1104: Who Owns Recruitment Marketing? w/ Alex Kevork

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.160 There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:09.310 to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients 3 00:00:09.550 --> 00:00:19.390 to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweetphish MEDIACOM. You're listening 4 00:00:19.429 --> 00:00:24.179 to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed 5 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:27.460 names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vanner, truck and Simon Senek, 6 00:00:27.820 --> 00:00:31.940 but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the 7 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:36.689 bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests 8 00:00:36.689 --> 00:00:41.130 are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 9 00:00:41.130 --> 00:00:45.770 experimenting with tactics. They're building the fastest growing be tob companies in the world. 10 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:49.289 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweetfish media, a 11 00:00:49.409 --> 00:00:53.000 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of 12 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.280 this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories 13 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:00.920 from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs 14 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:04.349 of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 15 00:01:04.989 --> 00:01:14.829 maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be to be growth. 16 00:01:14.909 --> 00:01:18.579 I am your host for today's episode, Nikki Iby, with sweetfish media. 17 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:23.340 Guys, I've got with me today Alex Kevork who heads up product marketing 18 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:26.140 and be to be marketing at monster. A likex, how you doing to 19 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:29.939 day? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Good, good. 20 00:01:29.980 --> 00:01:32.700 I'm super excited to talk about what we're going to get into today. We're 21 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:37.209 going to be talking about recruitment marketing, who owns it, what some of 22 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:41.730 the overlaps are and just some best practices. I loved. I'm excited to 23 00:01:41.810 --> 00:01:45.010 dig it. But before we do, Alex, I would love it if 24 00:01:45.049 --> 00:01:48.120 you would just give us a little bit of background on you yourself and what 25 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.159 you and the folks of monster have been up to these days. Yeah, 26 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.159 you bet it's. It's pretty exciting stuff. So I've been in tax for 27 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.879 plus or thirteen, fourteen years now. I've been in the startup space a 28 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.709 lot, but but monster is really exciting because we have that feel right. 29 00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:07.430 We're an older company. We've been around for twenty five years. We were 30 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:14.270 one of the first five hundred URL's ever registered on the worldwide web and we 31 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:20.259 existed back then to kind of fix a broken system where people were scrambling through 32 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:23.500 newspapers, calling on companies trying to get jobs and sending in their resumes into 33 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:27.860 these black holes and, you know, knocking on doors. Essentially it was 34 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:32.289 a total nightmare. So monster came in to fix that broken process and brought 35 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:38.289 the job hunt onto the web. And over that time we have evolved a 36 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:40.289 lot and we focused in some of the right places in some of the wrong 37 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:45.400 places, and now we're at a point where where the job board world is 38 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:51.120 kind of commoditized and it's become essentially a nightmare again. The the candidates feel 39 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:55.639 as though they are a product that's being sold to employers, and the employers 40 00:02:55.719 --> 00:03:00.110 feel like they're not getting great quality and they're having trouble finding the right people 41 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:04.150 and nobody feels like there's a platform that's really on their side to help them 42 00:03:04.270 --> 00:03:07.110 through this really important phase of their life. And so what we're doing is 43 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:12.229 we're trying to reinvent that again and and we've got a great team heading up 44 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:19.620 doing this. And in reinventing that, we help candidates really showcase themselves in 45 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:23.580 a way that shows who they truly are. There real selves and helps employers 46 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:27.969 also do the same. And so that what that does. It enables a 47 00:03:28.530 --> 00:03:31.770 better fit between the candidate and the employer and really helps them find the right 48 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:35.610 fit for for what they're looking for and what they care about. And so 49 00:03:35.770 --> 00:03:38.930 that is more than just a better job board. That is really reinventing the 50 00:03:39.050 --> 00:03:46.360 way we envision the job search and candidate search experience and connecting the right people 51 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:50.080 for the right fit. So it's really exciting and we're headed in a great 52 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.960 direction. Yeah, no, I agree everything you said. My favorite part 53 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:58.830 of it is the spirit behind it is so focused on the experience of the 54 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:01.590 people on both ends, who were who are engaging with the platform right. 55 00:04:01.990 --> 00:04:08.189 It isn't just about can we build newer, better features to sort of break 56 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:11.900 through in that way, but it's about like understanding that at the heart of 57 00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:15.939 it is creating a better experience, like you mentioned, and making people's lives 58 00:04:15.980 --> 00:04:18.699 better. I think a lot of the time when we go to our daytoday 59 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:23.699 lives, a lot of people are kind of shying away from saying out loud 60 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:28.009 and embracing the fact that, yeah, what you do has the potential to 61 00:04:28.449 --> 00:04:30.370 change someone's life. Maybe it feels like your daytoday, but the fact that 62 00:04:30.689 --> 00:04:34.449 everything you tapped into kind of for me, sounds like it has potentially get 63 00:04:34.449 --> 00:04:38.089 into. All of that is what makes it all so worth while and I'm 64 00:04:38.089 --> 00:04:41.720 really glad to have you here to talk about this, because it's going through 65 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:45.000 a lot of changes right now. We're at an inflection point in all of 66 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.959 be tob I would say, but certainly when it comes to certain aspects of 67 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:54.629 marketing. So when it comes to recruitment marketing, who owns this function? 68 00:04:54.870 --> 00:04:58.430 What does that look like? Just make this clear, for is that like? 69 00:04:58.629 --> 00:05:01.149 What is recruitment marketing a anyway? Yeah, well, so that's exactly 70 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:04.350 it. You kind of have to define what recruitment marketing is before you can 71 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:10.339 say who owns it. And recruitment marketing and employer branding really tie obviously very 72 00:05:10.379 --> 00:05:14.779 closely together. But if you think about it, recruitment marketing and marketing in 73 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:18.620 general is the tactical part of getting your message out to the people that you 74 00:05:18.699 --> 00:05:24.209 want to see it right. So it's essentially the manifestation of your employer brand 75 00:05:24.610 --> 00:05:29.529 out to the market, and that's marketing. So it's really about building the 76 00:05:29.649 --> 00:05:33.529 exceptional experience with your brand that expands beyond just recruiting and trying to trying to 77 00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:40.319 hire people right. So the employer brand is where you've got that. You 78 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.279 know, it's your value proposition's who you are as a brand. Is that 79 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.319 that met that image that you want to convey up to the market, and 80 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.310 that's the why, that's the why of your company, of your brand. 81 00:05:49.750 --> 00:05:54.990 Recruitment marketing is really the how. How can I make a great experience and 82 00:05:55.310 --> 00:06:00.149 and engage the right people to see this brand and become essentially part of my 83 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:06.939 company? So employer branding is interesting because that's where you're going to see lots 84 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:13.420 of cross functional parts of the organization becoming or investing time into the employer brand. 85 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:16.459 This is hr this is marketing, this is the sea level, this 86 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:23.529 is the leadership team who essentially build your employer brand. But marketing does have 87 00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:27.689 a heavy investment there. And then the question is, now I'm a recruiter, 88 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:30.610 who's going to own the recruitment marketing of that? Where now I'm trying 89 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:35.600 to convey a message to potential candidates so we find excellent people to come work 90 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.199 for the company. And a lot of times there is the perception that marketing 91 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:46.959 kind of start starts to step away from that and recruitment marketers are left holding 92 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.550 the torch to try and, you know, campaign or find the right people. 93 00:06:51.310 --> 00:06:57.829 And if you try and keep recruitment marketing couple to employer brand, you're 94 00:06:57.829 --> 00:07:00.939 going to have more investment from the marketers and that is really helpful right because 95 00:07:00.980 --> 00:07:06.339 it not left alone to trying to build your own campaigns or you're not left 96 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:12.579 to hoping that what you're doing aligns with the brand and you're not being shunned 97 00:07:12.579 --> 00:07:16.089 off by marketing. And at this it becomes more closely aligned. Granted, 98 00:07:16.370 --> 00:07:20.009 you will have more involvement from marketing, which means they do want to take 99 00:07:20.050 --> 00:07:24.529 more control over the brand and what what the message is and what it looks 100 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:28.209 like. But if you can find the right balance there, it is important 101 00:07:28.250 --> 00:07:33.759 to have the two couple. Today's growth story centers around exactly a SASS company 102 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:40.439 that helps enterprise companies with their incentive compensation. They'd work with search marketing agencies 103 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:45.670 in the past, but they'd had issues with transparency and Roy. They wanted 104 00:07:45.709 --> 00:07:49.310 to improve net new leads via their organic and paid search channels, so they 105 00:07:49.389 --> 00:07:55.470 reached out to directive optimizing search engine market share for exactly what was the top 106 00:07:55.589 --> 00:08:01.139 priority. 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All right, let's get back to the show. 115 00:08:43.870 --> 00:08:48.710 Yeah, a hundred percent, but what happens is, especially you mentioned startups 116 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.710 here at the top of the conversation, I spent a little bit of time 117 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:54.940 in these start up streets and what I observed is, you know, often 118 00:08:56.019 --> 00:09:00.779 the recruiter or recruit meant in a startup is like one person, maybe two 119 00:09:00.820 --> 00:09:03.820 a lot of the time, and then the marketing team has a bit more 120 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.340 resources, depending on the stage that they're at and so, like you said, 121 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:09.009 if if those are on a line, if marketing is doing it something 122 00:09:09.169 --> 00:09:13.730 and recruitment is on on an island all alone, that's how you end up 123 00:09:13.850 --> 00:09:20.610 with a disconnect. Right, folks having a conversation with recruitment about what their 124 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.919 experience is going to be like and then, as it differs from maybe something 125 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:26.639 that marketing was doing at the very beginning, sort of to put the job 126 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.559 out there in terms of the job description and what they can expect overall. 127 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:33.679 With the employer brand like you talked about, and it's it can all get 128 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:39.629 very confusing. So yes, that alignment is extremely important. Talk about once 129 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:41.549 we've defined it, which I think we have right, which is this thing 130 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:46.629 that exists separate from employer branding that is there to sort of talk about what 131 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:50.389 to attract the best talent and talk about what the experience is going to be 132 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.019 like. How can folks best do that? After, after we've got those 133 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:56.019 teams aligned, now, what is the recruitment marketing team got to do to 134 00:09:56.179 --> 00:10:01.860 really nail it? Sure? Well, you have to think about essentially the 135 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:05.580 different stages of it as someone engages with your brand. First and foremost, 136 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:11.169 you want to use recruitment marketing to elevate your brand awareness. Just let people 137 00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:13.970 know that you're out there and let people know that you have a brand and 138 00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:16.490 you have an image and and you have something that you care about. You 139 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:22.919 have a value proposition. So the the experience starts with the awareness, but 140 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.000 then you need to evolve that. So you need to go from awareness to 141 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.440 actually sparking interest and using your employer brand to convey a message that sparks that 142 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.629 interest. So like things like an employer value proposition. We call them evps. 143 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:41.070 That's what starts to spark interest and say, well, this could actually 144 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:45.990 help me find the right fit within this company because it's something I care about. 145 00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:48.789 I'm, you know, people today, especially our purpose driven, and 146 00:10:48.870 --> 00:10:52.940 if you can convey that, that helps the spark that interest and that can 147 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:58.899 compelling evp then brings people from interest into consideration. Okay, I could actually 148 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:03.860 consider working for you. And now it's important for recruitment marketing to step in 149 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.809 to make sure that they have an experience, a great, exceptional experience that 150 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:11.330 helps them find the right fit within your company and actually apply for that. 151 00:11:11.850 --> 00:11:16.049 So it's it's not entirely different from standard marketing, where you're trying to drive 152 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:20.279 awareness, you're trying to trigger your interest, you want to get the person 153 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.679 of the consideration and evaluation phase and then ultimately click that by now button, 154 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:30.919 right, and really this transitioning from buy now to a final right and so 155 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.429 like, like traditional standard marketing, right, there's also this element of understanding 156 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:39.909 who who your audiences and in my experience and new startup streets, a lot 157 00:11:39.909 --> 00:11:41.309 of the time, I think that was one of the things, one of 158 00:11:41.350 --> 00:11:46.750 the twel's when you're like, okay, is there a recruitment marketing team? 159 00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:50.419 was was there a lot of intention behind this, because a lot of the 160 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:58.340 time there's these posts, job postings, where they're talking a lot about perks, 161 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:01.570 right, like we have a pool table, we have Cambucha, right, 162 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:05.169 and they're asking if you're the kind of person who's going to come in 163 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:09.490 and crush your quota. Right. We're talking about for sales people in particular, 164 00:12:09.529 --> 00:12:16.240 right, for instance, and that's that's cool and all, but then 165 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.960 these roles end up having a lot of turnover and I think that this has 166 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.360 something to do with it. I think they're attracting they're not understanding who they 167 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.799 want to attract and what this kind of marketing is going to end the actually 168 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:33.389 attract, and so I think that's one of the ways where if we have 169 00:12:33.029 --> 00:12:39.389 a stronger effort from more experienced people, with standard marketing having a more influence 170 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:41.629 on what recruitment marketing is actually doing. Talk a little bit about that for 171 00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:45.539 us. Yeah, I mean so that it's interesting that you bring that up 172 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:48.500 because at the beginning, when I was talking about what we're trying to do 173 00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:52.580 here at monster, it is trying to eliminate that from both sides. That 174 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:58.539 fake until you make it approach right. So a lot of turnover on a 175 00:12:58.730 --> 00:13:01.370 job that has a description that sounds amazing, then there's clearly some kind of 176 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:05.889 disc int there and what we want to help people do is give them the 177 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:09.889 opportunity to go beyond just a job description. Right, job descriptions are evolving, 178 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:15.600 in the way that we convey a job is evolving, and so both 179 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.039 on the candidate and employer side, it's important to think of different ways to 180 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.279 do this outside of just getting creative with the job title or some bullets in 181 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.080 a job description or talking about perks. There's a lot of research out there 182 00:13:26.190 --> 00:13:30.389 that that says that people are kind of over the perk thing and they really 183 00:13:30.429 --> 00:13:33.830 care about. People are starting to care about k again. People are starting 184 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:37.629 to care about just knowing that they're going to have an impact on the organization. 185 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.779 People are starting to care that the organization is purpose driven. I mean 186 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:45.940 that is something that really drives people right now. People want to make a 187 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:48.700 difference, whether the playing Ping Pong and drinking beer on Fridays or not. 188 00:13:50.539 --> 00:13:54.980 So I think that's important for people to think about as they as they look 189 00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:58.129 at a job description. So recruitment marketing is changing a lot. There are 190 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:03.490 new ways to engage with people. SMS is is a really easy way for 191 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:09.679 people to connect with a consumer or candidate in the place where they're at and 192 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.720 most likely to respond. Video is an important one. That's becoming more and 193 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:20.759 more popular and we're playing that game to where we enable people to add videos 194 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.110 to job descriptions. And that's not just because we thought it was a neat 195 00:14:24.149 --> 00:14:30.309 feature. That's because this world of recruitment marketing and employer branding is changing. 196 00:14:30.669 --> 00:14:35.230 What's funny is recruitment marketing has been so stuck in the old ages while the 197 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:41.100 rest of the marketing world evolved evolved that candidates we need to treat them like 198 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:46.860 consumers, and consumer they, like most consumers, expect the experiences that they 199 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:52.179 get from other brands, and so that's why there's such a frustration with with 200 00:14:52.490 --> 00:14:56.289 what the job search and with hiring, because it still feels so primitive. 201 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:01.730 So we can evolve that to catch up with the way typical consumer marketing works, 202 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:05.610 it's going to be a better experience for everyone. Yeah, I love 203 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:07.399 it. I know it looks like I'm texting while you're talking, but I'm 204 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.039 taking notes here. I love what you said. People want to make a 205 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:16.840 difference, whether they're playing ping pong and drinking beer on a Friday or not. 206 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:22.309 Amen. Right, like the you just totally summed up what I had 207 00:15:22.389 --> 00:15:24.470 been looking for. It literally every time I went to look for a job 208 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:31.070 in that in that BB space, and it's just so important that people understand 209 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:33.950 that. I mean, I'm not surprised, given what you do, that 210 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:37.139 you were able to so easily tap into that, but that is exactly the 211 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:41.980 kind of thing that that I'm hoping, as you know, be to be. 212 00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:48.059 Sales and marketing go through this and recruitment marketing go through this sort of 213 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:52.769 identity shift. That's one of the things that I hope comes through right where 214 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:56.090 we understand it doesn't have to be binary, right, it doesn't have to 215 00:15:56.169 --> 00:16:00.970 be mutually exclusive, like you can have those fun things and make a difference 216 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.210 at the same time. I think that's who this generation of folks in the 217 00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:07.679 workforce all or at least who we would like to be. So thanks so 218 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.600 much for fleshing that out. There's a million other questions that I would love 219 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.279 to ask you on the subject, but for the sake of respecting your time, 220 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.070 I keep in this concise. I have to ask you, now that 221 00:16:19.149 --> 00:16:21.990 I've picked a brain and see when I coul get out of it. Got 222 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:25.509 To ask you about what you're putting in it, Alex, tell us about 223 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:29.990 and some some resource, some educational resource, that you've been engaging with here 224 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.220 recently that is informing your approach? Or this just got you excited these days? 225 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:38.220 Yeah, sure, so I do. Just in marketing in general, 226 00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:44.460 one of my favorites really is marketing cross. They are just such a great 227 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:51.250 resource and it spans so many different basically just areas of marketing in general. 228 00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:56.769 There are really great firm and and Hanley is one of the heads over there. 229 00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:57.889 I'm sure you've heard of her. But if you haven't check her out, 230 00:16:57.929 --> 00:17:03.799 checkout marketing crops. They're great. I really love ere for industry specific 231 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:10.759 information and I love Scherm as hr m for industry specific information. These are 232 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:15.950 places that I go to to learn and also help ideate on my own. 233 00:17:15.670 --> 00:17:21.269 And then outside of that, the some of the things that just kind of 234 00:17:22.069 --> 00:17:26.670 keep me grounded or moving around being outside. I like to surf a lot 235 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:30.059 and that is one place, the one place in the world where I can 236 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:33.980 go to really clear my head and and also learn that, no matter how 237 00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:37.099 good I feel like I'm getting it something, there can always be that that 238 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:41.619 one wave that kind of humbles you and puts you back back on the ground 239 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:45.730 essentially, and and you know, that's something that I think everyone should be 240 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:48.609 aware of and it helps me kind of keep a level head in the rest 241 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:52.089 of my life and and work. So that's kind of those are my outlets 242 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:56.569 and where I get some information. I love it. Thank you so much 243 00:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.279 for sharing that with us. I love the the waves analogy. I think 244 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.319 about that a lot. I can't I can't swim right. That's all. 245 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:10.880 So there's that. But I was just this past summer I was I was 246 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.190 a myrtle beach and I usually just I just only walk out to the water, 247 00:18:15.349 --> 00:18:18.549 just as far as I can. You know, it's comes up to 248 00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:21.509 my much at my you know, my abdomen, and then I start to 249 00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:25.269 panic right like I've real fear of being submerged in water. But Anyway, 250 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:27.180 so I'm out there. My husbands like come out farther with me, Alma. 251 00:18:27.700 --> 00:18:32.980 So he has my hand and one wave sort of knocks into us and 252 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:33.940 I'm like, I'm going to go back to shore and he says to me, 253 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:38.339 he says it's okay, just, you know, stay like, you 254 00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:45.130 know, hold your ground and get as far as you can until the next 255 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:49.329 wave hits. And it just meant it impacted me in all these ways. 256 00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:52.250 Is like that's what it is. That's what I'm trying to do in life 257 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:53.089 and time, just to get as far as I can to the next wave 258 00:18:53.130 --> 00:18:56.079 hits, and then the fear goes away because then you know that after it 259 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.400 hits, you just go a little bit farther and a little bit farther. 260 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.000 That's where those of us who have to walk in the ocean, though I'm 261 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.039 sure there's other metaphors for ups can swim, but anyway. I know that, 262 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.799 just like me, everyone listening Alex has become a fast fan of yours 263 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.029 and they're going to want to keep up with you. Tell us, tell 264 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:15.710 us how people can connect with you. Sure you can find me on Linkedin. 265 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:21.349 It's just Linkedin, Alex KEVORC. My twitter handle is at a a 266 00:19:21.630 --> 00:19:26.740 Kvo, and those are two great ways to find me. Perfect y'all, 267 00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:27.940 go out and do it. The man knows his stuff. This has been 268 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:30.819 so much fun. I love to have you on to get into the future 269 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.859 to talk even more about some of the things that we missed today, but 270 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:36.980 this has been a black man. You have a good one all right, 271 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:41.170 you too. Thanks so much. Looking forward to the next time. We 272 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.490 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 273 00:19:45.569 --> 00:19:48.970 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BB 274 00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:53.000 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 275 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:59.680 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big 276 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:03.680 Three. That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three