#CBN 14: ROI Positive in 28 Days with a B2B Podcast w/ Dylan Hey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.349 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.550 --> 00:00:12.669 I'm joined today by Dylan Hey. He's cofounder and CEO over at hate 3 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:16.589 digital. He's also the host of the SASS marketing show. Dylan, welcome 4 00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:18.949 to the show, man. How you doing today? Look and thank you 5 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:22.660 so much for having me on. I'm super excited to do another be to 6 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:26.019 be growth episode more excited to meet you as well. I felt like I've 7 00:00:26.059 --> 00:00:29.420 met Sony people across the team and this is the first time speaking on a 8 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:31.899 cool together. So yeah, thanks having me on. Yeah, absolutely, 9 00:00:32.060 --> 00:00:35.100 and I saw your name on my calendar because I just do it Google calendar 10 00:00:35.179 --> 00:00:36.729 tells me to do, and I was like, Oh, yes, today 11 00:00:36.770 --> 00:00:40.369 is the day I get to actually chat live with Dylan Hey. James Has 12 00:00:40.729 --> 00:00:43.490 Sung your praises long before I knew you. You and I have gotten to 13 00:00:43.729 --> 00:00:48.409 know each other through Linkedin, you know, Linkedin Family Hashtag, Linkedin fan 14 00:00:48.530 --> 00:00:51.399 whatever. Man. But this is going to be really good because you recently 15 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.560 started a podcast, the SASS marketing show, and this episode I think we're 16 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.039 going to use in our content based networking series because you've very much been running 17 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.349 the playbook that anyone listening to the show has heard James, myself and the 18 00:01:03.390 --> 00:01:07.629 entire sweet fish team try to Evangelize, and that is with an interview based 19 00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:11.390 be Tob podcast. You have a double edged sort it's content creation, but 20 00:01:11.549 --> 00:01:17.230 it's also relationship generation and you've been working both sides of that. So give 21 00:01:17.269 --> 00:01:21.099 us a little bit of context into your show, why you started it, 22 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:23.019 how you kind of envision both these sides, and then we'll get into a 23 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.579 little bit of your journey and some really great successes you've seen. In the 24 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:30.299 early days. I've been telling people about it and so I I thought we 25 00:01:30.379 --> 00:01:33.250 had the document it here for people to learn from. So give us a 26 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:34.530 little bit of back story and then we'll get into some of the tactics and 27 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:38.969 lessons learned. Man, sure, yeah, of course. So the the 28 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:42.530 reason that we started the podcast, or I started the podcast, was purely 29 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:46.170 based off of James's advice as well. Just to make sure I get that, 30 00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:49.239 get that in there. I know he'll appreciate that. So James and 31 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.760 I were talking about this. It must have been maybe even a year and 32 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.760 a half ago, or slightly longer, when I came to visit him in 33 00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:57.680 Orlando. We had a call day together like Disney and stuff. That was 34 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.200 fun and he was telling me back then that, hey, I should be 35 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:05.829 doing this podcasting and I knew about the power of that, but I didn't 36 00:02:05.829 --> 00:02:07.710 necessarily. I don't want to say I didn't have the time, but I 37 00:02:08.150 --> 00:02:12.870 couldn't. I was struggling to make the time to fit it into where I 38 00:02:12.990 --> 00:02:15.629 was at that point, so early on in our business. But to give 39 00:02:15.669 --> 00:02:19.419 a top level oversight, my first thing is I wish I started when James 40 00:02:19.460 --> 00:02:21.219 First told me about it, just to make that clean. I wish I 41 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:25.099 found the time. But we run a PPC and CRRO agency, so we 42 00:02:25.180 --> 00:02:30.250 do paid advertising for SASS and be to be software companies and we're a small 43 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:35.770 team of for been going for just under two years now and we we decided 44 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:38.530 to launch the AASS marketing show with those two angles in mind that you talked 45 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:43.289 about. So number one, I know that you, guys and James and 46 00:02:43.330 --> 00:02:47.120 everyone talks about it as like a relationship building angle which ultimately leads to sales. 47 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.199 Like I was purely thinking about it at from I love being other people, 48 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.039 I love building relationships with them. That's what I'm really good at and 49 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:57.719 I knew that that could become a good sales generate too for us. And 50 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.110 then the second angle is the content, as you mentioned, and more specifically 51 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:06.229 the branding. So because we're such a niche focused agency on working with B 52 00:03:06.430 --> 00:03:10.110 Tob Sas companies and we knew the building the best Sass and be to be 53 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:15.620 like SASS marketing podcast and interviewing the leading marketers at these SASS and be to 54 00:03:15.659 --> 00:03:22.340 be companies immediately through the like association principle, helps us build our brand because 55 00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:25.740 of people are seeing me and our team interviewing the lead marketers at companies like 56 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:29.969 drift and call and Lee and a refs, like we have done so far, 57 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:32.969 and it immediately gives us a little bit more credibility and authority as well. 58 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:37.449 So we came at it from the angle of number one and create, 59 00:03:37.530 --> 00:03:42.039 ultimately creating new leads for their business and Revenue Business. Some of those will 60 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.599 come pretty much immediately, which will talk about in terms of interview someone and 61 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.879 it transitions to our sales conversation. Many of them will come maybe six months, 62 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.520 twelve months, eighteen months down line, which is also great, and 63 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.629 it's just building those initial relationships. And then the second is the content. 64 00:03:57.710 --> 00:04:01.509 Pieces. Like I use the podcast now as my pillar piece of content for 65 00:04:02.150 --> 00:04:06.030 distribution across social and everything. So that's like a quick top level overview. 66 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:11.060 We're about, I think, thirteen episodes in. We've been just releasing weekly 67 00:04:11.259 --> 00:04:15.219 at the moment and already, as a result of the PODCAST, we've signed 68 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.699 like one new one new agency client, which makes the podcast like already significantly 69 00:04:19.779 --> 00:04:25.610 Roy positive and pay for itself. And we've also closed one sponsor who is 70 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:30.449 also like like just like having another agency client just where a lot less walk. 71 00:04:30.529 --> 00:04:32.930 So that's really nice. And there's multiple other people interest in sponsorships to 72 00:04:33.009 --> 00:04:39.399 and that's not even then taking into account the future revenues bringing in the relationship 73 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:43.399 building that's going on. Like I'm getting to build relationships with so many about 74 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.480 target by US right now and connect them with each other as well, which 75 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.439 is another really powerful thing. Oh coast. Yeah, Gary V talks about 76 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.550 the High School Party analogy. Right, when you're the kid who gets to 77 00:04:55.029 --> 00:04:59.069 host the Party when you're your parents are out of town, instantly you're the 78 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:00.550 cool kid. Doesn't matter if you were the cool kid before, but just 79 00:05:00.670 --> 00:05:03.350 go ahead and host the party. In the great thing about a pod guest 80 00:05:03.470 --> 00:05:09.139 is. It just takes starting right. I remember just a few weeks into 81 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:13.339 being a regular cohost on bdb growth, I did not have connections in the 82 00:05:13.420 --> 00:05:17.740 BB marketing world and I was interviewing the former CMO of Marquetto and we had 83 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:23.889 a one to one relationship and their company could could buy from us. He 84 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:26.649 knows people who could buy from us. When I tagged him on, linkedin 85 00:05:27.050 --> 00:05:30.769 other other CMOS and VP's of marketing at tech companies that come by from us 86 00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:34.569 or are seeing that. I want to get into kind of your thinking around 87 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:39.480 naming the show, the guest outreach, your follow up with the guests. 88 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:44.680 But I have to ask. So you mentioned you've only been like thirteen episodes 89 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.439 in. You're a team before doing a weekly show, which scares off a 90 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.670 lot of I talked to you know marketing teams of fifty that say we can't 91 00:05:50.670 --> 00:05:54.709 pull off a weekly show. So that's a follow up question. But I 92 00:05:54.750 --> 00:05:58.189 gotta DIG in. Tell me about the the lead you close. How did 93 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:00.589 that work? What do you think set you up well for that situation? 94 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:04.019 Because that's a question I get a lot. People see the value of the 95 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:09.379 long term content play the short, mid term and long term relationship play, 96 00:06:09.740 --> 00:06:12.459 but they're like how does it actually happen? So I would love for you 97 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:15.459 to kind of unpack that story as much as you can. Yeah, yeah, 98 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:18.689 I'll walk through that. So how that happened? was someone that I 99 00:06:18.850 --> 00:06:25.329 have been connected with on Linkedin for a long time but never had a conversation 100 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:30.730 with or spoken to. He he liked one of my posts that I posted 101 00:06:30.810 --> 00:06:34.879 from a previous podcast episode and I saw that and I thought, Hey, 102 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:38.959 this would be a really good time to get to know this person. So 103 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.600 I just sent him a linkedin message and said Hey, so you like the 104 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.160 podcast, post something along the lines of it might be cool to get you 105 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.509 on the show if you're interested. It was like super simple and then we 106 00:06:48.629 --> 00:06:53.189 just had a little bit of conversation about he asked me what, a bit 107 00:06:53.230 --> 00:06:57.029 more about the podcast. I did some asking about like what kind of topic 108 00:06:57.069 --> 00:07:00.860 we would cover, and then within like three days we'd agreed on the podcast 109 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:05.699 topic and we'd scheduled in the end, and basically from that first me messaging 110 00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:09.300 him off the back of him liking one of my post, from that message 111 00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:15.139 to contract being signed and first invoice being paid. I only know this so 112 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:16.730 much because James asked me about it to write, but it was I think 113 00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:19.850 it was twenty eight days, which is like awesome. It's really smooth. 114 00:07:19.930 --> 00:07:24.930 It's a really short time period from yes, he'd seen my linkedin content before, 115 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:28.250 but we never really spoken. So that's one thing. And what we 116 00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:30.720 did was he came on the show. Of Out of all the guests we've 117 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.079 had, like I've had a great experience with all of the guests have come 118 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.360 on the show and but immediately it was also super clear that me and this 119 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.759 guess really had a good chemistry and got on really well. And then at 120 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.350 the end of the episode he mentioned that one thing they've been trying to figure 121 00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:48.910 out but don't have the resources for or don't have the resources internally to do 122 00:07:48.949 --> 00:07:51.389 a good job with, was paid like paid ats, and he would love 123 00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:55.430 to maybe have a chat about that at some point. So it was completely 124 00:07:55.470 --> 00:07:59.500 led by him. I didn't say anything or suggest anything, and then a 125 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:01.420 couple days later we got on a call to just explore in a bit more 126 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:05.819 depth. Like week later we had a proposal call and then weekley everything was 127 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:09.860 done. So it was super smooth and for me it was one of the 128 00:08:09.339 --> 00:08:13.689 easiest deals that we've ever closed, because I had so much credibility and authority 129 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.689 already. Actually, when we were running through our proposal deck on our proposal 130 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.050 call, I remember he's a very clearly to me and my team. Hey, 131 00:08:22.089 --> 00:08:24.009 guys, like we don't need to we don't need to go through all 132 00:08:24.050 --> 00:08:28.240 of this stuff, like we can just get to the pricing section and then 133 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.920 like what the next steps are. And I've never had that on a on 134 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.799 a proposal call before and I know that that was purely because of the relationship 135 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:39.559 and the credibility built through the podcast. So and I love that. Just 136 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.309 just that feedback like it changed the whole conversation. He brought it up with 137 00:08:43.389 --> 00:08:48.710 you. What's your typical sales cycle link like? Is Twenty eight days? 138 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.710 Twenty eight days is an amazing time to quickly see Roy on this strategy. 139 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:58.100 But how does that also compared to kind of your average sales cycle length and 140 00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:01.379 things like that? Yeah, as fast to the normal. So it does 141 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:03.740 vary, obviously depending on so many things, because we get a few different 142 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:07.379 types of people that get in contact with us. We get the people, 143 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:11.409 the class companies that reach out that the reason they're reaching out is because they 144 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:16.049 have a budget. They need to start like increasing the leaflow and they need 145 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:18.769 it yesterday. So obviously those ones closed faster than the people who reach out, 146 00:09:18.769 --> 00:09:22.049 because I've seen some of our content and the just interested in exploring. 147 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:26.840 But I would definitely say it's faster than faster than average for sure, like 148 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.399 if we took an average, I don't have it right on the screen now, 149 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.240 but I would say the average is usually like maybe a month and a 150 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:37.080 half to two months from like fast conversation and to everything actually being like complete. 151 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.389 Yeah, and something good, dear, and kind of that backstory doing 152 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.950 is it closed faster, but it closed faster not with someone who's like okay, 153 00:09:45.990 --> 00:09:48.190 we're ready to buy, we're getting three bids and and we're going to 154 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:52.259 beat you up on price. Like it closed faster, but it also closed 155 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:56.340 more easily as well, with less work. And you knew that. You 156 00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:00.139 already you know the prospect that was a guest on your show. You know 157 00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:01.860 that there's a good relationship, so you can kind of tell that it's going 158 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:05.340 to be a good fit. It's not one of those Oh it closed too 159 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:09.690 quickly and now we get this customer on board and we realize this really isn't 160 00:10:09.730 --> 00:10:11.049 a good fit, like it was great that we closed it quickly, but 161 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:15.210 now we're not so happy about it, or they're not so happy. So 162 00:10:15.529 --> 00:10:18.169 I think that points to a lot of great things about the strategy. Tell 163 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.120 us a little bit more. I see in what the name, the name 164 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.320 that you chose for the show, the SASS marketing show, is not focused 165 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:31.600 on on digital ads or paide channels. It's not branded around your expertise and 166 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.789 to me that allows you to reach out to these marketing leaders at South companies 167 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.669 who can buy from you, and it also sets them up to talk about 168 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:45.549 their expertise. And it's not like you laid in a qualifying question, but 169 00:10:45.909 --> 00:10:48.950 it makes sense to naturally talk about in that context what are you struggling with, 170 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:52.820 like what's next for your marketing team? To wear that conversation about where 171 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:58.379 your business could help was very natural. I didn't feel like timeshare presentation. 172 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:01.299 And then here comes the right hook with the with the sales pitch, right, 173 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:03.259 right. Yeah, so that's one thing again, that we took from 174 00:11:03.649 --> 00:11:07.970 from like James Is Strategy and his book contempt base networking and everything that we've 175 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.289 learnt from from you guys, was that it would be very easy to call 176 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.929 it, like, I don't know, the hey digital show or whatever, 177 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:18.879 whatever we might call it. But with the SAS marketing show, there's a 178 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.720 few things. So number one, we would never really focus when we first 179 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.759 launched the podcast on lesser numbers. Like I didn't really care about that, 180 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.279 although over time that's now changing for some reasons that we'll talk about in a 181 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.799 second. But like if first all I cared about was interviewing the people that 182 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:33.389 we want to sell to at some point or people we want to get to 183 00:11:33.509 --> 00:11:39.110 know us about. Way To frame it actually, and the SASS marketing show 184 00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:41.789 is going to be interesting for those people and it's going to be clear what 185 00:11:41.870 --> 00:11:46.029 they're coming on to talk about, which is also really important if you're trying 186 00:11:46.070 --> 00:11:48.940 to speak to any potential guests. And then, as time has gone on, 187 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:52.659 like now that we are starting to gain a bit more traction with a 188 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:56.940 podcast, that we have sponsors interested as well. That's one thing that's really 189 00:11:56.980 --> 00:12:00.460 helped from a sponsorship perspective. I never can said that that as an additional 190 00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:03.690 revenue stream for for us in a business, but because our show is so 191 00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:07.690 niche focused and the naming is so need and everything is like so clear, 192 00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:11.889 it's a very simple like value prop for anyone that's interested in working with us 193 00:12:11.929 --> 00:12:16.200 because they need like it is so clear who they're going to be talking to 194 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.879 him what they're getting. And then from the listener side of things, like 195 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.399 the discovery side. I don't have any actual data to back this up just 196 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.960 yet, but I'm pretty sure that we're starting to rank for SASS marketing related 197 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.190 terms. Like if I search on my phone, SASS marketing where one of 198 00:12:31.190 --> 00:12:35.190 the first shows that we see. I know that that's like bias a little 199 00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:37.309 bit because it's me on my phone, but for example, even over the 200 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.230 last couple weeks, there was one episode that we did, one of the 201 00:12:41.269 --> 00:12:43.230 very first episodes, and out of nowhere it picked up like a load of 202 00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:46.419 downloads over two or three days and I contacted them and they didn't do any 203 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:50.940 promotion or anything like that. So in those cases I can only imagine that 204 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.820 it's a case of starting to rank within the right kind of key words within 205 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:58.139 the podcasts store or have you want to put it. So for us, 206 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:01.889 the naming thing is actually super important. I think it's crazy to name a 207 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.970 podcast after yourself or after your business. Instead, name it after the people 208 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.250 that you're trying to build relationships with or interview, what is going to be 209 00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:11.610 interesting and attractive to them, and then what is going to be interesting and 210 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:15.519 attractive to the listener. Make it as clear as possible and because, as 211 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.159 you said, the conversation transitions very easily then as well, because I have 212 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.200 the same two questions I ask every guest at the end of the show, 213 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.600 towards the end, and one of those is what's what's one thing that you're 214 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:28.990 that either you or your team are really proud of, that you've been working 215 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:33.629 on recently, and what's one thing that you're finding challenging right now? I 216 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:37.509 like there's been a couple times where they've said thing that's challenging is like improving 217 00:13:37.549 --> 00:13:41.350 their linkedin paid ads funnel right or something like that. Or there's been they 218 00:13:41.429 --> 00:13:43.940 share things aren't ads related, but it's related to someone I know that I 219 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:48.220 can then introduce them to further down the line, and it's good content for 220 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.419 everyone listening, because everyone likes to find out what other people like them or 221 00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:56.330 slightly further ahead of them are experiencing as well. So that's the way it's 222 00:13:56.370 --> 00:14:00.970 sometimes people ask me how do we transition it to a sales conversation, and 223 00:14:01.049 --> 00:14:03.049 the way that I look at it is, first all, you don't need 224 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:05.970 to transition it to a sales conversation because if they're looking for support, they 225 00:14:07.009 --> 00:14:09.039 will bring it up like that guess that we close to deal with. But 226 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.840 if they're not looking for support right now, instead of just trying to go 227 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.720 harden to a sales conversation, focus on the building of relationship so that when 228 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.279 they are ready, they remember you and they come to you, and one 229 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.840 way to do that is through learning a bit more about them and their challenges, 230 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:26.350 by asking them a question like that man. That is so smart, 231 00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:30.950 Dal and I love the way that you've layered that into your interview framework. 232 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.110 In it it's your two standard closing questions, because it does position you well 233 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.539 to figure out what are their challenges and can I help or not? And 234 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.139 the way that you help might not necessarily be hey, let's talk about our 235 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:46.259 service. They might say something else like hey, they want to start a 236 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:48.940 podcast and you say, Hey, go check out sweetish or you know, 237 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:52.340 we're looking for this, this piece of our Martex Sta. can you know, 238 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:56.330 based on other customers you've talked with or other podcast guests, you can 239 00:14:56.409 --> 00:14:58.769 make a recommendation that you feel good about and now you've added value. I 240 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:03.210 love what you talked about. They're in you know, that strategy not only 241 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:07.399 serves you but it also serves the guests because you can add value in a 242 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:11.519 genuine way and it adds value to the listeners because it's questions that they are 243 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.919 asking their peers. You just happen to be the conduit, the facilitator of 244 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.549 that conversation. Let's transition from kind of the way that you close out interviews, 245 00:15:20.590 --> 00:15:24.990 and I think that's a very tactical advice for folks who want to use 246 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:28.830 content based networking in an interview based podcast, the guest follow up strategy. 247 00:15:30.149 --> 00:15:33.110 What have you done so far, what has worked, what hasn't, and 248 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:35.740 what do you see in the future? You mentioned some plans to me offline 249 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:39.899 that you haven't quite enacted yet, but what's working and what do you see 250 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:43.100 working that you're going to try and test here? You know the reason months 251 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:45.980 to come. Yeah, great question. So one thing that I said to 252 00:15:46.059 --> 00:15:48.500 you before we started this I wanted to make clear as like we don't really 253 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:52.929 have a ton of processes built right now for this podcast, and that I 254 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:56.649 wanted to say that, because I know a lot of people hold themselves back 255 00:15:56.649 --> 00:16:00.570 by thinking, okay, I need the guest outreach process done, I need 256 00:16:00.649 --> 00:16:03.090 the booking process done, I need the follow up and need all of those 257 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:06.200 things. And yes, they help. They're going to make it smoother experience. 258 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:08.120 They'll help your guess have a better time. That help you do more 259 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.960 interviews, which is also important, but you don't need all of those things. 260 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:17.960 I guess I'm fortunate where I've built somewhat of a audience, nothing big, 261 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:19.669 but some of an audience on Linkedin and other platforms over the last few 262 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:23.149 years, which is meant. Once we did launch the PODCAST, I've had 263 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.309 just guess coming to me non stop. So I haven't really done too much, 264 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:30.070 I don't reach, apart from some larger guess that I really wanted to 265 00:16:30.110 --> 00:16:34.580 get on for that like authority play early on in the podcast. But right 266 00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:40.220 now all it is is usually people will message me. I'll decide pretty early 267 00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:44.139 whether or not very good fit just by asking them for me. I asked 268 00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:47.889 them some pre qualifying questions based on our target by a persona and I'm very 269 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:51.769 like clear about that. So I know that for us, we it doesn't 270 00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:55.289 make sense for us to be speaking with any SASS company unless they're at least 271 00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:57.970 a million dollars in and you're occurring revenue, ideally significantly more than that. 272 00:16:59.090 --> 00:17:02.159 But there's like no point as talking to them about paid as if they don't 273 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:06.160 fit that. So I bring that into my qualifying criteria for guests as well, 274 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.000 and the way that I frame it to the guests is that for my 275 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.519 podcasts, like specifically, I want to keep the not say people at smaller 276 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.990 companies aren't valuable, but I want to keep the guest criteria as people at 277 00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:22.269 SASS companies who have driven results from their marketing that if I ask them what 278 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:26.230 something that's working well, it's not a small project that's driven one sign up 279 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:29.549 or one lead, because that might be something that's worked well for an early 280 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:30.859 stage business. But I want to make sure the people that come on the 281 00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:36.859 show are sharing advice that they've actually delivered on and has driven revenue. So 282 00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:38.779 it's very easy for me, when someone asked me like, Oh, why 283 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:41.579 am I asking that, it's very easy for me to explain why, based 284 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:47.329 on who are audiences and who our target criteria for like guests as well. 285 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:51.130 So I asked them that question so that's like one thing I do before even 286 00:17:51.170 --> 00:17:53.170 agreeing on an interview topic with someone is I ask them that and then I 287 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:57.720 set the tone for what I want to be covered on the interview. So 288 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.039 the way that I do this is usually I'll just go through their linkedin or 289 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.599 check on their website or their blog and do some research in some and like 290 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.200 adds tools and everything else and find something that I can see they're doing really 291 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.680 well and I'll suggest that we use that as a topic for the interview. 292 00:18:12.230 --> 00:18:17.670 or I'll ask them what they think makes sense to cover. Most of the 293 00:18:17.750 --> 00:18:19.829 time they come back with like two or three different ideas what they'd like to 294 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:23.150 talk about, and usually I'll just deep dive into one of those a little 295 00:18:23.150 --> 00:18:26.380 bit just to make sure that there's some substance to the topic. But that 296 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.500 doesn't take too much times, one or two messages back and forth normally, 297 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:33.619 and then once that's done, I share a booking link with them where they 298 00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:37.579 schedule on to my calendar and once they do that they get an automated email 299 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:41.450 with the calendar request and then they do also get an automated email that I 300 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:45.849 prepared just with some preparation notes for people that are either new to podcast haven't 301 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:48.170 done them before, where it's like here's some equipment I would recommend if you 302 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.049 have time. If not, try these alternatives, and here's the way that 303 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:56.480 we structure our interviews and this is what you can expect afterwards. So I 304 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.480 have that that goes out and then they come on the show once the show 305 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.400 is finished. Naturally, the guy that I am, I'm like chatting with 306 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.960 them quite a lot in linkedin or anywhere else. So the process is normally 307 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.309 I'll just send them an email or a linkedin message when the episode goes live, 308 00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:12.349 which is normally a couple of weeks down the line, but because of 309 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:17.589 the relationship that I've built with them throughout the interview, they're normally messaging me 310 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:21.869 about other things on Linkedin and elsewhere anyway. So that's like how it looks 311 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:26.940 for us right now. What I'm building out is just processes where we build 312 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:29.779 out a process for guests outreach, because I do want to up the frequency 313 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:32.660 of the shows. So right now to do one show a week I can 314 00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:34.460 rely on inbound, but I would love to be in a spot where we're 315 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.900 doing like three shows a week, four shows a week, and to do 316 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:40.569 that I need to do some outbound. So we're building out a process with 317 00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:44.009 our team of kids. Are How we identify potential guests. This is how 318 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:47.089 we reach out to them, and so we're doing that, building out some 319 00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:49.970 better automations around the follow up. Someone invited me on to his podcast a 320 00:19:51.049 --> 00:19:52.599 couple weeks ago, Logan I'm going to share with you after this meeting, 321 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.319 because it was like it was this awesome thing where I click the link and 322 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.839 then there's a video explaining some cool staff and a few other really useful bits 323 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.960 of information, and I love that. So thinking about doing something like that, 324 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.119 but then that's probably a just going to keep it simple, like the 325 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.150 whole the whole point of the podcast for us isn't to get super fancy and 326 00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:12.670 flashy with it. It was just to be building those relationships with our buyers. 327 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:17.710 Now that we have like closed deals and we have spot podcasts like sponsors, 328 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.099 now we can start to lift up the production quality and everything else, 329 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:25.339 but that's not essential for this to work. It's just I love using it 330 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.180 as a cot, as a content piece as well. So the better quality 331 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:30.980 of the PODCASTS, then the better quality content I can create further down the 332 00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:33.700 line. So I know that's like a fairly long answer, but I wanted 333 00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:37.690 to make sure I broke down the different steps and gave some practical advice on 334 00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:41.329 all of those. I think that is super practical, Dylan, and I 335 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:45.009 love that it's you know, coming from a team like yours, have four 336 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:48.569 person team that's doing a weekly show. I talked to so many teams that 337 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:52.039 say we're a lean team of twenty, five or fifty. There's no way 338 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.279 we could pull off at an episode every other week. We're thinking about one 339 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.720 episode a month. And I just pushed back and see that's if you're interviewing 340 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.789 people in your target market. Why wouldn't you want more conversations and to on 341 00:21:03.869 --> 00:21:07.950 the audience growth side on the long game, one episode a month is just 342 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:11.829 not going to not going to generate much, not very quickly. I also 343 00:21:11.869 --> 00:21:15.589 love what you talked about there, in that it's not disingenuous to make the 344 00:21:15.710 --> 00:21:21.900 criteria for most of your guests. Now you're interviewing some folks who don't exactly 345 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:25.420 fit your buyer persona for other reasons. They'd create great content. They hope 346 00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:29.259 you build some authority, that sort of thing. But when you do position 347 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:33.490 it similar to your closing question. It's good for you and it's also good 348 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:37.650 for the listeners because if I keep this focused on marketing leaders at SASS companies 349 00:21:37.730 --> 00:21:41.569 over a million dollars in rr and kind of in this sweet spot, then 350 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:47.240 I'm helping my audience here from their exact peers and I'm not wasting their time 351 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.680 with something that's not going to be applicable. And so again, you know, 352 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.000 James Talks about it in the win win win you. You Win. 353 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.640 The guest wins by looking like a rock star with with the audience that you're 354 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:02.789 building for them, and the audience wins by hearing from their peers. So 355 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:06.509 I talk to a lot of people that just say, man, it feels 356 00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:10.589 like if I'm just interviewing prospects and that's my criteria. You know, it 357 00:22:10.710 --> 00:22:14.670 feels only self serving. But I think this example really unpacks it. That 358 00:22:14.750 --> 00:22:18.859 it it serves you better in the content perspective, the relationship, and it's 359 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.460 still a win for the guest and for the audience when you do it the 360 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.779 way that you're talking about Dylan. If anybody listening to this is is kind 361 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:32.130 of on the fence, either based on bandwidth, based on how how do 362 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:37.130 I run this strategy effectively? What would be your main advice to folks who 363 00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:40.890 who are kind of sitting on the fence for any of those reasons that maybe 364 00:22:40.930 --> 00:22:44.920 we're in your head before you started as well? Yeah, so I procrastinated 365 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.839 on this for a year and a half, as I said to you earlier 366 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.319 on, right, and I now wish that I started this a year and 367 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.920 a half ago. My excuse is back them with the same as that. 368 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:55.440 I was like, okay, we've just started building this business, I need 369 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:57.950 to be dedicating all of my time to everything else. How can I commit 370 00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:03.750 to doing the podcasts or something like that? On reflection, that was such 371 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:07.710 a silly, stupid idea, because the podcast is like the most effective way 372 00:23:07.789 --> 00:23:11.950 to speak to your target buyers and build an audience at the same time. 373 00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:15.059 To my advice would be, first of all, the typical thing of like 374 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:18.380 just just do it and get started. We talked about earlier on how it 375 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:22.299 my open before we started recording, but we were talking about how it doesn't 376 00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:26.140 matter if the first couple episodes like aren't great quality or anything else, because 377 00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:30.210 you can constantly be upgrading and improving and if you're having conversations with the people 378 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:33.529 that you want to be talking with. It doesn't really matter too much what 379 00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:37.410 it's like. There are some quick wins, like, first of all, 380 00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:40.529 I know you probably don't want me doing this, but like people should just 381 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:42.759 talk to you guys at sweet fish, like that's the easiest way to solve 382 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.880 everything. But the second one is, if that's like not right and if 383 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.119 that's not the right move for you, like it's very maybe not easy, 384 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.680 but there are so many people out there now, especially with everything that's happening 385 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:59.069 in the world right now, with podcasts, like podcast volumes increasing to there 386 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:00.710 are so many people out there who can support you, whether it's you use 387 00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:06.069 a piece of software to improve your editing process or speed up whether it's you 388 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.700 find a freelancer or contractor to help you upload the episodes or something like that. 389 00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:12.619 You can do that for a low budget. Of course, you have 390 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:17.019 to be aware that if you spend a low budget on some of these people, 391 00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:19.940 then the quality isn't always going to be guaranteed to be incredible. But 392 00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:22.779 that is a route that you can go down if it's really stopping you. 393 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.250 Like Hey, if you need to find someone to just quickly improve and edit 394 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:30.529 some episodes and upload them like. You can do that. So that would 395 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:33.609 be my advice. would be just to get started because if you if you 396 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.609 use this strategy, the content based networking strategy that we've talked about, there 397 00:24:37.650 --> 00:24:41.880 are so many benefits and I know that once you either close a deal or 398 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.480 once you build some really great connections, get some introductions to people or even 399 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.839 just use it to create more content on Linkedin or elsewhere, the feeling that 400 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.549 you get and the like instant return that you see from that is more than 401 00:24:52.630 --> 00:24:56.230 worth it. And then that helps you continue with the pacing of like keep 402 00:24:56.269 --> 00:25:00.950 pushing these episodes out, because you see the value pretty quickly. Yeah, 403 00:25:00.950 --> 00:25:03.150 absolutely, we've seen it with our own customers. Thanks for that plug. 404 00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:07.220 By the way, the checks in the mail dling. Know everybody, I 405 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.539 promised. We did not paid dill and for that endorsement. I just we 406 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:15.019 there's a lot of love between you and James and in both our teams in 407 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.180 and hopefully people recognize that, but I do appreciate that done. I think 408 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:22.890 it's good advice. Whether you're working with the team like ours, you're starting 409 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:27.730 out with maybe some low budget contractors or just pulling it together on your team. 410 00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:33.250 This same advice is true. Get over that first Hump and you'll be 411 00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:37.920 surprised if you kind of I'm not saying lower your bar and just like put 412 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:42.440 trash out there, but if you lower that bar below perfection to good enough 413 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:47.039 and then you start to iterate, you will start to gain momentum. I 414 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.589 mean we saw this with Sang Ramvasher in the team at Terminus, at flip 415 00:25:49.630 --> 00:25:52.750 my funnel. You know, we've redone the branding on their show at least 416 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:56.029 once, maybe twice, and to him he started out with a daily show. 417 00:25:56.069 --> 00:25:59.710 He's like, I wanted to see if this worked or not and I 418 00:25:59.829 --> 00:26:02.950 want to know quickly. If you start out with a monthly show and just 419 00:26:03.109 --> 00:26:06.859 like making sure that every single episode, every Um is removed in it, 420 00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:10.019 you know, Oh, if it doesn't sound like NPR, then we can't 421 00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:12.500 put it out there, you just never going to gain enough traction and you're 422 00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:18.059 gonna think that it's not delivering results before you've given it a chance to to 423 00:26:18.130 --> 00:26:21.970 deliver those results for you. And that's true whether you're working with a team 424 00:26:22.049 --> 00:26:25.369 like ours or not. So I think that's really great advice, Dylan, 425 00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:27.970 and you're a testament to a small team pulling it together, being able to 426 00:26:29.049 --> 00:26:33.400 do it and seeing some phenomenal results in twenty eight days. Being Roi Positive 427 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.079 and you know, I would be a lot better golfer if I could have 428 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.680 a great short game and a long game. And I see that's what you 429 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.119 guys are doing. You're playing the short game in the long game, as 430 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:48.029 I kind of describe content based networking to a lot of folks. Dylan, 431 00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:52.109 if anybody listening to this is now a fast fan of yours and wants to 432 00:26:52.150 --> 00:26:53.589 be a friend of yours, like we are here at Sweetish, what's the 433 00:26:53.670 --> 00:26:56.750 best way for them to reach out, stay connected or find your show? 434 00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:00.230 Yeah, sure, so, if the within the SASS world or that's interesting 435 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:03.859 them, that should just go check out the podcast. So that's the SASS 436 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.579 marketing show. You search it anyway, you'll find it. I'll just come 437 00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:10.859 on and connect with me on Linkedin. That's where I'm active like every day. 438 00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:12.779 So it's Dylan. Hey, H e wise, my son. I'm 439 00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.849 you type that in. I'll be like the only guy there. I think 440 00:27:15.890 --> 00:27:18.609 you should find me pretty easily. Ill of it, Dylan, thank you 441 00:27:18.650 --> 00:27:21.730 so much for joining me on the show man. I'm so glad we finally 442 00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:23.569 got to chat and we got to celebrate some early wins on your podcast like 443 00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:26.210 this is just the highlight of my day, man, so I really appreciate 444 00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:33.920 it. Thank you so much. Are you on Linkedin? That's a stupid 445 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.960 question. Of course you're on Linkedin here. It's so we fish. We've 446 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.519 gone all in on the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content 447 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.309 there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me, other times it's a micro 448 00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:48.470 video or a slide deck, and sometimes it's just a regular old status update 449 00:27:48.549 --> 00:27:53.750 that shares their unique point of view on BB marketing leadership or their job function. 450 00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:59.460 We're posting this content through their personal profile, not our company page, 451 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:03.700 and it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each of our 452 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.859 evangelists. will be adding more down the road, but for now you should 453 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.299 connect with bill read, our CEO, Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, 454 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.730 Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, Logan Lyles, are Director of 455 00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:19.410 partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We are having a whole lot of 456 00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:22.930 fun on Linkedin pretty much every single day and we'd love for you to be 457 00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:23.369 a part of it.