#Agency 16: What Being a “Values-Based” Agency Really Means w/ Ben Herman

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:09.269 Hey everyone, logan with sweet fish here. As you may already know, 2 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:14.070 we've had the HASHTAG agency series running for a while now here on bb growth. 3 00:00:14.830 --> 00:00:18.710 Over the next several weeks you'll be able to listen in to select episodes 4 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:24.620 of the Innovative Agency, hosted by Sharon Tork as she leads conversations with agency 5 00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:28.940 leaders about how their teams are staying on the cutting edge of marketing trends, 6 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:33.380 how they're adapting their businesses to meet new challenges and a whole lot more. 7 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:38.929 All right, let's get into the episode. Welcome everybody back to another episode 8 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:42.929 of the Innovative Agency. Share and tork here with you again today and it's 9 00:00:43.009 --> 00:00:47.729 great to be with everybody. As I'm sitting here now, we've just blown 10 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:54.039 through the two thousand and nineteen holidays and we're all in the mindset of New 11 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.640 Year, fresh starts, and so I'm so excited to be back at it 12 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:03.200 and we've got some great conversations coming up for you over the next group of 13 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:10.549 episodes, including today's, and I'm very excited to talk with today's guests all 14 00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:18.269 about the topic of values based businesses, and I know that that's a term 15 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:23.019 that it's very easy to throw around and also to misinterpret. But when you 16 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:29.700 find a business, in this case an agency, that is walking that talk, 17 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:34.969 I think it's really worth conversation, and so I'm really thrilled to welcome 18 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:41.290 to the show today been hern. Ben is a CO founder of medfish digital, 19 00:01:41.530 --> 00:01:47.519 which is an agency headquartered on the West Coast, important area, Oregon. 20 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.640 And Ben, I'm really excited to have you on the show today and 21 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.640 I have this conversation. So thank you so much for joining me. Thank 22 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.640 you for having me on. Yeah, I'm I am. I'm definitely looking 23 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:04.790 forward to getting into this whole topic of how you run your agency and how 24 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.629 you help the clients run their business as, I guess, based on this 25 00:02:07.789 --> 00:02:13.389 whole promise of culture and values and how they filter through what you say and 26 00:02:13.469 --> 00:02:15.659 what you do. And so tell me, tell us a little bit about 27 00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:22.099 so how did you how what's the origin story of medfish digital and what's your 28 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:27.659 background as an entrepreneur? Yeah, so the company was founded in two thousand 29 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.569 and six. Officially, prior to that I had been I had a career 30 00:02:30.770 --> 00:02:36.289 and market research and a lot of Zeros and one working with data. So 31 00:02:36.729 --> 00:02:40.250 and the Internet was kind of in its early stages and I was recognizing that 32 00:02:40.409 --> 00:02:44.680 and it was kind of cool and I was into it and so kind of 33 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.719 on the side, I would build websites and then work to get them to 34 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:51.000 rank. And I was about two thousand and three and I knew I wanted 35 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.560 to build a business one day and at least trying entrepreneurship on my own, 36 00:02:53.960 --> 00:03:00.150 and so the Internet marketing kind of seemed like a good way to get started 37 00:03:00.189 --> 00:03:02.590 with that because at the time I really felt that a lot of businesses could 38 00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:07.550 benefit. Yeah, so kind of took the plunge, left my job, 39 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.229 which is a little scary, in two thousand and six and started. You 40 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:15.580 know, we started, we had a couple of clients and gradually built over 41 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:21.180 time. And it's funny because Corey, who we were dating at the time 42 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:23.780 and now I'm fortunate enough to be married to her, had convinced me to 43 00:03:23.819 --> 00:03:28.930 quit my job and I knew that it was the right move because, doing 44 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:30.770 it right, I could always maybe go back if things didn't work out, 45 00:03:30.930 --> 00:03:36.289 and she had, she was very supportive and and had a lot of faith 46 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:38.090 in me that we could kind of do something on our own. And then 47 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:42.280 about a year later, I convinced her to quit her job and we kind 48 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.280 of carved out two separate areas of the business that we co founded and have 49 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.840 grown it over time. Yeah, I know, and I know we were 50 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.830 chatting briefly earlier about about the whole dynamic of running a business with your life 51 00:03:54.909 --> 00:04:00.509 partner, and I'm I'm always impressed and in awe of couples who do it 52 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:05.150 successfully and so and most of them who do have told me something similar to 53 00:04:05.229 --> 00:04:09.469 what you just said, which is that you sort of pick. They tend 54 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:12.860 to have two rules about it, that you pick your lanes and you stand 55 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:15.939 in those lanes and the company and then you do you bust to try to 56 00:04:15.980 --> 00:04:20.740 leave as much of the business behind when you leave the business to go home 57 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:24.649 and have the rest of your life. It's I think it's harder to do 58 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:28.490 the second than the first, from what I hear, but that's sort of 59 00:04:28.490 --> 00:04:32.170 the common wisdom that my clients relate to me. It is and it's always 60 00:04:32.209 --> 00:04:36.610 fascinating because as business owners we tend to think a good way. That somebody 61 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:42.720 put it to me as we tend to be biological pl statements. Sometimes that's 62 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.920 true. It's there's a lot of work that we have to do. I 63 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:50.560 think we had to do more upfront of learning to kind of to work, 64 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:55.629 to leave some of the business items behind or not let that stress carry into 65 00:04:56.189 --> 00:04:59.990 the household. It's not always perfect, but when we're raising a family together 66 00:05:00.029 --> 00:05:02.829 it is not. You know, we try and there's a lot of work 67 00:05:02.949 --> 00:05:05.829 stuff. That's great, and there's a lot of challenges when you're building a 68 00:05:05.870 --> 00:05:12.579 business and yeah, the relationship would suffer a few brought that all together and 69 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:16.579 you know, our identities do get a little entrenched in the businesses that were 70 00:05:16.660 --> 00:05:20.730 part of. I think just as human beings and entrepreneurs we're so yeah, 71 00:05:20.769 --> 00:05:24.970 so it's always a challenge, it's always a work in progress but yeah, 72 00:05:25.009 --> 00:05:28.449 knock on wood, we've we're I don't know, we're doing it and we 73 00:05:28.889 --> 00:05:31.410 enjoy it and you know, it's I wouldn't want to be on that journey 74 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:35.360 with anybody else. So well, that's great. Well, yeah, I 75 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:40.720 think there's something about the DNA of an entrepreneur in general that makes it hard 76 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.000 to shut it off. It's just sort of part of how you're hardwired and 77 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.240 it's also, you know, we're living in and always on world and so, 78 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.069 even if they're not in business, with your life partner. It's are 79 00:05:50.230 --> 00:05:56.990 hard to turn it off just if you're not within normal working hours or sitting 80 00:05:56.990 --> 00:06:00.269 in a physical workspace. And so many of us our work as mobile anyway, 81 00:06:00.350 --> 00:06:03.230 so we're always thinking about it. It's in some way, shape or 82 00:06:03.230 --> 00:06:09.620 form. You seem like the type of entrepreneur or business owner and we're not 83 00:06:09.819 --> 00:06:15.180 well acquainted, but we've had a conversation and I've done spent quite a bit 84 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:19.089 of time sort of looking at the work that that madfish does and and and 85 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:24.850 at your website to see sort of what's your culture and philosophy is and it 86 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:30.170 you seem like the type of agency that it seems like you've left a lot 87 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:36.600 of your own DNA in terms of values and culture in the way you've built 88 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.800 the company, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that because I 89 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:46.439 think it's think culture is a very buzzword, e type things say. I 90 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.189 think people love to say that it eats strategy for breakfast. I think people 91 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:56.829 love to talk about why it's important for talent attention in our retention and attraction 92 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.819 and all that stuff, but I think it's something that's easier to talk about 93 00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:06.180 in snippets than it is to truly commit to building a business around and that 94 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:13.740 seems to be what you're doing over at madfish, including deciding to really become 95 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:16.769 a social enterprise by electing to be a Bee Corp about a year and a 96 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:21.370 half ago. Right, yeah, Yep, that's exactly right. So tell 97 00:07:21.370 --> 00:07:26.889 let's talk a little bit about that. What, how? How have you? 98 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:30.480 How did you start, first of all, building really such a strong 99 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:36.399 values and culture based agency, and what led to the decision that being a 100 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.399 B Corp was right for you? First of all, let's explain for the 101 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.509 benefit of anybody listening who might not be exposed to be corpse. What is 102 00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:46.750 it be Corp exactly? What is it? What does it mean to be 103 00:07:46.829 --> 00:07:51.550 a Big Corp? Yeah, so companies that have been certified as a Bee 104 00:07:51.629 --> 00:07:57.029 Corp are, you know, their benchmarked and there's a group that you take 105 00:07:57.069 --> 00:08:01.139 an assessment. It's actually quite difficult to qualify, but it proves that you 106 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:05.019 meet the highest standards of the business, meets the higher standards of social and 107 00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:11.339 environmental performance, public transparency, even legal accountability, and all to balance profit 108 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:15.329 and purpose kind of in the the world around us. And so you know, 109 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.850 it's it's a lot of it's a big culture shift and it's a lot 110 00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:22.810 of things that I don't know. There's a lot of businesses that are doing 111 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:26.519 some but going through the Be Corp certification kind of forces you to, you 112 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.920 know, look in word, document the things that you're doing that are working 113 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:33.799 well and expand on them to really take it to the next level. And 114 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.429 what led you to want to pursue sort of that mark of excellence or that 115 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:46.429 what? Why was it important to you as an agency owner that you run 116 00:08:46.509 --> 00:08:50.429 the business? Basically, I think I'll I think of be certification. We 117 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:54.860 are our firm has one or two clients who are be certified, and I 118 00:08:54.980 --> 00:09:01.779 think of it as sort of a public expression of an agency's excellence in terms 119 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:07.740 of social awareness, sustainability, commitment, things like that. But every agency 120 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.210 owner has, I think, a different reason probably for pursuing it. What 121 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:15.009 what were your reasons? What were the reasons of the agency for feeling like 122 00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:18.529 that was important to it? Yeah, that's a good question. So, 123 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:24.600 you know, it's I think early on when I worked for an incorporate Gig, 124 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.200 that was great experience, a great career. There were different things that, 125 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.639 you know, as an employee, I thought one day, if I 126 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.600 start my own business, I would do this differently, I do that differently, 127 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.200 and it's really easy to kind of have those ideas, I think everybody. 128 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.110 Everybody does. But a lot of it kind of carried over as we 129 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:45.190 started growing our company and I thought, you know, people should know our 130 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:48.070 ethics in the marketing world, and so I one of the first pages we 131 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:52.269 actually added to our website when we started out was our code of ethics, 132 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:56.539 and so it was always super important, I felt, because almost every person 133 00:09:56.620 --> 00:09:58.620 that I spoke with said, Hey, I went to your website and I 134 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:01.620 read your code ethics. I really didn't think too many people would read it. 135 00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:05.139 I just kind of thought, okay, websites and expression of our business. 136 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:07.850 What should people know about us? We have offered these services, but 137 00:10:07.889 --> 00:10:11.490 also this is who you'd be working with, somebody or a group of people 138 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:15.929 that care about these things. So we started there early on and then we 139 00:10:15.970 --> 00:10:18.370 always kind of had it, like you mentioned, in our in our DNA, 140 00:10:18.409 --> 00:10:22.519 I felt of wanting to do good and as our platform grew we're able 141 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.440 to kind of to to do more good in the in the world and community 142 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.519 around us, and so there's always just been this drive of we want to 143 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.789 want to operate in the world as we want it to be, not always 144 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:39.389 as it is, if that makes sense, and so not in a not 145 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:43.070 in, you know, a pie in the sky or a dreamy kind of 146 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:46.590 way, or even a false way. We want to operate in a world 147 00:10:46.629 --> 00:10:50.580 that we can help make better. We want to make things better, we 148 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:52.460 want to make our interactions, we want to our excuse me, we want 149 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:56.500 our interactions to lead to things being better. So everything we touch, everything 150 00:10:56.539 --> 00:11:01.620 we work on, we want to be better afterwards, and so that was 151 00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:07.730 kind of the the underlying kind of core at which kind of drove us to 152 00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:11.769 go for the initial be corps certification. There's a lot of benefits that we 153 00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:16.289 had put in place for employees over the years before that that we're heading in 154 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:20.039 that direction of, you know, just making time and space for people, 155 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.399 both on the mental health side as well as physical health side, in addition 156 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.120 to the work that we do. So being a bee corps seemed like a 157 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.440 natural kind of next step. But it was definitely a challenge to get our 158 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.429 certification. It wasn't as easy as to taking the assessment and getting it. 159 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:39.269 It took us about a year of work to really get all the things in 160 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:43.710 place from both a compliant standpoint and, you know, benefits, documentation processes, 161 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:46.659 things like that. We had to get all that in place to to 162 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:50.340 get certified. So it is quite difficult but it was well worth it. 163 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:54.700 So I wanted to ask you because one of the things that struck me as 164 00:11:54.740 --> 00:12:01.769 I was looking at the blog content on your site over the last probably eighteen 165 00:12:01.889 --> 00:12:05.649 months or maybe a little bit more, and how it's evolved over the last 166 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:11.529 year. And this is an outsider's perspective and maybe I'm going to surprise you 167 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:15.840 with this question, but it's really clear to me that it's kind of evolved 168 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.759 over the last year or so to be very culture focused. There are a 169 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.320 lot of content, they're generated by your team on employee engagement. A lot 170 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:33.549 of content there, I'm being values based as a business. Just do you 171 00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:37.470 feel like as one of these, the chicken or the egg, is sort 172 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:43.309 of the pursuing this be certification and being of so a more socially perceived as 173 00:12:43.350 --> 00:12:48.620 a more socially conscious agency? Did that sort of lead to the cultural changes 174 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:54.100 that that are reflected in that content? Or is it the other where you 175 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:58.539 finally wanted to sort of make a public statement about the fact that this was 176 00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:01.690 this is what your priority was as an agency and you wanted your clients to 177 00:13:01.730 --> 00:13:05.649 understand that better. So the certification was helpful. Yeah, you know, 178 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:09.009 it's interesting you pointed that out at you know, I feel like it's a 179 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:15.120 natural evolution of kind of the voice of the business and one of the things 180 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:20.440 that we kind of identified a couple years back was that our voice was maybe 181 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.960 more on the technical side of marketing and we were doing a lot more blog 182 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.870 posts and writing and putting articles out in the community that were maybe focused on 183 00:13:30.269 --> 00:13:35.870 helping somebody to increase the return on adspend or design focus work that converts better 184 00:13:35.909 --> 00:13:39.909 than another, you know, things like that. And so as we started 185 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:41.259 talking about well, you know, there's a lot of this out there. 186 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:46.220 Will still continue to do that, but what do we what do we want 187 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:52.139 the blog to to really express who we are and more to give clients both 188 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:56.769 something to understand of who you would be working with in our company, and 189 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:01.809 so we wanted to use our blog is kind of a platform for the people 190 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:05.129 that work here to talk about things that they're they're excited about, and often 191 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:09.330 times that's more than just the latest marketing tactics, you know, and so 192 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:13.440 culture and engagement is definitely something that we're all we're all into because it makes 193 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.200 us by talking about it, by looking at what other companies are doing, 194 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.960 by sharing the ideas, it helps us all to be better and we get 195 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.549 a lot from learning from other companies what they're doing and bring that inward. 196 00:14:26.590 --> 00:14:30.750 And so we wanted to kind of return that and just talk about what what 197 00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:33.950 it is. Yeah, that that we're excited about on that side. And 198 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:37.269 so, yeah, employee engagement is definitely I mean we measure that. We 199 00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:41.179 want to make sure that we're living our values more than just talking about it. 200 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:46.220 Yeah, well, and if it is clear, and and I do 201 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:48.220 agree with you that it did look evolutionary. I mean if you look at 202 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:54.250 the timeline of sort of the focus of the content that your team members have 203 00:14:54.450 --> 00:14:58.049 put up there on the blog, it definitely there's definitely a shift and it 204 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:03.330 just seemed to sort of align with your decision to seek the be certification and 205 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:07.720 kind of feels like it was all happening sort of simultaneously, which I think 206 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.720 is a great thing. It means you're definitely putting your money where your mouth 207 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:18.080 is as a business owner and building something that your team is going to feel 208 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:24.909 invested in. So, for the benefit of maybe my more cynical listeners here 209 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:33.590 who own agents these let's talk a little bit about it's it is it's a 210 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:39.019 great achievement to have a business that is an alignment with sort of the values 211 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:43.179 and the mission and the vision of the owners, but also the people who 212 00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:48.940 who work there every day. But how is this translated for you in the 213 00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:54.409 market? How is it translated for the agency? See in terms of talent 214 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:58.490 retention and attraction and in terms of new business retention and attraction of the types 215 00:15:58.570 --> 00:16:03.450 of clients that you've been able to work with. Let's talk a little bit 216 00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:08.639 about sort of the business and number side of culture and what sort of a 217 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:14.720 trend you've noticed there. Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting because we 218 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.840 we do look at that as much as we can and where we can, 219 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:23.789 and I mean I think we've got great retention on the employee side and I 220 00:16:23.950 --> 00:16:27.269 think we've got great attention on the client side. We have a we just 221 00:16:27.389 --> 00:16:32.980 did an NPS survey amongst our clients and it came in, I want to 222 00:16:33.019 --> 00:16:37.019 say it came in and like eighty three or eighty seven even might have data. 223 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:40.740 So it's really high. So on that side we have very happy, 224 00:16:40.779 --> 00:16:45.539 excited, engaged clients. On the employee side, very similar. We didn't 225 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:49.809 have a you know, in comparison over the years we've never had, knock 226 00:16:49.850 --> 00:16:55.370 on wood, a retention issue. We've always kind of put people first and 227 00:16:55.490 --> 00:17:00.690 clients first, and so I think there might be if I had to look 228 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:06.039 at it from other agencies that I'm familiar with, and even there there's several 229 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.200 of us that share a lot of really intimate data to kind of on the 230 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.319 number side, to understand market trends in the industry as a whole, and 231 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.150 I think we probably take, you know, a hit maybe on maybe a 232 00:17:17.190 --> 00:17:21.230 few percentage points of profit, but it's it makes I mean, if that's 233 00:17:21.269 --> 00:17:25.549 the cost for creating a better workplace and a better client experience, than we're 234 00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:27.990 all for it because without those two things we don't have a business. So 235 00:17:29.789 --> 00:17:33.500 yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's interesting. There is it's not 236 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.220 cheap, but I you know, I think it different. It's not cheap 237 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.420 when you're larger as as a business. I think starting off as a freelancer 238 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:47.450 and then having a company with two to three folks I mean an agency that 239 00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:51.450 size, there's definitely there's a different set of challenges. They're still challenges, 240 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:56.369 but having engaged team members that can help keep us, you know, that 241 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.519 can help drive the be corp initiatives, because it's not just it's not I 242 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.839 can't take too much credit for the be corps movement that that occurs in our 243 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.640 company. We I'm one of the people, you know, Corey and I 244 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.599 looked at it and came to the team and said this is something we believe 245 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.430 in. What do you guys think? And that, you know, all 246 00:18:14.470 --> 00:18:18.269 of us together implemented it over the years and so yeah, so it's tough 247 00:18:18.349 --> 00:18:22.910 to say that it it's got, you know, impact one way or another, 248 00:18:22.190 --> 00:18:26.990 because things were good before, things continue to be well. It's just, 249 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:30.259 yeah, we could quantify it maybe a little bit more, and so 250 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:33.099 we put out like a social impact report and and things like that on our 251 00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:37.299 website, on our blog to kind of be transparent of this is how is 252 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:41.569 the impact that we made and it's a big byproduct of the Be Corp work 253 00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:45.289 that we do. Yeah, I noticed that it has its change sort of 254 00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:52.609 the complexion of the types of new potential clients that the agency is targeting or 255 00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.880 prospecting for. It makes us, if I think it forces us, to 256 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.400 put it through a tougher Lens. You know, over the years we have 257 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:07.240 to be we definitely talked about potential clients differently, I think, in the 258 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.150 last few years because we want to be said, you know, we do 259 00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.789 this be corps. You know certification. We have to get recertified from time 260 00:19:15.829 --> 00:19:18.990 to time. We want to be conscious of that. So, you know, 261 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:22.390 we've got a steady group of you know, the phone rings, email 262 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:26.259 Dings, people are reaching out to us. We follow our own best practices 263 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.859 from marketing and yeah, we do have to be a little bit more discerning 264 00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:34.700 about certain client types and industries and just we do pay attention to global sustainability 265 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:38.609 as and a big one of what impact that client is having in their community. 266 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:42.930 So yeah, so it does. It changes the conversation a little bit, 267 00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:48.089 but it hasn't, I would say, over the last three years it's 268 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:53.240 maybe disqualified to leads for, you know, sustainability practices or things like that, 269 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.599 or just groups that we wouldn't want to companies or corporations we wouldn't want 270 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.400 to align with. But you know, we were up front with them about 271 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.039 it and it was, it was, it was okay. So, yeah, 272 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.440 you know it has that impact, but it hasn't been huge, I 273 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.869 would say. Hasn't like reshaped the business or had this big hit to revenue. 274 00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:14.349 Our revenue grown every year since we started. So knock one would we've 275 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:18.029 been fortunate there. And you know, it's I feel like the Be Corp 276 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.740 work that we do just contribute to that momentum and and, like I said, 277 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:25.660 growing the platform and allowing us to use it for good. Right. 278 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:29.380 Well, I also and I'm this is a speculation on my part, but 279 00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:37.170 I'm guessing that your agency was already pretty already had pretty significant standards around the 280 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.690 companies it wanted to do business with in the first place because of your focus 281 00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:49.240 on impact and values, and so probably not as much has changed in terms 282 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.960 of the ideal profile or Avatar of a client that you're looking for. I 283 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.720 mean that's in change just because you became a B Corp. It just it 284 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:03.839 just is a your more publicly expressive about the fact that that's a that's your 285 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.670 motivating factor for being a business, your social impact. But you were looking 286 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:12.109 for those kinds of clients most likely, and this is guessing on my part, 287 00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:17.509 before you became a big Corp. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. 288 00:21:18.029 --> 00:21:21.579 How did you handle the project of going through the process? Did you 289 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:23.859 put a team of like a hot team on it? Did you have specific 290 00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:30.220 individuals leading it up like a project or the client work, or how did 291 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:33.490 you go about? And the reason I'm asking this is a lot of times 292 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:37.809 I equate this to pursuing some sort of innovation and an agency. A lot 293 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.650 of times an Asian see has an idea or a project they want to do 294 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.849 that is for the purpose of moving the agency itself forward and some specific way. 295 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:51.720 It's not related to any specific client and they struggle, particularly the smaller 296 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.160 ones, with how they're going to advance that. How are they're going to 297 00:21:55.240 --> 00:22:02.789 carve out space from serving their clients Daytoday, without damaging their margins or meeting 298 00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:06.589 all the deadlines they have to meet to actually get this initiative mood forward? 299 00:22:06.750 --> 00:22:12.230 So how did you go about logistically sort of getting just the work done associated 300 00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:18.700 with going through the application process to be certified? Yeah, absolutely so. 301 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.619 The Eth of Corey and I learned about kind of the BECORP movement when it 302 00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:26.779 was when it was getting started from fellow entrepreneur friends and I'm part of a 303 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:32.930 group called Yo entrepreneurs organization, and so there's a lot of experience sharing and 304 00:22:33.089 --> 00:22:38.970 ideas that get kind of shared throughout the Yeo community. And close friend had 305 00:22:40.009 --> 00:22:45.039 recently gotten BECORP certification and was explaining to me about it and I got really 306 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.799 excited because I like, this is super cool and we need to be doing 307 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.799 this and we do so many things already. I mean this seems like it 308 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.880 compliments and can kind of you know, it wouldn't be a far stretch for 309 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.029 us to go for the certification. And so cory and I came back to 310 00:23:00.109 --> 00:23:03.390 the team and we talked to a couple of people. One primarily, who 311 00:23:03.710 --> 00:23:07.509 the person I was probably most into it on our team, was gelt waters, 312 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.390 and she's actually our associate director of content strategy and social impact, and 313 00:23:11.630 --> 00:23:18.579 so it was something that she would believed heavily in as well, and she 314 00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:22.259 so giesel led the initiative on our end, but then work with other team 315 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.369 team members to implement a lot of the work, because you can't you can't 316 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:30.849 do it all yourself and the assessment that they put you through is pretty heavy, 317 00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:33.410 and so there's a lot of work that goes into that. So it 318 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.730 started with a couple of us, I would say, and then I would 319 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.049 say the majority of the team is on board and involved in some way, 320 00:23:41.089 --> 00:23:44.799 shape or form. WE DO DIFFERENT BE CORP events. We give time to 321 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.720 the beat Corp. Will we do design work for what? Do Your costume 322 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:55.680 made? The there's a big event that happened for be Corp last summer and 323 00:23:55.789 --> 00:23:59.750 so we donated time on the marketing side and on the design side, and 324 00:23:59.910 --> 00:24:02.910 so that was multiple team members there. We have team members that then go 325 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:07.349 to the retreats and speak sometimes, and so ever, I would say, 326 00:24:07.829 --> 00:24:11.059 yeah, everybody's on board and involved in some way, shape or form at 327 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:15.619 this point. But to start logistically it was really getting, you know, 328 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.539 having a champion appointed on our end in the business, because for just Coryer, 329 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:22.700 I try and drive it. It probably wouldn't have. We might have 330 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:26.609 been able to get over a couple of the obstacles, but it really takes 331 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:30.130 team involvement, takes multiple people to see it through. You treat it like 332 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:34.609 you would treat a client initiative or project, like tracking bout charts in terms 333 00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:38.960 of progress. And when you were pursuing the certification I know you've done all 334 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.480 these things since you've been certified to get more involved in the big court movement, 335 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.200 but when you were going through the yeah, Oh, yeah, I'm 336 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.000 going to say. Oh, we treat a very similarly to that, not 337 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.309 maybe as technical or as heavy as we would a client. We so we 338 00:24:53.390 --> 00:24:59.349 actually have for ourselves we like we would for any client. We have mad 339 00:24:59.470 --> 00:25:03.509 fish as a client internally and so there's people, there's client strategists, who 340 00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:07.579 works on the mad fish account, there's the different team members for the different 341 00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.859 initiatives were running, and so now we do actually run it that way. 342 00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:15.259 It's funny. But yeah, leading up to that it was more of just 343 00:25:15.859 --> 00:25:19.180 weekly check INS. We kind of set goals and milestones, but it wasn't 344 00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:22.609 as rigorous. As you know. There's probably one or two deadlines that did 345 00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:27.890 get pushed in all honesty, just in the lieu of client work or right, 346 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:33.170 yeah, getting other things done. So what's your advice to agency owners 347 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:37.839 or leaders who might be listening to this who want to take steps towards having 348 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:44.480 their agencies do more values, reflective or we want to take those some of 349 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:53.950 those first initiatives on employee engagement or meaningful steps towards agency culture. What's a 350 00:25:55.029 --> 00:25:59.109 good starting point? I mean you've you've worked on all these things as an 351 00:25:59.109 --> 00:26:03.470 agency owner and had team members work on some of them. To where's the 352 00:26:03.549 --> 00:26:07.420 first what's some of the low hanging fruit? Yeah, so, you know, 353 00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:11.779 I would say if you're interested in be corps certification, be corporation dotnet 354 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:15.380 website is a great first place to kind of start and get more information. 355 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:19.130 It's super indepth and I believe there's an assessment on there that you can take 356 00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:22.809 two kind of just benchmark yourself. You can also sign up to get more 357 00:26:22.809 --> 00:26:26.170 information and talk to somebody, but you can learn a little bit about a 358 00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:30.250 little bit more about what it takes and because it's doable. It seems daunting, 359 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.960 but it's it ad just to to all different industries. So whether you're 360 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.119 in manufacturing or an agency or what have you, you could still you know, 361 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.480 there's the ability to get to become a certified be corps and my advice 362 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.759 would be that so many of us say that were a purpose driven business and 363 00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:51.390 you know we say it and said it as well. The be sort of 364 00:26:51.950 --> 00:26:55.750 gives me the be corporation certification will prove it. So it's kind of like 365 00:26:55.910 --> 00:26:59.470 it. It backs up the things you say and put some metrics to it, 366 00:26:59.710 --> 00:27:03.579 and it also helps to keep you accountable because you've got to get recertified. 367 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.940 So we say we're all doing these things and that were we volunteer and 368 00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:11.619 we help the community and we use our platform for good. So prove it. 369 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:15.769 Yeah, well, that's that's created advice. And if you're not sort 370 00:27:15.809 --> 00:27:18.690 of if an agency knows it's not ready to go down that path yet, 371 00:27:19.130 --> 00:27:23.009 what's the best first place to start getting your house in order into what are 372 00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:27.049 some good stuff that's to take? Talk about them for engagement. What are 373 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:33.480 some of the first easiest steps to start looking at that as an agency yet, 374 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.759 you know, I think that the first easiest thing to do, regardless 375 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.680 of your sizes, look in word and be selfcritical at at all times, 376 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.109 whether I mean whether it's an employee who leaves the company. You know, 377 00:27:47.670 --> 00:27:51.670 think about it on the perspective as what it you know, what impacts? 378 00:27:51.750 --> 00:27:53.950 What could you know? Did I have as the a one of the founders? 379 00:27:55.549 --> 00:27:59.460 You know, is there a cultural component to the business that needs to 380 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:03.619 be adjusted or changed? Just always be honest and self critical. I think 381 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:07.339 with yourself would be the first, first place to start. Then the next 382 00:28:07.420 --> 00:28:11.539 place to start is, yeah, I would, I would stuff. I 383 00:28:11.619 --> 00:28:18.089 would look at what you want your platform to be as it grows, because 384 00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:22.490 it's harder to maybe see or think about that in the early stages, but 385 00:28:22.650 --> 00:28:26.799 it's it's easy to live those values and look at the core values you've set 386 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:30.240 as a company. If you haven't set them, take those those steps to 387 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:37.240 set core values. There's a great book called Scaling Up and by Verne Harness. 388 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.910 It's from the gazelles group and that's that's something that we're big, you 389 00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:45.230 know, proponents of. It's something we use in our business and so it 390 00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:48.230 used to be called the Rock Feller Habits and then it involved in the scaling 391 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:52.069 up years ago, and so that's scaling up book will help you set core 392 00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.619 values and really get alignment on the team in terms of mission, vision and 393 00:28:56.859 --> 00:29:02.740 value. Those are great places to start and then be core work and other 394 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:07.259 work that you can do around you in the business community. I feel like 395 00:29:07.299 --> 00:29:10.890 I'll stem from those. Those things in one of our core values is accountability 396 00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:14.410 being genuine as another one, and so you know, we want to hold 397 00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:18.529 ourselves accountable to, basically to what we're saying and what we're talking about, 398 00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:22.450 and so the be Corp certifications a big component of that. And so if, 399 00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:25.240 again, if you're just starting off and you're looking for a place to 400 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.480 start, I would always start with core values and then look around you to 401 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:32.759 see what you can do to truly live those core values. And going back 402 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.880 to your question about measuring and things you can do internally, one of a 403 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.029 really cool tool that's out there. There's a lot of different they of competitors, 404 00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:44.430 so you can research and see if there's a different price point or something. 405 00:29:44.549 --> 00:29:48.069 But office vibecom is a really great tool that we've been using for years 406 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.460 and it's a way that you can measure employee engagement and it's anonymous, so 407 00:29:52.779 --> 00:29:56.579 team members get a little survey every it's like ten questions that they can just 408 00:29:56.660 --> 00:30:00.980 click in their email once every two weeks. So you can set the interval, 409 00:30:00.019 --> 00:30:04.619 I believe, and we get such invaluable feedback from from those tools, 410 00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:10.569 from to really understand and really back up how we're living our values, both 411 00:30:10.730 --> 00:30:14.890 from a mental health perspective, from our workload perspective, from, you know, 412 00:30:15.089 --> 00:30:18.970 everything. From would you recommend working at mad fist digital to do we 413 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.279 need more sex in the break room or whatever it is. There's some heavy 414 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.279 stuff, there's some light stuff, but it's invaluable. It really does a 415 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:29.960 great job. The tool that's a great job of quantifying we call emps, 416 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.319 or they we stole that from them, because your employee net promoter score. 417 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.390 So it's a great way to quantify your employee engagement and you can see it 418 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:41.470 go up and down throughout the year and you know that gives great, great 419 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:45.990 indicators as to you know areas you might need to address in the business that 420 00:30:45.069 --> 00:30:49.299 you might not always have visibility, especially like one of the founders. It 421 00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:52.660 can be difficult and so whether you have three people or one person, you 422 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:59.460 know it's there's so much information we get from that type of anonymous reporting internally 423 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:03.019 that is helpful that we can use to implement in the business to make it 424 00:31:03.140 --> 00:31:06.930 better that we wouldn't have gotten. Nobody's going to come sit down and tell 425 00:31:06.970 --> 00:31:11.490 me certain things about the workload or stress they might be having, but it's 426 00:31:11.529 --> 00:31:15.009 easy for people to anonymously kind of give it a score from one to ten, 427 00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:19.000 and we use that data heavily and I recommend anybody else that is interested 428 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:23.839 in making their workplace better and truly living the the core values that they set 429 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.200 out as their company internally. It's the great tool to measure that. So 430 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:33.430 awesome. So you should office vibe via Beecom, right, correct? Yep, 431 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:36.430 yeah, and I think there's tiny pulses, another one that's out there. 432 00:31:36.470 --> 00:31:38.069 I've heard of. I'm not used it, but there's, I think, 433 00:31:38.150 --> 00:31:41.029 several, but officebibe is the one that we use and we love it. 434 00:31:41.549 --> 00:31:45.349 Okay. Well, it's great trip. Well. Well, I want 435 00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:51.059 to take a minute to for sell. Thank you for sharing your experiences with 436 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:57.380 our audience about building an agency based on values and and how paying attention to 437 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:02.930 culture pays dividends, and it also your experience going through the Be Corp certification 438 00:32:04.049 --> 00:32:08.250 process. I'd really love to give people an opportunity to learn more about the 439 00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:15.960 agency and also encourage everybody to look at bad fish's community impact report, which 440 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.519 is a really good stapshot of how they've sort of translated all this work into 441 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.599 action in their in their community and with their clients. So what are the 442 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:30.710 best places for people to reach out and learn more about that? Ben Yeah, 443 00:32:30.710 --> 00:32:32.470 absolutely so. Our website is a great place to start. Just mad 444 00:32:32.589 --> 00:32:38.630 fish digitalcom and there's a link to our blog and the top right navigation and 445 00:32:39.269 --> 00:32:44.460 there we post a lot of the the stuff that we're doing. So impact 446 00:32:44.539 --> 00:32:46.619 report is there. We also talk about reporting tools that we used to stay 447 00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:50.980 accountable as an agency. Yeah, there's a ton of information there. We 448 00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:53.220 also have updates on some of the be Corp Events and things like that that 449 00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:59.369 are happening. So yeah, it's I would I would start there and if 450 00:32:59.410 --> 00:33:02.970 they have questions we've got a contact form phone numbers on the website. We 451 00:33:04.049 --> 00:33:07.490 also are on all the social media channels, so facebook, instagram, linkedin. 452 00:33:07.849 --> 00:33:13.880 Definitely reach out on the website, our social and we've got team members 453 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:19.599 watching and ready to respond if anybody had question. So awesome. Well, 454 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.440 Ben Herman, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. 455 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:29.549 Really enjoyed the conversation and appreciate you sharing your experiences with me and with our 456 00:33:29.549 --> 00:33:31.710 audience. So thank you for being with us today. Thank you, Sharon, 457 00:33:31.750 --> 00:33:37.029 I appreciate it and thank you for having me. We really hope you 458 00:33:37.109 --> 00:33:42.660 enjoyed this episode in the Hashtag Agency series from the innovative agency. To hear 459 00:33:42.859 --> 00:33:46.420 more episodes along these lines, check out the innovative agency in Apple Podcast, 460 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:51.980 your favorite podcast player or the links right in the show notes for this episode. 461 00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:58.009 As always, thank you so much for listening. Gary v says it 462 00:33:58.289 --> 00:34:02.009 all the time and we agree. Every company should think of themselves as a 463 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:07.289 media company first, then whatever it is they actually do. If you know 464 00:34:07.409 --> 00:34:10.880 this is true, but your team is already maxed out and you can't produce 465 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.920 any more content in house, we can help. We produced podcast for some 466 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.800 of the most innovative bb brands in the world and we also help them turn 467 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.670 the content from the podcast into blog posts, micro videos and slide decks that 468 00:34:23.750 --> 00:34:27.469 work really well on Linkedin. If you want to learn more, go to 469 00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:31.710 sweet fish Mediacom launch or email logan at sweetish Mediacom