The 10 Mistakes Orgs Make with Thought Leadership Marketing, with Bill Sherman

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.960 Today on B two B growth, we are sharing a featured conversation from our 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.919 archive, with over two thousand episodes released. We want to resurface episodes worth 3 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.599 another listen. Before we jump in, just want to say I would love 4 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.720 to connect and hear from you on Linkedin. You can search Benji walk over 5 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.839 there and that's a great place to also interact with sweet fish and B two 6 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:32.880 B growth. All right, let's jump into today's featured conversation, conversations from 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:39.920 the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. Bill. 8 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.439 I wanted to start off with asking you like, how did you even get 9 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.759 into this topic, like how did this become a focus for you? Well, 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.280 if you ask most people how they get into thought leadership, they sort 11 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:53.679 of usually answer they got there accidentally, and my story is very much the 12 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:59.920 same. I would describe myself as a practitioner of this thought leadership field as 13 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.840 something unplanned. I did school and undergraduate in English and theater. I was 14 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:10.519 doing organizational consulting and I thought I was going to be a consultant in organizational 15 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:15.400 transformation and then I had a c level executive large company the early two thousands 16 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:18.840 who said Hey, I wrote this business book. It got on the cover 17 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:22.359 of Fast Company. People are asking me what to do with it and how 18 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.120 they can apply the ideas. Can you help? And from there I stumbled 19 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:32.480 into a sort of a word of mouth referral where various exacts would go, 20 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.920 Oh, you wrote a book, Go talk to Bill. And it was 21 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:42.560 a sideline for a while and but it became a passion and really what I 22 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:46.400 saw is the through line of my career is taking ideas through scale. Right, 23 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:51.079 how do you take an idea this scale within the organization or beyond the 24 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:57.200 organization? And so, since it's been my full time focus, probably one 25 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:00.159 of my favorite things about marketing and why I'm even attracted thought leadership at all, 26 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.400 is because I want to see the good ideas fly, you know, 27 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.040 you want to see the good things get out there, and usually it just 28 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:09.639 needs a little marketing ferry dust to thought leadership is usually the kind of marketing 29 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:15.319 you put into ideas. Um, the usually those ideas come with stories, 30 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.360 come with people and characters, Um, and thought leaders behind those ideas. 31 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.520 So, uh, I certainly no. That's one of the reasons why I 32 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.400 got into and it sounds like you fell in love with the topic for a 33 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:30.280 similar reason, trying to get those ideas, trying to give legs two ideas. 34 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:35.360 But a number of people try to do that and fail. So as 35 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:42.000 you've gone from Organization Organization, have provided like coaching and services around helping people 36 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:46.520 do thought leadership better. What are you have? I know you sent me 37 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:50.479 over ahead of time. What are like the ten biggest mistakes you see people 38 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:54.240 make is they try to go into this thought leadership marketing endeavor. So let's 39 00:02:54.280 --> 00:03:00.080 start with how the thought leadership function gets created. And I described thought leadership 40 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:07.439 as a function separate from content marketing or executive communications or even classical B two 41 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:10.560 B marketing, which I know is the focus here. It's a tool in 42 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:15.199 the subset. And so the first question is who's going to be the executive 43 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:20.199 champion? That might be the head of marketing, that could be someone in 44 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:23.479 ops. I know of large organizations where the champion is the C I o 45 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:29.080 who said we need to do thought leadership. So there's no consistent role. 46 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:32.599 But step number one. If you don't have an executive champion who understands what 47 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:36.879 this is, you're going to struggle. And does it need to be a 48 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:39.120 champion and or does it need when you say executive champion. Does it need 49 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:44.599 a champion on the C suite? It should be either the VP or the 50 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.400 C suite, someone who, at the end of the day, is willing 51 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:53.360 to invest the time and effort in something which is not going to produce immediate 52 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.479 results in sixty days. You're standing up a business function when you're setting up 53 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.319 ahead of thought leadership and you have to have some patients. So is it 54 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:05.400 usually the CMO or is it usually whoever is in charge of the whoever is 55 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:10.280 the head of the subject matter experts at that organization? It depends. So, 56 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.560 as I said, I can think of C I o s who have 57 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:16.040 championed it. I can think of CEOS who have championed it. It depends 58 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:21.160 on who gets it and realizes this is a distinct thing. Nobody has taken 59 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:28.160 really yet a class and thought leadership at B school, and so it's it's 60 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.279 more someone gets the idea that they need to do something different to deepen a 61 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:39.959 relationship with customers or to drive conversations when you're not in a sales mode, 62 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:44.160 or influence how people think and act and they say, Oh, what can 63 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.079 we do? Well, that's the leadership. Great. How do we stand 64 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:51.519 that up. So there we go. Number one, lack of clear executive 65 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:57.839 champion. Who is that at your organization? What's number two? Number two 66 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:03.319 is ahead of the leadership. WHO's unclear on the role? And so number 67 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:06.720 two and number three go together. But let's talk about the role of the 68 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:12.879 head of thought leadership. Many organizations don't tag someone and say congratulations, your 69 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.480 full time head of thought leadership. There are some big organizations that are doing 70 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:21.519 that now, but many cases it's a percentage of your time and you've got 71 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.040 to make sure that that person knows what you're asking them to do, they 72 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:30.360 understand how it fits what what they do sevent of the time and it has 73 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:35.600 to be tied to how they're motivated and evaluated and compensated. Because if at 74 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:40.759 the end of the year those were end handle thought leadership, but it's not 75 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:46.040 tied to performance, it doesn't get done period right. So usually what you 76 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.040 need to do is the person who's sponsoring the idea, the idea, whether 77 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:51.839 it's on the c suite or the VP of marketing, says hey, I 78 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:57.120 want you to handle thought leadership and usually there's a moment where the person looks 79 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.519 at the end sort of has a blank eyed look and is what's that and 80 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:04.959 what does that mean for my career? And that leads us to point number 81 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.639 three. Alright, so moving on to that point. Yeah, so the 82 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:15.279 head of thought leadership needs to see it as an opportunity because, rather than 83 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.839 being sent to Siberia, if they think that they're going to be exiled and 84 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.920 you know this isn't an opportunity for growth for them, then they're gonna go. 85 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.879 What didn't I do well in the organization? Why are you putting me 86 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:32.199 in this cubby hole over here that's brand new, has no infrastructure and I'm 87 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:38.000 sweating to try and get time, budget, resources and help right. They've 88 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.759 got to understand it's important. And one example I can give head of thought 89 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:46.199 leadership at a major financial institution. He had the talk, had a sea 90 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.360 level exact come in and say, and he was head of strategy, came 91 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.040 in and said we want you to run thought leadership and he's like, is 92 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:56.879 my career being sidelined? What's going on right? Thinks about it at home 93 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:04.560 and then agrees to take the all and within about four months is working on 94 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:11.639 a project where the head of the company is speaking after the president in the 95 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:16.519 West wing of the White House. Okay, and so with that that individual 96 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.319 comes into the head of thought leadership's office and goes, yeah, I'm used 97 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:26.800 to big opportunities all the time, this one's special. Let's make sure we 98 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.879 do it right. And so you have to when you're standing up that person 99 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:34.439 into the role, you have to convince them this is good for their career 100 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:40.079 as well as good for the organization. I find thought leadership. I imagine 101 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:44.439 this probably gets handed the most to content marketers, or gets handed often to 102 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:47.319 content marketers. Where who do you who? Usually it's often content marketers. 103 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:51.480 So if you were to map where people come from, is heads of thought 104 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:57.680 leadership. Content marketers tend to be accidental. They stumble into thought leadership and 105 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.800 start doing it and someone in marketing says, I don't know what you're doing 106 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:03.240 over here, but do more of it because it seems to be working right. 107 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:09.240 Others get recruited in. Executive Communications is another path. Strategy is another 108 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:15.279 path. I've seen people in public policy get handed a head of thought leadership 109 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:20.319 function as well, sometimes from the line sales. Engineering also gets this as 110 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.720 well because they understand the customer and they've engaged with the customer sometimes you'll see 111 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.759 it from an evangelist role as well, especially in tech. It seems to 112 00:08:31.799 --> 00:08:39.080 me like if anybody's in content marketing, this is a promotion. Essentially you've 113 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.279 been handed like the court. I don't know, the more I've learned about 114 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.960 thought leadership marketing, the more I'm like, Oh, this is like thought 115 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.879 leadership, this is like content marketing on steroids. This is essentially like a 116 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.399 level above content marketing. This is like, well, they do different places, 117 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.120 right. I mean you can do a lot of things abroad content marketing. 118 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.679 I've done I've done content barries for Seo reasons that aren't thought leadership marketing 119 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.919 and I get lots of traffic from it. Right ways to do it. 120 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.559 But at the same time I'm like thought leadership marketing goes it's harder to make, 121 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.000 takes a little bit more talent to be able to organize it and pull 122 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.080 it out to people and all that kind of stuff, but it's so much 123 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.279 more powerful and so much more profitable. Well, especially if you understand the 124 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.159 goals of your organization. You have to understand what the business is trying to 125 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.919 achieve, not only today but where it's going in the future, and you 126 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.440 have to also understand the landscape of your business. So the person who's serving 127 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.960 that role of head of thought leadership has to understand the organization vertically as well 128 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.840 as horizontally. It's big, big shoes to fill if somebody asked to do 129 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.840 it, but I don't know. I think it is a huge opportunity for 130 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.720 lots of people who get to get or invited into it. Let's move on 131 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:54.320 to number four. The what's the fourth mistake you see companies run into. 132 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:01.320 So the fourth mistake is that the organization doesn't set goals that are aligned with 133 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.919 business goals. And so I can give an example. We're going to put 134 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.039 out a piece of thought leadership. It could be a white paper, it 135 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.879 could be a podcast, it could be a journal, it could be a 136 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:18.600 conference, but they're not tying it back to the business goals. And so 137 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:24.200 what happens is the asset or the event gets the focus rather than the outcome. 138 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:30.840 And you've got to think about who are we trying to reach and if 139 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.639 we reach them, what are they going to do? And so the goals, 140 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.360 and we'll get into this in terms of measure and success, have to 141 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.240 be thought about upfront, because this is not like content marketing, and one 142 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.960 of the ways that I distinguish it is, you know, you can use 143 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.320 content marketing myotrics and say, Hey, I got all these likes and I 144 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.240 got all these impressions, Pat Yourself on the back and that's good. In 145 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.279 thought leadership that may not be good because if they're not the right audience, 146 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.320 you failed. So what's specific of enough of a goal, because I think 147 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.000 there's many shapes and sizes of goals and usually when people are coming to me 148 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:11.440 and saying, because I get to consult with customers, we're walking through our 149 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:13.559 podcasting process, and ask him like, okay, so what's the main goals 150 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.600 of your podcast? Thought leadership is often one of it's one of the top 151 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:22.960 three goals. So we want to produce content to have better thought leadership. 152 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:26.080 You know, they want to be seen as the expert. It's almost a 153 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.559 branding, it's a credibility play. It's also kind of a content marketing where 154 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.519 they're they're learning from them. Is that specific enough? What are you looking 155 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:37.440 for as far as it so I would go a little bit deeper on goals. 156 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.600 There right, and there are three sort of categories that I would say 157 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:46.919 that thought leadership is good at one, it can fill the sales pipeline different 158 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.320 way than content marketing or other types of marketing. But you can use the 159 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:56.240 leadership to fill the sales pipeline. Two, you can use it to continue 160 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.840 conversations and deepen relationships when it would be a word or inappropriate to have a 161 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:07.120 sales conversation. So you may have a potential buyer that's not in a by 162 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.919 mode. If you go to them and you just feed them marketing, which 163 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.440 is assuming that they're in the bicycle, you've got a problem. or You 164 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.440 could be talking to a policy maker or a regulator or any of those folks. 165 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:26.159 They're not buying, but what you're selling is the idea. Okay, 166 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.840 so that's a second goal. The third is to influence how people think and 167 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.080 act. So if you're in the C suite and you've got a vision your 168 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.919 CEO, you're doing thought leadership to your organization to say this is where we're 169 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.200 going, this is the future, this is how we're going to be successful. 170 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.039 Right, and that's the purpose of a town hall. That's a purpose 171 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.720 of all of the meetings that you do, listening sessions, etcetera. And 172 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:56.480 then if you're trying to influence customers so that when they put out an RFP, 173 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:01.679 they're thinking about what they want to buy from what you've already communicated to 174 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.440 them and have been talking about for two years, okay? or it could 175 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:13.759 be influencing standards and practices in the overall UM sector. Right. So, 176 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.919 whether it's a specification or an industry standard, are you influencing how the world 177 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:22.279 is going? I love those three. So I'm even just written, writing 178 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.240 it down and thinking about it. So when you say create sales pipeline, 179 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:31.159 I'm usually thinking of like you're creating demand for something that you're want to be 180 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.879 known for. Your deepening relationships. I think that has a huge place in 181 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.799 account based marketing, where you're, you know, building relationships with accounts and 182 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.000 just can't keep it like hey, are you interested in buying yet? I 183 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.960 think you even mentioned this in our our pre call yesterday, like you just 184 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.519 account Reps. can't just be buying like coming up and be like Hey, 185 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:50.000 do you have the RFP? Y? Hey, when are you putting can 186 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.240 be Simpson in the back of the car going are we there yet? Are 187 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.279 we there yet? You'RE gonna buy, YOU'RE gonna buy. That doesn't work 188 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:01.360 and assuming we get back to the point where we have face to face meetings 189 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.679 and business diners and that sort of thing. You can equip your salesforce, 190 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:09.000 if you're doing it well, with thought leadership and say here are the things 191 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.840 to tee up in conversation, because it will help fill your pipeline. Not 192 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.399 This quarter but if you're smart, you're filling up your pipeline for next year 193 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.360 on this right here, the seeds to plant. It's huge. And in 194 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.000 the last one, just broader influence, kind of in some sense, trying 195 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:33.240 to influence or steer to some degree a larger industry Um and ways people are 196 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.200 thinking broadly about a topic, which is a big thing, as well as 197 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:43.120 you can elevate a topic that isn't being talked about or discuss an existing topic 198 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.080 in a new way. So essentially, thought leadership marketing can be used as 199 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:54.440 a primary driver of category creation. Absolutely, absolutely, and maybe maybe in 200 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.799 the B two B space it kind of always is. I can't think of 201 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.960 a situation where you can create a maybe in a hardware space you probably could, 202 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.000 but generally it's going to take thought leadership in order to power category creation 203 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.639 well, and I'll give you an example on category creations. So and it's 204 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.360 one where there's a different alignment between the buyer and the manufacturer. So in 205 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:22.360 industrial equipment, Um, there's an organization that does thought leadership around. They 206 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.840 build cement plants, right, which is not a very green, environmental friendly 207 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.799 industry, but their corporate goal is to make the cement plants as green as 208 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.399 possible. They know their buyers. That's lower on the list. And so 209 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.720 where they use the leadership as they say, look, we know where public 210 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.399 policy is going to go, we know how regulations are going to change and, 211 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.399 as a result, instead of buying this, update your plant this way 212 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.480 so that you're ahead of the game. So moving on to the fifth question. 213 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.919 Are Fifth most common mistake you run into. What is that? Let's 214 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:07.720 describe it simply as department misunderstandings and sometimes even turf wars. Right. The 215 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.320 problem happens you stand up a thought leadership function. You've sort of dubbed someone 216 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:17.039 on the shoulder and they are now the night of thought leadership, right, 217 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:23.080 but they're in existing organization where things have been done. And what often happens 218 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.759 is people say, well, weren't we doing thought leadership? We were doing 219 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:33.000 content marketing or we were doing exact comms and we handled the speeches for sea 220 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:41.200 levels and that sort of thing. And the problem happens when people feel threatened. 221 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.720 And so you need a head of thought leadership who is willing to build 222 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:52.519 bridges and create those relationships and trust so that they know where to call you 223 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.960 in and where to call your team in and know where you're not going to 224 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.960 play, that you're not trying to take over all of their sands but that 225 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.680 there are things that you can do well and things they can do well. 226 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.039 Certainly be worth pulling all those people into a conversation right from the beginning, 227 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.519 right and hopefully, like the chant, the champion at the executive level of 228 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:15.000 spearheading, maybe that first kickoff being like Hey, I've designated this person as 229 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.400 the head of thought leadership, but you guys have to work together right and 230 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.960 kicks off that meeting. And that's where the executive champions helpful in terms of 231 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:29.480 what's really worked well is a lot of one on ones, and so I'm 232 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.839 thinking of a head of thought leadership who basically went to piers across the organization 233 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:41.559 and he said I had more lunches with piers both in town and I traveled 234 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:47.359 just that they understood what we did right and he said I did a meet 235 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:51.599 and greet tour for six months. So that's a lot of conversations and it 236 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.200 makes sense. Um, when you look at the sixth mistake, you see 237 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.599 most often where the head of thought leadership is in charge of everything. Tell 238 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.640 me more out that and how it's a mistake. So there are three functions 239 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:10.359 I would describe in thought leadership. The ability to create thought leadership, curate 240 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:14.920 it and deploy it. The role of the head of thought leadership is to 241 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:19.839 curate it. Marketing and different functions and marketing are great at deploying right thought 242 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:25.839 leadership teams don't have to deploy on their own. They can lean and collaborate 243 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:32.680 with existing marketing functions the creation. What happens is is, if you have 244 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.680 an organization of any size, you've got a lot of smart ideas and brilliant 245 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.000 people. You've hired smart people, and so with the head of thought leadership, 246 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:45.759 and the reason the head of fallt leadership function is important, you're the 247 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:51.920 person paying attention through the organization as to where are good ideas that deserve to 248 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.759 be elevated or would create more value if they brought together or put in the 249 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.000 hands of sales or put in the hands of marketing. Off and good ideas 250 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:07.039 go to die in power point decks and never encounter the outside world. So 251 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.240 the head of thought leadership is essentially an idea hunter. They're always looking for 252 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.839 things that probably have value if it's been set inside. It's locked inside our 253 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.920 power points, and they're looking for the things that probably need to be repackaged 254 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:23.519 and sent through marketing to distribute. So they're an idea hunter and they're also 255 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:29.519 looking for people who can speak on behalf of the organization. So if you 256 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.640 think about it, there are some people who are good at writing. Put 257 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.960 them on stage, they freeze. Some people are good on stage but loves 258 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.359 agong writing. You're looking for talent as well as ideas and say who can 259 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.319 be a good conduit to help get this idea, because there are times where 260 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:52.799 someone leaves the organization, they get taken for a new position or go to 261 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.240 a competitor or they retire or they go on sickly for something, and you 262 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:03.000 can't depend on that one person in the organization. And that's why, instead 263 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.880 of trying to do it all, you're trying to build a team and make 264 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:12.440 thought leadership everyone's responsibility. Some people create, some curate, some deploy to 265 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:18.039 kind of go on a slight rabbit trail between writing and speaking. Which one 266 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:22.400 is more powerful as a thought leadership content? It depends on the person who's 267 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:27.440 doing it right. There are people who can stand in front of a room 268 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:33.799 of ten people and bring them to tears, right, or they can paint 269 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.480 a vision of the future that says, yes, we need to do something. 270 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.319 There are other people who can write an article or write a piece that 271 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:48.559 just goes viral. Right. You have to find people who are skilled in 272 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.240 the medium and you may find someone who is a genius at the ideas but 273 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.440 they're not a communicator. Pair them with a communicator, someone who's a writer, 274 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.039 or get them a speech writer find a way to help the idea fly. 275 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.480 So essentially there's subject matter experts. Like this happens with Um. I 276 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.319 was amazed when I found this out about the Harvard Business Review, is hardly 277 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.000 ever written by the people whose bylines are on it. Right. They're usually 278 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.680 writers who interviewed the subject matter expert and actually turn their their ideas into things 279 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.160 that people like to read. Um. So you're talking like doing things like 280 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.960 that exactly. So if you're an expert in logistics, you haven't spent your 281 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:32.079 career writing business school articles for HBR. That's not your lane, but you 282 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.440 have the insight param with someone who can communicate that idea in a way that 283 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:40.599 people go wow, we should be doing that. Moving on to the seventh 284 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:45.759 one. What is the seventh most common mistake? You see, so the 285 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:52.559 head of the leadership needs allies within the organization, and this is the metaphor 286 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.880 that I said, top to bottom and across. Allies open doors for you 287 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:03.200 and bassadors speak on your behalf. Your sales force can be allies for you 288 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.759 where they go, Oh, let's get you in this room to talk, 289 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:12.119 or they can be ambassadors. You equip them with the right information, they're 290 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:18.839 going to talk to all of your prospects. Your marketing team are also potentially 291 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:25.119 allies and ambassadors, people in product or research or in customer service. You 292 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:30.720 have to be listening because the insights don't always come from within the walls of 293 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:36.759 the organization. So you want to build a listening network that brings information to 294 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.559 you as the head of thought leadership, so that you can figure out is 295 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:45.799 this signal or is this noise and if it's signal, what do we do 296 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.039 with it? Who needs to hear it and what action do we need to 297 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:56.400 take today? What are some like common things, common ways? People usually 298 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.240 get that wrong and then get unstuck with that if they're if they're bad at 299 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:07.880 finding allies. So if they're not good at finding allies, they're not thinking 300 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.440 about the relationship side of the role. Okay, and I think back to 301 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.240 Marshall Goldsmith, wrote a great book in terms of the early part of his 302 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.519 career. What got you here won't get you there. The head of thought 303 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:29.000 leadership has to focus on the relationships and if you're not doing that and if 304 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:33.960 you're focused solely on thinking, the best idea will automatically win in the marketplace 305 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.799 of ideas, and your job is just to find the best ideas, you're 306 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:45.319 going to hit the wall again and again because, as you know and as 307 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:51.599 our listeners know, marketing creates unfair advantages. Right, you need a good 308 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:57.440 idea with excellent marketing. That's gonna fly. An excellent idea with weak marketing 309 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.359 doesn't go anywhere, and a big part of that is the people around you. 310 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.519 Right exactly, you're working in an organization it takes more than one person 311 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:08.359 to get the idea out there, unless your team is so small and you're 312 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:12.240 the only one in charge of thought leadership and marketing right exactly. Even then 313 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.599 you could get into trouble if you're just publishing all the time and not checking 314 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.400 in with your few teammates. Right. A lot of this is about relationship. 315 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.640 What is the eighth most common mistake you see people make? So the 316 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:30.200 eighth, I would say, is that people get impatient. The organization, 317 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.319 the head of thought leadership, others around and they go, Oh, we 318 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:38.759 set this function up three months ago. What have they done? What have 319 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:45.039 they accomplished? And they may have some early wins, but the team needs 320 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.240 time to get their feet underneath them and also be able to achieve the goals 321 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:56.119 right. And so if you're talking about creating assets and getting them out there, 322 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:02.000 I encourage rapid prototyping. Always test, to get into market tested as 323 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.519 fast as you can. But the big winds and results where people go oh 324 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.519 now, I see this works. If you're thinking on a ninety day horizon, 325 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:15.319 you're being too impatient. You've got to think at least a year to 326 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:22.119 let the team find its way and to build those relationships and create those wins. 327 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.079 And is that a year from like first publication of your first piece, 328 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.720 or a year from when you actually start start thinking about it planning? Well, 329 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:36.160 I would say it's a year from when you actually launched the team. 330 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:41.319 Okay, don't expect that they're going to be knocking home runs out of the 331 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.160 park on day one. It may happen and that's a delight, but you 332 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.839 have to think about standing this as a function for the long haul and if 333 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:53.160 you're thinking about this on a ninety day trial, it's not going to work. 334 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:59.079 Most organizations that I've seen be successful with this have looked and said this 335 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:03.519 is a multi year commitment and year number one we're going to go out, 336 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.240 we're going to try stuff. Some things will succeed, some will fail. 337 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.319 Look at that. Will set more specific goals in year two and by year 338 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.759 three we know what we're doing, we do have our lanes and we've got 339 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.359 our processes. Would you say you should probably commit to like a three to 340 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.640 five year commitment towards making this a thing? It's kind of like it's you 341 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.680 really have to think broad and big picture, which means it's like it's going 342 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.319 to take a few years for this to become the full weight of what we 343 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.839 want to see, but we might start to see some inklings of success about 344 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:36.200 a year in. Right. It's a big picture, which is why, 345 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.000 going back to the earlier point, in the first point that I said of 346 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:44.079 no executive champion, you have to have someone on senior leadership who's patient enough 347 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:48.480 and go no, we're planting seeds. This will pay off in big ways, 348 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:55.759 but we don't expect them to be successful next month because chances are thought 349 00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.200 leadership, you know, it can create demand, it can create some more 350 00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:03.559 short term results, but really it's more of a branding play. Really it's 351 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:07.599 more of a positioning play to some degree, where it's it's you're trying to 352 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:12.400 position yourself as a leader in some respect in your your customer's mind right, 353 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.720 which takes I don't know, it kind of takes a while for you to 354 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:22.039 build that kind of reputation amongst your buyers. Reputation and trust absolutely matter. 355 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:27.680 Also, it takes repetition, because your listener rarely will hear something once and 356 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:33.000 go oh, yes, I agree, I'm all in right. You have 357 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.640 to repeat an idea several times. So there's a time period there the way 358 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.400 that I define felt leadership is you're looking around the corner into the future and 359 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:48.000 you're looking to see what are the risks and opportunities and make sense of them. 360 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.039 Then you bring that information back to people today and say here's what we 361 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:59.079 see it's coming and here's what you should be doing to prepare right, and 362 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:03.359 you build trust by telling them about the future, telling them what to do. 363 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.000 They take the action, they go wow, that paid off six or 364 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.039 nine months later, right. So there's a trust building cycle. If you're 365 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:17.160 in a transactional sort of relationship with your customer, you don't have as much 366 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.799 of the time to build trust, but a lot of B two B is 367 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.799 relationship driven in an a B M driven right. So just I was just 368 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:27.720 talking to grant Butler yesterday and one of the interesting things that stood out to 369 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.480 me that he said was that if journalism is past focused thought, leadership is 370 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:38.119 really future focused. You're not necessarily writing the future, but I guessly in 371 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.920 it sense you are. You're trying to write the future. You're trying to 372 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.000 say, hey, we should be going this way for whatever reason. It 373 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.720 might just be more effective, it might be better for everybody involved if we 374 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:53.039 go this way, you should go this way. What's the ninth most common 375 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:57.279 mistake? You See? You have to make it something that's inclusive. If 376 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:03.440 you present thoughtly ship that's done by only a handful of elite people in the 377 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:11.319 company or that it's something that is full reserved for a very few, it 378 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:18.039 doesn't work. Where I've seen it be most successful is when that senior leader 379 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.119 says, Hey, we're going on a journey and we all have to invest 380 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:26.640 in thought leadership. That doesn't mean all of us are writing or speaking, 381 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:30.160 that doesn't mean all of us are posting, but we have to be willing 382 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:37.720 to talk about these ideas, engage our customers and speak with one voice in 383 00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:44.839 thought leadership. And where I've seen it take most success is when the organization 384 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.200 says, yeah, this is partly everybody's responsibility, rather than Oh, you 385 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:53.319 do thought leadership, that means you're smarter than everybody else. Right, that's 386 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:59.160 not the case. Funny. Would you say it's company wide? Yeah, 387 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.880 I would a at least say that, and I would say that a vast 388 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:14.000 array of the ideas within an organization are in the corners that people often overlook. 389 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:21.559 So I can think of a consumer package goods company where they identify thought 390 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:26.519 leadership globally and they have hundreds of thousands of employees. Right one of their 391 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:33.119 expertise is yeast and understanding yeast and you might guess, is to sort of 392 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:42.599 what industry they're in. But those people in terms of brewing are absolutely critical 393 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.599 for them and if you lose someone with that knowledge, not just as a 394 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.799 subject matter expert, but they retire and that knowledge isn't transferred to the next 395 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:59.279 generation, that knowledge has walked out the door. I've certainly I think there's 396 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.480 different opinion is on this. Particularly some people are like no, some people 397 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.319 are very set on it being like the founder, CEO, you know, 398 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.640 and staying in the C suite. I've seen groups, usually everybody's on the 399 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.680 same page that you probably just shouldn't have one subject matter expert that's the thought 400 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:18.000 leader because of that person, you know leaves or it tragically disappears or something 401 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.119 like that, then you've you've put a little bit too much investment in just 402 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.880 one face and one person. But I've not heard a lot of people talk 403 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.319 about unlocking the whole organization. I have heard of other people talking about it 404 00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.480 and that's kind of where I'm leaning personally is like not like everybody's got a 405 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.839 little something to offer. Some, of course, some have way more to 406 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.960 offer than others, but it almost seems like everybody has a little piece of 407 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.160 expertise, especially since they're kind of doing it full time right and working in 408 00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:45.720 your organization and working in that particular position that you're at in your industry. 409 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.039 There's gonna be a lot they're especially collectively. If you can find it, 410 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.279 though, setting up the systems and processes to get it out there must be. 411 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:59.920 Must be an interesting work right there. And if you can idea, 412 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:06.839 defy and communicate within an organization. Here's the value I ad here's my unique 413 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.160 perspective. This is what I do. That really helps the custody shine. 414 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.400 That's great for morale. That also creates more and more differentiators when you're trying 415 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:22.400 to go to market, and it creates an environment where people want to contribute 416 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.640 their best thinking and effort rather than they see themselves as a cog in a 417 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:30.000 large machine. I like that. That's kind of where we're heading with sweet 418 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.640 fish media. It's just good to hear somebody else say it so I'm not 419 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.519 like alone in my thinking. I'm like I feel like everybody could be it, 420 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:40.160 but I don't know, it seems like that's not as as popular as 421 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:45.079 an opinion, where most people are trying to trying to most people are trying 422 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.039 to select a few subject matter experts, you know, three or four, 423 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.880 and then it depends on what size they are. But that's the more common 424 00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:57.440 route unless, uh, I don't know. I guess organizations like Mackenzie and 425 00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:01.960 Deloitte will often have multiple people submit to a journal of some kind. Well, 426 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.799 in professional services is an area that has done this longer than many, 427 00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:15.720 because if you're one of the big consultancies or if you're um working in programming 428 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:21.960 and software and doing solutions and that for your clients, you're selling the knowledge 429 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:27.559 of your people and the more that you can showcase your workforce as able to 430 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:32.519 solve smart problems, then you win more deals. Right. That's a big 431 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:37.119 win Um and I'm looking forward to roll inside and sweet fish to see if 432 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.799 we can kind of replicate their success that they've had. So the last one, 433 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:43.960 I want to make sure we hit all tens. I promised all ten. 434 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.680 The last one. What was the last mistake that most companies make when 435 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.440 trying to implement thought leadership programs. So the last one I'll say simply the 436 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:59.359 organization tries to measure success by the wrong standards, and so this is like 437 00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:06.039 pulling a metric wrench when you need a standard wrench right and you're trying to 438 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.960 turn it, but it doesn't work. And so the most common version of 439 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:17.679 this mistake is when you start applying content marketing metrics to thought leadership and you 440 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:23.840 wind up rewarding and in scenting the wrong results. So what are those metrics 441 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:29.159 that are commonly applied and what are better metrics? So I'll start with what 442 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:34.360 commonly gets applied and often sometimes I just have to say Whoa, Whoa stop. 443 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:40.880 So views impressions, attendees at Events and conferences, and I had a 444 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:45.519 conversation once with a client who said, okay, we did this Webinar and 445 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.280 we had x thousand number of attendees. I said, great, which of 446 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.519 those attendees were the most important people that you needed to reach to make this 447 00:34:54.599 --> 00:35:00.400 idea fly? And do you know who those people were? Were they watching? 448 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.840 Where they engaged? And there was a moment of silence. Instead of 449 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:12.760 looking at the aggregate attendees and saying a bigger number is better. It's if 450 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:17.719 you're creating impact, some of your target audiences are able to open doors more 451 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:23.039 effectively for you be decision makers that can create impact or achieve results, and 452 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:29.960 if you get to them and they buy in, then the idea goes further 453 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.960 and faster at scale. So you talked about events, but what are other 454 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.400 metrics you can look at if you're not doing events at all? Is it 455 00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.239 kind of the same thing applied to podcasting, for example? Exactly? So 456 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.760 you don't know exactly who's listening unless you pay a ton. Recently I did 457 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.800 find software that will tell you what companies are listening to your podcast, but 458 00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.199 it costs like five hundred bucks a month and I was like, well, 459 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.480 and that's the difficulty, right. In podcasting, you look and you say, 460 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:00.719 okay, I've put bait out there for people to listen and two, 461 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.519 not only one, are people listening, but then two, are they the 462 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.000 right people? And if you focus on the number of how many downloads did 463 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:14.480 you have in a month? Right, it's a very squishy status statistic. 464 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.519 It's like Um putting out a press release and going Oh, we had this 465 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.880 much reach, congratulations, but did you reach the right people, okay, 466 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:29.519 and so that's why you launched the conversation here and said we do a very 467 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:35.920 niche podcast on thought leadership. Right. We consciously made that choice to go 468 00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.239 niche rather than broad, and we said these are the people we want to 469 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:46.559 reach and we're irrelevant to ninety nine of the world's population, where they shouldn't 470 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:51.119 listen to us. They should go do something else and more valuable with their 471 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:58.719 time in life. But you want to be indispensably relevant to that fraction of 472 00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.920 a percent of the world. Okay, I'll give you a few pieces, 473 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:07.960 and these go into ANNEC data rather than hard data, but they're good, 474 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:13.039 good example. So when we put out a podcast and we have people to 475 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:16.280 come back to us and say I listened to your podcast and it sounded like 476 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:22.559 you were in the room talking to me and I was sitting with your guests 477 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.840 and we were around a table talking about issues I cared about, that you've 478 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:30.719 walked into my office, that's when you know you want because that person that 479 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.199 you were trying to reach is most likely a buyer and they were paying really 480 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:39.000 close attention. That's beautiful and while we had to take usually a slightly different 481 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:43.400 approach with our podcasting. I could certainly see the benefit of creating a very 482 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.199 niche podcast and at the end of the day it's even something. And I'm 483 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:50.199 still measuring, though. I usually counted a little bit more on Linkedin, 484 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.679 where you can see exactly who's interacting with your comment, who you're engaging within 485 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.320 comments. It's on Linkedin, it's like, I don't know why, if 486 00:37:57.320 --> 00:37:59.480 you're in B two B and you're not active on Linkedin, I'm like, 487 00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.960 why is? It gives you so much freight information, like every everybody's on 488 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.119 there. Well, and Lincoln is because you can see who's engaging with your 489 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:10.360 idea and do they fit the types of people that you want to reach? 490 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:15.440 You can actually see if you're reaching the people because they're the ones in the 491 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.119 comments right or you can just more easily go and find the people who are 492 00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.679 active in your space, who you'd like to do business with, and engage 493 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:23.679 with them in their comments, start talking commenting with them and then all of 494 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.880 a sudden they start showing up in yours. It's a beautiful thing. So 495 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:34.000 I love that. Essentially, uh you're measuring percentage reached on the key accounts 496 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.599 that you want to do business with. Exactly, and you also measure impact 497 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:45.840 in different ways. So another example is if you're responsible for thought leadership for 498 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:52.719 your executive team and they're meeting people in industry and you're giving them a list 499 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:55.360 of pull sides, for example, of here, the pull sides and the 500 00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:00.039 free minute conversations that you're going to have while you're at this event, and 501 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:07.280 those conversations may not bear fruit in six months. Those are strategic deals, 502 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:13.559 those are relationships that have to be nurtured, and so the initial thing is 503 00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:17.360 checklist. Did all those conversations happen? Yes or no? Great, did 504 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.199 we get a follow up on those conversations afterwards, within a couple of weeks? 505 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.679 You almost have to think on a campaign level and say, if this 506 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.880 is moving forward, what evidence would I be seen? Um, I know 507 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:37.119 the evidence I'd be looking for is one consumption. Consumption would be number one. 508 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:43.280 After that I'd be looking for how many people are like responding to it. 509 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:46.119 So usually, depending on the medium, there's different ways where people can 510 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:51.159 respond and linked in it's comments, but oftentimes people can just mention it. 511 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.440 I usually just ask customers or new new prospects in the pipeline. Oh, 512 00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:57.119 where'd you hear about us. Oh, we saw this and then I read 513 00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.519 this. You know, they start to tell you themselves where they come and 514 00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:01.320 I usually listen for like Oh, like, what did they read before? 515 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:05.559 Were they listening to the podcast where they literally just come off a Linkedin? 516 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:07.480 They didn't even listen to our PODCAST, but we've been talking about it so 517 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.320 much on Linkedin. You know, Um, what kinds of things did they 518 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.079 read and what kind of maybe even based on the kind of questions or point 519 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:17.320 of view they're coming with it, I can tell like what they've read recently, 520 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:22.400 all things that kind of measure the thought leadership or the strength of the 521 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:27.159 thought leadership content. Another good example is with the podcast. If you have 522 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.239 people who come to you and say, I've been listening to you for a 523 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.920 year or whatever and it wasn't the right time for me to come to you, 524 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.880 but now is all of a sudden you've closed your sales cycle from a 525 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.400 year long where you were chasing someone where it wasn't the right by time. 526 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.800 Too, they show up and they're ready to close the deal almost immediately. 527 00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:50.800 Man, this has been fantastic and going through tens usually a lot for a 528 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.599 list in a podcast, but it's been fun to kind of hear all these 529 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:57.280 different perspectives. I know I've gotten a lot of nuggets out of it just 530 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.960 even thinking through like Oh, like sweet fish is all company compared to people. 531 00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.920 I mean we have thirty employees and companies of, you know, hundreds, 532 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.119 thousands some of the dynamics. So you might have to face if you're 533 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.840 a thought leader in those companies. And I'm sure the audience has gotten quite 534 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.360 a few nuggets out of it. I know I have Um for my future. 535 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.599 We're trying to implement thought leadership for sweet fish. I know you want 536 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.159 to talk a little bit about the stevie awards for women in Business, Bill, 537 00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:27.559 so tell us a little bit about that and why what the audience can 538 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.199 do to go check that out. Yes, so one of the things that 539 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:37.800 we recognized is thought leadership, as an evolving function, needs to recognize excellence 540 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:46.840 and so we partnered with the stevie business awards specifically for recognizing excellence and thought 541 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:55.360 leadership and they do a series of eight different award programs, international Um US 542 00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:00.239 business awards over the course of the year. The category story that's just opened 543 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:07.119 up as of the middle of May is for women in business and recognizing thought 544 00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:14.119 leadership excellence in three categories for women in business. One, organizations that are 545 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:20.079 doing an excellent job of developing women as thought leadership practitioners and promoting their ideas 546 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.360 within and beyond the organization too, excellence and thought leadership campaigns by and for 547 00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:32.320 women, and then three, excellence as best female thought leader for themselves and 548 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.400 for their organization. There will be other categories going on, but we felt 549 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:45.039 it was absolutely critical and essential to start really within the business space, recognizing 550 00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:51.440 the folks who are day to day doing thought leadership and the excellent work they're 551 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:57.440 doing for their companies. That's great. So where there are places where you 552 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:04.239 can nominate women Um or making did? You go to Stevie awards and you 553 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:08.679 can download a nomination packet. So if you think you fit one of these 554 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:15.000 categories for women in business, go to the Stevie awards downloaded and submit. 555 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:19.719 Or if you know someone who fits this category, and I encourage you because 556 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.760 especially with women in thought leadership, women have sometimes told themselves know, what 557 00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:29.480 I'm doing really isn't thought leadership for their my business, or they've had their 558 00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:32.159 colleagues say that's not thought leadership. You don't have to speak that sort of 559 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:37.119 thing. They've actually actively been dismissed. If you know someone who fits this 560 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.719 category, reach out to them say hey, I know you're rocking it here 561 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:44.760 in thought leadership. You're doing amazing work. Take a look at this. 562 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:51.480 It's worth you seeing if you want to apply, and we want to celebrate 563 00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.519 the best work of thought leadership that's out there. It's fantastic. I definitely 564 00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.239 have someone in mind, somebody that interviewed for this podcast and I was like, 565 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.440 how do you not have a book on this topic already, like I 566 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:04.559 would have learned so much. So I'm like I can already think of somebody 567 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.480 that I could I want to right up and put in a nomination for them 568 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.719 and then let them know like Hey, look, I've nominated you for this 569 00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:15.599 because you freaking earned it and somebody, somebody needed to like toot your horn 570 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.000 for you, you know. So I'm sure there's a number of people in 571 00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.280 the listening right now where you know somebody who deserves it, who's been working 572 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:27.840 undercover or as a brilliant thought leader and maybe doesn't get recognized enough or gets 573 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:32.320 recognized a lot and still could use some more because they continue to do great 574 00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.360 things. They don't just rest on their laurels from long ago. They're continuing 575 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.119 to push the envelope. So I recommend all the audience to go and check 576 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:45.639 that out. Um Bill, this has been a wonderful episode, learning from 577 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.119 you, taking advantage of your years of Wisdom that you've Buelt coaching so many 578 00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:53.320 thought leader practitioners through the craft of thought leadership. Um. But people want 579 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:57.000 to learn more from you work. Can they go to find you online? 580 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.760 So the best place to find me is thought leadership leverages, our company. 581 00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:07.079 That's thought leadership leverage dot com, or look for me on Linkedin. I 582 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:13.679 use the personal Hashtag or T L O R G T L, and I'm 583 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:28.639 Bill Sherman. B Two B growth is brought to you by the team at 584 00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.800 sweet fish media. Here at Sweet Fish, we produced podcasts for some of 585 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:35.920 the most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into 586 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:39.039 micro videos, linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission 587 00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:44.599 to produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet fish media 588 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:52.119 DOT com.