Refine Labs Changed Their Pricing - Here's Our Take | The Echo Chamber

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.160 Welcome back to the Echo Chamber, a little series we're playing around with here 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.640 on B twob growth. My name is James Carberry, I'm the founder of 4 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.640 sweet fish and I'm joined today by Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, 5 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:32.399 and today we are going to be talking about refined labs, the darling 6 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:37.159 of B Two b marketing land right now, and how they have recently changed 7 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:40.679 their pricing a bit. So I got a text message from you, Dan, 8 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:44.039 the other day and you were like, Hey, this is super interesting. 9 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:48.560 Refined labs load their highest tier price uh and before, I believe, 10 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.240 they only had one price. It was like thirty eight K a month, 11 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:55.840 and now their highest tier prices thirty one five, their lowest tier prices fifteen. 12 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.159 You can also work with them at nineteen five a month or two or 13 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:00.840 five a month. So ill like, relatively, I mean, we're an 14 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.359 agency, our pricing does not look like this. I thought this was a 15 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.079 really smart move for them to capture more of the market that they have so 16 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.040 much attention in right now. But Dan, what were your thoughts? You 17 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.760 were obviously the one that sent me the text. So what was going off 18 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.400 in your head when you saw this? Man? As soon as I saw 19 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.359 this, I was like, oh my gosh. One, did I change 20 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:23.359 their pricing tier? Two, I actually know what they're doing. Now. 21 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.680 For two years I've been kind of watching their website as they've grown in popularity, 22 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:33.079 and there they would just offer one price point and every quarter it seemed 23 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.040 like it went up by a multiple of five k a month. So it's 24 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:40.879 like fifteen thirty and I was like how high can it go? Like, 25 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.280 what do they what do they even do? It's like one of the first 26 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:46.599 things I check when I'm trying to check out our products. I go to 27 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.519 the pricing page before I even go to the product page, because usually the 28 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.239 pricing page gives way more clarity as to what the heck you're buying. Right. 29 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.200 I don't know what it is with Sassin, like B two B services, 30 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.439 but the pricing page is gold as far as like what this company's actually 31 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.599 about, what their offer is and everything. So I when I finally went 32 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.359 to refined labs and saw the pricing tiers, they gave a really clear snapshot 33 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.039 of as too, far as what the value they were offering, how they 34 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:13.439 were pricing it and how they broke it out. It's also an indicator of 35 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.520 kind of what's going on in the economy. They probably could have stayed on 36 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.039 that same pricing tier had demand kept going up. Why Change? It's kind 37 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.120 of like people are knocking, beating down your door without a lot of clarity, 38 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.599 without a lot of pricing options. Just keep only offering them the highest 39 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.680 price tier. Why do more? But the SAS market, the tech market 40 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:34.960 overall, is kind of taken a hit over the last six months and that 41 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.800 kind of changes things. So now they've had to pull back their top price 42 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:42.439 and offer more options, which I think is an indicator of what's going on 43 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:46.360 in the market for somebody who has as much demand as refined labs. Yeah, 44 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.919 I think it's so smart. I've talked to people on their team about 45 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.520 kind of the evolution of their pricing and and how they were just doing paid 46 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:59.439 ads and then they started layering in creative. So that was a reason for 47 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.800 a price ump and then and then they started layering in. It was either 48 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.719 consulting or there was some element of blanking. Right now on like kind of 49 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:12.639 how they how they phased it up. But right now on their on their 50 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.280 side. For fifteen km months you get demand advisory. So it's essentially just 51 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.120 consulting. It says you execute with our strategic advice. The next phase up 52 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.719 at nineteen five. Uh, they actually help you with your paid media and 53 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:30.319 then you phase up to four five and that's you know what they what they 54 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.800 have on here is you want to be a category leader. So they're loading 55 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:38.159 in creative. They've got to know they've if you look at their who works 56 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.039 for refined labs on Linkedin, they've got a really stacked creative team. So 57 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:46.199 now you're you're not just getting paid media, you're also getting the creative, 58 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.080 which we all know. The creative is really what makes the paid media sing. 59 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.439 And then that last stage, full service. You want maximum growth. 60 00:03:54.840 --> 00:04:00.560 I would imagine that's integrating probably more of their consulting, maybe some their higher 61 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:03.159 level consulting. I know they've got a structure where they've got a VP of 62 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:06.719 demand Gen and a director of demand Gen. You might get a little bit 63 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:11.680 more of that vp of demand Gen. I don't know for sure because they 64 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:13.960 don't have it is spelled out here. Well, I guess they do. 65 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.240 They've got a they've got checkboxes under here. So under that highest. Here 66 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.600 it says revenue insights and demand strategy, which is included for everything. Subscription 67 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:26.399 to the vault, which you know this is data insights, playbooks. This 68 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:30.959 is a product we've been seeing Chris talk about for probably close to a year 69 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.639 now. I feel like he's he's really been wanting to to product size the 70 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.279 business in this way for a while and so it looks like that's starting to 71 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.240 to come to fruition. I know they've got some Beta users in there using 72 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:46.439 that access to private community trainings and events, which again is included with everything. 73 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:53.240 Paid media optimization and execution. And then demand creation for category and brands. 74 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.519 So again a little vague on on what the actual execution is there. 75 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:01.480 But then below here create demand for category and and includes category and competitive positioning 76 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:09.800 analysis, messaging and design optimization campaigns focused on demand creation, platform specific messaging 77 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:14.680 and design, and the new campaigns launched every six to eight weeks. So 78 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.120 they're they're refreshing that creative and those key messages over and over and over again. 79 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.439 I love what these folks have done. I mean I just think, 80 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:29.519 you know, really the way they name and claim things dark social demand creation 81 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:34.879 versus demand capture they're giving B two B marketers language that we we haven't had 82 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.240 before, and some people crap on that. So well, you're just given, 83 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.199 you know, the thing that we've always known, a new word, 84 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:47.160 but they've, to me, executed it brilliantly. Chris is so consistent on 85 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:50.399 Linkedin. So I think this is a really smart move. I think they're 86 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:55.240 gonna be able to work with now a whole lot more companies by opening up 87 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:59.519 the pricing a bit. One last insight from this page that I got that 88 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.439 I thought is really smart for a B Two b service agency, and I 89 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:09.000 think sweet fish will probably do something similar in the future, is that before 90 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.000 you can get to the pricing, you have to scroll through a different part 91 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.879 of this. The top part of this is, uh, your your refined 92 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.839 labs demand creation team. So they're giving you pictures of like the team that's 93 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:20.920 going to work for you. Because once you look at the price and you're 94 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:25.439 like thirty one K A month, a month, I could hire a couple 95 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.600 of people for that, like well paid people. What's stopping me from doing 96 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:30.879 it? Well, but can you hire all six of these people and can 97 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.639 you actually attracted to come work for you? The same way refined labs can. 98 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:39.240 That's the difference and that's what he's using it by putting that on tops 99 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:42.199 like well, you get access to a VP of demand Gen a director demands 100 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.160 and a performance marketer, creative director, senior graphic designer and senior copywriter, 101 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.079 all going to work to make your brand number one. Can you do that 102 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:53.319 for thirty one K A month? Probably that's what they're trying to position by 103 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:57.319 putting these roles up front, and it's smart. It's super smart because that's 104 00:06:57.319 --> 00:06:59.639 the first thing I think of a marketer. As a marketer, I'm like, 105 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:01.839 can I recreate this on my own? Yeah, and if you know 106 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.680 refined labs and have already been like eating up what he's been putting down on 107 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:09.279 Linkedin and on his podcast, you look at that and you're like nope, 108 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:14.279 probably can't. Um At least I imagine that's probably what's going through most people's 109 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.720 heads as they're visiting this page. So it was just a smart move for 110 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:20.519 a service agency to do, to put that upfront. Yeah, I think 111 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:24.680 it's super smart. Again, I think Chris is doing a lot of smart 112 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:26.959 stuff. Christ and team over there, or fine labs, are doing a 113 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.839 lot of smart stuff. So I really enjoyed this conversation. Dan. We're 114 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.120 gonna do it again. If you are listening to this and you're you're liking 115 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:39.959 these echo chamber episodes. In last week we broke down an episode are on 116 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:45.040 Nick Bennett and something that he did gifting folks that are are fans of of 117 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.639 Alice when they gave g two reviews. Is it ethical? Is it not 118 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.759 ethical? We broke that down, so if you haven't listened to that episode, 119 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.240 go back and listen to that episode. Uh, and we're going to 120 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.920 do another one of these next week as well. If you're liking these echo 121 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.680 chamber episodes, just reach out to Dan or my self on Linkedin and let 122 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.639 us know. 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