The Marketing Channel You Can’t Overlook | Original Research

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:18.079 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth Welcoming 2 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:25.000 Friends. Today is our third episode and UH series that we've been doing around 3 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:30.160 original research from last year. So we sat down with a hundred marketing leaders. 4 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:35.520 We asked fifteen original research questions to just get a sense of where B 5 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:39.159 two B marketing teams are at. And today what we want to do is 6 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:46.439 we want to tackle the findings from this question what is your most successful marketing 7 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:51.880 channel? If you're interested in what we found that was most marketing team's biggest 8 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:55.520 struggle or the metric that your CEO checks most often, you can actually find 9 00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:00.240 those previous episodes right here in our B two B Growth podcast feed and tell 10 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:04.959 you man worth checking out some great conversations, great remedies for some of these 11 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.760 things. And UH excited for this third installment today. And I do want 12 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:15.319 to give a shout out to the hundred marketing leaders and just say thank you 13 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.719 for sitting down with us, for giving us your time and your insights, 14 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:23.840 and glad to jump into this now. When I think of this question, 15 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:29.760 when I think of what's our most successful marketing channel, I think our marketing 16 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:33.480 team here as far as time here at sweet Fish, we spend a lot 17 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:38.120 of time on organic social efforts. It's on things like B two B growth 18 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.760 like this podcast. However, I would not say that that is our most 19 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.599 successful channel. And uh, I looked through our findings and actually what I 20 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:52.319 think is I tend to agree with the majority on this one. But logan, 21 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:56.280 I'll ask you first, what do you see as our most successful marketing 22 00:01:56.359 --> 00:02:00.439 channel, and then what leads you to the conclusion that you have. Yeah, 23 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.599 I would say LinkedIn is definitely up there for us. You know, 24 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:08.560 Emily Brady on our team has done a fantastic job overseeing multiple iterations of our 25 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:15.319 evangelist program. So often people are aware of sweet Fish for a long time 26 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:19.759 through LinkedIn before they engage with us. It's interesting sometimes, you know, 27 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.759 we'll see someone new come into our pipeline. I'm like, oh, I 28 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.719 recognize them because they've commented on on posts and I've connected with them and I've 29 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.280 seen them, you know, engage with one of Dan's posts or one of 30 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:35.840 the Emily's posts or something like that. So LinkedIn has been consistently a channel 31 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.439 organic LinkedIn that is that has driven a lot of results for us as a 32 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:44.280 team. M. James, What are your thoughts here? So as we 33 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:49.919 we implemented self reported attribution probably about four or five months ago, and it's 34 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.479 been really interesting for me to see because I would have said something very similar 35 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:58.919 to what Logan just said. I would have thought that LinkedIn drives the bulk 36 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.759 of our of our inbound but after implementing self reported attribution, we got it 37 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:07.560 tied into Slack. So every time we get an inbound lead, it shows 38 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:12.520 up in our wins channel on our company Slack, and over and over and 39 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:17.000 over and over again. It seems like seven out of ten inbound requests that 40 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:23.000 we get are coming from somebody saying some version of Google online search. I 41 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:28.439 mean, people are finding us on Google. And so it feels weird to 42 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:34.039 say that this seems a little bit like a contrarian take because Chris Walker has 43 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.840 really been pounding home this point that people don't search, people don't use Google 44 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:43.800 the way that all these brands think they use Google. And and I think, 45 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.680 just based on my own experience and in owning a business that's seeing we're 46 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.159 doing all this stuff Chris is saying to do, We're we've gotta Obviously, 47 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:59.199 we're very passionate about podcasting and doing organic LinkedIn, but overwhelmingly the opportunities were 48 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.599 getting coming to us are coming from Google. I think the work that Dan 49 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:08.360 from our team did about a year and a half ago really catapulted us from 50 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:12.199 a search perspective, and I'm super grateful for that. Yeah, we're gonna 51 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.800 talk more about this a little bit later, but overwhelmingly in our in our 52 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.079 self reported attribution, people are finding us on Google. Yeah, it's interesting. 53 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:25.680 I saw a post from Mashanella earlier today and it's like old media versus 54 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:29.519 new media in marketing today and I'm like, yes, yes, yes, 55 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:31.839 And he had se O under their as old media and I was like, 56 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.279 well, you know, if you can do it right, and if you 57 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:41.439 can do it where you move the lever enough, We're all about everything he 58 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:46.759 categorized as new media, organic social, you know, taking advantage of new 59 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.519 channels. We tried Clubhouse before it flamed out. Really for for B two 60 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:55.319 B we've got people active on TikTok. Obviously we're big on podcasting. And 61 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.879 I'm like, yes, everything about new media, but wait, there are 62 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:02.040 some things in the unquote old media that can still be big levers. If 63 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.360 you do them the right way, and I think that's something we're gonna touch 64 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:09.920 on here. So it has been really enlightening for me as well. As 65 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:15.040 James described our journey in looking at our self reported attribution and kind of looking 66 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.600 at it through that lens of old media versus new media. Wish I would 67 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:20.639 agree with matt On for the most part and what he posted this morning on 68 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:26.959 LinkedIn you The question isn't what is the most successful marketing channel? It's what 69 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.319 is your most successful marketing channel? And I think that is important to think 70 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:35.480 about because you could double down on just about any channel, get really smart 71 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:39.040 about how you do it, and you could start to see success there. 72 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:45.199 But when we ask, the majority said organic search. So I'm looking at 73 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:47.720 the numbers, and again granted there's been some time since this was done, 74 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:53.000 but organic social was like five point six percent of our results compared to on 75 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:58.399 organic search, and so that social is awesome, it's wonderful. But when 76 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:01.319 you're thinking about your streng rategy and what you want to double down on, 77 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.399 I still think there's a lot to be said about organic search. I would 78 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:10.920 say the key results from our findings, organic search was overwhelmingly more popular than 79 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:15.800 any other answer, and several of our respondents actually did list multiple channels because 80 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:20.399 they're not just focusing on organic search like Logan, I'm glad you said that 81 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:26.720 because you can see results in multiple places and it's not like old verse new. 82 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.319 Don't pick anything in the old category only goes a new Like if you're 83 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:35.279 seeing success somewhere, you should continue that while also venturing into those newer things, 84 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:40.959 which we are are totally doing and we're we're evangelizing that right. Yeah, 85 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:46.240 and it's also true which maths comment back to my comment was, yeah, 86 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:49.199 but most teams have to pick a few otherwise they're not gonna be able 87 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:55.160 to do multiple channels well if they have this mixture of old media and new 88 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.480 media, which goes back to the previous episode we did in this series on 89 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:02.319 focus being the biggest struggle for most marketing teams. Again, like you just 90 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.519 said there, Benji, was one of the things we talked about in that 91 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:10.600 episode is you've got to prioritize what's working and then stack those and then decide 92 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.639 where you draw the line. Right, there are some new media things we're 93 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.480 not going to get to. There are some things old media that are still 94 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.959 driving results and maybe s e O and organic search is still above the line. 95 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:24.759 Okay, we're gonna do that, and we're also going to have a 96 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:29.120 phenomenal podcasting strategy at the same time. Yeah, when you bucket our strategy, 97 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.439 I think you would go like where we are still prioritizing search organic search. 98 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.879 We definitely prioritize organic social, and I would I would put podcasting in 99 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.079 on that one. And then when I'm looking at the rest and going, 100 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:45.079 we're testing paid search or paid like LinkedIn ads, so it's still paid social, 101 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:46.720 I guess, but those would be like the three Is there anything I'm 102 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.639 missing their James, anything you would add. Yeah, we also tested paid 103 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:56.839 search, so we started running Google ads recently to really not great results. 104 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.800 We're gonna turn down that spend and turn up our spend on paid social, 105 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.319 specifically paid LinkedIn, because we we are starting to see some some early indicators 106 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.279 that we're having some success with paid social, but paid search for whatever reason, 107 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:13.600 has not moved the needle for us. I think We've been running it 108 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:18.040 for about three or four months, and so I think with a lot of 109 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.519 people running to search when the stuff that's happening in the recession started happening. 110 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.680 Chris Walker was saying this, I mean, he was like, everybody is 111 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:31.600 going to go into captured demand channels, and and search is obviously a captured 112 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.080 demand channel. Where you should be investing is creating that demand, and so 113 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.320 that we're we're trying to create that demand with our paid social strategy on LinkedIn 114 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.759 as well as our organic social strategy. It's interesting because I'm just reading through 115 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:46.320 all the numbers here, so I'll just list it all off one more time. 116 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:54.039 Organic search, paid search was thirteen, virtual events and webinars, direct 117 00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:01.679 email was nine percent, paid social five six, organic social five point six. 118 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.440 And it jumped out at me being in this you know, B two 119 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:09.360 B growth podcast space, how many of the things on this list could be 120 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.559 driven If driven by the fact that you have a podcast, you could create 121 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:20.000 virtual events because you have community there. Yeah, you classified podcasting as organic 122 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:24.879 social, but I think podcasting is really more about your content strategy overall. 123 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:31.639 It's how you create the content that actually fuels all of the distribution, and 124 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.519 so you could think about it in a lot of different ways. I actually 125 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.960 heard an episode this morning on Christopher Lockhead's podcast, Lockhead of Marketing, and 126 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:45.120 he was talking about this idea of content free marketing. And I was actually 127 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:46.960 telling Emily on our team about this this morning on our one oh one, 128 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:52.480 But he said, so many, so many brands. It's over a billion 129 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:54.679 dollar industry, the content marketing industry. Um, I want to say he 130 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.039 said something like seventy one billion. It was like an insane number. I 131 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.200 could be off on that, so don't quote me. But they talked about 132 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:05.120 how big the industry is and how much of the industry are these tools that 133 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.480 help you with distribution of content. But the problem is that these brands are 134 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:15.960 putting out what he calls this content free marketing. What they're saying lacks substance. 135 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.639 They're just they're dribbling on, cobbling together what everybody else is saying, 136 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.279 and trying to make it sound like it's their own thought and it's and it's 137 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.679 this unique take. And the reality is it's like they're just using buzzwords and 138 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:33.960 jargon and and dribbling on nothing that's actually going to transform the way someone thinks 139 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.080 it's it's definitely not going to give somebody an unfair advantage in the work that 140 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:41.120 they do. And so I think the way you look at whether it's podcast 141 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.440 or or YouTube or whatever content that you're creating that you're saying, this is 142 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.159 gonna be our pillar content. You've you've got to put an enormous amount of 143 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.960 thought into what what goes like, what's the hook, what's the angle? 144 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.440 What are you trying to say because the distribution of that doesn't really matter if 145 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.080 if there's no substance. And what you're saying, So I love that is 146 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.320 flockhead is so like minded in the way we think about that as well. 147 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.679 Yeah, that's a good distinction that you made there too, because it really 148 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.240 isn't like podcasting isn't really organic social. It's about strategy of how like they 149 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.279 could fit into so many of these Let's go to some key findings that we're 150 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.320 drawing from these results, and I'll go first here. But I think the 151 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.960 main one and this is like the no brainer that will kick us off with. 152 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.200 But if you're a B two B marketing leader and you want to know 153 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.360 what channel your peers and your competitors are focused on, it is still organic 154 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:39.159 search, Like there are definitely a plenty of players there, and I we 155 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.080 thought it was interesting because when we asked another question on this survey, we 156 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.639 had asked if you could ask one question to a hundred of your peers and 157 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.159 B two B marketing leadership, one question, what would you ask them? 158 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:58.240 And the most popular answer was around organic search strategy. So people are still 159 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.919 actively thinking on this and going, Okay, what's the best way to do 160 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.080 this? And uh that to me when you think old way, new way, 161 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.799 logan to just keep using that language. It's like you can call it 162 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.360 old way, but clearly there's people thinking and dreaming up new ways to do 163 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.240 it. I think Benji to one thing that I've I've heard, Oh bed 164 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.720 On, I've not blanket on his last name right now, but he works 165 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.919 at a marketing agency called client Boost, and he does all kinds of creative 166 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.840 content on LinkedIn. And one of his points of view is that content marketing 167 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:37.960 does not equal blogging, like content marketing is so much more than just writing 168 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:43.000 blog posts. But even I've I've seen some of the Folks and Animals, 169 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.919 which are like one of the most incredible like blog writing agencies in the world. 170 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.799 They position themselves as a content marketing agency, but really what they're really 171 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:52.759 good at is writing blog posts. So when you see folks from the Animals 172 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:56.960 team talking about content marketing, what they're really talking about is organic search. 173 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.080 They're talking about writing blog posts that end up ranking for these keywords. So 174 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.240 it's so much in our in our language as marketers, because HubSpot did such 175 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:11.360 a brilliant job of building the inbound the category of inbound marketing, we just 176 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.519 we talk about it like they are one thing. We talk about content marketing 177 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.919 and blogging as if they are the same thing. The reality is there that 178 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.080 they're not. And I think you're seeing more modern marketers step into the game, 179 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.000 like Chris Walker, like like Dave Gearhardt. You're seeing folks like Emily 180 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:31.320 Brady on our team really start to stretch the boundaries of what modern content marketing 181 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.840 looks, like Todd Klauss Refined Labs. You're seeing a lot more creativity and 182 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:39.399 the content that's being created, and that's really exciting. But it also makes 183 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.519 sense to me why so many of the marketers we talked to are curious about 184 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.840 organic search, because I think it gets conflated with content marketing in general. 185 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:52.639 There is that correlation to a similar one I I saw recently was I was 186 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.639 like, Hey, everybody's talking about building a media company and not a marketing 187 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:01.799 team. What you need is former journalists or at least people with journalistic skills. 188 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:03.120 And a lot of people pushed back and they're like, oh, it's 189 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.759 not just about writing. I was like, I didn't just say writing journalism. 190 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:13.639 There's interviewing, their storytelling. There's research their story finding, right, 191 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.240 maybe a cooler way to say research. And those are all the skills that 192 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.480 make up, you know, the things that I was exposed to in in 193 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.759 journalism school. But so often people think, oh, journalism, that means 194 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.759 copyrighting, that means like a reporter, right, And some people are like, 195 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.639 oh, no, we don't need CNN and Fox News. Hankerson B 196 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.360 two B marketing. I'm like, that's not what I'm talking about. It 197 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:39.159 was just interesting that that tying those two together when yes, they were talking 198 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:43.440 about elements of journalism, but that wasn't the whole thing. Same thing with 199 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.879 organic search not being the whole thing of content marketing. It is a it 200 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.240 is a part of it. It's kind of like going back to asking people, 201 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:56.120 are content marketing and inbound marketing synonymous or is one subset of the other. 202 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.919 You get all sorts of different answers on that too. I would agree. 203 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.600 We do not need Fox and CNN coming into B two B marketing. 204 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.200 I'm cool with that, but that's not even what we're talking about. So 205 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:11.600 just grasp that. I think there's such a need for like innovation in how 206 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.960 we think. And because social was growing at the same time that blogging was 207 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.720 growing, people thought about them like, oh, we have our content people 208 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.279 over here in blog world, and we have people that are exploring Facebook and 209 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.720 Instagram. But they were so young and they were babies that people didn't think 210 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.360 about that as content. And now we're in the merger where it's like, 211 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.279 well TikTok is where how people are searching, and it's like all this endless 212 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.480 thinking and I'm grateful for all those the people that have put thought behind it, 213 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.799 seeing the merging happening and doing shows like this where we're talking about it 214 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:50.120 because there's categories that are being redefined and thought of, and like in real 215 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.919 time, we're making those pivots happen. So it makes sense how we were 216 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.080 separate and now we're coming together. Yeah, and one of those things that 217 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.240 evolved, and I think this was a point in Matt's post I mentioned earlier, 218 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.519 or maybe it was somewhere else. But as the rise of blogging and 219 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.639 the rise of social happened, it was like, oh, well, social 220 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.240 is your tool to drive people to your blog because your blog is where they 221 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.960 convert. No, that is now no longer working right for a number of 222 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.759 reasons user behavior. People don't want to be on a platform and be driven 223 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:25.759 over here because they have other posts that they can consume that are entertaining them 224 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.399 or educating them without having to follow the link to go to your blog or 225 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.879 sign up for your webinar or attend your virtual event. And so that evolution, 226 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.480 I think is really important. We used to see social as a way 227 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.759 to promote people back to your blog to actually consume the content, because that 228 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:48.159 was the way the original inbound funnel worked. No longer, you have to 229 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.519 optimize for delivering content on each channel. It doesn't mean that it can't work 230 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.480 with your blog strategy. We have some massive blog posts that perform really well 231 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.919 on organic search. We can break those up in a hundred different ways. 232 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.799 Emily can do a funny TikTok video breaking down how not to do podcast intros 233 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.279 on this one blog post where we breakdown doing podcast intros well that performs really 234 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:17.480 well on our gimmicks search but the purpose of that video isn't to drive people 235 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.279 to that blog, right, but they are working together but in a different 236 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:26.200 way than they did before. It's a great renegotiation in our minds because even 237 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.640 allowing yourself to take a blog post repurpose it over on LinkedIn, not even 238 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:34.240 linked to the blog post, but just have written content or create a video 239 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.519 off of that. Like, we're ten steps ahead right now and what we're 240 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:42.440 saying compared to where most B two B companies are are at. I literally 241 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.119 was talking to waltz Are, one of our producers here at sweet Fish this 242 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.759 morning on Mike Club, about this very thing logan that you're hitting on. 243 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:56.839 It's just we have to realize it's not just about like redistributing content or saying 244 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.359 the same thing over and over again. It's like this thing also in forms 245 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.880 this thing that we're doing. We can talk about it again over here, 246 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.519 we can try it in a different format, and like the more creative you 247 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:12.000 get there around some key core messages than you're informing your ideal clients in a 248 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:17.000 number of ways. I love that we pulled out a few more key findings 249 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.400 Logan, what was what was something that stood out to you from this research. 250 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:26.039 I thought it was interesting that the prioritization on organic search. I think 251 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.160 one of the things behind that is that it can be a short term investment 252 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:36.279 that has compounding ur o I. So that sounds very jargony and buzzworthy, 253 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.400 but like to break that down into an actual application. James mentioned that earlier, 254 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.000 about a year year and a half ago, we identified some keywords we 255 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:48.240 wanted to rank four. We used methodology called Google Alphabet soup, where we 256 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:53.160 actually try to write better than what is currently on page one, not looking 257 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:59.640 necessarily at all the tactical elements that most people prioritize in their SEO and organic 258 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.480 search strategies, but looking at how do we write something that is better for 259 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.480 a human that would click on this, What would make them click on this? 260 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.319 Did they not provide enough examples? Did they not expand enough? Was 261 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:14.759 there something that's outdated that we can update right? And I don't know how 262 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.519 many, but it was. It was a handful of keywords that we targeted. 263 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.720 We spent some time writing those blog posts. Eventually they ranked after a 264 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.640 few weeks, a few months, and they're still driving organic search in the 265 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.880 way that people are finding us today, and I would say that even though, 266 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.440 as James said earlier, organic searches driving a lot of inbound there's not 267 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.359 a lot that we're doing day to day right now to maintain and grow that 268 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:42.400 organic search. Now, will those of those blog posts that are ranking stay 269 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.799 there forever? No, we know that, but it can be kind of 270 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.680 this, all right, let's put some effort here for a quarter and then 271 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:53.160 we'll reap the rewards for a while while we prioritize some other things, some 272 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.319 of those new media things that were doing podcasting and TikTok and and other things. 273 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.839 So that that's something that I think other marketing teams are seeing and why 274 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.960 probably organic search is still in the mix because you can have this all right, 275 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.960 let's put some time here and then we'll see some long tail kind of 276 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.160 slow burn results over time. Yeah, that's that's a big one. I 277 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.279 like that, Logan and James, any thoughts. There are other key findings 278 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.960 that stick out to you? Yeah. The thing that stick out to me, 279 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.680 I mean it just just how much these marketers are investing in organic search. 280 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.079 There is several respondents in this research that we did that said that they 281 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.079 devoted over half of their resources to organic search, which is really really interesting. 282 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.880 I think it doubles down on what Logan was saying that it's an evergreen 283 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.160 channel you can write. You know, we focused a lot of effort for 284 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:49.279 about six months to a year on ranking for some very specific keywords related to 285 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.960 be to be podcasting, and here we are, you know, several months 286 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:59.160 a year plus later on some of these articles. They're still driving highly qualified 287 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.839 traffic to our site to find us. And so I think when you look 288 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.559 at organic traffic, not just from a I think a lot of people crap 289 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.480 on it because, oh, it's transactional. People are only using Google to 290 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.160 find these transactional things. But you can. People are using Google to find 291 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:19.440 transactional answers to questions that they have. But you can, and we're gonna 292 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.759 touch on a little bit this of this later in the episode, but you 293 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.400 can use that transactional need that someone has whenever they go to Google searching for 294 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:32.720 something, and if you can deliver a page to them that answers that transactional 295 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:37.400 question but also treats them like a human and inject your brand, your voice 296 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:42.200 into that search result, it's gonna be a lot stickier we're gonna get into 297 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:48.839 some I think some more specific things that you can do to humanize these articles 298 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.960 that you're writing specifically to rank on search. But yeah, that was that 299 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.079 was my key finding is is just marketers are spending a lot of money and 300 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.480 a lot of resources in this strategy, and they wouldn't be doing that if 301 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.559 it weren't working. I don't think, Man, it's interesting. I want 302 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.640 to get to two remedies in a second, but I want to have a 303 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.640 quick discussion before we just jump into Okay, what do we do as a 304 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.079 results of this, and just we can split ball some ideas. But when 305 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:21.319 you think of organic search, James, informing the content that you create, 306 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.359 what are some of the first things that come to mind? Like, oh, 307 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.160 this is because we were talking about podcasting earlier. We'll probably talk about 308 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.920 that and in the remedy section as well, But like, there's a million 309 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:34.400 different ways people can think of organic search informing content. What are the ways 310 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.079 that that immediately jump out to that you see as as interesting right now? 311 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.000 Yeah, So, I mean Logan mentioned Google off for that super earlier. 312 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:47.319 Essentially, what that is is you go to Google and you use Google Auto 313 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.960 suggest to tell you what people are actually searching for. So if we were 314 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:55.920 to put in, you know, B two B podcasting and then we you 315 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.640 know, hit the space bar and then hit the letter A, it would 316 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:02.680 be like B two B podcasting agencies, B two B podcasting assessment, B 317 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:07.039 two B podcasting analytics. And so that's telling us. Google is literally telling 318 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.160 us what people are searching for. And there's this big movement right now, 319 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.319 at least on LinkedIn of people you know, talking about talk to your customers. 320 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:15.559 Talk to your customers, talk to your customers. It's one of those 321 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.920 things that we we as marketers, we know we should be doing that, 322 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.880 but for whatever reason, we don't want to. It's hard, like it's 323 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.640 not necessarily something that comes naturally to a lot of people. But this strategy 324 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.559 of using Google alphabet soup, using Google's auto suggest you're effectively doing that. 325 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:37.519 Google is telling you what your prospective customers are searching for, what questions do 326 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.119 they want you to answer? And from a content marketing perspective, if your 327 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.000 goal is not to be the most helpful resource on the Internet for solving the 328 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.799 problems that your customers are trying to solve, as it relates to what you 329 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.039 do then something about your kind of marketing strategy is probably broken. And so 330 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:59.599 I think leveraging Google auto suggests specifically to tell you what pains are people feeling 331 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.519 and are they trying to solve with a transactional Google Search result that I think 332 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:08.039 has a massive impact in informing the content that you that you actually create. 333 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.359 It might start with a blog post, but you can create a wide variety 334 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.960 of of new media based on the fact that you have this insight now that 335 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.079 hey, there's a lot of people searching for you know this this particular thing. 336 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:25.359 Logan any thoughts on things you want to see people try, Like does 337 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:29.200 your curiosity get peaked at all when you go all right, like, what 338 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:33.640 would be the kind of content we could create to help our organic search? 339 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:38.640 What type of content we could create? I mean, it's been interesting the 340 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:44.119 types of things that you see come up in those Google auto suggests. And 341 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:48.920 I've seen people say like, oh, that doesn't seem all that scientific. 342 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.039 I use this tool on that tool, and like why wouldn't you go straight 343 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:56.039 to the source? Right, Like Google's job, their entire mission is to 344 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.200 make the Internet more searchable. They want to connect be like that's how they 345 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.400 make their money, right, it it's on advertising, but the way they 346 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:08.359 deliver on that is getting people from what they want to something that answers the 347 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:14.200 question right. And so to me it's been interesting. I think there's an 348 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:18.519 opportunity for a lot of teams to use that Google alphabet suit methodology to make 349 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:26.359 their their organic search drive better content because it's not Hey, this report of 350 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.000 of these keywords that some tool has spent out and says right, because I've 351 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.039 seen that. Who was I think it was rand Fishkin a spark Toro was 352 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.640 saying, like, uh, these numbers from Google Analytics, I'm not real 353 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:42.200 sure these you know, numbers about what traffic is coming here. I take 354 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.200 those with a grain of salt and right. And he's saying, takes something 355 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.480 from Google with a grain assault, And I'm saying, take this from Google, 356 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.359 not with as big a grain assault. So maybe there's a problem with 357 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.160 that, But I'm not saying from their from their data set. I'm saying, 358 00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:00.480 just go there as a user right where they're trying to off for things 359 00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.279 up based on what other people are searching. And so to me, I 360 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.640 think there's an opportunity for people to create more of the right content for their 361 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:15.519 audience using this methodology with Google alphabet soup and looking at Google Auto suggest and 362 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.720 you know, we're not crazy. I've seen other marketers I really respect, 363 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.640 like Gitano dinnerdy uh say. You know, scroll to the bottom and look 364 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.160 at the section on Google that says people also searched for right and create content 365 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.960 around those suggested additional questions. Because Google is doing that for a reason, 366 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.480 because there's volume there with the rise of short form video to I know, 367 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.440 Google is getting on board with like putting some videos at the top of your 368 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.680 search and like so you could see also how people have created content in different 369 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.440 mediums around these topics, which I think is super helpful. Yeah, I'm 370 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.359 glad you said that, because that's probably a better answer to your first question 371 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:57.359 of what new types of content could people create. YouTube is pushing shorts right 372 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:03.920 now because they are trying to keep up with with TikTok and Instagram reels, 373 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.559 and you know, there may be arguably a little bit late to that short 374 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.880 form video game. But if you're going to search and Google wants to give 375 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:17.920 you stuff on their platform with YouTube shorts, then maybe you should think about 376 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.079 some of those questions that you've been answering in your blog posts that are aimed 377 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.960 at organic search. Create short form videos, put those on your YouTube channel, 378 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.400 and see if those drive some As Google starts to put the YouTube shorts 379 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.759 higher up in search trick on the first page of the search results, it 380 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.480 might be a conversation for a different day. But you've got to think about 381 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:42.000 the fact that YouTube is owned by Google and they are easily the biggest competitor 382 00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:47.160 to TikTok at this point, and they're figuring out ways to pull shorts out 383 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.039 a long form video that are already on their platform, so they are by 384 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:56.279 far the biggest competitor to TikTok, Like forget about Instagram. YouTube shorts is 385 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.279 has so much potential because of how much video YouTube already has. And if 386 00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.880 YouTube as a platform figures out how to repurpose it and then make it searchable 387 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.839 on Google. I mean, that's a that's a completely different shift and in 388 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.920 mindset that we should be thinking about. As I know people listening are going 389 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.200 we gotta make video content. We're thinking about podcasting, We're thinking about all 390 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.359 these new things, these creative things. That's a really one that I would 391 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.920 advocate for it to be thinking on all right, let's go to two remedies 392 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:29.119 here, recommendations based on the results we've seen here talking about organic search, 393 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.359 and James all throw it over to you first. What's what's a remedy? 394 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.039 What's a recommendation based on the results. Yeah, So, seeing these results 395 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.240 and seeing how many marketers are investing in organic search, it just makes me 396 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:44.440 think that you should be using the traffic that is coming to your site for 397 00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:49.359 these pages that you've written content to rank for specific keywords on and obviously deliver 398 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:55.440 what they deliver, that answer, deliver what it is that the searcher is 399 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.640 is looking for. But I also think you should be thinking creatively about how 400 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.839 instead of just capitalizing that attention in that one moment, be thinking about how 401 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.799 you can drive that that user, that searcher to other channels where you're creating 402 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:17.359 maybe longer form content, you're creating video content, Maybe you're really push You 403 00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.480 know, your your CEO puts out really incredible content on LinkedIn, you might 404 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.279 be doing some stuff on TikTok. Think about how you can drive people to 405 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.599 other channels where they can subscribe, follow what you're doing that isn't reliant on 406 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.000 them needing to find you from a search result. So if you're you know, 407 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.319 you've got your list of keywords, be thinking about, like how can 408 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.400 I get somebody to subscribe to our YouTube channel on this post and figure out 409 00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.519 how to integrate that. The blog post itself doesn't need to be about a 410 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.559 specific you know, video that you put on YouTube or a specific episode that 411 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.359 you published for your podcast, but you can, I think, in an 412 00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.799 organic way, reference these other media channels that you're building. And if folks 413 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.039 get value from the content that you've created on that blog post, they are 414 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:10.279 likely gonna want to consume your content on other channels. And so I think 415 00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:15.359 that's a smart way to leverage the attention that you can get through organic search 416 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.319 and disseminate that attention, get that attention onto other platforms where you're also investing 417 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:25.240 resources to create content, and it took to help you build community across multiple 418 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.880 channels. Yeah, there's so much there. I wonder like how you would 419 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.039 want to set that up, Like James, in a perfect world, Let's 420 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:37.000 say someone clicks on one of our what we've been using blog posts as are 421 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.480 example, Right, we did the alphabet soup, we created this blog, 422 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.880 it hits home, it gives some answers to the searcher. You're let's say 423 00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.400 you're the searcher James, and you're going down and you're looking at this blog. 424 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.839 What what would you think you could put in there? It's just like 425 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.079 subscribe to our YouTube channels are a unique way you would do it. Like 426 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.480 what what would you advocate for? Yeah, there's if there's a specific thing 427 00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:02.960 that I talked about and one of the points that was related to a particular 428 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.119 episode on the show or a video that we did for YouTube, that's obviously 429 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.720 like a natural way to to connect to it. But then I also think 430 00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:14.799 you could just like, like I've seen some really well designed almost like banner 431 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.160 ads. I know people are are desensitized to that a little bit. But 432 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.839 because you're not selling a product, you're selling like you're selling content. I 433 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.400 mean, you're you're trying to get awareness to other content assets. I think 434 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:32.359 you could you could do some inlaid banner ads within or a banner ad singular. 435 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:34.359 You probably don't want to put too many in there that would point people 436 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:40.519 to another resource, So I think something visually that pops and that stands out 437 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.359 could be really effective there as well as uh, natural kind of links throughout 438 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.759 the content. You've got to be aware though that people when they're reading your 439 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.039 that blog post, especially if they came there because they're trying to fulfill a 440 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:56.799 transactional need that they have their skimming and so you've got to be really thoughtful 441 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.400 about That's why I say something visual that pops out and that really stands out, 442 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.559 because if someone's just scrolling, they're they're probably scrolling through a lot of 443 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:10.279 your back links to other things. Also like embedding YouTube video I mean that's 444 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.319 nothing nothing new. Like obviously embedding YouTube videos into your blog posts when they're 445 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:21.160 relevant and helpful, are going to help. But maybe visually calling something out 446 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.079 either above a bellow the video to get people to subscribe to your YouTube channel 447 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.640 as opposed to just embedding the videos. So those are a couple of ideas 448 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:36.599 there, Loogan, what would you say around remedies recommendations based on these findings, 449 00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:38.960 Yeah, I would say, you know, if you are going to 450 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:45.559 try and see results with organic search, you cannot optimize for the algorithm over 451 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:51.400 being human and trying to create content that resonates. You know, as I 452 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:55.720 mentioned previously with our blonging strategy, when we think about how are we going 453 00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:00.119 to create something that outranks what's currently on the first page Google for the keywords 454 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:06.839 that we're targeting. We are looking at how well does the do the results 455 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:12.079 that are currently on the first page of Google answer the question and provide value 456 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.880 to the human who typed in that keyword. And if that is driving your 457 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.519 strategy with organic search, you're going to see better results. Obviously, there 458 00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.799 are SEO best practices, and there are things that you need to to keep 459 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.240 in mind and super technical stuff like page load speed and those sorts of things. 460 00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.599 And I'm not saying throw that all out, but if if that's all 461 00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:36.720 your team or your SEO agency is thinking about, and then you read it 462 00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:38.759 and you're like, well, I would not want to read this, then 463 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:45.119 in my opinion, there's a huge miss there, because if you think about 464 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:51.000 reverse engineering, how can I answer this question better while covering the basis of 465 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.480 technically what you need to do to have that piece of content rank in search, 466 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.319 that is a much better way to approach it. And so you've got 467 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:06.160 to prioritize being human and the content resonating and answering the question possibly entertaining. 468 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.760 However, you know, you think about that for your niche and then the 469 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:15.280 technical aspects of of s c O. I think that structure of priorities is 470 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.639 going to lead to much greater results, much better content, and much greater 471 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:23.239 results and your organic search efforts. Yeah, I think on that one, 472 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:30.920 like the prioritization of content that resonates, it just has to be infused back 473 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.840 in in some way, like, yes, you're still looking to rank, 474 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:37.440 Yes you want to be high in search. But we use the example on 475 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.039 a episode. I can't even tell you how long ago it was, but 476 00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.280 I ran a marathon in December, and we talked about how, like if 477 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.639 I search for tips for running a marathon, the entire first page of Google 478 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:54.079 Organic search is the exact same blog article on ten different websites. Now, 479 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.119 their goal might be slightly different because they probably have ads that they're running, 480 00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.639 and so it kind of was like a win for them just to be on 481 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.079 the first page whatever. But like, if you think about how much commodity 482 00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.280 content is in that page, it's it's literally it's the same same bullet points, 483 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:15.360 so same ten steps, drink water, stretch right exactly, yes, 484 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.760 and it's all white noise. I couldn't tell you any of those brands, 485 00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.639 and then there's probably gonna be a company that's great at marketing, like a 486 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.920 Nike, who could say almost the same thing, but give you an entertainer 487 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.360 doing it, put it in video form, and it looks like they could 488 00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.360 do it right and they could add just enough of their point of view to 489 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.559 where it it wins. And I remember their brand because they actually figured out 490 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:43.440 a way to resonate and they figured out a way to be slightly different while 491 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.639 giving the answer that people want and the answer that people need. So that's 492 00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.760 a that's a big one, James, anything you want to throw in on 493 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.719 this point, because I feel like this is is one we definitely harp on 494 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.239 a lot because it's it's necessary to Yeah, it's in the other parts of 495 00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.519 the research that we did we actually found I think it was the question that 496 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:06.320 we we asked around, like what's an underrated B two B marketing tactic? 497 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.880 And something that people said pretty overwhelming. I don't know if it was the 498 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:14.000 number one answer for this, but it was alarming to see how many people 499 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.760 said it. They said, it's underrated to be more human and so you 500 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:24.079 know, it's things like writing like you talk and not taking yourself too, 501 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.880 seriously, not feeling like you've got to be buttoned up informal in the way 502 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.320 that you communicate externally. And so I think that matters here. I mean 503 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.039 it with with organic search, Um, you have this massive opportunity if you 504 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:42.840 can rank for a particular keyword to get ongoing traffic coming to your site. 505 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.679 But if they're coming to your site and there's nothing memorable there, even if 506 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.199 it did answer the question, I think Google's obviously gotten pretty good about you 507 00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.119 know, They're not gonna let you get to page one if you're not if 508 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.320 you're not delivering the goods right like, if you're not actually answering the question, 509 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.880 Google is not gonna put you there. So you've gotta be doing something 510 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.360 right to get there. But I think can we take it to the next 511 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:05.920 level creatively and go, Okay, once we have this attention on our site, 512 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.440 what can we do that is next level to to humanize our brand, 513 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.679 to to make people have affinity for our brand? How can we get people 514 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.079 to really like us and not just get what they came to get and bounce 515 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:21.599 off. Yeah. Ultimately, what we're saying like this is a good reminder 516 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.440 that you look for search or intent, you try to align to that, 517 00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:30.039 and then you bring We talked about this in the last time we got together, 518 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.239 guys, but like having a brand voice doc that shows like this is 519 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.000 what makes us unique, this is our outlook on the world. You bring 520 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:42.039 that brand voice to the table as well, and search or intent plus that, 521 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.719 like, that's that's the sweet spot, the one I wanted to highlight 522 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.840 two from these findings, I just was reminded over and over again, probably 523 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.119 because I live in B two B growth world and in podcast world, like 524 00:37:52.360 --> 00:38:00.239 podcasting is a fantastic organic search driver. And there's some ways that we've apped 525 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.320 into this, and there's some ways even as a podcast agency, that we 526 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.800 could be better at this. And you think of link building, I think 527 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.880 of guest appearances where we're giving the embed code for that episode to our guests 528 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.199 and they're putting it on their website. That's fantastic sharing your unique p o 529 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.840 V in a video, but then having that as an audio format, having 530 00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.760 that is written copy that then people can search for and they'll find not just 531 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.679 the long form article blog you wrote, but they now have a link where 532 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.079 they can hear your voice, they can see your face increased impressions. You're 533 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.960 using podcast content in other formats. So we have this conversation and then it 534 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.960 becomes a linked in text post or it becomes what There's a million different ways 535 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:51.079 that podcasting can be an organic search driver, and that excites me that like 536 00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:54.000 to just think through how people can use this as a as a strategy to 537 00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:00.079 aligned to search intent. Know, the type of content that your your ideal 538 00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:05.639 customer, your ideal client wants. They're searching for their pain, and then 539 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.760 you're creating it. You're making it highly personal like Logan was talking about, 540 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:13.519 and you're infusing your brand voice like this is the medium to do it. 541 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.360 That's that's my takeaway. I mean, for a bit there, Benji, 542 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:22.360 we even used Google off of that soup to actually drive what podcast topics should 543 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:28.320 be. So going going to Google, putting in particular keywords related to, 544 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.960 you know, some of what our clients did, and then going okay, 545 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:36.599 that's clearly something people are interested in. And then that informed that was the 546 00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.159 editorial stret I mean that that informed the content calendar and like what episodes we 547 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.480 actually created for their show. And so while you're also creating an article that 548 00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.559 you know is going to rank you're simultaneously creating rich media. Can I just 549 00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.719 say this as we wind down the conversation, I have slack open and I 550 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:59.480 just saw a new inbound booking with one of our sales folks, And how 551 00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:06.400 did you hear about us online search? Very timely and very fitting. We 552 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:12.000 almost don't need an outro. We should just end it right there. I 553 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.079 love it. Thanks for sharing that, Logan. Well. We hope that 554 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.559 this has been an insightful conversation. I know I continue to learn a lot 555 00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.840 from this. I love seeing the results from this research and getting to break 556 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.079 it down here on B two B Growth. If you ever have a question, 557 00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.679 if you want to reach out talk to us, you can search for 558 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:34.239 James Logan myself over on LinkedIn and we would appreciate a conversation with you. 559 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:38.400 And uh we'll be back next week with another one of these original research episodes. 560 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:54.000 Thanks for listening, everybody, and keep doing work that matters. We're 561 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:59.199 always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If 562 00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.000 there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to 563 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:07.480 have on the show, reach out email me Benji dot Block at sweet fish 564 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.079 media dot com. I look forward to hearing from you