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:28.480 to they haven't built relationships with their marketing department that is collaborative in nature and 119 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.039 can help both of them with so they feel very intimidated by their marketing people. 120 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.159 They feel that they try to put them under control. They don't let 121 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.629 them do the things that they need to do to promote their employment brand. 122 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:43.110 But the reality is they haven't built the trust they need. So those are 123 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:48.190 two very important facts that we found, which is all pointing to a skills 124 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:52.230 gap within the HR department. For sure, for sure. So how do 125 00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:56.460 we how do we address that? I mean do we hire for a different 126 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:01.340 skill set and in recruitment marketing, or do we make their training more inclusive 127 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.139 of these skills that we're talking about once we get them on board? Well, 128 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:07.610 there isn't a lot of these people with these skills available, so you 129 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:11.889 have to train them. So marketings got to invest in some training for these 130 00:10:11.929 --> 00:10:16.090 HR people and Hur people have to be open to idea and new ideas, 131 00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:22.240 new skills and new competencies. Yeah, other than other than marketing. What 132 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:30.720 other relationships do HR professionals and HR leaders need to build within an organization to 133 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.519 improve the experience? We are talking about, at the end of the day, 134 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.230 engagement experience. So along the the journey of a candidates would employed to 135 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.350 an alumni to a contractor like you spoke about. Huh, where else can 136 00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:46.470 we sort of fill gaps? There we're so we talked only but when one 137 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:48.909 of those four areas of the business. Right. So we just took the 138 00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:54.019 candidates, right. So, like you started this conversation about your interaction with 139 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:58.980 HR people. Unfortunately, that's a lot of companies interaction with HR people. 140 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:05.889 So it's also equipping all of hur people with the ability to have meaningful career 141 00:11:05.970 --> 00:11:11.210 development conversations with the employees throughout their life. So it's not just hire them 142 00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:16.210 and then fire them, it's the whole career development. Setting expectations and goal 143 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:22.120 les for people on a regular basis, continuous performance management and feedback. All 144 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.799 of those things are really, really essential and the roles that HR people play 145 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.000 in developing their human capital, and I love this saying their potential, right. 146 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.269 I love this. I love this what you just because, again, 147 00:11:33.309 --> 00:11:37.549 my fears was was a salesperson, right. And so the people who I'm 148 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:41.950 engaging with in terms of career path and having those kinds of meaningful conversations are 149 00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:46.070 folks who really are kind of too busy and who are kind of too self 150 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:50.820 interested to really have that conversation in a way that serves me, the way 151 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.259 that are serves any employee, the way that it would if it were the 152 00:11:54.379 --> 00:11:58.379 HR professional having those conversations. I think you're absolutely right and that's kind of 153 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:01.049 what I was getting at. So there's the relationship that you talked about HR 154 00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:05.409 folks building with marketing, and then here we just identified. That's for the 155 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:09.529 for candidates. And then when you look at the employee part of the journey, 156 00:12:09.649 --> 00:12:13.090 then there's a relationship with the respective disciplines, right, whoever, whether 157 00:12:13.169 --> 00:12:16.960 it's sales or, you know, engineering or whatever, making sure that that, 158 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.759 if not just their their floor manager that they're having these career conversations with. 159 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.120 I think that's how retention happens, right yeah, and I think that's 160 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:31.429 how satisfaction and engagement happens. Now, what about this next step? This 161 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:35.389 is the alumni part of the puzzle. Talk about what that interaction needs to 162 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:39.830 be. Okay, if I could just step back one session and say for 163 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:46.100 them, lay perspective, two things very clear. One is they need to 164 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:52.019 be able to measure what matters to them and their job and have clear goals, 165 00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:56.899 objections and KPIS. Okay. So if an employee doesn't have that, 166 00:12:56.059 --> 00:13:00.970 they're not going to be successful in achieving what they need to get done and 167 00:13:01.049 --> 00:13:05.690 they won't know what success or engagement works like. Okay, so so, 168 00:13:05.009 --> 00:13:11.490 but that concept also applies to other people within the organization. So the contingent 169 00:13:11.610 --> 00:13:15.960 workforce that shows up every day. Maybe it's the people in your cafeteria that 170 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.080 serves food, it might be even cleaners at night, or maybe be a 171 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.039 bunch of consultants that are working on a big project you have. They also 172 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.950 need that. Okay, HR, we do a really bad job of saying, 173 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.190 oh, those are somebody else's employees, their responsibility, but the reality 174 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:39.950 is they're interfacing with your employees and on your deliverables and your accountable for them 175 00:13:39.110 --> 00:13:43.460 making their goals. So don't forget the contingent workforce. O, hell yeah, 176 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:46.860 I did. I left out the the the contractors or the contingent workforce 177 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:50.460 as you as you turn them. It's absolutely right, especially when we're in 178 00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:56.850 an environment where so many teams are remote and those remote teams are comprised almost 179 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:01.850 entirely a lot of the time of a contingent workforce or of contract employees. 180 00:14:01.129 --> 00:14:07.570 And you know, you can really see engage meant fall off because sometimes a 181 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:11.919 lot of time the remote teams don't even have an HR department or an HR 182 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.840 professional on staff, and so you sort of they are getting. Everybody has 183 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.519 some form of HR on staff. They may not be in the same building, 184 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.909 but they're all available through a zoom call or like. Very small companies 185 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:30.870 may have an HR department of one, but they all have somebody responsible for 186 00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:33.509 the people management side of their business, right, and those folks just need 187 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:39.539 to understand what the actual expectation is relative to that organization. Yeah, I 188 00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:41.539 think you're so right, don't I do want to make sure we hit this 189 00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:46.659 fourth one, though. Tell us about what that HR relationship, instead of 190 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:50.740 responsibilities, looks like when it comes to engagement and the alumni, right. 191 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:52.649 So, so every day we leave we lose good people, right. We 192 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:58.330 lose them predominately because of bad managers, but we lose them for life instances, 193 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.690 mobility issues a whole bunch of other areas. So many of these alumni 194 00:15:01.730 --> 00:15:07.360 are eligible to be rehired or be boomerangs and come back into the workforce, 195 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.000 right. So we have to have a way of keeping in touch with them, 196 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:16.399 communicating to them other opportunities that are available and encouraging them to come back 197 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:22.110 or to recommend other people to come down. Right. So Char's job is 198 00:15:22.190 --> 00:15:28.830 to build that talent pool of potential alumnis that are maybe subject matter experts. 199 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.750 You know something that could that be is for onboarding, training, continuity and 200 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:37.820 their job or just having them come back in a different role. Yeah, 201 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:39.980 I think it's the right I think that's an untapped resource. There's so many 202 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:45.860 organization is that I've worked for that I still so happy about what they do 203 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:50.450 and still believe so much in, you know my positive experience there, but 204 00:15:50.529 --> 00:15:56.250 who never know it because there is no channel that's direct to them. I 205 00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:58.049 mean there's there's, you know, third party sites where I could go and 206 00:15:58.129 --> 00:16:00.929 review them and things like that, and there's one off conversations that I could 207 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:04.279 have with folks on Linkedin if they ask me what my experience was like at 208 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:08.720 this organization or the next. But this idea of it being a function of 209 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:14.360 an HR professional and HR department to keep up with that and it's really tap 210 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.960 into that resource, I think is really powerful. It's a charge job. 211 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.190 Unfortunately, when you get into smaller companies where it's the Department of one they 212 00:16:22.230 --> 00:16:26.669 can't possibly do all this work effectively. Sure it's HR is a complex area 213 00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:33.580 of the business, so you're only going to see really great leadership development programs, 214 00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:38.299 really great attention to retention in larger companies where people have the data and 215 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.659 the resources to put proactive plans in place. For sure, super hard and 216 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:48.289 small businesses, yeah, yeah, but we're worth investing in when you when 217 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:49.690 you can, for sure. Gosh, thank you so much for the way 218 00:16:49.730 --> 00:16:53.090 that you laid this out. You certainly taught me a thing or seven. 219 00:16:53.570 --> 00:16:57.690 So I was super glad that you came to do this with us today and 220 00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:00.960 we'll have to have you back on because there's so many more questions that I 221 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.720 think our listeners, those folks out there trying to grow companies, could stand 222 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.720 to gain from you. But now that I've successfully picked your brain and see 223 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.400 what I could get out of it, it's time, debby, for you 224 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.200 to tell us about what you are putting it it. So talk to us 225 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.710 about a learning resource that you engage with. It's either of you in forming 226 00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:22.630 your approach. This just got you excited these days. Well, two things 227 00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:25.670 that I'd like to recommend to our audience. One is the book called measure 228 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.150 what matters. So it is written by John Doer, one of the top 229 00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:34.700 venture capitalists in the California market. This really brought to light how easy and 230 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:41.500 important developing OK ours are for any organization and why you need them if you're 231 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:45.970 going to scale your business. Okay, essential. I see this Okur business 232 00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:52.089 is being the next version of project management. Every organization will use this as 233 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:56.049 an operating system and every organization needs training and education to do this better. 234 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:02.079 That's number one resource. The second this is a prepublished version, but I 235 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:06.400 love this book called it's a manager by Gallop. It is in mark and 236 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.920 I think it came now, maybe July first, but that while ago. 237 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.750 But this is a simple guide for any manager who doesn't have strong HR skills 238 00:18:15.589 --> 00:18:21.869 to figure out what is their role in helping develop and grow their employees. 239 00:18:22.349 --> 00:18:25.349 So, and I love that you have actual books as well. I have 240 00:18:25.470 --> 00:18:29.220 to be honest with you, I listen to a lot of the audio books. 241 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:32.940 So so somebody that comes in here with fingers between pages. I respect 242 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.819 that all day long and I know that folks who are listening just like me 243 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:41.299 have become fast fans of you. As you are such a wealth of knowledge, 244 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:42.089 people are going to want to keep up with you. Tell us, 245 00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:45.650 Debbie, tell us how folks can connect with you. The easiest way to 246 00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:51.890 connect with me is by email, so d McGrath at hrcom, but I 247 00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:57.359 can also be found on facebook or Linkedin and twitter. Twitter is demograph perfect. 248 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.279 All right. Thank you so much. Like I said, thanks for 249 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.359 coming on. I can't wait to have you on to get in the future 250 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.839 and and tackle something else and hopefully empower more folks out they're trying to go 251 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.990 businesses. Is specifically more HR folks out there just trying to get the job 252 00:19:11.069 --> 00:19:17.509 done right. Thanks again, debby. Thank Nicky. We totally get it. 253 00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:21.349 We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a 254 00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:25.500 lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BDB growth big three, 255 00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:30.140 a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire 256 00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:34.779 week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That 257 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:38.089 sweet fish Mediacom Big Three