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Sept. 19, 2022
Mental Selling: The Purpose-Driven Salesperson, with Lisa McLeod
In this cross-over episode, we’re sharing an episode from Mental Selling. This show is produced by Sweet Fish Media.
Sales is one of the only professions where we allow it to be defined by the people who do it badly. Top salespeople are ones who...
In this cross-over episode, we’re sharing an episode from Mental Selling. This show is produced by Sweet Fish Media.
Sales is one of the only professions where we allow it to be defined by the people who do it badly. Top salespeople are ones who earnestly want to improve life for their customers. When purpose driven sales becomes part of the culture and bigger than the transaction- and your ‘true north’ is improving life for customers- you’ll actually wind up making more money.
Successful salespeople want to know that what they’re doing counts for something- that their work matters. If what you are selling is being bought by customers, you’re improving their lives.
Hear our conversation with Lisa Earle McLeod, Founder at McLeod & More, Inc. and author of the bestseller Selling with Noble Purpose.
We discuss:
3 questions to ask that every salesperson should be able to answer
The real reasons salespeople leave their jobs
How the noble seller differs from the transactional seller
The difference between customer-centricity and purpose-driven sales
Overcoming the negative external perceptions of sales with confidence- and how your customers will feel it
The “it” that customers really want you to get to…
What mistaking profit for their purpose signals to your salespeople and employees
Why sales numbers are a lagging indicator and sales leaders need to coach to mindsets vs. outcomes
Why the people that have bought from you before are the key to understanding how your products make a difference
Sales managers as the “front-line belief builders”
Sponsors:
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*Sponsored Job credit offers available only for new U.S. accounts posting a job that expires one year after account creation. Upon expiration of credits, users are charged based on their Sponsored Job budget. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply.
Sales is one of the only professions where we allow it to be defined by the people who do it badly. Top salespeople are ones who earnestly want to improve life for their customers. When purpose driven sales becomes part of the culture and bigger than the transaction- and your ‘true north’ is improving life for customers- you’ll actually wind up making more money.
Successful salespeople want to know that what they’re doing counts for something- that their work matters. If what you are selling is being bought by customers, you’re improving their lives.
Hear our conversation with Lisa Earle McLeod, Founder at McLeod & More, Inc. and author of the bestseller Selling with Noble Purpose.
We discuss:
3 questions to ask that every salesperson should be able to answer
The real reasons salespeople leave their jobs
How the noble seller differs from the transactional seller
The difference between customer-centricity and purpose-driven sales
Overcoming the negative external perceptions of sales with confidence- and how your customers will feel it
The “it” that customers really want you to get to…
What mistaking profit for their purpose signals to your salespeople and employees
Why sales numbers are a lagging indicator and sales leaders need to coach to mindsets vs. outcomes
Why the people that have bought from you before are the key to understanding how your products make a difference
Sales managers as the “front-line belief builders”
Sponsors:
If you’re hiring, you need Indeed.
Sign up and get a $75 credit to sponsor your first job for better visibility, more applications and quicker hiring times. Stay in control with payment billing options, no long term contracts, pay for only what you need and pause spending at any time.*
Claim Your Credit
*Sponsored Job credit offers available only for new U.S. accounts posting a job that expires one year after account creation. Upon expiration of credits, users are charged based on their Sponsored Job budget. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply.
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two, B growth.
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Welcome in today I am here with
will Milano. He is the vice
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president of marketing over at integrity solutions
and he's the host of mental selling,
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the sales performance podcast. WILL WELCOME
TO B to be growth. Thanks,
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Benji. Thanks very much. Great
to join you. Yeah, so we're
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gonna do a crossover episode here in
a few minutes and we're gonna highlight one
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of the best episodes from from your
show, mental selling, but I wanted
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to just get inside your mind as
the host and talk a little bit about
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your show before we feature an episode. So tell us a little bit,
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maybe the elevator pitch of sorts behind
mental selling the sales performance podcast. Will.
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So mental selling is really getting to
the heart of what are those mental
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and emotional and motivational things that drive
sales success. So we talked to leaders
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from across a lot of different industries
and get their input on those things and
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also from the customer perspective, what
does the customer want and expect today from
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the modern seller? And then we
also get into the aspect of the sales
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leader and what his or her mindset
needs to be as they especially as a
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newly promoted sales leader, shifts from
an individual contributor to somebody that's leading and
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trying to motivate their own sales team. And what? What's the tremendous mindset
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shift that has to happen there for
them to succeed as a sales leader?
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Yeah, I'm all about mindset shifts. We talked about that from a marketing
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perspective often here on B two B
growth actually, because I think podcasting is
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a great platform for having something shift
internally and the way you think about your
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job versus maybe you know you're you
could be on a run, you could
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be doing the dishes when you're listening
to this podcast. So it's harder to
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like take all these super detailed notes, but you could have a mental shift
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or you're like, oh, yeah, I should think about it this way.
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So I love I love offering those
up through the podcast medium and the
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platform. You know, there's there's
so much that goes into it from the
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standpoint of how a salesperson views their
role and what are they actually doing for
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and with customers versus two customers,
uh, their view of just what selling
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is itself. A lot of people
end up in a sales career and sales
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roles sort of accidentally, for lack
of a better term. People don't major
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in sales in college, that sort
of thing, Um, and a lot
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of people have baggage around the idea
of just being a salesperson, and so
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those things along with just there.
Are Their values aligned with the organization that
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they work for and, Um,
do they again believe in in their core
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and the products and services that they're
representing? If they don't have a line
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men around those things, all of
this sort of how to us and product
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information and things like that will ultimately
be for not. Yeah, I wonder,
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as you are working in creating this
show, are you just thinking of
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salespeople broadly? Is there a specific
type of person that this show is meant
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to serve and in the type of
person you hope tunes in? Well,
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ideally we're talking speaking to the salesperson
that already is values driven and believes that
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their role is to make their customers
lives better and to help them solve for
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needs that that maybe or even needs
that the customer doesn't even realize that that
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they have. So we're speaking to
both those individual sales people again, as
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well as the sales leaders, you
know. So we're we're focused on those
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people that are relationship minded, trying
to get more relationship minded. Their their
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values driven, Um, and they're
really committed to making their stomers lives better
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and and creating amazing customer experiences for
those that they serve. Fantastic. Well,
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let's talk about the episode we're about
to highlight the purpose driven salesperson.
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Tell me a little bit about why
you would choose to highlight this episode and
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the value were about to to get
out of it. Yeah, so this
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this conversation Um, the noble purpose
driven salesperson. It's with someone I've known
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for for several years now. Her
name is Lisa Earl McLeod Um. She
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authored a book called selling with noble
purpose and I heard her speak at a
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conference years ago and when I started
hosting this podcast, she was one of
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the very first people I thought about
because I believe that her, her point
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of view around selling is just the
most closely aligned to what we're talking about
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about what makes a salesperson successful.
And so she talks a lot in this
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episode about, you know, those
critical emotional and psychological drivers and and how
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you know she's done research through this
book that she wrote that you this is
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a very data driven thing. Um, that sales people that are committed to
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making their customers lives better and that's
the attitude that they bring to their job
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every day, that they're simply more
successful, way more successful, Um,
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than those that don't have that point
of view and are just there to sort
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of win, and maybe even win
at the expense of the customer. MM.
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Well, I'm excited to listen to
this episode. Get our listeners engaged
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here and if people want to stay
connected with mental selling with you, what
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are the best ways for for people
to do that? Yeah, so we
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are. Mental selling is on on
all the major podcast players. On our
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website, which is integrity solutions dot
com, you'll see all of our episodes
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as well under the resources section of
the site. You'll find us on linkedin.
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We're very active on Linkedin and we'll
post a lot about our new episodes
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as they come out every other week. On twitter, you'll find us at
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Um sell underscore integrity and you'll also
find this on on facebook and you'll find
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uh episode clips on our Youtube Channel. I love it. Well, thanks
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for jumping on here, will and
telling us a little bit about the show
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and for all the marketers listening to
this right now, go ahead and just
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pause the episode real quick. There's
probably a share button somewhere on your screen
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right now. Share it with someone
on your sales team who could benefit from
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a new podcast, and I think
mental selling is something that we as marketers
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can also tune in and learn something
right that's how alignment happens, is when
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you know about other roles in the
organization, but also there's someone on your
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team who could benefit from this podcast, and so I just want to give
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this as a suggestion before we jump
in. All right, well, thanks
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so much for being here today,
man. Thank you. Thanks, Benji.
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Take care. You're listening to mental
selling, the sales performance podcast,
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a show from integrity solutions. This
is a podcast for passionate leaders in sales
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and kind summer service who are driven
by purpose, not just a paycheck,
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people who want to create broader and
deeper connections with customers and their teams by
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building trust and mastering the critical mental
and emotional sides of sales. You're about
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to hear a conversation from sales leaders
and industry experts about what it takes to
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translate sales knowledge into sales performance.
How to change the sales conversation by putting
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the focus on building relationships and adding
value, removing the blockers that keep salespeople
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from reaching their potential, creating an
inspiring learning environment and culturing culture and ultimately
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increasing sales achievement and improving customer loyalty. Ready to rise up to the top
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of your game? Let's get right
into the show. Welcome everyone to mental
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selling. Thanks for joining us today. From wherever you are and whenever you
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might be listening to this, I'm
very excited about today's episode. Today's guest
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is Lisa mcloud. Lisa is a
global expert on her is driven business and
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the best selling author of five books, including selling with noble purpose, how
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to drive revenue and do work that
makes you proud. She has worked with
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clients like Linkedin Support Works, Roche
and salesforce, and is a regular contributor
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to both the Harvard Business Review and
in Fortune and Forbes. So, Lisa,
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welcome to mental selling. Thanks for
being with us today. It is
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such a pleasure to be with you
today and I love the title mental selling.
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Oh my gosh, I can't wait
to dive in thank you. So
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I first heard you speak at a
sales and marketing conference about three and a
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half years ago now, and ever
since we rebooted this podcast you've been a
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guest that I really have been eager
to have on the show, because your
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points of view about selling perhaps map
closest to what this podcast is all about
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more than just about anyone I can
think of. So let's get right into
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it by talking about purpose and in
the context of selling, and you know,
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in simple terms, how do you
define it and why does it matter?
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So first I'm going to tell you
what it's not. Purpose has become
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part of the business vernacular. Ten
years ago, if you ask someone what's
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the purpose of a sales team,
they would have said, well, duck
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hit the target, bringing the revenue. But what we now know is that
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when you have what we call a
noble purpose, bigger than money, when
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you're true north is improving life for
customers, you wind up making more money.
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And so one of the things that's
happened. I'm delighted that you know
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I wrote the original version of selling
with noble purpose. You and I were
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talking about this in two thousand twelve
and since then purpose has become part of
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the business vernacular. But what's happened
is words only mean what we think they
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mean, and a lot of times
people think the purpose of a company one
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is to return to shareholders. You
know that all freedman model. Oh,
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that's not the purpose of the company. The purpose of a company is to
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improve life for customers. And people
get a look confused about purpose and they
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think, well, is it about
a give back? Is it about all
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these E S G metrics? And
the answer is no. Good companies give
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to their communities, good companies don't
pollute the world. But the true purpose
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of a company is to improve life
for customers, plain and simple. Your
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Noble salespers purpose is a clear and
succinct statement about how you're making life better
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for customers. End of story.
So if a salesperson, I don't want
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to say if they don't buy into
purpose, but if they can't put his
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or her finger on what their's is, specifically, what's the risk or potential
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cost there? I mean does every
does every salesperson need to feel, you
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know, if you're selling plumbing fixtures
or life fixtures? Does every salesperson need
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to feel like they're making a you
know, a deep difference in customers lives.
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Well, I think it comes down
to do we define deep difference?
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So you mentioned plumbing fixtures and light
fixtures and I will tell you that those
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you try and live your life without
plumbing and lighting and you see how well
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it goes. A lot of times
people think you know because I use the
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language noble purpose. They think,
oh well, that's for the people curing
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cancer or saving lives or teachers or
whatever. Now, if you if what
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you are selling is being bought by
customers, you're improving their lives. So
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what we suggest is you ask three
questions. They're in selling with noble purpose,
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and I'll give them to you now. We call the three discovery questions.
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As a seller, you want to
be able to answer how do you
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make a difference to customers? How
do you do it differently than your competition?
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And on your best day, what
do you love about your job?
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And if you can get clear on
those, you will become a more compelling
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salesperson than that transactional salesperson who's just
there to close the deal, and that
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can also you know, we we
talk a lot about on this podcast about
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how there are a lot of ups
and downs in selling right. It's not
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a linear every day is the same. You have some real highs and you
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have some real lows and I think
what you're talking about is a way to
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sustain people through some of those inevitable
ebbs and flows. So related question,
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I think. But so we all
read today about their huge amounts of turnover
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in the labor market and resignations and
people changing jobs, etcetera. Why do
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you think salespeople today leave their jobs? So there's two answers. They'll tell
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you they're leaving their job for more
money. What prompted them to be open
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to looking was they didn't feel an
emotional connection to their work. Now,
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if you're out there and you're working
for a toxic boss in a terrible company
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and you're being underpaid, like let's
get you need to leave. You got
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options. You do not need to
do this. But what we find people
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are complex and we have lots of
motivations and there's nothing wrong with being money
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motivated. When I talk about noble
purpose, people think, Oh, you
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don't care about money. I care
deeply about money. I have a former
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review sales and so the money matters, the money without the meaning. If
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you're just out there making money and
you don't feel like your work makes a
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difference, your life is going to
become very transactional, and so what we
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find is they both matter. What
sales people want is they want to be
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able to do both. They want
to be able to make money and to
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know that my work counts for something. You know, I'm going to go
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back to plumbing fixtures. We had
a concrete company. It's one of our
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most successful clients. Again, you
might not think concrete is very sexy,
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you might not think it matters,
but try living your life without concrete.
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You can't. It holds up half
the world legitimately, and so what you
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want is you just want to have
a sightline to how your work matters,
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because you see human beings. Once
we get beyond food and shelter, we
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have two fundamental needs, belonging and
significance. Belonging is I'm part of something
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bigger than myself, and significance is
my individual contribution matters, and we all
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need that in our jobs. Yeah, absolutely, that's universal. I've read
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part of your book which is one
of the more interesting parts to me because
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it's a lot of what we talk
about integrity solutions, but you talk about.
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You discuss the nobility of the sales
profession and how it's so often,
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we all know it's so often misperceived. As you know, people's need jerk
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reaction to selling is that they're being
tricked or coerced into something. How does
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purpose affect a salesperson's motivation to succeed? How does their view of what selling
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is as a profession motivate them?
You talk about, you know, the
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economics of self interest or or not
sustainable. Son, can you talk about
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that, just sort of that view
of of the sales profession and why that
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matters? Well, I'M gonna start
with a story because I remember a million
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years ago I was just graduating from
college and I was going to a party
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at my then boyfriend, later became
my husband, but at his boss's house.
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So He's a couple of years older
than me, so he was already
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a grown up, you know,
had a grown up job and Um,
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I go to this party at his
boss's house. So I'm like really nervous.
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You know, I'm the youngest one
there going to this party and I'm
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a college senior. What is everybody
asked, a college senior. So what
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are you gonna do have you found
a job? The week before I go
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to this party, I get my
dream job. I'm going to be a
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sales rep for procter and gamble and
I'm so excited I can't stand it.
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I'm super excited about the job and
I'm also super excited that I'm gonna be
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able to say at this party that
I had this job. So the boss's
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wife comes up to me. Oh, hello, dear. She's like what
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I call a fancy lady. You
know where? It's really Nice House.
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She's like Soa dear, you know, I hear you're graduating from college.
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What are you going to be doing? And I say well, I'm going
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to be a sales rep for proger
and gamble. I'm so excited and she
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goes, Oh sales, oh my, I don't know if I could ever
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do that. And I am so
naive and excited about my job that I
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do not understand when she is saying
to me. When she says I don't
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think I could never do that,
I think she's saying it like you'd say
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to like a fighter pilot or a
brain surgeon. Wow, I don't know
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if I could ever do that.
I'm like yeah, it's pretty Badass and
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then, yeah, that's what I'm
doing. What I did not understand in
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that meant was what she meant was
it's Leazy, is icky and I could
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never lower myself to do that,
Miss Fancy Lady. But what I've come
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to realize is sales is one of
the only professions that we allow it to
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be defined by the people who do
it badly. It's a great point.
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We all know there's terrible ministers,
there's terrible teachers, they're terrible doctors.
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Every profession has a share of terrible
people, and what the data tells us
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is those pushy, aggressive people who
try to talk people into things they don't
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want to buy. They don't need
manipulative people. They're not the high performers
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by any stretch of the imagination.
So there's two things I want people to
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take away from this. Number One, the data is fundamentally clear. The
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top sales people are the people who
factually and earnestly want to improve life for
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their customers. That's who we need
to allow to define our profession. And
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the other thing that I want people
to take in is you don't get to
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be in commerce or in a capitalistic
society and have a disdain for the very
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thing that makes the whole engine run. So like this disdain that people have
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for sales is insane, because nobody
wants to quit buying things that are not
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talking about excessive consumerism, but no
one wants to run their business without computers
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or without software. And so the
idea that somehow the people selling all the
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things that make our lives and businesses
better are itchy, it's just crazy.
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So it says. Those are the
two things I really want people to take
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away. The people who are the
best in our profession are actually the people
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who truly care about their customers and
this whole economy. We got to go
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in kines of people buying and selling
things that people act really need. So,
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like, let go of that disdain
for this profession. Do you think
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a lot of sales people are are
held back by that, though, by
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that that view maybe, either,
whether it's consciously or subconsciously, not the
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best ones, because the best ones
have come, as you and I both
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have, around to this deep understanding. What I would like to put out
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to all the younger salespeople, the
less tinured salespeople, the people struggling with
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it and to all the parents whose
child just tells them they're going into sales
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is sales is a noble profession.
It makes the economy hum and even if
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you're not selling, you know,
even if you get out of the world
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of of you know capitalism, somebody
has to go sell all that x ray
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equipment. Somebody has to sell those
teachers there, you know, their materials
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and their supplies and selling, and
it's hard. Is Not about talking people
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into something they don't want. That's
terrible. Selling at its heart is about
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finding the people who can benefit from
what you have and making it easy for
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them. If you if you are
selling something and people are paying money for
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it, you have a noble purpose
because they wouldn't be buying it if it
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wasn't helping them. What you need
to do is lean into how again,
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those three questions. How do I
make a difference? That is what I
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sell. Make a difference. How
do we do it differently? And on
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my best day, what do I
love about my job, and usually what
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you love, is those magic moments
when the customer says this is exactly what
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I needed. Now, related to
that and another thing that can happen,
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though, with some salespeople it's one
thing to sort of have a positive view
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of the of selling itself as the
profession, but what about if their view
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of what they're selling, the product
and services can their viewpoint about those and
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sort of their their confidence and real
belief in those, cannot have the same
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effect, positively or negatively? It
absolutely does, and so I'll tell you
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two things on this. If you're
not feeling excited about what you're selling,
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the first thing you need to do
before you give it up. The first
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thing you need to do is go
back and find some people that bought from
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you and, if you're new,
dig into your experience salespeople and find out
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how did this make a difference?
And so, like our concrete company,
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went back and found that their delivery
systems, the strength of their concrete,
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the working with their team made the
whole project thing. So go back and
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find out how does this make a
difference? Don't minimize it. If you're
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selling accounting systems, if you're selling
software, again, you don't have to
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be changing the all, just helping
people in some way. So go back
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and find out how it made a
difference. If you're selling something that's commoditized,
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really dig into how did my company's
delivery of this make a difference,
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because what you're looking for is that
feeling of significance, that this actually mattered.
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If you can't find it and what
you're selling. This is the second
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point, and what you're selling is
truly crap, you need to leave because
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because you're not gonna be that good
at it. But again that those instances
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are so rare. I think what
happens is we just get so used to
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what we're selling that we don't lean
into it and we tend to ask questions
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of our customers like where you satisfied? Yes, that's not the question that
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you want to ask. You want
to ask what impact did it have on
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you? Because there's been this talk, and you know this, in the
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last years about customers central city.
Selling with noble purpose takes customer centricity one
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step further. Customer centricity is often
about pleasing customers. Selling with noble purpose
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is about improving customers, and so
anybody out there who's got kids know there's
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if you're a parent, there's a
big difference between pleasing your children and improving
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your children. That's a good analogy. Yes, that's very true. The
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same thing as a teacher and so
what you're trying to do is you are
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really trying to have an impact on
your customer and that's what you're always looking
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for. So, instead of going
back and saying are you happy? That's
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fine and that's a baseline question.
But if I were to say, were
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you happy with our concrete? Were
you happy with our software? Yeah,
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what's good at work? Yeah,
saying you're satisfied is sort of like meeting
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the least common denominator. That's right. You're not going to get a fire
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in your belly because customers are telling
you or satisfying yeah. And you also
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touched on something else, which is
especially for people that are selling, and,
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let's be honest, most companies do
things that are at least relatively commoditized,
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is, go beyond the product and
talk about why they bought from you,
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because they're also buying the experience.
The experience, entire customer experience,
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can be what the difference is and
what your impact is. The service,
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the confidence. We had a big
piece of business that we just want and
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we went back and we wanted against
quite a formidable, much larger company than
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us, and we went back and
said, why did you choose us,
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and they said, we could tell
that you cared about us more. Yeah,
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that that shouldn't be underestimated. Okay, well, good, because we
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did. It's a it's a huge
factor. That just gets back to your
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brand and your brand promise. Yeah, and that's that's all about how you
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make customers feel. So now that's
a really good point. Well, and
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you bring up I want to pause
on one thing. You bring up brand
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promise. When you think about people
listening to this. If your company is
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doing this work at the top and
your rand promise and the way they're communicating
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to you, that's great. You
have a competitive advantage. But if they're
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not, you can do this.
We do this. All this rest one
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D in control of the individual sales
person, of the individual sales manager around.
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We are not just going to focus
on closing, we're going to focus
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on improving life for customers, and
our closed rate is a measure of how
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well we are doing that. That's
a really good point. You want this
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to be happening systemically and organizationally,
but if it's not, it's still is.
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Like you just said, it's up
to the individual and they can deliver
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on that themselves. Right. Well, back to the title. Of this
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podcast. Mental selling is your if
your true north is hit my number,
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hit my number, hit my number, you are going to be a frantic,
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untethered, up and down person.
But if your true north is in
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your mind, how am I going
to improve life for customers? Number One,
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the data tells us you will be
more compelling, you will be more
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engaging, your win weight will go
up and you will ultimately close more deals.
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But the other thing is you'll be
more grounded because, no matter what
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the circumstances, I can always improve
life for customers. Yes, that's that's
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a really good point. And so
building on that, you know, we're
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talking about sales people developing their own
their true north and their view of selling
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as a profession and their belief,
you know, core belief in the products
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that they're selling. Do you think
can customers feel it either way if somebody
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has that or no, meaning that? Can a sales rep sort of fake
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it or hide it or bury it? You know, so how do how
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do customers tell whether somebody has that
or not? Doesn't matter. So it's
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happening on a conscious level and an
unconscious level, depending on the customers.
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And so I would like, in
this too, dating it's been a million
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years since I dated, but I've
watched shows about dating. You can tell
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if someone is genuinely interested in you
and you don't go through a little mental
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checklist where you go, oh,
they leaned in, oh they made eye
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contact. Oh, that question was
a little more insightful. You're not doing
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that. When you said can customers
feel it? They absolutely can feel it.
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And one of the things that's happened
in this post pandemic world, or
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whether we're still in or not,
but whatever, is if you've ever been
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through a traumatic experience, death of
a parent, health scare, a divorce,
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a bankruptcy, something that really stops
you in your tracks, you have
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a deep conversation with yourself. Who
Am I? Why am I here?
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How am I spending my precious time
on this earth? So what's happened over
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the last two years is everyone's done
that, everyone's done that at the same
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time, and what that does.
This is super important for settlers, because
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what that does is it gives you
a heightened awareness of how you are spending
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your time, and you only want
to spend time with people that you enjoy,
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that care about you, that you
care about and so what you have
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to understand is that customers are now
reading your intent and it's super important and
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we can't put the toothpaste back in
the tube. So what a friend of
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mine, WHO's the vice president hr
for a large bank, told me,
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because she has lots of salespeople call
on her to sell, are all kinds
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of things. And she said what
was annoying in person, which is the
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salesperson that goes on and on about
themselves, she said, is intolerable on
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a zoom. So nobody has is
terrible. No customer has time for you
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to go down your laundry list of
features and all this. They're gonna they
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want you to get to it,
but the it that they want you to
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get to is them. Yeah,
they don't want to see your slide with
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all your customer logos or talk about
how many offices you have in the world,
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that sort of thing. You Wow, wow, wow, wow,
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wow. They don't care. Yeah, and it's really good news for sellers
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who want to lean into an important
word here is customer impact. Not just
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lean into customers generically, but lean
into customer impact, and that's what selling
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with noble purpose is all about,
is improving life for customers in both quantifiable
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ways, but also qualitative ways.
The act of doing business with you should
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be fun. Yeah, yeah,
it should be. So. When I
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first read your book, which was
over three years ago because I got a
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copy of it at the conference that
you spoke at, and then I reread
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a lot of it ahead of our
discussion today, one of the things you
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00:29:55.160 --> 00:30:00.599
talk about is you divide sales people
into two camps. There's transactional sellers and
384
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.880
then noble purpose sellers. Can you
talk a bit about each and with the
385
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.839
differences and and what you think customers
want more most from a salesperson in that
386
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:14.960
context? So, as I described
this, I invite folks to think about
387
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:19.400
when they've been at their best and
what we saw. We started a number
388
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:25.160
of sales teams and that's the what
the research bore out was that there were
389
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:29.720
definitely there were actually three camps of
sellers. There were these noble purpose sellers,
390
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.839
there were good performing transactional sellers and
then there were terrible people that did
391
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.599
not know what they were doing.
So we don't need to talk about those.
392
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.480
But the transactional sellers. Not a
bad person, just trying to make
393
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.160
a living and do a good job. But I'll give you a couple of
394
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.079
compare and contrast. So a noble
purpose seller starts to call thinking how can
395
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:53.319
I make a difference to this customer? A transactional seller starts to call thinking
396
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.640
how can I close this deal?
Questioning shows up in a bunch of different
397
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:03.680
ways discovery. A noble purpose seller
thinks I want to understand what this customer
398
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:10.160
is trying to accomplish within the scope
of their business. A transactional seller thinks
399
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.640
I need to understand the purchase requirements. When you go into presenting, a
400
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:22.599
noble purpose seller thinks I need to
connect the dots and show the customer how
401
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.799
what I have can help them achieve
their goals. A transactional seller thinks I
402
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:32.640
need to show the customer how my
product works. Transactional sellers make sales,
403
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.319
but they leave it to the customer
to connect all those dots. And so
404
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:44.039
what we found was those noble purpose
sellers one they produced much more revenue,
405
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.119
their win rate was higher. But
the other thing is they close bigger deals
406
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:52.720
and they close stickier deals. And
it's because, instead of asking about purchase
407
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:59.119
requirements, they ask about customer strategic
goals. Instead of talking about product features,
408
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:05.359
they talk about customers success and how
the customers life and business will be
409
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:12.039
better. And so there was a
distinct difference in orientation, but where it
410
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.160
came from back to mental it came
from a mindset of why am I here,
411
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:21.000
and those transactional sellers again good people
trying to do a job make a
412
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:24.960
living. I am here to close
business and those noble purpose sellers I am
413
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:30.720
here to improve life for customers,
and everything flowed out from that. That's
414
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:34.599
really good. That's a that's such
an important sort of again, way to
415
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:39.160
keep people centered, centered. That's
a really good phrasing in every customer conversation
416
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.319
that they're having. I don't know
if this is more like a story I
417
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.200
wanted to share to get your reaction
to more than a question, but something
418
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.799
that resonated for me in the book. I went through it and there was
419
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.920
a chapter titled Why profit is not
a purpose and it immediately took me back
420
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.519
to earlier in my career, quite
a while ago. I had a job
421
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.279
years ago, where I worked for
the CEO, who was a great guy.
422
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.359
He had been with the company for
many years. He had been the
423
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:07.880
CEO for out of a nine ten
years, highly respected, very well liked
424
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:13.160
he was a catalyst for the company's
positive culture and on very good terms.
425
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:15.240
He just had found something else he
wanted to do and he was leaving the
426
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:20.359
company. And when he left,
and the company was owned by a parent
427
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.759
company, when he left, on
again on good terms, the interim CEO
428
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:29.799
came in to an all company meeting
and stood up in front of the room
429
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:35.400
and very forcefully opened the meeting by
saying, let me be really I still
430
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:38.000
remember standing there watching this. Let
me be really clear. Your mission,
431
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:43.000
looking around to everybody in the room, your mission is to deliver profit to
432
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:50.279
parent company X. and that juxtaposition
of what people's experience had been in the
433
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:54.480
company from a leadership standpoint, you
could see in the moment, you could
434
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.400
see the energy and feel it drain
from the room and I remember looking around
435
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:04.079
and literally looking at people's faces and
thinking she's going to leave, he's going
436
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.440
to leave, she's out of here. And in the months ahead, and
437
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.960
many of them were, they left. And so what what's your reaction to
438
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.920
that? When when companies sort of
drive down that like we're here to make
439
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.199
profit as your as your purpose,
trying to make that their purpose. So
440
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.039
here's what I would say. Here's
what that CEO said, and it might
441
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.599
have been a very well intended person
that has a lot of pressure from their
442
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.320
board, from whoever. So I'm
not making a moral judgment here. But
443
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:35.400
when a leader says your purpose is
to make a profit, your purpose is
444
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:42.039
to hit the target, what the
person heres is you are a cog in
445
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:50.960
a money machine. You are a
meaningless cog in a money machine that exists
446
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:58.320
for other people, not for you. And so when leaders say that they
447
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:05.440
are creating a ty transactional relationship with
their employees, a transactional relationship with your
448
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:09.960
employees creates a transactional relationship with your
customers. That's a great way to put
449
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:15.599
it and you've got to really understand
that if you want customer loyalty, if
450
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:22.960
you want to be differentiated in the
marketplace, if you want your customers to
451
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.840
stick with you and not put it
up for bid every year, that starts
452
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:34.360
with the conversation that you're having with
your employees. And so but leaders will
453
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:38.840
say, but my board, how
I ended up working with boards and C
454
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:43.320
E O s was because I started
working with salespeople and they all said,
455
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.599
but my manager, my manager,
she's here, she says it's all about
456
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.599
the money. So I started working
with sales managers. They go but the
457
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:53.119
chief revenue officers chief Revezer. So
I started laddering this back up. And
458
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:59.000
so what I will tell you is, as a leader, you are required
459
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:06.119
to hit your number. Your numbers
are a lagging indicator. Your numbers are
460
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:13.000
the result of the mindset and behavior
of your employees. So if you are
461
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.320
leading with you gotta hit the number. You've got to hit the number.
462
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:20.679
You are just like a teacher that
is sitting in the classroom saying you've got
463
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:22.800
to improve the test course. You've
got to improve the test course. You've
464
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.920
got to improve the test course,
or a coach that's telling a runner you've
465
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:29.079
got to improve your time. You've
got to improve your time. You you
466
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:36.639
can't coach to an outcome. You
have to coach and create culture around a
467
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:42.400
behavior and a mindset. And so, if I am a leader, what
468
00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:46.320
I want to be saying is here's
how we improve life for customers, here's
469
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:50.679
the story of our company, because
it's going to be a lot more emotionally
470
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:54.320
engaging. Here's some examples of customers. And, oh by the way,
471
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:59.119
the numbers are a measure of that. I think that's a really good point.
472
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.119
I've always believe that revenue is a
lagging indicator for so much that's going
473
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:06.719
on. Of course it is in
sales and your the teaching analogy is good
474
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:08.840
because my wife is a teacher and
it's the same sort of thing that that
475
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:14.639
sort of state tests that students have
to go through. Those are a lacking
476
00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:17.639
indicator of what's been going on for
the previous six nine months. Right,
477
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.920
right. And so imagine the difference, because we've all been in school,
478
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:27.760
even if we don't have kids.
Imagine the difference between a teacher who is
479
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.519
told by his or her administration your
goal is sat the test scores, your
480
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.920
goal to say at the test course, versus a teacher, or let's call
481
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.440
it a history teacher, who's been
told you are creating future citizens. We
482
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:46.159
want well informed citizens who understand the
history of our country, who can think
483
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.679
for themselves. That's your goal.
The test scores will show us if we
484
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:54.760
got there, but your true north
is a well informed citizen. Rate whose
485
00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:00.159
class would you rather be in?
Oh, absolutely, yeah, and that
486
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.000
and that's what leaders have to understand. In selling the noble purpose, we
487
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.679
use an example of monster dot com
and this is all public record, the
488
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:12.840
exact same thing happened there that happened
to you. They had leaders who said
489
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.800
we're going to help people find better
jobs. Woo, we have a purpose,
490
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:20.920
and they shifted to a leadership that
said we're going to be about the
491
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.239
numbers. And what happened was,
for the first six months they had better
492
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.519
numbers. Well, what happened in
a couple of years that followed? It
493
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.840
basically became irrelevant. Irrelevant, they
were out innovated by Linkedin. And so
494
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:36.440
if you're there and you're that leader
saying your purpose is to hit the number,
495
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.880
you might as well put a sign
on the door that says innovation dies
496
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:44.320
here. Yeah, because it also
it emphasizes that short term, the short
497
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.360
term, short term thinking. This
week, this month and nobody. You
498
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:51.079
compare two teams. One team is
saying how can we make a difference to
499
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.039
customers? The other team is saying
how can we hit our quarterly targets?
500
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:57.760
That first team is going to be
the more innovative team, pivoting a bit.
501
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.119
One of the and you touched on
this a little bit before, when
502
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.880
you're talking about the customer experience when
they're on zoom calls. What do you
503
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:07.519
in your opinion? What's the impact
been of for most sales people being fully
504
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.119
remote the past couple of years?
And it could because in some cases that
505
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.280
wasn't much of a change for some
people, but in a lot of industries,
506
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:20.639
a lot of roles, it was
a drastic shift. That happened overnight.
507
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:22.960
What's the impact been of that?
So a couple of things. First
508
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:27.639
thing is a lot of extroverted sales
people realized they didn't actually have that many
509
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:34.000
friends. Their lives have been filled
up with going out with customers, entertating
510
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:37.880
customers, being the customers offices.
So there was a little bit of a
511
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:44.119
reckoning on that. I've just seen
some new data about salesperson loneliness and I'm
512
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.840
going to do a piece on this
and it basically says women salespeople became lonely,
513
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.440
they became more awkward and they started
overspending on customers just to get a
514
00:39:52.519 --> 00:40:00.199
social connection. But what's happened now? A lot of people who were in
515
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.880
person salespeople have gone remote, and
one of the things that you've got to
516
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.000
understand is for a lot of industries
it's going to stay that way and it's
517
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:15.440
not the seller's choice. It's the
customer's choice. Yeah, the example we
518
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.280
talked a lot about theirs and like
medical device and pharmaceuticals, right. They
519
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.679
those sales people were used to that
drop in culture of just showing up at
520
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.119
the doctor's offices. And not only
did that end on a dime two years
521
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:30.239
ago, but it's not coming back. No, I was in the doctor's
522
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.400
office the other day and I looked
around. I was like where are all
523
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.760
this getting good looking people? All
right, the farmer reps are near anymore.
524
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.800
Oh, this is just all the
patients, all the normal people.
525
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:46.199
But one of the things that you
have to understand as a seller, if
526
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:51.480
you were in this virtual environment,
is, well, a couple of things.
527
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:55.840
Number one, of your customer's journey
has been online. So they and
528
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.000
it's without you, and that's not
a bad thing. They have looked at
529
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:04.280
your product, they've looked at you. In most cases they've looked at everything
530
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:09.559
in advance, and so when they've
decided to give you their time, Litmus
531
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:13.920
test this. But in most cases
they're already up to feed on your company
532
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:19.239
and when they're giving you their time
it's really precious. And the good news
533
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.039
is that they're giving you their time. They're probably really serious. So if
534
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:28.199
you're getting on a zoom call with
somebody, this is a good prospect.
535
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.360
You need to understand that. But
the other thing that you have to understand.
536
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:37.119
Just as they have done their homework, you better do yours. And
537
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.800
by your homework what I mean.
There is no excuse. I don't care
538
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.360
what you sell, especially if you're
B two B. You need to know
539
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:51.119
what this company's goals are, what
are they trying to accomplish over the next
540
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:54.599
year? Who is their senior leadership
team? Who is this person you're calling
541
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:58.840
on? What is their role?
You should know all that before you jump
542
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.159
on the call. YEA, what
if they've been saying in the news?
543
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.840
That sort of thing right? There's
no excuses. You need to know all
544
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.679
that. And so if you are
booking back to back to back calls with
545
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:12.039
no time in between, you're doing
yourself and your customers a disservice. If
546
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:16.159
you do nothing else, cut your
calls from thirty minutes to twenty five or
547
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:22.199
an hour to forty five and give
yourself that time. And and then the
548
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:30.440
other thing that you need to understand
about this zoom situation is your intent became
549
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.880
more apparent. And here's why.
You walk into somebody's office, we're gonna
550
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.280
shake hands and you want some coffee. I'm gonna see some pictures of their
551
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:42.960
kids or whatever. All those social
niceties that we just sort of do automatically,
552
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:47.639
they're wiped out undo. They're absolutely
wiped out. And so what happens
553
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:51.400
is if you're just like, how
much money have you got? When can
554
00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:55.480
I close this deal, that's gonna
show up really or right. It's amplified.
555
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:00.920
Right. Yeah, and so one
thing that we sellers to do is,
556
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:06.519
if you're in a first call or
an early call, make sure you've
557
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:10.719
done your homework and make sure you
have some questions to ask that customer.
558
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:16.079
And you all teach this. That
have to do with their strategic intent you
559
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:19.840
know, I see you all are
going into three new markets that year.
560
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.639
How's that going to affect you in
your room? Like you have got to
561
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:29.840
start that call off where the focus
is on the customer, because a lot
562
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.360
of customers are coming to the call
going so what do you got? They'll
563
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:37.840
they'll prompt you to a show and
tell just because they don't know what else
564
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.360
to do. So you've got to
be really planful so that you can make
565
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.840
that call about them instead of just
about you, and that that homework has
566
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:49.960
to go beyond asking the sort of
what I think is cliche that like what's
567
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:52.880
keeping you up at night questions.
You should already know that, right.
568
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:58.039
I was gonna say one of the
previous episodes of this podcast I was talking
569
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.599
to somebody and he talked about you
have to instead come into those conversations saying
570
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:05.360
here's three things that should be keeping
up at night, because I know that's
571
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:08.039
what other people in your role or
your industry are doing. and which which
572
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:12.119
of these resonates with you sort of
thing, and go that way. It's
573
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.400
you have to flip it around.
If I could go back in my own
574
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:20.280
early career and one thing we've done
for a lot of clients is I wish
575
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:25.400
I had better business intelligence, and
what I mean by that is you should
576
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.440
know if you've got three typical buyers, if your buyers are CMO, head
577
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:37.119
of HR sales, enablement strategy,
whoever your buvirus, you should know the
578
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:42.480
compelling hot issues for a person typically
in that role. Yeah, like you
579
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.800
should know that so that you can
say you know, you and I have
580
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:51.920
probably both dealt with chief revenue officers. So challenge for chief revenue officers now
581
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:58.920
is the economy's opened up very high
targets that they have to get and they
582
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.159
have to keep their people in acually
engaged in not quitting. So, like
583
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:06.280
I better be really fluid and how
to do both of those things before I
584
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:10.119
jump on a call. Yeah,
what's the link you think between purpose and
585
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:14.679
because a lot of these things were
you know, we talked about it's making
586
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:20.639
a difference in customers lives and customer
impact and, you know, improving everything
587
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:25.320
related to the customer. That's got
a link directly to sort of the importance
588
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.400
of an ethical approach to selling.
And obviously that's that's what we preach,
589
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:32.519
you know, it's it's in our
name. But what? So, what
590
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:38.199
do you think is the link between
having a your noble purpose and maintaining a
591
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:44.559
truly ethical approach to selling? Your
noble purpose is about how you improve life
592
00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:51.599
for customers and it should lead you
down the path of ethical selling. And,
593
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:55.039
having said that, I believe that
most people are ethical and most people
594
00:45:55.079 --> 00:46:00.079
want to do the right thing and
when we think of all the example of
595
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.519
people who haven't done the right thing, we tend to pluck them out as
596
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:09.199
if they are individuals. I'll use
wells fargo as an example, where it
597
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:15.679
was just a few bad apples,
when actually those people are acting in accordance
598
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:19.559
with the culture, and even the
people at the top of the culture might
599
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.199
not have been bad people. They
didn't say go. And then a bunch
600
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.599
of accounts and and doing the customers
for all this. But when you think
601
00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:34.920
about ethical selling, when you're true
north is hit the numbers at all costs,
602
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:39.320
you open up the door for even
people who normally might be ethical to
603
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:44.800
cut corners and and I'm sure there's
some awful people in the world, we
604
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.599
know that, but what I see
is the majority of people are just trying
605
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:52.159
to do a good job make a
living. And when you create a climate
606
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:58.599
that says hitting the numbers is everything, you might take a normally ethical person
607
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.039
who doesn't want to lose their job, hop because they want to provide for
608
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:06.800
themselves and their family, and they
might start going on that side. And
609
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:14.239
so the real ownness is on every
leader to say we're here to improve life
610
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:21.920
for customers in ways that are ethical
and every illness is on the individual to
611
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.880
say that. I remember I worked
with someone who's one of the best customer
612
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:30.639
service people I've ever worked with,
and she told us about this other company
613
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:35.800
that she worked for where they would
tell people they had this lie that they
614
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:38.480
would say. They would say they
had a fire in the factory when orders
615
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.960
relate, and she said you had
to write down who you said that too,
616
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.519
so you didn't use the story more
than once. And it was interesting
617
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:51.320
because I had two years of experiences
being the best customer support person I'd ever
618
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.840
had. But when she told me
that story and I realized she was part
619
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.039
of it, and she's only twenty
years old when she was part of it,
620
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.440
I kind of changed how I thought
about her and and and she was
621
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.079
super nice and she was very young
and doing it at the direction of her
622
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.880
leadership. But what I what I
gleaned from them, I wasn't much older
623
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:14.639
myself, is, whether you know
it or not, people are watching how
624
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:19.880
you conduct yourself and most people give
others the benefit of the doubt. Most
625
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:23.480
people assume people are honest, most
people assume that people are have good intent
626
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:30.039
but when you reveal something different than
that, people will not take it as
627
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.679
an isolated incident. It will become
what they think of you. That's a
628
00:48:32.679 --> 00:48:36.599
really good point. Yeah, that
they're they're not going to just dismiss it.
629
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.199
They're going to take that as a
one off right. Even if it
630
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:45.119
wasn't one off, they'll say,
oh, I must not have really known
631
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.639
him or her. And so what
we find is, and most of our
632
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.320
clients, that most people that cause
when I work with senior teams, they
633
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:58.880
already have a purpose. It's either
implicit or explicit. We're trying to help
634
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.760
them elevate it and bring it to
life with a sales team. But having
635
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:06.599
said that, I have worked with
a couple of places, three in fact,
636
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.639
where things have gone sideways in a
really bad way and a leader either
637
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:14.519
had to fix it or a new
leader came in and said we have got
638
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:21.239
to fix this. And what a
noble purpose does for you is it gets
639
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:28.719
everyone in your organization focused on aligned
around the same true north and it tends
640
00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:35.199
to inoculate you against those individual bad
behaviors. And if you have them,
641
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:38.199
they are in fact outliers. They're
not a product of your culture. Now
642
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.800
you started talking about sales managers and
the role of sales leaders and I want
643
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.199
to get into that, but but
as a sort of bridge to that a
644
00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:50.880
lot of the things that we're talking
about. What's your perspective on whether companies
645
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:53.719
can train for the things that we're
discussing? And I guess a related question
646
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:59.079
is what do you think companies get
wrong about training their their sales teams?
647
00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:04.280
It seems like you know a lot
of companies they view training as jamming product
648
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:09.440
information into reps heads and giving the
market marketing messages to memorize and demoscripts and
649
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:14.400
here's the nuts and bolts of how
you use the crm and other sort of
650
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:16.960
tactical things which are important, important
for them to know, but they put
651
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:21.599
their training all around those things.
But all the things that we've been talking
652
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:23.679
about, can you train for those
things? And and again, what do
653
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:29.920
you think companies get wrong about their
development? Absolutely can train for those things.
654
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:35.679
So I will use a parenting example. It is one thing if I
655
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.559
were to do a parenting class and
tell everyone you're trying to raise future citizens,
656
00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:45.320
you're trying to raise ethical people,
you're trying to raise people that can
657
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.840
create their own happiness. I mean
everyone's gonna go well, Duh, yeah,
658
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.719
but it's completely another thing if I
say here are common scenarios with five
659
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:58.480
year olds. Let's play out how
you handle this. Here are common scenarios
660
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.079
with fifteen year olds. Let's lay
out how you handle this. Here's this
661
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:06.039
conversation you might want to have with
your kids. Let's play out how you
662
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:12.239
started. Backgroup of parents is going
to be so much better in the moment
663
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:17.320
because they've practiced these things. And
so as leaders, when you train yourself,
664
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:20.320
people like, yeah, you gotta
train them how to use the crn.
665
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.760
Yeah, you gotta train them how
to you know what your products are.
666
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:27.039
But so much of the mistake people
make is they think if I can
667
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.840
just load their lips with the perfect
language and give them this great message,
668
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:36.239
the customer will agree. And that's
not what you want to do. What
669
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:40.239
you want to do is you want
to have done so many practices with your
670
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:45.079
people and have their knowledge be so
deep and baked in that they are conversationally
671
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:47.719
fluid in the things that you want
them to do. So, just like
672
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:51.760
that parenting class, you can give
me the perfect script but like if my
673
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:53.480
kids says it differently, I'm gonna
go, AH, what am I gonna
674
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:57.920
do? But if we've done practice
after practice after practice, in the second
675
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.519
that comes up I go I know
what to do here, and so you
676
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:02.719
absolutely can for train for this.
And what you're trained for it. You're
677
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:08.239
trained for two things. You're training
for a mental model that they can carry
678
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:13.360
with them from call to call to
call to call, good or bad,
679
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:17.000
and then you're also training for some
skills because we already know the scenarios that
680
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:22.679
they're most likely an encounter and we're
not trying to script them. But it's
681
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.559
just like an actor or an actress. You can tell when they're sort of
682
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:30.199
reaching for the line because they're trying
to get the script, versus you can
683
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:35.079
tell when it's so deep within them
that they are connecting with the audience.
684
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.400
That's how we want our sellers on
that third level. Yeah, like we
685
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:42.599
say, it's you've got to develop
sales people from the standpoint of skill and
686
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:45.840
will, because if you develop the
skill doesn't mean that they're actually going to
687
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.280
do it if they don't have that
true north, that purpose. They don't.
688
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.519
And I'll tell you how I develop
selling one noble purpose. There's a
689
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:58.800
big story in the book about the
research, but the reason I came to
690
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:01.599
it was I had been a sales
trainer for a lot of different companies.
691
00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:05.960
I was a contract sales trainer for
a solid decade when my kids were young,
692
00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:09.960
and what I came to realize that
there were so many good sales trainings
693
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:14.480
out there that talked about putting the
customer first, but the reason it fell
694
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:17.280
apart in the field is because,
when it came to the field, the
695
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.679
true north was always the number and
so I had to find a way to
696
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:25.800
make the true north the customer impact, because then the skills stick because they
697
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:30.760
are in the service of that.
That's really good. So let's talk about
698
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.480
because it's directly related to training rights, is again the role of the sales
699
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:37.280
manager, and you write in the
book about sales managers as the quote,
700
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:42.679
frontline belief builders. Can you talk
about what you think the role of the
701
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.840
sales leader should be today, whether
it's, you know, Reinforcing Training,
702
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:51.840
coaching, reducing people's anxieties, their
self doubts, all those sorts of things
703
00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.960
like what what do you think their
role is? And and our companies adequately
704
00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:01.840
preparing people that are promoted into sales
leadership roles to actually leading, leading coach?
705
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:06.559
So let's take the first question.
Our Company is adequately preparing? In
706
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:09.599
most cases the answer is no.
We promote the best seller and then we
707
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.519
go congratulation at your sales manager.
At least that's what happened to me.
708
00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:19.960
But managers are the frontline belief builders, and what I mean by that is
709
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:24.719
a seller is going to hear from
the C r o the CEO on occasion,
710
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:30.119
but the manager is the primary voice
in their ear. And so we
711
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:34.440
tend to train managers on is.
Here's how you do your pipeline calls,
712
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.480
here's how you do it is,
but we don't train them on this important
713
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:43.400
thing called belief. And so I'm
gonna give you a shortcut, a super
714
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.760
simple, very powerful thing that sales
managers can do, and it's what we
715
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.280
call the game changing questions. So
everybody knows. I'll give you an example.
716
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.800
Everybody knows manager does the pipeline review
and we sit down and I say,
717
00:54:54.800 --> 00:54:58.400
well, so I see God,
Opportunity, x, Y Z.
718
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:00.119
What are the questions? I asked. How much is it gonna BE?
719
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:02.639
When are you going to close it? Do you have all the decision makers
720
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:07.000
in the room? WHO's the competition? What's the likelihood? To all those
721
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:12.239
very important questions. And a lot
of sales leaders think that asking those questions
722
00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.760
is coaching right, he is coaching. It is not coaching. You're asking
723
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:17.920
a seller to report on something and
half the time when they tell it to
724
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.599
you, you ask them to change
it. Are you sure it's thinking said?
725
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:23.559
I think it's a Dy. Yeah, it's, but anyhow, that's
726
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:28.480
not coaching. It is information reporting. It is just like asking your kid
727
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:30.239
when do you have to be there? What do you need for practice?
728
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:36.960
Like it's important, but it's not. It's not parenting. So here is
729
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.440
the question you ask. We've gone
through all your stuff. Will, you
730
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:45.000
told me about this one single question, will, how will this customer be
731
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:51.440
different as a result of doing business
with us? Now, I am the
732
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:54.039
manager and I asked that question,
and thank you for playing along and being
733
00:55:54.039 --> 00:56:00.159
my sales rep will, I'm the
manager. Will's brain has just gone from
734
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:02.800
all the internal stuff he needs to
know about himself and his deal and all
735
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:07.760
that. Now he's thinking about the
customer. That's where I want his brain
736
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:12.320
before he goes into that call.
So he's either gonna tell me. Well,
737
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:15.639
Miss Manager, here's how the customer
will be different. Their strategy will
738
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:19.400
change, they will be more efficient, they will do this and I'll go.
739
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:22.199
Well, will is really ready for
this call. Focus on that or
740
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:24.760
he'll go well, I don't know, they'll have our solution, in which
741
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:29.039
case, Ding, Ding, Ding. My sales rep is not ready,
742
00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:31.519
because if he can't answer to me, he can't answer to the customer.
743
00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:37.119
And so when you ask what role
do sales managers play? If you can
744
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.880
start asking this question, how will
the customer be different and you can lift
745
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:45.480
it up. So say will gives
me a great answer, then when I'm
746
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.400
talking to Susie and she gives me
a terrible answer, I can say,
747
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:51.760
well, you know, I heard
from will. Or if the sales mean
748
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:57.079
I can say will was talking about
how his customer would be different and Susie
749
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.840
had an example of the impact she
had on customers. When I start telling
750
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:05.760
those stories I'm building what I call
the tribe of true believers, because in
751
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:10.360
every culture it's the storytelling. America
we got a bunch of stories that we
752
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:15.639
tell ourselves. Now we know M
are Dru but every religion has a big
753
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:19.320
book of stories. Every family reunion
you come to tell the stories because the
754
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:23.800
stories you tell reveal the mindset,
in the ethos of the culture. So
755
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:29.039
if you want to build belief in
your sellers, may be asking how the
756
00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:31.639
customer is different as results of doing
business with you, and you need to
757
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:37.039
be telling stories about when it actually
happened. That's the manager as a belief
758
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:40.320
building and I love that that question. I remember reading that in the book
759
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.000
because it's not only a sort of
a litmus test for the salesperson and whether
760
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.679
they're prepared, but it can also
be a rallying cry for the rest of
761
00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.559
the organization. If you share that
people that are even in nuts, they
762
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:57.599
might be in customer support, customer
service, operational marketing roles, whatever it
763
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:00.880
might be. It's really helpful for
them to understand that too. And I
764
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.519
think the other thing is that it
helps you understand how to engage with the
765
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.280
customer before you win the deal and
after. Yes, right, because the
766
00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:14.599
relationship goes further than just that win. And so how will the customer be
767
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:19.280
different? Not only creates a compelling
story for your seller to talk with the
768
00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:22.679
customer about, but to your point
customer success, it should be in your
769
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:29.000
marketing. The whole ethos of your
company should be lined up around that and
770
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:34.239
what we say, in an ideal
world the company has a shared noble purpose
771
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:37.559
that everyone knows and understands, which
is about how you make a difference to
772
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:44.079
customers. Each person can draw a
direct line from their job to how they
773
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:47.239
make a difference to customers. So
it's the company and the job and then
774
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:54.039
the third pieces. Each team member
has a personal connection to that, that
775
00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:58.639
it means something to them. And
when you get those three, imagine a
776
00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.159
ven diagram with company job in person. When you get those three lined up,
777
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:06.480
man that is how you create magic
as a company. That's when you
778
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:08.639
win the market, that's when you
become the best place to work, that's
779
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:14.599
when you become an innovative company.
So we believe strongly, and we talked
780
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:17.159
about it on other episodes of this
podcast, that a salesperson's ability to ask
781
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:22.119
good questions really makes or breaks an
opportunity right, especially early on, building
782
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:27.480
that credibility and trust, not walking
in with your power point showing you know
783
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.480
all your locations and customer logos and
not asking them what's keeping them up at
784
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.159
night, that sort of thing.
But so what are you from your perspective?
785
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:39.079
What are some questions that sales people
should be asking customers more of,
786
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:43.119
like what do customers want to be
asked? And just important, just as
787
00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:49.519
importantly, how do you get salespeople
to actually to actually listen to the answers
788
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:52.960
and engage in dialogue instead of just
thinking about what the next question is?
789
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:59.639
So you've asked two questions. I'll
answer from both. So, in terms
790
00:59:59.719 --> 01:00:06.360
of what should you be asking about, if you should be asking one broad
791
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:12.840
rush example, about how the company's
strategy and goals, and you can find
792
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:15.880
this on the Internet, whatever they're
CEO said, if you're not calling on
793
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:21.760
the CEO, how those are going
to play out with your buyer. And
794
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:24.719
by that I mean so your company
is trying to do x y z.
795
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:30.199
what's your role in that? Will
how will that affect you in your department?
796
01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:32.960
Will what impact will that have on
you? You? That's the kinds
797
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.199
of questions that you want to be
asking, which are not those who keeps
798
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.480
you up at night, like salespeople
figure that out twenty five years ago.
799
01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:44.920
Buy Or don't want to hear it. You're getting to that, but you're
800
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:50.199
getting to that in a much more
skilled way, because what you're doing with
801
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:53.360
a question like that you've got this
initiative to do X Y Z as a
802
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:59.719
company. Or I know your market
has suddenly become very competitive you're revealing of
803
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:06.440
my homework and then you're asking the
customer to think deeply about how the larger
804
01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:08.639
issues are affecting them in their job. And Oh, if they don't know,
805
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.679
you might need to try and wratch
it yourself up a notch or two
806
01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:19.159
inside the company. And so that's
the kinds of questions that you want to
807
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.199
be asking of your buyer. And
then I said there were two parts and
808
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.559
I forgot the second part because I
got so into the first part. How
809
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:30.840
do salespeople actually listen to the answers
to the questions that they're asking? So
810
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:37.480
here I'm going to use a marriage
counselor example. Imagine we go to a
811
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:39.760
marriage counselor and I'm married. I've
been married for a million years and I'm
812
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:43.960
mayor, I'm a woman and I'm
married to a man. Okay, so
813
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:49.039
you need to know that importantly and
tell here. If the marriage counselor says
814
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.199
you'll need to ask each other more
questions, you need to be more interested
815
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:55.480
in each other. You need to
really listen to the answers. Both of
816
01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:00.880
us will go yes, we do, we're gonna do that, yes we
817
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:06.000
are. But then in day to
day life we might forget. So imagine
818
01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:09.280
instead if the marriage counselor says,
next time you come back here, I'm
819
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:14.320
going to ask you what was your
partner's week like? What are they worried
820
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:17.119
about most right now? What are
the most important things going on with them?
821
01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:20.400
I'm going Oh, ship, I
don't want to look battened for the
822
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:23.639
marriage council. I better get the
answers. So how do you get sellers
823
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:29.159
to listen more? Is You the
leader, and we've got five problems that
824
01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:32.760
we use. You, the leader, consistently ask what's going on in this
825
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:37.360
customer's environment? What are their biggest
challenges? What are they trying to accomplish
826
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.239
within the scope of their job?
What does success look like for them?
827
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:45.519
What does lack of success look like
them? You, the leader, are
828
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:51.239
always asking your seller those questions about
that deep customer intelligence. If your boss
829
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:53.960
is not doing this, you need
to ask them of yourself. And one
830
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:59.280
thing that really helps sellers is if
you have a thirty minute call, forty
831
01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.800
five mint call, just make a
mental note whatever time you started, what's
832
01:03:02.840 --> 01:03:07.719
the halfway mark, and say I'm
gonna talk about myself after the halfway mark's
833
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:14.960
super simple. That will give you
the space to relax and say, in
834
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.440
the first half of this call,
I'm gonna find out as much about them
835
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:22.239
and what's going on with them and
their goals and initiatives as I possibly can,
836
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.920
and you need to have some confidence
that whatever they reveal, you'll be
837
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:30.079
able to connect to it, because
you probably will if you're talking to the
838
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:35.159
right fire and again, it's all
it all goes back to the question you
839
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:37.920
talked about earlier of focusing on how
will this customer be different as a result
840
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:40.920
of doing business with us? Right, right, so I want to spend
841
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:45.320
at least half my time, especially
in those early calls, maybe more leaning
842
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:53.320
in saying I want to figure out
where this customer, this buyer, this
843
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:58.079
company, where they're going, what
they're trying to accomplish the larger scope of
844
01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:01.880
things, what the compelling issues are, because they wouldn't be talking to me
845
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:05.199
if they didn't already think that in
some way I could help them. So
846
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:12.440
just give yourself that space and don't
be so worried about trying to bring up
847
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:15.239
you like if you it's it's almost
like speed dating, which used to be
848
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:19.239
popular, where you have like fifteen
minutes or seven minutes. You spend the
849
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:23.639
whole time talking about yourself, you're
probably not going to get another date.
850
01:04:23.800 --> 01:04:26.960
Well, and and and the last
point I'd make on that as it goes
851
01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:30.159
back to what you talked about before, which is, and this is around
852
01:04:30.199 --> 01:04:32.800
the importance of your brand and and
marketing leading up to the call, because
853
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:36.280
all that stuff is available to the
customer and they wouldn't be on the they
854
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:39.760
wouldn't be on the phone with you
to begin with, around a zoom call
855
01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:43.039
to begin with, if they didn't
find all that stuff about you and find
856
01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:45.760
you credible. Yeah, and so
you can. It doesn't have to be
857
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.679
awkward. They'll go. So,
what have you got for me? I'm
858
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:51.960
really interested in your X Y Z
saying. Well, I am delighted to
859
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:56.079
hear that. If we could spend
a couple of minutes, I've done some
860
01:04:56.159 --> 01:04:59.320
homework and know a little bit about
you, but if we could spend just
861
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:00.360
a couple of minute, so I
got a couple of questions for you,
862
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:04.119
that would help me direct my comments. So, I mean, you pivot
863
01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:08.480
just like that and you say so. You guys are trying to do x
864
01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:13.000
y Z. strikes me that someone
in your role is probably worried about Baba,
865
01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:15.119
if I was talking to a chief
revenue officer, I'd say, I
866
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:20.320
see you guys have some really aggressive
sales goals. Someone in your role has
867
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:24.280
probably got a lot of pressure on
them to deal with that, but they
868
01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:28.679
also need to keep their sales team
happy and emotionally engaged. How are you
869
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.199
dealing with that? We're gonna have
a good conversation from that point on,
870
01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:35.679
much more substantive, right and and
the truth is I really want to know.
871
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:41.599
It's not some question that I'm asking
to hope that they say this.
872
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:44.559
I really want to know. And
if they go, Oh, shoot,
873
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:46.159
I've never thought of that, or
Oh, let me tell you about either
874
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:49.559
way, I can deal with the
answer because I can probably help them.
875
01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:54.760
Yeah, so we're just about at
the end of our time. I wanted
876
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:58.760
to wrap with one last question for
you to get, you know, something
877
01:05:58.800 --> 01:06:02.480
practical addition to everything you've already given
that people can take away as people listen
878
01:06:02.519 --> 01:06:05.599
to this and they think about like
all right, what's my what's my purpose?
879
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:10.360
What's my true not right, what
are some questions that sales people should
880
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:14.079
ask themselves to help them create their
own, I think, as you call
881
01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:18.719
it, their own purpose statement?
Yeah, noble purpose statements, and it's
882
01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:24.360
noble because it's in the service of
others. So the first thing I would
883
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:29.320
say is don't put too much pressure
on yourself. Don't feel like it's forever,
884
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:31.239
and I mean if you want to
go off and, you know,
885
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:36.320
hike in the Wilderness for two weeks
and do some soul searching, have at
886
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:40.199
it. Now's a good time to
do that. But if you want to
887
01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.760
make better sales calls this afternoon,
here's what you can do, and it's
888
01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:49.960
in the book. You ask yourself
the question, how does what we sell
889
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:55.920
make a difference? And keep pushing
yourself. What if we didn't do it?
890
01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:59.239
What if they didn't have it?
What happens when it works really well?
891
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.400
Really Search and say what's the ripple
effect? How does what we sell,
892
01:07:02.639 --> 01:07:06.840
how do I, make a difference? Then ask yourself that second question.
893
01:07:08.199 --> 01:07:11.440
How do we do it differently?
And you may have some innovation that's
894
01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:15.000
completely different, or it may just
be we care more. And then really
895
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:18.880
reflect on your best day. What
do you love about your job? And
896
01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:23.079
I guarantee you may go back to
some of those days when you score the
897
01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:28.599
big sale and got the big commission. I will also guarantee you that part
898
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:33.079
of that was knowing that you made
a difference this. Once we get beyond
899
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:39.119
food and shelter, people want belonging
and significance, and so it doesn't matter
900
01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:42.559
who you work for at this moment
in time, doesn't matter what your leadership
901
01:07:42.639 --> 01:07:47.760
is doing, when you can create
a narrative for yourself that you reset against
902
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:50.400
how you make a difference and how
you do it differently and what you love
903
01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:55.440
about your job. The data tells
us that you will close more sales,
904
01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:00.360
you will force stronger connections with your
customers. Your win right, we'll go
905
01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:02.400
up, your customer retention will go
up and here's the other thing, you'll
906
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:08.119
be happy because you're going to show
up for work every day no matter what.
907
01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:15.639
You deserve to enjoy it, and
it's the difference between being that exhausted
908
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:17.359
kind of tired at the end of
the day where it was just a rat
909
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.319
race, versus what I called the
good tired, when you're tired at the
910
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:25.760
end of the day, which you
know you did something that mattered, you
911
01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:30.760
know you accomplished something. Yeah,
so this has been excellent. As I
912
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:32.479
said at the at the outset,
Lisa, I was eager to have you
913
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.760
on this show because I really felt
like your point of view about selling maps
914
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:40.399
closest to what this, this podcast, is all about, and I think
915
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:44.600
that's Um that's proven out over the
last hours. So I hope everybody that
916
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:49.319
has listened to this enjoys it and
takes some some really practical and important things
917
01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:54.439
to heart that they can they can
do around this. You can find Lisa
918
01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:59.800
and connect with her on Linkedin,
on twitter. Her twitter handle is Lisa
919
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.840
Earl McLeod. That's Lisa E A
R L E McLeod, M C L
920
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:13.000
E O D and Her website is
McLeod and more dot Com. That's McLeod
921
01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:16.680
and more M O R E dot
Com. Again, you can connect with
922
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:20.319
her on on Linkedin and, of
course, the book selling with noble purpose
923
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:25.720
you can get wherever you get your
books from. Lisa, thank you so
924
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:29.640
much again for being with us today. It's been such a pleasure. I
925
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:32.760
have long admired your company and what
you've done. You are early, early,
926
01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:38.880
early on sales as integrity and a
noble profession. So it was I
927
01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:42.439
was really delighted to get the invite. Now I'll tell folks I appreciate you
928
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.119
sharing where you can find me if
you follow me on Linkedin. We post
929
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:50.920
tons of video content and it's free. Oh so, follow me on Linkedin
930
01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:56.680
and get the work on purpose newsletter. They're both free and it's super crazy
931
01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:00.319
excellent. Well, thank you again, Lisa. Thanks to every one for
932
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:04.239
listening to us today. I'm will
Milano with integrity solutions. We look forward
933
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:08.399
to having you join us for our
next episode a couple of weeks from now
934
01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:12.119
and of course, on mental selling. If there are any other previous episodes
935
01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:15.840
you haven't listened to, please do
and also, when you can, give
936
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.720
us a like or or subscribe,
give us a review. We love to
937
01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:23.239
get feedback on how we can make
the show better and until next time,
938
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:30.199
thanks everyone for joining us. Holley, you've been listening to mental selling and
939
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:34.039
integrity solutions podcast. Stay in touch
with us by subscribing to the show in
940
01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:39.640
your favorite podcast player and following us
on Linkedin and twitter. Please give us
941
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.920
a rating, leave a comment and
share episodes you love. That helps us
942
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:48.079
keep empowering sales and service leaders to
master the mental side of selling. Until
943
01:10:48.199 --> 01:10:53.159
next time, let's go out and
create amazing customer experiences.
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