Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth.
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Welcome in everybody. James and Dan
are here with me and we like to
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think of ourselves as your Nerdy B
Two b marketing friends here to break down
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some original research for you today.
So, if you're new to this,
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we asked a hundred B two B
marketing leaders fifteen questions and we have been
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breaking down the findings on these original
research episodes. Last week I actually went
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back through and I tagged all of
our original research episodes so they're easier to
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find in the feed. You can
scroll back through, you can check those
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out. Today we want to talk
through the tech stack and tech can be
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one of those things. It will
skyrocket your productivity, it will help you
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communicate more effectively with clients, it
can automate systems, all that sort of
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stuff, but it can also give
you a headache and it can be a
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pain to figure out how to implement
learning new tools. And so we asked
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a hundred of these marketing leaders what
technology are you looking to add to your
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tech stack? And we're gonna talk
about that today. And I like this
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question because it showed some areas of
focus, like desired growth and I think
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it's gonna give us some insights,
give you some insights to walk away with,
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and we'll break that down over the
next few minutes. James, I'M
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gonna throw it to you first here, because sweet fish has seen a bunch
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of growth over the last few years. So there's obviously key tech editions that
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we've had to add. As you
think of what we've implemented for our team
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and our tech stack, anything that
instantly boosted our productivity that sticks out to
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you that's been crucial to our work? Yeah, so two tools come to
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mind. One I think about our
transition away from Treloh into a sauna.
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It just gave us a much cleaner
way to actually action items that we were
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talking about in team meetings and put
dates on them, and it was organized
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in such a way where I noticed
almost instant our productivity going up and we
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started using a Sanna as opposed to
at least the way we were using cello.
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There's probably some trailo masters out there
that have figured out how to manipulate
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Trailo to make it work for them, but for us, you know,
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we're managing about a hundred different clients. Got A thirty five person team and
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I felt like we had just grown
past what trailo could do for us,
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and so that move over to a
sauna was incredibly helpful and also helped from
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a production workflow. So just the
episodes that were producing. Again, a
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hundred different shows that we're producing,
ten different producers, to streamline the process
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of how an episode gets produced,
just found that Assana was way better.
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And then on the marketing front,
going really going all in with Hubspot,
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I think helped us a ton.
We're managing all of our de like how
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our deals flow through our pipeline.
Their dashboards are, I think, pretty
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incredible. So I've gotten a lot
of value out of those two tools.
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A Sanna on Hubspot. So,
Dan, on the marketing front of side
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of things. I Know James has
been here since the beginning, but you,
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when you came on the team,
you're more focused on marketing. Is
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there anything we've added to our tech
deck in your time here that you're like,
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oh, this was super crucial for
us. Dude, when I started
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we were using hubspot and then I
took us away from hubspot and then we
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went back to hubspot. So what
I realized is that we really needed hubspot,
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the hubs. Hubspot does the Best
B two B. It's just that
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I was still new to be to
be and I didn't realize how freaking good
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hubspot it was dealing with the B
Two b environment than than it was or
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than I had previously come known from
B to c on the hubspot was just
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overpriced and what it could do,
and then I realized, oh no,
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there's way more under the hood and
a B Two b situation that makes hubspot
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totally worth it. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting when we were looking at
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the findings what people said. So
I'll just going to some of the results
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from asking this question. Marketing Automation
tools is definitely the most popular answer.
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That was stated over and over again
by these marketing leaders. And then other
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answers, if you're just bucketing them, which I like doing that to try
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to give us themes, attribution,
crm and then video, which we were
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talking before we hit record on this, and video. You might not immediately
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go tech stack when you think of
video, but instead you're thinking of like
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your content creation suite and that video
is clearly a huge part of that in
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today's, you know, marketing landscape. So you it does make sense it
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just when I first saw that as
the results, like Oh, that's interesting.
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So I'm I might be the only
one, but I did need some
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clarity around the difference between marketing automation
tools and a CRM so I'm like preparing
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for this and actually just like googled
I came across the Business News daily.
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They had this as the differentiator.
They say customer relationship management. So crm
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software and marketing automation software serve different
purposes. The main difference between crm software
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and marketing automation software is that the
CRM software is used primarily for sales purposes
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and marketing automation is used sleep for
marketing. So there's some like cross over
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there, especially when you depending on
the type of team, you structure,
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you sit in, you might be
using very similar tools. But that's the
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differentiator. Dan, I thought it
would be good for us to talk through
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first why marketing automation is so important
and then maybe take us through some of
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the top marketing automation tools. Could
we do that? Absolutely. Marketing Automation
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is important because it allows you to
extend all the things that you want to
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do in the sequence that you would
actually would want them want to do it
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in and I became very aware of
my need for this thing even before it
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was even called marketing automation. I
was twenty four and somebody had finally given
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this kid a break and let me
take over a brand that nobody cared about.
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It was like the JV girls volleyball
team, like nobody cared about it.
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No one gave it time or resources, and they're like here, Dan,
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you could do something with this brand. I was like yes, I'm
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going to freaking crush it. and
Um, as a team of one,
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it was a struggle. I had
email to send, some social posts like
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two thousand ten, like facebook pages
were becoming a thing. I was sending
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out direct mail. People were coming
to the website and asking for information.
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I just didn't have a way to
really organize at all and even follow up
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with the people that were like begging
for more information. Then I discovered marketing
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animation, and it's one of many
discoveries I had that year, but one
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of the big pieces was how to
just create a simple sequence so that every
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time someone went to the website requested
a brochure, it would kick off the
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simplest sequence of Oh, send it
to the mailing house to send them a
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brochure right internal fulfillment. Send that
person an email saying, hey, here's
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the basic information you probably are based
on the most frequently asked questions we get
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in the call center that you probably
want to know, and then a drip
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sequence of next most likely questions they're
going to ask sent to them. So
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I know, hey, they're being
nurtured in a relatively kind of simple manner,
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but back then was revolutionaries. There's
less emails I had to send them
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follow up with people. It's almost
like you could ask yourself, what would
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we like to have happened here if
we had an unlimited amount of time and
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energy to do all this stuff we
wish we could do? That's what you
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can do with marketing automation is to
make sure the right things are actually happening
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at the right time and the way
you would like them to happen. And
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of course there's limitations with it and
every software has its own limitations of things
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that can or can't do. So
you kind of have to build around what
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these programs are actually able of doing, because, even though you'd like to
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go personal with everyone you know,
some make it easier to do that than
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others. Some of my favorite software
programs that I've looked at and some of
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them my views, but others I've
just heard about a lot from others,
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is, of course, number one's
hubspot. I think everybody knows the hubspot
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kind of rules the marketing automation game. But then right behind it is salesforce
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with marketing cloud and part DOTS.
There two solutions. There's Marcato, very
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popular in the B two B space. I don't know why, but people
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like it, I guess, the
time, and then for smaller B two
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B companies, active campaign and infusion
software definitely still in the mixes being really
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popular. And a little shout out
to mail chimp, though I don't really
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you could call that marketing automation,
but it's there. I guess it's okay.
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It's interesting on the mail chimp side, which is funny because we're like
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talking about mail chimp last last time
too, but they are expanding and it's
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interesting to watch like what they're adding, because they were really niche and now
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I'll continue to watch where they go
from here, but it does feel like
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they're going down the marketing automation track
a little bit more now. They've got
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that into it, money they got
acquired by into it a couple of years
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ago and and now they got that
big company money to to dump into their
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products for the big boy energy.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. They're
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all over that now. They're just
what can we spend money on? How
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can we grow? Absolutely I was
watching the NFL week. One of the
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NFL happened two days ago and uh, I'm seeing into it mail, chimp
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ads and so I thought, okay, that's that's that big boy money.
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You got that into it cash dropping
it on TV commercials. Well, I
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think it's fascinating. Again ago.
Okay, so marketing automation tools. It
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makes sense why we'd be looking into
that to add our tech stack attribution crm.
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When we we flip from just findings
two recommendations, James, as you
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hear all this and we're walking through
it, anything that first jumps out at
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you? Yeah, I think for
me it's, you know, marketing teams
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need to be looking for ways to
save time on on the tasks that are
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going to drive pipeline. We've seen
in this research from different questions that pipeline
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is ultimately what marketers are are measured
on and so I think thinking about your
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tools in such a way that,
you know what allows me to focus as
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much energy as I can on driving
pipeline, as much creative energy. So
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for us, you know, it's
a sauna, it's hubspot. There are
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a few other tools, but I
think marketing teams can get really Geeky when
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it comes to like putting together a
tech stack, and at the end of
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the day what you're trying to do
is is be as efficient as possible so
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you can focus all of your creative
energy on how you can drive pipeline for
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the business. Yep, and piggybacking
off of that, I think video becomes
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like it's so important and we talk
about it and like we specifically are like
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nonstop on the video train right now. But it's interesting because even our evolution,
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like I look, when I came
onto the team back in November,
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we're a podcasting agency. We were
not really utilizing video in any meaningful way,
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especially on Linkedin, and so it's
like we want to have these ways
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where we can communicate our message effectively
in a personal way and we want to
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do that not I don't have to
rerecord over and over and over again right
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like I want to distribute this content
well. So thinking through strategically, how
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do we get our message into the
market, how do we do it effectively
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and how do we save time while
doing it? To me, that's been
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the evolution from basically over the last
ten or so months that I've been on
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the team, is how we think
about video and how it can actually like
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you could put that in your automated
sequences and it could add a personal touch
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and there's there's so many elements to
putting video into your marketing automation. That
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is incredible. And then obviously it's
a great social tool and and all the
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things there. But that's what came
to my mind initially as I'm looking at
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these like you can partner video with
marketing automation, with it with the other
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things that were kind of in that
list. Dan, how about you,
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man? Do you find that marketing
automation like critical for scaling your marketing efforts,
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but it doesn't substitute for your marketing? No, how like you just
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can't get a Marcato or an infusion
software hubspot and expect to be good at
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it right away. Right. It's
like it's like downloading photoshop and being being
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able to like make something beautiful with
it. Yeah, there's kind of a
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skill involved. We're getting some landing
page dragon drop software and thinking you can
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just from a template make a landing
page that can convert the traffic over um
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at a high percentage. They're skills
involved and how to use these automation tools
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and it's not easy to come by, because even the people who are great
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at marketing ops don't necessarily have the
marketing chops in order to know what emails
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need to go where. And then
the copywriters who know how to write good
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emails or right good content sometimes struggle
with you. But what's possible with the
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how you can craft their journey and
these marketing automation tools. So it's kind
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of a diverse skill set you need
to even be successful with them, which
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is why are the people that are
good at it are kind of rare and
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well worth the money you can invest
with them, because it's a strong Nix
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of technical knowledge of what's possible here
and then how to actually use it to
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create a journey that's, you know, worthwhile. B Two B growth will
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be right back. There are a
lot of questions on marketers minds right now
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and analyzing the latest trends can be
a full time job in itself. Can,
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then, a r filter really improve
brand awareness? Why are streaming ads
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so allowed? What do viewers really
think about shoppable ads? Marketing Group does
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game alongside a growing community of over
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Check it out by clicking the link
in our show notes right now.
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So it's kind of a diverse skill
set you need to even be successful with
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them, which is why are the
people that are good at it are kind
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of rare and well worth the money
you can invest with them, because it's
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a strong Nix of technical knowledge of
what's possible here and then how to actually
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use it to create a journey that's, you know, worthwhile. And you're
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also balancing like what do we want
to tell them with? What do they
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want to hear? What do they
actually know already. That's such like when
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we talk about being personal in your
marketing. Its success can sound fluffy,
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but that's where they start to meet, right where it's like, okay,
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we want to tell this message to
the market. But also they might not
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be educated, they might like there's
a million things that they might have questions
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on that we think they already know. So having someone that can put themselves
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as a marketer in their shoes of
the person that you're trying to educate that
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skill is is extremely, extremely important, James, for you on video specifically,
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as we I know, we have
like made a concerted effort in the
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last I'd say a few months to
be just like heavy there. Talk a
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little bit about that and why you've
just been like okay, we have to
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we have to go all in on
video and like some of the strategy,
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if you would. Yeah, so
I went to lunch, I don't know,
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I guess it was a couple of
months ago now, with my friend
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Todd Klauser, and it was after
he had really started to blow up on
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Tiktok and on on Linkedin. We've
been friends since he was at, I
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think, customer gauge prior to joining
refined labs and he wasn't really doing a
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lot of video back when he was
a customer gauge and then gets to refined
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labs starts doing a ton of video
on both Tiktok and Linkedin, and I
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had already met up with todd,
I think, a couple of times at
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that point. We were we were
friends, and I remember showing up and
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seeing him at lunch, this guy
that I've already I'm already friends with,
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and I remember the feeling that I
had like I was meeting with the celebrity
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because I was seeing him show up
in my feed both on Tiktok and linkedin
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every day for the last like several
months since we had met for lunch prior
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to that, and it's something clicked
in my mind at that point. I
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was like we have to start taking
video serious because if you can build that
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kind of affinity just by putting yourself
on camera and showing up in an intimate
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spot like someone's feed in a social
platform that they use every single day.
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And I've heard a lot about the
psychology behind like particularly with Tiktok, because
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it takes up the the entire screen
when you're watching a tiktok video. It's
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like your whole phone is consumed with
this person's face talking to you, and
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so the intimacy that comes from that
is real. And I just remember sitting
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across the table at my favorite pizza
spot with todd going, oh my gosh,
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I'm getting to I'm getting to have
lunch with Todd Klauser, and it's
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like, wait, a minute,
I'm already friends with this guy. What
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do I think? Like? But
because he has mastered video, he's been
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able to build affinity like he has
done with me, somebody who's already his
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friend, with thousands of other people
that have never had the opportunity to actually
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become friends with him feel like they
are his friend. And so that,
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Aha, really drove me to saying
we have to start doing video much more
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consistently. So we started really nailing
down, like what are our pillar pieces
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of content going to be? What
are the series gonna be? BTB,
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growth, original research, the journey, the Echo Chamber, and we just
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need to be scheduling these recordings on
a regular basis so that we can pull
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clips from our pillar content that goes
to our podcast and use it on social
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for our video strategy. And I
noticed it whenever I went to Dallas a
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few weeks ago for podcast movement.
I had multiple people come up to me
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and call me out and like Oh, hey, James, SAMs, James.
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And it's not like it happened everywhere. I'm not pretending like I'm I'm
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I've reached any sort of even micro
celebrity status, but I don't think that
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those few people would have sought me
out and and found me across the hall
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at the conference if I hadn't started
getting really aggressive with video for the months
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leading up to that event. So
I've I've seen it work and I'm convinced
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that even though the you know,
I'll put up a video and it gets
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twenty five likes and I'm like a
man. I could do a text post
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and get a hundred and fifteen likes
on that same post, but I can't
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build the kind affinity that I can
getting, you know, a thousand views
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and twenty five likes on a linkedin
video. So I know that, like
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my pride and my ego has to
get set to the side for actual business
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results and an actual affinity building.
You know what's interesting on that too,
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is videos so underrated because you can
sit behind and type for as as long
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as you want and get your wording
all right, but then when someone meets
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you in person, if you're you
can't actually hold like good back and forth.
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It's it's interesting to watch that dynamic
versus. If you choose to get
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good on video, granted you don't
have to go live right so you can
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be editing, but you you see
what you come off like and you're able
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to tweak things and change and your
vocabulary grows even like hosting podcasts now for
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five years. Like the way I
say things or how I think about what
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I'm gonna say is vastly different,
and so if you want to get better
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at messaging and how you word things, trying to talk it out is a
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really valuable way of trying to figure
out do I communicate my message effectively?
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And then on the todd closser thing, I have to tell you, James,
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this is kind of funny because watching
his evolution over the last few months,
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where he's like todd to me is
the funny guy. He's like I
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go to Linkedin and he's he's funny
and I watched so many of his videos
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on silent for a while where it's
just like either subtitles on the screen or
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whatever. I check in now and
then then, like time goes by and
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all of a sudden, like the
last month or so, I'm like wait,
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todd serious, he's serious todd now
and he's like actually dropping bombs.
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Yeah, it's great content, but
you gotta have both sides of Todd.
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We need to make sure that he
keeps the funny side very active, because
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everybody loves loves that as well.
I just thought it was funny. If
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you're listening here here, Benji,
bring back the funny. We don't have
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to say goodbye the serious todd,
but we need some funny todd in our
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lives. Exactly, exactly. Okay, Dan, one thing on the list
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was also just talking through just not
relying solely on marketing attribution software. So
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can you just talk us through anything
else here that you you thought stood out
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to you on on the attribution side? The attribution side is interesting because when
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I saw that, that's like it's
one of the top pieces of marketing tech
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that marketers are looking to acquire so
they can be more data driven. It
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just kind of makes me smile and
hanging my head a little bit it's such
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there's such a strong narrative to be
data driven. Yet marketing attribution software only
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gives you one piece of the puzzle
that you need to tell like a complete
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story about what's going on, and
even then I don't think you can actually
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get the full story. It's like, you know, trying to read tea
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leaves in order to tell the future
and your your cup. Here marketing attribution
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just gives you one tiny little snippet. Is it worth it? Yes,
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it's more than nothing. So I
like what attribution software can tell me.
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I'm like the naysayers now are going
against that narrative and saying it can't tell
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you anything. Oh, I could
tell you something. You can tell me
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which of my paper Click advertisements are
working the best. It can tell me
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which SCO efforts to spend more time
on. It can tell me how well
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my SMS and email marketing campaigns are
going. You can tell me a lot,
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but it only tells me one piece
of the story. It doesn't make
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up for what I call like the
three pronged like attack you can do to
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try to understand what the customer journey
is actually like, because the other two
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big pieces of it are are you
actually just talking to your customers, like
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you having conversations with them and asking
them what their journey was, and then
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are you just putting it into surveys
and asking them like hey, how did
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you hear about us? And leaving
an open field probably the easiest thing you
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could do, and it's on your
demo farm or your consultation farm. How
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did you hear about us? Leave
him a blank field and just let them
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tell you. A lot of them
remember. Let them tell you, and
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then you can kind of triangulate between
marketing, attribution surveys and Gen them just
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getting it straight from their mouth,
you can kind of get a better picture
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of what's going on. So I'm
happy that people are going after it,
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but I'm also kind of scared that
it becomes the one leg of the stool
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that they just rest on. They're
just gonna fall over on it. Though,
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Dan and and Benji, one of
the things that I saw in this
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research there are some marketers that we
surveyed that said that they wish a tool
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existed that wasn't on the market.
So there's things like a tool to help
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with creating a fan base, a
way to keep in touch with dead leads
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that doesn't feel automated and and and
instead feels human, something that you know,
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utilizes personal SMS, a a B
M tool that helps you do personal
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a B M, opposed to personalized
a b m. and when I saw
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that stuff come back in the research, I just thought, well, no,
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Dubh like, that's your job as
the marketer, like you were probably
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compensated very well to be a great
copywriter and to write copy that doesn't sound
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like a robot wrote it and that
does sound more human. A tool with
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helping create a fan base. Oh, man, like, that's that's why
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they hired a marketer, like there's
so much that goes in to creating,
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you know, creating a fan base, creating affinity. It's creativity, it's
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outside the box thinking. A tech
stack is it almost feels silly to have
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to say this out loud, but
a tech stack is not going to solve
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that problem. And, man,
if it did, then I don't know,
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like that that tool would be worth
billions of dollars in about six seconds.
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But that's to me. What's so
invigorating about being a marketer is getting
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to think through these things and figure
this stuff out so that you can drive
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pipeline for your organization. Instead of, you know, just hoping that there's
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gonna be some tool out there to
save the day, we should just had
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a tool that did my job.
That's what I hear. I don't want
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to do anything. Yes, I
mean, that's it right, because the
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tech stack needs to make us more
efficient. It should help us get some
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of our time back when it's doing
it what it should do right, like,
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if we're gonna add a tool make
me more efficient, give me some
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extra time to then do exactly what
you said, James, be more creative,
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be in a a headspace where I
can think through strategy, through high
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level things that are going to push
the organization forward. And, uh,
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they actually like allow me to do
what I'm best at, you know.
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So don't take away my job,
don't take away my job, but but
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allow me to do it to the
best that I possibly can. And Uh,
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I love this episode. I think
it's such a fascinating question because it's
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like, well, what are we
gonna hear? You know, I think
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when you just hear the question on
its own, what tech tool are you
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looking to add, you might not
think of all the implications, but I
357
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think there's so many things we could
we could highlight, and you guys did
358
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:37.839
a great job of highlighting some of
those today. So Hey, if you
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haven't listened to all the original research
episodes, go back find them in the
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feed again. I did tag them, so you can see him now clearly
361
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.319
in the B two B growth feed. If you haven't followed the show yet,
362
00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.799
go ahead and do that and then
connect with Dan James and myself over
363
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.799
on Linkedin. We're sharing some of
these clips, this content over there and
364
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:00.079
we also want to have conversations around
marketing and business and life, so I
365
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.079
would love to connect that way.
We'll be back real soon with another episode.
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00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:18.359
Thanks for listening, everybody. If
you enjoy today's show, hit subscribe
367
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.920
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you really enjoyed today's show, take a
368
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.839
second to rate and review the podcast
on the platform you're listening to it on
369
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right now. If you really really
enjoyed this episode, share the love by
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texting you to a friend who would
find it insightful. Thanks for listening and
371
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thanks for sharing.