Should You Hire a TikTok Influencer? with Jess Flack

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:22.839 Today I am happy to have jess flak with me, Co founder and CEO 3 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:27.839 of Ubiquitous, and jess, welcome to be to be growth. Hi, 4 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:33.159 thanks for having me. I am too, because I know you really founded 5 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:38.880 ubiquitous on this belief right that Tiktok is a great way to grow a business 6 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:43.200 and reach specifically the next generation of consumers. But we're seeing everyone jump over 7 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.560 to tiktok. So you're working with creators on compelling and I know I loved 8 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:53.200 the data driven side of this as well, but data driven campaign. So 9 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:58.759 tell me a little bit about your waking up, your realization of this need 10 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:07.239 for connecting creators on Tiktok and businesses. Yeah, I would love to say 11 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:10.840 that. You know, two years ago I had this very clear vision of 12 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:18.120 exactly what ubiquitous is now today, but it didn't happen like that. I 13 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:23.200 found myself at the beginning of quarantine, in a new city, at a 14 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.920 job that I had been at for like three years as a series d stage 15 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:32.319 startup called bellhop. Absolutely loved working there, but you know, after you've 16 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.840 been at a company, especially one that's later stage and pretty large. You 17 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.120 you get in a groove and, yeah, being in a new city, 18 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:47.079 not having a lot of options to like go out and and meet people, 19 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.680 I found myself with a lot of extra time on my hands. And when 20 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.760 I first started my career, I worked in agency land, had some some 21 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:59.200 contacts and decided to get back into some contracting work, Um, just to 22 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:02.519 fill my time, UM, spend less time watching Netflix. Yeah, I've 23 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:08.840 partnered with this new music label and they were wanting me to really just put 24 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:15.319 together like their promotion strategy for their singles. And I mean the stars were 25 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:21.960 aligned because Tiktok was also just emerging as this new and exciting platform. You 26 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.879 know it used to be musically, and so it had already kind of established 27 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:30.960 itself as this powerful music engine. But in we saw how much Tiktok can 28 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:38.280 impact the billboard top one, and so it was a core piece of of 29 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:43.000 my marketing strategy that I was putting together. But I had just downloaded TIKTOK, 30 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:47.360 like I did not know what the Creator economy looked like on on tiktok 31 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:53.120 specifically. So I spent a lot of time, a lot of hours collecting 32 00:02:53.199 --> 00:03:00.120 rights from over two hundred influencers and just found that. I mean the rates 33 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.039 we're getting back were incredible. It's like a fourth of the cost of Instagram 34 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.360 influencers and as six of the cost of Youtube influencers. Yeah, because I 35 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:14.319 had partnered with agencies in the past when I was working in house at that 36 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.840 start up, bell hop Um, and we had run influencer campaigns and so 37 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.960 I kind of I was already familiar with what the kind of status quo was 38 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:28.479 for these other channels and what the process looked like. But going over to 39 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.159 Tiktok, it was just such a new channel. Nothing had really been standardized, 40 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:38.639 both from rates and also like process Um like, and it just became 41 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:43.800 really exciting to me. So just over time, uh started pulling in more 42 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:49.680 and more friends, working initially again through this label for them, but then 43 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.840 it started to grow where we're creating relationships with these creators. Okay, how 44 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.120 can we help them? What are the problems that they're having? Oh, 45 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.439 they need help like negotiating with all these brands that are coming to them and 46 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.319 hitting up their inbox. Okay, well, we could do that for them, 47 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:08.439 and so we started off doing that and then decided, okay, now 48 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:13.039 we have all these great brand connects. How can we take their single creator 49 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:18.720 campaigns and like grow it into a full fledged, you know, fifteen fifty 50 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.959 creator campaign? Um, all right, let's go get more outbound creators. 51 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.720 And so, yeah, that's kind of how we got started it. It's 52 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:33.160 definitely been an evolution, but we've we have arrived at least to the point 53 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:38.279 of having a lot of like clear focus and vision into what we're creating and 54 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:44.120 the problems that we're trying to solve in the influencer industry as a whole. 55 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:48.279 M I know there's probably many that are in the place where they're just kind 56 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:54.519 of like looking on, but haven't attempted much on Tiktok and we've had some 57 00:04:54.600 --> 00:05:00.199 conversations here on the show, but not really around the creator economy. What 58 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:03.560 are some of the maybe misconceptions you think people have from the outside looking in 59 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:11.600 on Tiktok as a platform and the Creator economy specifically? Yeah, I mean 60 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:17.040 I think for for a lot of brands, and and I'll speak more specifically 61 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:23.120 to tiktok since that's our bread and butter, but I think the reminder that 62 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.040 you're dealing with humans on the other end, like it's not just, you 63 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.040 know, an ad, it is human and a lot of times, especially 64 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:36.439 on Tiktok, you're talking to really young creators who have kind of fallen into 65 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:43.839 this have just recently gained popularity. So, as a brand, the way 66 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:48.639 that you're interacting with creators makes a really big impact on the success that you'll 67 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:54.680 have even long term, because the creator community is pretty tighten it and small, 68 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:58.800 smaller than you think, and I know that there are some brands that 69 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:02.639 are pretty much blacklo sit through the creative community by sending out really low ball 70 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:08.000 offers or just being really Um, you know, difficult to work with. 71 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:13.120 So I think understanding that it's also your brand's reputation on the line every time 72 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:16.879 that you're reaching out Um, and taking it that seriously Um, is something 73 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:21.519 to always keep in mind. I also think understanding the channel, like spending 74 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:27.199 time on Tiktok, and understanding the tone. If you think about like twitter 75 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:33.360 and reddit versus Instagram, like very different culture. Like you cannot be a 76 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:38.959 Nube on reddit and like try to fit in. You've got to spend time 77 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:43.759 before you start speaking the same language and before you can can really make an 78 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.720 impact on those types of channels and Tiktok's the same way. So understanding the 79 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:55.399 tone, understanding the way the content appears to people and analyzing your own behavior 80 00:06:55.879 --> 00:07:00.720 on Tiktok as you're scrolling, like what's making you stop past the three second 81 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.920 mark? I think it's super important. I wonder on because we're talking to 82 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:11.160 like this B two B marketing audience, specifically for B two be brands. 83 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:15.759 What what would you say the process of like choosing a creator looks like, 84 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:20.319 because we all see brands at large, especially B two C, tapping into 85 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:26.079 this creator economy, influencers, but B two B tends to like be a 86 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.800 little bit behind and also maybe a bit more unsure on how they would capitalize 87 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:34.079 on on something like this. Oh, totally, and I think it makes 88 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:39.199 sense. B Two B is all about the audience, you know. It's 89 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.720 all about who you're targeting and making sure that you're not wasting spend um talking 90 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:48.120 to an audience that would never be in your target market, and so I 91 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:54.240 understand for a lot of B two B companies their hesitation with dipping their toe 92 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.680 into something that, in a lot of ways, is considered to be a 93 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.639 top of funnel, more brand awareness channel, but I would argue that there 94 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.360 are different tactics and different strategies that any brand can utilize with B two B, 95 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:13.040 D two C, and it's it's all about defining what the goal is 96 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:18.000 and then mapping the strategies so that you're you're ultimately accomplishing that goal. So 97 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.839 always start with intent and then kind of work your way out from there and 98 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:30.519 understands like again, the channel, the platform, and also with Creator selection. 99 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.879 Kind of back to your original question, I think a lot of brands, 100 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.120 and specifically B two B brands, can focus on like followers size, 101 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.919 and we always base our rates off of average views. Well, we actually 102 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.840 have like an algorithm that that has like predicted views and it scraps it off 103 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.360 of like they're in the last nine videos and takes it into account like sponsored 104 00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:00.799 posts. But for anyone, you can find the average views of the creator 105 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:05.279 that you're interested in and base your rates off of like a target CPM for 106 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.440 based on their average views. That's the best way that you know that you're 107 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:16.759 going to to get the distribution that you need and also just understand like if 108 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.240 your goal is conversion, then you might want to look for some more niche 109 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.639 creators. You know, you, you, and those can be a little 110 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:30.720 bit more expensive. You know, it's the old supply and demand uh conundrum 111 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:37.000 where, you know, if you have if you're a SAS sales platform and 112 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.639 you're looking for creators that promote solutions for for other businesses in the sales world, 113 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:50.320 the supply is a lot lower on creators that specifically create that content, 114 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.320 but the audience quality is really high. Um, they're not just getting the 115 00:09:54.440 --> 00:10:00.200 random followers that you'll see from more generic accounts. And so maybe that is 116 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:05.240 the avenue that that you need to take and you might see higher cpms but 117 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:11.320 you'll see more direct performance. If you're looking for your intent is just brand 118 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:15.200 awareness, then you can go with some of those more generic creators. Have 119 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:20.679 a lower CPM, more efficient spend, but you will likely not see as 120 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.879 much, you know, direct performance from each individual post. The attribution window 121 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.399 will be much wider, much longer, because you're kind of looking for this 122 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.519 halo effect of like okay, what what happens to my direct traffic and my 123 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:39.279 organic traffic over time now that people are seeing me on Tiktok, even if 124 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.960 I'm not driving home like a conversion type of message. So yeah, I 125 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:50.120 always start with intent, look at the Creator's average views. Also go even 126 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:54.600 a step deeper into some qualitative data and like look through their comments and see 127 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:58.159 do they have inside jokes with their followers, like how close are they? 128 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:03.080 Because you don't want to align yourself with a creator that maybe, maybe they 129 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.759 have a large following but they're kind of infamous, you know, they don't 130 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:11.200 have the best reputation. So there's there's a lot of work that can go 131 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.519 into creator selection, but I think the brands that do Tiktok well go through 132 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.879 those additional steps to ensure that they're selecting the right creators from the job. 133 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:22.639 Yeah, I think it's interesting because, like, for our audience, you're 134 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.360 gonna have people that just aren't there yet. Most of the people that actually 135 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.200 clicked on this episode. You're listening to this right now, you're going, 136 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:31.799 okay, I am bought in. I'm just like trying to learn more and 137 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.279 I'm ready to like actually go for it. So we're not going to spend 138 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.720 time like maybe trying to convince you to do this, but I think at 139 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:45.399 the same time, like there's so many questions you could ask to make sure 140 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:50.759 you're doing this correctly, and I would even say at it's most basic level, 141 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:54.200 even if we can grasp how you could utilize like influencer marketing, which 142 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.480 I think I had a decent grasp on before talking to you. I love 143 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.480 that that you had some like unconventional options of how to think about this and 144 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.080 things that you know. I guess I'll bring up two strategies specifically that I 145 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.440 want to hear you go into detail on. One was just using creators for 146 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:15.759 content creations specifically, and then the second one is using influencers to generate like 147 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.440 these virals sort of PR campaigns. Walk me through these two because I don't 148 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.480 know that and maybe I'm just dumb, I don't know, but like I 149 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.559 didn't think through that route of Tiktok and to me that was some of the 150 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:35.600 most interesting kind of thought provoking stuff. Totally. Yeah, so content creation, 151 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.879 like using creators on tiktok specifically for content creation is such a great way 152 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:48.200 to get started with with utilizing tiktok creators. Number One. Even if you're 153 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:54.399 running ads on Instagram, youtube, you're running commercials, you see the TIKTOK 154 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.679 format being adapted on all of these other platforms and it's so engaging. People 155 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.440 like it clicks for people, like right off the bat, they want to 156 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.600 stop and they want to see what it's all about. Um. So utilizing 157 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:13.600 creators for for both your organic pages, so you know you can partner with 158 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.519 creators and they can produce three to five videos for you each month. You 159 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:22.879 can bundle those those deals and that will be more economically efficient for the brand, 160 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.039 but it also kind of gives you those brand ambassadors where you know your 161 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.679 audience will start associating, Um, these creators with, with who you are 162 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.279 as a brand, which is always, you know, an added bonus, 163 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:41.440 especially whenever you're maybe dealing in an industry that can be somewhat that can lack 164 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.799 personality. It's a great way to kind of personify your brand, like find 165 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:50.879 those really fun, engaging creators and kind of start to associate who they are 166 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:58.759 with with who you are. It's also great for or using tiktok creators for 167 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:03.840 content creation is great because you kind of don't need to worry about metrics as 168 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.720 much anymore. Like the distribution is off the table at that point. So 169 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:13.039 average views, follower account you can find these really niche or really they could 170 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.720 even be general creators, as long as they're good at creating content. They 171 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.879 can have a small following, but you're not using them for their distribution anymore. 172 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:28.600 So it's a very economically efficient way to get content stood up and then 173 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:33.919 start putting paid ad dollars behind it. And let's say you haven't done influencer 174 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.360 marketing before and it's a little bit unnerving to, you know, allocate ten 175 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.480 percent of your monthly budget into just an influencer campaign. Maybe that's a really 176 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.200 big swing right off the bat. But if you create the content, test 177 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:52.919 out all these different strategies with inexpensive creators, put paid spin behind it, 178 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.480 see how your audience that you're actually targeting through, you know, these ad 179 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:03.399 channels responds, that's like the best proxy for now. You can take that, 180 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:11.440 use that in your creative brief for influencers in the future and then you 181 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.960 you already know like what your audience is responding to well. So it's it's 182 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.120 a very good tactic for also just even informing what your influencer campaigns can look 183 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:28.120 like. And then for the viral prps. I think what's funny about Tiktok 184 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.840 is that, again, it's like permeated into our culture so much and you 185 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:41.919 can really manufacture virality on tiktok fairly easily if you want to. So what 186 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:45.480 I mean by that is, like you can create the story, you can 187 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.840 work with creators, have them posted to their organic page, that they're not 188 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:54.480 just creating the content, they're actually distributing it to their audience. But you 189 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.159 can select those more generic creators. You can do a mix of generic and 190 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.399 niche creators, draft this story through the briefs that you're sending to them, 191 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:08.240 have them produce and promote content and then package that and go through publishers. 192 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:15.879 You know, you see content about Tiktok on pretty much every major publication. 193 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:22.080 I mean I feel like Buzzfeed is pumping out like ten TIKTOK lists today for 194 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:29.200 for every vertical, and so there it's engaging content. Publishers want it and 195 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.000 you can kind of create the story that you want to then get syndicated to 196 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:37.840 your target audience and, you know, find the more niche publications that that 197 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.440 you know that they're reading and engaging with. I love both of those. 198 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.639 I wonder do you have any like examples of either of those that come to 199 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.240 mind where, like you've just seen this done really well and it doesn't even 200 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:49.120 have to be and B, two B, but just to get our minds 201 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:55.840 kind of thinking on it. Yeah, actually, Um, and it is 202 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:02.600 a B, two B brand sage Um. So they actually ran a challenge 203 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:10.880 and there is a cash bonus and they called it the Hashtag bosst campaign and 204 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:17.480 they had creators used a particular sound talk about how they're bossing up their year 205 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:22.480 because they're like an HR and an HR solution, and so they, you 206 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:30.079 know, support internal teams and anyway, so they ran this challenge. They 207 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.160 had a cash bonus of like five thousand dollars to like the top creator Um 208 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.839 or to the top post, and a few prizes. And you know, 209 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:44.720 the post did well. There was a video that actually got like twenty seven 210 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.680 plus million views. So I mean it killed it from a distribution perspective. 211 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:53.920 But they also used all of that content and push it out through publishers and 212 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.960 have a dedicated page on their site, like using it as kind of a 213 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:03.119 case study. And so there's so many there are so many different kind of 214 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:08.480 utilities and I think trying to maximize the utility out of each post is is 215 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.960 really critical if you're wanting to yield, you know, the greatest R O. 216 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:18.480 I from each influencer engagement that you you have interesting. Yeah, let's 217 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.519 stick on our O I for a second. Let's talk a little bit about 218 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.039 attribution. That's probably I was thinking about it, like maybe not the biggest 219 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.519 pushback I get from brands, but there is some skepticism. They're like, 220 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.720 okay, if it's not just like this top of funnel thing, then what 221 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.960 are we actually doing here? How would we actually attribute it? And you 222 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.440 did bring it up a little bit earlier, but take me further down that 223 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:47.160 road and you're thinking how do you track maybe best practices for brands around attribution? 224 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.319 Yeah, I mean attribution. It's it's always a pain point and I 225 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:59.799 it's not exclusive to influence our marketing. You know, it's it ever since 226 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:06.839 late when IOS fourteen came out, um it kind of rendled. Rendered pixels 227 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:11.720 not useless, but they became much less useful because we lost a lot of 228 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.279 like mobile device tracking and in a way it actually created a much more even 229 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:23.839 playing field for influencer campaigns and even like offline Um campaigns. So I mean 230 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.319 there are a few different ways that you can view attribution. You know. 231 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.079 I know that a lot of B two B companies and D two C um, 232 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.519 but particularly B two B. They might have, you know, a 233 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:38.200 more automated solution. You know, they could use like a multi touch or 234 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:44.759 an offline attribution platform like demand jump or measured or leads, our x, 235 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.079 and you know that will do the multi touch kind of attribution for you, 236 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.039 Um, but for the majority of us out there, and those solutions tend 237 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.319 to be very expensive and maybe you're just wanting to test this out really small 238 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:03.039 scale to start. So my advice to brands is, of course, using 239 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.920 UTM links in your BIOS, use tracking coupon codes, you know, make 240 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:14.119 try to create as much of a safeess, like a you know, of 241 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:18.599 a structure to all of these campaigns that you know exactly which video, exactly 242 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:26.079 which creator produced at least direct conversions. But for influencer campaigns, especially, 243 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.799 because the attribution window can be, you know, much longer, especially we're 244 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.319 talking about top of funnel brand awareness campaigns. We're just trying to entertain and 245 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:40.160 introduce yourself to people. What what I suggested brands to do is to look 246 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:45.960 in their Google analytics, look at their direct, organic and unattributable traffic lines 247 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:51.799 and and measure lift. So you know, if you, if all those 248 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.640 posts went live on a Wednesday. Measure that week over week, month over 249 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:02.240 month, you over year, and get that person to lift percentage and then, 250 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:08.119 and then multiply that times your conversions during that period and by your revenue 251 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:14.200 during that period through those line items, and then that's an easy way to 252 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:22.079 get that multi touch attribution and to to give Tiktok or instagram the the credit 253 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.079 that that it deserves. If you're looking at all of your data in a 254 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.759 silo and only looking at direct conversions forever, then as a brand, you 255 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:37.960 will plateau at a certain point because you're never reaching that new audience. You're 256 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:45.279 only spending your money on low funnel direct conversion channels, which I mean for 257 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.480 most brands they will have like a last touch attribution model Um and you'll just 258 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:56.279 continue spending to an audience that is either familiar with you or is only talking 259 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.960 to the people that are like in market today. But in order to see 260 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.519 real long term growth, and of course every company has their different various stages, 261 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:08.839 but once you're at the stage, at the maturity level, I should 262 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:14.079 say as a company, where you're able to invest in more mid funnel in 263 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:19.480 top of funnel campaigns, applying that multi touch attribution model is pretty critical in 264 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:25.519 order to analyze those channels against each other. Yeah, the other thing I 265 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:30.240 wanted to talk about as we're seeing a lot of brands jump on Tiktok. 266 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.960 They're bringing it in house and have you know someone on their marketing team that's 267 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.759 driving this? What do you think is like the best way? What would 268 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:45.759 you advise as far as having your influencer marketing and you're in house tiktok creators, 269 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:52.599 like working in tandem and creating lift in unison? You know, obviously 270 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:56.720 the influencer is going to add a component, which is fantastic and add some 271 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.880 lift, but do you see some some great ways to those two can work 272 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.960 in tandem? Oh, totally, totally. I'm I'm always an advocate for 273 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.799 trying to stand up something internally and testing it out on a small scale before 274 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:18.279 releasing the hounds Um and really putting gas on the fire. So I think 275 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:23.400 using your in house teams to create content for your organic channels is a great 276 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.920 way to start and and using them for you know, you can test your 277 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:34.599 in house created ads against your content that you you've used influencers to create in 278 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:41.079 ads and see kind of you can bulk up at least the number of ads 279 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.640 that you're you're testing against each other by utilizing those in house teams, and 280 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:52.640 once you can see which ad is the most successful or which strategy is the 281 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:57.039 most successful, then that can inform you know, your influencer campaigns whenever you're 282 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:02.839 ready to take it from one to a hundred. You know, the in 283 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.480 house teams to me are like perfect for zero to one, and then influencers 284 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:12.680 and actually usually their distribution is is how you get real scale totally. Well, 285 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.240 as we're starting to wrap up here, I'd love some examples. I 286 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:22.880 did this to Emily Brady. She's on our team, she's does our in 287 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.240 house tiktok stuff, and so I would make her give me examples people I 288 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:33.759 should be following. I'd love from you specifically examples of influence or tiktok campaigns 289 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.119 or people we should go check out and learn from, if you have some. 290 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.559 Yeah, so a brand that we probably all knew very well shopify. 291 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:47.880 Um, they do a great job. They have a nice mix of uh, 292 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.880 client success stories, advice for entrepreneurs and then just some really off the 293 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.880 wall, uh entertaining kind of viral quote unquote content, Um, where they're 294 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:03.240 utilizing TIKTOK trends and in corporating it into what we call like edutainment content. 295 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:10.680 Yeah, I remember you use that term also. But they you can tell 296 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:17.279 that their strategy is is very much focused on Um acquisition and an awareness, 297 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:22.880 like they are still talking to their their core audience with every post in one 298 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.720 way or another, even with the more entertaining stuff. And then on the 299 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.279 other side of that coin, Um Audio Studios. Um, it's O D 300 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:37.880 D I o Um. So they probably have not heard of them unless you're 301 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.759 on Tiktok Lot. I've seen their content. Um. It's actually a fully 302 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:48.519 artist studio. So they work with you know, production companies or creating background 303 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:56.240 sounds and their content is super quirky, very engaging. Um, they really 304 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.640 understand TIKTOK and the culture, which again and is super important. So you 305 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.440 never want to come off as like a try hard on on on social as 306 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:11.440 a brand especially, but you can tell that they're targeting like the consideration stage 307 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.680 of the funnel. They're not necessarily using tiktok to find new business, but 308 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.640 they're using TIKTOK as a way to show their personality and to apply that additional 309 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:27.839 like credibility, um, whenever maybe someone that like a production studio is looking 310 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.160 at their social profiles before they reach out or looking at you know, trying 311 00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:37.079 to understand who they are. They're very personality forward. And again, I 312 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:42.559 think just understanding the intent in the position that tiktok plays both your organic your 313 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:47.920 influencer, all of it. What piece is it playing in your funnel, 314 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:53.000 because it really can fit into both awareness, consideration and conversion Um. But 315 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:57.240 the content and the strategy needs to change just depending on the intent. I 316 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:02.920 love both those and I don't follow either, so I will go follow both 317 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:07.720 after this. Yes, the one that emily mentioned, and you mentioned offline 318 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.759 too, is dual lingo and uh, that's like the recurring example right now. 319 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.480 So if you don't follow them, go do that. It's a it's 320 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.599 fun, it'll make you smile, it's great. Oh Gosh, yeah, 321 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:23.400 they have such a sense of humor and yeah, so many inside jokes like 322 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:29.440 their fault. Their followers just know that they get it, like there's just 323 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.160 a lot of trust and like a deep relationship, and so, yeah, 324 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.119 their content is kind of crazy, but I absolutely love it. I think 325 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.440 they're killing it. Okay, so I want you just to leave us with 326 00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:45.640 like a homework assignment, like give us a give us an action item that's 327 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.880 coming out of this conversation, because you are probably talking to be two B 328 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:53.519 marketers that are specifically like ready to do something, especially if they've hung with 329 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.079 us for thirty minutes here and they're like, okay, I know, Tiktok 330 00:27:57.319 --> 00:28:00.680 is something I need to do. We wanted to you, we want to 331 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:03.319 partner with influencers, but like, what's the thing we should be trying? 332 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:10.240 Okay, stab number one, get to know tiktok. If you haven't downloaded 333 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:15.599 the the APP, great an account. Spend some time on it Um at 334 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.319 first. If it's kind of not your jam, just know that the algorithm 335 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.680 is really great and it works really quickly and it'll start showing you content that 336 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.680 you care about. But yeah, get to know. Get to know the 337 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.599 platform first. Understand m the culture, in the tone and the vibe before 338 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:37.000 you start producing anything. And UH, number two. You know, I 339 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:42.599 would say kind of anyway that you can set up some social monitoring to you 340 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:48.039 know, whether it's you, just as an individual, spending time and and 341 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:53.200 keeping track of like trends that maybe you can biggie piggyback off of it's time. 342 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.920 is of the essence. I mean Tiktok can often be like a flash 343 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:02.559 in the PAN or a Tiktok post can go VI role overnight and the next 344 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.519 day there's there's always just new, new content coming out. So try to 345 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:11.160 find those trends where you're seeing a lot of organic adoption and and find a 346 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.279 way to insert your brand voice into that trend Um. It's a great way 347 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.039 to be discovered outside of the four you page. So yeah, do that 348 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:25.559 and then test small and then scale. You know, decide what is a 349 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:32.079 significant enough testing budgets so that you know you can have statistical significance at the 350 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:34.680 end of the campaign to know if it worked or not. But also don't 351 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.799 test too large to where, if you know your CAC blows up that month 352 00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.480 and it looks like a failure, the worst thing you could do is just 353 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.359 cut any you know, cut it after a single month because it looked like 354 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:52.400 it failed. So use those internal teams or get creators to create content for 355 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.480 you to put paid ads then behind. Get to understand what strategies are going 356 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.960 to work for you before you you scale and and start investing more and more. 357 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.720 Yeah, those would be the that's the homework. Well, thank you 358 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.880 for spending some time with us on B two, B growth. For those 359 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.319 wanting to check out ubiquitous, what's the best way for us to do that 360 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:18.839 and then also stay connected to you? Yeah, so our website is ubiquitous 361 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.160 influence dot com, and the best way to get in contact with us is 362 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.759 just through the form on our website. Um, if you want to shoot 363 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.759 us an email directly, feel free to email hello at ubiquitous influence dot com. 364 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:34.920 Got You know, all of our sales people ready to respond. And 365 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.960 if you want to give us a follow two, we're ubiquitous official on all 366 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.640 social platforms. Perfect. Yes, thank you, jess. I appreciate you 367 00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.839 stopping by. Yeah, thanks, Bingji, for all of our listeners that 368 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:53.400 have checked out this episode. If you haven't followed B two, B growth 369 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.960 yet, be sure to do that and uh, never miss an episode. 370 00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.960 And then, if you want to connect with me, I would love to 371 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.039 chat with you over on Linkedin. You can. I'm talking about marketing business 372 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.000 in life over there all the time and would love to hear from you. 373 00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:11.079 So reach out. Thank you for listening and we'll be back real soon with 374 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:25.839 another episode. B Two B growth is brought to you by the team at 375 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:29.119 sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish we produced podcasts for some of the 376 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.440 most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into micro 377 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.720 videos linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce 378 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:48.640 every leader's favorite show. Want more information? Visit Sweet Fish Media Dot Com.