How to Structure a Modern Marketing Team, with Gaetano DiNardi

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.440 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth. I'm 2 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:21.480 here with Guysano Danardi. He's the VP of growth over at Aura, and 3 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.800 welcome into the show, Guy Ton O. Great to have you with us. 4 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.079 Yeah, man, thanks for having me. I love be to be 5 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:32.600 growth. You guys have a great show. Think I've done it a couple 6 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:38.399 times now and man, it's always it's always cool to come back and talk 7 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.159 shop about marketing. So thanks, thanks for having me back to appreciate it. 8 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:46.119 Was Jealous Because I wasn't the host. I got to talk to you, 9 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.560 so I had to get you back so that I could say that I 10 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:51.119 also had a conversation with you now. I'm just kidding, but here we 11 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:56.560 go. Okay, so I know one one interesting piece of your journey is 12 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.240 your back in DTC land. You're not in be tob anymore. Give us 13 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:06.000 the genesis of that move and in some of what you're seeing now that you've 14 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.400 left be to be, because you have a room full of B tob marketers 15 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:14.040 intrigued right now. Hah Yeah, you know. Long Story Short is that 16 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.079 I had a really good run in BTB. I bounced around from various kinds 17 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:25.200 of B tob software companies selling mostly like commoditize products, to be honest with 18 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:30.799 you. So I crn voice over Ip. I had long runs at companies 19 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.680 who sell those products. And you know, the interesting thing about direct to 20 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:42.079 consumer is that because in be tob, if you're selling like a low cost 21 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:47.599 product like crm or void, that's like kind of commoditized. It's a high 22 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:53.040 volume transactional model in sales. So it's kind of similar to direct to consumer, 23 00:01:53.079 --> 00:02:00.159 because direct to consumer is also high volume, transactional motion, low cost 24 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:06.840 product. So some things apply in principle and other things don't. We can 25 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:13.000 talk about that. But the reason why I joined the BBC Company is because 26 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:20.000 I kind of just like ran my course at, you know, various bedb 27 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.479 companies and, yeah, I was ready to make a transition into something else. 28 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:29.639 And while that transitional period was happening, I actually got hacked. Somebody 29 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:34.560 stole my identity. Yeah, they have my phone. I was locked out 30 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:40.120 of my apple account, my Gmail Account, I locked out of everything and 31 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:45.599 I and I was in a foreign country while happened. So this was a 32 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:52.560 horrific or deal. And the outcome is that I was interviewing with a company 33 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:59.520 that actually provides online safety, Internet security protection, identiate that protection services and 34 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:02.560 I'm like, AH, this is like really timely because this happened to me 35 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:07.080 and now I can feel like the consumer, I can feel like the end 36 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.000 user. I know the emotions, I know actually what it feels like to 37 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.560 be scammed. Yep, it sucks. So the stars kind of aligned and, 38 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:22.199 you know, six months in I've been in BBC marketing. You know, 39 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:27.240 no sales unit, no outbound BEB sales, nothing like that. So 40 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.199 it feels really good and I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing and I 41 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:35.360 probably won't go back to be to be to be honest with you. Well, 42 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.080 I like your voice as one that has the experience and be tob and 43 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:43.879 can from time to time we do this right on BB growth. I'll have 44 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.599 somebody outside of our the waters we swim in, come chat with us. 45 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.560 Maybe they used to be in the be tob space and it just helps because 46 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.560 it feels like a breath of fresh air in certain ways and just that mindset 47 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.120 shift can be really wonderful. The genesis of inviting you back of the show 48 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.800 was that I saw a post that you had over on linkedin where you kind 49 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:11.800 of were maybe like blue sky, if you were captain to your own ship, 50 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.199 what you would do as far as a modern marketing team goes, and 51 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.160 we're going to discuss that over the next few minutes here. What was your 52 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:23.439 thinking on even this post? Like, have you just been mowling over how 53 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.800 to structure a marketing team or what's got you thinking in this this new direction? 54 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.800 Yeah, I think like the evolution to be to see marketing has definitely 55 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:38.879 like caused a lot of wheels to spin in my brain and, you know, 56 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:46.399 it also caused me to like reflect on what are the ways that like 57 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:53.600 an upcoming company would would fight back against powerful legacy brands like that. And 58 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.439 you know you have this all over the place, but like in my particular 59 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:03.920 world, like I have to fight against Norton, lifelock, macafee a vast 60 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.120 you know, these are like tools that like when you buy a PC or 61 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.399 kind of just like built in. HMM, there, pop up window just 62 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.360 shows up. Yeah, pop up window nails you. Like you ever try 63 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:18.079 to uninstall macafee and see how hard is. Like it's, you know, 64 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:24.000 so so like when you think about like all these things, you know you 65 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:30.240 want to optimize the way that you kind of compartmentalize your you know, your 66 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.040 units, your your marketing units, your man power, right, your man 67 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:39.279 and woman power. So, like I kind of broke this down into five 68 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:46.720 distinct categories. Bottom of funnel, demand capturers, demand creators that focus on 69 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.199 mid to top of the funnel. So that's a key distinction, is that 70 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:54.639 you're separating bottom of the funnel apart from all the other things. Yeah, 71 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.279 and you're measuring them differently as well, which we'll talk about. Then I 72 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:02.959 would have the creative unit, which is web management, designers, illustrators, 73 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:10.439 developers, web project managers, and they're the support function that basically fulfills the 74 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:15.800 needs of demand creators and demand captures. Then you have like ops, enablement 75 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.120 and am ABM, which is kind of a bit of a separate unit, 76 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:24.160 and then customer marketing as well, and opposit enablement and ABM. Really is 77 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:28.199 like a lot of this. We have a ton of conversations that kind of 78 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:30.759 focus there, because that's such a beat to be heavy play. But I 79 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.920 think these five are spot on. We tell me, and I maybe this 80 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.199 isn't the right place to start, but I'm going to start there anyway because 81 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.519 I get to ask whatever questions I want. What makes the Creative Union unit 82 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.279 and like Web Management, that third one, like a distinct team that's not 83 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:49.680 just embedded in in one, in two, not in the demand creators in 84 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:56.279 the bottom of funnels, demand capturers. Yeah, because the reason why is 85 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:03.000 because the kinds of things that demand captures need are like often the kinds of 86 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:10.639 things that demand creators need. So you all need landing pages, you're going 87 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:16.120 to need video content, you're going to need illustration and creative assets, you're 88 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.879 going to need add creative for social you know, the list kind of just 89 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:27.519 goes on and on, right, and the reality is that you're better off 90 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.839 having design and Dev kind of I hate to use this phrase, but lock 91 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:38.000 step, you know, a classic grape buzz word, shows where it's right. 92 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:43.720 But like you're better off having the creative unit and Development Working together as 93 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:48.600 one combined team, because very often these units are working in tandem anyway, 94 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:53.879 and a lot of things that are dependencies were dependent. So, like for 95 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:59.319 a landing page, you know, unless you're using like a really quick hack 96 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.959 tool, like an instant page, where you don't really need anything, you 97 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.160 just go. But for like big feature pages, I'm talking about like corner 98 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.920 stone piece of your website. You definitely don't want to be using instant page 99 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:13.839 or something like that. Instant page is better for like, you know, 100 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.279 just quick lead form page or something like that splash page, but like for 101 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:26.800 a core pillar business page, copy design and development kind of need to be 102 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:33.559 working together in harmony there. So I prefer that you have creative and development 103 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:39.639 working together to fulfill all the types of like business needs that the demand creators 104 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:46.360 and demand captures have, because the the deliverables are similar. The difference is 105 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:52.840 the content, the mindset, the way you're going about distributing and delivering those 106 00:08:52.840 --> 00:09:00.080 content experiences across those different channels. So that is why I like create and 107 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.559 development kind of together, and one family makes a lot of sense. Okay, 108 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.600 so kind of going back to maybe where I should have started. I 109 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:13.639 just went right for one of the questions I had based on this post. 110 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:20.159 But when I'm looking at demand creator demand capture, are you saying if you 111 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.960 were we dropped you and you were like a solo marketer and you're hiring out 112 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:26.960 a team, that this would be the order even that you would build your 113 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.240 team out in? Or is it just this is a way of thinking of 114 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.159 the five distinct groups and like where would you start, essentially, if you 115 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.559 were building a team from scratch? Yeah, when I came out with this 116 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.399 post, I was just thinking about the five distinct groups, but I didn't 117 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:48.840 necessarily think about the order of operation in which I would try to hire them. 118 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.559 You know that that one is kind of like open to interpretation. I 119 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:58.000 don't know for sure if there's any like hard and fast rule on like, 120 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.759 you know, should you? Because every startup like just you know, the 121 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:07.399 needs evolved and there's a lot of different circumstances and I think like who you 122 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:13.799 decide to hire should be kind of dependent on a lot of things that are 123 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:18.080 like happening in the business and the business model overall. And I think like 124 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:24.759 it all should start with like what is your how do you go to market 125 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.480 as a company, and how do you sell your product? So, like, 126 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:35.759 if you're product up is, let's say, very very expensive and very 127 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:43.639 long sales cycles and and you know, complex enterprise selling, I would probably 128 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.759 not start with like a PPC marketer. Yeah, exactly, situational. Yep, 129 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.679 I under yeah, situational. You know, like you gotta put the 130 00:10:54.919 --> 00:11:00.000 Lens, the Business Lens, on when you're like starting to think about how 131 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.279 would you build this from scratch? You know, some I've even seen some 132 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.960 startups just like hire one junior marketer to just go nuts like that. I 133 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.320 think that's a bad choice, but it happens a lot. Like some startup 134 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.080 founder will be like, Hey, we need marketing, let's hire some junior 135 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.159 person to do it all. Can afford something crazy. You got to start 136 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.080 somewhere higher, randomwhere higher just a junior marketer to just like do a random 137 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.320 marketing activities, like create content, run social do a Webinar, you know, 138 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.559 just get something happening. That's definitely not the way I would approach it, 139 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:39.480 but I think like to zoom out, I would say starting to build 140 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.240 a team of marketing team from scratch should depend on the business model and how 141 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.879 you saw your brother. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so the the 142 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.600 thing that's jumps out to me the most from this is just the idea of 143 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:58.519 having, if we even just stick with those first two creators and captures different 144 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:03.799 things that they're measured on ultimately, like that is so worth advocating for instead 145 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:09.519 of lumping all this stuff together, because if you start that's where we it 146 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.440 gets dangerous. Right. It's like that. Everybody's measured on the exact same 147 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:20.080 metrics and even though they're trying to perform different things. So give me the 148 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:26.879 idea of like how you would measure differently because of this model and how you 149 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.759 would think about measuring differently. Yeah, so, like you know, the 150 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:39.039 demand capture is like very bottom of funnel. So that is very close to 151 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:48.320 like sales. And you measure things like conversion rate, optimization, Google, 152 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:56.720 PPC, even affiliates, right, like that's all very like finance driven stuff. 153 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.799 So it's your it's the common like how much are we spending to get 154 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:05.480 a customer? What is the like costpra acquisition, like, what is the 155 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:11.799 value of those transactions, like revenue per user, all that stuff, like 156 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.559 just it's pure sales. All that stuff is about sales. You can even 157 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:24.240 make the argument that bottom of funnel SEO should be about transactions and and revenue 158 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:30.799 and so forth. where I think it gets different is how do you measure 159 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:33.919 the demand creators? Right? How do you how do you measure the people 160 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:39.440 that are telling the brand story through the website and through social? How are 161 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.720 you measuring product marketing? How do you measure content marketing? That's not aimed 162 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:50.480 at driving leads. How do you how do you measure the effectiveness of video? 163 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.480 Do you think that's exactly why we like? It's and I'm just going 164 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.720 to speak from B tob for a second, but like that's kind of why 165 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.200 we over index on one and then we don't really go about investing as much 166 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.759 into being demand creators, because in be to be, like, I think 167 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.480 that's why some of our stuff is boring or you get some of those like 168 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.639 you know, we say the same things about be to be marketing over and 169 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.279 over again, but it's because you can't measure. It is easily and be 170 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.679 to be is obsessed with measurement. So we haven't spent the time to think 171 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.039 about how to measure differently. So we just over index for one while. 172 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:31.399 said. Well said, and as you made that point I was actually even 173 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.960 thinking, like how would how do you incentivize? Well, let's zoom now. 174 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:39.960 Actually even fuck before we talk about incentivizing marketers to, you know, 175 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.799 get engagement, because, as we know, marketers are like incentivized mostly on 176 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.399 sales, like sign ups, like how much? How many sign ups do 177 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:50.759 we get? How many free trial starts to we get? You know, 178 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.399 all that stuff. The bigger question actually is, this is maybe the most 179 00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:01.399 important question of this whole thing, which is if you were are to remove 180 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:11.799 sign ups as a measurement, remove sign ups or any revenue focused like KPI, 181 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:18.799 how would you know if something is good? How would you know if 182 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:24.279 a landing page is good? How would you know who the video is good? 183 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:28.440 How would you know if a blog article is good? How would you 184 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.320 know if a Webinar was good? How would you know if anything is good? 185 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.320 Emails are good, how would how do you know if they're good? 186 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.039 HMM, if there's take revenue out hot what do you look at? How 187 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:45.600 do you know if it's good? I would be looking at resonance and shares 188 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.440 and things like that, but in not just vanity metrics, right, but 189 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.399 like it's almost becomes word of mouth measurement, but word of mouth in this 190 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.440 sense of like yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but where 191 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.759 were you going with that? That's where my brain immediately were. Yeah, 192 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:02.720 yeah, now you're on, you're onto something, and I know maybe I'll 193 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:07.240 open it up a little bit. But like, the thing is a lot 194 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.480 of people in marketing are always asking what's the best performing landing pages or what? 195 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:18.360 What content is that this performing the best? What's working and what's not? 196 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.559 which videos are working? What's you know what's performing? You hear that 197 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.840 all the time. which even which ads are doing the best? And you 198 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:32.200 know, if you were to strip like revenue or some sign up related KPI 199 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.879 from that, you would stump marketers, I would. You would stump ninety 200 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:38.320 plus percent of them when you ask, how do you know if this is 201 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.399 good? How do you know? How do you tell if it's good? 202 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.000 You can't just look at it and and you know, with your own opinions 203 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.960 say yeah, this is good because it's long, or yeah, this is 204 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.399 good because it looks nice, or yeah, as a narrative, so it's 205 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.840 good, you know. So that actually the way to know if something is 206 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.639 good is to look at the engagement factors, like you were alluding to the 207 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:07.039 right and every kind of different channel and content type has signals that will let 208 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.640 you know if something is good. Now, the way to know if something 209 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.079 is good is not just numbers based, but, and this is what's, 210 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.440 I think, very, very missing from B tob is the qualitative component, 211 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:26.519 which means like putting this in front of the eyeballs of potential customer, do 212 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.160 a Focus Group of research and find out what do they think about this? 213 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:34.519 That is a separate that's a separate thing. But just looking at the numbers 214 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.000 for blogs, you would want to look at the average time on page. 215 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.160 You would want to look at scroll depth, you would want to look at 216 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:52.359 do they click through two more pages during the website session or do they just 217 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.440 come and bounce? It's RESP that comes back to that resonance piece, right, 218 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.240 like those are all signs that it's resonating with the person that's a viewing. 219 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.279 It signs that it's resonating. Yes, the other thing is that, 220 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.680 like if you have a seven minute time on page but a ninety five percent 221 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:14.279 bounce rate, that's actually good. That means they really consume that. So 222 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:22.839 the question really becomes how do you get them to consume and then how do 223 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:29.039 you get them to come back? Because buying a product is, you know, 224 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:36.920 it's a multi step mays full of different timing things and and components and 225 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:42.079 touch points and stuff like that. So the idea is that it requires more 226 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:48.799 of a surround sound playbook in order to get people to buy in the long 227 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:53.720 run. And so, anyway, the final point on the measurement is that 228 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:57.720 you look at demand creators with engagement, you know, for video, you 229 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.680 look at things like washtime, drop off rates, subscriber counts through Youtube, 230 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.039 right, like you need to just figure out what that's going to be. 231 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.960 But the whole point is that you can't measure the awareness like sales, because 232 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.200 if it was the opposite and you're measuring sales like awareness, it be a 233 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.000 mess. Right. So you just you cannot complete these two areas, and 234 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:27.640 this is a part of, I think, by marketing that is really in 235 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:33.599 need of over all, fantastic. There's so much there that we could go 236 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.200 into even just in the first two but I think that leaves people with quite 237 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.200 a bit to think about, because if I was challenging our be to be 238 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:45.440 marketing audience to really focus in on one of these groups, I would be 239 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:51.400 challenging them to focus on demand creators and how that is accurately thought about measured. 240 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:56.039 The conversations that you're having there like making separating that from how you think 241 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:03.000 about demand capture would start to change the way your team even talks. So 242 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.920 to me that that becomes a big deal. You're talking to a room full 243 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.519 of be tob marketers right now. So when you if you were to leave 244 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.160 us with a challenge of some kind coming out of these this new way of 245 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.680 thinking about a marketing team, these five distinct kind of pockets, or however 246 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.000 you would think of this, like any challenge, you would leave us with 247 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.119 things to really be focused on. I like to say, like, is 248 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.359 it a mindset shift that you would want to give us, that we could 249 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:36.680 walk back into our normal jobs and maybe see things slightly differently? Yeah, 250 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.720 man, I think it is that mindset shift. You know, I would 251 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:45.640 start thinking about these things. The first thing I would start thinking about is, 252 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:52.519 like I would question what category am I in, and am and right 253 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.839 now, like if I'm a demand creator or a demand capture where do I 254 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.400 fit? Where do I belong? Yeah, you know, and really and 255 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.680 if I am, if my strengths as a marketer, it truly is not 256 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:12.640 demand capture. But I'm being measured by demand capturing KPI's and I'm being asked 257 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:18.599 to demand capturing things, but there's a misalignment to my strengths as a marketer. 258 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.559 There's a misalignment to the channel ownership that I have. You know, 259 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.839 I would I would start there. I would I would question your own belonging 260 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:33.400 and activities and what are you doing and doesn't make sense. I would start 261 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.519 there, and then, if it doesn't make sense, you need to like 262 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.720 speak up and say, like something's just it, something feels off here. 263 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.119 I've been going with the flow. I've been trying to be a team player. 264 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.200 You know, I don't want to raise the alarms or you know whatever, 265 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.720 but you need to question that and you need to if it's not right, 266 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:55.839 you need to speak up and like make a change somehow. I would 267 00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.960 say that if you are, let's say, properly bucketed, let's say you're 268 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.960 a demand capture and you are properly bucketed into the activities and things that you're 269 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:12.079 doing and the way you're being measured as appropriate and so forth, I would 270 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:19.119 start to and this is assuming your in Bub I would get more, I 271 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:25.160 would get into the mind, deeper mindset of efficiency. So, like I 272 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:29.039 would want to really start knowing, like I would make it. I would 273 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.599 be annoying about this because I've been in so many companies where this wasn't the 274 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.559 case, but I'd want to know how are the meetings going? I wouldn't 275 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.559 just look at like leads from this source are creating this much pipeline for this 276 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.960 much revenue or whatever. I would actually want to know from the a's themselves, 277 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.079 you know, the leads and the and the meetings. Like, first 278 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:53.960 of all, are these leads from these sources actually turning into meetings? Are 279 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.680 there and the meetings that you're having? What are the outcomes of those meetings? 280 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.519 I think that is just so, so lost and be to be I've 281 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.519 been in so many situations where it's just like marketing will deliver all these leads 282 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.400 from these sources and then you look at like all right, there's no pipeline, 283 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:17.000 there's no proposals being sent, whatever the case may be. But there's 284 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.640 a missing link there, and the missing link goes back to like more qualitative 285 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:26.160 assessment, which is getting the insights from the eight he's themselves. Are these 286 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.759 meetings going good or bad? Are People showing up for these meetings? And 287 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:36.880 then you need to like, over time see, okay, these leads from 288 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:42.720 maybe webinars have a very negative impact on our revenue machine because these people don't 289 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.079 want to be called, they don't want to talk to us, no one's 290 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.640 attending meetings. And then we need to decide should we keep doing this? 291 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.279 Should we change our approach? Should we measure it differently? Should we talk 292 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.839 it all up to brand and not expect a sales row I from this thing? 293 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:03.440 So, like, those are the areas I would I would really examine 294 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.799 after hearing her conversation like this. For sure, I think if you're a 295 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:14.680 team leader listening to this clearly, like you sit in a position where you 296 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:21.119 can define these buckets and that helps your marketing team know what they what results 297 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.160 they should be driving, what they should be paying attention to. The clear 298 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.640 picture you can paint, the better your marketing team will be, the more 299 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:33.599 effective they can be because they're not all trying to judge themselves on being demand 300 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:38.839 capturers, and then that automatically will help you elevate your team as a whole. 301 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.599 I absolutely love this conversation. I loved your Linkedin Post. You said 302 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.960 it succinctly. You still set it in a lengthy way where people could like 303 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.039 there was a meat there, but you said it's accinctly enough that I think 304 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.480 people should go interact with it. You can. Your comments went off on 305 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:57.000 this post. People had some opinions, but you are in the comments reacting 306 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.160 and I loved reading through that as much as I loved reading through the Post. 307 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.759 Okay, tell people how they can stay connected with you. Obviously, 308 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.400 Linkedin is a great way to do that, and then tell us a little 309 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.240 bit. We're your working for a security company now. It's just wildly different. 310 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.960 But yeah, what's the best way to connect? Yeah, I mean 311 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.599 just go my website, official guys on oncom. You know, you can 312 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:23.079 find everything you need there and you know, stay safe about that, guys. 313 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:30.519 Cyber crime is truly rising unprecedented rates. I think, like obvious, 314 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.480 leave like a little just tip out there for like what I've been learning that 315 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.839 may help you personally, which is like, if you're one of those people 316 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:45.240 that is guilty of re using the same passwords, recycling passwords, using easily 317 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:52.839 guessable passwords, stop doing that, because those are going to all get hacked 318 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.680 eventually through root course or through data breaches. So you should go and change 319 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:06.000 all that immediately, and you should enable to factor authentication with an authenticator APP. 320 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:11.079 Try not to use SMS if you can avoid it, because there's also 321 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:15.119 something called Sim swapping where, yeah, I'm gonna get a little crazy, 322 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.759 you know, but there is something called Sim swapping where thieves can call your 323 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:26.039 phone company, impersonate you and actually deactivate your some card, get a new 324 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:32.960 one and divert all your phone communications to their phone device, which means you 325 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.720 are capital f screwed. So I would I would leave some caution out there 326 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.240 to the listeners and personal life tip is just to you know, clean up 327 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.400 your digital hygiene if you've been ignoring it for too long. So, HMM. 328 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.799 Well, thanks for spending some time with us on BB growth and drop 329 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.839 in this knowledge and marketing and on being safe out there. So we need 330 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:02.039 it. Man, come back again and see us drop some more wisdom down 331 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:14.000 the road and appreciate your time. Hi, Benjie. Thanks. Man. 332 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.960 If you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness, and 333 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.400 if you really enjoyed today show, take a second to rate and review the 334 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.680 podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really 335 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.440 really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting it to a friend who 336 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.960 would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.