It's Time for a New Marketing Scorecard, with Myles Madden

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:23.039 Welcome into B two B growth. Everybody excited to have miles madden with me 3 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:29.160 today. He's the senior demand generation manager at observe AI. Miles, welcome 4 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:33.000 into B two B growth. Happy to be here. Pungi appreciate your bringing 5 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.880 me on. It's gonna be a good conversation. I know we've been doing 6 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:41.640 some work here at sweet fish on just how we think and how we measure 7 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.880 our marketing efforts and and then running some social ads and all that sort of 8 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:50.200 thing, and so that's put us in contact with miles. Miles. Before 9 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:54.920 we jump into like conversation around measurement, just give me like your background for 10 00:00:54.960 --> 00:01:00.200 a second. Are you analytical numbers guy just like that's your nature, or 11 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.359 how did this become one of those core focuses for you? Yeah, that's 12 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.840 a great question. I'm definitely data informed. I know a lot of times 13 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:11.439 we hear data driven, but there's definitely plenty of times where we're making decisions 14 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:15.120 on inaccurate data. So I like to say I'm data informed rather than strictly 15 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:19.280 by the by the numbers. But another thing to add there, although I'm 16 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:23.319 data informed. When I said data, I mean both quantitative and qualitative data. 17 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:26.079 I look at both pieces of data equally. Um, I know there's 18 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.079 a ton of system the quantitative part, but I think it's really important to 19 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.799 look at both those pieces. But to answer your question, I'm definitely analytical, 20 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:40.239 but in the common sense of analytical. I look at the qualitative and 21 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.640 quantitative aspects. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you just have seen that 22 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:49.200 overtime. Like it's so important to hold both because otherwise, like, data 23 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:53.519 can be very misleading and if you get set up on the wrong path because 24 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:57.760 you're just looking at the numbers like, there's there's all sorts of potential for 25 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.719 wrong terms, even though the data mightbe you say that it's driving you right. 26 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:06.640 Yeah, absolutely, that's well sad. And Yeah, one point on 27 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.759 that. There's there's kind of two common issues I see with with many companies. 28 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.479 Number one, like I said, data inaccuracy. It's looking at data 29 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.639 that's just not filtered properly or it's just not right. I mean, I 30 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:23.439 don't need to explain that any more detail. And the other common issue I 31 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:25.719 see within many companies is they're just looking at the wrong data, the wrong 32 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.599 metrics and you can be data driven, but if you're looking at the wrong 33 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:37.800 metrics, you may not drive the company forward because you're making decisions on metrics 34 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.280 that won't drive you forward. Talk to me about that a little bit more, 35 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:44.360 like how have you seen companies get that wrong? What are the metrics 36 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.759 that maybe CEO S C suite holds up that you're like okay, well, 37 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.960 now we're driving in the wrong direction. What are some of those maybe red 38 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.319 flags for you that you're you've noticed? Yeah, yeah, we're definitely gonna 39 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:58.159 get it into this more. When we discussed the marketing measurement framework that I 40 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.560 follow, but a lot of times there's there's a few things that I see 41 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:06.719 and I'll talk to this in light of communicating with executive and other departments. 42 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:09.919 Number One, I'm sure most of us have heard this, but marketing is 43 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.520 typically scored on M quels or leads. Number one, leads usually defined as 44 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.479 a contact in a database by many companies. Unfortunately, when a tru lead 45 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:24.479 is someone with intent, not just an email address in the first and last 46 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.759 name. But that's one one area, and then they'll add some criteria to 47 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:34.439 that lead and call it M Quel, which is typically some sort of promographic 48 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.280 fit, maybe company size or revenue bands, maybe a job title, anything 49 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:44.159 like that. But what's interesting a lot of companies are marketing teams are gauging 50 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.599 their success in those two metrics, leads around Quels, and if you look 51 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.280 at the down final progression or the conversion rates of M Quel to an opportunity 52 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.360 or customer, it's less than one percent, and so it's not efficient. 53 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:02.199 It's not a great representation of business growth. That's typically when you hear sales 54 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:09.439 teams saying marketing sending jump leads, because they're sending them five thousand contexts in 55 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:14.120 a database, not people that actually have intent to purchase the product. That's 56 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:16.639 one area that I see a lot of marketing teams making wrong decisions on. 57 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.680 It's just mque all volume and lead volume and then uh, and that's how 58 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:25.399 marketing is, that's how their success is defined by some leadership. And then 59 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.199 I know you've got a question. I'll touch on one more. A lot 60 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:31.680 of times marketing teams will bring what I conserve Andy Metrics. So website traffic 61 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:40.160 metrics don't look at CTRS for paid social campaigns or just strictly conversions from paid 62 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.439 switch campaigns. And this means nothing at leadership level, right, like a 63 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.879 CEO could care less about how many impressions you had or the quick the rate 64 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:53.360 of add so those are some common metrics I see that marketing is scored on 65 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:59.120 or their successes seamed from that. I think are just tearful metrics and be 66 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.360 candidatebut it too optimize your marketing and grow business from. I think it's interesting 67 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:08.160 because, like, if you zoom out a little bit from both of those 68 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:12.199 issues that you just highlighted, it comes back to like clear defined goals and 69 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:16.920 communication and whether it's the way that marketing speaks the rest of the organization, 70 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:20.839 like Hey, we're we're going to prove our value by just having an abundance 71 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.959 of M Qs, like look at all of these emails we got, look 72 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.879 at these lists we have, and then you get like such a low conversion 73 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:31.319 rate that it's like okay, cool, you hit your number. But we 74 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.120 never, and this is where the communication lack of focus comes in, like 75 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:41.199 we never really established internally like what a qualified lead is. We never had 76 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.959 the good back and forth that got us to a point where we agreed. 77 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.680 And then marketing has looked at like sure, they generated a ton of leads, 78 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:49.160 but I mean I won't use the language I want to use about what 79 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:54.120 those the quality of those leads a like. So that's that's that side. 80 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.680 And then, like, I just think it's communication from both aspects. Like 81 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.399 if once you've clearly define mind what a qualified lead is, and then you 82 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:08.199 clearly qualified metrics, because there are campaigns where even some vanity metrics. If 83 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:13.839 you educate up as a marketer and you tell the C suite why those metrics 84 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:17.800 matter for just this campaign, this thing we're doing, you have an opportunity 85 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:23.079 as a marketing leader to show that there are times for things like that, 86 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:27.720 that actually it can drive brand right. But your CEO is not naturally going 87 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.240 to be in brand world. They're probably living in demand world and you better 88 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:34.240 have good campaigns on that side before you're just looking at impressions. So I 89 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.160 think communication really stands out to me with both of those those issues. Am 90 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:42.720 I onto something there? Orgy like? Where would you wrestle with that? 91 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.759 Yeah, I th your your spot on with that, and that's Um, 92 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.800 a lot of those sales teams are scarred by marketing teams. I think marketing 93 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:55.240 is always consistently under delivered. I shouldn't say always, that's a pretty aggressive 94 00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:00.519 comment, but marking has consistently undelivered. The metrics up in poor and so 95 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:02.879 if I put myself in the shoes of a sales team, I would be 96 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.800 upset with marketing and I wouldn't trust marketing and I would think that I need 97 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:13.399 to go create business myself. And so when I put my perspective in terms 98 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.839 of sales, I completely agree why number one, communication is really important. 99 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:23.959 But why? They may even be resistant to communication even now, and that's 100 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.560 why this this is one of the main topics of our conversation today. But 101 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.079 that's why I think it's really important that we tear down the current marketing measurement 102 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:34.360 framework and implement something new, because if we continue to say hey, with 103 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.759 the M quels, we're we're going to add this different criteria to it, 104 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.439 the past twenty years salespeople, I should say probably fifteen now, but the 105 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:47.439 past fifteen years sales teams, have been hearing that we're going to change the 106 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.480 criteria and m quels and the equality is going to be better. Fast forward 107 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.160 six months. Qualities not not better. Marketing is hitting its goal of sales 108 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.040 is not, and we still have that that the states in the terms of 109 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.160 sales team smells. So I agree with your communication is exceptionally important, but 110 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.319 marketing is almost like a little kid that lives and sales just over it. 111 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.759 Like. So, yeah, the clear metrics defined by sales and marketing having 112 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.000 some overlap and how those things work. Like I'm glad that that's becoming such 113 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.439 a focal point in conversations that were even featuring on B two B growth because, 114 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.959 yeah, like it's been a long time coming and I'm that's why I 115 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.079 love this work and that's why I'm glad that we're gonna talk about a new 116 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.639 form of scorecards. So let's go there when we want to advocate for a 117 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:39.279 scorecard that that appropriately gets all of us on the same page. How how 118 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.480 have you seen, like, let's first paint a picture of not not in 119 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:46.919 the nitty gritty of like this is what's on the scorecard, but when that's 120 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.840 functioning at its best, how have you seen that transform a team? And 121 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.519 when people adopt this model, what can they expect long term? Yeah, 122 00:08:54.559 --> 00:09:00.559 short term, short term, it's painful. Obviously Change Management and there's disruption 123 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.679 to that, but long term, simply, but I just see businesses grow 124 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.559 much, much more effectively and efficiently, which is great for motivation. This 125 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.200 new measurement framework is great for marketing creativity. So no longer do we have 126 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.440 the entire marketing department trying to figure out how to some how to have someone 127 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.360 fill out of form, but actually communicating to the market and educating on the 128 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.480 market in a way that they want to be educated, and this is a 129 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.840 very important part, in a creative way. A lot of times when teams, 130 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.720 currently marketing teams, are trying to drive form fills, there's only so 131 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.080 you can only get so creative with that and your main priority is to get 132 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.159 someone fill out of field rather than educate a message and creativity severely impacted. 133 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:48.919 So anyways, I address. It's great for rail and motivation and you're actually 134 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:56.720 aligned on growing a company rather than trying to prove the ry of your department 135 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.960 or the rule of your department. So long term, yeah, I just 136 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.559 paying a very pretty picture, but it's it's what I've experienced. It's much 137 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.159 better than what's been happening. Yeah, because you and you alluded to this. 138 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:11.559 Like it's not going to be an overnight change. I think the last 139 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.039 question before we get into what you're actually measuring is are you advocating to start 140 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.080 with, like one to two measurements that were about to outline? What's the 141 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.799 implementation process like for this, so people can have that in their minds before 142 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.799 we go? Here's what you should start measuring. Here's an abundance of things 143 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:28.919 that miles was telling us to do. Like I don't want to scare anyone 144 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.000 away by saying you need to throw out your old score card and now you're 145 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.600 doing this brand new thing. So what is the implementation process like, miles? 146 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.360 First I would would keep your current dashboards and your marketing measurement framework. 147 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.000 So don't just trash it and and move to this through marketing measurement model, 148 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:50.080 because there's going to be some pushback, especially in the short term. So 149 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.600 keep your current marketing measure model. The traditional model is the it's m q 150 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.440 l, s q l, s Qos. Some marketing teams look at marketing 151 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:03.200 source tref no, don't see very money, but keep that. And then 152 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.519 the measurement framework I'm I'm about through outline create that dashboard, and so that's 153 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:13.840 that's my first piece of advice. At both dashboards running simultaneously and actually let's 154 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.799 stop there. Let's get into this marketing measurement framework. It will make more 155 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.279 sense the point number two I was going to bring up. So let's just 156 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.519 jump in through it. I like that you're saying, though, start with 157 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.720 measuring them side by side. I think that that's an important way to do 158 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.759 it. We're not trashing something old. And then also that helps when we're 159 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.960 talking about educating up in the organization or other people that you're accountable to something. 160 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.480 You just hey, here's what we've been doing, here's something else we're 161 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.440 trying like, and then you can show the traction you're getting in the new 162 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.600 system instead of, I think we're just so guilty of like all or nothing. 163 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.559 or I'll just speak for me, like I that's a natural tendency in 164 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:48.320 my brain that I have to combat. So, okay, we're here. 165 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.120 We're ready for you to break it down. Tell us what you're advocating for, 166 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:56.159 what we should be measuring. Absolutely and one quick side note. Um. 167 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.720 This kind of ties into something that I called a twenty rule. Everything 168 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:03.679 that I do is eight typical work what I do, but I leave of 169 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.720 my work to experimentation, and that rule applies to something like this. This 170 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:13.000 is an experiment. It's an experiment of a new measurement framework. So keep 171 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.759 of your efforts on your current measurement framework and then this would be that of 172 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:22.879 experimentation. So yeah, let's get into this measurement framework. So there's a 173 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:28.000 outline the marketing KPI s, and then it's kind of a a tiered system. 174 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.279 So I'll go through the metrics and then the cadence at which you should 175 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.159 actually review these metrics and when you should be pulling away insights and when you 176 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.399 should be making decisions. So starting with the first here. Like I said, 177 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.840 there's three tiers here. The first here are the marketing KPIS, and 178 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:50.039 so how I de Marketing Success is marketings. First Revenue, and that is 179 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:54.840 business that comes through the website. It's marketing source. Number two is customer 180 00:12:54.879 --> 00:13:03.480 acquisition costs. A lot of teams will only report and advertising. CACK advertising 181 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.840 customer acquisition costs. I prefer to take a look at marketing cack, but 182 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:13.039 that includes his marketing tech and head count and then obviously your your advertising costs. 183 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.840 Reason, and I won't to go into this and too much depth, 184 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:22.159 but the reason I like marketing over ad cack is that working does control? 185 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.679 It's obviously it's tech spend and obviously the head count spend. Keep your headcount 186 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.759 spend where it's at, but I think a lot of marketing teams can trim 187 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:33.799 their tex stack. Yeah, I think we spend way too much tech, 188 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.639 but that's a conversation for another time. But adding that market in cack will 189 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:43.399 make you realize that the customer acquisition cost is so high, maybe not necessarily 190 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.320 because the advertising costs, maybe because we have so much stinking tech in here 191 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:52.080 that we don't need. That's metric number two. And then metric number three 192 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.000 is pipeline velocity, and this is essentially how quickly revenue is moving through a 193 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.600 pipeline. That's that's that first here market, source of revenue, market in 194 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:07.440 CAC and pipeline phlosity. That's they're going to want to monitor at the monthly 195 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.960 level, but look at the quarterly level. So I'm I'm every day I'm 196 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.799 looking at my dashboards, so I'm seeing what the revenue coming in is and 197 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.919 and I see those numbers, but I'm not overreacting or be becoming emotional to 198 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.840 those numbers or critical of those numbers, and so I'm actually looking at the 199 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:30.519 quarterly level, especially when you're looking at a product that has a relatively longer 200 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:35.799 sales cycle. So before I go into my second and third tier, I'll 201 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.879 stop. I'm sure there may be some questions. If not, well, 202 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.879 I think I think it's good because you're unifying from that that base tier, 203 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:48.480 like here's the core things we're looking at. I like the monthly cadence because 204 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.600 otherwise you could be in chaos around Oh, we need to try or tweak 205 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.279 or change this thing, when you don't actually have sustained period of time to 206 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.759 know what's working and what's not. So I think with that first year I 207 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.960 would assume, and maybe this is a bad assumption miles. You can tell 208 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.519 me if it's if I'm wrong, but do you get a lot of push 209 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.679 back with any of those metrics? Because like to me those that's like the 210 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.440 baseline of good marketing conversation. It's gonna be really hard. That's that's the 211 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:18.759 amazing thing. I'm typically not met with pushback, but I'm met with excited 212 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:26.919 curiosity. Marketing historically has not focused on true business impact. It's simulated business 213 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:33.320 impact on culls and leads, but actually saying I'm accountable for revenue. I'm 214 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.639 accountable for the costs that which we acquire customers and the scalability of the programs 215 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.159 that I'm running. Yeah, never getting pushed back is there's there's that excitement 216 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.879 around. Okay, marketing actually wants to be accountable for something that has a 217 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.320 direct, positive or negative impact on the business. And then that created that 218 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.480 curiosity. Okay, how are you actually going to do this? How will 219 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.000 you measure it? And the questions that are typically some from that. My 220 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:07.480 main kind of question would be, like to implement this? What like you're 221 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.480 talking about even like tech stack, like trimming that, but like are there 222 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.240 key tools that you're using that you feel like are absolutely necessary for tracking some 223 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.320 of this, or can you do this all, like breaking it down in 224 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:18.759 a spreadsheet, like what's the one point? Oh, version of this, 225 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:23.080 miles actually tracking? Yeah, you can do a spreadsheet, but I have 226 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:29.360 the advise, regardless of the size of your business, to get either hubspot 227 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.120 if you're a smaller business, or salesforce to want that crum so you can 228 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.799 actually manage and organize the contacts and really helpful for the sales team to keep 229 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.919 up to date with they should be in communication with just aligning all of us 230 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:48.080 on the stage of context and how much revenue is being generated and pipeline velocity 231 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.320 as well. Lot's great. Yeah, exactly. So, at the very 232 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:56.840 least I suggest the crm. But there are certain things like advertising customer acquisition 233 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.360 costs or marketing customer acquisition costs and pipeline lost. See, those you're not 234 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.599 going to be able to create in the crm. So those you pull out 235 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:10.319 and calculate those in a spreadsheet and build your grass either in whatever, whatever 236 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.720 you use cruel sheets or Mael. Right on. All right, yeah, 237 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.799 keep taking us through this. Go. Let's go up a tire. Alrighty. 238 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.279 So next we're going to the second tier and there's two buckets in the 239 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:26.720 second tier. Simply put, the second tier is the early indicator two business 240 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.160 results, that revenue in those customer acquisition costs and pipeline velocity. And so 241 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:37.079 the first bucket or quantitative metrics. In the second bucket or qualitative metrics. 242 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:41.480 So on the quantitative side we have a metric called hero, which I'll talk 243 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.759 about that in a second, and the cost per hero and then we have 244 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.519 demo volume and then, depending on if you have a plg motion, you 245 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.839 can have your fruit trials in there now, hero. This is the really 246 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.119 important one, and sales teams love this. This is a high intendent revenue 247 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.920 opportunity. This was created by refined labs, so I cannot take this, 248 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.839 uh, this new metric that was created by them. Essentially, all this 249 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:11.599 is is an opportunity that closes at a rate of or more to a customer 250 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.720 and at whatever stage there at. So some companies at Stage three, some 251 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.279 companies that stage two, and it's trailing six months. So it is a 252 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:26.880 moving target. Let's say you're closing opportunities to a customer at Stage three and 253 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.400 then your your context become more qualified earlier in the process and that moves to 254 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:34.359 stage two. That's when you then align on Stage two, because that's winning 255 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:40.559 at now. I said, sales teams love this, and it's particularly because 256 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.880 we're aligning on a metric that says, Hey, guys, you will win 257 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:48.240 one out of every four opportunities. Sales teams love that. I give you 258 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.279 four people and guaranteed you you to close one, and marketings needs are shaking 259 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:57.319 if they've never heard this before, and it's that's the thing. It's it's 260 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.519 definitely a hard metric to hit. That's what makes successful marketers and that's what 261 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:07.319 grows companies. The sales teams love it because no longer are we sending them 262 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.680 trash leads and marketing teams are again accountable for Revenue Um. And then under 263 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.519 that there's obviously demo volume, which is typically the conversion point that will source 264 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:19.599 most of your opportunities or, if you have a P L G motion, 265 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.720 those free trials. so that's on the quantitative side and we'll also want to 266 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.680 look at the cost for those metrics because that will give you an idea of 267 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.200 your customer acquisition costs will increase your decrease earlier on. So then we look 268 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:41.079 at the qualitative side and there's essentially two things I do on the qualitative metrics. 269 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:45.720 There's sales feedback, and so I'm actually going to sales and asking them 270 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:52.200 about contacts and opportunities the quality of them. I'm doing my my own, 271 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.079 uh, primary market research, so going and talking to buyers in the market. 272 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.599 But the other important metric is self, for word attribution, and this 273 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:07.079 is another tactic that was led by refined labs or created by refined labs, 274 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:12.119 and this metric is an open text required field on your high intendent conversion points 275 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:17.680 on your website. Typically that that demo, scheduled demo form, and that's 276 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.599 what creates the demand. That's where people I actually type in what built their 277 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.720 affinity with your brand, what made them aware of your product or solution, 278 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.799 and so now you can understand what created the demand through that self report attribution, 279 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.519 and then you also know what captured the demand or what channel being direct 280 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:41.680 or paid search or organic search. So those are the two buckets. Quantitative 281 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.880 hero and the cost for hero, Demo volume or free trial volume, and 282 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:51.680 then qualitative primary market research, research with sales team and that self report attribution. 283 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.880 When I look at hero in self reported attributions sort of on like two 284 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:02.759 sides of the scale, I think those things like are so necessary in tandem 285 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.599 and I love that it's just an open fields. We've been doing that a 286 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.839 lot longer since Chris Walker started first advocating that for who knows how long ago 287 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.440 that was. At this point I know we've been doing it for well over 288 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.880 a year, but I think of all the arguments that happened internally in orders 289 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:23.839 around attribution and and figuring that out while at the same time they're not measuring 290 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:30.319 their marketing teams by high intent revenue opportunities like there's you've got to partner those 291 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.519 things in tandem, and so I can like, hopefully you're all y'all are 292 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.960 connecting the dots as you're listening to this as to how those things happen in 293 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.880 tandem. And this is my follow up question on self reported attribution. For 294 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.440 you, miles, like if you've created some complex system. I know there's 295 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.440 people listening right now that exists in some complex attribution system. They have attribution 296 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:53.039 software, there are like deep in it and then they hear this. If 297 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:57.119 you're a marketer on that type of team, how do you start better advocating 298 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:02.319 for self report attribution? You just start put throwing it in, testing it, 299 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.400 like like what you were saying earlier. or any any thoughts there? 300 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:10.480 So this is this is a very easy shift, and so it's something called 301 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:15.599 hybrid attribution. Historically, what marketing teams have done is software based attribution, 302 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:22.240 like you said, it's it's teams that are looking at what's been attributed by 303 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.279 a software, by Hubspot, by Dream Data. What teams haven't done is 304 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.640 looked at the self report attribution. And when I say hybrid attribution, it's 305 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:36.400 bringing those together. So these teams should absolutely be looking at software based attribution, 306 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.599 because that attribution tells you how the demand was captured, how they entered 307 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.160 your pipeline self. Report attribution, which is just another column in your Dashboard 308 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:52.559 or your spreadsheet, tells you how the how the demand was created. And 309 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.000 so now we know how people found out about us, how people found out 310 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.839 about our product or category and then how they entered her pipeline, and that 311 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:07.200 tells a fuller story. So it's it's honestly very simple shift for teams that 312 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.359 are very focused on attribution. And when you think of the hero metric, 313 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:17.759 what's the like biggest pushback you get on getting getting to that? Because obviously 314 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:19.880 it's going to be an easy selling point for a sales team and I think 315 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.240 it's a unifier. But after you've worked with several teams and like, I 316 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.960 know we're even trying to right now, like we're not doing this effectively out 317 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.880 because we're right in the beginnings of it. But I'm like, what's the 318 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:37.920 biggest pushback or the hardest part of implementing that? The hero metric or the 319 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:44.680 hybrid attribution hero metric? Okay, the hardest part is the mindset shift and 320 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.839 the short term disruption, and what I mean by that. This is difficult 321 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:56.039 for teams with a large str sales organization, and the reason being is to 322 00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:03.839 hit it's certain hero volume. Your marketing execution has to change the book downloads 323 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.839 and Webinars, and I've got no issue with Webinars, but they're typically associated 324 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:12.960 with just a bunch of calls and another the generation tactic. Teams have to 325 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:18.000 move away from that and actually educate the market and that can be things like 326 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.440 running a podcast or, if you're running linkedin ads or facebook ads, ditching 327 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:30.079 the Legion campaign objective and introducing reach campaign objectives. We're educating people in feed 328 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.559 around your product, around your category, or even thought leadership to build the 329 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:38.519 affinity with that brand. And so what happens? Because we ditch these lead 330 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:45.359 generation initiatives? Lead volume and M que volume decreases, but the interesting part 331 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.640 is that qualified pipeline and heroes are not impacted and actually increase. So for 332 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.519 these larger sales organizations it's much more difficult because now they have a hundred strs 333 00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.680 that they're like hey, some of our strs, we don't know how you 334 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:04.400 all are going to eat exactly you said. I don't know, I won't 335 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.640 be able to eat. And so it's much easier for earlier on organizations with 336 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.000 immature sales teams, or it's probably not the right word, with smaller sales 337 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:17.359 teams, to shift to this model. For teams that have larger sales organizations, 338 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.240 ALWOULD SUGGEST A it's gonna be a while, it's gonna take a long 339 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:26.799 time, but still run your lead generation activities, find the the generation programs 340 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.000 that have the lowers, lowest cost per lead to still have that running. 341 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.079 So you can have that lead volume but then shift a good percentage of your 342 00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:41.799 efforts to create man capture demand motion. So you're kind of easing easing the 343 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:48.359 new marketing approach. And Yeah, I only was in sales miles for like 344 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:55.319 seven or eight months, but that imagining how now, with the create demand, 345 00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:57.559 captured demand, all that conversation and being so much more in tune with 346 00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:03.319 it than I was at that point. I imagine our team and how it 347 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.279 would have impact us, because we were pretty early on. We didn't have 348 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.519 too many we didn't have the problem of too many sales people. We had 349 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:14.920 a problem not educating the market and it would have been a game changer for 350 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.839 us to have people that were creating content that they were putting in front of 351 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:23.240 the right types of people. And then, as someone who often was like 352 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.200 calling in and just trying to book the Demo, I was talking to people 353 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:33.279 that were highly like they were not informed and they were super busy and they 354 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.920 did like wrong place, wrong time, wrong part of the pipe, and 355 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:38.960 I'm just trying to get them to the demo as fast as possible. So 356 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:41.599 now seeing all of this side of things, man, it has been like 357 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.000 just a light bulb went off in my head and so I hope that's happening 358 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.799 for listeners, whether you're on sales or marketing side. But it's uh, 359 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.920 it's amazing. Go, go up one more tier. Yeah, I'M gonna 360 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.839 go one more tier. I just I just wanna make a note. One 361 00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.839 more thing. Okay, this this shift, and this this is kind of 362 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.720 if this is based off something you just said, which I find is really 363 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:08.119 interesting. There's a phenomenon called str or b Dr Burnout. That's typically because 364 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.480 number one sales just a hustle, which that is where its sales as a 365 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:17.079 hustle, but a lot of these stairs and BDR is because the marketing teams 366 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:22.480 are finding a legion model. You're calling people or emailing people and having to 367 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.720 contact them five to ten times and you're met typically with resistance and sometimes anger. 368 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.880 Hey, stop calling me, you've called me five times, and I 369 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:37.680 think that is a big contributor to SDR burnout. Alternatively, if you you 370 00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.599 make the shift to this new marketing approach, imagine if you're an str and, 371 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.599 seven times out of ten you pick up the phone or email someone, 372 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:53.039 they're either excited because you're a brand that everyone loves. I was talking to 373 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:56.480 Carl it refined labs. You work for help spot, and you said it 374 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.960 was great being on sales there because people just wanted to react with an individual 375 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:06.079 hubspot Um. So that's one benefit. You're met with enthusiasm because people love 376 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.960 your your brand, and then number two, you're at with people that actually 377 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:14.559 want to purchase your product. They're excited to purchase your product, and so 378 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.960 I think a kind of a side benefit of this whole new marketing approach that 379 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:25.640 only is a positive impact on business, but always str is get relax a 380 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.880 little bit and enjoy their work environment and actually enjoy the role in the position. 381 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.319 I gotta say one follow up thing there, because I think what's interesting 382 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.359 about that is when you think about companies scale, oftentimes they don't, they 383 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.200 couldn't implement what we're talking about because they don't have anyone that's in any sort 384 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.000 of marketing function early enough. So your SDR team, your sales team, 385 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.279 is like potentially growing faster than what's happening on the marketing side, which I 386 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.359 get it in the old form, but if you have no one sitting in 387 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.519 those seats that's able to properly educate the market and you have an a sales 388 00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:03.839 team that just needs to sell but they haven't educated properly, you're gonna have 389 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:10.440 this really weird lack of balance that's very common in early stage SAS companies that 390 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:15.440 don't have a marketing department yet, and that's that's where there's I know not 391 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.920 everyone is in that stage, so this part of the conversation might not be 392 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.279 applicable to you, but those that are you're feeling that, I'm sure, 393 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:23.920 because your sales team is just doing the cold calls, just doing the emails 394 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.039 and they're not they're hitting the ceiling of lack of education in the market. 395 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.440 That happens on the marketing side. If you could get SDR that has this 396 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.039 mindset and could could function and like a marketer but also sales role. That's 397 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.839 the dream. That is so all SID man. That is too good. 398 00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:45.920 All right, let's let's keep this thing moving, man. I don't want 399 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.279 to I don't want to stick on it forever, but let's let's go the 400 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.480 next year. This is this is great. So now we've covered our marketing 401 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:55.519 KPI is, which our first tier or second tier, which was our early 402 00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:00.440 indicators, and now we're going through this third tier, which is channel level 403 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.359 KPIS. And so each channel, depending on the nature of the channel, 404 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:11.880 is going to have different kpis because humans use them differently. Email is different 405 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:18.079 than Linkedin, for example, and so by channel it creates quantitative and qualitative 406 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:25.119 Kpis for those channels that show me if my performance is improving in the channel 407 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.039 or maybe what's working and what's not working. And so, using linked in 408 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.799 organic for example, maybe the KPIS that I set our views to a post 409 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:41.599 and let's get three metrics used to our posts, engagement rate and then follower 410 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.359 volume. Say those are are three quantitative metrics for Linkedin. We want those 411 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.359 to increase. Over time, but we can also gain daily or weekly insights 412 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.119 from those metrics. And then, on the qualitative side, depending on the 413 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:57.240 nature of the platform, what what the buyers or customers are actually saying? 414 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.240 And so a lot of times it's what are they commenting? Are They D 415 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.720 M in you? What are they D M and you for, if we're 416 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.640 continuing with this lengthen example, and so the kidenceaid I like to look at 417 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.160 this is a daily, depending on your your position, or weekly level as 418 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:17.839 a team, because it shows at a very micro level what's working what's not 419 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.839 working, both from from the numbers but also the feedback from your market, 420 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:29.079 and it spurs obviously future creation for talking about content in this context, by 421 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.839 marrying those two types of metrics together, those two types of data, you 422 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.440 can understand what your market is interested in and then it continues to improve in 423 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:42.319 performance because you're delivering to the market what they want to talk about. We're 424 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.440 we're like sover, like a d m or something like that. When it's 425 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.799 a social share, like what our Best Practices to actually collect that? Like 426 00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:55.039 I know for us we have slack. That's always just we have a winds 427 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:56.920 channel. So when we see something come through hubspot. That's where it lives. 428 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160 We've talked about that on here before, our marketing channel. If we 429 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.000 see any great mentions or you know, one of us was on a different 430 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.079 podcast and there's great, good comments. Is there a better way that we're 431 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.079 missing or is that? Is that a good start? Yeah, I don't. 432 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:15.319 I don't think you necessarily have to collect the qualitative data. I think 433 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.079 copying and pasting every D M and every comment and through spreadsheet, sure your 434 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:24.559 boss, would be a complete waste of time, but it's it's this responsibility 435 00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:30.200 is typically on the manager, and it's too. What I like to do, 436 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:34.720 the manager of the platform. I mean, is to take screenshots of 437 00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:39.839 the actual conversations and show that to either leadership or the lead of marketing, 438 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:45.160 marketing lead, to show, Hey, this is uh, some pushback we 439 00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.880 got on this topic, for this is a question we got. Or here's 440 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.079 a screen shot of hundred people. You can hit the command minus, minus 441 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:59.039 zoom out on your back through's screenshot of a hundred people that are perfectly that 442 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.480 are are perfect the CP they're saying. This is amazing. This helped me 443 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:07.759 so much, this provided so much value in my professional life and so it's 444 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:12.200 uh, yeah, it's not not collecting that data. Are Storing it in 445 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:15.279 a place, but collecting that data in terms of screenshots, adding them to 446 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:22.920 a presentation and communicating with the marketing lead what signals that qualitative data is providing. 447 00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:27.160 Did you say there was a qualitative and quantitative side to this part, 448 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.519 or just the qualitative? The quantitative are the channel specific metrics, using the 449 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:40.279 Lenkedin example, follower volume page leaks views of the posts. Yea Perfect man. 450 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:45.480 This is so helpful and I think now people with a picture, they're 451 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.160 going like, okay, I understand, I'm not going to just like go 452 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:52.079 and implement this tomorrow, which is why we advocated at the front end like 453 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:58.079 hey, start with the two different DASHBOARDS, start getting this stuff rolling. 454 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.440 Hero is going to take along. If you have nothing like that type of 455 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.759 metric. Hero is probably the most would you say that's the most complex part 456 00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:08.360 of this? Getting people centered around that? Yeah, getting them centered around 457 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:14.360 this new measurement framework, and then just the change from marketing being measured on 458 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:19.280 leads and M quels to being accountable for revenue and why. That is important 459 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.440 for sure. Okay, well, anything, as we start to wrap up 460 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:27.119 this episode, miles that you're going. Okay, just be sure as you 461 00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.760 move into implementing that you watch out for this or stay checked in on this, 462 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:36.440 like last little warnings before we start to wrap. Yeah, so that's 463 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.280 piece of advice I always like give. Is the data wins. And so, 464 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:46.039 especially transitioning from this marketing being measured on M quels now marketing being attributed 465 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:52.440 to revenue. Actually show the conversion rates to an Mquele, actually from m 466 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.440 cul to customer and how dismal that is, the extremely high customer acquisition costs 467 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:02.360 and the long sales cycles, and then help leadership along with that journey, 468 00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.000 continue to show them that those metrics that hey, sales cycle is is dwindling 469 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.840 for now closing someone in forty days instead of ninety, our customer acquisition costs 470 00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:19.679 are are have reduced by so constantly providing data and telling that story. That's 471 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:23.440 probably the most common mistake I see when marketing teams make this transition is that 472 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:29.599 they don't use data to help back the story. They talking hypotheticals. This 473 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:31.880 is going to work, this will work um and I don't help guide that 474 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:36.880 journey off the data. So yeah, but other than that, I mean 475 00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.960 if you can do that, you're you're going to have a pretty successful transition 476 00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:45.880 from leads to revenue. Fantastic. Well, I appreciate you spending time here 477 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.280 with us and breaking this down. For people that want to stay connected to 478 00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:52.360 you, what's the best way for them to do that, and then talk 479 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.880 a little bit about your new Gig at observe a I. We'd love to 480 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.320 hear a little bit about what you are up to there as well. Yeah, 481 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.119 absolutely. You can find me on Linkedin, miles madden. I'm on 482 00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.960 Linkedin every day. Feel free to send me a dam and I took respond 483 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.320 pretty quickly, within a day or two, so I've got it's it's an 484 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:14.599 open door. I'm always free to talk. As far as AB survey, 485 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:19.440 I physician. There's in your demand generation manager. So, simply put, 486 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.519 helping these guys grow and and hopefully become a public company. I won't go 487 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:28.039 into depth there, but yeah, sisting with marketing leadership and in terms of 488 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:32.559 execution and strategy. Fantastic. Well, this has been a really insightful conversation 489 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.239 and we're always trying to do that here on B two B growth. We 490 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:40.800 want to fuel new ways of thinking and we want to help you and your 491 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.599 marketing team continue to win. So if you haven't followed the podcast yet, 492 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.960 you can do that so you never miss an episode. You can talk to 493 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.719 me over on Linkedin as well. Would love to hear from you and talk 494 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:55.440 about marketing, business life and keep doing work that matters. Will be back 495 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.400 real soon with another episode. Miles, thanks so much for being your mouth. 496 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.840 If you enjoy today's show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. And 497 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:19.280 if you really enjoyed today's show, take a second to rate and review the 498 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.400 podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really 499 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:27.280 really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting it to a friend who 500 00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.440 would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.