Transcript
WEBVTT
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The great marketing teams are the ones
where the marketing leader is comfortable enough with
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their own skin that they say,
I am great at this and I'm going
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to hire somebody better than me in
this this and this area. A relationship
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with the right referral partner could be
a game changer for any BEDB company.
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So what if you could reverse engineer
these relationships at a moment's notice, start
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a podcast, invite potential referral partners
to be guests on your show and grow
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your referral network faster than ever.
Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're
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listening to be tob growth, a
daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've
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interviewed names you've probably heard before,
like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek,
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but you've probably never heard from the
majority of our guests. That's because the
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bulk of our interviews aren't with professional
speakers and authors. Most of our guests
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are in the trenches leading sales and
marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're
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experimenting with tactics, they're building the
fastest growing BEDB companies in the world.
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My name is James Carberry. I'm
the founder of sweet fish media, a
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podcast agency for BB brands, and
I'm also one of the cohosts of this
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show. When we're not interviewing sales
and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from
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behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of
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our journey as we attempt to take
over the world. Just getting well,
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maybe let's get into the show.
Up. Customer experience is anything that directly
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touches the customer, everything that the
customer sees. Those are the words and
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ideas of Dave Knox, our guests
on this episode of the B Tob Growth
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Show. My name is Ethan,
but I host the CX series here on
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the show. Dave is classically trained
in branding and marketing and brings a lot
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of expertise in that area, and
he's currently operating primarily with fast growth companies
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and venture capital. So we have
a great conversation for you. You are
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going to learn the pros and cons
of different ways to fund a company,
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you are going to learn about specific
improvements that you can make to your customer
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experience, especially in a high growth
environment, and you're going to get specific
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marketing mistakes that he sees too many
companies making. I hope you enjoy this
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episode. Hey, welcome back to
the customer experience podcast. You're going to
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love this episode. Our guest works
at the intersection of brands and technology,
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with a focus on startups, seed
funding and venture capital. He's currently a
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strategic advisor at predicting the turn.
He's also a podcast host of the same
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name predicting the turn. He's a
managing partner at Bind Street ventures, cofounder
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at the brandery, which is a
tech accelerator, and look forward to learn
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a little bit more about that.
And also interesting here's that he spent seven
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years of CMO at rockfish. This
is a company that's owned by WPPA,
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of formerly known as a global advertising
and PR agency, but now they called
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themselves a creative transformation agency. I
can see that becoming a conversation theme here
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today, and so our guest today, Dave knocks. Welcome to the customer
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experience podcast. Thank you for having
me. Yeah, I'm really excited about
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this. I think there's obviously a
lot going on with with brands, technology,
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disruption, innovation, and you're kind
of in an interesting seat around all
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of that, especially over the past
decade. So I look forward to getting
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into it. But I want to
start where I always start, which is
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your definition or your thoughts on customer
experience. Yeah, so customer experience,
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you're being a brand guy by training. I started my career proctor and gamble
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back in the day, and I
think of customer experience is being everything that's
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the front of the House, anything
that touches that consumer and can influence how
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they think about your company, your
brand, your business. So that's everything
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from the essence of the brand design
to marketing, to sales to how you
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show up at retail. That customer
experience is every single one of those touch
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points rolled together. That's awesome.
You've given me languish that I haven't heard
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on this question before and I've asked
it dozens of times. It's this clear
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delineation between front of House and back
of House, back of House being,
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of course, two things that most
people don't see, in front of House
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being, to your point, everything
that everyone experiences. So I love that.
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So go into your branding background.
You know I've had an I've had
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a couple branding experts on the show
and done and I put you a probably
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adjacent to, if not in that
category. I've let you decide to how
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you feel about that. But there
seems to be a fair amount of overlap
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from time to time in talking about
customer experience and brand experience or branding.
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What do you see the relationship there
as being at? Where they similar?
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Where they different? You have a
line between those two, or do you
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see them as approximately synonymous? Yeah, I think frankly they're. They're similar
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in there, if not completely overlapping. Customer Experience is definitely an emerging field
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that the language has really only come
about, I'd say, in the last
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decade. You've seen it in the
public eye. It wasn't something that when
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we were getting the training and branding
back in the day, was ever really
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talked about. is its own thing. It was just the essence of one
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of the things that you had to
do. But with the rise of bet
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to be marketing and the right of
direct to consumer efforts, I think that's
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what's given rise to the language of
customer experience. But if you're not doing
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branding the right way, if you're
not thinking about it as part of your
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core efforts, there what is the
essence of good branding to you? What
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what is this outcome? If someone
is committed to brand building what are the
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obvious consequences of that? Yeah,
so the essence of I think what makes
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great branding is evoking emotion, because
that's what a brand comes down to.
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Is it sparking something in a person
when they see what you are here,
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what you are when they hear your
brand? Do they know something and does
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it evoke an emotion with it?
And there's a wide range of what that
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emotion can be, but great branding
has thought about that, has dictated it
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and it's been planned across the board, and it's where it goes back to
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its being across every touch point.
Think about a company like Zappos. You
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can think a lot of things with
it, but essence it's going to be
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a great experience. That's probably what
you evoke and that feeling of happiness that
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goes into it. Love it.
The feeling part of it is often something
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that someone will offer in the definition
of customer experience, and so to wrap
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both of those together that they are
very, very overlapping. This is just
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a personal curiosity for me. I
mean coming up in PNG, I imagine
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that you got essentially the equivalent of
an MBA in your in your onboarding and
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training. What was that experience like
for you and how did that shape your
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career? Yeah, it's funny you
use those, those words of like an
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MBA, because for me that's exactly
what it was, png especially in brand
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management. It's kind of unique place
in that probably about ninety two hundred and
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ninety five percent of my colleagues as
assistant brand managers were coming from an MBA
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program and coming from usually a top
tier whether it was a booth or Harvard
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or something of that nature. I
was a twenty two year old kid coming
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from a public university with just a
bachelor of science and business. So for
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me it really really was the MBA, because one of the things that's amazing
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of a for five hundred company that
invests in their people is you get that
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training. You know, probably every
week for my first two, if not
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three years, there was a training
that I was going to that would either
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be a couple of hours or full
day. Every time. When you got
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promoted, you went to Assistant Brand
Manager College, then brand manager college and
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so forth and so on, and
you know, those were week long of
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all day events that they flew everyone
in from across the globe that was in
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your class, at at your level
so for me it really was that MBA,
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that kind of training. But I
think where it was differed from a
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just a classroom MBA was you combine
that learning with the fact at the same
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time you were putting those principles to
work the next day. You weren't just
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talking in theory and case studies,
but you were owning a twenty million dollar
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marketing budget the next day and doing
something with it. So that's why,
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you know, I do a lot
of talks at college campuses and especially when
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I talk to entrepreneur students. They
want to go start a business right away
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at twenty two, and all encourage
a lot of them of go find a
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place that you can get that training
first, because me at twenty two made
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a lot of mistakes and it was
a lot better to be making those mistakes
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on the the budget of a several
billion dollar company then my tiny budget if
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I was an entrepreneur. Right.
You know, your error in that context
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is a rounding error versus an error. With you as that you know,
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a twenty two year old maybe start
up founder could be fatal. Yes,
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that's exactly it, and it's one
of my first bosses. He said the
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great thing he goes. You know, just remember that we've created a system
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that has a safety belt on you. So drive the far car as fast
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as you can and we know that
we've got the seat felt. You'll be
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safe. I love it. It's
it's such good permission. It sounds like
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there's a really good culture there.
You like. When I think about are
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you familiar with the service profit chain? Loosely but not intimately, it sounds
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it basically the premises. You know, so many people focus on the far
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end of revenue and Growth, but
these are outcomes of a whole series of
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events that walk back through the customer
all the way back to employees, and
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so the premise is that when you
invest in hiring, onboarding, training,
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developing and you produce a good employee
experience, that everything else falls out from
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there as a consequence. So focus
there. Sounds like that was a part
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of your experience there at PNG.
I'm glad I ask. That's great and
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it actually leads me into a pair
of questions that I that I had prepared,
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which I'll ask. The first what's
happening at the intersection of brand and
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technology from a start up standpoint,
and then the and then the follow up
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is what's happening there from, you
know, maybe a fortune five hundred or
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just a generally a medium or large
corporation standpoint. Like at that intersection of
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Brandon Technology, were kind of live
and work and talk and advise and probably
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study and publish, etc. Talk
about that intersection from kind of a startup
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point of view. Yes, I
think one of the things that's really emerged
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is the fact that you have that
prominence of branding and marketing coming into play.
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One of my good friends is a
guy named Tim Copp who was the
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CMO for exact target and when Tim
joined is the CMO there in two thousand
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and seven. He kind of had
the premise that most of the betob world
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wasn't practicing brand marketing. They had
demand generation and they had traditional be to
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be marketing, but really this essence
of bringing brand into the world of technology
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was something that not many people had
done, and so that's something he really
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focused on and I think he was
a pioneer in a lot of ways,
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because fast forward ten years later and
I think actually some of the most exciting
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marketing that's going on and the most
exciting brand work is actually being led from
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the bet tob world instead of the
beat Toca world, and ironically, the
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beat to sea world is becoming more
about demand, Jen and performance marketing,
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which used to be the premise of
the bet be back in the day.
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So you've got this blending where I
think people are switching in between both of
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those worlds kind of interchangeably as a
result. Well, he kind of answered
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both questions in one there and it
sounds like there's just a little bit of
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a flip flop there, which is
really interesting. Why do you think that
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is the case? Added just a
couple ideas that came to mind as you
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were talking about it. But you
know, why do you think that's the
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case? That BTC has, to
your view, maybe historically been less demand
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Jen in base and moving in that
direction, and startups and tech being less
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brand focused and started moving that way, or so be tob rather. Yes,
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I think the Bet Toc one is
a really simple one, which is
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the rise of direct to consumer brands
has changed the business that these guys have
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to be in because, you know, you look at a Peng Uni lever
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and even a Ford Motor Company.
We called them the biggest consumer marketing companies
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out there, but they actually didn't
sell directly to the consumer. You know,
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the auto guys had to go through
their dealerships, the pegs in the
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UNI levers had to go through Walmart
and target. They never actually own the
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end customer and that's why you would
hear in those worlds they talked about a
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customer in a consumer Walmart was the
customer and the consumer was the person that
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was buying the product. So that's
one change that's played out, I think,
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in a lot of cases. And
then on the flip side, the
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way the reason for be to be
is the I'd say infusion of technology into
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the lives of be to be has
caused a Cole that has taken place,
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and what I mean by that is
think back two thousand and eight, two
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thousand and nine, as you know, the iphone was just coming out.
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It used to be that, you
know, the enterprise in the IT guys,
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they dictate what technology you got issued. You get your blackberry, get
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your laptop, and then you had
all these people that had two phones.
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They had their work blackberry and they
had their personal iphone, and the iphone
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got started dragging in and, you
know, more and more into be to
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be. And what end up happening
is the consumer and customer experience that you
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had with an iphone, with facebook, with every piece of technology, you
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would then walk into the workplace and
expect that same level of high end experience
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and that's really, I think,
driven that behavior. That in turn caused
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all the be tob marketers have to
elevate their game in the same way.
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I love it's a really interesting pushing
pull there. He mentioned earlier that some
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of the more exciting and interesting marketing
is being done in the be tob space.
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What are a couple things that come
to mind there? Yeah, so
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you know, one of the ones, and I know you have a favorite
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question around who's doing customer experience right? So one of the companies I love
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is terminus, and terminus is one
of these great startups that's really redefining this
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world of account based marketing, and
what I love is it's a twofold thing
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one. I just think account based
marketing as a whole is one of the
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more interesting trends we're seeing in the
world of marketing today, and the orchestration
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and Co ordination of a great abm
campaign requires you to just be a great
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strategic marketer. It's about an art
and science that combines. So one I
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love the fact that they're helping rise. You give rise to that, but
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they're also practicing what they preach and
you look at the work that they're doing
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with flip my funnel, creating the
community around that, the podcast that creates
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the content with it, all of
those efforts together are just truly truly top
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notch across the board. Yeah,
I love it. It's a great example.
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Sand Rum Vajrai leads it as kind
of the face in the personality and
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in the podcast host all off in
a speaker as well, and really coming
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from a place of value and education
and building a community around the concept or
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the problem of contemporary be to be
marketing today rather than being pitching software,
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pitching software, pitching software, pitching
software. It's so funny the way one
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just naturally rolls out into the other
and we're both here. Several might team
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members are both consumers of the stuff
that they put out in as well as
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being subscribers to the software as well. I love that you took it there.
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Anything else you want to share about
like the large corporate standpoint, like
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what are some of the challenges that
they're facing? I think the one big
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thing that I that I took note
of already, is that the market has
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changed on them and that they are
now direct to consumers a consequence of or
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more often than before. I obviously
they still use retail, but anything else
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going on for like someone that's in
a large brand or a large company,
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that should be on the radar.
Yes, one of my favorite pieces of
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content out there is something that was
done by Stanford University, actually, that
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Aaron Levy, who's one of the
the found under a box. He did
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a class along with another colleague that
was called the industrialist dilemma, and you
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can go watch all the videos.
They put all the content up online for
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it, and what I love about
that whole premise is it plays off,
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obviously, the innovator dilemma and talking
about the struggle for lab the fortune five
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hundred today is that the very things
that gave them their competi advantage over the
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last few decades are now a liability
for them. In a world of six
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sigma. You got your factories to
be at this perfect balance line of profitability
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and you had all these other things
that went to perfection. But when the
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business that you're in changes, what
do you actually do with those historical things
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that once gave you an advantage.
You you take what's happened in the world
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of shaving. It wasn't a jet
den see dollar shaved club coming. It
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was they couldn't go in and tell
Walmart, Hey, by the way,
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we're going to launch something that competes
directly against you. So those relationships become
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a liability. And what do you
do with it? And that's kind of
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at the heart of what I wrote
about in predicting the turn and the work
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I'm doing with the podcast, is
how can you one address that fact,
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realize it's happening and then do something
about it? How can you go practice
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and learn from this world of innovation
and then bringing the bring that learning back
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into your hallways? And for me
it's practicing this concept of market intelligence that
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gives you the ability to see the
how and when the future of your industry
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is going to happen by being externally
focused and learning from what's happening with venture
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and with startups and everything else across
the board. What are a couple ways
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that someone gets so? So it's
one thing to see these trends and to
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identify them recognize your own liabilities.
How are. How is like, you
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know, a thousand person or Tenzero
or even hundred thousand person organization? How
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do they kind of make that turn? Or they starting essentially doing startups inside
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the larger organization, giving them freedom
to explore and learn in a practical way?
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Like what have you seen or heard
around that? Yeah, practical standpoint.
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Yeah, I mean there's dozens of
models that you can look at and
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not one is ever going to be
the right thing. You need to do
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a little bit of all of them, but a few that I personally really
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love. So one is corporate venture
capital. One of the reasons I love
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corporate DC is I think a lot
of people try and get incorporate DC for
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the same reason a VC gets into
it, which is the financial returns.
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That's actually the least valuable thing for
corporate DC. You need to do it,
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you need to make a good return
on capital and everything else. But
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the amazing thing about a venture capitalist
is every single day they have dozens of
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people walking into their doors and telling
them where the future is headed them,
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and a great investor is able to
see all those things have their own thesis
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of where they think the world is
headed. But combine that with breadth and
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depth and pattern recognition of I'm hearing
this, this and this. I think
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that means something to my business and
a corporate VC is a great way to
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be able to do that, to
bring that in, to learn from it
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and not just look for deal flow
and good investments, but actually use as
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as market intelligence for Your Business.
So that's one thing that I love that
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I think a lot of you know. Nearly every corporation should have their an
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effort in that space. The second
one is involvement in the startup community,
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because corporate VC, while super valuable, you only will catch a company at
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that moment that they're looking for investment. So you might limit yourself if you're
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only doing that. So that's why
you need to involved with a lot of
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different versions of startup engagement and that
startup engagement can be partnerships, it can
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be accelerators, it can be any
of those elements. But the mistake most
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corporations make is they pick one version
of startup engagement and that doesn't give them
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a note breath. You can't throw
your name on a corporate accelerator and said
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I'm seeing ten startups, so I've
done everything. You need to get out
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there and do a lot more.
So I'm at least of the belief that
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rate engagement in the startup world and
the way to predict that turn is you
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have to do every thing that you
can, and that means doing investment,
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that means doing partnership, that means
looking at launching your own efforts and that
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might even mean acquisition and finding companies
that you can bring into your halls as
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well. Love it. I just
occurred to me is, as you said,
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predicting the turn again for you.
What is the turn? Yeah,
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so the turn is the moment when
business changes. So the analogy I play
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off of is if you play poker, the turn is that fourth card that
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comes out and if you're in the
game at the fourth card coming down,
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you think you have a chance to
win. And the thing where watching right
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now in the world of business is
there's some people sitting around the table that
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don't realize they're actually playing a different
game than they originally sat down with.
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And so the turn is that moment
in business and in the game of business
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where things change and you need to
be anticipating what that change is going to
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be. It's a great analogy.
I'm glad I asked. So shifting it
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just a little bit, you know, I've I've heard and observed that that
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VC's are giving a higher multiple two
companies with low churn rates and, of
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course, higher tension rates, and
there are clear customer experience implications there.
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Is this something you've observed and are
you doing any advising around what you know
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smaller, younger companies can do out
of the gate to be successful and get
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and get better multiples down the road? Yes, I mean the game of
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multiples is always an interesting evolving one
in the world of venture because it flows
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someone in line with the public markets, that as multiples change and different metrics
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matter more or less, you see
that constant evolution. So what I always
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encourage companies is you need to pay
attention to your matrics, be super focused
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on your matrics, but you should
be doing everything about building a great business,
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not building a business based on what
multiple you help you're going to get,
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because we're not going to be in
control of that. You know,
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next year, when if the world
of MARTEC suddenly becomes unattractive on Wall Street,
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doesn't matter what you did with turn
rates or anything else, you're going
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to see your metrics blow up you
know, just ask any of the poor
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ad tech companies that went public three
four years ago how much they they were
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out of their control in that.
But with all of that, that's what
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our job is marketers, is to
figure out how to make the best metrics
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possible for our business and to really
be driving, to put ourselves in the
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driver's seat, because the the single
biggest thing that will influence, you know,
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later stage investment valuations or anything else, is not needing venture capital if
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you don't need the money because you've
created a business that has great metrics and
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maybe even as hit profitability because of
those great metrics. If you don't need
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the money, everyone's to want to
give you the money, right, and
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that's our job to kind of put
yourself in those controls. So that's exactly
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why I've been doing. You mentioned
the title Strategic Consultant. The work I've
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been doing since living leaving WPP and
rock fish is what I call being a
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strategic marketing coach. So I'm not
doing consulting in it. What I'm doing
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is executive coaching in terms of how
can marketers positions up themselves the best way
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within an organization, how to mentor
and Coach and help you get there faster,
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because marketing is a thing that anybody
can figure it out. It's not
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something that requires a PhD, but
it requires your tenzero hours of practice,
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and what I'm trying to help marketers
do is get their tenzero hours of practice
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a little bit quicker by stealing some
of the hours that I've had at the
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plate. Love it, since I
have easier since I am a marketer,
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and we have a lot of marketers
listening as well. What are one or
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two or three common things that you
see in that coaching? Opportunities for growth
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or common errors or whatever like?
What are what are a couple things that
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you tend to speak too frequently in
these engagements? Yeah, so I think
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the the most common thing is what
starts with talent, and it's amazing how
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often it comes down to that that
great marketers hire other great marketers, and
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where I've seen marketing organizations that have
not been realizing their potential is generally where
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the marketing leader was. If they
were, they were hiring below their level,
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and why mean by that was they
were maybe not comfortable with something and
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instead of hiring an a talent that
would show how their weakness and expose their
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weakness. They hired a B or
a C player that was maybe at parody
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with their weakness. And I don't
think anybody does it maliciously or intentionally,
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but almost every single time I've seen
a weakness in a mark a marketing team,
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it comes down to that. And
on the flip side, those organizations
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they're great is when a marketer realizes
you can't do everything and a great marketer
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is probably only actually going to be
great in two or three areas at best
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and weak in a lot more than
that. And the great marketing teams are
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the ones where the marketing leader is
comfortable enough with their own skin that they
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say, I am great at this
and I'm going to hire somebody better than
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me in this, this and this
area, and what ends up happening is
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the entire team ends up elevating in
a great place, so that in pretty
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much every company I work with,
the ones that aren't hitting on all cylinders,
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that is the common cause in ninety
eight percent of the situations. So
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I always start with that one.
The similar one to that is, I
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think, a fear of thinking you
have to build everything yourself. There is
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a real value of tapping into expertise
externally and using that to your advantage,
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because you get credit for success.
You don't get credit for doing the work
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yourself. But I think a lot
of marketers we feel like we have to
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get credit for doing the work ourselves. So if you can go pull in
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a demand an agency to help you
for four or five months, that get
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your foundation builds built, get your
marketing tach in a great place, do
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it, take advantage of it.
Don't spend the time to hire that person,
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bring them on, on board,
them like. Just go off and
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do it, and that's something that
I think we're afraid of sometimes to do,
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but we don't have time. As
a startup, your most valuable thing
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is executing. Executing quickly to bring
an experts to help you higher great things
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when you can, but bring in
partners help you get things done faster as
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well. And then I think the
final thing that marketers kind of make a
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mistake is in not building up,
up, building up enough credibility with their
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peers and other functions. They put
their head down and say I have X,
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Y Z to accomplish in marketing and
I'm going to go off and go
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do it. But what you actually
first need to do is figure out where
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can marketing help your peers across the
organization to do their job even better.
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So sit down with your peer over
and sales, with your CEO, with
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customer service, go across that board
and how can you help them? Because
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if you have that give first mentality, that's going to pay maximum dividends for
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you later on down the road.
Yeah, such great advice. They're all
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three of those were fantastic. That
last one is really something I'm trying to
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explore here on the show, because
customer experiences delivered in part by all the
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people you mentioned, and so in
the customer looks different at different points based
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on what seat ear and in the
organization, and so the more holistic view
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you can give yourself as a marketer
and the more you can share your own
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understanding and point of view with other
people at other touch points, I think
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the better off we're all going to
be. The other interesting thing there too
386
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is bridging one and two together.
The ability to hire that outside resource or
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that outside talent or that outside service
is going to be much easier when you
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have someone who is more expert in
that topic area, you know, to
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your point of like hiring to complement
your weaknesses as opposed to, you know,
390
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hiring poorly to protect your strengths or
protect your ego or, you know,
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all those other things that we're not
consciously doing. What we're doing.
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We're going to be able to contract, probably contract and negotiate and evaluate that
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work in that partnership with a third
party more effectively if you have someone who's
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more expert in that topic area.
Yeah, without doubt. So. At
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bombomb here we are bootstrapped. You
know, we took some friends and family
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money early on. We've been in
and out of a couple debt deals,
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but you know pretty much that some
of the primary owners of the company are
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in the business every single day working
here. Talk a little bit for people
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that are that are at a point, you know, because we've looked at
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we've looked at obviously all the opportunities
are. CEO's phone rings regularly and gets
401
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emails on, solicited and solicited,
about opportunities. Talk about the kind of
402
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the pros and cons in the various
like big buckets for someone that isn't super
403
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familiar with ways to fund an operation
and get it, get a business to
404
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a healthy point. What are some
pros and cons of different ways to go.
405
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Yes, I think it really does
depend on the company, what your
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goals are and what you're looking to
accomplish. The only reason to ever look
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at funding and whether it's fundings,
venture capital, friends and family, debt
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00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.789
rounds, any of the different options
out there, funding should be about helping
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00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:47.950
you accomplish milestones and that needs to
be the goal of any time you ever
410
00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:52.019
take money, because you know,
taking money it's like getting a mortgage on
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00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:56.019
your house and we never go brag
about how big of a mortgage we got
412
00:30:56.140 --> 00:31:00.380
when we purchase a house. Yet
a lot of times we go raise money
413
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.019
and we want to go brag about
how much money we raise, and that's
414
00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:07.170
the wrong thing to be doing.
So whenever you approach any sort of funding,
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00:31:07.210 --> 00:31:11.049
it should because this helped me do
a milestone quicker, faster, better,
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00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.970
etc. And then know that any
of those models of funding will all
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00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:19.400
call it come with different things that
they dictate from you. You know,
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00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:23.519
if you take a line of credit
or venture debt, well, that's something
419
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.319
that has to be steadily repaid and
so you better have a consistent flow of
420
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.630
cash that's coming in to be able
to do that, because if it takes
421
00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:36.430
you a little bit of extra to
get your product out or something else,
422
00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:38.589
well, you still get to start
paying back the interest on that debt,
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00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:41.549
whether you like it or not.
On the flip side, you look at
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00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:47.500
venture capital, it's a little bit
more patient, but it's only patient for
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00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:52.619
so long because venture funds have to
be usually they're raising a ten year venture
426
00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:55.900
fund, so they need you to
repay that at some point as well,
427
00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.339
and there will be pressures that come
into that, etc. So with all
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00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:02.049
of them it's just being cognizant.
What do you want to do as your
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00:32:02.089 --> 00:32:07.890
business, and then what are the
things that will happen with those different sources?
430
00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:09.890
Based on your goals? What's going
to be the best way to go
431
00:32:09.930 --> 00:32:14.250
off in to do it? The
final thing I'll say on that is that
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00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:19.759
realize that all money isn't created equal
either. I think the biggest mistake I
433
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.119
see from startups in the law cases
is when they do make the decision to
434
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.720
go raise money, and when I
say raise I mean usually venture capital or
435
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:36.670
private equity. They are optimizing based
on valuations, and optimizing on valuation is
436
00:32:36.829 --> 00:32:40.309
the exact wrong thing to do.
What you should be doing is optimizing about
437
00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:45.700
the people that will be around the
table and who will help you be successful
438
00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:50.579
to do that. So find the
the smartest people you can and and raise
439
00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:53.259
money from them, because hopefully what
you want is those that can help you
440
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:59.009
do your business better. Such good
advice. I absolutely love what you offered
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00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:01.329
there. The money is a means
to an end. You need to be
442
00:33:01.490 --> 00:33:06.730
clear on the end, and in
this case it's achieving another milestone or two.
443
00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:08.970
And I would go out on a
limb to say, because I've not
444
00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:12.730
been in that conversation before, but
I would go on a limb to say
445
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.279
your clarity on the answers to those
questions of what are you trying to get
446
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.319
done here? Are going to be
questions you need to answer anyways. You
447
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.640
should be clear on that regardless.
And then the final offering there is that
448
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.829
it's all about relationships and fit.
I would say that a culture match is
449
00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:30.390
probably critical. They're like again,
more important than the multiple is is the
450
00:33:30.430 --> 00:33:35.829
kind of the culture match, who's
there? What additional intangible value are you
451
00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:39.269
can get out of it besides just
the financial or transactional aspect of it?
452
00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:45.140
Exactly good, and so I'll just
use that to roll right into to the
453
00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:47.740
question I always like to ask here
as we wrap up, because relationships are
454
00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:52.539
our number one core value. Can
you think or mention someone who's had a
455
00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:55.210
positive impact on your life or your
career and give a mention to a company
456
00:33:55.289 --> 00:34:00.049
that you think is doing customer experience
and in this case branding? I might
457
00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:05.210
have just been redundant. There do
doing that really well. Yeah, so
458
00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:07.090
the you know, the first one
I'd kind of say from a thank you
459
00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:10.840
standpoint in somebody that's been a big
impact is a woman named Wendy Lee.
460
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.639
Wendy is, she was on the
board of directors, or is on the
461
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.639
board of directors for Text Stars,
but we actually met when she is the
462
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.349
CEO of gets satisfaction, which was
a great company in the the customer experience
463
00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:29.750
space back late to thousands, and
when I was thinking about leaving PNG,
464
00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:32.550
Wendy was one of the people that
I first sat down with and said here's
465
00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:37.750
what I'm thinking about, here's why
I want accomplish and she gave me amazing
466
00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:40.860
advice that I've given to countless people
after me, which was, you know,
467
00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:45.260
think about where you want to go
in life and go one degree closer
468
00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.539
every time you make a move and
she said every time I've seen somebody fall
469
00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:53.409
on their face it's because they're trying
to jump to May degrees over and that's
470
00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:58.489
very tough to do. And so
that's been amazing advice for me and it's
471
00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:01.489
something that I've shared a lot and
I've seen Wendy share a lot because she
472
00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:06.489
then, after gets as faction,
actually came here to Cincinnati for the last
473
00:35:06.489 --> 00:35:10.400
few years to be our CEO for
cent reviews, a great organization that we
474
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:15.519
had here in town that's doing really
kind of fun things making impact. And
475
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.760
then, you know, to your
question about who's doing it doing it right,
476
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.230
I'll actually bring back to example I've
shared earlier, which is I do
477
00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:27.869
think terminus is one that, if
you haven't studied it as a Bab marketer
478
00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:31.750
and as a concustomer experience professional,
it's one you need to dive into.
479
00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.980
And the reason I think it's interesting
is there's a mantro, especially with so
480
00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:40.420
much of Silicon Valley being a driver
of the startup world, that you hear
481
00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:45.019
the well, you need the hacker, the Hustler and the designer as that
482
00:35:45.219 --> 00:35:50.730
Holy Trinity for the Startup World.
And what was fascinating with terminus is that
483
00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.090
Sangrum was one of the CO founders
as the chief marketing officer, and having
484
00:35:55.090 --> 00:36:00.050
a marketer as that founding team member, especially for a company that was going
485
00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:05.800
to be selling to marketers. You
saw from day one they built the customer
486
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.480
into the heart and soul of what
they were doing and there's so much inspiration
487
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.320
of how can you do that from
day one that just will pay dividends for
488
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.280
a long, long time. It's
outstanding. I really love the e double
489
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.869
down on that and look forward to
sharing that feedback with him too. I'm
490
00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.590
sure he'll appreciate that. Can you
give people a few ways, if anyone
491
00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:29.269
wants to go deeper learn more about
the the various projects that you're involved in?
492
00:36:29.429 --> 00:36:31.510
Check out the PODCAST, check out
the book. What are some ways
493
00:36:31.510 --> 00:36:35.219
that people can follow up with you? Yeah, so a few different ways.
494
00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.460
One is pretty much any social thing
you can think of. I'm at
495
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:42.699
Dave knocks, so twitter linkedin.
Go go down the list. All there.
496
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.019
So just at Dave Knox, all
one word and then predicting the turncom
497
00:36:46.210 --> 00:36:51.769
is my website that you can find
all kinds of information, whether it's about
498
00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.170
a link to the book, to
my podcast, to the work I do
499
00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.130
actually as a professional speaker with conferences
and corporates or just what I'm doing from
500
00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.880
an Executive Marketing Coaching area. So
any of those are a great place and
501
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:08.559
always happy take an email at day
at predicting the turncom excellent. I hope
502
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:13.000
people take you up on that really, really great advice. You've seen a
503
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.389
lot of stuff. You obviously have
a very intelligent, informed perspective and I
504
00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:21.190
love the you continue to explore it
through the podcast medium as well. If
505
00:37:21.230 --> 00:37:24.550
you want to subscribe to predicting the
turn or to the customer experience podcast,
506
00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:30.260
you can find either of them in
apple podcasts, itunes and in all the
507
00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:34.820
other spots where you normally listen to
a podcast. Thanks so much for this
508
00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:37.780
episode. Thank you, day for
your time. Thank you. Thank you
509
00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:42.820
for everything. When you're doing with
bombomb as well. I agree with Dave.
510
00:37:43.139 --> 00:37:46.849
Terminus is an awesome company and they
are modeling great behavior in terms of
511
00:37:46.929 --> 00:37:52.570
community building. Hey, if you
enjoyed this conversation on the CX series of
512
00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:57.650
the B tob growth show, check
out the customer experience podcast. You can
513
00:37:57.690 --> 00:38:01.960
learn more about it by searching the
customer experience podcasting itunes or apple podcast or
514
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:09.199
spotify or google play or Google podcasts, or you can go to Bombombcom podcast.
515
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.269
That's the word bomb twice. Bomb
Bombcom forward slash podcast. Thanks for
516
00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:22.630
listening. We totally get it.
We publish a ton of content on this
517
00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:27.070
podcast and it can be a lot
to keep up with. That's why we've
518
00:38:27.110 --> 00:38:30.739
started the BOB growth big three,
a noe fluff email that boils down our
519
00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:36.539
three biggest takeaways from an entire week
of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet
520
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Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet
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