Customers First, Strategy Second, with Kaylee Edmondson

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.640 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome 2 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:20.280 back to be tob growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and excited 3 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:24.760 to have Kaylee Edmondson with us, director of Demanjin at bright wheel. Many 4 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.239 of you will know her from her time at Chili Piper. Kaylee, welcome 5 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:31.199 in. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm 6 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:35.399 pumped to be here. Yes, so you've been through a shift, which 7 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.640 is part of why I wanted to invite you on to BTB growth, because 8 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:44.359 what, five months ago, you went all right out of Martech into Ed 9 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:48.840 Tech, which is not a small pivot, and want to go let's talk 10 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:52.359 about the change, let's talk about what you're seeing and learn something from that 11 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:56.679 for our marketing audience. Tell me, like a specific change here off the 12 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:00.759 top, that maybe you weren't expecting and has hit over the last five months 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.519 as you go into Ed yeah, I know, I think that's super fascinating. 14 00:01:03.599 --> 00:01:10.400 Call out one that I will admit I didn't take to heart as much 15 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.519 in early days. The calling for me to move out of Martech and Ed 16 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:18.840 Tech felt it just felt right. I felt a calling or like very passionate 17 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:23.879 about right wheel and the technology itself. So it never really crossed my mind 18 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.879 like, Oh, this actually it's going to be like maybe something very different 19 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:32.359 from what you've been doing for like literally the entire rest of my career to 20 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.280 this point. The largest piece, I think, that stood out to me 21 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:41.640 the most is like just the high level aspect that innovation in spaces that are 22 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:47.640 not Martech is very, very far behind, especially in demand Jen. You 23 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:52.480 think about all of the growth and momentum that demand Jen as a function has 24 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:57.000 made in the last five years even. Yeah, all of that is really 25 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.959 like hyper growth within this Martech bubble. Once you move outside of Martech and 26 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.359 you're bringing that Lens and you know that like, quote unquote, like playbook, 27 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.360 all the learnings, all the experiences I've had within this Martech bubble, 28 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:15.240 and then you're moving yourself into this d tech space, it's almost like paralyzing 29 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:21.039 at first how behind, honestly, just how behind everything is. There's so 30 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.319 much in that aspect, low hanging fruit for you to really sink your teeth 31 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:30.000 into an early days and make huge strides for your business. Interesting. Yeah, 32 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.000 so I used to live overseas and we would talk about how America in 33 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:38.639 many ways was like twenty years, twenty five years ahead in whether it's technology 34 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.120 or just certain systems and things, and I think of that too in like 35 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.639 Martech to others. And we just did a survey where I had a response 36 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:47.680 I was reading this morning, Kayley, where the guy was like, I 37 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:52.280 love your show, but you talked to so many Martech leaders and I want 38 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:55.919 to hear you talk to some other just tech leaders in other industries, because 39 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.919 they're not all experiencing what your guests are talking about, because the pace isn't 40 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:05.840 quite the same. And I think that's exactly kind of what you're experiencing now, 41 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:07.599 right. No, I think it totally is, and it's literally in 42 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:14.039 every aspect, right from from SEO to the paid entity, how we're tracking 43 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:19.439 and measuring success, alignment between sales and the customer, success leadership, like 44 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.840 all of that is so, so different. And again, right, I'm 45 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:28.159 moving from it years of Martek experience to one at tech experience. But in 46 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:31.719 this said Tech Opportunity, I do have like a really nice group of mentors 47 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:36.960 and almost like a board team that we partner with as a company so that 48 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:42.840 I can talk to other growth and demandain leaders that sit in other non MARTEC 49 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.879 SASS based solutions, and even they are on this same scale of just like 50 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:53.039 at least being five to ten years behind the bubble that I've just come from. 51 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:57.879 What I like about it is you can take like the best and not 52 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.439 just the hype, because sometimes in Martec we're guilty of like what's the next 53 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:05.159 cutting edge things? So like let's just attempt at all built right and then 54 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:10.840 stump stuff just doesn't land or doesn't last at all. So I think of 55 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:15.199 your time and specifically because of your time and Demandain, you could just come 56 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.199 in, you could go like, I'm going to run my playbook. You 57 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:24.959 have your ways of thinking about it that you're bringing with you, but how 58 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.240 did you determine or kind of come in and decide, like what you wanted 59 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.240 to do first and really take advantage of those early days at bright? Well, 60 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:35.240 now that's been like five months, you can kind of look back with 61 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:38.959 a little bit of hindsight, right. Yeah, I know, absolutely, 62 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.839 I think so, and I think that, to your point about a playbook, 63 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.800 playbook is like becoming a word. That is almost like when marketers say 64 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:48.879 campaign, it's like us so much that it liked means nothing. Playbook is 65 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:54.040 starting to feel that way for me, to where it's not really a playbook, 66 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:57.600 though. There is no scenario, no scenario at all. Even if 67 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:01.519 you are moving from Martech to Martech Company, your buyer should still be slightly 68 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:05.279 different. Your value probably different. Where this people hang out is probably different, 69 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:10.040 like all of it is different literally by company. So to take the 70 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.639 approach from Martech to Ed Tech or in any company of like, Oh, 71 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.480 I did all of these things at this company, they will be directly applicable 72 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.040 at this new Gig, I just know it is setting you up for failure 73 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:25.120 day one. So I think that what's more important is having a really strong 74 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:30.680 first principles mindset of being able to dig into your existing ecosystem really partner so, 75 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.600 so close with your customer base, get to know who they are, 76 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.519 how they think, where they live, how they talk. More importantly, 77 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.839 right I'm moving from ten years of experience where I'm talking to people who largely 78 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:45.399 talk like I do, who's daily pain points are the same pain points I'm 79 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:49.279 experiencing, into a world where our primary buyer is now center directors, owners 80 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.839 operators of preschool centers. I, admittedly, have never been an owner or 81 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:59.680 an operator of a preschool center and they care about drastically different things than this 82 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:01.959 world them coming from. So what's going to set me up for success in 83 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.120 this role is like, first and foremost, I really need to get to 84 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:10.279 know this body of humans, how they think, where they live, what 85 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.439 they care about, things that would really improve their day and make a difference 86 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.279 in how they're able to run and operate their center at scale, and figure 87 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.480 out how to implement that into what we're actually going to market with. Now, 88 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:26.279 this first principle's mindset, though, of Demandin is like very much applicable 89 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.639 even to like my days at Chili Piper. Coming in here. We still 90 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.079 have, like we still have programming, we're still advertising a multiple channels, 91 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.160 we have a crm, we have a marketing automation solution. Like all of 92 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.720 those things are the same, right. So start with what you know. 93 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.720 They get into your existing data set, understand where there are huge drops and 94 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.959 conversion rates or gaps in your funnel, etc. And start optimizing there. 95 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.439 The output is what's going to be drastically different, right, like how do 96 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:54.519 we reach these people? How do we impact them? How do we talk 97 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:56.480 to them? How do they stop? How do we stop them in their 98 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:00.240 scroll right. These people are some of the most overworked and underserved in the 99 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:05.519 world and desert like deserve so much more. And so how do we really 100 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:10.959 capture their attention in a way that is impactful and then, ultimately, obviously, 101 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:14.279 will help us meet our goals and grow our business? Yeah, let's 102 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:17.759 talk about how you've gone about connecting with with these people, because it's a 103 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.360 change in mindset when you can't just relate naturally, but you're going, all 104 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.879 right, I want to get in your shoes in a sense that I can 105 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:29.399 then equip our team to like be best serve right the market. So what 106 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.800 does that look like? How have you gone about that, trying to connect? 107 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.319 Is it customer calls? Is it even like? What has it looked 108 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:40.319 like to connect with these people? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm very fortunate 109 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.800 that I've come into an organization that years ago understood the value of creating a 110 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.480 community. So we do have our own owned community in a facebook group that 111 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:54.040 has a couple thousand members. So that's awesome. Basically started by just reading. 112 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.560 They hang out on facebook. All of these are really big fans of 113 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:00.560 facebook. So, which is also shift for me. Naturally, I'm coming 114 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:03.959 from like a largely a linkedin world jumping into this facebook world, but we 115 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.519 do have, for over threezero members in a private facebook community that are very 116 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.839 active and talk about problems, wins, issues that they're dealing with, parents, 117 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.360 communication styles, like all kinds of things that are top of mine. 118 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.120 For them, they go to this community to try and seek out help from 119 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.079 their network, which is great for us to be able to consume as well 120 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.120 and help facilitate that that networking abilities. That was my first like line of 121 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.120 Defense, was to really just start in immersing myself there and consuming the conversations 122 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.919 that were happening outside of that. In my first at least two weeks to 123 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.919 three weeks here, I had partnered with our CS lead to be like hey, 124 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:45.000 we have thousands of customers. Can like how does this work? Like 125 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.799 I don't want to be super like disruptive of your process or your flow. 126 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:50.639 Tell me which fields or values I need to look for and sales first, 127 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.480 to know that I'm like within bounds to be able to give these people a 128 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.000 cold call. She's like sure, no problem, here you go, like 129 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:00.039 these are the filters I would use. Call anybody. Just log it and 130 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:01.559 sales for so that we know you've chatted with them whatever. So I just 131 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.480 started cold calling customers three to four weeks in, set myself like a self 132 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.720 attained goal to call, cold call and connect with forty of them, and 133 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.399 just logged it all. I had six questions, logged it all on a 134 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.919 spreadsheet. Got Some really, really good qualitative feedback. But also, like 135 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.279 in a world where daycare visits or visiting preschool centers isn't really an option right 136 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.799 now because covid protocols and things, it really did allow me to, interestingly 137 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:33.960 enough, immerse myself in their day. These teachers, educators, center directors 138 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.039 answer the phone in the middle of a zoo. You can hear the zoo 139 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.840 in the background running around. They're, you know, trying to organize children, 140 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:43.639 get their jackets on, get ready to go outside for playtime, wash 141 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.480 their hands, get ready for lunch. Like they will call you in the 142 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.399 middle of a storm. They'll answer and they're super excited to chat with you. 143 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:52.559 So they're just like very eager to share their story and talk about their 144 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.360 center and how much passion they have, you know, for helping out the 145 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:00.039 students, that they're able to help all these things. But in the the 146 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.759 middle of chaos, which was also quite illuminating to me things that will never 147 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.120 show up in a spreadsheet, that these people are so insanely busy. Like, 148 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.559 if we are going to take any amount of their time, we need 149 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.960 to make sure that it is like the best use of their time and that 150 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.960 we're also allowing them some freedom to like potentially be mobile while we're chatting with 151 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.000 them. Right, like they're not all like us. They're not on their 152 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.279 laptop all day long, so that that experience in and of itself to literally 153 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.960 just cold call and connect with customers has been super, super helpful for me 154 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.919 and early stages, and it makes the facebook group makes so much sense to 155 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.200 because when they're that busy, if you can just jump on there as a 156 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.519 way of connecting at a moment when you're free, it seems just so natural, 157 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.240 in the same way that like Linkedin is. You know where I live, 158 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.480 but I lived there because it's where the idea of people are that would 159 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.960 have problems that I have. So sounds like a so different because facebook group 160 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.399 seems like such an old thing, but then at the same time you're like 161 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.080 it just logically makes so much sense, which actually leads perfectly to one thing 162 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.360 I wanted to bring up because I think it was the end of two thousand 163 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:03.960 and twenty one you had wrote an article or talked about this idea of like 164 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.600 cultivating a social first culture at Chili Piper to drive demand, and I wondered 165 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:15.440 now, just being in this different space, has social state like how his 166 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.759 social stated key component in the new strategy and and what is it look like? 167 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.799 Do you think of social, like a social first culture, being something 168 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.360 you're developing now? Yeah, so I think that social first for Chili Piper 169 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.480 had different outputs or like value points. Right obviously it helps us for our 170 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:37.679 business itself, but it also gives like crazy dividends to our interview and applicant 171 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.200 pool. So for right will specifically, I still think like we do have 172 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.639 several players here that are starting to lead the way for what social can do 173 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.279 for this business organically, like outside of paid levers for prospecting, and I 174 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.159 still feel like it's making a huge impact, but different impact hiring right primarily. 175 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.200 If we are active as employees on Linkedin, it's largely for hiring. 176 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:07.039 However, we do have some ideas in our pocket around us really becoming the 177 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:13.000 category leader for innovation in the early education space. Early Education as a whole 178 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:18.399 is largely underfunded and behind on innovation in terms of where we, as bright 179 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.159 will, would love for that industry to be. And so we would love 180 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:28.679 to leverage better, leverage linkedin from a business perspective, not only for hiring 181 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.360 but also to help establish us as that category leader for helping leverage our technology 182 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.200 and our insights in the space to really propel this industry forward. Now, 183 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.360 that doesn't necessarily mean that we'll be breaching center directors there, but in the 184 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.840 EC space that's also very intertwined with government. There's a lot of other committee 185 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.679 members that could be involved in helping not only bright will be successful, but 186 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:58.840 helping US really propel this industry forward that are on Linkedin right. So it's 187 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:03.360 like anybody that's in government is on Linkedin. Anyone that would be working for 188 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:09.320 a corporation for some of these larger early education conglomerates also on linkedin those types 189 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.039 of things. So I think our play will be different because, like first 190 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.720 principles, I still think that it's important for us to be present there and 191 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.919 to make it known like who we are and how we can help people. 192 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.720 But the play will be very different than it was from that at Chili Piper. 193 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.000 Interestingly enough, all of these people are on facebook. So we will 194 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:30.360 be making a larger move on facebook, but not from personal ending. It 195 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.279 will be from a company account. Okay, we have hired a subject matter 196 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.759 expert to come in house and work for us full time, which will also 197 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:41.600 really help us unlock some levers in bringing that combination of like the power that 198 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:46.080 you get from hiring an same and having an expert on your side really attached 199 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:52.799 with the like authority, credibility and brand profiles itself. So that's the angle 200 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.840 that will take for facebook, instagram, etc. I love the subject matter 201 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:58.840 expert side of things. Can we talk about that a little bit more on 202 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.039 how that will play in like a facebook side of things? Like what is 203 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:05.799 that interaction look like more of like in the community? Is it something you 204 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:11.440 create events around? What's the idea? Yeah, so we're super, super 205 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:13.879 lucky and very glad to be on boarding a new member. She's actually in 206 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.720 a set on our content team. She spent the last ten plus years actually 207 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.559 in the field, and the last three years of that specifically as a center 208 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.799 director, which is perfect. That's the exact persona that we also need to 209 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.919 like really get like closer with embody understand way better, and thankfully she is 210 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.159 that. So she's going to be definitely like an internal evangelist for us so 211 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.960 that we understand better who we're talking to, how to communicate things, etc. 212 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.879 But then also we'll have a huge outward facing play for us as well. 213 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.679 So yes, it will come in the form of weekly live offense that 214 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.320 will, of course, be repurpose, redistributed etc. In shorter content snippets 215 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:58.440 across social but specifically like exclusive content for our community. Of course she will 216 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:03.440 play a much more active moderator role there as well, because we have so 217 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.720 many people that ask very lovely, brilliant questions that like we are marketers, 218 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.559 we're not yet ready to like provide actual value. Nor do we have the 219 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.639 credibility individually for me to go in and be like, Oh, yeah, 220 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.480 this is what you should do at your center, like who am I? 221 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.080 But if she responds that way, she has all of that credibility built up 222 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:26.919 from her years of experience in the field to be able to provide real value 223 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.399 and that helps shine bright whell and such a better light than a marketer responding 224 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.759 to somebody's pain point. So, yeah, she'll become a much more active 225 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:39.200 moderator in the community. Will definitely be doing some first party like original sourced 226 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.360 content weekly through like a live event style that will redistribute and published, as 227 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.440 well podcasting things of that nature will all be like coming to light. We're 228 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.279 in the middle of like that sprint of planning right now, which is super 229 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:54.720 exciting. So is the way you're thinking about her being on this team as 230 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.559 like a just essentially a thought leader, like that's what her daytoday brain is 231 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.120 set on executing. Yeah, cool, honestly, that's excellent. I love 232 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.399 that and that's such a that's a play that I think many of us should 233 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.759 be thinking about, because we're creating solutions for industries that maybe you know, 234 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.720 especially as markers, we don't really know their day today. We might have 235 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:22.519 customer knowledge because of conversations we're having, but you talk man a completely different 236 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.399 angle on how you can add value when you bring someone on your team like 237 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.840 that. So that's gold right there. The other thing I wanted to bring 238 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.080 up in this episode with you and just fig your brain on is I know 239 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.399 in the past that Chili Piper, you guys talked about ditching lead scoring and 240 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:40.919 you took like a crawl, walk run approach to use intent data to essentially 241 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:45.200 activate you know, SDRs. Am I right in assuming you probably walked into 242 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.960 a situation, because we're talking about ten years or twenty years in the in 243 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.679 the past, where mtls ql is still very prevalent? And how how are 244 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:59.039 you thinking about that conversation now? Yes, so you like hard yes to 245 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.799 all the things you've just said. You're absolutely right. Lead Jen, like 246 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.680 this bright will for its existence, has largely been a lead Gen play, 247 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:10.920 and I feel like most other companies that are outside of this Marttech bubble are 248 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.680 also very much in that space, which is probably why, when those leaders 249 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.400 that you've chatted with or like, you need to interview people outside of the 250 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.039 Martech bubble, because it is so, so different. So it's like this 251 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.400 mql hamster will that was happening, like you know, ten years ago. 252 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.119 For me in the MARTECH world, is still very much where we're at today. 253 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:30.400 We have a lead scoring model. We have, you know, an 254 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:36.200 St a prop like a traditional str team. We have an outbound SDR organization. 255 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:41.319 However, she's breaking out in hives as we she says this. I 256 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:45.039 think we are still and I'm like saying this I hope all the bright wheelers 257 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.359 are also going to listen to this'll take a crawl, walk, run approach 258 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.000 to innovation, because we dopers like see even leadership that's here right, that 259 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.720 was here before I was here, to come in and just like literally disrupt 260 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.680 everything already. We're seeing that as well, that like we do need to 261 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.839 make a huge change and how we are running our pipeline and how we're optimizing 262 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.079 our funnel. And so we've just bought Chili Piper, stead it up, 263 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.480 implemented it step one. So that's cool. That will allow us the freedom 264 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.160 and it's like I think that when leaders or whoever come on, you know, 265 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.039 and talk about all the things they're doing and ditchingly scoring, it sounds 266 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:23.880 fancy and like it sounds very like disruptive, but the the practicalness of it 267 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:27.039 is that, like we will also get there at bright will, but our 268 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.640 approach is going to have to be stronger where it's going to have to be 269 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.599 longer. We are a much, much bigger business here than I was at 270 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:41.200 Chili Piper. It's easier and less friction to make drastic changes at small companies 271 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.079 than it is obviously to like redirect a cruise ship. So we're redirecting the 272 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.599 cruise ship. However, full faith that we will do it. Our first 273 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:55.200 step is to implement Chili Piper and start understanding substantially more granular data around our 274 00:18:55.319 --> 00:19:00.319 mql to SQL handoff and conversion rate. That will allow us to get slowly 275 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:06.720 to layers where we can start testing and iterating on better handoff processes. MMM, 276 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:08.480 who knows? Like I can't predict the future. I wish I could. 277 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.400 That wouldn't that'd be so lovely. But what I do know is that 278 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.440 we can test our way into proving out. Do SDRs work in this model 279 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.559 for this business? Maybe they do, and maybe we have to keep them 280 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:25.440 because to like a get into really technical details. Through it it at. 281 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.480 Coming from Martech, we are able to leverage tools like clear bit or Zoompho 282 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.440 form comple Lee that allow us to do so much of our auto enrichment. 283 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.400 That allows us to go from, you know, a ton of fields upon 284 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.720 form submission down to like three, because we know everything about you. Because 285 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.160 marketers are online everywhere, it's easy to find your information, auto enrich, 286 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:47.319 qualify and route you directly to an account. Executive for that Demo. Here 287 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.839 we're talking to center directors. Some of them are running in home centers with 288 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:56.160 four children. They apply with like their childhood Gmail. We can't use clear 289 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.359 bit or Zoom Info to figure out who this person really is. So we 290 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.240 need to know a lot about you and it might not make all sense for 291 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.200 our business to pass every form submission directly to an account executive. But we 292 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.839 can take a blended approach. Some people are more findable. Some people do 293 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:17.440 work for larger centers that are more businessminded, less of an inhome operation. 294 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:21.880 Those people we can find information about them online. We can ask them fewer 295 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:25.960 questions. We can auto qualify them better up front and give them a more 296 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.160 streamlined experience and a fast track to get with an account executive and get a 297 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.240 demo. Others in which, you know, we might need to take a 298 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.799 more traditional approach. Get them on the phone, make sure they even understand 299 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:40.160 what we do and that we can actually help them. Then get them on 300 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.359 like hot pass them over while they're on the phone to an account exex so 301 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:47.000 that it's a more steamless experience, less of a like schedule. Will get 302 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.440 back to you next week whatever, but the playbook. Still to this point 303 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:55.599 two will look different than the like dramatic forward facing playbook that we were able 304 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.680 to stand up a Chili Piper. Yeah, it's the cruise ship. Analogy 305 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.079 is a a good one in this situation too, because you wonder why, 306 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.640 like outside of the bubble, you know we it's like we make fun of 307 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.920 the MQLS ql conversation in the bubble, but then's like, okay, but 308 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.319 if you were, if you had adopted this structure and then you're in a 309 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.039 massive company, you not going to like you need a lot of advocates, 310 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.640 you need a lot of time and you're turning this thing and even figuring out 311 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:27.799 the crawl, walk run approach when something essentially feels like it's not completely broken, 312 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.599 like why would you change the whole thing? You have to have the 313 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:36.160 right voices in the room to even make that a compelling conversation. So I 314 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.759 love that you're even clarifying that because while you could be very passionate on this 315 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.440 topic, it's still something where now you put you're put in a different environment 316 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.759 and you go, okay, like I wouldn't do it this way. But 317 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:51.559 I also see some of why it ticks the way it ticks and then, 318 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.160 okay, let's modify with a crawl, walk, run approach. It's great. 319 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:56.759 Okay, yeah, I think so too. I think so too. 320 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.160 Go ahead, I'll let you. I'll let you grow one more at you, 321 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:07.359 which is the gated, verse ungated conversation. How different is content for 322 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.839 you guys, and like, what kind of content is being created? You 323 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.640 have the community, but, like, are you playing heavy into content? 324 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:21.039 And then, if so, what's the thought around? Gated on gated? 325 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.240 That's a good okay, you just like thrown out the the tea today. 326 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.279 Okay, here's the deal. When I join right. Well, we were, 327 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.559 and I guess technically still are, but it's hard to admit out loud 328 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.759 heavy in the gated content game, heavy, heavy, and gay content game, 329 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.319 like almost everything, is gated. However, I have started circulating conversations 330 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:47.400 early on about, like what is our what are our thought process behind the 331 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.200 why? Like seven years ago when bright will was founded and a lot of 332 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:56.920 these resources that we were putting out really weren't widely available online. And the 333 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.200 one of the luxuries, I guess, of moving to this specific Ed Tech 334 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:06.720 space is that it is not overly saturated. So there are like Tenzero Martech 335 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.519 solutions. These days, there are like ten of us, you know, 336 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:15.039 in our pool of like competitiveness. So it's like you're going from like tenzero 337 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:22.960 competitors were like your your value is truly not more valuable than your neighbors in 338 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.799 the MARTECH world. So you had like we had to start on gating to 339 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.559 differentiate here. Not that it's like more or less valuable, but there just 340 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.640 aren't that many of us that are putting out this content. So that's why 341 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:40.240 I think we've been able to get away with this gated process for so long. 342 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:45.240 However, we're having a lot of healthy conversations internally about facilitating looking at 343 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.319 things differently, I still feel like we could be on the edge of truly 344 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:56.640 providing leadership at like thought, leadership at scale, ungated, no friction. 345 00:23:56.119 --> 00:24:03.319 This audience would react so well to less friction in their life that I still 346 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.440 feel like it would propel us forward. However, in the same vein that 347 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.480 we're trying to make motion on this mql to SQL conversation, this is kind 348 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:18.000 of trailing all of those like leading indicators right like we have gated content because 349 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.720 we were held to mql goals as a marketing team. We are now held 350 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.359 to s ql goals as a marketing team, which is great, because so 351 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.440 is our SDR organization. So our SDR ORG sits with sales. They don't 352 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.160 sit with us, but we were very disconnected when I first got here. 353 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.279 marketings marching towards and dwells, sales is marching towards S qls. I say 354 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:42.079 all this to say that now that marketing and sales are actually aligned with our 355 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.559 goals, it allows us to have these conversations around like wait, we were 356 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.599 actually only gating the content, though, so that we could help score it 357 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:56.240 up to an Mql, because number we could say we've met our MQL goal. 358 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.519 Even if the sales team, even if they're not buying ready, we're 359 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.319 we were still handing them over to the sales team to be like yeah, 360 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.319 we medicating your shut. Nope, Prestre, you need to meet for right. 361 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.359 And so then when we're starting to see like our mql to s ql 362 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.920 conversion rates really start shifting, that's allowing us to have these conversations with ourselves, 363 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.960 with our teams and with leadership to be like okay, like we are 364 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.960 gaining content for this purpose, but now that mqls are not our North Star. 365 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.480 How could we actually operationalize this better for ourselves? Because, like, 366 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.640 it's obviously more work to go through and date it, build a dedicated landing 367 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.119 page, build follow up page, build the nurtures, build the automation, 368 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.960 all the things with lead scoring. Like that's more work for us, but 369 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.119 it's also so much friction and such a weird experience for our users. Like 370 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.759 how can we actually architect this so much better? So I feel like, 371 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:56.359 though, you have to have the conversations first around actual alignment as a team, 372 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.559 and you really need to all be there, like us, the sales 373 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.240 team, are ops team, and then our elt all need to be like 374 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.759 inlock step that, like, yes, marketing should be held to s qls. 375 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.440 Then you can start having these like down funnel conversations around like how can 376 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.559 we better leverage lead scoring? Does it intent even? Is that even a 377 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:19.599 thing here? Right? These buyers aren't on GTWO. You can just buy 378 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:22.640 vindtwo. Intent data not a thing, right? So it's like does that 379 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.920 even that conversation make sense for this playbook for bright? Will probably not. 380 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.799 Can we envisional world in which intent looks different, yes or no? Does 381 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.440 that matter in the lead scoring model. How can we look at historical data? 382 00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.359 The news is we have seven years of historical data around lead scoring. 383 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:42.319 Can we start looking into that and unpacking it and understanding do certain behavior types 384 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:48.640 actually ladder up to buying ready and qels great, like we could actually keep 385 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.640 that. That could be really solid versus all these other things we've probably just 386 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.079 been doing for years because we've been doing them. Cool, let's DPRIO that 387 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.480 and figure out all these other opportunities we could be using natural racist dead right. 388 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.680 So those are the types of like first principles. Yeah, it's all 389 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.319 about first principles, right. You need to come in with this mindset of 390 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.039 like I'm naturally disruptive, just like my personal character is very disruptive. So 391 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.960 I'm like I love disrupting things, breaking them apart, figuring out why, 392 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.799 but really coming in with like this mindset of like, okay, I think 393 00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.880 I know what I know, but I know what I know from Martech. 394 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.480 What can I take from that and really apply here? That's going to move 395 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.200 the needle. Some of it is going to be trash right, some of 396 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:30.759 it I'm just going to be like cool, that was great at Chili Piper, 397 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.680 but it's not going to work here, and other bits of it, 398 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.160 like standing up a better solution for our handoff process when we are such a 399 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:42.400 velocity game in our processing thousands and thousands of contact requests, is actually going 400 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:48.119 to be a huge lever for us that we haven't had before. So wins 401 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:49.720 and losses across the board. But I think it's all learning game and what's 402 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.920 so fascinating is like I felt like I was, you know, done learning 403 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.119 really when I was at Chili Pepper. I was like I feel good, 404 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.039 like everything felt easy right. It was like we were in the in the 405 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.119 groove, and like that was really working for our brand and is still working 406 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.519 for their brand today. And then coming here, it's like Ground Zero, 407 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.599 right, you're starting over, like there's so much here that I don't know, 408 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:15.240 which is so fascinating and really exciting. I love that being a learner 409 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.799 in marketing, constantly having something to learn, is so fantastic. And no 410 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:22.039 matter what kind of bubble you live in, you'll always hit a point where 411 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:25.799 you feel like you're not necessarily hitting a ceiling, but like, okay, 412 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.880 I'm in such a comfortable place, and then you go somewhere else you're like 413 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.960 Oh, it's not like I knew everything, it's just that I knew that 414 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:37.039 space, the interesting part around content and Kaylee, I wonder this will be 415 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.839 my last question before we wrap it. But going back to bringing on a 416 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:48.880 subject matter expert and then thinking of content strategy moving forward, that person obviously 417 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:53.359 can be valuable in your community that's thriving, but also as an external voice 418 00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:57.680 and probably someone that is part of your content strategy. So is that part 419 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.400 of your move on where you can test some things that are ungated as by 420 00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:06.799 having this person exactly exactly, and she is our lover, to like really 421 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:12.880 try and move forward and start providing like firsthand, original sourced content for us, 422 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.880 which is something we've never had before. Right. Like we've run webinars 423 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.079 for a long time, but it's been a marketer that's running a Webinar. 424 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:26.480 We have great registration and even insane attendance for these webinars. So even these 425 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.440 people are extremely busy and overworked and all the things, but they still find 426 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.680 an hour a week out of their time to come and join us live for 427 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.720 a Webinar. Think about all the people we could actually get to if it's 428 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:40.200 on demand, which on demand like undated, like through a podcast, through 429 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.039 these things where people can, you know, listen while they're commuting in the 430 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.599 morning to work or whatever like. Those are all very untapped channels for us 431 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.960 that, now that we are out of this like mqlmql world, we can 432 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.880 actually facilitate the opportunity to stand up better go to market programming, really leveraging 433 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.119 her and her insights to do it. Man, if I have a main 434 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:06.079 takeaway from our conversation, I think it's going back to probably the very beginning, 435 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.000 but customer first, strategy second, because that informs what we're talking about 436 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.599 when we're talking about this subject matter. Expert. It informs what you're talking 437 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:18.079 about with all the ways you're thinking about these just interesting marketing conversations. We 438 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.799 can have in arguments, we can sometimes have in our in our mind or 439 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:26.440 with other people. so that's a fantastic takeaway. Do you want to leave 440 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.920 us as a marketing audience with anything else as we wrap up today, knowing 441 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.279 we covered kind of the gamut? We did cover the gamut, but I 442 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.240 feel like it was such a good conversation as a marketing audience. Honestly, 443 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.680 though, it's like this right this world, were about to enter into with 444 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.079 like a lot of uncertainties. Is a good time for you to pull up 445 00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.720 as a marketer and make sure that, like, are you jazzed and pumped 446 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.799 about whatever you're doing today currently? Are there things where you're like man, 447 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.960 we have been doing this for years. Why are we doing this? Like 448 00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.160 now is your time before like, look, I am no predictor of the 449 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.359 future. I've already said that, but like we're entering into a time that's 450 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.079 like got a lot of unknown so, like, if there's something about either 451 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.960 like your current gag at large, like question that for sure now. But 452 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.000 if you love the place you're at but are like stagnant or stale and the 453 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.799 things you're doing, like use this time as an opportunity to take a step 454 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.559 back and be like wow, okay, starts like a good start. Stop, 455 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.880 continue. I think is really powerful, like quarterly, if not more 456 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.759 often than that, to be like okay, what should we do? Like 457 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.480 we're behind our play. Our competitors are doing this, that and the other. 458 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.400 Like what should we start doing? What are the things we've been doing? 459 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.559 Because their status quo, like we should question that, like maybe we 460 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:36.000 should stop them. And then, like what are all the things that we 461 00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.920 should really continue that we're crushing it at and maybe even do more of right. 462 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:41.960 I think this is like a it's such a good opportunity. Marketing S 463 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.359 fast right. Marketing S fast paced, regardless of if you're in the MARKTECH 464 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.319 bubble or not in the MARTECH bubble, and I think that really giving yourself 465 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:53.359 some grace to take a step back and be like okay, like celebrate the 466 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.680 winds, question the things you're not doing great and then continue, you know, 467 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.920 to continue to iterate and improve and like there's no better time to do 468 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:05.039 that than now. Love it. You can connect with Kaylee over on facebook 469 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.680 and I'm just kidding. Oh, what's the best way for people too? 470 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:12.440 I had to what's the best way for people to connect with you and and 471 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.680 for people that want to check out bright wheel? Tell us how we can 472 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.119 do that. Yeah, yeah, my bright wheelcom is the best place to 473 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:21.400 check out bright wheel. We're doing lots of cool things over there on the 474 00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.839 website and obviously can you can come along the journey if you're in the EC 475 00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:28.359 space or maybe have a Kiddo in the easy space. Whatever. We'd love 476 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.799 to have you and myself. Yeah, although I am spending more of my 477 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.400 days on facebook. In my personal life, I'm still on Linkedin, so 478 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:37.400 find me there. Love it. Thank you for stop a by B to 479 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.400 be growth. It was a great conversation, Kayley, so great. Thank 480 00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:45.119 you so much for having me. Want to say thanks to all of our 481 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.960 listeners. Appreciate you sticking with this show and hope that you find these conversations 482 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:54.079 extremely insightful. We want to help fuel your innovation. So if you haven't 483 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:58.759 followed the show yet on whatever podcast platform you're listening on, go ahead and 484 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.279 do that so you never miss one of these conversations, and also you can 485 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:05.960 connect with me over on Linkedin. Just search benjy block, talking about marketing, 486 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.359 business in life over there. Love having conversations with our listeners, and 487 00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:13.000 so if you're free to reach out anytime, we'll be back real soon with 488 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:28.680 another episode. Keep doing work that matters. If you enjoyed a day show, 489 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.480 hit subscribe for more marketing goodness, and if you really enjoyed the day 490 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:36.319 show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're 491 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:39.640 listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, 492 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:43.839 share the love by texting you to a friend who would find it insightful. 493 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.240 Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing