Practical Tips for Future CMOs, with Christelle Flahaux

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:16.120 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth. We 2 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:21.600 made it. Another week is in the books. Welcome to Friday's episode of 3 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.679 B Tob Growth. I hope that you've had a great week working on whatever 4 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:30.000 marketing projects you've been working on. And as we round out the week, 5 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:35.640 here we are playing another replay episode. Now I realize a lot of the 6 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:40.880 conversations that I have and the people that we spotlight on be tob growth. 7 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:45.960 There CMOS right, chief marketing officers, their directors of marketing. We're having 8 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:51.280 these high level conversations, or was we call them conversations from the front lines 9 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:59.159 of marketing. Today I want to throw it to an episode where Christell is 10 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:06.200 about to break down real practically, some tips for those that want to be 11 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.959 CMOS one day. What can we be working on now, if we are 12 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.879 not currently in the C suite, to set ourselves up for success down the 13 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:22.719 road? This is a great conversation, something that I feel is definitely evergreen 14 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:27.719 and worth revisiting, and so today's conversation, Chris Tell's going to give us 15 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:38.519 some practical tips for future CMOS. Enjoy. Hey, everyone, welcome back 16 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.159 to be to be growth. My name is Olivia Hurley, and today I'm 17 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:48.920 joined by Christel Flahoe, who's the VP of marketing at fortress Iq. Hi, 18 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.319 cristall, how you doing today? I'm good, Olivia. Thanks for 19 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:55.560 having me on. Oh my gosh, of course, I'm so excited. 20 00:01:55.719 --> 00:02:00.280 So to kind of recap some conversations we are having. Previously I was asking 21 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.079 you one thing that you were, you know, noticing in the market and 22 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.080 anything that you would suggest doing a different way, and you were saying that 23 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:15.759 you you hear and you see a general resistance to demand Gen marketers being CMOS, 24 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:22.199 and you were saying oftentimes cmos come up through the product marketing line and 25 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:24.719 you disagree with that. And I want to just jump right in and and 26 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:30.039 here why you think that is, why you think that see it demand gen 27 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.759 marketers aren't necessarily given the chance, and also why you think that they're totally 28 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.879 equipped to be in that seat. Yeah, for sure. So I think 29 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:42.400 if you think about the demand Jen roll right, it's relatively new. There 30 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:47.240 was no demand Jen twenty years ago and I think today now a lot of 31 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:53.520 those people that are, you know, became the demand Gen experts early on 32 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:58.159 are now getting to that stage in their career where they're vying for CMO jobs, 33 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.360 and I think there's a resist stints because of tradition and you know, 34 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:09.240 product marketers or brand marketers make better to SMOS and to me. You know 35 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:14.840 you need a full Stacksmo, and I think that that's starting to happen as 36 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:21.000 well, where people are requesting full Stacksmos, because you can't just be single 37 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:24.080 threaded if you're a CMO. I think it's one of those jobs where you 38 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:30.439 have to juggle so many balls at the same time right. So you know, 39 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:34.520 one minute you're talking about revenue and demand John and the next minute you're 40 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.080 talking about brand and then the next minute you're talking about customer marketing and advocacy 41 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:43.400 and also other stuff. So you have to pivot fairly quickly. But I 42 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.080 think the problem with being just focused on a product marketer, like if you're 43 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:52.400 a CEO looking for a CMO, you know you're trying to solve the problem 44 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:57.439 that you have today and you're not necessarily hiring for someone who can solve all 45 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:01.680 the problems there are going to happen down the line. So I think when 46 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:08.319 folks are looking for a CMO, look for a full Stacksmo. And look 47 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:12.680 for someone who's a little bit stronger and demand Jen, just because I think 48 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:17.360 you need those skills to be able to be a successful CMO. So what 49 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:26.639 are the skills and experiences that product marketers have that demand Jen marketers might not? 50 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.439 So I think the technical savvy of the product to right. If I 51 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:36.480 look at the individuals that are closest to product management, to understanding the product, 52 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:45.879 right, there are the translators of sometimes very technical things into marketing messages, 53 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:48.920 and I think that's one skill that demand Jen. If you've just been 54 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:54.360 demandjine and you haven't been exposed to all the other departments, that's something that's 55 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:58.879 hard to do, especially if you're in a field or you know that you're 56 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:03.000 trying to market that is very technical, right. I got my stripes, 57 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.759 I think, if you want to go of that, when I was at 58 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:11.920 map are, which is a had technology, and I had no idea what 59 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:16.519 it was, and if I didn't have a very strong product marketing team and 60 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.639 a very strong partner to be able to translate all that stuff so that I 61 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.360 can go, you know, create ads and, you know, do do 62 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.480 fun campaigns, I don't think I would have been successful. So I do 63 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:35.319 think they are the translators for that technical part of the company into the Marketing 64 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:42.680 Organization. So why is it valuable to have a demand Gen practitioner in the 65 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.639 C suite? So I guess a broader question might be or actually a more 66 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.639 specific question might be, like what are the problems that a CMO is going 67 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:59.920 to encounter that a demand Jen practitioner can best resolve? Yeah, great question, 68 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.879 and for me the demand practitioner is usually very logical. They're the they're 69 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:11.519 the science part of the brain, right, like I am. You look 70 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.360 at my career, I'm way more science than I am art. I appreciate 71 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.560 art, I can dabble in art, but you know that's not that's not 72 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:25.600 my background. So I think the science of it in the logical conversations that 73 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:30.000 you have to have when you're in the C suite, the numbers and tying 74 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:34.079 those too, revenue and being able to understand those metrics and make decisions off 75 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.399 of those metrics. I mean, if you look at product marketing, there 76 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:44.439 are really no metrics for product marketers other than content creation. And you know 77 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:49.199 you can extrapolate some sort of information from the content that they produce. But 78 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:55.800 you know traditionally they're not. They have not been metrics driven marketers where Demandsen 79 00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:01.319 like we live and breathe with metrics and how much pipelines created and, you 80 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:05.519 know, conversion rates and and all that other stuff. So I think that 81 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:11.160 as you get into a CMO role or an executive role, that starts to 82 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.800 become really important because at the end of the day, you know, the 83 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:17.519 decision is, what are the things we want to go invest in for the 84 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:24.560 most are and demand Gen marketers and that's that's a daily conversation. So I 85 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:29.839 think just in that regard they have the skills to be able to be in 86 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.480 the sea suite. I also think demand en crosses multiple functions. Right, 87 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:39.240 if you think of all the things that go into a campaign, that go 88 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:45.759 into website development, that you good, that go into any sort of initiative 89 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.160 run by demand Jen, you're pulling in people from a bunch of different parts 90 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:54.319 of the organization, right, like product marketing, for the message calms, 91 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:58.519 if there's a press release attached to it, content, you know wherever that 92 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.839 sits of its own role or for rolls up to product marketing. So you 93 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:09.040 have this person that can collaborate or you know if they're a good demanda market 94 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.199 right, collaborate across different aspects of the organization to be able to go get 95 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:18.120 stuff done, and I think that's another key skill, is this the ability 96 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:24.759 to collaborate not only within the marketing organization but obviously across other organization. So 97 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:31.159 I'm curious what you might recommend a demand en marketer do or be involved in 98 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:37.360 if they are hoping to end up in that CMO seat. Get as much 99 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.480 experience as you can. Write. If you want to be, or reckoud 100 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.120 be recognized as a full stock marketer, you know, sit in all those 101 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.840 meetings, volunteer for projects. One of the things that I did early on 102 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.279 in my career when I was a field marketer, is I sat in a 103 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:00.960 lot of sales meetings and I got asked, you know, to be part 104 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.320 of sales leadership and I was kind of the the marketing representative. But what 105 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.919 it allowed me to do is understand how sales works, understand things about pipeline, 106 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.240 understand deal dynamics, understand more about customers and what they wanted and just 107 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:22.080 being an active listener in those situations. I was then able to then take 108 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:26.440 that back into the programs that I was running and execute them, I think 109 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:33.879 better than anybody else because I understood what was happening at the field level and 110 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.440 I wasn't necessarily contributing a ton the like right to some of the the forecast 111 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.799 calls and but I listened and if you can make the time to listen to 112 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.480 those types of of meetings, I think it's really important. Same thing with 113 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:52.240 analyst relations, right. I I spent most of my career thinking analyst relations 114 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.799 was just this magic that happened and it didn't relate to anything that I was 115 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.519 doing. And you know, when I got to host analytics as the CMO 116 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:07.159 and an analysts were very, very important to our our go to market motion 117 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:13.360 and seeing how that translated into air cover for demand Jen and things that we 118 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:20.960 could go do with analysts that allowed us to have better impact for our programs. 119 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.080 I mean that was eye opening to me and I wouldn't have known any 120 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.519 of that until, like, I actually had to go do it. But 121 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.080 you know, just my advice is listen as much as you can and ask 122 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.720 to sit in on meetings and so you can kind of understand how all the 123 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:43.600 pieces are supposed to fit together. So sales and analysts be involved, sitting 124 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.559 on their meetings, listen to them. Is that going to translate not only 125 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:52.960 into knowledge and understanding and anticipating problems to come, but is it also going 126 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.679 to translate into how you speak to other members of the sea sweeter or the 127 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.120 communications across the Executive Board? Yeah, for sure. I think it allows 128 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:11.120 you to see how effective communication happens right and you know where you lean into 129 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:16.440 certain things and and where you you know, just become an active listener in 130 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.399 the background. So I think that's one of the skills as an executive that 131 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.000 is not taught anywhere right, like can't take class on that. And just 132 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:30.320 kind of understanding the dynamics right, because every single person on that sea sweet 133 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.159 has a different driver, right the head of sales. Their biggest drivers revenue 134 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:39.960 right and making their number right. So if you can tie anything that you're 135 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:45.039 asking for, if you can tie the conversation to what they're going to get 136 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.559 out of it, then you're going to be successful. And then translate that 137 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.480 to finance right, like marketer spent a lot of money. So if you 138 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:58.240 can understand what is important to the CFO right, things like the Kak and 139 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:03.919 even a and those terms, and what those mean it's relatively easy for you 140 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.440 to go walk into a meeting and say, I think I can go help 141 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.960 reduce cost here, or I think I can ensure that we had our pipeline 142 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.440 number by doing this. Those are the conversations that they're going to have. 143 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:18.879 They're not going to care about number of mqls or they're not going to care 144 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.960 about you know, I have to have a new website because I hate the 145 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.879 design. Right, like you are never going to get more money from a 146 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.519 CFO if that's your leading argument. Right. The argument has to be around 147 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:37.000 increasing conversion rates. And you know, I could spend less on campaigns if 148 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.840 I had a website that worked better. And here are those conversion rates. 149 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.840 So I think those are the things that you need to learn to be able 150 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.240 to get what you want as a marketer right and what's good for the business. 151 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.440 I had a had a sales early, early on in my career at 152 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.159 a Reba who told me, and he one of the first things he said 153 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:58.799 to me, he was like, you scratch my back, I'll scratch worse, 154 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.399 and it was literally that right, like you look out for me and 155 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.559 I will look out for you, like you understand my business and I will 156 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:13.200 help you get you know what you need and that that is true today, 157 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.960 right like, if you can, you know there's a gift to the get 158 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:22.039 and and you have to know that. As an executive, as a marketer, 159 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.080 you're probably brainstorming outside the box ideas to engage your prospects and customers working 160 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:31.039 remotely, and you've probably thought about sending them direct mail to break through the 161 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:35.080 zoom fatigue. But how do you ship personalized gifts to remote decision makers when 162 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.600 you have no idea where they're sitting? At BB growth, we use the 163 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.879 craft and platform to send hyper personalized gifts to anyone working from anywhere. Craft 164 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.639 of makes it easy for your prospects and customers to pick and personalize their own 165 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.639 gift in real time and offers highly secure data capture, so decision makers feel 166 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.639 comfortable submitting their home addresses for shipping purposes. To get your own personalized craft 167 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:03.799 em gift, go to CRAFTOM DOT IO growth to schedule a demo and receive 168 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.120 a complementary personalized gift from craft h them. To claim your personalized gift, 169 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:15.440 go to CRAFTOM DOT IO growth. So I'm curious what you think. If 170 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.639 someone didn't take any of your advice about sitting in on meetings with sales and 171 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:26.720 analysts and various other departments and just learning as much as they could? Do 172 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:35.559 you think a demandin practitioner or a product marketing practitioner would be better equipped, 173 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.759 based on their typical day to day to have those seasweet conversations? I think 174 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.240 I think they both could. I mean, I'm partial to demanagin just because 175 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.360 I do think you're exposed to a lot more than you are product marketing. 176 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:56.000 You know, there's there's different aspects and different departments, even just within demand 177 00:14:56.039 --> 00:15:00.559 generation, that a product marketer doesn't necessarily have. I also think the metrics 178 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.600 piece right. Like I said before, there's not a lot of metrics and 179 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.679 product marketing and it's fine. I think that's fine, right. I think 180 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.279 I think that's okay. Not Everything has to be a metric, but as 181 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.120 you grow, you know, in your career and you get to the sea 182 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.600 suite, metrics do become relatively important. So I mean, I think they 183 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.240 both can do it. I think the full stack marketer is probably the best 184 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:26.320 person suited. Those are rare, but if you look at CMO tenure, 185 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.519 right, it's the shortest tenureed executive in the sea suite, and I do 186 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.759 think it's because people hire for the problem they have today, not for the 187 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.639 long term. Will you hit on exactly why I ask that question, which 188 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:45.879 was which was mentioning the product marketing doesn't necessarily work with metrics in the same 189 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.960 way, and so I love that you cleared that up for me. And 190 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:54.639 then I'm curious if we could take this all the way back to the studs 191 00:15:54.679 --> 00:16:02.039 here and think through if somebody wants to somebody who's early in their demanden career 192 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.519 wants to end up in that sea suite, what's the first thing that they 193 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.759 have to do, like really, really practically, what are the relationships they 194 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.440 need to be making? And you mentioned sitting in on meetings. But more 195 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:18.559 than that, you know what is step one? What step to nail your 196 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.879 job that you have today right. Get to the point where you can do 197 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.440 your job in your sleep. You know the metrics right, like you just 198 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.679 it's almost robotic right, like it's just you know what to go do, 199 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.720 you know what to look for, you know how to fix things. So 200 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.759 just get really, really good at your job, understanding the text, act 201 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:44.879 right all those things and have a playbook. Have the playbook that you can 202 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.000 in any job you could go refer to and say this is my demand, 203 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.919 Jon played book, this is what I look at, this is what I 204 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.639 do first, and start to compile that, because that will help you as 205 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.799 you get another job. Right, you just kind of take out that playbook 206 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:02.519 and say, okay, what do I need to change? But you know, 207 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.480 this is kind of the standard that's made me successful. Once you do 208 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.720 that, then start trying to understand all the other pieces and spend some time 209 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.559 in product marketing, you know, to spend some time with your finance business 210 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.519 partner. I mean that for me allowed me to understand how finance operated. 211 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:26.119 I had the most fantastic business, finance business partner when I was a jive 212 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.200 and he had no idea about marketing. You know, he was like, 213 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.359 I don't know, I just knew you guys spend a lot of money, 214 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:36.240 you know, and I was trying to build a waterfall because they didn't have 215 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:38.480 one yet, right, like defining that newly and m qls Q, All 216 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.279 that other stuff, and it was the two of us working together and him 217 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.880 understanding my business, me understanding the questions that he was asking, that we 218 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:53.440 were able to get build this very seamless waterfall that everybody understood, all the 219 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.119 way up to the CEO, and that gave me exposure to the CFO. 220 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:03.000 It gave me exposure to all lot more people. A very small project, 221 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:04.480 right, and the grand scheme of things, it was pretty big. But 222 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:10.240 you know, just the two of US working together to go figure this out. 223 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.119 That, you know, was something that usually has a lot of tension 224 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:17.440 built around it. Right. Likewise, marketing, spending all this money, 225 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.680 there's no result, saleses and have leads. You know, finance gets involved, 226 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.920 they start to do all this. You know, agnostic reporting, that 227 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:30.920 it tends to become a very uncomfortable position for all parties. So do things 228 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.039 like that right, like get to know your finance people, understand what they're 229 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.720 looking for and that'll give you that exposure. And then just you know, 230 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.960 within the organization, like sign up for projects. I don't think we're as 231 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:48.440 stiloed as we used to be when it comes to to projects. I think, 232 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.640 you know, teams are strapped and and people are you know, you 233 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:53.880 need help on all sides. You know, one of the things I did 234 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:59.400 early on in my career is website stuff. I signed up to help do 235 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.079 QA. I signed up to, you know, learn how to do SEO. 236 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:08.119 What what words mattered and, as you you know, kind of go 237 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.799 into the different organizations. You'll, if you listen, you'll be able to 238 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:18.359 see where you can step in and either help or be an active listener. 239 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.599 What were the positive results in your career that came from taking initiative like that 240 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:27.279 and getting involved in learning so much? Good question. So I think you 241 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:32.920 know, at a Reba I was one field marketing manager. I was hired, 242 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.680 was one of three early on and I just asked to do more and 243 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.960 it did more events. I talked to a lot of people. Actually had 244 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.720 somebody pretty recently asked me, like God, you know so many people, 245 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:52.039 and my first reaction is always like one mold right, like I've been around 246 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.440 for a while and you know, like I have all these connections and but 247 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.960 the truth of it is, like I'm an active networker and I stay in 248 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:07.039 touch with people and I've made friends outside of my little bubble that I started 249 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.480 early on in my career right at a Reba. And so for me, 250 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:18.359 I think it's leveraging those when you need to, but also always being there, 251 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.559 you know, when somebody needs piece of advice or just wants to check 252 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.599 in. But so back to REBA. You know, I took on after 253 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.200 about six months. I took on the whole film Marketing Organization. You know, 254 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.079 I stepped up to the plate. I said I wanted to do it, 255 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.519 and that was hard, right, like I didn't know if I could 256 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:41.079 do it. I had never done film marketing before and but I did it 257 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.000 and I think that kind of opened a ton of doors for me. Right, 258 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.759 I got put on sales leadership, I got to build a global team. 259 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.240 When marketing automation came out, all right, like there was no demand 260 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:57.839 done twenty years ago, and I was able to be curious and, you 261 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:03.559 know, understand what marketing automation was and how it could help and through my 262 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.759 name in the ring to say I want to take field marketing and make it 263 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.960 a bigger demand general and so I did and got to learn all about marketing 264 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:17.799 automation. I got to build workflows and sales force, things that I don't 265 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:21.880 think a lot of marketers have been able to do in their careers. And 266 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:26.680 you know, that kind of elevated me to this demand Gen metrics expert in 267 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:32.720 the company. You know, and then from there kind of took that playbook 268 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.680 and took it to to layout and you know, did the same thing. 269 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:41.039 They're built out a pretty big field marketing organization and built it out globally as 270 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:48.160 well. So I think it's not being afraid to step into a roll that 271 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.839 you may not have all the skills for right and telling people that right. 272 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.279 Like I had my CEO and host analytics. We were talking about where the 273 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.960 strs should live, whether it should be in sales or whether it should be 274 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.799 a marketing I have worked with US d our teams. I built one but 275 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.480 really didn't manage it. I left before I could manage it. But I've 276 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:15.839 never done it. And his his logic was give the process oriented person, 277 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.359 which is me, and metrics driven person, which is me, the people 278 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.559 that need the most process and the most metrics and the organization and she'll figure 279 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:27.599 it out. So, you know, have that reputation of be the figure 280 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:33.400 outer all the team, because then you'll get you'll get projects and just be 281 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.559 open to it. I think that's the big thing is. You know, 282 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.440 I think there's a study that women don't, you know, put their name 283 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.359 in the ring if they don't feel like they have they did. They don't 284 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.799 check all the boxes from a career perspective and I think that's wrong. Right, 285 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:55.880 like everyone looks for a Unicorn, but you know the you can't. 286 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.640 You can't find that Unicorn. So be vulnerable, tell them what you don't 287 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.400 know how to do and then hire the right people around you that do know 288 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.279 how to do it, and that'll be your key to success. I think 289 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:12.480 this is probably my version of this is going to be a very reductionist summary 290 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:18.400 of part of your story, but but I think the essence is still true. 291 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:26.160 It was those first opportunities of initiative and learning and gumption and confidence that 292 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:32.160 really set the trajectory. Obviously, tons and tons of hard work and and 293 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:34.799 like throwing your name in the ring and things like that and continuing to be 294 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.920 like I'll try it, I'll try it, but but that that early in 295 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:44.640 your career mindset seems to have set the trajectory. That's so cool and I 296 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:49.200 think that's something that anybody in their career at any point can just kind of 297 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:56.799 like shoulder on. That's awesome. Well, if there was one thing in 298 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.559 this episode that you wanted people to do or resonate with or, you know, 299 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.839 take to heart or something like that. What would it be? You 300 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:10.599 know, just listen, right, and I think that's the hardest skill. 301 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:12.839 You know, if I, if I were to go back, you know, 302 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:18.680 twenty years and tell my twenty year old self the key to success, 303 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.279 it would be to just listen and listen with intent. Try to understand what's 304 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.440 going on around you. Don't be so silo, don't be so in your 305 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.160 lane that you know you can't absorb what's going on around you. And I 306 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:36.920 think that helps right because, you know, I wasn't, I didn't lead 307 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.599 acts project, I didn't, you know, I was an integral and a 308 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.240 certain project when I was younger in my career, but I was a witnessed 309 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.240 to it and I saw what it looked like, right, and I saw 310 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:52.759 the challenges that happen and how how people overcame them and and that's what you 311 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.319 internalize so that when that situation comes up later down the road, you're like, 312 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.480 Aha, I was part of something and I this is how it went. 313 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.640 You know, this could be how we approach this particular situation. So 314 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:11.440 listen and listen with intent and remember those things, because that's how that's how 315 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:17.680 you're going to absorb and learn. Crystal, how can people connect with you 316 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:23.559 and to learn more about you and more about Fortress Iq? Sure, so 317 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.759 on. Linkedin, Cristel, wow, if you're going to send me a 318 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:33.599 linkedin invite, make sure you tell me where you heard me talk, but 319 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.440 you can. You can find me there on twitter, Marketing Stella. Stella 320 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.200 is my nickname, by the way. And then fortress I q. So 321 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:45.359 I've been there for about a year. We are revolutionizing the process discovery space 322 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:51.720 with computer vision and AI, so check us out on fortress I qcom. 323 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:55.480 We also have a podcast that I'll just plug. It's called hello human. 324 00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:00.240 That's where we talk about leaders in AI and talk about practical applications of AI, 325 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.960 and so that's a pretty fun podcast we have going. So definitely give 326 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:10.799 that a listen. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at 327 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.079 sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish we produce podcast for some of the 328 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.079 most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, 329 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.680 linkedin content, blog post and more. We're on a mission to produce 330 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:33.640 every leader's favorite show. 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