Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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welcome back to BTB growth. I'm dan
Sanchez, my friends call me dan says
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and I'm here with James Carberry, the
founder of Sweet Fish Media to talk
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about thought leadership because we're
still on the journey of learning me,
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learning everything I can about thought
leadership. I've read all the books and
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now I'm trying to interview all the
practitioners, all the experts out
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there on what they have because it's
not just enough to read. Sometimes
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sometimes it's good to have the
conversations, the uh even meet with
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the authors of the books and actually
work out what you think they mean and
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have worked through all the different
methodologies and nuances that don't
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get covered in all the blogs and books
and podcasts you hear even like this
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one, being able to talk to people is a
huge part of this journey and I've been
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loving it. If you're a learner like I
am, you got to do a deep dive like this,
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it's just so much fun. I've been
learning a lot about thought leadership
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and one thing I wanted to circle back
around is an idea that James first
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introduced me to just about a year ago
when he introduced me to this idea
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called collective thought leadership.
And ever since then I've started to
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have eyes to see other people do this
though. I haven't heard anybody else
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talk about like a term that this thing
doesn't really have a name other than
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what I've heard James called collective
thought leadership. So I want to go
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deep into this one aspect that James
has been telling me about and open it
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up a little bit so that you can learn
how to implement it at your own company.
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So James, welcome back to the show,
Thank you man, this is this is gonna be
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a fun conversation. We were we were
really heads down on executing this
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strategy, probably starting about two
years ago, did it for a year, year and
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a half before we kind of decided to
take a different direction with the
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business. But I think it's a really
powerful concept that I think could be
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implemented at any company that's
trying to do thought leadership in a,
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in a unique and novel way. And so I'm
pumped to dive into it. So to kick it
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off, let's define like what it is and
give an example so that people can kind
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of imagine what it is, like what was
the first implementation we saw of it
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at Sweet fish and how did you arrive at
it? Yeah, so, so it started with this
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show actually started with BB growth
and I originally was just trying to
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figure out how can we put out more
content from B to B growth because we
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know that the more content we put out
from the show, there's more advertising
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opportunities, the more quality content
coming out of the show, The better
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experience for the listener because
people come to be to be growth because
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they want really practical insights on
how to do B2B marketing in today's
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world from practitioners that are
actually doing it. So as we started
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thinking about like, Okay, who could we
bring on to? Not just be a guest on
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episodes, but Could we bring on
multiple co hosts of GDP growth? And
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then those co hosts could either do
solo episodes themselves or they could
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go out and interview other
practitioners that they know that are
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operating at a high level with as it
relates to be, be marketing. And so I
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think I invited like 23 people to be co
hosts of GDP growth and it up leveled
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the quality of our content and the
quantity of our content in doing that.
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And uh, the thought being like, Hey, we
have a platform with the show, we're
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producing the content so it's a win for
them to get to be the co host of a top
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100 podcast. But it's also a win for us
because we're getting more content. And
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um, we, you know, we have variety of
different ways that we monetize that
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content both through advertising and
just threw listeners listeners that end
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up working with us because this is an
execution of our content marketing. So
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that's how it started. It started with
me to be growth. We had, I think, I
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think it was right around 20, I think
it was 23 co hosts at one point and
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then decided, man, what could this look
like to actually build media properties
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from scratch using this model of having
multiple co hosts? Uh that would, we
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believed would build a media property
much faster if you had 5, 10, even 15
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industry leaders, all kind of pointing
their audiences back to a particular
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media property. So we did this with
manufacturing with a show called The
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Manufacturing show. We did it with B
two B sales with a show called the B
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two B sales Show. Um We continue doing
it with GDP Growth. We did it with a
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podcast called the cybersecurity
podcast. So we experimented with it in
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in a lot of different ways. And I think
it was really, really good learning man.
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So it's essentially like getting a
bunch of industry leaders together and
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then everybody working on one kind of
media property at a time. And I imagine
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there's a number of different
advantages to that. Why wouldn't they
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want to take that same time and focus
it back on their own property? Like
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what what's the advantage to every
individual? If they're all collectively
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working towards and asked a kind of a
property they don't necessarily have
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full control over. Yeah, that's a great
question. And ultimately, you're
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capitalizing on the reach of other
people, so you can do your own, you
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know, kind of focus if you want to make
the investment to really grow your own
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media property, a media property that
your brand owns and controls. Obviously
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that's what most people do, but you're
going to be limited in terms of the
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reach of that content. If you're over
in a silo doing it on your own, where
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if you go to four or five other
industry leaders that also have reach
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and can access different pockets of the
industry, maybe manufacturing, for
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example, you have somebody that has a
lot to say about Ai or has a lot to say
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about automation, there are different
components of an industry. And so your
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expertise at your company oftentimes
you you don't have the in house
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expertise to be able to speak to other
elements of an industry that people
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would be interested in. And so I think
it it allows you to go a little bit
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wider with content and I think it
allows you to grow an audience much
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faster when you've got other brands
that are winning resources to it. But
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you definitely have to have the mindset
that we're going to go further faster
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if we go together. And not every brand,
I don't even want to say that that's
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right for every brand necessarily. But
certainly a lot of brands don't
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necessarily have that mindset. So it
will never be something they do, which
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makes it a great opportunity for those
that do have that mindset. I think a
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lot of content marketers will have like
some idea of what it means to do. Like
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a content collaboration, right? Which
usually is just with one other company
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or one other person. But this is like
content collaboration on steroids,
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right? Because you're finding all of
the people that, you know, have some
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influence, Maybe not unreachable, they
have so much influence, but, you know,
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our reach, you have contact with or
could get ahold of and have influence
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and then pulling all that influence
together for everybody else's benefit.
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I mean, if I'm promoting a collective
podcast, but so are 12 other people,
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Yes, I'm pushing my audience to
something, but it's not like they
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forget me, it's not like I lose that
audience, they're just checking out
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other people there. But all those 12
are also pushing their audience there
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and maybe maybe they find my episode
and download it to giving me exposure
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to potentially 12 times the size of my
audience. Um for not that much more
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work, just seems like it would really
accelerate things and like you said, go
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farther faster together. What are some
other expressions you've seen this?
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Because obviously we're in podcasting,
so we've, we've tested and played with
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this in the podcast land. Where else
have you seen this done? Yeah, So I
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think books are another play where you
go and get three or four co authors to
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author a book. Each of you have your
name on the front cover of the book,
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but now, instead of just you and your
company promoting the book, you've got
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three or four other voices in the space
that are actively promoting the book as
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well. Um, and so I think a book is a,
is a fantastic execution of collective
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thought leadership. Also, I love it.
I've seen you see that one all the time,
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right? Where people are like co author,
co author and they don't even see co
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author because all like in podcasting
and we say co host, but In a book
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they're just like, I'm the author of
you get almost like 100% of the
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credibility that comes with writing a
book with only like a quarter of the
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amount of work if you have four authors.
Yeah, I think another one and this one,
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this one just popped up in my head. But
I think if if you were to do something
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like a day in the life type of video
content, so almost like a vlog style
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content, if you went in with say five
other brands and said, hey, we've been
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wanting to do this type of video
content, what if we collectively went
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in and paid for a videographer or like,
you know what, The D Rock to Gary V and
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you know, one day of the week, he's
going to follow our ceo around another
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day of the week, they're gonna follow
the ceo of this other company around
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and you know, have, I don't know, five
or six people that are in on that. And
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then I think that could be a really
smart execution two and a way to get in
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the game of video without necessarily
incurring the full expense of
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everything that goes into that. That
would be awesome. I can't, I don't
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think I've ever seen a Youtube channel
implemented that way, but that would
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totally be doable. You can almost
higher for you have to be pretty, I
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think you'd have to be pretty selective
in curating who you want to be a part
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of it. Obviously, you know, like
anything you don't, you don't want
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somebody who's super lame co hosting
your podcast. The book is probably a
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little bit easier to massage because it
can go through, you know, a more
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intense editing process before it sees
the light of day video might be tough.
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You know, if you don't have somebody
that's very charismatic that doesn't
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come across well on video or is never
available. So you can you're never
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getting that content from that person.
That could be tough. But I think if you
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do a proper vetting process and you
frame it up right? I think you'll find
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plenty of companies that would want to
do it with you. Hi, dan Sanchez here
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with a quick break from this episode,
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closer geographic proximity with you
and that would work even if you're
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serving like a specific region, it gets
a little stronger because you can
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literally partner with these people and
do events with them uh with that. It
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could really expand out one of the
things dan that I was, you know, we
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might still do this down the road, but
You know, I think local service
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providers think attorneys, insurance
agents, financial planners, people like
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that if they were to come together say
10 or 15 of those types of folks that
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do business locally. If they started a
show that was focused on sharing
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success stories in their city and they
branded the show,
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you know, something like leaders in
Orlando or you know, something like
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that. You could do a lot of really cool
stuff if each of those 10 people maybe
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you've got and they're non competitive
with one another. So you've got a
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financial advisor, somebody that does
insurance, somebody that is, you know,
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I don't know, there's tons of local
service type businesses, you put all
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those people together and say, hey, for
putting 1000 bucks a month, you get two
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episodes a month and we're going to
pull that money too, create a ton of
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ancillary content to go along and
promote the show. But then you could
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also start to do really cool stuff like
putting ads in airports and on the
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sides of buses and like, and use the
different co hosts as the faces of that
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media property in a very similar way
that you see like news stations do it
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and you're not incurring the full cost
because you're splitting it with the
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other people that are, that are your co
host of that property. So I think a
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local execution of this strategy. Um,
it was something that we were really
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looking at and considering doing at
Sweet fish. We even started a show
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called Atlanta Success and I think we
started one called Orlando Success as
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well. We, you know, lots of ideas, only
limited, limited bandwidth for things
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we can actually execute. But for
anybody listening, if you are a service
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provider that has a high end clientele,
I think this is a fantastic execution
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man. That sounds, it almost makes me
sometimes I'm like, oh, that just
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sounds so good. So doable. I could
almost quit sweet fish and just go and
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execute that. Just gather up everybody
in a specific industry. Let's just pick
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the wedding industry in Minneapolis
where I'm from and I like find wedding
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vendors that all kind of fit your style
and flavor, you know, and then you just
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work together to market the heck out of
the unifying theme and then everybody's
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got their own little nature thing and
I'm like, dude, you would destroy. That
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would be really fun too. I hope
somebody listening to this. I mean the
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beautiful part of it is honestly if
three or four years down the road suite
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fish, we decide to execute on this,
there's no cap on how many local shows
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there can be. And so somebody could
start Denver success or leaders in
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Denver or whatever. And we could come
in three years from now and start
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another local show, working with other
local leaders in the area and then it
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just becomes a game of who can promote,
market the show better and not even
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better. I mean because people could
listen to leaders in Denver and Denver
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success and get value from it. Just
like you know, most people listen to
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weigh more than one podcast. So it's
something where multiple people can win
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by executing this even at a local level
in the same city. So it's the same way
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it's kind of taking what uh in the
business world we call like a joint
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venture and just bring in a bunch of
people together to share and split
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marketing costs. I mean this isn't this
isn't unheard of people have been
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creating like associations or um I
forgot what there's another word for it
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that pulled together money for a
massive advertising budgets. It's just
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that now we're talking about it in a
much more intimate content marketing,
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an inbound marketing style, like in the
outbound marketing style. Like we all
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remember that Got milk campaign, which
was all the farmers pulling together
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their money to drive up the demand for
milk, which everybody remembers that.
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Unfortunately it was unsuccessful
because milk consumption still went
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down. This. Also Though this approach I
think is very conducive to how you and
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I see marketing happening over the next
10 years, which is, it's much more
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centered around a human and less
centered around a corporate logo. And
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so especially for the service
profession, like, you know, insurance
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folks and financial planners and maybe
even the local dentist, like you want
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to know the face behind that brand
because that's that's who you're
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working with. And so doing something
like this allows you to showcase the
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faces of these different people and
then you think about like the different
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in person activations that you can
bring to life as well when you've got
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10 different people that are a part of
the show, doing a quarterly meet up or
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something where you're really creating
meaningful community. And so even if
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every quarter each of those 10 hosts
went back and and invited the six
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guests that they invited to the show
and there was an in person event that
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they put together where everybody
brought the guest that they had on the
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show and did a dinner or something like
that, big barbecue outside somewhere.
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Like I just think it would be a really
fun way to go to market to legitimately
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market your business. But in a way that
where there is also learning from your
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peers, there is sustained relationship
building with the guests that you've
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had on the show. There's just so many
things you can do with it. It certainly
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makes a lot more sense than me than
just paying to sponsor an event where
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you're one logo among many logo. Maybe
your logo slightly bigger than your
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competitors up on the wall and in the
brochure that nobody reads and uh, the
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signage that nobody sees in the
conference halls, it just doesn't even
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make sense. But in this case, you're
actually leading with creating value
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with people that are complementary to
you and are sending value that way.
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You're creating a whole media entity
and yourself, we talk a lot about
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00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:53.360
creating a media shop or a media
company within your company, Right? And
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this is one of the clever ways to do it
and only have like a court, like a
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fraction of the cost associated with it.
I think you're exactly right. So there
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you go. Is there anything else that we
left on the table James? No, man. I
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mean, this honestly feels like I was a
little bit hesitant jumping on here.
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Like, man, this is a strategy that I
very much want to execute both at an
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00:18:13.820 --> 00:18:18.430
industry level and the local level. And
uh, and so part of me is like, man,
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there's thousands of people that listen
to this, Somebody going to beat us to
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it if we share it. But honestly, I
think multiple people could win
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executing this. And I know it's not on
our roadmap for at least a few years at
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this point. And so I really hope
somebody listening to this takes it
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catches a vision for it and, and really
make something happen with it because I
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00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:41.660
think a whole lot of people could win.
Yeah, there's so much abundance,
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00:18:41.670 --> 00:18:44.910
There's so much to be had that I felt
like you'd be fine even if five people
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00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:48.640
heard it and took it ran with it. Oh my
gosh, there's just so much that you can
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do with this. So awesome. Well, James,
thanks for joining me on your show.
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Thanks for doing this man. I'm I'm
super pumped. Your last deep dive on
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00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:06.100
demand jin was like drinking from a
fire hydrant for me. So I'm unlikely to
255
00:19:06.100 --> 00:19:10.900
demand when I was a B. M. Remember, Oh
you were a B. M. Leslie did both of
256
00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:13.360
those, both of the deep dives have been
awesome. So the thought leadership,
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00:19:13.360 --> 00:19:17.540
deep dive if is uh I'm looking forward
to these things going live. So thanks
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00:19:17.540 --> 00:19:22.070
for having me be a part of it. Yeah,
bringing the fire. So for everybody
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00:19:22.070 --> 00:19:26.130
listening, if you liked this episode,
please go tap that writing button and
260
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your podcast player of choice to let us
know that you like this and come talk
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to James and I'll linkedin. We spend a
ton of time there and honestly both of
262
00:19:34.540 --> 00:19:38.400
us are talking to people all the time.
Hit us up in the DMZ. I answer any, any
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00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.830
genuine question that comes by me in a
comment or D. M I'm answering sometimes
264
00:19:42.830 --> 00:19:46.150
the video message. So come find us
unless you try to sell me something I
265
00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:51.440
respond to, I respond to DNS as well.
So yeah, go to ratings. Give us tap the
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number of stars you think we deserve?
We're not even gonna ask you to leave a
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review honestly because they don't
matter that much ratings are really
268
00:19:58.010 --> 00:20:03.120
seem to be what Apple cares more about.
So I love you all time dan. Thanks for
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00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:06.060
for letting me be a part of this one
man. Thank you and thanks for listening
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00:20:06.060 --> 00:20:07.670
to be to be growth
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00:20:09.740 --> 00:20:13.500
for the longest time. I was asking
people to leave a review of GDP growth
272
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and apple podcasts but I realized that
was kind of stupid because leaving a
273
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review is way harder than just leaving
a simple rating. So I'm changing my
274
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tune a bit instead of asking you to
leave a review, I'm just gonna ask you
275
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to go to be be growth in apple podcasts,
scroll down until you see the ratings
276
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and review section and just tap the
number of stars you want to give us no
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review necessary. Super easy and I
promise it will help us out a ton if
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you want a copy of my book, content
based networking, just shoot me a text
279
00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:48.530
after you leave the rating and I'll
send one your way, text me at 4074 and
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00:20:48.530 --> 00:20:52.060
I know 33 to 8.