Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to another
episode of GDP growth. I'm your host,
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timmy Bauer. I'm the content strategist
here at Sweet Fish. And my guest today
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is Isabel papoulias. She is the CMO at
Media fly. Isabel Welcome to the show.
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Hello thank you for having me and
that's a good way to start. I just lost
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my earring but hey that's why body
casting its life. So we're going with
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the flow here. Well it's not live so I
could edit out you losing your earring.
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But uh yeah so it's about the last time
you and I were talking I asked you you
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know what's under utilized tactic and B.
Two B. Marketing and you said something
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to me that felt really no brainer which
is why I'm interested in doing an
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episode with you on it and that is not
being hyper targeted and not doing the
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I. C. P. Evaluative work. So first of
all, before we go any further what do
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you mean by that? So I see p ideal
customer profile. I know some some
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folks when I mentioned it don't always
know the acronym but it's definitely
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common uh with marketing and CMoS. Yeah.
You know the reason why that first came
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to mind when you asked me was really
two fold one was because we and media
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fly. You know my team and sales were
actively going through nicely. We kind
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of exercise right uh to hone in on our
target audience. And then second
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because I am um it was surprising to me
to find out that when I do talk to cmos
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or marketing leads at how how many
don't haven't applied it. Right. And so
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that's I don't know if that's your
definition of underrated. I think again
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as a concept it's very well concept.
It's more like it seems like it's not
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as frequently applied that I would have
expected. So that's that's where it
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came from. Why do you think you're
you've so often seen it not being
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applied or not being applied diligently?
You know, I'm going to guess it's
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because there is so much pressure on us
cmos and you know marketing leaders to
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create demand that we often forget the
quality and we go for volume, right?
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And and that's a big statement to make.
Of course we want quality. But I think
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there's a pressure right to just kind
of more is more there's a feeling that
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more I need more demand, I need more
pipeline, I need to keep the funnel and
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so I'm gonna talk to everybody and I've
done it. So this isn't a criticism. I
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think that is just so much pressure.
Having been someone who's done it. Why
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do you think it's the bad way to do
things? Why do you think that instead
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you need to be hyper targeted? Yeah.
And by the way, it's maybe not always
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the bad way to do things right. But
what I'm, what I'm seeing again from my
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own experiences and it's a bit
counterintuitive, but we went through
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the exercise and I'm happy to talk
about this if you ask me later and
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honed in on truly are are ideal
customer, like what, you know, what is,
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what is more, what do our most
delighted customers look like and what
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do they have in common and how do we
build a profile to find more folks like
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them? Right. And and by doing that by
honing in, we kind of decided to let go
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of a huge portion of our total
addressable market, like the potential
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and and all the folks that we could
have been talking to and industries and
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size of companies one not right? And it
was partially counterintuitively,
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partially nerve wracking because you're
like, what's going to happen to my
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demand? Like, wow, like lead the
inbound leads are going to plummet. And
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so psychologically it was a little
scary, but it's happened all of that
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has happened. So you got a lot less in
leeds and a number of opportunities,
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but what you lose in volume, your
makeup inequality at least, has been
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our experience, right? Why? Because
you're going in front of the eyeballs
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that really matter. And so other things
start to change, right? The quality of
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your opportunities, the size of your
opportunities, the your clothes rate
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goes up because you're actually talking
and pulling in the right folks, right?
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And so it's been interesting to see to
see the impact on the business as a
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result of the SCP exercise. And it's
always, you know, I mean, it's always
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iterative. We're constantly revisiting,
you know, we we uh we revisit both ways,
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right? The discussion is like, do we go
even narrow, more narrow? Or do should
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we have we gone too narrow? And do we
need to broaden a little bit? Right.
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And so it's it's every Every few months,
like once a quarter we come back
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together and it's very much a
conversation with marketing and sales,
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like, and I should stress that this
should in no way be marketing, like
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most things in marketing, I'm not a
believer in marketing going there
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corner and coming up with their own
stuff. I mean it's absolutely 100%, but
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you know the buzzword of sales and
marketing alignment applies. Yeah. Yeah.
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So before we get to how to iterate it,
let me just talk, let's just have you
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unpack how you, you folks did it. And
so for somebody who's listening, who
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wants to do what you did, what did you
do? Yeah. So we had we had some
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hypotheses already from from the past
and what we've seen work and whatnot.
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And uh but then what we did is we we go
to sales and marketing in a room, you
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know, and and like I said, started with
everybody came in with their list of
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The 15 most delighted customers in
their from their standpoint, right? So
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we also had a customer success in the
room. So by cells, I mean, you know,
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our hunters as well as our account reps
and customer success and everybody
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brother perspective and truly delighted.
As it not just happy. Like I said,
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truly delighted, right? The ones that
are gonna have been with us for a long
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time are constantly expanding are
giving us referrals are doing case
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studies and press releases right? Like
that kind of relationship. Then we
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dissected those relationships. We we
actually there were a lot of
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commonalities you know, which is great.
You know everybody come came in with a
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similar list and then we kind of went
down the list like one by one. Okay, so
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let's talk about this relationship like
what makes relationships so special. Uh
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and then we found more commonalities
there. And so that's how we, I would
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say that exercise for us didn't
necessarily yield something completely
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new, like radically new as much as it
is, it's validated our initial
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hypothesis of what the I. C. P. Should
be and uh refine it a little bit, but
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you might want something a little
different. Hey everybody Logan with
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sweet fish here, if you're a regular
listener of GDP Growth, you know that
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I'm one of the co hosts of the show,
but you may not know that. I also head
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up the sales team here at Sweet fish.
So for those of you in sales or sales
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ops, I wanted to take a second to share
something that's made us insanely more
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efficient lately. Our team has been
using lead I. Q. For the past few
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months and what used to take us four
hours gathering contact data. Now takes
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us only one where 75 more efficient
were able to move faster with outbound
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prospecting and organizing our
campaigns is so much easier than before.
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I'd highly suggest you guys check out
lead IQ as well. You can check them out
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at least I Q dot com. That's L E A D I
Q dot com. All right, let's get back to
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the show. Yeah. What were the criteria
or categories that you you know, we
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look at. Yeah. Look at this and you
know, it might vary depending on again
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your customer base and you know what
they have in common. But you know, it's
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it's looking at things for us. It was
looking at things like industry. Like
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we definitely saw a couple of
industries our much more relevant for
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us company size. You know some very
very detailed specs there a couple of
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use cases that very much like the rose
to the surface. And I would say those
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those three elements were probably the
biggest characteristics for us to build
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the around was the industry, the
company size and then the use cases. So
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how do you iterate on this? So like I
said you're a visit because then you're
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going then you go to market with an I
keep in mind and so what I call it is
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like I. C. P. Or bust. So now we're I
want to make sure that we're spending
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most of our calories as I call it.
Which is our energy on getting in front
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of that right audience right? Whether
it's with like our outbound efforts
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right? And are targeting and the list
building that we're doing with sales
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and making they're going after the
right companies. Whether it's even from
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uh like a field marketing even side of
things like when we do digital events I
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I don't want to go abroad. I mean just
because we're in the sales enablement
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business. Right? So just because it's a
self enablement event doesn't that we
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should be there right? I wanna only be
present at events where that customer
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is present and if they're not there
then I'm just not going to do that
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event. Right? So that's another example
of like how you started applied account
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based marketing from a digital
marketing standpoint and looking at
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intent data. And so again it's it's
made were only targeting those accounts
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that fit the ICMP. Right? So we're
trying we're trying to do is we're
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trying to really limit the waste and I
think limiting the waist, it's always
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important for marketing, but it's more
important than ever. Now. You know,
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we're still in covered, you know,
hopefully soon to be post covered, but
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lots of us have experienced, you know,
marketing cuts. Yes please marketing
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budget cuts. You know, there's a lot
more, there's even more scrutiny on
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budgets and how hard the budget is
working on performance. And so there's
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less appetite for waste correctly.
Right? And failure. And so I think the
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more you can target, like I said, your
calories including your dollars to um
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the audience that will have the biggest
impact the better. And, and it's not to
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say that we're not gonna talk to be
clear, that's the ideal customer, It's
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not the only customer,
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right? And that's something we also
remind ourselves of internally, you may
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have catch some, some folks in your net
right through inbound that don't quite
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fit that, but for other reasons,
they're still good to talk to write. It
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just means that we're not going to
proactively spent a lot of effort
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trying to reach them. But if they're
coming to us and it's a sizable
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business opportunities and we'll still,
you know, still talk, how do you figure
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out if you've gone too narrow or too
broad? I mean, frankly that's, that's
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pipeline, you know, I mean, if it's at
the point of being very targeted, it's
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getting quality pipeline and turning it
into revenue, right? And so if you're
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seeing your pipeline and your revenue
negatively affected by those efforts
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and you're then you're doing something
wrong, then, you know, you need to
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adjust how often are you folks
revisiting your and finding out like,
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oh we've definitely we definitely need
to change this, I would say once a
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quarter. I mean, you know, we like,
like most startups, we, you know, we
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plan, we have quarterly goals that we
need to hit and uh that seems like the
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right cadence for us to be revisiting
the I. C. P. As well as other parts of
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our business strategy. You know, as we
go into as we finished one quarter and
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we go into the next one, what have we
learned? We revisit some things and,
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you know, the cps is one of them. Also,
if I'm wanting to follow your advice,
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making an honest effort to follow what
you're saying, how could I mess it up?
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Mhm. How can you mess it up? I mean I
think you messed it up. I think first
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of all it makes a messing up might be
okay because it's trial and error, so I
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don't know they're messing up is bad,
then you course correct. So so that's
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that's one thing. I mean you you would
mess it up by probably the biggest way
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to mess it up is, but not if you're
gonna go through the process of truly
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defining your I. C. B. Then your
messaging really needs to be relevant
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to the audience. That's the whole point,
right? And then you're you're really
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holding on the right message for them.
So if you're not addressing everything
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else, so if you find you you define the
I. C. B. But then you're not really
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developing the right message or you're
not revisiting your digital marketing
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strategy or other approaches to hit on
the audience, then you're you're not
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getting the most out of it. I love it,
Isabel, I love this episode. It's good
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to just folk, even though it's so
fundamental, the fact that you're
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saying that you've met so many folks at
your level that are not doing this work
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um I think makes this relevant. Thank
you so much for being on the podcast.
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How can listeners connect with you? The
best place to find me through Lincoln?
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So Isabel papoulias looked me up and
send me a message there and I'm much
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better responding on linked in than I
am on email and that's why I'm I'm
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sharing Lincoln and nothing else. I
also media flight, Media media Fly dot
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com. I wanted to mention that obviously
you can track me that way or others on
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the leadership team uh and also the
involved selling institute which is
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part of media fly. It's our leadership
platform. So that's another another
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entry point point. There's also a lot
of great content there around our
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categories. So awesome. Isabelle thank
you so much for being on the podcast.
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Thank you for having me. Mm
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one of the things we've learned about
podcast audience growth is that word of
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mouth works. It works really, really
well actually. So if you love this show,
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it would be awesome if you texted a
friend to tell them about it. And if
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you send me a text with a screenshot of
the text you sent to your friend meta.
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I know I'll send you a copy of my book,
content based networking. How to
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instantly connect with anyone you want
to know. My cell phone number is
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40749033 to eight. Happy texting