Transcript
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Yeah,
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welcome back to BTB growth. I'm Leslie
Cruise with Sweet fish media and today
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we are continuing our deep dive into
demand generation. I'm really excited
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to be joined today by Caylee Edmondson,
director of demand gen at chile piper
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kelly. Thanks so much for joining me
today. Absolutely, thank you for having
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me. Of course I'm so excited to talk to
you as you know, we're talking about
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all things demand gen, which is why I
would love it if you could share a
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little bit about your role, a chilly
piper and kind of explain to our
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listeners what a day in the life of a
director of demand gen looks like. Yeah,
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absolutely, it's such a broad topic and
I'm so glad that you're doing the steep
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dive into demand jin because as we know
and I'm sure as all the listeners know
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at this point in the podcast journey
that everyone seems to define demand
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gen quite differently. So for us a
chilly piper and our current stage of
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growth, we are defining demand jin as I
guess like two buckets or two motions
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primarily being a brand awareness
motion and um performance marketing
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motion. Right? So those are like are
two primary buckets and a day in the
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life can be quite different. So it
depends on the day, but primarily for
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us it's all about focusing on creating
demand in the space for our product
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while also capturing the demand that
already exists. And I mean based on
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just that very vague I level answer
that means that a day in the life can
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range from anything from marketing
automation tasks within whatever you're,
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you know in a platform is to optimizing
Salesforce Reports, paid programs on
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different platforms. It's kind of all
over the board, which is why I love to
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mansion. Yeah, absolutely. And stepping
back a little and you know in your own
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words, can you define dimension? Yeah.
So I think and I think it plays a
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little bit to what I just said and of
course every I think it's very
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dependent upon where you're at with
your stage of growth, right? So for us
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our marketing team is a total of nine
people and that includes everything
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from like product marketing over to
partnerships. We all roll up to a
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marketing function. So the way that we
define demand gen right now is all
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about those two motions, right? So
we're focused primarily on creating
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demand and that can fall anything from
podcasts, webinars events etcetera, to
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also capturing demand. So where are
people in the space that are showing
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buying intent, Adwords, G two
additional review sides etcetera. And
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that's kind of how we define it today
now as we continue to grow and you know
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our our company's A. R. R. Continues to
shift that definition might change
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right? Like we probably will get to a
point where marketing ops does not roll
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under demand jin all of the reporting
and analytics might need a dedicated
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human to own and operate that. But for
right now it's all kind of rolled into
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one. It makes our it makes our cycle
very seamless, right? So we're putting
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out the ads, we're seeing the results
on those pay channels were optimizing.
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It's all very intuitive but again might
change over time. Yeah. Yeah exactly.
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And that's actually segues great into
my next question because I've talked to
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several people so far about just how
much marketing itself has really
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evolved in the past few years and
obviously demand gen is a facet of that
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with everything going on in the world.
The pandemic, but not only the pandemic
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just in general, I mean marketing is
constantly evolving. So what trends in
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demand jin do you feel like may really
be transforming in the next few years?
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Oh, that's such a good question. Yes,
so quite honestly, I feel that we've
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moved in the last week, maybe 4 to 5
years to this huge motion around
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focusing on pay to play. But I think
over the next few years we're going to
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see that trend fade slowly. Don't get
me wrong, for brands that are still
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focused on growing brand awareness,
paid to play will still be a facet or a
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subset of that motion. But I think that
this motion around building a brand
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that's authentic and genuine and true
to an audience that believes in what
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you're pushing, providing value add
content, those things is going to
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become way more important than
primarily focusing on this pay to play
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game that I feel we've been stuck in
for the last few years. Yeah. What
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exactly do you mean by pay to place? Do
you mean like paid? Yeah, Yeah, yeah,
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Yeah, putting a large percentage of
your marketing budget on a PPC PPC
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based strategy. Yeah. Yeah. And you
know, you mentioned content a little
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bit in there, but let's talk a little
bit more about content production. I
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think that this is extremely relevant
to my role here as we fish. So I kind
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of wanted to know in a demand gen
strategy. Why is prioritizing content
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production so important? Yeah,
absolutely. I think it's been said
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forever that content is king and that's
no different today. If anything,
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content is more important today than it
ever has been differentiating yourself,
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especially for us. Right at chile piper
were in the smart tech space where
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there are 8000 other vendors. So there
are a lot of other competitors or even
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adjacent platforms that are trying to
get in front of the same buyer, the
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same persona. And the way that you
stand out and differentiate yourself
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amongst the crowd is through content.
Right? And its content, that's actually
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a value add to that user. At the end of
the day, you should be here as a brand
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providing content. That's going to help
these users in their day to day sell on
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the back end, right? That way, they
know who you are and they'll come,
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they'll follow your brand, they'll
follow your story, they'll become
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invested in your company and then
whenever they are ready to buy, they
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already know who you are. So it's a
much easier process, right? But its
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content is king above all. And I think
that that's going to continue to stand
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out over the next couple of years. Yeah,
I love that. And I love the idea of
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kind of making yourself to go to in
that specific area, you know, and it's
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like they're they'll come to you
essentially because you are making
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yourself to go to you are building
those relationships. Exactly. And it's
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even this like new trend that we see
where you know, hubspot require
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acquired the hustle and outreach with
sales hacker, it's happening over and
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over again where B two B sas companies
are realizing that a media company is
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almost the way to go. You need to think
of your marketing team of course as a
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marketing team. You need to be doing
all the marketing office, the reporting,
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the analytics, all the things that come
with it. But you also need to really
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prioritize thinking and acting almost
as if you are an internal media company
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for your brand. That's good stuff. What
do you think? Something is something
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that B two B marketers in this space
tend to get wrong? Oh, that's a tough
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one. My most recent soapbox. If we want
to dive in, I love it is around
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attribution, right? So I feel like I
get, you know, a lot of D. M. S. I have
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a lot of friends that a network with
that are also in a similar demand gen
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seat within their respective
organizations. And almost always it
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comes up. It's like, what is your
attribution model? How are you tracking
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success and by no means am I saying you
don't need an attribution model because
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like use what you've got leverage, what
you can, but it shouldn't be the end
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all be all source of truth. Especially
myself. I am deep in the weeds of all
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of the programs that I'm running and
executing and I get a much more
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accurate pulse and a read on if they're
working or failing based on being in
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those platforms and looking through the
numbers, looking through the data,
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reading comments on linkedin. Like You
need to dig through the weeds a little
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bit to get some of that qualitative
feedback and not rely 100 on what your
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salesforce crm is telling you. Yeah.
Yeah, that's that's so accurate. I
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completely great. Do you have any
examples specifically of what that
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might look like? That attribution model
and you know, dive a little bit more
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into why, why specifically you wouldn't
want to use that? Yeah. So like, don't
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get me wrong, we have reports and sales
for us. We are using a light
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attribution model. Last touch within
hubspot. It is what it is. But at the
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end of the day when we run a new
program, let's say that we're running
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an ad campaign, a new ad campaign to a
link to an audience. Um, that's
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advertising like a new video or
something for part of our product.
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What's not going to show up in
Salesforce is all of the comments,
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likes, feedback that's happening on
that post, Right. So we just had some
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one recently that took off and had tons
of success and we could tell it had
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tons of success because the people that
are liking and engaging with it have
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titles at the exact companies that we
want to get in front of and we want
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them to know our brand. None of that is
showing up in a Salesforce report
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though. It's all in the program that
you're, you know, that you're actually
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executing at that point in time. I'm
sure it would be different. There are
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tons of scenarios where things like
that could happen. But those aren't
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things that, you know, you're bored or
your c suite are actually going to be
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able to see in Salesforce. Those are
things that you're going to know
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because you're on the front lines
executing these programs. Yeah. So for
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those who are listening and they're
thinking of starting their own demands
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and playbook in their organization,
where do you suggest they start? What
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is step number one? So asking for a
demand gen, playbook is hard because I
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think that every organization is so, so
different. But for me, whenever I join
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a new company, of course, my very first
thing is to dig through whatever
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existing data points we do have so that
we can get a general direction of if a
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specific channel is working, what's
that messaging look like, what our
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target personas, etcetera. Once you
have that initial foundation of who you
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should be going after, roughly what you
think you should be saying to them and
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on what channel you should be saying it
on after that. For me, it's like
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building
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A prioritized framework, so capture the
demand that's already in the space. So
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look to channels where people are
showing active buying intent, um, those
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things most often end in Google, Ads G2,
right, there could be a few others
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depending on what industry or what
niche you're going after. But that's
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largely those things need to be in
foundation and you know, like for now,
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while we have cookie tracking
retargeting, right, if people are
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coming to your website and aren't
converting, you know that they're not a
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customer, haven't requested a demo or
sign up for free, etcetera, you should
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be getting retargeting ads out in front
of them so that they continue to think
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about your brand and understand your
value prop secondly then you can move
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on to more prospect testing, right? So
going a little bit more broad scale for
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people who maybe don't know who you are
yet, but that should come secondary. Um,
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and that should be in that motion
around creating demand. Yeah, so it's,
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it's pretty important to, you know,
start with that playbook and I think
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you mentioned this Arlington previously
but kind of start with that playbook
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and then from there kind of innovate
adapt and learn from kind of how that's
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working for you. Exactly. It's a game
of innovation. It's never like there is
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not a demanding playbook out there
where you like set it and forget it.
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That's just not the game we're in. And
especially because like for us right
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now, our primary persona are people
that look and think much like myself,
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dimension marketers and those are the
people that are in their own day to day,
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always innovating and optimizing and
trying new things and testing new
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things. So it's even harder to stand
out. And so were, you know, in this
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game of constant innovation. Absolutely.
Yeah. So talking to somebody who is,
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let's say a new market, our brand new
marketer in the space, really
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interested in demand, gen what advice
would you share with them to somebody
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who's kind of looking to transform into
that more of a demand general from just
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basic marketing. Yeah, absolutely. So I
think for me personally I can talk real
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quickly to like my own career
progression. I started out in digital
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marketing, but honestly at the time had
little to no idea what that actually
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meant. Um I just happened to be, you
know, one of the newest marketing
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members at the time, it was for a
healthcare company and they thought,
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okay here just take digital, we don't
really know what that is, but we know
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we're supposed to be doing it, so dig
in and learn. And quite honestly I have
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a degree in marketing and I can say
very clearly that I did not learn
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anything in college that I actually do
on a day to day basis from a work
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perspective. So for me it's like
learning on the spot. So if you're
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trying to get your feet wet into demand
jin or even into digital marketing so
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that you can kind of bridge that gap
into a demand general, you know, start
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something on the side on your own, roll
your sleeves up, see if you could, you
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know, or even if you have a friend
that's like launched a book or
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something, see if you can dig in and
help them start promoting that, get an
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understanding of who's going to read
that book? Where do they hang out? What
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spaces are they living in? What words
resonate with them And what words
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absolutely don't like? That's the best
way. And for me, it's always been like
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trial by error and learning by actually
doing mm That's good advice. Yeah. Some
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other advice I heard was to kind of
start your own e commerce, which I
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found really, really interesting
because it's like you're using your own
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money and you're not using company
money. That's kind of like monopoly
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money. You're using your own money,
your own funds to do all of these
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things yourself. You're completely
doing demanded by yourself with your
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money. So I thought that was exactly do
Exactly. And if you find something
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that's working really well, it's that
much more exciting because it's your
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own funds, but at the same time, if you
find something that is an absolute
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money pit, you're gonna feel it much
deeper than if you were playing with
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this corporate monopoly money from your
company. Oh my gosh, Yeah, I completely
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agree. Well, that's awesome, Kayleigh,
thank you so much. This has been so, so
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insightful. And where can people find
you online if they're interested in
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learning or hearing more from you? Yeah,
absolutely, I'm most active on linkedin,
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Caylee Edmondson. Um actually, piper,
feel free to come, follow me there,
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Thank you again so much for joining me,
carol beauty growth. Absolutely, thank
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you for having me
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for the longest time. I was asking
people to leave a review of GDP growth
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in apple podcasts, but I realized that
was kind of stupid because leaving a
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review is way harder than just leaving
a simple rating. So I'm changing my
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tune a bit instead of asking you to
leave a review, I'm just gonna ask you
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to go to beauty growth in apple
podcasts, scroll down until you see the
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ratings and reviews section and just
tap the number of stars you want to
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give us no review necessary. Super easy.
And I promise it will help us out a ton.
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If you want a copy of my book, content
based networking, just shoot me a text
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after you leave the rating and I'll
send on your way, Text me at four 074
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and I know 3, 3 - eight.