Operationalize Your Way to Success, with Michelle Tilton

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:17.559 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B Growth Today. 2 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:21.359 On B two B Growth, I am joined by Michelle Tilton. She 3 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:26.160 is the VP of marketing over at Griffin AI and uh, Michelle is great 4 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.800 to get to chat with you today. Hey, Benji is super excited to 5 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:34.119 be here today. So I'm excited because we're gonna spend some time really discussing 6 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:39.439 the need and the power of operationalizing and marketing specifically and kind of just working 7 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:44.119 to measure to observe, systematize things so that hopefully we get you know, 8 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.640 better consistent results. I think that's that's the goal of everyone listening to this 9 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:53.640 podcast clearly. So you told me, you know before, that streamlining functions 10 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:57.119 and creating cohesion is like one of your main focuses. It's one of your 11 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.439 biggest passions. Tell me where that kind of started for you, Michelle, 12 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.000 What has made that something that really is? Like, Man, I care 13 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:07.120 a lot about this, So I think I think when you find your passion, 14 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.359 it's usually because it comes from a frustration of some problem that you can't 15 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.159 solve, right, And I think the biggest challenge has always been inefficiency. 16 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.159 So three and four people on a on a call or on a meeting about 17 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.200 the same topic, who really aren't all totally involved with that topic, but 18 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.799 inefficiency. So you can ask anybody who knows me, inefficiency is a pet 19 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.959 peeve of mine, right, And so I think this has sort of manifested 20 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:36.120 itself into the marketing arena where you start looking at departments, especially once in 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.920 in startup or early growth mode, where you typically do have a generalist or 22 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:46.480 one or two staff who are crossing each other continuously, which is necessary to 23 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.879 get the work done right. But as you grow that is no longer a 24 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:57.239 practice that leads to massive growth. So I think that being able to start 25 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:02.359 streamlining is such a big part of the growth an organization and and really empowers 26 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:06.519 certain staff to really hone in on what they're good at instead of being a 27 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:09.639 generalist. So I think both things are beneficial to both the organization and to 28 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:14.199 the team on anybody on the marketing team, whether it's marketing, products, 29 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.039 sales, you know, what have you. But I always say this, 30 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:20.560 they said that you can give a dollar to a million people or a million 31 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.560 dollars to one person, what's going to be the bigger impact. It's that 32 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:28.719 focused attention on on one area where you can make a huge impact and also 33 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.400 not be inefficient across the rest of the team. M hmm. That's good. 34 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.319 Okay. So I wonder like, as you've been on teams that expand 35 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.960 and you're working to in your mind is thinking like streamlined functionality, you're really 36 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:46.840 like wanting that focus. What have you seen be like the biggest hurdles, 37 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.840 the things that stand in the way, the roadblocks from that functionality. So 38 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.960 I think there's kind of two areas, right. It's one is from a 39 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.400 personnel standpoint, Right, you do typically have someone who is going to be 40 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.520 in a role who feels that that twinge of wait a minute, but I 41 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:08.840 used to do that right and overcoming that where you're empowering them to grow fully 42 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.879 into the role that they want to proceed within. So, for instance, 43 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.520 if you're a marketing generalist and you really love marketing operations, or if you 44 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:21.199 really love demand gen it's really tough to do all of those things well. 45 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.840 But if you can focus in on one of those two streamlined functions, man, 46 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.240 you have an opportunity to grow your career and to better contribute to the 47 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.599 ORG. So I think it's that first, and I've been through these two. 48 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.879 By the way, it's not it's not like I'm coming in from the 49 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.879 outside and saying do as I say, not as I do. I've been 50 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:38.280 through those before, and in the long run, it has been the best 51 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:43.000 thing that happened to me was being able to hone in on what you're really 52 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.199 passionate about and good at and giving up some of those tasks to some other 53 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.080 function that might either be better at it or might be more suited for it. 54 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.919 So I think that's one of them. I think the other thing is 55 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:59.039 really getting people to understand as a whole why it's important not just to streamline 56 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.280 into operational, but to get down to the metric level. So well, 57 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.080 I think we're gonna talk a little bit, probably more about metrics a bit 58 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:11.360 here, but I think empowering people to understand the value of metrics and this 59 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:17.240 and the repeatability of results necessary for your board, for your executive team, 60 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.120 so they can believe that whatever you do is going to be repeatable and they 61 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:25.720 can count on it month after month, quarter after quarter. Both of those 62 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.680 are really good. I could see there being like a fear in like a 63 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:30.959 marketing generalist perspective like, oh, don't take this out of like my hands 64 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.600 kind of and you're just like, especially as you grow, like there's just 65 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:38.759 necessity that comes like oh, we gotta switch where like who's doing this thing? 66 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:42.399 So that's I wonder. It's just kind of like a follow up rabbit 67 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.759 trail question here for a second. But as you think of that, how 68 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:50.079 do you have those kind of consistent conversations are like org, you know, 69 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.279 readjustments where you're like, oh, this is changing in our team. Is 70 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.240 it something that you in your mind are revisiting on like a consistent cadence or 71 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.560 is it something that's just like as needed. So typically you have to revisit 72 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.319 it because there's always that natural feeling of someone wanting to oh, you know, 73 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:08.279 I used to do that. I can help you out with that kind 74 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.439 of feeling, right, And so there does have to be consistent conversation to 75 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.759 say, you know what, I know you can do that, and I 76 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.319 appreciate that you can do that, and you've done it well in the past, 77 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.600 but you so many things on your plate right now. Let's really focus 78 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.519 on these functions and let's let this other person grow into their role with some 79 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.879 of these new functions. And and we'll work together to make that a really 80 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.199 smooth process. But I do think it does take a consistent conversation because I 81 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:38.800 do believe there's a lot of and I and historically know that there's been there's 82 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.120 always that feeling of a twins like, oh, let me hope I can 83 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.920 do that or I used to do that, so I definitely can help. 84 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.399 Well, you know the necessity of letting go a little bit, but to 85 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.839 know that it's for the greater good of both the company but also your future 86 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:55.360 growth. It's always got to come back to the employee also, right, 87 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.160 because because there are people and they want to grow and they want to advance 88 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.720 in their careers, it has to be beneficial to both sides. It might 89 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:06.319 be counterintuitive, but it Like I think one of the weird like upside down 90 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:11.319 ways of thinking is at a certain point, you being a busybody and marketing 91 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:12.839 and like you're being like, oh, I know how to do that. 92 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.480 I'll jump in you like you can see some like the elevator going up in 93 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.399 your career to a certain point, and then it hits like a cap where 94 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.560 you're like, oh, by being a busybody and like trying to be just 95 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.839 like doing everything, I actually limit myself from potential growth at a certain point. 96 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.279 So having that switch in your mind to go, Okay, I need 97 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.040 to do some things like really well and not feel like what I add to 98 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:40.959 the organization is just that I do everything That is such a hack And I 99 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:42.959 don't know if I would call it a hack, but like it's it's a 100 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.519 mentality shift. Does that make sense? You are a d percent spot on 101 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.040 it is in anybody that I've talked to you in their marketing career too, 102 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:55.360 who say I do I do X plus X plus X plus X plus x 103 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.639 and you're You're like, well, what do you want to do? That's 104 00:06:57.639 --> 00:06:59.839 always my first question is what do you want to do? What do you 105 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.800 yourself doing long term? Because we can then streamline you into the more strategic 106 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:09.240 thinking. And I think there's there's the biggest hurdle to overcome for most people 107 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.720 in their growth is they want to be strategic, right, they all want 108 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:17.680 to grow, but there is a big responsibility that comes with being strategic and 109 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:26.680 having to think through campaign's programs, the whole organization, marketing organization as a 110 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.759 whole. I think there's a year there. I mean it's a lot of 111 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:32.240 people will say I'm strategic, and you know, you you have to really 112 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:35.600 understand what that means. And if you can enable people to have a little 113 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:40.839 bit more time within their core function to come up for air and to think 114 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.639 through it at a much higher level, man, you will really start to 115 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:48.360 grow and they understand the power of that function within the whole work. And 116 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:53.439 I think strategic thinking is a big hot button for me because that's I think 117 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.199 that's the biggest key for someone to take that next step, is to be 118 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.800 able to think strategically interesting. Okay, so I want us to like, 119 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.040 essentially paint a picture. I want you to paint a picture for me of 120 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:11.040 what you feel like an organization that's operating at a excellent operational capacity would look 121 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.600 like like this is the ten out of ten would recommend like excellent operational organization? 122 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.399 What are they doing right? What are they getting right? In your 123 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.399 mind? Michelle, so I do. I'll caveat that by saying, there's 124 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.120 going to be certain size organizations that are going to have different functions because you 125 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.559 know, by the nature of the organ but I think certain things are fundamentally 126 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:37.519 similar. They're going to have systems in place that everybody is in tune with 127 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.840 what the schedule of the marketing ORGA is. They're going to know how many 128 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.600 days ahead of time that everybody needs to meet deadline. They're going to know 129 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.919 all of the metrics of the organization and why they're important, and what their 130 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.480 function contributes to those metrics, and where those metrics go. So I think, 131 00:08:54.799 --> 00:09:01.200 I think good communication from the leader to why things are important. It's 132 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:05.639 part of a really fundamentally sound organ I think understanding exactly what your swim lanes 133 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.080 are right, I think leaving no uncertainty. I think people get really uncomfortable 134 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.039 when they have uncertainty. And so if you can be really streamlined in your 135 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.639 communication about swim lanes, right here is everything in your swim lane. There 136 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.480 leaves no question for me about what I'm responsible for. And I believe operationally 137 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.639 that's super critical um having a plan right, knowing ahead of time what the 138 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:33.559 planet is so that you always can see ahead and what what the expectations are, 139 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.480 never having to question. So I believe a lot of in I think 140 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.360 having procedures and processes. I'm not a red tape person, please hear me 141 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.559 say, I do not believe in creating work for work's sake. But I 142 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:52.159 do believe there's important processes in place that needs to be followed and then reiterated 143 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.399 so that we don't lose sight of those processes because they're there for a reason. 144 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:03.879 Operationally, great handoff processes between groups right from creative to operations to the 145 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.559 various parties that need to be involved. So fantastic communication and handoff processes, 146 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.000 I think, you know, I gosh, I could probably go on and 147 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:15.320 on on that one for for a long time, but I believe a lot 148 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.039 of it stems around really solid planning and really solid communication between the between the 149 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.559 individual members of that group. What when you say planning, like, is 150 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.559 there a couple of things that you feel like you need to be over communicated 151 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.799 or anything you just want to like double down on real quicklyre the importance of 152 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:37.639 meeting deadlines and the importance of everybody working towards those deadlines so you're not leaving 153 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.559 a teammate in the whole. I think doubling down on ownership of your individual 154 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.759 role. I would double down on that. I would probably triple down on 155 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.519 that actually empowering people to own the role that they've got so that they know 156 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.559 that that what they do is an important part of that team, and when 157 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.120 they make that handoff to their team member, that team member has another port 158 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:01.080 important part to having that completed ownership. I would double on ownership all day. 159 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.879 Feel empowered to own your world and create and as as if you could 160 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.279 be any function. Right, I'm writing a blog post on that own that 161 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:15.480 to its entirety, on the process, own the deadline, on the copy. 162 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.279 Of course there's going to be help along the way, but ownership, 163 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.600 to me is a big piece of that. Yeah, and the onboarding process. 164 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.960 I find that that's like such an important thing is reiterating and then obviously 165 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.720 you're gonna also realize, like if you have ownership based on how whoever's above 166 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.799 you like kind of manages and reiterates it, because there can be that like 167 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.440 weird, I know that this is on my plate, but like how much 168 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.720 they do I actually have? And there's that weird push and pull in that 169 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.919 tension. So reiterating like, hey, own this thing, like this is 170 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.159 why you were hired and we want you to really just take control. And 171 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.639 then obviously if there's like a you're working in a team context, like allowing 172 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.320 for the spaces to be created. But I really like that you highlighted that 173 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.759 we had talked before on just like demand and and creating it and capturing it. 174 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.200 So I want to go there for a second, because that's a marketing 175 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:09.679 job ultimately, So as I think of operationalizing demand, a lot of that 176 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.399 for you and for your team has come down to being excellent around intent data 177 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.360 and like personalizing outbound. So can we go to just some strategy there and 178 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.919 like the success that you're seeing, would you talk to us about that? 179 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.960 Sure? So intent data a lot of I've been at companies before who we 180 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.440 have intent data. Well, that's great, how are you using it? 181 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:31.799 And a lot of times it's tough. It's tough. You have lists or 182 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.879 you have platforms where you go and you can pull some data, but operationalizing 183 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.759 intent data is really difficult. And I'm not going to take ownership over this. 184 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:43.840 The team that I came into, you know, prior to me coming 185 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.919 to Griffin, began this process and we have run with it full force and 186 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.919 continue to enforce it. But operationalizing all of the intent data to feedback into 187 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:58.120 our CRM and show up as a list within out in outbound outreach a section 188 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.559 of our CRM has been one of the most interesting ways that I've ever seen 189 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.480 any company do it, but also most effective because then when we do the 190 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:13.200 handoff to our BDR organization for outreach, they not only know which the intent 191 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:18.279 data leads are, but they also know exactly what intent they're showing, which 192 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.000 leads to what we what you just talked about, which is personalized outbound. 193 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.600 So let's just say I've got seven categories of intent, and I've got all 194 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.240 these companies showing up in different categories. I know exactly what they were searching 195 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.519 for, even if they're searching for multiple categories. Now I have a very 196 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.440 powerful Apple message I can send because I have an idea of what they're looking 197 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.320 for. So that's been wildly successful for our organization. And we we reiterated 198 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.360 again a lot of training, a lot of a lot of just reiteration of 199 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:52.039 the importance and we see consistent pipeline generation from intent data because of it. 200 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.279 Okay, so tell me where if I if I get this wrong at all, 201 00:13:54.279 --> 00:14:00.960 But essentially intent data fed back into the CRM. CRM isbviously accessible by 202 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.960 b DR team and they're they're seeing that directly and the nets informing them and 203 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.480 also what you guys are are doing with targeting and marketing messaging. Yep, 204 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.200 you got it. So we feed it directly into the serrum. From a 205 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.080 super tactical standpoint, we feed the data directly into the CRM. The CRM 206 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.679 then segments the data based on our BDR territory so they only see what they 207 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.360 are most concerned about. They'll put the leads into a cadence that we have 208 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.879 already set up for different different intent data topics as well as in our cadences 209 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:37.039 include a bound calling so it's all part of the entire the entire wheel. 210 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.440 And our marketing team also then feeds data into digital campaigns from intent because there's 211 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:46.679 a lot of connector platforms into LinkedIn and digital platforms, so we're providing air 212 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:50.799 cover at the same time through intent campaigns and the digital arena while they're making 213 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.720 these personalized outbound messages happen. And so there has just been such a consistent 214 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.279 quality of meetings and s q l s and ultimately pipeline being built because of 215 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.559 this whole engine that surrounds intent data. B two B growth will be right 216 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:16.759 back. There has just been such a consistent quality of meetings and s QL 217 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.600 s and ultimately pipeline being built because of this whole engine that surrounds intent data. 218 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.480 Interesting okay, So to that end, and just like to give us 219 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.360 an idea, like what what's the RM do? You guys use the Salesforce 220 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.360 so pretty pretty stream Salesforce, and then we use HubSpot to manage, you 221 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.279 know, some of our workflows for marketing. Also cool. Sometimes you hear 222 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.879 people deciding between Salesforce and HubSpot. I like that you're an example of using 223 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:48.279 both. That's all two different functions the way we use it, and salesforces 224 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.559 certainly our source of truth, but HubSpot sort of our marketing hub. And 225 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.960 good news is our Salesforce and our HubSpot instances talk real well to each other. 226 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:03.080 So there's so we're not we're not experiencing any of those challenges. Good 227 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.080 Okay. So one piece of this that I always want to like harp on 228 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.559 or dig into a little bit is that that personalized outbound piece, because I 229 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.360 think there's a lot of people that claim personalized outbound to some extent, but 230 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:21.840 like, how you actually ensure that it's not robotic feeling or like, I 231 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.200 don't know that there's something to a human touch. There's something to like, 232 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.879 oh, actually meeting someone sort of like where they are with that. So 233 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.320 how are you guys doing that? Like I guess essentially my question is around 234 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.559 quality control there, so quality control for outbound messages through the marketing teams such 235 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.679 as our cadences. So we do marketing through houp Spout, which is more 236 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.879 highlight you'll you'll see webinars, you know, more traditional marketing outreach ebooks, 237 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.320 things of that nature, and then you'll see much more personalized messaging through our 238 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.759 cadence tool. Right, So we have dozens of different cadences that marketing actually 239 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.720 writes with help from the BDR team because they're so they're good and they're so 240 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.919 close to the prospects, so we get a lot of input, They give 241 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.000 us a lot of feedback. We tweaked the message along the way, but 242 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.119 essentially for quality control purposes, marketing does own that function and we make sure 243 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.799 that you know, the messaging is on bring it on point and on what 244 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.599 we want to say, but also it's personalized enough where we understand what they 245 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.480 were interested in and what people like them are interested in. So if they 246 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.000 come in for a webinar about conversation intelligence for instance, which is you know, 247 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.720 a key offering of ours. They probably aren't as concerned about our compliance 248 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:34.200 solution, so you know, we're streamlining and making sure that we're kind of 249 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:38.039 meeting them with what they're interested in. But furthermore, because all of our 250 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.960 outbound outreach includes outbound phone calls and and LinkedIn message, you know, more 251 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:48.640 traditional mix, we've done a ton of training on personas and industries so that 252 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.279 not only do they know what the person is interested in, but they know 253 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.880 what industry and what persona is reaching out so that that conversation that a BDR 254 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.759 has can be much more customized with that human touch. As you mentioned, 255 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.119 it's always a work in progress, so you know, there's always tweaks and 256 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.799 changes that we find that we have to make as you know, as things 257 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.000 change, as it gets harder to connect with people working from home, so 258 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:15.519 tweaks along the way. But we are definitely mixing the sort of personalized outreach 259 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:21.279 at scale and more personalized touch through direct outbound outreach. Okay, so that 260 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.960 speaks to like the operationalizing demand side of things. I know, another area 261 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.759 that you have intentionally tried to improve is just like pushing out reporting. So 262 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.599 use the data to inform what you do as a department and what you discuss 263 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.200 in the boardroom as well. So up, what do you prioritize in those 264 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.519 meetings, like how do you essentially market internally to keep the team on track 265 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.279 and the board engaged excited about the vision? Sure, So I am the 266 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:53.640 data geek and that is an understatement. I a little embarrassing in some ways, 267 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:59.160 but you can find so much value in data. And when I first 268 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.680 came on board again, you know, growing department and such, we did 269 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.759 a lot of the blocking and tackling, putting things in place like ut M 270 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:10.200 codes on every single campaign form fills that we know uniquely belong to not only 271 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.519 this white paper, but this channel in this month, right, So we've 272 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.920 gotten really really good at understanding where all of these leads are coming from. 273 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.000 So that was my biggest that was and it sounds super simple, but collecting 274 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.799 that data over time and then making it valuable to the ORC takes a really 275 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.200 long time because you need the volume of data so you can see what's what's 276 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.480 working. The one thing to you that I would know is marketing. There's 277 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.200 always been this sort of marketing kicks over the leads to sales or the b 278 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.200 d art org and we say goodbye to the leads, and we say, 279 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.079 now it's your turn. Let's hope for the best. That is no longer 280 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.200 the case in any marketing department at this point. It is not valuable for 281 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.480 anybody to say, here are the leads. What's happening to the leads? 282 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.400 Which leads are converting all the way through the sales funnel? Which leads are 283 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.960 getting to the beginning of the funnel and dropping out of the funnel. Is 284 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.440 there a pattern involved? There? Is there a pattern based on channel? 285 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.640 Is there a pattern based on content? Is there a pattern based on the 286 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.079 industry or persona or targeting? So honing in on that so tightly to be 287 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.440 able to provide just not only visibility of value, but also proving that the 288 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.359 dollars you're spending as a as a departmental leader are going to the right areas. 289 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.720 Uh, those are all and it takes a long time to get there, 290 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.720 but those are critical. You I never want to go into a meeting 291 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.960 inside I'm not sure. Well, then what are you spending your money on? 292 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.200 If you're not sure? Which for a long time marketing was going into 293 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.200 meetings going I'm not sure. Which Also, this is the evolution of being 294 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.200 able to track some of this and like get data around it. So it 295 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.200 makes sense the evolution that has happened. But we are in a space now 296 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:47.599 where you can prove the functionality and you can have the conversations show the data. 297 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.440 So I like that, And I think the way you had put it 298 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.519 on our our call before this actual recording, you had said that we need 299 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.400 accountability at every part of the funnel, and then you use this imagery which 300 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.079 I really like, of like tossing the lead over the fence just being like 301 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:06.440 fingers crop hope they land like which I think obviously we don't. We don't 302 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:08.039 want to be in organizations like that. We don't want to do marketing that 303 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:12.519 way because that's how marketing gets a bad rep So I guess to me around 304 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.200 the accountability piece, the follow up question there would be like, how have 305 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.319 you guys done accountability? Well, like what can we learn from that, 306 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.519 like refusing to just toss the leads over the fence and hoping they land. 307 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.079 So looking at yourself in the mirror, right, I've not I've never in 308 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.640 my whole life been a person who's moves in the mirror have been like, 309 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.200 not my fault. I would always blame myself before blaming outside. So I 310 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.839 take I sort of take that approach in the marketing arena too. I've been 311 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.480 at different organizations where the you know, the leads are garbage, the leads 312 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.960 are garbage. You have this argument, right, Um, we've not, 313 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.799 by the way, this is this is an organ where we've never really had 314 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:56.319 that issue because we're so tightly aligned with the BDR team and we get really 315 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.640 good feedback from that. That's huge, but interesting to know. It's pretty 316 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.519 black and white when you look at the data and our internal team on the 317 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.319 marketing side looks at that data religiously, and we get it monthly. We 318 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.000 know by campaign. I mean we have it down to such a you could 319 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.519 spend hours in the data, and what it enables us to do is pull 320 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.440 back in certain areas and pivot quickly. For instance, if a particular channel 321 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:25.119 has been successful for us, but this particular content piece didn't perform so well, 322 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.599 we might want to reevaluate that channel, but maybe with a different piece 323 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.559 of content. We want to look at a lot of different things, so 324 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.400 we are holding ourselves, our team accountable. We have weekly meetings with the 325 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.279 team, but then we have specific monthly meetings to look at the calendar and 326 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.440 things we might be able to tweak based on some of the metrics that we're 327 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.160 seeing. Where do we want to dump more dollars? Like this channel has 328 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.200 been high performing for six months, we need to move away from this to 329 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.920 pull back from this channel a little bit, you know, move to this 330 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.559 channel. We try to give ourselves the ability to pivot from a financial standpoint 331 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.160 through our budget also in certain areas. Obviously you don't want to pivot every 332 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:07.960 every month because that becomes difficult for everyone. But I think we're very performance 333 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.160 driven our department, so we want to know what's working, and we want 334 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.480 to do more of what's working and not for us. By the way, 335 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:18.920 our biggest joy is when deals close. Right, It's not about marketing got 336 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.559 more leads this month, It's about the or closed more business this month. 337 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.720 And I think it's seeing that bigger picture and having everybody rally around that bigger 338 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:32.680 picture. It's really good. I think where I want us to start to 339 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.000 wrap up today is just to go okay, if I'm thinking through operationalizing I'm 340 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.680 thinking through streamlining functionality here. We've talked about data, some we've talked about 341 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:48.000 even just like ownership. You know, what would be your your challenge to 342 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:51.839 those listening to this B two B growth episode, is there like a little 343 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:55.759 mindset shift or something, because obviously our organizations are different, but this is 344 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.920 something that as marketing leaders were all thinking about. We're all wanting to continue 345 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.680 to improve and streamline. So anything that you would give us almost as like 346 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.880 a I don't want to say a homework assignment because then people won't want to 347 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.240 do it. But you get what I'm saying, that that shift that maybe 348 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:15.000 we could make understand what's successful and what's not truly understand, don't use a 349 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.839 gut field. And I know a lot of marketers are much better at this 350 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.640 than we used to be. Right really understand what's not working and then own 351 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.519 it and be okay with it because failure is not always a bad thing as 352 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.119 a learning experience. So I think so many marketers are afraid to put their 353 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.000 metrics out there for a broader vision because they're going to be scrutinized, questioned, 354 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.200 maybe maybe doubted a little bit about decision making. I think you have 355 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.319 to own that, understand it, and have a plan to get ahead of 356 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.799 it. And if you don't want to look it in the face, right, 357 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.119 then you don't want to acknowledge that, Wow, I've been spending money 358 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:51.839 in this channel and I probably shouldn't be much longer. Ignoring that is not 359 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.839 going to make that go away, but getting ahead of those challenges. So 360 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:59.400 looking those things in the face, getting ahead of it, and and truly 361 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.359 looking at yourself and saying, okay, we really need to make a change 362 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.799 here, and don't be afraid of it. Right. So many people I 363 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.400 think are so afraid of failure or perception that they're not willing to look at 364 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.680 something that might be uncomfortable. Last question here, it's just a follow up 365 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:17.200 on that for you personally in your career. So like, as you thought 366 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.519 through, okay, I need to just be upfront, get ahead of it, 367 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.039 are you coming in that way, just going like okay, here's where 368 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:26.839 we're in. Establishing that sort of like honesty transparency early on, and that's 369 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.519 what has given you success over time, Because I think people would come in 370 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.599 and they'd be like, I need to gauge sort of where where marketing fits 371 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.880 in the organization, and like, so there's this want to just prove yourself 372 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.440 early on instead of going, hey, here's what I walked into, and 373 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.119 like, this is where we're at, and this is what we're tracking going 374 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:45.920 forward. We're getting data on all of this, Like I just wonder what 375 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.200 that's looked like for you personally. So I definitely think I'm never one to 376 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.960 walk into a room and claim to know everything. I think there's a good 377 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.440 period of time necessary to learn and understand why things have been done a certain 378 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:03.000 way, because I've I've been through many, you know, different different places 379 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.480 where we've had new staff come on board, or someone who's had a marketing 380 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.960 background who's coming to a different role and who wants to give advice immediately upon 381 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:11.720 coming in, and it's all welcomed. By the way. I am not 382 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.319 one who thinks that outside advice is not valuable. It absolutely is. But 383 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.759 I think it's important for those who are new to come in and understand first 384 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.359 and truly under it, because there there could very well be a good reason 385 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.119 something has been done a certain way that you just don't know about. Sometimes 386 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:30.759 there's no good reason, and then you can find you know, fundamentally, 387 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.839 make that change, So I think it's important. But in the same time, 388 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.359 you still have to make progress moving forward. You can't just sit back 389 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:38.519 and wait in a new role three to six months and go, well, 390 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.640 let's see what happens. So there's a balance there, right, But I 391 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:48.359 do believe without guns blazing, understanding first where things are at, making incremental 392 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.240 changes, and then when you fully understand, you can start making some of 393 00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.960 the bigger changes. That's great. Well, this has been a really good 394 00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:59.319 conversation I think operationalize and something that we're all thinking of as marketing leaders, 395 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.480 and so there's been really helpful for those that want to stay connected to you, 396 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.599 Michelle, as well as find out more about Griffin AI. Can you 397 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:10.200 just tell us where we can do that and then maybe talk a little bit 398 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.599 about about what you guys are doing at Griffin AI. Sure, so me 399 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.359 personally. You can definitely find me on LinkedIn, you can email me certainly. 400 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:19.480 UM tilting at Griffin doat AI same website. By the way, so 401 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.000 I won't repeat that. We have a lot of text people on this call, 402 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:29.720 but UM Griffin is an incredible organization that cut its teeth in the compliance 403 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:33.799 business several years ago. We're still a huge player in that space, and 404 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.079 we have pretty amazing technology here through Tier one Telefony. I won't get into 405 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:42.319 the details on that, but it's enabled us to expand our offering to a 406 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.559 conversation intelligence and real time guided coaching that's powered by AI, and so basically 407 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:53.519 we kind of provide this really interesting view to sales leaders of what's going on 408 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:59.799 in the organization from a conversation standpoint, as well as providing real time coaching 409 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.000 on live call to you know, give the reps a little extra support when 410 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:08.240 certain questions come up or objections happen where maybe a newer rep, even a 411 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.720 tenured rep might benefit from that instant response. So those are a two areas 412 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.000 of growth that have been incredible for us, and we're plowing ahead very quickly 413 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.799 into the next couple of years with that technology. I love it. Well. 414 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.319 This has been a really fun conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. 415 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.799 Thanks for stopping by h B two B Growth. It's been a pleasure 416 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:32.799 to get to chat with you. Michelle. Yeah, Benji, thanks so 417 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.720 much for having me. Really appreciate it. For everyone listening. If you 418 00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:40.960 are new to the podcast and you haven't yet, followed the show. Do 419 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.079 that so that you never miss an episode. We're trying to create content here 420 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.920 that will fuel your growth and get you thinking in new innovative ways. So 421 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:52.799 we would love for you to follow the show and then you can connect with 422 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.559 me over on LinkedIn just search Benji Block Over there. I'm talking about marketing, 423 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:02.440 business life and posting consistently and also commenting, looking for community and want 424 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.359 to stay up to date with everything happening in B two B marketing. So 425 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.799 connect with me over there, keep doing work that matters. We'll be back 426 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:25.319 real soon with another episode. If you enjoy today's show, hit subscribe for 427 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.119 more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoy today's show, take a second 428 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.200 to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right 429 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.480 now. 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