Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth.
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Welcome back to be to be growth. My name is James Carberry, I'm
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the founder of Sweet Fish Media and
I'm joined today by Dan Sanchez, our
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director of audience growth, and we
are always playing around with different series on
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B two B growth. We have
started a series called the echo chamber that
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we're really excited about, where we
just kind of riff and and throw our
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two cents on what B Two b
marketers are talking about on the Internet.
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That's been a really fun series and
we decided that we wanted to start another
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series where Dan, myself, Emily
Benji, basically where our marketing team talks
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about the work that we're doing to
really invest in B two B growth as
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a media property. You're seeing everybody
in their mother talk about you've got to
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become a media company, a media
company, a media company. Obviously Gary
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v led the charge with this type
of thinking. Now you've got folks like
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Dave Gearhart that are really bringing this
home for B Two b marketers and we
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are massive advocates of this strategy.
I think when you have the attention,
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you have the leverage, and so
we want to document that journey. So
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you're gonna start seeing at least for
the next, you know, few weeks.
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We don't know how long we're gonna
do this. We hope you're getting
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value from these journey episodes. But
you're gonna see in the headline, just
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like with the Echo Chamber, you're
gonna see a title, these headlines with
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whatever the title of the show is, and then you'll see the journey on
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the back end of it. So
be on the lookout. But today I've
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got Dan on and we're gonna be
talking about the why, the portion of
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our journey where we are really refocusing
on B Two b. So Dan,
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take it from here. Tell us
what, uh, yeah, why do
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we decide to go all in,
especially on on a show that we've had
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for years where B two B is
very predominant in the cover art? Give
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us a little bit of back story
about what we were talking about. A
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podcast movement sitting by the pool going
man, what we need to go all
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in? Ma'am, I think every
marketer that's been in the game for a
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while has had these points of frustration
where you're like wait, what are we
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even talking about? Like what are
we focusing on. Why do people even
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want to listen to us? You
go around in circles talking about the different
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points of view, the different angles
you could take, and and then you're
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like wait, why do people even
want to why? Why? Like five,
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five wise deep Simon snic origin stories, and you just kind of like
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get lost in this MINUTA and it
becomes very Meta very fast. And if
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you're a marketer, I'm sure you're
not on your head because, like,
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we've all been in these conversations even
as we as we've been trying to talk
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through taglines and like, you know, why would somebody want to listen?
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TO BE TO BE GROWTH? I
mean this crap is hard. It is
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hard, but the brands that do
it well and really tap into something visceral
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are the morning bruise of the world, they're the hustles of the world,
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they're the modern day media companies that
truly have captivated a massive audience, and
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so I think getting this stuff right
is big and we had a big Ah
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while we were in Dallas a few
weeks ago. Yep, but I even
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just coming back to the point of
this series of episodes and hopefully it becomes
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an ongoing thing. I mean,
we even question like do people even want
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to hear like behind the scenes,
at least our last episodes? Anytime we
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do behind the scenes episode it goes
relatively well because people want to know what's
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going on. The host becomes an
important part of the story. So here
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we are, like some of the
hosts of the show and wanting to share
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what's actually going on, and we're
sharing everything on these journey episodes as it's
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happening. Like everything we're sharing over
the next couple of weeks has happened in
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the last week or two and we'll
share ongoing because wouldn't it be cool if,
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like, you could unpack some of
the stories of how they happened?
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You know, a lot of stories
are hold in retrospect, but what if
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we had a documented journey of how
we actually got to the place we were?
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You know, it would be cool
to unpack some of the biggest brands
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today of like and have like the
conversations on tape to be like, how
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do they decide to nuance it that
way? It was really interesting. Who
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came up with that? Well,
we're hoping to put some of that on
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recording for people to hear in journey
with us, because unpacking these things.
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Like James says, it's really hard. So we're hoping to make some good
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content out of sharing some of our
insights along the ways we try to refocus
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BTB growth and kind of build a
bit of a narrative around it, right
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because you know, if you're on
linkedin you're probably learning about the strategic narrative
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to like all of us. So
it's like in all these words like strategic
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narrative and category creation and creating demand
and all these things floating around our heads
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and we're trying to piece them all
together like this weird puzzle and the puzzle
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pieces don't all quite fit super nice. That's how I feel sometimes. But
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here we are, we're gonna be
talking about it and the way we've decided
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to focus BBB growth is just on
B two B. I think we were
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sitting around like a hotel room or
by the pool or something. It's like,
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what if we just become unapologetically about
B two B, because you know,
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it seems like B Two b gets
kind of a bad rap, and
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it's not even the BBC marketers,
it's usually the B Two b marketers like
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saying Oh woe is me. We're
not as cool as B two C.
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Yeah, the more I reflected on
that it kind of hit me. Like,
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you know, honestly, when I
was in B two C, I
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was looking up to be two be
as doing some of the cool stuff,
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because they were all into the tech
and the marketing automation and marketing ops before
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it was called that, and the
way they were doing targeted ads and data
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driven decision making and like all this
kind of stuff and cool drip sequences.
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And I was pulling my playbook from
Silicon Valley, like the B two B
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SAS space like in ten to twelve. That's where I was getting my inspiration.
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So I was looking up to be
two B and now I'm like,
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I think we need to make b
two be cool again because honestly, it
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is for a lot of it.
Yeah, I don't know that it's ever
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been cool in the past. So
making me to be cool again. It
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might not be the right phrase there, but cool to me. I was
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talking to Ben Bradberry from work week
while we were in Dallas and he was
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telling me that. I think he
told me that B two B as a
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category is not that old. I
think it was actually designed in first designed
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in the nineties. And when he
told me that, I was like,
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that's really interesting because I've never seen
anybody talk about who created the category of
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B Two b. But when you
think about it, of course it's a
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category. But it might have been
late eighties, but I'm pretty sure he
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said it was the nineties, that
whoever built that is is probably sipping my
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ties on an island somewhere. They, you know, clearly did a brilliant
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job of designing that category, because
they are now. They either did or
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they didn't, right, because we
don't know who did it, but everybody
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uses that term. B Two B
is a is a term that now is
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is used across the board, but
nobody owns it. The person that started
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it is either rode off into the
sunset or there you know, they had
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an acquisition and they know they no
longer have the need to like way that
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banner. And so we thought we
can come in and own that. And
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and when we think about the category
that we've already built in B two B
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podcasting, that I've been building since
when we first pivoted into becoming a podcast
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agency, it worked exceptionally well for
us. We've talked about you know,
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do we try to own the owned
media category and as we continue to talk
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about, like what category do we
really want to try to own, when
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it hit us in Dallas like nobody
owns B two B and there's we already
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have. I mean, when you
search B Two B and podcast players,
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our show POPs up, if not
first, one of the very first search
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results when you search B two B
and podcast players. So we're primed too
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to be the folks that really own
it. Now what I want to clarify
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is, you know, we are
still very much for the marketer. So
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there's a lot of folks in B
two B and our content is still going
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to air on the side of trying
to attract a marketer, just, you
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know, in transparency building, you
know, trying to build sweet fish our
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business. We don't need sales reps
to necessarily know about sweet fish as much
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as we need B Two b marketers
to know about sweet fish. So our
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content is still very much going to
be heavily geared towards B two B marketers.
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But the brand of the show,
it's some of the elements what are
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going to make this show exciting and
what are going to add soul to this
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show. is going to be our
emphasis on the category of B Two B
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and Y B. Two b should
not be this kind of redheaded step child
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that gets talked about like it's lesser
than no, it's it's actually the superior
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thing. And, and we're gonna
UNPACK WHY, Hashtag B two B is
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greater than BBC. That's that's kind
of like the new model we've been playing
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with on Linkedin. Seems like it's
gotten subtraction. It's been fun. It's
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funny even. I think a big
part of the puzzle that had US refocus
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on B two B was trying to
find the villain. Right, if you're
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a fan of Donald Miller and the
story, like defining the villain is almost
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like half the battle. The problem
with marketing sometimes is you end up in
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these these situations where you end up
defining the villain as your customer or something
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that your customer does, which is
not good. Like you don't want to
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make your your prospective prospective customers the
villain. You don't want to demonize,
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you don't want to make your customers
feel stupid, and that's the problem we
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ran into. You. Like,
Oh, like, like, like,
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what were some of the villains?
We are coming up with like the new
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shiny like don't, don't change shiny
objects, right, because they're distracted all
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the time. But we're like,
oh, we're making them sound like they're
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distracted, which they are. They've
self reported to us. Focuses their number
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one greatest struggle. But I don't
want to have distraction, like so we
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demonize the thing, like like what
was it? Was it all state who
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demonized? Um, chaos? Chaos
reigns, like the dude. Yeah,
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right, in the commercials, because
you never know where I'm coming. Chaos
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reigins, you know. Do we
want to demonize distractions? So these are
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the like kind of conversations you have, and it just occurred to me.
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It's like, well, what if
we just make B two see the villain,
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right? And maybe it's not like
a villain, like it's US versus
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them, but it would be kind
of like it seems like B Two b
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tries to beat up on itself a
lot. Like what if we just put
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B two C on a Pinata and
take some swings at it? I remember,
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I mean we were we were in
the hotel room and I can't remember
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if I came up with it or
you came up with it. But it
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was what if B two C was
the villain? And it just clicked and,
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oh my gosh, like none of
our clients are B Two c.
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We exclusively work with with B two
B clients. And could we piss off
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some people at at massive brands?
Well, if we're pissing off people at
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massive brands, that means we've we've
done what we wanted to do with with
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our media property. We've we've grown
it to the size that people at big
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BBC brands would actually be offended at. You know, our take on how
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B Two B is better than B
two C. and so there was just
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a moment in the hotel room where
it Oh man, yeah, that's gonna
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be our rallying cry. That's gonna
be the thing that, you know,
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we consistently come back to. That's
going to be the thing that we,
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you know, potentially build taglines around
or teach. You know, have have
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merched around little things about how B
two B is better, or we just
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like we make B Two b the
thing and we can stylize it in in
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ways that are fun and play with
it with with merch and product and I
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think there are a lot of people
that deeply resonate with being in B two
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B, and nobody at Thanksgiving really
knows, at least in my you know
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the thanksgivings I go to B Two
b. What what is that? But
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if you know, you know it's
an insider thing and everybody wants to belong
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to something where they're part of a
crowd, they're part of a group,
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right. So I'm like, like, if we can make B two b
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like like hat and t shirt worthy, where all you have is the acronym
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B two be on a hat and
that's all you need, right, then
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that's that's the thing. I'm like
we like, let's make it a thing,
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even though it's a silly little acrony
and like losing the number in place
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of the word two has always been
kind of silly in my mind. But
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I'm like, let's make it awesome. I like the reframing it against B
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two, C two, because it
just makes it easier to make the fun
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social content. Like I gave you
the illustrations of the Pinata, but I'm
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like, Damn, like how easy
it is. It's go buy a two
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dollar or five dollar Pinata from the
dollar store and just put the words B
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two, C on it. And
like just take a gift of me,
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like swinging at it, and then
out pops like a bunch of really boring
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B Two c items, you know, that nobody cares about. You know,
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like B two C, like there's
a lot of sexy items, like
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everybody thinks of like a Porsche and
like fun cars and all birds and all
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these fancy brands. But I'm like, Dude, B two C is just
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full of things. Like I remember
working at a Shopper Marketing Agency and we
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were like fabreeze would have been a
hot deal. I'm like, for freaking
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for breeze? I don't know,
I don't want to create a creative in
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cap on Walmart for for breeze.
I'm like, but that would have been
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a big job. That would have
been cool, and I'm like, uh,
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that's B two C. so,
but I think when other people think
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of B two s they're they're thinking
about the sexy stuff. They're thinking about
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the brands that everybody loves and you
know, Tesla and and all of these
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like really sexy consumer brands. They're
not necessarily thinking about the item at the
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bottom of the grocery store like you
talk about, you know, the item
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at the on the bottom shelf at
Walmart. Like that's also B two C
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and that's actually the majority of B
two C, but nobody wants to talk
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about that. Now you're seeing brands
like dollar shave club get acquired for I
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think, if it wasn't a billion, it was close to a billion dollars
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a few years ago. I think
Gillette bought them, and so you're seeing
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those, like kind of more commodity
items being taken through the D two C
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direct to consumer like go to market
motion, and those brands are are really
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fun. They're, you know,
figuring out how to market a razor,
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like the most boring product ever,
but they went to market in a fun
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way. And so that's not to
say that other, you know, other
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things in B twoc can't be marketed
better, but we can do the same
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thing and B two B. and
I think when you look at the complexities
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of B Two B and how B
Two B is like what we've been saying,
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like it's like sitting at the adult
table when you look at having to
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manage multiple stakeholders in a deal and
and managing a pipeline that is in the
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tens of millions of dollars. The
weight that comes with the deals that you're
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working and responsible for as a B
Two b marketer, like your impact on
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the business as a B two B
marketer as opposed to a B two C
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marketer, your per deal impact is
crazy, and the creativity that you can
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inject into doing things like a b
m and doing things that are hyper targeted
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towards the you know that Sally Works
at IBM and that this product would be
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great for IBM and that IBM could
spend seven, maybe eight figures on on
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your solution. Like let's get outside
the box with how we try to reach
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Sally at IBM, and I love
the creativity that can be had in B
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two B that I think we're just
going to be waiving the flag on for
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the next, hopefully several years.
And I can't over emphasize enough the power
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of finding a villain. Is Brings
so much clarity. It's hard. It's
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hard to find the right villain because
it's hard to even define what category you're
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going to try to go after or
become known in. Like we played around
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with becoming known as owned media,
because podcastings owned media, you know.
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So we're like, but do we
really want to demonize paid media, considering
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that we need to use paid media
to grow owned media. It's hard.
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So we're coming up. We were
team and stuff on Linkedin, kind of
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like, oh, stop, stop
begging and paying to be on other people's
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platforms, build your own, which
is still kind of true and we still
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agree with that. But at the
same time I didn't want to make it
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the villain. I didn't want to
demonize all the paid marketers, knowing that
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we were gonna have to run some
serious paid media at the same time in
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order to get there. So I'm
like, it feels weird. It takes
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some time to rustle with and we've
been wrestling with this for well over a
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year and it's finally become clear that
B two B is the thing we want
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to we want to own, we
want to celebrate, we want to make
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B two B marketers feel like they're
part of a tribe, like we're all
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in it together. We're all business
nerds that just love talking business. That's
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my one of my favorite things about
it. Business is my hobby and I
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love work, like Work Force Fund
to me. I love getting on podcasts
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and just talking about you know,
how to villainize BBCs was a great time.
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Um, I love talking about profit
margins and how to make Grand Slam
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offers, how to talk to customers
and get insights from them like this is
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this is a good time. So
we want to attract those kinds of people.
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We're hoping that the that you listening
to the show are the kind of
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people that like to nerd out over
business stuff, especially, of course,
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business marketing, because that's what this
show is about and that's what we're about.
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But that's the kind of brand we
want to create. Is Like nerds
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and people that really are nerd out
over B two B marketing all and all
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its goodness and occasionally just take some
chief shots of B two C just for
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that. And what was interesting is
we're talking through this in Dallas. You
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know, you often talk about your
BBC experience being in Higher Ed and how
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you were trying to attract, you
know, students into the school, so
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very much a b two s motion
and how in outlandish Lee challenging that was
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and how much respite you have found. And B two B because, like,
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I actually know who I'm marketing to
now. I don't have to spray
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and pray and guess, and my
background is actually in B TWOC to my
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first tech company that I started,
a company called wirthday uh was a tool
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design to help people plan really incredible
days for for their loved ones, and
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that was a B twoc product.
I think I spent like twenty grand on
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a credit card trying to figure out
how to get this product to market.
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We had it built, found a
developer built it. On the day that
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the site went live, my developer
got a full time job had to bail.
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I tried finding folks in India to
keep the product going. I just
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couldn't do it. But that's what
got me into marketing, was trying to
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figure out how to market this B
two C technology product. But it ended
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up, you know, we were
charging like ten dollars one time to use
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the product. I knew nothing about
business. I didn't. I probably couldn't
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have even told you the difference between
B Two B and B two c back
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then, but it was very much
a B twoc product and I graduated up
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to be two B and that's you
know, now we've got sweet fish,
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you know, two timing, five
thousand company and I credit all the time
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when I'm talking to new our entrepreneurs, they're asking me about like how we've
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done it. I'm like a massive
part of it was figuring out that B
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two B was the way to go, and so I've been advocating for B
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to be for a long time and
so this it just clicked because it's your
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story, it's my story, and
we know this story. Story is powerful
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and it's what resonates with people,
and so I'm super excited that we've got
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that, we've got locked in.
We really you and I are super aligned
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on this Um and I think I
think there's gonna be a lot of folks
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that are going to be attracted to
it. I feel like we need to
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make a ritual, like when somebody
graduates out of B two C and too
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B two B, you know,
and just like find people every time we
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see someone on like linkedin talking about
changing jobs to a B two B situation,
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like we have a ritual we go
through of like congratulations, you've graduated,
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welcome to the ranks, and B
two B, Yes, well done.
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Start creating rituals like that. Send
him like a cap, like the
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graduation cap. I don't know something, there's something there. We need to
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start finding rituals for it, because
there's probably they're probably all in there.
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But the graduation and like the coming
to the adults table, like where to
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B Two c marketers that have that
have come over to the adult table now
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to do you some real stuff and
see superior marketing is certainly easier, more
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profitable and can be just as fun
as B two C. It's easier in
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some ways and it's more complex and
in other ways, but to me it's
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more fun because, uh, it's
less lift for more impact. And that's
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not to say that that if you're
in B two B that you're lazy.
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You want less lift, but you
have more tools and resources at your disposal
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because you actually know who you're selling
to. You know their names, you
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know their job titles, you know
the companies they're at like. You know
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the specifics of who you're going after
and when you when you know who someone
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is, the game gets really fun. So that's kind of wrapping it up
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for this week. On the beginning
of this series in the journey how we're
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refocusing it on B two B,
in the back story of why we're focusing
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on B two B and now we're
excited about it. In the next episode
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of the journey we want to tease
the mission. What we're thinking is going
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to be the mission of B two
B growth and this whole B Two b
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category that we're going to be passionately
celebrating. So stay tuned for that next
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episode. We've got our villain.
We talked in depth about our quote unquote,
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villain. I'm really excited, Dan, to to get into the mission
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and again, it was one of
those things that, because a lot of
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the work that we've done with sweet
fish, ended up bleeding into and making
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the mission a whole lot easier than
than it was to define the villain.
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But I'm I'm excited next week to
talk about that. If you like this
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episode and you want to make sure
that we continue to do more episodes of
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the journey on B two B growth, make sure we reach out to Dan
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or myself on Linkedin. James Carberry, C A R B A R Y,
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Dan Sanchez on Linkedin, shoot us
at D M or just send us
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a connection request with a personalized message
it. It just says hey, listen
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to the episode. You should definitely
keep doing them. That is our fuel
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for really letting US know if this
content is resonating with you, the listener.
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So we are really, really excited
about this particular series and we hope
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to talk to you soon