Start Thinking About Go-To-Market as a Product, with Sangram Vajre

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:18.199 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with sweet fish media 3 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:21.600 and today I'm joined by San Graham vagery, who is the CO founder of 4 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.239 terminus and the author of a B M, is b two B. San 5 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:28.679 Graham, thanks so much for joining me on the show today. Dan excited 6 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:34.520 to be here. I'm glad we're able to make it happen absolutely as everybody 7 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.600 listening to this knows, I did a deep dive into account based marketing through 8 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:42.799 the month of February, going from as a B two C marketer transitioning to 9 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.359 be to be. It's been a fun journey. I've learned a lot about 10 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.880 account based marketing and I've certainly learned that San Graham is the man when it 11 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.240 comes to account based marketing. In fact, when I first started on the 12 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:56.000 journey and asked for book recommendations, a B M is B two B was 13 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.439 by far the most recommended book. That people are like, Oh, have 14 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:00.640 you checked out this book? Have you checked out Sam Graham's book? If 15 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.000 you heard from San Graham, you were definitely the most frequently mentioned person when 16 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.560 it came to getting into this topic of account based marketing, which I think 17 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:12.280 has been downyel a while, but it's definitely picked up over the last five 18 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:15.799 or six years. Would termine us, and you have a new book coming 19 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:21.920 out and that's what we're gonna be talking about in this podcast recording today. 20 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.560 So, Sand Graham, I'd like to even start, before jumping into the 21 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.680 book, talking a little bit about like account based marketing. Like you started 22 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:36.239 terminus five, six years ago and naturally, like the category, the whole 23 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.200 meaning behind the word has evolved over time. So like, where has it 24 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:44.079 come and since the time you've actually founded the company? What? Two things? 25 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:46.159 One, you'll have to give me the list of all the people who 26 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.079 dropped my name so I can send them all ten bucks every time they did 27 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:55.079 that. That that that's really what's happening there. But I appreciate and I 28 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.959 love the fact that you actually went deep and read as many books and as 29 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.480 many different ideas that are around it, because that's going to make this conversation 30 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:06.560 super rich for me. The A B M is B TWOB was the second 31 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:09.719 book and, quite frankly, I remember this conversation with my publisher. They're 32 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:14.639 like, let me get this straight. You want to write a book that 33 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:19.280 has two acronyms in the title, which is typically it has never ever happened 34 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:21.919 before. And what the heck are those? Like? What is a B 35 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:23.840 M and what is BTB? And I'm like, if you don't know, 36 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.599 then you don't need to read the book. I just know this is the 37 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.879 audience and if if they don't know a B M or they haven't heard the 38 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.439 word, the letters a B M, then they don't need to read the 39 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:38.000 book. This is not for them. So I was very intentional about making 40 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:43.080 sure that it is as provocative as it can be in order for people to 41 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.360 just get a get a shot in the arm and say, well, is 42 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:50.439 that really or is it not? And the title itself came from the Sales 43 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.759 Team, and I don't think most people understand that part is it came from 44 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:59.400 the sales team. And as I'm writing that, my third one like that, 45 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:01.240 I think a lot of people start coming up with the title first and 46 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:05.199 then to write the book. I typically try to write the book and then 47 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:08.280 come up with the title. And the reason is you learn a lot about 48 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:14.000 what's going on and you have to let your ego go aside and actually just 49 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:16.919 be again a student off it. So that's how I became the author of 50 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.560 the second book on a b m. s bb was just I just became 51 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.080 a student of a b m. and then you answer you a question more 52 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.800 directly on what has changed. I felt like that's literally the evolution in the 53 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.280 book earlier when we wrote the A B M accounts marketing for dummies. That 54 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:36.680 valley is published my first book. I honestly just thought it's a better mouse 55 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.360 trap, it's a better acquisition. That the whole flip. My funnel movement 56 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.240 was about, Hey, look, why go after Indian everybody? Why not 57 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.960 go after the right accounts if you know you can serve them the best, 58 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.719 and that's really was my thesis for the First Book. That's what of the 59 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:58.039 thesis for Launching Terminus. And what's interesting is over the years I would constantly 60 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.599 see people running all kinds of campaign that were very different than acquisition, which 61 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:04.560 is what led me to like, wait a minute, what are they running? 62 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.080 And really, when we even deeper, it seemed like, Whoa, 63 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:13.599 marketers are now running pipeline velocity campaigns. That was a very big and new 64 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:15.920 idea and probably still a very big and new idea for a lot of people 65 00:04:15.959 --> 00:04:21.040 because marketers typically stop at the acquisition because that's what their goal is. But 66 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:27.439 modern organizations would want marketers to go all the way to the sales part, 67 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.439 all the way to closing the deals. So I saw a pipeline velocity become 68 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.720 a big deal, meaning if you have deals in your pipe, you should 69 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:38.800 be working on it as a matter of Dan. I would I would literally 70 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.680 go on record and say that in every organization right now listening to this, 71 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.879 if they stop acquisition whenever this goes launched, let's just say it gets you 72 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:51.360 know, this podcast is launched in March, April. If you stop acquisition 73 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:57.160 completely, chances are you might say, oh no, then we're not going 74 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.160 to hit our numbers. You actually will still hit the numbers if you focus 75 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:02.639 on your pipeline. As a matter of fact, you might actually break the 76 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:06.680 record and hit better numbers at the end of the year from a from a 77 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:11.920 revenue perspective, if you only focused on the pipeline. And the reason it's 78 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.240 quite simple. Those accounts that are in your pipeline are the ones they have 79 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:19.399 raised their hands and said we're gonna buy from you or your competitor. So 80 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:25.920 marketing not working and helping the sales team to close those accounts is the greatest 81 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.600 tragedy of marketing, quite frankly, very dramatically so. So as I started 82 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.920 seeing modern organizations focus on pipeline velocity and even further, as I have in 83 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:39.240 the Book Thompson Reuters, a big, massive company, and others, they 84 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:43.160 started focusing on expansion deals. They're like, look, we got more than 85 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.360 one product, we already know these accounts. These are our customers, they 86 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.279 love us and we want to make sure that we can now upset across sell 87 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:55.959 I like to call observing them with new services that we have. But they 88 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.360 don't know they just know us as company X, but we do eive other 89 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:03.279 things. So they started pretty expansion. So that's really what led me to 90 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:09.360 this understanding and feeling like man, this is bigger than acquisition, this is 91 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:14.040 bigger than marketing automation. So when I interviewed and had a lot of sales 92 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.600 people are part of the process, I remember every time everybody coming in that's 93 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.000 just better marketing, that's just B two B that I mean people. People 94 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.279 would say that flippantly and I started to make a note of it and I'm 95 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.800 like that's what people are saying, and that became the title of the book. 96 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.360 So my whole journey thesis from being just an acquisition only story drawn into 97 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.920 more of like the way marketing should work and sales should work. Hey Man, 98 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:40.680 I'm drinking the cool head. Honestly, after doing the deep dive, 99 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:43.240 that was one of the things I was trying to figure out, is, 100 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.360 is this just a better form of marketing? And my conclusion after doing it 101 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:49.560 was like no, this is very different, because you can't. You can't 102 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:54.160 do this in B two c. like this doesn't work in B two C 103 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:58.360 in most situations. Right, there's probably some obscure situations where you can still 104 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:00.120 do this, but in most cases, like this is very much a B 105 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:03.759 two B strategy. That and maybe B two G, right, because there's 106 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.040 a lot of similarities there, but it's kind of like this is a very 107 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:10.160 particular thing. There's a good definition of it, there's a good approach to 108 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:13.519 it, there's a way you can measure it as differently than what you're doing 109 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.639 with other marketing activities. It's very well defined. I even got into a 110 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.560 long conversation with a lot of people two weeks ago on actually picking apart demand 111 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:26.079 Gen as a as a category. I was like demand Gen is actually harder 112 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.560 to define. It's very loosey Goosey on its definition. I'd almost make an 113 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:33.360 argument that demand Gen as a category is much more closely to just good marketing. 114 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:38.279 A B M is very specific. You can literally do all your normal 115 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.959 marketing stuff and do a B M as this whole separate activity. I do 116 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:46.439 have a question for you. Mentioned if somebody stopped doing acquisition that they would 117 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:48.279 be able to do better in their pipeline. Do you mean that they would 118 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:53.680 just reallocate funds to doing the marketing and advertising to those who are in their 119 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:57.079 pipeline, or just dropping it all together? And do you mean that they 120 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:00.279 would like focus, like have more focus for the pipeline? What do you 121 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.920 mean? But honestly challenge everybody to literally say, let me let me put 122 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.879 it this way. When I used to go out and speak like not now 123 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.959 virtually it's kind of you're doing a lot of it. It's hard to get 124 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:15.279 super audience participation on it. But I will typically speak at events and say 125 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.399 raise your hand. If you send a newsletter and almost every person in the 126 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.399 you know, three thousand people, they raise their hand. I'm like great, 127 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.920 now, keep your hand raised. If nobody, if the people you're 128 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.879 sending to, and if you say, let's say you stop sending your newsletter 129 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:35.559 next week or next month, you will have somebody pick up the phone or 130 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.759 email you back and saying hey, why didn't you send your newsletter? I 131 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.000 was waiting for it. Raise your hand if that actually ever happened to anybody. 132 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.360 None. None. And I'm like, well, that's the challenge. 133 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.559 That's the problem in nutshell, that we're doing what we feel is right. 134 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.360 We're not doing what we what the customer feels is right. So if we 135 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.399 take out eight percent of the activities that actually marking does, that is demand 136 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:07.080 Gen or awareness. They actually do nothing. They really don't drive revenue, 137 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.240 they really don't create business. It goes back to the staff from Forrester or, 138 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.480 let's than one person of the leads turning to customers. Is just a 139 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:18.240 fact. So, with that as the backdrop of it, my challenge for 140 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:24.399 organization is that, honestly, if you recognize that eighty personal stuff you do 141 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.919 don't really drive business value or drive revenue, then why not just drop it 142 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:33.279 now? Don't do it, and instead of that you will now have all 143 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.000 this time and all these resources and all these budgetary opportunities that you have and 144 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.039 actually focus on the fifty deals that are in pipeline that are supposed to close 145 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:46.440 it the next three quarters. Go ask any salesperson what are your top deals 146 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.000 you're working on? They don't need to look at any stinking crm now. 147 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.840 They know it in their head, like hey, here are my top ten 148 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.960 deals. That's gonna help me close my quota and actually make revenue and that's 149 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:00.519 how I put food on the table from my family. When you know that 150 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:05.440 and if the sale, if the marketing team can now create unscalable experiences for 151 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.600 those fifty account my bet is on that that you're can close a lot of 152 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.039 those fifty accounts. The problem is we try to scale everything, we try 153 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:18.440 to dilute everything, we try to create things that nobody really wants and then 154 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.279 wonder what we need more budget to do different things. But but I will 155 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.159 challenge. Instead of asking for more, how about cut it out? Stop 156 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:31.120 creating e books that nobody's reading, stop creating social posts that actually get zero 157 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.720 likes or favorites or engagement on it, stop sending newsletters every week or whatever. 158 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.759 If, if nobody if you never if you didn't send that, if 159 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.440 nobody's gonna cry, then what will happen for a month or two months? 160 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.480 If you just stop doing that, and I promised, people will find more 161 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.679 time, more budget, more resources, and the sales team will love you 162 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.519 and that's how you actually drive business impact. Okay, there's a lot of 163 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:56.279 things you said there that I was like yeah, absolutely, I'm doing it. 164 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.960 I was spending like a cent up our budget just targeting everybody, or 165 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.759 at least the segments that I was carving out on facebook and on Google, 166 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.759 very typical legion type approach. And after doing the series, I'm like, 167 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.519 Nope, now, at least through we have a smaller budget. So linkedin 168 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.480 ads becomes kind of like the best place where I can actually just target the 169 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.720 exact companies who want to target. I'm like, I'm dropping my budget on 170 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.080 that and, of course, retargeting once I can get them from Linkedin to 171 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.360 our website. But I know I have control over a little bit more control 172 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.200 over which accounts are actually seeing it. I'm like, I'm pretty much shifting 173 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.639 all my ad budget that way. It just makes sense. A B M 174 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.639 just makes sense. If I would have been able to do this in B 175 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.279 two C and could only target the people who had the means, and we're 176 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:43.519 in somewhat in the market for what I could sell, then I would have 177 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.080 only targeted them. But there's no way to do that in BC, but 178 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.080 in B Two b you can know what you just said. I wish it 179 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.840 should be an auto play for every person to listen every morning as they drive 180 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:56.320 or get on the call, get their coffee on. Is like, if 181 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.879 you're in a B two B, it's a privilege right now, because people, 182 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:03.720 we always have the other person as a better, like greener yard. 183 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.879 Right like that, just a feeling that every Oh, I wish I wasn't 184 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.440 b two see it's more sexy. We could do really cool things. We 185 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.360 can just run a bunch of email campaigns. You know, if you're in 186 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.679 B two C, you have absolutely no idea how and who you can serve 187 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.559 all the time. Like there's just so much pressure on driving revenue immediately on 188 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.159 a regular basis. Sometimes it works on something, doesn't you create all these 189 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.919 brand campaigns hoping that things would happen, but you're not not necessary. As 190 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.159 an example, I drive a jeep gladiator Um, so people who are in 191 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.919 jeeps. They will be like, oh, that's really cool, but who? 192 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.519 How did how did they target me? How did they get me? 193 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:46.879 Like it was ten years ago, when I was like almost fifteen years ago, 194 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.720 when I was in University of Alabama and I would see jeep jeeps all 195 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:52.360 over the place and I'm like I want to run own a jeep one day, 196 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.159 like that just became a dream and I saw ads and I saw people 197 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.360 and all that stuff and I went in Boudjee gladiator. Well, how in 198 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.360 the hell? WHO GETS CREDIT FOR IT IN BBC? Like who will get 199 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.360 credit for that? Like it's it's really hard. But in B two B 200 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.559 you know the five hundred accounts that you can serve the best. You know 201 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:16.879 who are the accounts that you can actually make people get promoted in their organization 202 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.399 if you serve them better. You know what pain points they have and how 203 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.480 many people are in the decision making process. So if you know all that, 204 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.559 you have a privilege and I think people need to take responsibility for it. 205 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:33.960 Absolutely and honestly. You've got to take responsibility for the marketing budget. 206 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.279 You've been entrusted to actually spend better, but we're how'm a fan boy. 207 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.559 You are clearly a fan of a B M. You've written two books on 208 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:43.919 it. So when we know where a B Ms Bim, I'd love to 209 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.679 learn from you, Sangraham, a little bit more about where you think the 210 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:52.440 whole category is going. Things are changing. Viewpoints on a B M is 211 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.080 changing, technology is changing. A lot of interesting things going on, even 212 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:00.480 with cookies and all those kinds of technological things changing, Um, and categories 213 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.600 expanding. It's getting bigger, people are getting better at it. With all 214 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.879 these things going and you've been in the category for so long now, like, 215 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.159 where do you see it going and tell me a little bit about like 216 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.200 where your book fits into it. So I'd love to learn about what you're 217 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.879 writing, where you see it going. So give me, give me a 218 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.519 glimpse of the future. Well, well, here we go. Um, 219 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:22.240 you know, in order to see the future, we always have to know 220 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.759 where we came from, right. So it's it's important to recognize that. 221 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.039 As we go and look at the evolution of it, we we see that 222 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.679 email was a big part of what marketing did and and it still is doing, 223 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.399 and that was a big category at one point and then it just became 224 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.039 a part of what marketers do. You. Then you look at marketing automation. 225 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.279 That became a big part of what marketers do and everybody now use this 226 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.480 marketing automation. But these are all technologies. Ultimately, the reason a B 227 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:56.799 M became so phenomenally big compared to any of these two things, where these 228 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:58.879 two became a subset of a B M, is because, as a stro 229 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:03.480 rategy, it's not a tool. Like anybody who comes and says to me 230 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:05.320 how we use terminus and I'm doing a B M. I'm like, no, 231 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:09.840 you're not. You're doing a b m to the best ability that terminus 232 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.080 allows you to do. But if you're not doing direct mail and not using 233 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.440 pfl or Alice or any of these folks, you're not creating high tech and 234 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:22.679 high touch experiences, if you're not using something like outlaw outreach or sales loft 235 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.159 and creating those cadences, you're you're you don't have your sales team baked into 236 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.799 it. So No, you're not doing a B M because you use one 237 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.200 software, you you do a B M and you actually have a holistic strategy 238 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.399 around an account that you're going after. So so that's why a B M 239 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.120 is so much more bigger in value and valuation and all that stuff. But 240 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:46.200 it still took me six years. Than six years to convince the analyst world 241 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.960 to put it put us on a wave, six years for forrester to create 242 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.679 an a B M wave. That that they didn't create. And until they 243 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.120 create a B M like like a wave for your product, it is actually 244 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.759 not a true of category because when you create a wave you actually become an 245 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.120 enterprise class solution. So now, finally, when they created last year, 246 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:12.159 where a B M has not become a something, that that's actually where enterprises, 247 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.120 where our F fees are needed. We're companies saying we've got to do 248 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.480 this, we are the best on top to right quadrant and let's have them 249 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.440 come in. So finally, after six years. So it takes a long 250 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.000 time. Is a big lesson for me, and that like when you think 251 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.399 about creating categories. What's now I see, when I see the future and 252 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.399 what I'm writing on right now, is a new north star, because all 253 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:38.679 of that email marketing automation was about helping marketers get their job done easier, 254 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:45.039 maybe faster, um in a in a tactical way. A B M elevated 255 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.840 that to a strategy that brought marketing and sales together and said that we are 256 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.679 one team. We need to work together, we gotta have the same metrics, 257 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.320 the same target accounts and all the team framework that we talked about in 258 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.320 the book. But then I think where I feel we're going now to go 259 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.759 to market. It's like, ultimately, you know, the new North Star 260 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:08.279 for organizations group understand a B M is actually what does our go to market 261 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:14.279 process meaning? How do I bring not only marketing and sales but also customers 262 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.680 success together? That becomes your high performing go to market revenue team, and 263 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.839 that's what I'm writing right now about. Is that how organizations go from an 264 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:30.359 organization that is focused on leads to then focus on accounts to now focus on 265 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.799 customers. In another way, said, it could be how you go from 266 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:40.480 ideation to transition to execution. A different way, even from the framework perspective, 267 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.680 to think about how do you go from a problem market fit to a 268 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:48.480 product market fit to a platform market fit? And I'm throwing all these phrases 269 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.200 because I want people to recognize that as an organization evolves, they will have 270 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:57.440 to start thinking about it in business context and business terms, and businesses don't 271 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.400 always say the same things that people in the execution levels say. So you 272 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.200 right now, as a marketing or sales leader, maybe thinking about leads, 273 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.240 accounts and customers. That's great, but if you ask your cl what is 274 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:11.119 he talking about? What is she talking about? They're not talking about leads, 275 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.240 accounts and customers, they're talking about hey, if you're in the transition 276 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.759 phase, we are in the growth phase, we're in the execution phase. 277 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.799 Like that's those that's the vocabulary they're using. So ultimately, where I think 278 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:27.519 the market is moving is figuring out what is our go to market process, 279 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:33.519 strategy are and and almost thinking about go to market as a product itself. 280 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:38.039 Hey, everybody logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the 281 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.799 show for a while, you know we're big proponents of putting out original, 282 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:47.079 organic content on Linkedin, but one thing that's always been a struggle for a 283 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:51.640 team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's 284 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.000 why I was really excited when I heard about shield the other day from a 285 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.079 connection on, you guessed it, linked in. Since our team started using 286 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:03.680 shield, I've loved of how it's led US easily track and analyze the performance 287 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:08.240 of our linkedin content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates 288 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.319 reports and generates some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things like what content 289 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:17.400 has been performing the best and what days of the week are we getting the 290 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:22.440 most engagement and our average views pro post. I highly suggest you guys check 291 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.799 out this tool if you're putting out content on Linkedin, and if you're not, 292 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:27.960 you should be. It's been a game changer for us. If you 293 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:33.240 go to shield APP DOT AI and check out the ten day free trial, 294 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.400 you can even use our Promo Code B to be growth to get a discount. 295 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:42.039 Again. That's shield APP DOT AI and that Promo Code is be, 296 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:47.440 the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's get 297 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.559 back to the show. So how do you product tize that? I mean 298 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.640 it's a go to market strategies, the whole value creation kind of like the 299 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.240 whole process that you're bringing to market in order to deliver value. At least 300 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.240 that's how I understand go to market. How do you actually productize that? 301 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.359 You said at the end, and I was like wait, what? Yeah, 302 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.960 yeah, well, I mean that's where where where things are going? 303 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.079 Like we we are going to create a go to market cloud as a company. 304 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:18.480 But just like a B M, it's a strategy. So we will 305 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.039 not have the monopoly on it, just like we don't have a monopoly and 306 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.279 a b M. Anybody but can go and create a bunch of a B 307 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.319 M platforms and different pieces to it, because there are different pieces to it. 308 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:32.200 But a B M was very much constricted to marketing and a lot of 309 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.960 the things that create a very in marketing. So if you think about let's 310 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.920 just take our company as an example, terminus, we made four different acquisitions. 311 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.119 We were an ads company when we started. Then we acquired bright funnel 312 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.519 so that we can help companies look at analytics from all the advertising they do. 313 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.200 Then we acquired bramble chat so we can create personalized experiences for people on 314 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.680 the website. Then we acquired Barfaire so we can give them intent data around 315 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.960 what's happening and how do they look at the next accounts they need to go 316 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.039 after. If you really take a step back and think about that, makes 317 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.160 no sense. If I said, hey, a company is acquiring a chat 318 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.920 platform and an ad platform and an analytics platform, like it doesn't make sense. 319 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.319 But it makes sense when you pull that together in a strategy, saying 320 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.480 well, we're helping you do your a, b m strategy. Similarly, 321 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.000 I feel, when you think about go to market, it is a full 322 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.920 on strategy. So and a go to market process. You would say, 323 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:30.680 I want to create have marketing solutions, customer solutions and sales solution and all 324 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.119 of them need to work together in order for us to have one view around 325 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.839 it, have one go to market scorecard. I'll give you a very specific 326 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.640 example, Dan. That's happening in our organization that I believe is starting to 327 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.200 happen in more and more modern organizations. Every Tuesday we have a team meeting, 328 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:52.200 an executive meeting, and Mallory Matory Lee, who runs our revenue operations, 329 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.000 she runs that meeting. She opens that meeting. She opens with a 330 00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.920 go to market scorecard and says that, folks, here's a r here's where 331 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:03.079 we are on the revenue, here's where are when the expansion revenue, here 332 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:07.319 we are on the gross margins and gross profits. She literally puts the go 333 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.000 to market score card and then the conversation begins and then we get into priorities 334 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:17.519 from last entire year. That is exactly every single executive meeting has started. 335 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.960 So I think marketers need to recognize that what's really happening at the sea level. 336 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.279 At the sea level they're talking about business outcomes in terms. So I 337 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.000 feel marketing is gonna if they want to uplevel the conversation. Go to market 338 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.599 is really where they need to get in. It's like, well, whatever 339 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.839 we do, how does that impact our business? To move from point to 340 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.160 point B and I think that's a whole strategy and that will turn into a 341 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.519 product one day. Man, that makes so much sense. I had somebody 342 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:48.880 asked me I had posted that I on Linkedin recently that I read every book 343 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:55.039 I could find on account based marketing. Spend eleven books and Oh my God 344 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:56.559 that's a lot. I didn't realize there were so many. Eleven books. 345 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.960 Some of them are small and obscure and written by people that I'd never heard 346 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.359 before. I had to go dive deep and find them all and I include 347 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.359 some books that are probably more B two B in general but have a good 348 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.160 section on a B M, like Um Samantha Stones Book unleashed possible has a 349 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.160 great a B M section, but it's more of a B two B book. 350 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.960 I put James's book in there because it has h a B M applications 351 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.519 for sure, that we use all the time. Um, so e loving 352 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.720 different books. There's probably more I could add eventually, and eventually your new 353 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.960 book will be on there. But somebody asked me like Oh, he was 354 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.559 asking for a book recommendation. I'm like sure, like give me like where 355 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.200 you're at and like what flavor, what kind of thing you're looking for, 356 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.359 and since some books are better at different points than others. He's like, 357 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.000 well, I'd really like to learn how to bridge, make a bridge with 358 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.319 account based marketing, between marketing, sales and customer service. I was like, 359 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.240 Oh, no one's written that book yet, but I told them I 360 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.799 have a feeling sand gram might be writing that book, so that book might 361 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.960 be coming out soon. It's funny you say that then, because here's here's 362 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:59.880 the most fascinating thing. Like with all of my books, I'm huge on 363 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.319 research. I'm really really I really become a student again, like that's how 364 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.000 it's not an altruistic, egoistic we have. Well, I had a point 365 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.759 of view and I'm gonna go with it. It's really I have a feeling, 366 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.160 but I want to get the right people to get it. So I 367 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.319 interviewed like Brian Halligan, CEO of hub spot, manny, you know, 368 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.960 see if outreach, you know, Sydney sells, like like nick matter, 369 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.200 CEF gain side, like bunch of CEOS, bunch of vcs with billion dollar 370 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.440 portfolios, bunch of CMOS, bunch of C R os, bunch of analysts 371 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.039 and bunch of a B M R s. So six different perspectives as I 372 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:38.319 started writing this, this book. And what's interesting is that every CEO I 373 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:44.440 asked them who owns? Go to market? And that's the same question I 374 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.119 asked every single one of these six different six different leaders. What's interesting is 375 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:53.480 every CEO said, outside of the vision and culture, which obviously the CEO 376 00:24:53.559 --> 00:25:00.640 owns, ultimately go to market is the one thing that they absolutely no matter 377 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.440 if there are a public company CEO like Brian Halligan, who's like for the 378 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.039 last thirty years, that's what I owned, all the way to a startup 379 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:07.200 company CEO saying well, if that, if I don't know that, what 380 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.400 do I own? What's interesting is the CMOS thought, well, the CR 381 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.599 owns it. When you go to an analyst, they think that maybe the 382 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.119 CMOS and because they think about it as just product launches. So it's really 383 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.319 interesting that all these key people who are part of the good market process, 384 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:30.279 that machinery that takes dreams of founders into reality in the marketplace for what customers 385 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:36.160 benefit from. There is a gap there and there is that gap is really 386 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.119 where we're trying to create the understanding of like, well, it's a process. 387 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.880 I think Brian Halligan said it the best. He said good market, 388 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.319 how do you define it? He said, well, you know, a 389 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.240 lot of people go on a weekend trip and try to figure out what their 390 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.519 good market strategy is going to be and come back and say this is it. 391 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.880 What he realized in fourteen years of building a company? Two hundred million 392 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.920 a r R. Right now we just icolis like a hundred thousand customers or 393 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.720 something like that now. And he said the one thing that he realized is 394 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:11.319 that go to market is itself. Think about it like a product, meaning 395 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.720 think about that it's going to iterate, it's going to change, it's going 396 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.920 to hook up with different things, it's going to have different milestones and it's 397 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.039 a constant evolution of things. And it was really interesting, like he didn't 398 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:26.440 use the word strategy at all. He said it's not a strategy. Vision 399 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.480 is you have a vision, but it's not a strategy, it's a process, 400 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.400 it's a product. So it was really interesting as I'm going through all 401 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.400 of these interviews that Oh my God, it's so much more deeper and there 402 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.079 are so many different ideas that people have and I hope that this book distills 403 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:44.200 it out. It's interesting. Actually reminds me a lot of something I was 404 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.559 teaching on yesterday. I taught a small college class and interesting, I'm a 405 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.799 marketer, but I was teaching this small class on finance and I was I 406 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.279 was running them through the like as they were taking their entrepreneurship marriage. So 407 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:56.480 I'm like, there's one thing you need to understand in finance. It's kind 408 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.559 of like, you know the P M l. You need to be able 409 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.799 to take your is this idea and validate it financially like and get good at 410 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.440 doing this in your head. Like Watch Shark tank. They're like constantly asking 411 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:08.559 questions to figure out if they have financial viable models right. But you need 412 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.759 to essentially stop looking at it as the product and look at it as the 413 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.640 system of delivering the product. Right. You need us not look at what 414 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.000 they make, but the system for making it. Is that kind of what 415 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.799 you mean by a go to market is the not the product, not that, 416 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.559 not what you're delivering, but the system for delivering it. You are 417 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.400 absolutely right. I think that you think about that is your product, that's 418 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.920 what you work on as the entrepreneur. Don't get caught up in making widgets. 419 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.720 Yeah, you you make the system for making widgets and that's your real 420 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.599 goal. That's what you have to think about. Absolutely I think that is 421 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.720 that is spot on. That that is it is. It is an act 422 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.559 of process. It is a total process. We're creating this connected experiences all 423 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:51.519 over the place. But as a CEO, you actually have to come up 424 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:53.799 with that and think about it or challenge your team to do it, and 425 00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.559 you have all these teams to execute on it. But, Gosh, no 426 00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:02.640 CEO talks about leads and accounts and like that. That's not how they talk 427 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:06.240 about it. So there is a level of abstraction there. And and how 428 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.039 do you bridge the gap of like, well, you're talking about this is 429 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.960 the business phase we are in and this is how we are going to execute 430 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.640 on that business phase and and how we go through it? I think that's 431 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.759 the gap that I hope this, uh, this book bridges, and you 432 00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.000 would say the CEO is the chief owner of the go to market. Absolutely 433 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.559 hand it out. I was surprised and that's why it's fun to be a 434 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:29.599 student and go back and ask, because I wouldn't have said that. Honestly, 435 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.119 I would have said maybe a C R O or in some cases, 436 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.519 many times people would say, well, it's the marketing product launches, or 437 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.000 maybe it's the sales revenue number. But now go to market, as we 438 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.000 would redefine it for the world, because it's just like a B m. 439 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:45.400 It was an old term but it didn't really have all the belts and whistles 440 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.279 for people to really understand. We hope that's what go to market is. 441 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.440 It's an old term that people have a lot of baggage with and I hope 442 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.720 we would be able to clean it up, Polish it up and actually put 443 00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.880 it back on the Mantel and say, you know what, this is really 444 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.920 what it really means and this is why and how we go about it. 445 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.599 It's really interesting. It's making me think a lot because I think just before 446 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.200 this conversation I would have said what you would have said like what are the 447 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:11.319 chief responsibilities of CEO? And I would have been like culture and vision. 448 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.559 That's why I even you know, the current CEO of Microsoft is turning around 449 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:19.640 Microsoft because he's so focused on vision and culture and Microsoft right, I don't 450 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.160 think no one, no one doubts that. But at the same time someone's 451 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.000 got to be focused on how everything integrates to deliver the most value to the 452 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.920 customer, and there's not a single person other than the CEO who can do 453 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.559 it, because it touches everything from finance to marketing and sales and everything in 454 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:38.039 between. So you're right, it has to be the CEO and I never 455 00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.920 really considered that. I mean always considered an entrepreneur who's building it. But 456 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:47.000 even for a larger company with all these complexities, it's gonna have to be 457 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:51.400 the CEO. and Bob Iger. Remember reading his biography recently and it makes 458 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:52.440 more sense now. I'm like, Oh, that's why he was the one 459 00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.759 really heading up these big deals with Pixar, even coming up with how do 460 00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:59.880 we even organized Disney plus as a new business model for us? He was 461 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.240 kind of the one putting all the big puzzle pieces together. Of course he 462 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.480 invited all the voices in and facilitated that conversation. But it's a big reason 463 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.279 why Disney's continue to be relevant as culture has changed so much, is because 464 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.400 he was paying attention to the go to market. So and and and there's 465 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.640 no, you're right there. They are the one who actually are thinking about 466 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.279 it, waking up about it. They may not be the one who are 467 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.000 executing on it, obviously, but gosh, like you know, how do 468 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.680 you make deals happen? How do you do acquisition? Do you open up 469 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.920 market in India, or do you actually launch a new product? Like there 470 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.000 are ideas that come in, but you order the decision maker on it or 471 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.759 you have to push the organization to move in a certain direction, to go 472 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:42.079 and so it's a it's a fascinating thing, uh, and you're really already 473 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.720 point. It is what brings the high performing go to market teams, which 474 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.279 is the marketing, sales and customer success together. Um, and it is 475 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:53.720 a strategy much like a B M, but it up levels itself to a 476 00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:57.680 C level executive team as opposed to just VP level team. So that's some 477 00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:02.039 good insight. Uh. One thing I thought about as we were talking about 478 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.119 a B M entering the customer service arena. Is there any insights you can 479 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:07.480 give on like what that looks like in general as opposed to the way bt 480 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.880 B companies have done customer service before? Be Interested in hearing like a few 481 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:17.759 few points on what it looks like with account based marketing in mind. Yeah, 482 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:21.640 well, it's interesting. I'll give you sneak peek into it because, 483 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:26.000 just like last book where we introduced, well, every book right the first 484 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.200 book we introduced the flip my funnel as a framework, the last books to 485 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.079 be introduced the team framework around target engage activity measure. So in this book 486 00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:38.599 we can also introduce another framework because to me, I mean I'm a very 487 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.680 simple mind, like I need a framework so I can see it and there's 488 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:45.839 freedom within framework so people can can use it the way they want and there's 489 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.799 a maturity curve around it to see where they land on it, so you 490 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:53.000 can self assess yourself where you are and then figure out where you want to 491 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.839 go. So all that is say is is a framework that answers these four 492 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.160 questions and I want to leave you with that part of it because any more 493 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.160 than that I will do a disservice to my pr team and UH, and 494 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:08.119 the publisher team beyond it. But here are the four questions that this this 495 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:12.200 book will answer, and especially on the service side of the House. So 496 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:15.359 think about this. The first question it will answer is the WHO question. 497 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:21.759 WHO SHOULD BE MARKET TOO? That is a very esoteric question. Almost every 498 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.319 person is asking it and it touches on the A B M and levels of 499 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:28.640 Tam I, C P, intent all that stuff. But answering the question 500 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.799 who should be market too, and it will evolve depending upon the stage of 501 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:36.480 your organization, is the second question it will answer is what do you need 502 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:42.759 to operate effectively? This is where the revenue operations really becomes the Gold Star, 503 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.640 if you will right, because they are the one who are the brains 504 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:50.359 and are able to tell what is effective, not sor not not efficiency, 505 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:55.519 but effectiveness of your business model. The third question this this book will answer 506 00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.119 is like when can we scale our business? I'm sure then you get this 507 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:01.359 question all the time from James and others. Is like well, what do 508 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.680 we how are we going to scale this thing? And a lot of times 509 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.960 organizations are either in by sales driven because that's how the business is in the 510 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.960 beginning. Then they bring the marketing and sales together and then have marketing, 511 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.400 sales and customer success together. So it becomes an exercise of prioritization, if 512 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.119 you will. And then the fourth question it will answer is where can we 513 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.920 grow the most? Where can we grow the most? This is where you 514 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.880 will start answering the question. Well, should we go from one product to 515 00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:32.839 multiproduct? Should we go from sales direct sales to having channels? Should we 516 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.200 go from just being in North America to be in emia? So you can 517 00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.920 start figuring out what do you grow the most? So answering the the WHO, 518 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:43.839 the what, the when, the where question, like who should be 519 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:46.680 market? What do you need to operate effectively? When can we scale our 520 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:51.240 business and where can we grow the most? Literally, is going to be 521 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.720 the thesis for the for the book, and that's really how the good market 522 00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:59.519 maturity curve and everything that we will put together in it and try to hopefully 523 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.799 make comp like simple for a lot of people who are thinking about go to 524 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:06.599 market. Yeah, I love the questions and it makes me think that there 525 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:10.159 are more overarching questions that kind of guide the whole conversation around the book and 526 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:15.280 I imagine that last question in particular is powerful because a team might decide that 527 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.800 instead of spending a lot of time and effort going after new accounts, just 528 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.960 expanding our existing accounts and that becomes a kind of a customer service account management 529 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:29.000 thing is actually the best place to grow revenue right now. Not that you 530 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.320 stop account acquisition, you keep going, but you're not going to launch a 531 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:36.840 whole new campaign around it right now. So that's very interesting. Man, 532 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.800 you've teased me and I'm like, man, when's this book going to come 533 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:42.079 out? And I'm sure the audience is thinking now like yes, Andra, 534 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.199 when's this book got to come out? When can we expect to pre order 535 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:47.519 or get to get a copy of this thing? Yeah, well, if 536 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.199 we'll come out in August, Um, well, I don't know when we 537 00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.639 can actually put a prior link and stuff like that, but you'll be one 538 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:58.320 of the first people do not fantastic. Well, when it comes out, 539 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.119 I will certainly be posting it to Linkedin and probably mentioning it in this show. 540 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:06.800 Sandroum, thank you so much for joining us today. I've learned a 541 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.800 ton and I'm gonna be thinking a lot about the role of the CEO now 542 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:13.159 and probably be having lots of conversations with James about to be fun. That's 543 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.519 awesome. D thank you so much for about the book when it comes out. 544 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.960 Is there a place they can subscribe to or connect with you in order 545 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.000 to find out when it comes well, just if if people want to connect 546 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.639 on and just drop me a linkedin message. I haven't really put on a 547 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.320 website or web page yet on it. This is literally the first conversation of 548 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.199 all conversations I'm having on it since I've been like heads down on it. 549 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.239 B Two B growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. 550 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:42.920 Here at sweet fish we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative brands 551 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.079 in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into micro videos, linkedin 552 00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:51.199 content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's 553 00:35:51.239 --> 00:36:01.320 favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet fish media DOT com.