Stop Avoiding Brand in the Boardroom, with Drew Neisser

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:17.760 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Today, 2 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:22.239 on B Tob Growth, I am so happy and thrilled to be joined 3 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:26.559 by drew niser. Drew, thank you for stopping by B Tob Growth. 4 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:29.640 Sir, Oh my God, thank you for having me. It's amazing to 5 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.079 be here and I am so grateful for any podcaster for what they do, 6 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:36.600 because it is a lot of work. It's some work, but you have 7 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:40.880 been putting in work. Let me list off your resume of sorts, drew. 8 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:46.600 So you are the founder of renegade and CMO huddles recently named on Linkedin's 9 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:52.159 two thousand and twenty two list of top voices in marketing and advertising. That's 10 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:57.399 a pretty cool list to be on. So congratulations there. Thank you. 11 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:00.640 It is and you know that. And I think about seven dollars will get 12 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:04.439 you a cup of coffee at starbucks. But no, it's really an honor. 13 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.439 What the coolest part is there's some amazing people on that list that I 14 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.719 have a lot of respect for. So to be on the list, it 15 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.959 all was like, Oh wow, that's good company. Yeah, yeah, 16 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.719 well, one other thing I wanted to mention right here on the top. 17 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:19.079 You recently came out with your new book, I got it right here, 18 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.719 sit next to me, renegade marketing. We're going to touch on some of 19 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:30.079 the twelve steps of building an unbeatable be tob brand in today's conversation, in 20 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:33.879 both directly and indirectly. But a book is no small feet. I know 21 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.000 you've done this, what a few times now. This is book number two. 22 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:42.200 Book Number One was the CMOS periodic table, a renegade guide to marketing, 23 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:45.000 and that was the book. That was a lot easier to write, 24 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.200 because I had done a hundred interviews and someone said, drew, there's got 25 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.680 to be a book there, and so I sort of this periodic table came 26 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:53.480 as a way of doing it. This book was a lot more work. 27 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:57.719 It was literally four years in the making. Who Well, we're about to 28 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.760 get four years of wisdom in this one episode of BB grows. So everybody 29 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:07.039 buckle up. But here's what we want to talk about today because, for 30 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:13.520 a really a litany of reasons, something that I see happen in B Tob 31 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.680 c suites is there is a word that almost I don't know if I would 32 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.479 say it gets glossed over or it doesn't get talked about like it should, 33 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:25.840 and the word is brand. The word is brand. And you had a 34 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:34.599 conversation with a couple CMOS who had recently gone through an IPO process and when 35 00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:39.159 it came to marketing, they both had experienced some similar hurdles. Right. 36 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:44.360 Would you kind of outline what those hurdles were for us through? Well, 37 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:50.240 the interesting thing about an IPO is that it's the only moment in time and 38 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.439 marketing where it's a you either win, as in you get the IPO, 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.159 or you lose, and so that zero some game doesn't exist. I mean 40 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.520 most of the time we might hit our sales targetter just miss it or exceed 41 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:04.879 it, but here's the case, you either hit it or you don't, 42 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:09.439 and so the result is that everybody in the leadership team has to put together 43 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:15.759 a really clear and coherent plan to get there right, because there's no second 44 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:20.319 chance. You either make it or you don't. And part of the interesting 45 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:23.840 thing that comes up is what role will marketing play? Let's assume the IPO 46 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:29.479 goes through. What role will marketing play in the growth of the the future 47 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:34.439 of the company? And it's almost always we're underspending on marketing or we're not 48 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.639 spending as much as we could if we had more here's the multiplier effect that 49 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:39.960 we would get, which is, you know, we're doing a fundraiser to 50 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.479 raise money for something, right. But what's so interesting is that everyone who's 51 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:52.199 gone through an IPO as a marketer has really tight metrics, like underably tight 52 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.199 metrics. And, by the way, the CFO agreed with them, the 53 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:59.039 CEO agreed with them, the salesperson agreed, and so you have a unified 54 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:03.520 moment, which is often rare, where you talk about here's the size of 55 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:10.080 the opportunity, here's where our brand is in relationship to that opportunity. But 56 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.560 if we had more money and we did these three things, we could grow 57 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.000 and it's just so interesting and it's one of those things where I kind of 58 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.000 wish every CMO had to go through it, because if every CMO did, 59 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:24.680 first of all two things would happen. One, the organization would be aligned 60 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.240 and to CMO would have better metrics that were both on the brand and demand 61 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.959 front. So longwinded answer, I think, to your question. I like 62 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:38.480 the long winded answer at tell me, in your experience and in these conversations, 63 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:43.480 you mentioned alignment and then you also mentioned these metrics. What are some 64 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.079 of those key metrics that this process that, once they've gone through it, 65 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:50.519 they're really paying attention to? So it's a combination of things and it really 66 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:56.279 somewhat depends on where the brand is. But if you look at marketing and 67 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.519 you say, all right, this is company x and there are let's say 68 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.360 be to be and they're targeting enterprises, there might only be any given year 69 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:08.639 a hundred, two, hundred, five, hundred, a thousand opportunities, 70 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:12.800 for example. So first job is to figure out how many opportunities are out 71 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:15.079 there, how many people are actually looking to buy the product or service that 72 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:20.920 you sell, and then how many opportunities did you get within that buying group? 73 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:24.920 And so you had there were a hundred opportunities, but you only got 74 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.360 ten R of P's. You have a problem with awareness, right. It's 75 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.800 a so you have a really simple but if you are an eighty percent of 76 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:35.240 them but you're only winning ten percent of and then you have a closing problem 77 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.759 and you have sort of this in between. So the first the other thing 78 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.879 you have to do is in your metrics is figure out do we have a 79 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:48.079 market place and are there people actually shopping for our product and, if so, 80 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:53.160 how many of them are considering us? And and this is where you 81 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:58.879 know it sounds so basic, but you'd be amazed how few do this in 82 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.160 and the breakdown of this is if you're not focused. In my whole book 83 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:08.240 is about focused. If you are not focused, you will fail, because 84 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:13.519 marketing is it's too time consuming. Forget about any investment you make in terms 85 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:18.199 of media. It takes so much time to get organizational alignment and get sales 86 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.879 and everybody ready to sell against the marketing idea that you're putting in a market 87 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:27.879 that if you don't have a clear target and a clear focus and understand Oh, 88 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.439 we have an awareness problem or we have a consideration problem or we have 89 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:35.000 that kind of problem, and chances are you're solving the wrong problem and then 90 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:39.279 you're just sort of doing what we call the peanut better effect. You're just 91 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.600 doing everything to see what sticks. HMM, yeah, that, man. 92 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.959 How often are we guilty of that? Okay, so I got to tell 93 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.800 you my background in was not in the be tob space. So I came 94 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:56.879 into marketing. I loved like the design, the brand side and the creative 95 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:01.000 right and then the last few years being more steeped in this be tob space, 96 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:06.000 I've been, I would say, a little bit underwhelmed with how brand 97 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:11.600 is discussed. I think it's a word that can easily be maybe avoided, 98 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.480 and you see this too. How have you come to that realization? What 99 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.680 are some of the the ways that you see this playing itself out right now? 100 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:26.720 So about every six to eight months in Cmo huddles, which are these 101 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:31.279 moderated round table conversations that you know. You you mentioned I founded this company. 102 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.480 Anyway, when we start talking about brand, my first question is how 103 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:42.079 many of you can actually use the word brand in the sea suite or with 104 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.040 your board of Advisors? And now this is particularly true in the startup world, 105 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:50.839 but it's pretty pervasive in B tob is. Less than half can actually 106 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:55.959 use the word. And so they have these splsms. Oh we're doing revenue 107 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.639 marketing, Oh this is air cover marketing. Oh this is some other thing, 108 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:05.800 but this is brand, a activation, it's active brand. I mean 109 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:11.199 you know the makeup combinations of things. Sure, anything to avoid the word 110 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.959 brand, because brand is fluffy, brand is color and logo. At least 111 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:24.040 that's what people who don't know what brand can really be, which is the 112 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.519 core of a company. You know, you brand starts with values and purpose 113 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.840 and and where you want to go, and then it gets translated into design. 114 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.440 So for those who don't understand that and see it as Fluffy, oh, 115 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.879 I don't want to spend any money on that. I only want to 116 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:46.399 spend money on demand generation. Like there could be demand generation with brand. 117 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.759 I mean so, and a very simple example. If you are, let's 118 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.200 say you're looking for a house painter, just for the and you go to 119 00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:01.440 the house painters website and you see pictures, very poor, loppy pictures of 120 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:05.240 houses, you're going to say, Oh God, I don't know if I 121 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.159 could trust that. You know that. Okay, later, right, it's 122 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:13.519 just it's not there's a disconnect. So brand started, starts to infiltrate every 123 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:18.000 aspect of a business and if it isn't well thought through and it isn't well 124 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:22.399 designed, you can have a problem. But there's so much more to it 125 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:28.240 than design. HMM. See. Okay, because it can be perceived as 126 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.120 fluffy, yes, and because brand is a word that comes with some baggage, 127 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:37.080 yes, probably needs some sort of raining in in a sense, and 128 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.600 I wonder if you would just maybe walk us through what we're talking about specifically 129 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.759 in this episode. Drew, when when we say the word brand, like 130 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.639 what, what all does that mean to you? So let's start with some 131 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:52.399 very basic things. And one of the things, the reason that I can 132 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:58.000 call the book renegade marketing, is that I really try to flip things upside 133 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:03.600 down. Most be tob marketers start with prospect then they go to customer, 134 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:09.519 then they go to employ and I said that's wrong. Most sort of think 135 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:13.399 about channels and and verticals and I said now we got to start. We 136 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.000 got to start with strategy and then we got to start with employees, customers 137 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:22.440 and prospects. So when you have a well defined brand, every single employee 138 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:28.399 in the company can, in one sentence, summarize what it is that you 139 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.879 as an organization, why they exist, everything I want them to do that. 140 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.320 It is the absence of brand that has employees scratching their head saying, 141 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.200 I don't know, I do we exist? Why? Why are we here? 142 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:45.639 I don't know, it's a job, it pays me money, I 143 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:50.440 come, I work, I leave. Brand is this sticky thing that allows 144 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:56.320 employees to be emotionally connected. It's this sticky thing that gets customers to want 145 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:01.799 to show up and act like a community where you you know you think of 146 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.879 I think of brands like Marquetto or tableau, where they're the employee that customers 147 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:18.039 who go to Marquetto nation they're identifying as like Marquettoites, as are they feel 148 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.200 or Tabloisian's right, they're part of this community. That's when you know you've 149 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:31.159 really brand exists as an idea with your employees and your customers with tremendous clarity. 150 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:37.440 There's there's a unquestionable amount of I know what this brand, this company, 151 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.879 stands for. HMM, okay. So in my head I go well, 152 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.440 that sounds great. Why doesn't every company just want that? You know, 153 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.720 and there's a desire for it, but I see a gap in the 154 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:58.000 time waited to address it. So Oh, we'll put off marketing until this 155 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:03.519 part of the processes complete. Until why is it put off in your mind? 156 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.039 What are some of those common denominator factors that push it down the road 157 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.519 and isn't something that we address now? Well, in the old days you 158 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:16.639 couldn't really probably succeed without brand, but today you can create a minimally viable 159 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.879 product, as they call it an MVP, you can put it out on 160 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.440 the web, you can charge nothing for it, you can get a lot 161 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:28.720 of people to use the product or service right without a tremendous amount of energy 162 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:35.159 and without really having thought about that much what the company stands for. And 163 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.679 it only gets a point where you can't get anymore you can get any more 164 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.120 people to download it right, or you can't where the people oh now, 165 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:48.639 or we need to get him to pay money for it, or and suddenly 166 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:54.960 you can't just rely on Google search anymore, or you know keywords to drive 167 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.080 your business and then suddenly sort of the folks in the organization realize Oh, 168 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.440 or another place that happens is, and this is so interesting at this happened 169 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:11.320 recently in one of our huddles. One of the CMO mention that they had 170 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:18.039 won two businesses recently. This is an enterprise company based on a culture match, 171 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:24.679 based on the the the buying committee looked at the culture of the company 172 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:30.840 and said these are people I can do business with. The are people I 173 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:35.279 want to do business with. Their values share and align with our values. 174 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:41.679 And so you know, if you look at values and culture and then go 175 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:46.279 straight from there to brand and you have a company that is winning deals not 176 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.200 on price but because of, in this case, the culture. You have 177 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.840 a brand, you know, and so the reason people don't do it is 178 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:58.519 because they can get away with it to a certain extent without it. HMM. 179 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.960 I think of even this idea of founder led sales as early on it's 180 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.639 also founder led marketing without you realizing it, because the founder holds so much 181 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.080 of the vision and the mission and all that. And so in those startup 182 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.039 days, without knowing it, because you don't have a ton of founders who 183 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.039 have a background in marketing, but they're doing some of that motion, and 184 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.600 then there's like a handoff that needs to happen. In a lot of times 185 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:26.519 it gets handed off the sales and then, oh well, once we prove 186 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:31.720 out sales, then we'll add marketing. But you started missing a piece because 187 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:33.960 that vision that was held in that marketing, that was in that founder, 188 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.840 doesn't go to anybody for a while. Yeah, you're right. I mean 189 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.799 in many startups the founder and the brand are inseparable. HMM. And that's 190 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:48.080 good until the founder gets in trouble, as sometimes happens, or goes off 191 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:54.279 the deep end, as sometimes happens. But I'm thinking about where this really 192 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.440 you would think enterprise sale, where you're selling to a buying committee of fifteen 193 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.000 people, and you would say, well, this has got to be about 194 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:07.960 price and functionality. And it will blow you away to realize how many times 195 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.600 deals are lost in this eighteen month sales cycle because there were inconsistencies in the 196 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:18.960 story that we're told the the the CFO was told one story, the security 197 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:24.320 guy was told another story, the operations person was told another story. When 198 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.639 they all came together they were describing a different animal. MMM and and they 199 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.879 couldn't agree on why it was that they wanted this product or service. And 200 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:37.840 again, what that discipline of brand forces. And you know, what I 201 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.840 try to do in my book is radically simplify all of this and say let's 202 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.039 get our story, we call it a purpose driven the story statement, down 203 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.399 to eight words or less. There you go, get it down to eight 204 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.840 words or less. I give you a quick example. And then the book 205 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:58.279 I tell the story of case paper. Case papers a seventy seven year old 206 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.679 family run paper company. I mean this is literally they sell paper, they 207 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.240 chop it up, they send it to printers. It's is generic as it 208 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.080 gets. The office is based on it exactly, almost and then they have 209 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:17.960 a lot of fun with it. But what distinguished this brand is their sense 210 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.159 of service, be above and beyond. And so the brand, the purposer 211 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.320 of the story statement, is on the case, case paper, on the 212 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.000 case. Now there's another element to it. They're funny company. They've always 213 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.679 it's been funny. They're humorous, say they build relationships. They're a joker 214 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.320 arc type brand. So on the actually sits on top of their logo. 215 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.840 It's a heretical move. We broke the you know, the fourth wall. 216 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.360 We put on the overcase and everything they do has a sense of humor. 217 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.440 So now every single employee. You say, so what's our company stand where 218 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:53.840 we're on the case? Well, what's that mean? While we're reliable, 219 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.960 resourceful and responsive. And so those are the three things, those are the 220 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:03.200 guiding lights. Game over. Everybody knows what we're doing. Yep, and 221 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:10.000 and that's how simple brand can be. Now there are colors involved in this 222 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:12.519 and there's, you know, there's the logo treatment and there's all sorts of 223 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:18.160 other things, but at the core of this is a big promise to the 224 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.119 market place. I love what you just did because you tied in, both 225 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:30.200 external and internal, the power of alignment around brand right, because alignment is 226 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.359 something, and this goes back to the beginning of our conversation with the whole 227 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:38.240 IPO process. Alignment can be forced because it has to happen, or it 228 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.880 can be something that you choose. Know, we're going to get our stuff 229 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.599 together and we're going to do this thing and and misalignment is the enemy, 230 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.559 right, we all know that in business. But again, just a simple 231 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:53.720 phrase that we all have memorized or just that we can give away. Then 232 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.880 people aren't confused, right, when you got to go to the whole buying 233 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:02.000 committee, know, we know exactly what we do and we're communicating this clearly 234 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.759 to you, no matter who you talked to in the organization. Yeah, 235 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:08.920 and I'm going to step back further and so yes to everything that you said. 236 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:17.160 The thing about employees as this untapped army of advocates is is so important. 237 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.599 So if you're thinking about a rebranding process, one of the things in 238 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.640 the book, and by the way, any of your listeners, if they 239 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.400 want this chapter, I'm happy to send it to him. They can just 240 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:29.960 hit me up on Linkedin. But is do an employee survey at the very 241 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.839 beginning of whatever brand proper. You should do one anyway, on an annual 242 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:38.000 basis. We list in the book all the questions that you can start with 243 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.359 as as a way of doing it. It's so easy. But here's the 244 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:47.279 thing. You're asking your employees for your opinion, for their opinion. They 245 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:51.519 feel part of the process and when you come back to them with where you're 246 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.240 changing things, so say, oh, that's cool, I knew it was 247 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.799 coming, I was part of the process. Oh, and I can even 248 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.519 see how some of the things that I said are showing up here. So 249 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:06.960 this is this goal mine called employees. That marketer sort of forget all that's 250 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.160 hrs to domain. That's our internal army. And then we once we do 251 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.680 that, we go to customers and we say, Hey, we're thinking about 252 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.359 this as our next brand idea. How does that align with the way you 253 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.720 think about us? And hopefully you've already done your customer interviews before you rebrand 254 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.880 anyway. But you get customer alignment, because the worst thing they can have 255 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.720 is so first thing is you have a new brand. This happens and I 256 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.799 no cases where it happens. You don't tell the employees about it. You 257 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.039 go to market with employs as that's us. That's not us, that's not 258 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.799 the company I work for. So it fails there. So you call the 259 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.559 eight hundred number and say, Hey, I want to talk to you about 260 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.599 being on the case. They go what, I'm not on the case. 261 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:51.000 Yeah, you got the wrong company. Then you you go to customers with 262 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.440 this thing and they that's not who I'm working with, they're not on that 263 00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:00.400 case. So have this disconnect. You don't even have a chance of getting 264 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.359 any new customers if your employees aren't on board and your customers on them aren't 265 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.519 on board. I mean, and it's that's a simple idea, but I 266 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.319 got to tell you, in the research that we did up to the book 267 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:17.559 lesson sixty know, something like eighty percent of the bbcmos that we surveyed allowed 268 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.519 less than a month for internal employee communications. And I'm going to harp on 269 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:25.720 this for a second to take you one step further. In an ideal world, 270 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.279 a rebrand is not a new logo, it is not six words, 271 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:37.240 it is an organizational commitment to change behavior in a remarkable way. So if 272 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:42.920 you're Etna and you say to the outside world you don't join us, we 273 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:49.160 join you. You spend six months retraining employees on how to do that. 274 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.759 HMM. So you're making a new promise to the market place and you've trained 275 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.400 employees on how to deliver it. So, for example, if you call 276 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.960 the call center at Etna and you say, Hey, I need to prove 277 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.119 all on a knee surgery, they'll say okay, great, I got it. 278 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.240 But also most people who do knee surgeries want to get PT afterwards. 279 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:14.400 Now imagine what that did. Suddenly we went from I wanted approval to wow, 280 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:18.519 you added value. Well, that was part of the retraining that goes 281 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.920 with this thing. So you know, too much of the reason people can't 282 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.920 use the word brand is it sounds superficial, and often is. When we 283 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:32.119 talk about renegade marketing, we're talking about something that is incredibly substantive. It 284 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.200 is a set of actions that ideally are a value to your employees, customers 285 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.279 and prospects. It's so cool when it works. It is. It is 286 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:45.160 very cool when it works and it's complicated because it's not. It's not as 287 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.680 easy as throwing new colors on it and just doing the quote unquote fluffy stuff. 288 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:55.519 So I wonder even there, with that that many rant that drew just 289 00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:00.799 gave us, what, when you think of retraining around brand, what are 290 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:06.400 some of those crucial things you can do to kind of force that alignment internally 291 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.359 so you're all sort of back on the same page, because some people have 292 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:15.839 that quick sentence or whatever. But like, obviously alignment drips and shifts and 293 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.240 all sorts of things and you have to bring it back. So one of 294 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.799 the things that I talked about a little bit in the book of this idea 295 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.319 called a plan on the page. And so we have our purpose, drive 296 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.759 the story, statement of on the case, right, and in fact you 297 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.640 can you can download on on unning Acom when you find the book. You 298 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.680 can find a plan on a page for actually this one. And so let's 299 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:40.960 say we want to get employees involved with on the case. So you do 300 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.880 an on the case, a words program, and you let everyone employe. 301 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.599 We're going to have the employee the month is going to be based on their 302 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.640 ability to either be a reliable, responsive or resourceful or, ideally all three. 303 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:56.319 Great. We're going to include some aspect of on the case in employee 304 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.799 valuations. Right. So boom, all of a sudden I got to pay 305 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.480 attention. We're going to do a fun little video to introduce the idea. 306 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.640 Super Goofy, because we're a count you know. It is a joker brand, 307 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.079 but a fun idea of going to the extreme to deliver customer service. 308 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:17.000 So very funny little video that you did and a bunch of other things that 309 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.880 get employees excited about it. We only need sex. Believe it or not, 310 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.640 now it took place probably a year and a half to complete all of 311 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:32.519 the employee and all of the customer activities, HMM, before they actually took 312 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:36.799 it to the marketplace. Yeah, that work, that extra one. I 313 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.480 mean it's time right like that. I think that's one of the main reasons 314 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:45.039 why we have brand all wrong is because we think it's a quick sort of 315 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.440 fix, quick problem solved, when in reality there's a lot of time involved 316 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.599 actually get everything that's involved around brand properly sort of set up right. And 317 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.240 then so often, will you know, is when I put my agency had 318 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.240 on, we'll get a call and say hey, we need a new brand 319 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.319 and we have three weeks and will say, you know, buy the book, 320 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:08.400 knock yourself out, because you really can't do a good job in three 321 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.559 weeks because you can't do the employee assessment, you can't do the customer assessment, 322 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.640 you can't do the market place, you can't do the homework that you 323 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.759 need. And so the result is you're going to have you're going to get 324 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.440 the executive committee together and you're going to ask so, what do you think? 325 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.319 And what do you think, and what do you think? And you're 326 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.440 going to get an opinions and somebody's going to say, I really believe in 327 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.279 this. And so that's the brand. And and the thing is that in 328 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.599 that moment in time you have defeated the idea, because it's like a house 329 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.200 and and he's a really strong foundation, because otherwise it just, you know, 330 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.240 you huff and you put your blow that sucker down really easily. So 331 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.960 it is worth taking the time, if you're going to make a change, 332 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.960 to get it right, because there's always time to fix it. But if 333 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.839 you really shortcut this process, it's rare that you will get something amazing. 334 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:06.319 When I think practically about what we're inviting listeners into and this episode and I'm 335 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:10.480 thinking about all that's involved in brand, I mean there's a million sort of 336 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.759 a house we could give people. Hey, try this or do this, 337 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.000 but a lot of what it comes down to for for me, drew, 338 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.519 is like I want people to have mindset shifts that they can carry forward with 339 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.160 them. Right and no, that's the desire of yours as well. And 340 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.720 obviously when you write a book and you have that type of medium, you're 341 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:32.200 trying to do that in a longer for worm way. But what would you 342 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.839 tell us as we start to wrap up this episode around maybe some mindset shifts 343 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:44.160 or some house to practically approach brand and maybe a new way? So this 344 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.599 is the so at the end of chapter one, which is called clear away 345 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.240 the clutter, I have something that I call the clear away the clutter pledge, 346 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.160 and if you don't mind, I'm just going to read it, because 347 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.400 everything start here. So, and this is for the leader of the Marketing 348 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.400 Organization, but we could do this for our personal brands. To I will 349 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:11.680 focus relentlessly on a handful of strategic projects or priorities. Right. I will 350 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.960 have the courage to say no, two distractions, no more. Hey, 351 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:22.759 look, squirrel, we're not going to do that. I will delegate everything 352 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:29.880 except the things only I can do that move the organization forward. I won't 353 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.319 add am I to do list without taking something off of it. Thank you, 354 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.880 Marie. CONDO. Bring in a new piece of clothes. We got 355 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:40.319 to take one out, and I will block thirty minutes a day for thinking 356 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:45.759 big. And the reason this chapter is so important is, again, it 357 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:49.240 gets you in the mindset. We're not going to try to boil the ocean, 358 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:53.079 we're not going to try to solve every single problem, but we have 359 00:26:53.160 --> 00:27:00.960 a path to success. By tightening up everything right, we're gonna get a 360 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:06.000 little bit of focus and that focus is going to be incredibly liberating. Love 361 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.839 a true has been a fascinating conversation. I mean you give away twelve steps 362 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:14.519 in the book to building and Unbeatable Bee to be brand we there's no way 363 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.079 we could have covered all twelve, but you did a great job of bringing 364 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.200 in some of what we're considering when we think of be to be branding and 365 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.519 all that goes into it. Any final thoughts as we start to wrap up 366 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.680 here? You know I so in the book there's one. There's a framework 367 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.000 called Cat's courageous, artful, thoughtful and scientific, and I like this framework 368 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.400 for a number of reasons, because it is a progression and you got to 369 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:42.440 start with a courageous strategy, because if you don't dare to be distinct, 370 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:48.519 you're going to just be the same as everybody else. Artful ideation is just 371 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.240 recognizing there is this element of design, there is the element of copy. 372 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.680 These things matter and you can do this. And then we get to thoughtful 373 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:02.440 execution. And what I like about thoughtful execution is we're not trying to get 374 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:07.680 your attention, we're trying to deliver things of value. That's the thoughtful part. 375 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.640 None of us want to be sold to. All of us could welcome 376 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:15.240 information that we either that makes this laugh or as helpful to us in one 377 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.559 aspect of our life. And then, lastly, and here's the fun part 378 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.240 of this world, you can be courageous, artful and thoughtful and still fail. 379 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.359 And you could fail because you don't use the scientific method, you don't 380 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.599 have a little bit of math, and I'm a lot of marketers go south 381 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.000 on this one. It's not that hard. In the book I talk a 382 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:37.799 lot about how you can create very inexpensive ways of monitoring your your success. 383 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.400 So beat cats, be the cool cats of marketing and you'll kill it. 384 00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:47.000 We will be the cool cats. I love it. Well, drew thank 385 00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.079 you so much for stopping by be to be growth. For those that want 386 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.680 to pick up the book you, I know you've mentioned it a little bit 387 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.240 here in that the episode, but tell us how we can best connect with 388 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.119 you, and then what renegades doing as well? Sure so you can can 389 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.839 renegade on renegadecom. You can find the book there. Books also available and 390 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:08.440 for formats on Amazon and I always welcome you know, hit me up on 391 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.160 Linkedin. Let me know you listen to the episode. If you want a 392 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.200 chapter of the book, I'm happy to send you one. Fantastic. Can 393 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:21.240 connect with me over on Linkedin as well. Just Search Benjie Block and we're 394 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.200 having conversations like this one that we just had withdrew all the time here and 395 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:30.319 be to be growth. We love these conversations to help inform and our own 396 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.000 innovation right in our marketing strategies. So make sure, if you have yet 397 00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.400 to subscribe to the show, to do that on whatever your favorite podcast platform 398 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:45.160 is. We're releasing new episodes five days a week and so we really appreciate 399 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.480 you subscribing to the show. Drew, thanks for being here on be to 400 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.400 be growth. Men, Benjie, thank you, man five shows a week. 401 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.680 It's incredible. Good for you, it's fun and I love I love 402 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.799 getting to chat with you, and we know our listeners get a ton out 403 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.680 of this. So to everybody listening, Hey, keep doing work that matters 404 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:21.039 and will be back real soon with another episode. If you enjoyed a day 405 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:25.119 show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoyed today 406 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.920 show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're 407 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.200 listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, 408 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.359 share the love by texting it to a friend who would find it insightful. 409 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:37.759 Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.