Transcript
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Welcome back to be tob growth.
I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm joined today by Scott Miller.
He's the executive vice president of thought leadership
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over at Franklin Covey. Scott,
how's it going today, sir? Logan's
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great. I'm here at home with
my three boys. Says the last day
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of school for Kindergarten, second and
fourth grades. You're going to see some
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water balloons flying around the sky here, no doubt. I love it if
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you're listening to the show in your
favorite podcast. Happen you didn't know that
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we now have an active youtube channel. Check out the BB grows show on
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Youtube and you'll see all sorts of
behind the scene stuff. You might see
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some water balloons flying in the video
version of this podcast. Well, Scott,
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as we introduced you, your current
title is evp of thought leadership at
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Franklin Cuby and when you and I
connected on Linkedin here recently, I thought,
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man, I just hear the term
thought leadership so often as I'm talking
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to fellow be tob marketers. I
really want to pick your brain about how
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you guys approach thought leadership at Franklin
Cubby. Your thoughts on thought leadership because
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you've been a CMO at Franklin Covey. Now you are heading up that discipline.
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Tell us a little bit about why
you guys, as an organization,
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have created at a discipline a title
around thought leadership. It's not just kind
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of this ambiguous thing. I'd love
to hear a little bit about that journey
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and then we'll get into defining thought
leadership, what it is, how do
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it all those sorts of things from
your perspective. Yeah, superb set up
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question Logan. I know. I
think a lot of us are in the
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world of talking about thought leadership right
and we're starting to explore it, including
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thinkling covey. We kind of formalize
this about two years ago. We've always
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been in the thought leadership business.
We didn't call it that right but as
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the world talks more and more about
the value of thought leadership, I was
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the chief marketing officer for almost a
decade. Stepped away from that about two
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years ago and became the executive sponsor
of our thought leadership division, because that's
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what we do. We develop unique
points of view and perspectives on our industry,
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mainly around leadership development, building cultures
inside organizations that are sustainable, driving
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strategy through behavior change. And after
forty years in business, finkling covey has
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some expertise. So for us it
really was the formalization of so what is
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pr do, and what is books, our Book Division Do, and what
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do all of our webinars do?
Kind of bring it together and articulating in
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about a function with responsibility and measure
results, working with their marketing team has
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helped us tremendously to guy think,
to elevate ourselves above, if not all,
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the vast majority of our competition globally. That's really interesting. I'd love
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to dig into the organization. They're
a little bit Scott so tell us a
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little bit about as you have now
a a dedicated division to thought leadership.
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What is the relation between the Thought
Leadership Division and the marketing function and PR
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and and content team to how's that
laid out? Once you guys decided to
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formalize it's a division called thought leadership. Yeah, it's rocky. I'll tell
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you. I'll be honest, I'll
be very vulnerable, right. I mean,
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I was the only ever chief marketing
officer that I had a variety of
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stewardships beyond the marketing division. Of
Forty people were global public company. I
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stepped away. Up Behind me came
the vice president of marketing. I promoted
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him. Very competent person, extremely
competent, more competent than me in many
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ways in terms of where the company
is going, and I moved over.
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And so as we took kind of
half the team with us, it was
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kind of like mom and dad got
a divorce, but they're still cordial.
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But yet they have different homes and
different budgets and they have different understandings of,
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you know, who cooks dinner and
who puts who to bed. So
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I honestly there was probably a year
of just working out who has what responsibility,
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who has which part of the sequence, who writes what, who promotes
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what? And we kind of organized
it this way Logan. We said,
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you know, marketing our kind of
the there the servers, and then the
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restaurant. We Cook the food.
So we're the chefs and marketing, if
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you will, are the runners.
There, the servers, mean they're serving
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the food out to everybody. So
we try to work well with marketing.
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We're all very good friends. You
know, good fences make good neighbors.
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Obviously there's issues in any organization when
you're working with people with lots of competence,
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lots of Egos. I'm especially proud
of how we've come to a good
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fit kind of with that idea of
we cook it up, they serve it
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out. Interesting. So in your
application, at least, thought leadership,
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the division is more responsible for the
generation of the content, the ideation around
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what do we want to say,
what do we have to say, and
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then you work with marketing on how
you're going to deliver that messaging to you,
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to the market. Yeah, typically
that it was some some big differences
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are I mean. So you know, for example, we publish a lot
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of books where we've sold forty million
books across the course of our our our
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history, and so marketing is decide
what the book is going to be,
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but once we write the book,
they help to promote the book and distribute
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the book and, you know,
interview around the book. I think my
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main role as the EVP of thought
leadership is to make sure that two things
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happen, that we are selecting the
right thought leaders as ambassadors for the company.
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You know, stewer, people fall
frank follow Franklin coveys instagram and follow
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my instagram. Right, so I
mean Stephen, Mr Covey's social media is
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more influential, I think. Then
the companies is right. So we're very
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thought from complimenting. But my job
is to identify who are the people,
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the names of the people that have
expertise inside of our firm, lift them
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up and then have marketing help to
distribute their thought leadership. And it's complicated
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because, you know, people follow
people, I think, more than they
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follow brands. That doesn't mean that
people don't follow brands, but if you
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really want to build a relationship with
your customer through thought leadership, they're going
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to trust a personality, a person, a human name. Some of that
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they can relate to identify with.
As a similar job, and I think
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that's a valuable insight, is to
balance the presence of your company's brand with
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perhaps the presence of your founders brand
or your CEOS brand or your you know,
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CMOS brand, or your chief revenue, whatever the person is that can
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speak for your company. I think
that's a under leverage roll and a lot
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of organizations. Oh Man, absolutely
we are. We're early in the process
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here at sweet fish, but we
just internally launched what we're calling our evangelist
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program we don't want to just throw
the label on. Hey, we've got
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five people that we've identified and their
their thought leaders, because we think that,
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you know, thought leaders should be
a label that someone applies to you.
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Well, said, applied to the
words out of my mouth. Do
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not call yourself a thought leader.
Oh my gosh, I we have,
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you know, joking text back and
forth between our founder, James and I
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when we see thought leadership or thought
leader in someone's profile. Right, not
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in the mind I hold title.
People find out not in not in their
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title like you have, but you
know, in their headline. Yes,
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I get either. Right in I
t space. Right, I get it.
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I get it so really interesting.
I want to dig into the process
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you guys have gone through or currently
going through in selecting those people, because
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we one hundred percent agree with you
there, Scott. The people connect with
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people more than they do with logos. I mean you see that over the
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last couple of years. Before Dave
gear heart left drift, he was the
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face of that franchise. Now for
them, the fact that he moved on
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I don't think hurts their brand of
time, because I still think of DG
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and I think of that brand and
they've also invested in their CEOS brand,
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David cancel. So talk a little
bit about selecting those people and then operationalizing
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that, because usually people who have
the expertise within your four walls are also
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the busiest people show. Building up
their brands operationally can post some challenges.
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Right, you have to described to
my life. So I think a couple
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of things. The deliberation and thoughtfulness
you deploy to identify your thought leaders cannot
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be short circuited. Maybe not in
this order, but here's some criteria.
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They obviously have to have credible expertise
on the topic. I don't think you
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pick the handsomest person, of the
youngest person or the person who looks like
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your client. No, no,
you pick someone who has two chops,
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who has the intellectual Riggor, the
experience, the education. It has the
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credibility to bring unique and valuable insight
to the conversation, to your clients,
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to your prospective clients. Secondly,
I think reputation. I think if this
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person has to show wisdom, deliberation, they have to calibrate their emotions well,
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they have to be a thoughtful speaker
and writer, articulator. They need
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to be comfortable on social media.
Then you'd be comfortable behind a microphone on
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a platform speaking to five people are
five thousand people. They need to be
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able to write a weekly column and
ink magazine or perhaps a long form column
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for some other group, or perhaps
be understand difference between writing for print and
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digital. They need to be extemporaneous
thinkers. They need to understand where the
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industry is going, not just for
their own companies going. You need have
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a sales hat and a marketing hat
but also sort of an operational hat,
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not to always be in sales mode, right, but to be value adding
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value. I mean it really takes
kind of a full perspective. person.
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I'll tell you a lot of our
thought leaders don't write that well. Some
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of our thought leaders don't speak that
well right, as I'm constantly working with,
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you know, the great writer who
perhaps isn't the great speaker, or
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vice versa, or the person who
might may be in some cases, of
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one trick pony at surface value,
but when you peel the UN you know
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they've got more to think about.
Let's go, let's kind of pull it
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out of you, right, because
how many times can interview in the same
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exact topic. So thought leaders need
to be evergreen, they need to be
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curious and voracious readers. They need
to have some humility so they can realize,
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no, I was wrong on that. Here's what I've learned. Let's
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talk about that. They have to
have an abundance mentality. They could they
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can't be the smartest person in the
room. They have to be one of
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the people in the room who's talking
and listening and evolving their positions. And
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also, when I say abundance,
meaning there aren't they aren't always the right
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person. Right they're willing to promote
some other idea that now makes more sense,
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that's more timely than what was their
idea. It's a tall order,
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but none of those things I mentioned
are exaggerated. That that that is kind
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of the critier with which we tried
out cultivate our thought leaders. Yeah,
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it's really interesting. A few people
come to mind, you know. I
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think the other term, the other
title we're starting to see out there in
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the market place more and more is
chief evangelist. I think of a good
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buddy of mine, Ethan Butaute who
hosts the customer experience podcast. He moved
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from VP of marketing at a tech
company called bombomb out here in Colorado,
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to chief evangelist and just kind of
what you were describing. Their well rounded,
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someone who can speak well, who
can write well, he does fantastic
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hosting a podcast. He has enough
of the sales hat to be able to
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know when to kind of double down
when someone's talking about something that's pretty adjacent
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to their product or their service,
to to tie it in, but not
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in a super salesway. What are
some of the things that you've done,
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Scott, with your with your evangelist, with your folks, that you are
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developing their thought leadership to help them
identify and speak on their point of view
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but not be to Salesz but not, you know, not be too arrogant
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and kind of create all of that
mixture and also support them where some of
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their lack is. Because here's another
thing I'm talking with a lot of folks
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offline about as a they say,
man, we have these amazing thought leaders
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in our company. I say no, you don't have thought leaders because no
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one knows them. You have experts, and the difference between an expert and
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a thought leader is that they are
known. And how do you get known.
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You create a lot of content that
that person is able to share and
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that takes a lot of different media
types. Video, audio, written format,
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ort form, long form. So, as you said, not everyone
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is going to be stellar at every
medium. So how do you coach them
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to do all of these things well
or supplement them with your team around them
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to help them in those different areas
where they don't necessarily excel? Yeah,
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it's it's a multifaceted question, multifaceted
answer, I think. Increasingly so you
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do need to be exhibiting some expertise
in all the medium's depending upon your industry.
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Look at our industry, right.
I mean, if you're going to
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be anointed the thought leader by your
definition, by the marketplace at Franklin copy,
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you have to be able to be
on a podcast, audio and video.
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You have to be able to be
on stage in front of Sevenzero people.
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You have to be able to present
a key note for two hours or
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twenty minutes. You have to be
able to host or be a participant on
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a webcast. You have to be
able to speak extemporaneously. You got to
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have cadence and rhythm in your voice. You got to be groomed well.
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Today I'd not shade. I wasn't
realize this was video, but yeah,
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I'm showing some humility there. You
have to be able to write well.
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So it does take a well rounded
skill set. I think in many ways
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it's kind of a conundrum. As
a thought leader you are a bit of
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a specialist, but you also have
to be a generalist and the modalities and
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distribution, right. So it kind
of is this this awkward phase of both
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being an expert, having evergreen expertise
in your content, but having these generalist
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skills in distribution. Like your firm, we work with several firms that are
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publicists and our digital distribution partners help
get our word out. I don't have
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any of our thought leaders focus on
distribution as much as they're available for different
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mediums. Right. So we work
with them on their social media, we
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schedule interviews, we prep them,
we roll play, we hire coaches and
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take them to big auditoriums that have
them speak from stage in front of nobody.
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Right, Aerosmith is at the stadium
on Thursday and we're there on Friday,
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literally, right and we're running out
the theater, whatever it is to
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make sure that these people are compelling
incredible and such. It's a process,
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but you don't become a thought leader. As you said, you're an expert.
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You're an expert. It takes some
it takes some enormous credibility and hard
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work to build that opportunity. And
you said something off are that you looted
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to just recently. Logan, you
talked a bit about the audience too.
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I think so many of us are
tempted to have a blowhorn and just spray
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and say, you know, Seth
Goden is the dear friend of mine.
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He's endorsedment in my books. I'm
writting a new book where I highlight Seth
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and seth has this idea of smallest
viable market. He wrote about it in
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his recent book. This is marketing. This is a turn that everybody that's
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listening to you today should be fixated
on. Is What is your your smallest
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viable market, because I think as
be to be and even be to see
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marketers, we come at it always
from the wrong angle. What is the
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largest possible audience, the most social
media? And it's tempting. It's almost
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counterintuitive. Seth would say and Seth
has some chops. Seth would say no,
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opposite who is the first person?
Who's the one person? Let's say
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you're in the business of selling training, like we are. Who is the
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first chief learning officer? WHO's the
first chief people officer? What is her
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name? What is her title?
Where does she work? How does she
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consumer information? What are her company's
problems? Check? WHO's the second chief
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people officer? What is his name? Where does he work? And so
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I would really evangelize. I have
learned this the hard way from almost a
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decade as a chief marketing officer.
Now uvp at that leadership. Do the
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hard work to what we call spearfish
versus net fish. Net fish is very
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tempting. You're casting a net.
That's readers digest right. That's news week,
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that's CNN, it's all great stuff. If you're selling, I don't
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know, raisors, you're selling Adville. Everyone's got a headache, everyone's got
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to shave their legs or shave their
beard, unless you're in Europe like it
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am. But it comes down to, you know, more specific audiences,
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which the vast majority has have defined
a very tight market is. That takes
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great thoughtfulness, deliberation maturity to really
go spear fish. Who are the first
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ten listeners to your podcast? Who
are the next ten viewers of your webcast?
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How should you curate your target market
list? With those few people you
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mentioned? Offline, it could be
a couple hundred Franklin Franklin copy were a
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global company. Quite frankly, it's
about fiftyzero. We know what the number
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is. We know who are all
of the chief learning officers. Who are
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the chief people officers? Who are
the evps of organizational development? Who are
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the chief revenue officers? Right,
we're very clear. So we have all
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their names, all their information,
we know all their likes and dislikes to
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some extent, right, and we're
trying to target our thought leadership differently based
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on their circumstance, because they're not
all in the same circumstance. Some are
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an acquisition mode, some are indvestiture
mode, some are in ramp up modes,
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some are in launch mode, right, but once we understand their profile
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and their unique circumstance, do our
best to cater our thought leadership to them.
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Hmm Man, that is so good, Scott. I. I was
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having a conversation with a marketing team
the other day of a BB brand and
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they were asking me questions like,
Hey, when you start a be to
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be podcast, what are some of
the early bench marks? How many downloads
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are people getting? These sort of
thing and I, you know, kind
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of always preface this because I know
there's going to be kind of this let
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down. I said, well,
you know, when you're first starting out
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and niche be to be podcast,
you know your first benchmark is going to
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get to be get to a hundred
downloads per episode. And I know what's
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happening in their head. They're picturing
Gary v Joe Rogan, you know,
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type reach. And then I say
what one if your CEO is is who
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you're trying to get anointed a thought
leader in your space, whether that Cybersecurity,
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HR learning and development, whatever,
how much would you pay to get
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them on a stage in front of
a hundred people? And all of a
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sudden the context switches and also it
plays into what you're talking about. You
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don't need to reach millions and millions
of people with your podcast or that book.
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You probably need it to, you
know, reach or get into the
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hands of a few hundred people,
maybe a few thousand people, and it's
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it's counterintuitive. Right investors ask the
question. See Eos and founders early on
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what's the Tam? What's the total
address bull market? How big is the
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Tam? Right? And we get
caught up in that. We want to
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be part of something that has a
huge total address of all market. But,
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as the old saying goes, you
know, you can go a mile
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wide but only an inch deep if
you are in be to be. You
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know, it makes me think of
Sangrumbajeri, of another chief of angelist that
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we know over at terminus, recently
wrote a book that ADM is be to
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be. It's all about identifying your
target, the narrowest target that you can
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make, of the people that you
can deliver the most value too, and
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then you deliver, to your point, Scott, the most value to their
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context that you can. And what
we've been trying to do is, I
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think, in line with what you're
talking about there, Scott, deliver value
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that's helpful to the folks in that
context, but also leaning into the expertise
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and the unique point of view of
the evangelists on your team. where,
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where do they have kind of a
contrary stance? Not necessarily just being contrarian,
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to be contrarian and throw out tweets
wherever, but where did they take
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a stand where? Where did they
answer a question like what's a commonly held
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belief in your industry that you passionately
disagree with? Are there some ways like
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that that you've drawn out some of
those points of view from your internal thought?
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Leader Scott, first of all,
you're legit, Dude. I bet
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on the block a little bit and
I like you because you you you're legit.
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Secondly, this is easier said.
It's easier for us to talk about
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this on a podcast than a marketing
director or you know whoever it is,
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to go out and say, okay, so our goal isn't to get the
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largest possible database in next ninety days. o I see is to get the
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right database. It might be ninety
names. It's not as fun, it's
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not as validating, it's harder.
So I the first point I would say
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is is resistant temptation. Are you
chasing the right metric? I am privilege
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now to host what is the world's
largest weekly podcast dedicated to the topic of
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leadership. Hundred and twenty episodes,
a lot of work, took two years,
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hundred interviews, a lot of work. It's the largest subscribe to leadership
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podcast in the world. But it
may not be the largest chief learning officer
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subscribe to podcast in the world,
it may not be the largest collection of
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hrros. Listening to someone so as
I had become obsessed with it being the
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largest and the most subscriptions, it
probably is the wrong metric. It serves
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my vanity, but it doesn't serve
the pipeline. So I would just remind
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everybody who's in the same role that
I've been in is separate what makes you
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feel good, separate what maybe feels
right from what is right. What's going
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to build your pipeline? What's going
to add value to people who need to
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hear your message? And it might
be twozero people, it might be two
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hundred people. Make sure you're chasing
the right metric. To what you said
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Logan, I think kind of you
know, the voice of the customer.
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I love this phrase you used.
I I've already forgotten exact words, but
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really understanding you know, is this
a conversation happening in your company, you're
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in your industry and your association,
in Your Network? If not, what
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is it you're facing? What are
others facing? And then you ask is
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this something we should address? Franklin
Covey spent too many years trying to kind
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of be all things to all people. We were put activity company and a
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leadership company. We had retail stores
and paper planners and digital planners and all
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these things, and Jack Welch sat
us down fifteen years ago and talked about
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how he had, you know,
cleaved off all these businesses off a GE,
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and then Rom Sharon came in took
us more narrow and now our CEO
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is focus, like, is insanely
focused right on what are the like six
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or seven circumstances, six or seven
circumstances globally that our clients are in,
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and how can we become the best
at solving those? Not A, not
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nine, not ten, not acquire
everybody. We are not trying to become
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the Amazon of training. The opposite. We're trying to become and we are,
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the worlds expert at solving like seven
particular problems that are current clients in
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prospective clients. Are Trying to solve
it all, but most of your customers
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have one or two problems. Get
obsessed around those. That is where that
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is apt. Those right. I
mean that's where you will break out when
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you become fiercely diligent where you are
willing to say no to more ideas than
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you say yes to because you're obsessed
with solving particular problems and you now have
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the maturity and the credibility to,
you know, have a bully pulpit to
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lift up your expert into a market
anointed thought leader. HMM. Yeah,
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we're there, as you guys have
continued down this road, Scott, where
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there're some specific learnings. You know
that. Hey, I wish I would
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have known this two years ago.
Getting into it. You mentioned kind of
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the division of responsibility between the Thought
Leadership Division and marketing. How about enabling
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those those thought leaders along the way? You mentioned getting distribution, making sure
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that they don't think or touch about
distribution. Really just taking that off their
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off that plate, and getting them
comfortable with creating the content anything, either
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in that ere ria or any other
that. It's just like, man,
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if I had known these one or
two things two years ago, it would
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have been a lot easier for us
to get to this point faster or be
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able to get further down the road
at this point. Yeah, insightful question.
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I think we have matured in and
matching voice to market. Right,
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I could who is interested in Steven? Mr Cuddy's voice. He would a
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book called the speed of trust.
is typically see level executives. Right.
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Who is interested in hearing Corey cogan's
voice? Shot an amazing book on project
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management. Is People who are PMP
certified. Right, certified project managers.
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So we've become much more deliberate around
not letting a thought leader say, you
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know, I think my market is
people that are NHR training and people.
349
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No, not, no, such
your market. Right, let's get really
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thoughtful and narrow. Who is residing
with you? Who Cares about what you
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have to say? How have your
thirty years help to build credibility? And
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then go and build that? Right, what kind of look alikes? The
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second is, I do you said
it is. I encourage these thought leaders
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not to obsess on distribution. Let
me worry about that. I'll go land
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the Forbes column, will go land
the ink column, I'll put you on
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CNBC, will go book you at
a conference in keynote that you need to
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run your social media, because I
don't think anybody can manage your social as
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well as you can. You always
can tell when it's outsourced. You can
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always tell when someone's ghosting for you. Right, you got to build your
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social media, but I want you
to focus on point of view, expertise,
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opinion content. How does that apply
in this s IC code? How
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does apply on that S IC code? That takes a lot of work and
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always be rejuvenating in learning, not
just in your own room validating your own
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research. All you have conferences.
Are you on Webcast? Are you listening
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to the competition? Are you humble
enough to check your own ego and realize,
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you know what, that's changed.
That's an old paradigm, that's a
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new I need to have a new
mindset on this. So that's what we
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do. I think the biggest challenge
is really finding the time to manage people's
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their own social media, because I
think it's an enormously relevant medium, still
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special when it comes to launching books. That's how you launch a book.
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The only way you launch a book
is through social media. Gone are the
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days of forty city tours, gone
are the days of book signings. Kim
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Kardashian maybe beyond that. Know,
what you do is you curate a valuable
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reciprocal relationship through your Social Media where
people become appreciative of your value and when
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it comes time for you to speak
at a conference or be on a webcast
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or being a podcast or launch a
book or follow your column. Now people
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say that's worth my time. They've
earned the right for me to pay attention
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to that, and that usually takes
a full year to two years before you're
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sort of coming out, so to
speak. Yeah, absolutely, I think
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setting x Long A. Sorry yet. No, that's fantastics got and you
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know, it speaks to the reality
that you need to your evangelists. You
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need to set some expectations with them. One, it's not about those vanity
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metrics, as you talked about,
and to don't expect those to come overnight.
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Anyway, the vanity metrics or the
real Kpis. You know, we've
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talked a little bit about the your
thought leaders having a point of view.
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We're big on having your evangelist like
what is the stance that that they take,
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and we've talked about that a little
bit. You also mentioned they can't
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be too salesy, but they have
to have their sales hat on. One
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of the things that we've just in
the last couple of weeks of rolling out
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this evangelist program within sweetfish. We
have some folks who are very marketing minded,
391
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like myself. I've hosted this show
talking to marketers for two years.
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I've been in BB marketing and sales
for about twelve years. Our COOO has
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a ton of business experience, has
a ton of value to add, but
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he's new to creating content himself.
Yet he is one of our evangelist because
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of the expertise in the experience that
he has, and so one of the
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things that we've recognized the is we
need to help kind of coach him on.
397
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Well, here's your point of view, here's this lesson that you've learned
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in business, but we need to
break that down into kind of like you
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what you were talking about in a
different scenario. What does that mean for
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this sice could? What does that
mean? How does that play out when
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you're firing someone? How does that
play out when you're hiring someone? How
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00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:51.430
does that play out when you're not
sure to fire someone? Taking their point
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of view and breaking it down into
all these tiny little micro scenarios, that's
404
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how you're able to create a lot
of content and create content that is valuable
405
00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:07.099
to the context where your audience is
sitting today, because just hearing the same
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00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:11.140
thing over and over that will fall
flat. But you know, kind of
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another example from kind of mass media
is Gary V. He's said before,
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Hey, people have, you know, kind of trolled me and say hey,
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you basically say the same seven things
all the time, and he's like,
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00:28:22.410 --> 00:28:25.650
well, do you want me to
start making stuff up? But he
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says the same seven things in very
specific scenarios, whether that's hustle or patients
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or having a long term perspective and
business, those sorts of things. They're
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common themes, but he's not necessarily
just repeating the exact same thing. So,
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as we close it out today,
Scott, I just would love to
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00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:47.710
hear any other thoughts on kind of
coaching your evangelist, on how to walk
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00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:52.990
that line between having a specific point
of view but not being overly repetitive or
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00:28:52.190 --> 00:28:56.859
overly sales because it is. It
is a bit of a balance and there
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00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:59.940
needs to be some coaching there for
your team. Logan, again, I
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00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.140
think you're insights the last minute or
two were remarkable. I'm thinking, should
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00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:04.460
we hired a logan to help in
our company, because this guy's got some
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00:29:04.579 --> 00:29:07.779
shots? So it's an art,
right, a sort of science. It's
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00:29:07.819 --> 00:29:11.410
this kind of Nice. It's it's
Nice Salad Right. That you're putting together
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00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:15.690
with. You want your thought leader
to have a personality and then you have
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00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:18.690
an opinion and us two be an
opinion that builds the company's brand, right,
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00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:21.410
and they you don't want them to
do you want to don't want to
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00:29:21.450 --> 00:29:25.039
strip them. They shouldn't just be
a megaphone for the firm. Right,
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00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:29.480
they need to also bring their own
expertise to it. So it's a combination
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00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.559
of so many things. Right.
It's thoughtfulness and personality, it's calibration,
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00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.359
it's High Eq because you can have
the highest, you know, intellectual quotient,
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00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:41.109
but if you can't connect to customers
and prospects, be able, like
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00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:45.390
I said, to modify your position, perhaps even speak about your expertise to
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00:29:45.470 --> 00:29:48.630
different audiences. We have a lot
of writers to have context, but it
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00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:52.619
might need to be delivered differently to
engineers than it is to perhaps human resource
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00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:56.900
professionals, writer, to global companies
versus narrow companies. So it's that sort
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00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:03.099
of nimblenes without becoming a chameleon of
character or chameleon of ideology. It's do
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00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:10.609
you have the intellectual nimbleness and the
flexibility to take your message expertise to a
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00:30:10.730 --> 00:30:15.930
variety of different circumstances and two rolls. It's not for everybody. Yeah,
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00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.849
absolutely, I think there's a man. There's another question I didn't let's close
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00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:23.440
with that because I do want to
sneak this question in. You mentioned how
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00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:30.160
you develop the thought leadership division at
Franklin Cubby. Is it is it for
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00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.640
everyone, or should it be a
a function with the in marketing for earlier
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00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.589
stage companies? What are some of
the things that you guys wrestled with on?
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00:30:38.869 --> 00:30:42.470
Should we break this out and make
thought leadership its own thing within the
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00:30:42.549 --> 00:30:47.670
organization or where? Should we not? I think we were so passionate about
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00:30:47.670 --> 00:30:51.099
it because, you know, our
entire company is an inductural property company.
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00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:53.339
We don't really produce stuff. Right, want to simbly line. I mean
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00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:57.059
people buy our books, they buy
our you know, our inductural property.
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00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:00.180
So for us it was quite natural. This is the business that were in.
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00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.819
It made a lot of sense to
for this to be a mouthpiece.
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00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.650
I don't know that every organization how
to have a division, but I'll say
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00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.970
every organization probably got to have some
thought leadership right. I mean you could
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00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:17.529
be a nursery, meaning like a
nursery of flowers or a nursery of tending
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00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:21.319
to small children and each of you
could have some thought leadership. It might
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00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.079
go on your blog, it might
be a webcast. I mean, I
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00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:29.920
guess I was a CEO of a
plant nursery or the CEO of a nursery
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00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.789
tending to small kids, I would
be having a podcast that I'd be talking
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00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.750
about fertilizer or only developmental childhood.
Both of that is thought leadership, right.
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00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:41.029
I'd be writing articles, I'd have
a newsletter. A newsletter is thought
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00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:45.789
leadership. I would be sharing what
is our expertise and the hopes that a
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00:31:45.869 --> 00:31:48.579
customer might post it in their social
or they might forward onto somebody in their
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00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:52.900
network is like minded. People work
with like minded people. Typically, you
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00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:56.140
know, people who have kids have
friends that have kids. Right, people
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00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:57.779
have gardens, have friends that have
gardens. Not Always. Would you get
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00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.769
the point? I think every organization, no matter how some all or how
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00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:07.009
large, entrepreneurial. To Marryott,
mean Bill Marriott his you know, the
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00:32:07.049 --> 00:32:10.450
chairman of the board. I think
still at Marriott. His his social media
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00:32:10.569 --> 00:32:15.319
is amazing. I think more people
follow Bill Marryott than maybe follow Marriott.
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00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.960
He's got thought leadership or it's a
hotel. There's all kinds of thought leadership
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00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:27.319
around travel right now within the CONA
coronavirus situation right and pandemics and quarantines and
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00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.750
looting at all that's going on in
the world. I don't think any organization
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00:32:30.869 --> 00:32:35.190
is too small to have some thought
leadership. You should probably scale it with
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00:32:35.309 --> 00:32:37.430
the size of your expertise in your
organization. Who Your customer is right.
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00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:42.630
I love that's got a great examples
and I love the breakdown. Hey,
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00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:46.220
two different types of nursery. They
should have thought leadership. This should we're
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00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:50.420
getting super tactical here. Well,
Scott, this has been fantastic. I
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00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.140
think I could talk marketing and thought
leadership with you all day long. Thanks.
477
00:32:53.619 --> 00:32:57.700
Will have to have you on again
for now. If anybody listening to
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00:32:57.819 --> 00:33:00.569
this, you've just now popped up
on their radar they want to stay connected
479
00:33:00.609 --> 00:33:04.210
with you or ask any follow up
questions about what you guys are up to.
480
00:33:04.569 --> 00:33:07.130
What's the best way for them to
reach out, stay connected with you
481
00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:09.410
or learn more about what you guys
are up to these days at Franklin copy?
482
00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:13.599
Wellogan, thank you for asking so
I'd be honor it if you follow
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00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.720
me on linked dinner connected I'm pretty
prominent on Linkedin, instagram, facebook.
484
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.319
You also can Google me, Scott
Lord Franklin Covey. You can visit Franklin
485
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:25.759
coveycom. Subscribe to our podcast on
leadership, comes out every Tuesday as well,
486
00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:30.029
and I'd say, I think,
at a check out Logan's firm,
487
00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:32.670
because you all know what you're doing. So I'm going to check you out
488
00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:35.789
as well to let's stay in touch. Prahps, theres of let your chip
489
00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:40.309
for us to do some work together. Absolutely new relationships happening over content collaboration
490
00:33:40.349 --> 00:33:45.740
are if you haven't checked out our
founders book yet, content based networking.
491
00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:49.220
Check that out in the show notes, folks, because this is just a
492
00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.579
testament to how well it works.
You get to create content, you get
493
00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:57.329
to build new friendships with folks that
you may not have cross baths with otherwise.
494
00:33:57.369 --> 00:34:00.410
Scott, this has been fantastic.
Thank you so much for getting on
495
00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:02.049
the show. Thank you. That, ever of water balloons going back and
496
00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:06.849
forth about four feet to my face
is quite remarkable and a little bit annoying.
497
00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:09.480
Hey, I held your own.
We delivered some great content. I
498
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.360
apologized. Water uptions. Oh,
that is fantastic. As always, folks,
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00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:21.559
thank you so much for listening.
Is the decisionmaker for your product or
500
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:24.750
service a BEDB MARKETER? Are you
looking to reach those buyers through the medium
501
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of podcasting? Consider becoming a cohost
of BB growth. This show is consistently
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ranked as a top one hundred podcast
in the marketing category of Apple Podcasts,
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and the show gets more than a
hundred and thirty thou downloads each month.
504
00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:44.420
We've already done the work of building
the audience, so you can focus on
505
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delivering incredible content to our listeners.
If you're interested, email logan at sweet
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fish Mediacom