What Happened to Drift? | Echo Chamber

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:20.719 Welcome back to another episode of the Echo Chamber here on B two B growth. 3 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.519 I'm joined today by our director of audience growth, Dan Sanchez, our 4 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:29.120 head of community Benji Block. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 5 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:34.079 of sweet fish and today we are talking about a brand that was once the 6 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:39.000 darling of B two B marketing, really b two be in general. I 7 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:48.920 think the brand is drift, and back in tween this was the only brand 8 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.240 that it seemed like a B Two b marketer could talk about. I mean 9 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:58.960 it was just the apple of everyone's eye and then all of a sudden one 10 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.959 person left drift and it just seemed as though nobody was talking about drift anymore. 11 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:10.000 Uh. And so we we're obviously talking about Davi gearhart and I want 12 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.200 to talk about what happened here. Is as I've been thinking about the Echo 13 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:17.719 Chamber series and, you know, talking about things that B two B marketers 14 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:22.799 are talking about on the Internet. I've heard podcast episodes about this or bring 15 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.959 it up in conversations with people. What the heck happened to drift? Dan, 16 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.519 you've got some thoughts here as we were talking about this, getting ready 17 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:36.799 to to hit record. What's your take on this thing that happened where this 18 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.920 brand was on the tip of everyone's tongue and now, all of a sudden, 19 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:44.280 regardless of a great exit, nobody seems to be talking about him? 20 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.000 I haven't heard them mention on Linkedin for a long time, since David Gearhart 21 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.319 actually went back to work as their chief brand officer or something like that. 22 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.480 That was the last time I heard drift mentioned. It had been a while 23 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.879 before that. Um of course he's not working there anymore. He's doing his 24 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.840 full time thing and honestly, I feel like this happens a lot with really 25 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:07.840 big tech companies that are like accelerating that fast. It takes so much momentum 26 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.159 for a rocket ship to get to orbit, to just leave the gravitational poll 27 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:14.919 that sucks it back down. I feel like it's the same with startups. 28 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.120 That's why they talk about startups launching and use the rocketship analogy a lot, 29 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:21.520 because it's true. It just takes so much momentum to get to the point 30 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.199 where you know what you're probably gonna be okay without going is fast right. 31 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:28.800 So it seems like there's a lot of hipe, pipe, pipe, pipe, 32 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.919 pipe, and things are growing, things are getting and then you get 33 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.960 acquired or you go public and it just kind of goes into cruise control for 34 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.199 a while. You're still growing. I think the company is actually doing I'm 35 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.120 sure they're doing quite well. I'm sure it's making tons of cash, but 36 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:46.400 it doesn't need as much hype to do the growth. In fact, it 37 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.759 probably needs to calm it down a little bit because that kind of growth can 38 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.919 be a little dangerous sometimes in big companies like to play it safe. Slow 39 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:58.479 and steady. Five to ten percent of growth a year is a lot of 40 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.120 growth, but nothing that's gonna, like, cause any damage. You know, 41 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:06.240 they're much more about losing their they care way more about losing what they 42 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:10.560 have versus gaining what they have. It's a safety game now that you're a 43 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.439 big company, and that's where drift is now. It's a big company now. 44 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:19.080 Yeah, I mean it's September of one. It looks like Vista Vista 45 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.840 Equity Partners, but I think a majority, I don't know if it's a 46 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:27.360 majority or minority stake. I think it was a majority steak and that put 47 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.400 them at over a billion dollar valuation, which is wild to me that what 48 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:38.599 was what was once known as a chatbot platform is now getting acquired at a 49 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:43.000 billion dollar valuation. I don't know exactly the details on that deal, but 50 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.080 I do think it's interesting, though. The thing that I want to point 51 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.360 to here is something that we preach a lot on B two B growth, 52 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:58.919 the power of activating your employees personal brands. And when Dave gearhart started at 53 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:02.159 drift, I think he had on a podcast before that was like a local 54 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:09.439 Boston podcast, and he had his and his CEO, a drift, D 55 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.000 C, who is now, I think, chairman or I don't even think 56 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.959 he's the CEO anymore. They just announced a new CEO maybe four or five 57 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:23.439 months ago. But this dynamic between David cancel and Dave Gearhart, D C 58 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:28.279 and D G, the way they positioned that relationship, I thought was brilliant, 59 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.079 just kind of this like wise sage founder who had been through multiple exits. 60 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:36.920 I think DC had sold a company to hub spot prior to that and 61 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.759 I think he'd had a couple of exits even before that. So he was 62 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:46.240 this this wise sage person investing in this young buck, this hungry, you 63 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:51.600 know, marketer, Dave Gearhart, and so their show seeking wisdom really fleshed 64 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:57.920 out that relationship and I remember being obsessed with that show and listening to it 65 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.639 going this is so good. It was there talking about timeless wisdom. It 66 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:05.399 wasn't specific marketing things. It was a little bit higher level than that, 67 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:10.279 but the banter between the two of them, the way they discussed a topic, 68 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279 I just thought it was incredible. It seemed like you were genuinely a 69 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:19.879 fly on the wall of two really smart people's conversations and I loved it and 70 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:27.480 I think through that podcast, combined with D G's ability to know every single 71 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.920 month. I've heard him now talk about this. I think I heard him 72 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.040 talk about it on Chris Walker's show the other day. He was talking about 73 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:36.319 how every month they would come up with like a marketing moment and they would 74 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.800 figure out, like what splash are we going to make this month, and 75 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:46.680 it was either like hey, we're we're going to dream force this month and 76 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.360 so let's make a big deal about how we are organizing a workout morning, 77 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.639 like we're organizing a workout the morning of like the second day of the conference, 78 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.879 and so we're just gonna make a huge deal about how hey like, 79 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:01.519 you can work out by yourself or you can come work out with drift, 80 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.920 and it was just I think, I don't know that they had to pay 81 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.319 anything to do it. They didn't have to, you know, spend the 82 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.079 hundred thousand dollars for a booth that you have to typically spend a dream force. 83 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.360 They probably did that also. I don't know because I wasn't there, 84 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.879 but I just remember everybody losing their minds about drift sponsoring a workout and I 85 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:25.920 was like that's that's clever, like that's an interesting way to engage your target 86 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:29.759 buyers at a conference that you know everybody's gonna be at, everybody's gonna be 87 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.759 talking about, and that he would just do that every single month and it 88 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:35.839 was creative and it was different and it wasn't the same old stuff. It 89 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:40.439 wasn't like they figured out that webinars worked and they just beat webinars to death. 90 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:46.000 They were trying new, fresh creative things month after month after month, 91 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.879 and because of that Dave grew an incredibly massive personal brand. I think he's 92 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.959 got well over a hundred thousand followers on linkedin now, probably closer to a 93 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.560 hundred forty thousand followers on Linkedin. When we did our original research we asked 94 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.160 who is the marketer that's influencing you the most? Dave Gerhart, I think 95 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:08.480 it was Dave Gerhart. Seth Goden and Chris Walker were kind of at the 96 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.839 tippity top of the list. So Dave gearhart built an incredible brand for himself. 97 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:16.279 Segue that really intelligent way. I think in the building D G MG, 98 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.360 which is now exit five, a community for B two B marketers and 99 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.879 if the I mean I'm looking at the numbers, he charges ten bucks a 100 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:27.399 month to be a part of that community. I think he's got three thousand, 101 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.480 over three thousand people. I mean that's a's a great way to make 102 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.120 thirty grand a month. Plus the advisor positions that he now has. I 103 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.600 think he's advising Alice and a few other brands, so those are probably ten 104 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.839 thousand dollar month positions. Yeah, metadata some of some of the best Bob 105 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.000 Brands in the game right now. Not Surprising that they're being advised by Dave 106 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.120 Gerhart, kind of the King of brand. I did think it was interesting. 107 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.879 I think Dan you mentioned like he went back to drift for a hot 108 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.079 second and he was their chief brand officer. I don't know what exactly went 109 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:01.439 down there. I would imagine when you're personal brand is netting you fifties, 110 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.279 sixties seventy grand a month, it's probably pretty tough to go back to being 111 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.199 an employee somewhere, especially, you know, drift, being at a different 112 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:13.199 season of the season of growth. So I don't know the details of what 113 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:20.319 happened there. B Two B growth will be right back. There are a 114 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.759 lot of questions on marketers minds right now, and analyzing the latest trends can 115 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.879 be a full time job in itself. Can an a R filter really improved 116 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.960 brand awareness? Why are streaming ads so loud? What do viewers really think 117 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.519 about shoppable ads? Marketing Group does the hard work for you, dropping a 118 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.080 quick to read free newsletter in your inbox every weekday, covering essential topics, 119 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:48.759 from influencers and advertising to social media and more. Marketing Group never misses a 120 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.200 beat. Get The answers you've been looking for, along with the ones you 121 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.120 haven't even thought of yet upgrade your game alongside a growing community of over two 122 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.879 hundred and sixty five thousand and marketing professionals. Check it out by clicking the 123 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:09.720 link in our show notes right now. It's probably pretty tough to go back 124 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.600 to being an employee somewhere, especially, you know, drift being at a 125 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.679 different season of the season of growth. So I don't know the details of 126 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.799 what happened there. That's a big part of it and it's kind of like 127 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.320 the seasons of growth to me, because Dave's still living in. He's got 128 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.919 all these new marketing ideas, but he's still living off of seeking wisdom in 129 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.799 some ways, because the book founder brand just came out like last year and 130 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:37.480 he's he's giving the playbook away for what they did then and that is also 131 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.639 informed what he's doing with exit five. So in my mind, like you 132 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:46.840 just have seasons as this thing scales. They were creating the category of conversational 133 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:52.879 marketing. They had a conference, like hyper growth conference. They were doing 134 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:58.039 a lot of things then that worked really well and then it continued to evolve 135 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.799 or change, I would say, where it's like it seems like it's just 136 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:05.600 much less of a public approach and I don't know like, because we're very 137 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.879 public by nature as well. We're looking on linkedin like where's drift now, 138 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:11.600 and they like it seems like there was just a strategy shift where it's like, 139 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:16.399 okay, Dave would have built it this way and now whoever's like got 140 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.120 the reins is is not doing it the same way. I like, I 141 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.159 could be missing something, but that's where I see it. It's like if 142 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.519 you're getting a billion dollar valuation and you're able to do that, there's other 143 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.840 good things happening, but it's not the things that we're working four years ago, 144 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.320 three years ago, two years ago for you. So yeah, it's 145 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.960 fascinating to me. I wonder if if I was in this game, you 146 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:45.919 know, back when salesforce was on its rise and you know the big logo 147 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:50.039 of like what was it? Um Uh, not software or soft the anti 148 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.639 software logo, anti software. They were villainizing software because they were really advocating 149 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.879 for everything being in the cloud. I wasn't in the game back then. 150 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.639 I don't know when salesforce started. I think it was in the early two 151 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.679 thousand's. I was still like a freshman in high school. But I wonder 152 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:07.919 if I would have, if I would have thought the same thing, like 153 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.919 Oh, what happened to salesforce? Well, salesforce is a freaking behemoth. 154 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.679 I don't ever see salesforce talked about on Linkedin. I don't really see people 155 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.279 on twitter talking about salesforce. Doesn't mean that salesforces and and exceptionally successful. 156 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:26.320 When we ask what brand do you have the most affinity towards, everyone is 157 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.440 saying salesforce. That is like it is still the top answer. And then 158 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:33.799 most of them are like, it's probably because I used it the longest. 159 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.879 They keep adding features and while there's been some drift from their original but like, 160 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.519 people love salesforce. They absolutely love salesforce. They've built a strong community. 161 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:50.200 That's wild to me because me as a millennial, my millennial kind of 162 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.120 uh, I don't know. I look at salesforce and I see it as 163 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.200 this like the eight hundred pound guerrilla that is super expensive and you've got to 164 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.759 hire a six figure consultant to come in and even show you how how it 165 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.159 freaking works because it's so complex and it can do so many different things. 166 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.320 So, I mean we're a hubspot shop here. Hubspot just feels like it's 167 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.600 more user friendly and like. But I've honestly, I've only used how to 168 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.480 use sales source one time and it was that a nonprofit that I worked out 169 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:20.840 several years ago and it was just the most complicated thing I've ever tried to 170 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.279 use, and I'm relatively savvy when it comes to figuring out the how the 171 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:31.559 Internet works. And Uh, I could not, I could not make that 172 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.080 tool do what I what I wanted it to do. But anyway, all 173 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.120 that to say, I wonder if that's how we're gonna be talking about drift 174 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:39.799 as they can, you know, probably continue to grow. I mean this 175 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:45.960 equity groups not valuing the company and a billion dollars with their investment if they 176 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:48.720 don't have plans to continue to grow this thing. So so it's fun to 177 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:54.320 talk about right like what what really worked for them to get over that Hump 178 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.399 and to create the kind of momentum that a brand needs to have that moment 179 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.840 in the sun to create the customer base that can allow you to UN build 180 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.200 an enduring company. That's something that most companies will never be able to do. 181 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.039 I mean, we're literally talking about drift next to salesforce, a giant 182 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.919 in our space. So I think what they pulled off is wild. Maybe 183 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.240 one day we'll be able to do something close to that with sweet fish, 184 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.639 I would hope. But yeah, any, any closing thoughts as we wind 185 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.480 this down. Dan or Dan or Benji, I think for most of the 186 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.080 people listening are probably working in B two B companies that are in the scale 187 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:33.159 up stage right or maybe just starting, but most of them are probably in 188 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.919 the we've had product market fit and they're trying to do what drift did, 189 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:39.000 which is what drift is known for. Is what they did in their scale 190 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.039 up stage. They had product market fit and it was about creating enough brand 191 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:48.759 affinity that it could scale and have great word of mouth going on, not 192 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:50.559 just from the marketing but of course the product. I don't know, it's 193 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.039 all of our aspirations. We all want to be able to replicate what they 194 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.879 did and it's wicked hard, but it's a good playbook to look at. 195 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.399 Yep, well said. Awesome. Alright. Well, if you want to 196 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.960 hear more of these echo chamber episodes, reach out to Dan Bingi or myself 197 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.720 on Linkedin. We would love to hear from you your feedback. Uh, 198 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.039 certainly informs the kind of content we're trying to create here on B two B 199 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.240 growth as we try to become the go to media property for B two B 200 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.360 marketers. UH, make sure to leave a rating wherever you're listening to the 201 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.720 show, whether spotify, apple, podcast tap the number of stars you think 202 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:31.120 the show deserves. We love you a ton and we'll talk to you soon. 203 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:46.240 B Two B growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish 204 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.799 media. Here at sweet fish we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative 205 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.840 brands in the world, and we help them turn those podcasts into micro videos, 206 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.559 linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce 207 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:09.080 every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet fish media DOT com. MMMMM,