Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth.
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Welcome in. On today's episode of
B Two B growth, we're gonna be
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talking over some some overrated trends,
and we had the privilege recently, like
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in the last couple of years,
of sitting down with a hundred marketing leaders
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and asking fifteen original research questions.
We're tackling one of those on this episode
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today. With me we have James
Carberry and Dan Sanchez and we're gonna dig
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into the findings around the following question. What's the most overrated trend in B
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two B marketing? Before we do
that, like, let's just talk about
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how this research was conducted for a
second, James, because I think it's
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important context, and then we'll dive
into the question. Tell me a little
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bit about the process of of getting
this research and compiling because it was actually
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before I was was on the team
even. Yeah, so the original idea
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is that we would actually like charge
for this original research and that we would
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do it quarterly. And we're like, we're we're already having all these conversations
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with B two B marketing practitioners on
B twob growth. Why don't we just
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tack on some questions into the pre
interview of the Post interview and we'll compile
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this research. It will be qualitative
instead of the typical like surveys that are
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just quantitative. And boy did I
not realize how much of a massive undertaking
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this would be. So we started
this in started the conversations and we decided
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that we wanted to try to get
to a hundred. I can't remember what
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the original number was. We're like, you know what it'll sound sexi or
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if we have a hundred people that
we've we've asked these questions too. So
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we kept pushing through. We got
lost in the slog of it because organizing
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everybody's answers, you've got to transcribe
everything, you've got to figure out how
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to like organize it in a a
that is easy for someone to go back
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through and either read or listen to
all the content so that they can come
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up with insights. Anyway, it
took us all of basically the back half
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of and all of one and then
the first part of to put this all
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together. But the original intent was, hey, this, this could be
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like a product that we end up
selling and that might still be something we
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do down the road. The original
intent was not to. From what I
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can remember, I don't think we
ever intended to like break it down on
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B twob growth like we're doing now. So that's been a more recent or
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more recent idea or evolution of the
original research project. But that's how we
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did it. I mean it was
just we are already having conversations with these
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B two B marketing leaders and we
just said, hey, it'd be really
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interesting if we asked all of them
the same ten or fifteen questions and then
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compiled the data and and told the
world about it. Yeah, in Sorri
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right, like research like this is
always so great to have posts, but
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when you're actually in the process of
collecting you and then, I think we're
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even going to jump into this in
a minute, but like when you think
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of trends, getting original research data
driven, like the jump from data to
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actual insight, there's just so many
steps in between and pulling that out,
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and so we are learning that,
but we're still using this and I think
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that's what's important, because there's so
much here that we can glean conversation from
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and then ultimately it will make us
better at our marketing. And so that's
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our hope and our desire and honestly, honestly, Benji, it is,
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I don't want to say surprising,
because I hear Chris Walker talk about it
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all the time, but the benefit
to this, in addition to it being
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great content, it's actually giving us
insights that are helping us build a better
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product or better service for our clients. So we were just in Denver with
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our leadership team talking through like how
can we take our service to the next
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level, and we're thinking through like
what kind of guarantee can we incorporate into
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our offer and the insights from this
research. We had just compiled like the
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last of the insights from it,
and I ended up referencing this original research
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all throughout the entire day because we
had just talked to literally a hundred of
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our ideal buyers. We know what
keeps them up at night, we know
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how their CEO measures and their success. We know what their biggest struggle is.
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So we can literally cater our service
to what we now know. We're
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not guessing anymore. We know what
these people are saying and we can go
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back and actually listen to them say
it. And so I'm pretty bullish on
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the fact that every company should figure
out how to do this. I'll be
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the first one to tell you it
as hard as hell, but absolutely worth
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it. Well, today's question is
very subjective and it's good to acknowledge that
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before we go into this. This
is less saying everyone thinks this way and
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more here's a bunch of things that, as we surveyed marketers, B two
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B marketers, they're going this is
an overrated trend in marketing and B two
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B marketing right now. And so
here's what I'm gonna Invite from Dan and
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James, as they can interrupt me
at any time. I'm about to to
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read through this list of answers that
given to this question. And guys,
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if if one is is kind of
like a bigger deal to you, you
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want to talk about it for a
second, interrupt me and we can talk
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about it discuss. So here are
some of the things that were mentioned as
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overrated trends. Trade shows, AI, chat bots, gated content, a
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B M as a service or tool
or product, email capture, white papers,
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sending gifts that aren't personal, being
data driven. So that is a
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lot of things. The ones that
stand out to me. I think that
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we've all kind of evolved our thinking
around. The one that we were talking
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about right before we hit record was
was gated content. And so there's this
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massive push to get all of your
content and Dan, you've actually had you've
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helped me kind of see a different
way. I decided not to gate our
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B Two B podcasting course that we
we released a year or two ago.
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I still don't think I regret that
decision. Dan, you feel differently.
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What are your thoughts, dwn on, on why this whole push to get
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all your content is maybe not the
best idea? As it is with most
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trends, like trends tend to flip
from one side to the other. So
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we go really hard on one side
and of course pushed it too far and
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then everyone's like no, it sucks, it's horrible, so it swings to
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total opposite side instead of landing in
the middle. Right. I came from
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a B to c world and from
higher ed where I was using gated content
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successfully, like it was freaking working. I would get their email, I
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would send them great follow up emails
and I would send them good content,
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like they would literally come in on
a specific category on the blog. I
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showed them a relevant lead magnet that
was relevant to that category. Some would
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opt in for it and get the
lead magnet and I'd follow up with more
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articles related to that category and the
consumption levels are really high and of course
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over time the consumption level of them
would go down and I'd unoped them out
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if they didn't engage with a certain
amount. But I would never send them
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to sales. Versus when I found
out when I came over to B two
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B and, people were like literally
capturing people on content and then shipping into
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sales without them initiating any kind of
sales conversation, I was like, well,
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of course the lead's not going to
covert. No wonder sales hates like
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this kind of quote unquote m Q. Well, I would never do that,
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like I might throw a right hook
and the email every once in a
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while being like hey, you want
to talk to sales? No, cool,
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don't. I wouldn't send waste our
time on sales because I know that
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it's just made sense that it didn't
work. At first I was like,
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why are they so against gated content, and I found out, oh,
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it's because you're freaking doing it wrong. Like if you do it right you
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can essentially send them more value and
endear them, a small percentage of them
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a little bit more. But if
you have thousands of people coming to a
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blog or to a podcast or to
whatever the content is, and you're capturing
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a small percentage with something more value
and then you're following up in a really
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good way, there's nothing wrong with
that and it works well. I think
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a lot of my issue with,
you know, getting on lists because I
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wanted to download something, and it's
just getting increasingly and it's getting harder and
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harder, I think, to create
something good enough for me to want to
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consume it in my inbox. And
I don't know if that's too much,
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just me getting hammered with spam.
And I just hired someone to specifically like
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focus on my inbox for me.
So I literally like I have such an
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aversion to getting sucked into the rabbit
hole that is my inbox that so I
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I hesitate to come on too strong
here because I think I'm probably an extremist
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when it comes to just like I
don't want to think about my inbox.
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I want to be in my inbox. I want somebody reading all my stuff
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and then texting me to let me
know if they think that there's something big
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enough that I need to pay attention
to or or think about that comes into
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my inbox, because our internal comms
happen in slack and so I'm tuned in
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internally to the team through that platform. And so all the external stuff coming
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from email, most of it is
just absolute garbage. But I do think
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that if you're thoughtful, and we
talked about premise development all the time and
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figuring out what's your Hook, what's
your angle, and you see companies like
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the Hustle and these newsletters morning,
you know morning crew like there have been
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people that have figured out how do
we deliver a delightful experience in the inbox
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that people actually want to consume.
But it requires a lot of thought and
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it requires a lot of editorial lift
to create something so good that somebody wants
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to look at it. And I
think most of the time we, you
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know, at least in B Two
b land, there's not the thought and
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care put into what goes into the
email and and that's a shame because I
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think it's kind of given gated content
a really bad name. But we took
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a hybrid approach with the B twob
podcasting course and said Hey, you can
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you can watch all the course for
free, or you can sign up if
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you want access to updates or you
want a log in or you want it
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in your inbox so that you can
file it away and go back to it
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easily without having to remember a link. So there was some utility to like,
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but we allowed people to do both. I'm seeing more and more people
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do that. It's like, Hey, you can download it here if you
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want the pdf in your inbox,
or you can just look at it here.
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So yeah, so much of this
stuff. I think you hit the
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nail on the head, Dan,
when he said it's that we're somewhere in
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the middle. Like we we like
to take hot takes and go with the
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completely other way when in reality,
uh, there's probably a middle ground there,
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and I think the middle ground,
particularly forgated content, is are you
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delivering something exceptional in the inbox once
you capture that email, and obviously not
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just sending them straight to sales?
It's interesting because I would just use the
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imagery of a pendulum swinging, because
the most of marketing where you're going to
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get your advantage is when people swing
really hard to one side. You just
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look. Okay, they're all paying
attention over here. If we just go
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pay attention to whatever the opposite is, there's less people over there right now
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and that's where we win. You
look at direct mail and everybody that advocated
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to get rid of direct mail went
over to digital things and made it so
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crowded in the digital space that there
is definitely people that are winning with direct
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mail because they went where everybody else
thought we can't win over there. And
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so when you look at this list, I'm like, can you win at
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trade shows? Yeah, if there's
a ton of people on linkedin saying you
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shouldn't do trade shows, Blah Blah, blah, Blah Blah, but you
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know your market. When I look
at this entire lit like chat box would
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be a similar thing. If you
thought it was a trend a few years
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ago and most people are walking away
from it in your little industry and you
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walk into it, there could be
a potential advantage if done correctly. And
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even one thing we've talked about on
B two B growth before that hit this
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list was sending gifts that aren't personal
that we've talked about. Get receiving a
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gift and you're like this is like
half done merch or this is half done
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like swag, and I'm I'm just
not in on it. We we literally
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just hit pause on something like we
were about to do that. We were
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about to send out boxes to to
folks in squads, and I looked at
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what was going to go in the
boxes and I was like this just doesn't
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this doesn't feel like something I would
get in the mail and go, man,
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that was delightful, and so we
boshed it. But I don't think
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a lot of people have that have
are necessarily thinking about it in the same
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way, and so they put a
lot of time, into effort, into
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into things that don't actually do what
what they hope they would have done.
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I just think, yeah, that
pendulum and being aware of where you're at
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potentially can give you an advantage,
and that's as I look at this list.
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People are like, Oh, this
is so overrated. They get really
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passionate about it, and if that
becomes a blind spot, like just be
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aware that there is someone that can
win in that category still, there's someone
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that's using it effectively. If you
really want to learn it, you can
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learn it. You don't, you
shouldn't learn everything. Some of these things
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you should just all right, that's
for someone else, but pick your things
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and pick wisely. Dan. Anything
else that stands out to you from this
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list? Yeah, I still think
chat bucks suck. Everybody is saying they
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suck. I'm like, Yep,
I agree. Yep, that was a
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bad trend all through. I haven't
seen it done well. So somebody proved
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me wrong. I hope. If
you know a chat bought that works well,
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send it to Dan on Linkedin and
Hill. I think we use a
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chat Bot on the sweek fish site. I can't remember now. I hate
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it, I know. Okay,
so I'm looking at the key findings here.
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I'll tell you, guys, how
it was broken down status wise.
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So most marketers listed a B M
actually as a service or a tool or
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a product, as the trend that
was most overrated. So that actually came
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in a B M as a as
a tech tool. At and Dan,
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I know we've talked a lot about
a B M, so probably want your
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insight here. But then it goes
to things like social media, chat bots,
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trade shows. I think social is
very funny and that's such a broad
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term that I don't understand quite how
we got to eight percent. There but
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then four percent for things like virtual
events personalization. So there's a huge jump
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down from a B M to these
other categories. Any first initial insights,
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when you hear that Dan is a
statue. Twenty one percent saying the most
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overrated was a B M, I'm
not surprised. They were very successful in
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establishing that as a category. What's
interesting is three times as high as the
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second one, almost three times to
eight percent. What I found interesting and
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reading the responses is there's almost always
nuance to how people said a B m.
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But there it's almost like they can't
throw a B m out the window
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completely. It's always like just the
way it's emphasized about it being a tool
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or a crm. But almost all
the marketers, all B two B marketers,
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know the a B M is actually
a really good thing and coming from
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a BBC World, I didn't even
know and honestly it made me fall in
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love with B two B, because
a B M can be so it's you
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just have more information to work with. It's so different to cover a category.
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You know a category, even using
firm a graphics to have a narrowly
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defined category is very different from no, we're going to target these three companies
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to totally different approach changes the game
and some people might call that best practice,
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but I think most marketers know that
that is a good thing. And
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maybe they were doing in sales,
but I don't I still don't think most
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marketing departments do it that way.
I know even at sweet fish we kind
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of do it that way sometimes,
but most people just spray a very good
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segment. They're doing segmentation but not
going after specific companies, and I think
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that's why a B M is so
loved and hated, because of the tech
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people throw onto. It's like,
oh well, you have to have terminus,
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you have to have this, but
really most marketers will come to the
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conclusion that you can do it with
just an excel sheet, like it doesn't
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have to be fancy. Yeah,
I like that you called out the fact
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that you know. The fact that
three times more people that you know there
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there were these folks that said a
B M is an indication of how well
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I see terminus as really being the
category King of a B M and I
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think sang Ram just did a masterful
job of designing and building the category of
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a b m. and naturally,
when you do something that creates widespread awareness,
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a lot of adoption, you're gonna
have a lot of people hating on
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it. And so I personally know
sand Rome uh pretty well and I know
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his heart and I know like a
lot of just seeing these responses going because
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of this. I don't like it
and I don't like it and I'm like,
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I think sand Rome would agree with
you, like he doesn't like that
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either, like that's not what he's
advocating for as he was building this this
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category of of a b m.
and so I think category builders just naturally.
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If, if you succeed, I
think in a lot of cases you're
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you're going to have folks like this
that push back against it. Well,
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let's talk about because of these results, as you think of overrated trends,
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what are some recommendations? What are
some things we would do differently or or
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be aware of? And I can
go first on this. I think for
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me we're sort of speaking around it, but I think whenever there's a big
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trend like a B M and it
has staying power, right, but I
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think there's can be like strategy fatigue
or people half baked something and they call
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it a b M. They're not
fully in on it. There like executing
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at at sixty s and there's saying
yeah, we're doing a B M.
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and when they start talking about that, then more and more in the market
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or more and more on Linkedin.
You just get a lot of ideas all
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mixed in together that create like a
messaging problem and then you think something is
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overrated because we didn't see the results
that were preached by whoever the leader is
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or those those companies that are killing
it. It's like, well, our
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company tried that and it didn't really
work, and I think knowing that that
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fatigue can set in because it's being
harped on over and over again is so
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important. But to assess, like
how much are we actually putting in into
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this, and is this our course
strategy, like is this the thing that
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we really really want to do?
If we're gonna do it, let's do
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it and go all in on it. That's one of the absolute most most
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important things you can do. We
talked about focus on a previous one of
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these original research episodes. You have
to have a focused strategic approach or it's
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really hard to win. And so
to me it's like, well, if
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a B M is your your course
strategy, then that's gonna make a lot
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of other decisions easier for you because
you know what you're doing and how you're
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going to market. James, what
did you think as as kind of recommendations
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based out of this? Yeah,
so, I mean just I just think
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a lot of people have a bad
taste in their mouth about a B M
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because of their personal experience being on
the receiving end of it. It's particularly
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you know, we talked to VPS
of marketing. I think some CMOS were
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in the mix. I mean those
are executives that are right. I mean
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there's how many, nine thousand Martek
tools, and so I think you're on
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the receiving end of you know,
hey, can you take this hundred dollar
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gift card and jump on a demo
with somebody from our sales team? And
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somebody's calling that a B M and
it's like uh, so, bad execution
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of a B M. I think
gives a B M a bad name.
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But, like we've been saying this
whole time, like that's probably love marketing,
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the room that we have for creativity, outside the box, thinking doing
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something that's not necessarily that's not breaking
news. It's been done before, but
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we can do it better, we
can have a more creative execution. So
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I think that plays a big part
of the bad taste that people have in
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their mouth about a b m.
Dan, what are your thoughts here?
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I think the problem most B two
B marketers make with a B M is
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they over index on personalization. Rather
than being personal. The cool part about
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knowing who what the companies are that
you're marketing to, even knowing the individuals
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in the company, which is the
advantage. I fell in love with that.
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I do, because in B two
C you don't have that. B
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Two c you just have to spray
you know and just hope they come to
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you. Unless you're working in like
with millionaires or something, it's like you
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don't you don't know who they are. You can't make it personal. It's
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like impossible, but in B two
B you can. So what companies did
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was just be like, oh,
hello, first name, how is it
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going to insert a company name?
Are you going to be interested in one
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of our products? You're like that's
not come on. Just because you can
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insert their first name and company name
doesn't make me more likely to like the
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thing. Just because you can insert
my company and my low my region onto
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your website homepage. Oh, I'm
so much more likely to like your product.
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Come on, like, what were
you thinking? Just because I don't
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know and I understand like they just
because they can pull it off technically doesn't
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make it actually effective, but they
market it like it's effective. Like people
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like to see personalization, but what
the opportunity is to make it highly personal.
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You know, I can now actually
understand the company. I can look
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at their if they're a public company, like their their past financial performance kind
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of understand where they're at. Are
they on the rise, are they struggling?
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Are they on the are they going
down or they kind of going back
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and forth? How is their product
doing? How is it perceived? I
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can actually go look on social media
to see how they're perceived. If I'm
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selling them some kind of marketing service
or something, I can get to know
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the individual I'm selling to and follow
them on social and interact with them and
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build relationship and send maybe something that's
personal to them. I had someone sent
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me a personalized gift. They found
out I loved running, so they sent
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me a book on running called born
to run. I'd actually already read the
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book. It's one of the if
you're into running, so like one of
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the best running books you could read. But it was a very thoughtful gift
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and even though I don't had already
listened to the book on audible, I
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was like, Oh, they looked
at my profile, they know I'm into
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running. It's not something I talked
about, but it is. It is
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online and it was a very thoughtful
gift and that's where being personal that's where
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the power of a B M comes
to play, because you're actually paying attention
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to the real people and the real
companies and making your message just so much
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more relevant for them. You made
me just think about like where I'm actually
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wary of something. I'm very wary
of automation, like just pushing me through
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something, and it partially because we're
marketers right, so we're very aware,
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oh, we're probably in a sequence
right now, or we were you.
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You just start like thinking about what's
the back end of this? But when
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I get an email where it's like
personalized and I put personalized in quotes,
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there's such a lack of attention to
detail and you know that you're just one
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of a thousand getting this thing that
you're like, I'm so less likely to
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engage with that company moving forward like
let alone. It doesn't leave me at
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neutral. It actually makes me feel
pretty crappy. And so automation, I
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think, has become something where I'm
like in its best form, like if
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it was serving up. I've talked
to several CMOS who are like working companies
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where their their content. It's like
an automated content machine. Okay, they
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read this, that's how much time
on page we should offer up this.
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Maybe in that context I would like
it. But specifically with like email and
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the sequences you put me in,
a lot of times it just feels like
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I'm just another one of the random
numbers in your in your sequence. I
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don't know if if you guys feel
that at all either. Yeah, I
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mean it might take on people sending
bad emails. I guess it's it's more
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about like a one, like when
I get a bad cold email. It
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doesn't that's necessarily hurt as weird as
it sounds, it doesn't tarnish the brand
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for me because I spend so little, like you can detect them from a
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mile away and they're deleted before I
even like. So you could literally I
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could have the same person sending me
the same crappy cold email and it like
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it doesn't because I don't even it
doesn't even like register in my brain who
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you are. So I don't give
it the thought to even try to remember
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the company name. If I were
to see like somebody from their team post
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on Linkedin, I wouldn't have that
negative association. That might be different with
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like corporate kind of more like broadcast
emails, not corporate, but broadcast emails,
355
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where they're like hitting my inbox over
and over and over again, or
356
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like I can't figure out how to
UNSUBSCRIBE, like because it actually caused me
357
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pain in trying to like go through
and try to figure out how to unsubscribe.
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That might that triment the brand.
But what I know we're we're harping
359
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on on a B M a lot
here, but obviously are. You know,
360
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I wrote a book about this oncept
of content based networking and and using
361
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your podcast to engage on a very
one to one human level with decision makers
362
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that your target accounts by asking them
to be a guest on B two,
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b growth, and so there are
so many benefits that come out of that.
364
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Obviously I think I was talking to
it might have been even Dan he's
365
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in Orlando this week. We were
talking two nights ago, I think,
366
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and it was just like it's you
know, content based networking is is hard
367
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in the same way that cold outbound
is hard. If you're only thinking about
368
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content based networking as like a sales
like I want this guest to become a
369
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client. Like if that is your
sole purpose of doing a B M through
370
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a podcast, prepared to not,
you know, to be underwhelmed, because
371
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the likelihood that so, when you
reach out to to be a guest on
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your show, is in market in
that moment for your specific solution very,
373
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very rare. I mean we've done
thousands of episodes. Very early do we
374
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ask someone to be on B two
B growth and then, like, I
375
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think it's happened maybe twice where like
within the next couple of weeks are like
376
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hey, like, can we talk
about having you guys produce our podcast?
377
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Like very rarely does that happen.
oftentimes it will be like a year,
378
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two years, sometimes three or four
years down the road, and there's relationship
379
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that goes into that. Right,
like you, you ask someone to be
380
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a guest on the show, you
now have have a conversation, like you
381
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.759
know that their kids just went off
to their first year at, you know,
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Alabama or and so you get these
insights and then, if you're connected
383
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.240
on Linkedin, you can now engage
in a way that you couldn't engage with
384
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them before. And so I am
still a huge advocate of leveraging podcasting for
385
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relationship building and I think relationship building
and a B M are much closer tied
386
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to one another than a lot of
people think. It just it's harder work
387
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and it's not as like push button, easy to automate. But I still
388
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think it's incredibly effective. When I
look back now, you know, after
389
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:06.720
building this business for seven years,
the relationships I have in in B Two
390
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.759
b marketing have been a massive strategic
advantage for us for a wide variety of
391
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:18.279
reasons. But I think that that
approach to leveraging relationship building through asking someone
392
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.319
to collaborate with you on content is
a huge still relatively, I think,
393
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:29.359
pretty untapped potential for a B M
execution. Yep, I would totally agree,
394
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and I think it's great to look
at the positive side of creating content
395
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with somebody else and how you can
be personal there and play the long game
396
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.359
and and even just from a your
network. It holds everything for you as
397
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.960
as a person, career wise,
like the connections that you have, the
398
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.359
community that you are within. It
opens doors for you, right. So,
399
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:55.599
like just allowing something like a podcast
and creating content together to do that.
400
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.359
It opens up your mind. It's
creating something of value for other people
401
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.759
and you're now connected to this person
long term that maybe you end up doing
402
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.240
business with. When you get that
narrow focus. We've all heard a podcast,
403
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.279
and I mean I have clicked off
several very fast when you could tell,
404
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.440
okay, they're just kind of here
to do their thing because this is
405
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:19.039
gonna hopefully drive business, versus having
a compelling conversation and being there to to
406
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.039
give away valuable content. It's just
a different way of operating and that's obviously
407
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:27.079
what we're going to advocate for.
I think something I'm thinking about is you're
408
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.720
explaining that, James was like we
need to know, and we hit on
409
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this last week too, like what
are the buzzwords in our space right now?
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And, even if we're sort of
doing something that could be labeled like
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a B M, making sure that
how we're talking about it and how we're
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thinking about it is not just in
a way of like, okay, uh,
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00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:52.799
you know, we're we're using this
a B M strategy. When you
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start saying that and people already think
it's a Buzzword, they're going to turn
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off mentally. Right. So,
like how you go to market with the
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language you use is really important,
and then how you check yourself on like
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why are we doing those things?
We're doing the underlying why. It's really
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valuable to to come back to and
that's something as a marketing team here at
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sweet fish that we've been doing,
thinking about our purpose and and our why
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and how we go to markets.
So that was I'm really glad you brought
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up content based networking and I also
think it's just when it comes to a
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b m even though we do have
a bit of that play, I don't
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know that we would talk about it
quite like that because we care more about
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the people that were actually interacting with
it. Actually, it's it's so strange
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to me. I actually do not
give a crap if someone coming on to
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be to be growth. I literally
wrote a book about building relationships with your
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ideal buyers, but I could not
care less whether or not they end up
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buying from us or not. And
that's it sounds so weird, but,
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like I just I know all the
other benefits that come from that. The
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00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.440
affinity that gets built when you get
to have a meaningful, you know,
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00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.119
minute conversation with somebody, learning about
their family, like, learning about what
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00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.200
their points of you are, how
they see the market, like the growth
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00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:08.759
for me that I've experienced by now
forming relationships with hundreds, if not thousands,
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00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:12.440
of our ideal buyers. It has
allowed us to iterate on our service,
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00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:17.279
it's allowed me to figure out pricing
things. They've connected me to other
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00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:22.559
people in their network, like there's
just so many benefits beyond that one specific
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00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.559
person becoming a client of sweet fish. But you have to go into it
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00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:29.599
with that mentality or if you don't, people see right through it. Marketing
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00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:34.240
takes courage and need good marketing.
Obviously you're getting close to your clients and
440
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.720
you're understanding their pain. We talked
about all these things. It sounds Cliche,
441
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:41.319
but that's ultimately what we're driving at
right now too, is like this
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00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.240
is just another way of understanding where
they're actually at and being able to add
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00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.759
something of value. So that's that's
crucial. Dan, final thoughts here as
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00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.359
we're starting to wrap up today.
You know, I'm looking back through the
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00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.039
list of all these different trends and
some part of me wants to say,
446
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.440
like you know, it really takes
a sermon to know which ones are the
447
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.000
better ones. But at the same
time, even even if some trends are
448
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.799
more powerful than others, I think
the thing that actually works the most is
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00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.240
just going all in on just one
or two or just picking a few and
450
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:14.160
just like staying the course for longer
than you think, going way harder than
451
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.000
you know, and it's usually takes
ten times the amount of work then you
452
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:21.839
think it's going to take. Blogging, it doesn't work on one blog a
453
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.680
week. You literally have to put
in ten times more, or maybe at
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00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:27.559
least fifteen a month. It's just
a lot. Like you have to put
455
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:32.559
in way more podcast episodes for your
podcast to drive the massive results you're hoping
456
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:36.079
I can't say the same for Chat
Bots, since that's an automated feature.
457
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:38.920
Like for most of these like you
just have to go harder or spend way
458
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:42.440
more time learning how to perfect it
before you can actually expect it to drive
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00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:47.400
zero, like a lot of results. So I think you can honestly win
460
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.680
with any of these things, as
long as you just stay focused, become
461
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.319
a master at it. But you
have to dedicate yourself to the journey of
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00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.039
mastering how to do the thing.
Even chat bots Dan like. If you
463
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:02.759
go deep enough in chat bots and
you're customizing each experience based on what page
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00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.480
they landed on, based on the
source of how they ended up coming there,
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00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.319
there's so many different journeys. So
even within chatbots, if that was
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00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.960
your focus, you could become exceptional
at chatbots. You're right. If anybody's
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00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.519
listening to that and you're like,
oh, that's me, reach out,
468
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:23.279
I'll do a whole episode with you. I want to see you. I
469
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.960
just haven't seen more. Now I
think of like playing guitar and like playing
470
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.480
shows, that music is like something
in my background, and I think about,
471
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:34.039
like what they would tell me.
Once you've played a song so much
472
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.319
that you're sick of it, then
like that's right when you like in a
473
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.519
church setting, right like that's when
the congregation is finally understanding the lyrics.
474
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.240
They're finally they're finally like, Oh, I remember this one. It's the
475
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.200
same thing with like expressing your unique
P O v in a market, right
476
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:53.000
like we're on linkedin saying essentially the
same things over and over and over again,
477
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:57.000
trying to package it just slightly different
so we're not just straight up repeating
478
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:01.680
ourselves. But right as we're getting
sick of it is probably when some people
479
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:07.839
are finally starting to get it.
And so being like thinking about that and
480
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.920
just being like okay, even if
I'm sick of this method or this approach
481
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:15.039
or this medium, like I'm barely
getting my message across, because it's like,
482
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.240
for a second in their day it's
like like beat the same drum over
483
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.000
and over and over again and when
you're unsure, like maybe I've done this
484
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.039
too much, maybe just try to
like a couple more times. I think
485
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:30.039
that's one of the key takeaways from
from this and as we think about trends,
486
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.920
like something to to take away.
Well, it's been a really fascinating
487
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.920
conversation. I love this one because
it is so subjective and there's I'm sure
488
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.240
there's some things that people are listening
and they're disagreeing with. So if there's
489
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.599
something you disagree with or something you
want to add to the list of trends
490
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.200
right now that you're just like frustrated
by, I feel free to reach out
491
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:50.480
to James Dan Myself over on Linkedin. We'd love to hear from you.
492
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.240
We'll be back next week with another
one of these original research episodes and keep
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00:32:54.279 --> 00:33:10.720
doing work that matters. We're always
excited to have conversations with leaders on the
494
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:15.920
front lines of marketing. If there's
a marketing director or a chief marketing officer
495
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.440
that you think we need to have
on the show, reach out email me,
496
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.599
Benji dot block at Sweet Fish Media
Dot Com. I look forward to
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00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:23.160
hearing from you.