Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth.
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All right, welcome to the journey
here on bTB Growth, where we're documenting
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our journey of turning this show into
every BBB marketers favorite show and hopefully showing
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you how you can do the same. So, Dan, today we are
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talking about should you build a media
company or buy a media company? We've
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been talking about this offline a lot. There's a lot of stories about companies
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that have acquired media companies. Everybody
talks about HubSpot acquiring the Hustle. I
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think we hear a lot about Outreach
acquiring sales Hacker. But you've got Penn
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National Gaming that million dollars buying Barstool
Sports. Yet Stripe bought indie Hackers.
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You guys app here buying maker Pad, Digital Ocean acquired Scotch dot Io.
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So it's happening. These massive companies
are just straight up acquiring audiences, like,
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screw this whole, like spending years
to build our own media company,
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We're just gonna go buy it.
What do you think whenever you hear this
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list of companies that are just going
out and acquiring audience, I'm glad you
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were recited like the lists, and
there's even more than that, right,
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because there's like Amazon bought the Washington
Post, Like these things are happening,
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and they've kind of happened before.
It's not like acquiring media properties is new,
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like Disney acquired ABC like thirty years
ago, Like okay, but it's
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new for this community, especially since
we're we tend to speak to all B
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two B companies, but especially a
lot of tech companies are listening to this,
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like this is kind of new to
this space, and it's happening way
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more than people think. So I
tell people this whole time, like media
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companies the future, and they're like, oh, okay, so HubSpot acquired
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the Hustle, Like where else is
this happening. It's happening a lot,
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Like dozens of companies are making this
and this is still like a drop in
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the bucket compared to like all the
smaller acquisitions. These are just the big
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names acquiring other big names. List
right, because I think what we're starting
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to see is a fundamental change in
content marketing. In fact, I like
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this quote farm dar Mesh from HubSpot
right, who said, modern media companies
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have a software company embedded inside next
gen software companies will have a media company
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embedded inside, which is says a
lot to me, and then he went
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and did it. HubSpot is like
like the freaking poster child of content marketing.
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Like they had a lot of attention. They rank for every freaking marketing
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term there is, right. They
have, They've built courses, they've dropped
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books, they have their own they
have multiple podcasts, they have YouTube channels.
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They're doing all the content marketing.
Yet something was missing, something massive,
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And it's called an audience right,
because people were checking in on all
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those things and kind of being like, oh, that was good things,
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Oh that was good things. But
they didn't have their like undivided attention that
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when they dropped something, people are
like, oh, when's the next one
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coming, like the Hustle did,
which I was. I was reading the
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Huspital for a while. I really
liked that newsletter, and then eventually I
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got burned out and just stopped.
But I really liked it. Every time
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it dropped. It had a different
affinity. I listened to the Hustle show,
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their their podcast, the Hustle's Daily
Podcast. I listened to it probably
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three days a week. Maybe it's
nice, little bite size I mean,
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what helps us to with the podcast
network is fascinating. So when we talk
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about this though, Dan, you
know, obviously these are massive behemoth companies
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buying other really big media companies,
and they're doing that for a reason,
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right, they have the financials to
actually go and do it. But when
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do you think it's smarter to try
to buy I mean, maybe you don't
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have to go buy maker Pad like
Zappier did, but you know, we're
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obviously trying to build B two B
growth. What keeps us from going,
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Hey, why don't we just try
to go secure financing to go by marketing
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profts or you know, buy exit
five, Like, how do you think
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about that? As we have really
honed in on our own strategy to like
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we're gonna build BOB growth as opposed
to trying to buy something. I mean,
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one of it just becomes constraints.
And it's just when you're when you're
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taking on a lot of debt to
do it, if you're securing financing or
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your wrench, if you're raising venture
capital for it. Right, it's there
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is massive constraints on how you can
run your company at that point because it's
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well known, like the constraints of
of giving away equity brings to your company.
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In a bootstrap situation, it makes
all the sense. But even then
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sometimes it makes more sense to even
build it, even if you do have
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the cash, because you want to
pump that cash into things like and building
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building your product, and there's just
opportunity costs across the business. The other
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advantage you have in building it is
that you just understand your customers better in
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the process. If you buy it, well, hopefully you fired a bunch
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of people that understand your customers better
than you do. But if you build
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it, it's because you know you
have to go through the kind of like
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the painful process of actually knowing what
your customers want and need and think about
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from a content standpoint, which gives
you a broader scope than just your tiny
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little niche and positioning on your product. You actually have to understand the more
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holistic picture and place your buyers are
playing. Actually feel so grateful that we
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talk that this podcast that we're talking
about on now isn't the BBB podcasting show,
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it's the B two B Growth Show, and therefore we talk about all
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things that BBB marketers are interested in, so we have a much better understanding
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of what B two B marketers care
about because we're producing the content, we're
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having conversations with them, We're talking
to them on LinkedIn, trying to get
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the ideas that resonate with them.
So we have a much better understanding of
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our buyer, which then makes it
easier to actually build a product around the
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buyer rather than building it in the
shop and then saying here it is right.
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So there's a massive advantage and the
intimacy you gain with your customer that
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way. So that's one major reason
why you would want to build it rather
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than just buying it out right buying
it. One thing that I've observed just
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in my own as I assess what
I have affinity toward. You know,
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I listened to the Hustle Daily Show
three or four days a week. When
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I listen to that show, I
don't think I necessarily I mean, they
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talk about HubSpot because Hubspots position is
like a sponsor of the show, even
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though they own it. I don't
know that I necessarily like feel affinity toward
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HubSpot. I look at HubSpot like, oh, that was really smart what
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they did, Like they took a
format, they took host talent, they
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took an ingredient that's already working.
But I questioned, I'm like, man,
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do I feel affinity toward HubSpot or
does it just feel like they're a
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sponsor of this show when it would
have been cheaper for them to just buy
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up a bunch of ad slots on
this show as opposed to acquiring the whole
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thing. But when I think about
what you do when you acquire a media
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company, you're bringing that talent in
house so that now you're like starting to
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shape your culture around. Now we're
we're going to start thinking like a media
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company, And we just accelerated that
process by probably three or four or five
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years by going and bringing one that's
already figured this stuff out in so that
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it can infuse and and like start
to shape our culture to be a culture
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of folks that know how to do
this. So I'm really interested to see
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how the next three or five years
play out for HubSpot, because I think
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going out and acquiring a media company
that got bringing it in the long term
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benefit is, like I mean,
the short term benefit is obviously the the
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immediate audience of the shows that the
media properties that already existed, You now
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own that immediate audience. But I
think there's a lot of power in in
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the talent that you bring in so
that it can shape your ability to actually
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replicate what they did to get successful. And now you know how to do
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that. It's it's in your DNA
as an organization, and it doesn't happen
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instantly. And I don't think we've
you know, yea, with HubSpot,
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but I think they're getting there.
I think there's another point to be made
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to around buying a media company and
that you can actually acquire a business model
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that's already working. Like imagine having
a whole content marketing arm that pays for
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itself. Right, So when they
bought the Hustle, yes, they forked
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over you know, tens of millions
of dollars for it, but the Hustle
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is profitable yea. So now they
just bought this marketing engine that's a self
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contained unit that they get essentially free
marketing from imperpetuity. Right, this thing
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continues to advertise for it, and
they don't have to pay for it again
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because they have other sponsors and other
advertising going into it. So that kind
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of makes a big difference. You
just bought a little marketing machine and it's
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a one time fee, one time
fee for unlimited marketing. Fantastic, It's
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kind of nice. Yeah, I
do love the I mean, that's that's
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something again we've been talking about a
lot offline. Is this idea of you
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know that this is the direction we're
going and sweet fish, I mean,
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we want to eventually be able to
help companies not just build branded shows,
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but we want to help them like
put a media asset into their business that
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has independent value, independent of their
company, and something that pays for itself
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over a four to thirty six months
window, like it pay us to build
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this media property for you, and
we know that over amount of time this
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thing is is going to end up
paying for itself and then some so it
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becomes a profit center instead of a
cost center. And that's the whole I
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mean, Joe Politzy has been talking
about that with his book Killing Marketing,
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and this idea that your marketing can
actually be self sustaining is fascinating to me.
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But that's an element of like the
building a media company conversation that I
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don't I'm not hearing a lot of
people talking about it that way, but
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it's certainly a problem that we're trying
to figure out and trying to solve B
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two B growth will be right back. There are a lot of questions on
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marketers minds right now, and analyzing
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job in itself. Can an a
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notes right now. But that's an
element of like the building a media company
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conversation that I don't I'm not hearing
a lot of people talking about it that
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way, but it's certainly a problem
that we're trying to figure out and trying
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to solve. Yep, And when
you talk about building a media company,
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and this is what we're hitting with
B two B growth is that it's just
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because you're building it doesn't mean it's
free. No, it kind of requires
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investment in staffing or hiring an agency
to help you produce it. Either way,
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it's gonna cost you money. But
sometimes it's like, do you have
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enough money to be able to pay
tens of millions of dollars for it?
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Maybe? Maybe not. But if
you don't, then are you willing to
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invest forty k into it a month
in order to build it to that point
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and grow with it organically? It's
take it's a little bit of a longer
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road. But again, like I
said before, there's some advantages of doing
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it yourself and the learnings you get
in doing it. And of course there's
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lots of companies like like sweet Fish, but other companies like consultants that have
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done it before, so you can
you can go and acquire essentially talent yourself
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and start building it from the ground
maybe somebody who's done it before, right
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if you wanted to do it in
house. So there's a couple different ways
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to go about it. Like I
even heard that the Record, you know,
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just when hired some journalists that knew
what they were doing and just started
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putting together the Recorded Future. No, I think it it's um the Recorded
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Future, put together the record right, which is the media property, and
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just have a handful of journalists writing
stories that matter to cybersecurity, and it's
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become a really niche but favorite website
news site for cybersecurity professionals. So I
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think a lot of people are going
to start doing this, And there's even
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a whole movement around before you even
launch a product, you build an audience
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first, right, I mean this
is becoming a more well known play across
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famous influencers like The Rock and Mr
Beast and stuff. Build the audience first,
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and then you can launch whatever products
you want. So there's an audience
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first movement taking place amongst creators and
soon you're gonna that's gonna eventually make its
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way over into B two b um
where these creators are just going to launch
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companies to their massive audiences. Shoot, Ran Fishkin did already was Spark Carrow.
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They don't have a marketing budget.
They just use marked Rand Fishkin's existing
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audience and uh fame essentially to build
that company. When they hired an influencer
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in the marketing space, Amanda not
at Dad, I think, who was
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already very influential with Marketer, and
so they brought her on as the marketing
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leader. So they have some symblance
of a working budget. I don't know
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if she's a team of one or
if she's got a little team, but
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you know they're they're a small but
mighty I mean they're punching way about their
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way you think about base Camp.
Base Camp doesn't get talked about a lot
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in this in this way, but
they're I mean, the blog posts that
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they're that they are founders, I
mean made them famous. I've actually got
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a call with their CEO later this
afternoon, and I'm really excited about they
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came inbound and I'm excited to like, I don't know what they built from
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a from attention amassing machine. I
mean, they're like a fifty person company
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and millions of people know about base
camp yep. And it's funny. I've
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never read their blog posts, but
I have because I've read their books,
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which are literally just their blog post
readpackaged into a book. Um, and
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it was freaking amazing, amazing.
They're amazing books that they've written. More
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than one now they've read both of
them. So this is becoming a thing,
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and I want to talk about more
about how we're doing it, because
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this is the journey we talked about
behind the scenes and how we're doing this.
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We're lucky, I guess we're kind
of a rare case where an agency
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who actually has done what we proclaim
our customers should do with bTB growth.
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We actually have this show, we
actually have an audience, so we're not
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starting from scratch, which is kind
of nice. We're branching off into building
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something bigger. But we want to
take it from more than just this podcast
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and actually make it into a full
robust media property. But obviously it's very
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podcast focused on the in the beginning, and that's how we're planning on doing
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this now. Luckily, like there's
enough downloads happening to this show that we
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can even begin monetizing it and actually
using some of that revenue support other initiatives.
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But we want to launch into more
focused social media, a newsletter soon
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and blogs, lots of blogs that
are ranking for s c O in a
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way that actually isn't commodity content,
is actually useful, helpful expertise, so
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that it becomes a more robust media
property in and of itself. What do
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you think, James, when you
as we're building this proper pretty what are
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the things that get you the most
excited about building turning BDB growth from just
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a one one channel show into multiple
shows? And what are some things that
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like you're like thinking of you need
to be careful of as you as we
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grow this property. Man, That's
that's a great question. I think we've
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got to be careful about getting stale. I was just talking to somebody last
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night about the importance of continually like, you know, adding new or somebody
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my my friend called this content franchises
yesterday in a conversation. You're constantly like
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coming, like, what what's a
new content franchise or a new series or
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a new like I think variability matters
a lot when it comes to affinity building.
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And you know, you look at
what drift Bit did whenever they were
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you know, dominating the B two
B marketing conversation. Uh, and they
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were doing these like marketing splashes every
month. I've heard Dave Gearhard talk about
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this and how he was intentional to
create these these splashes, And I think
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I don't want us to just like
kind of Okay, we've figured out what
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our three content franchises are. With
Bob Growth, we kind of get in
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this rot and we don't continue to
innovate, We don't continue to to think
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creatively about how we can make a
splash for the show in the minds of
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our buyers. And so that's that's
one thing that I think we've really got
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to be careful of of avoiding.
Um, what was your other question?
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Dam what are you that is what
you're looking forward to? But what are
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you looking forward to? Like the
things that get you excited about doing it
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this way? I think it's just
the opportunity to really control the narrative.
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And when you own the audience,
you get to control the narrative. And
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so as B two B Growth grows
and we start to have more and more
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attention than you know, our story
of of the importance of building affinity,
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the importance of obliterating commodity content from
your marketing strategy becomes the centerpiece of conversation
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and becomes what our buyers are talking
about in their boardrooms and talking about on
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their you know, on their all
hands. And I think that's such a
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powerful place to be. Like when
when you get to control the narrative of
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an industry, or at least shape
maybe not control controls, probably a little
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bit too aggressive war, but you
get to shape what people are talking about.
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I've seen it. I mean I'm
seeing it literally happened with Chris Walker,
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like he is. He is shaping
the narrative and B two B marketing
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right now because he's he's played this
playbook and he's got really really good insights.
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So I love so much about this. It's like we look in two
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or three years at Bob growth and
and kind of where we've where we've gone.
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It's did we have quality insights?
Did we truly add value to the
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market in the content that we're sharing? And if we didn't, that's gonna
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show up. It's gonna be pretty
painstaking obvious, like, hey, we
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we are not anywhere close to where
we thought we'd be, and so we've
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got to reassess. And so I
think going back to like mistakes where things
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that we should avoid. I think
we've constantly got to be critiquing ourselves and
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asking ourselves after we record episodes like
this, like hey, where did that
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miss? Hey we rambled a little
bit here, We could have probably been
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a little bit tie her in our
prep. Man, this episode felt a
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little flat. We didn't you know, we just when we were recording early
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today, I was like, man, that it just didn't feel like there
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was a lot of energy there.
Tweaking the way we're doing intros and outros
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and and trying to inject more personality
into it and just constantly evolving. I
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mean, that's that's the game.
That's why I love business. It's just
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this constant evolution. It feels like
every week we're doing something in the business
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and I'm slapping myself in the head, going, how the hell is it
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taking a seven years to figure this
out? But that's I've said that to
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myself so many times. At this
point, it's like it's the evolution of
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the game. Like you learn,
you get better, you keep pushing forward,
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and and that's so much of the
joy of this is in that,
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and I don't ever want to lose
that. One of my favorite parts about
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actually building a media company is that
there's like never an end to like things
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that you need to try, But
in the media company you can try,
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and gosh, dang it, if
the blog post doesn't hit, it doesn't
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hit, that's okay. Tomorrow is
a new day, let's post a new
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block. You know, it's kind
of like if it doesn't slap on LinkedIn,
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that's okay, it's gone. It's
not even gonna be seen by a
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lot of people, like they didn't
make it. That's okay. You just
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keep trying new stuff, and then
of course you start to get some attention
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on things and you double down on
that and ride that wave. You know,
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if you have something that works really
well, you write it for the
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season as long as you can,
and then it starts to lose momentum.
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But you have to find that.
It's kind of like writing waves. I
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like that analogy. All the times
you always have to be finding the next
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rate wave to ride. But in
immediate company, you kind of get a
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lot of that bats to test it
in your social and your emails and then
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your podcast shows, in your YouTube
videos. If you're going in that route.
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By doing it ourselves, we get
to ride the waves with our customers,
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and like I said in the beginning, you build that intimacy because you're
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you're in the trenches with them trying
to figure out what's what's working, what's
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not. Usually creators are much better
at this. The solo creators, But
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I think businesses can be just as
good at it. You know, if
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you have a couple of really good
people, like two three four people in
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the company that are kind of trying
to figure this out all the time and
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are experimenting a lot, just like
solo creators do, especially on the B
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two B two C side, right
like the Mr beasts that are always kind
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of experimenting, obsessed with what's what's
going to hit, what's going to work,
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what's going to capture and retain people's
attention. So that's what I'm honestly
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so excited about. Dan with you
saying that makes me think about how we've
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you know, the construction of our
marketing team. You know, We've got
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Benji here, he's you know,
producing this series in the background. But
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we've got Emily Brady who's on maternity
leave right now, but she gets back
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in December. She's gonna be focused
on her newsletter and on social Emily thinks
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like a creator. Benji thinks like
a creator. You think like a creator.
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I am thinking more and more like
a creator, and I think creating
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that culture of kind of creator thinking
in our marketing team is what actually is
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gonna propel us into building a media
company and building a legitimate media property and
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B TWOB growth that, regardless of
what happens with sweet Fish, GDP growth
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is going to have independent value of
sweet Fish in a few years because of
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the effort, the way we've staffed
it, the way we're the way we're
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approached building it. We're taking the
marketing out of our content and we're just
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trying to be as helpful as we
possibly can to B B marketers. Yep.
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And that's the way that's their approach
we're taking is hiring people to have
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more of a creator bent that understand
marketing UM so we can have really understand
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what we're talking about when it comes
to B two B marketing, right,
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And of course there's different routes.
Some people are just scooping up the people
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that already have audiences and slapping their
logo on their T shirts because they're paying
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them a huge salary, right like
Stream is with a lot of um dev's
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developers. Right, they're hiring people
who have YouTube audience, TikTok audience,
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blog audience and just making them part
of the Stream team, and then they
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marketing is funding their salaries it's a
great mode. That's how they're doing it.
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So there's so many ways to build
the audience. This is just the
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way that we're doing it here in
BDB Growth by building it all around the
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BBB Growth Show dot Com with multiple
channels reaching out there. So I'm excited
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to see where this goes. And
hopefully this has been in a helpful episode
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As we're talking about how others are
doing it a firing some are building it
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differently than us. This is how
we're building it internally by doing these kinds
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of episodes. Hopefully it's giving you
some insight into how we're thinking about this
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and processing it. Yeah. Alright, So so that's it for today's episode
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of the Journey. Join us next
week we're gonna be talking about a very
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provocative topic in gating content. Dan's
got some hot takes on gating content.
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We're gonna be We're gonna be talking
about that next week. Remember, there
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are a lot of ways to win. Commodity content is the enemy, focus
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on affinity over awareness. You can
find all things BDB Growth at GDP Growth
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00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.640
Show dot Com. Make sure to
connect with us on LinkedIn's Dan Sanchez,
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myself, James Carberry, We're out. B two B Growth is brought to
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you by the team at sweet Fish
Media. Here at sweet Fish, we
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produce podcasts for some of the most
innovative brands in the world, and we
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00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.880
help them turn those podcasts into micro
videos, LinkedIn content, blog posts,
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00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.480
and more. We're on a mission
to produce every leader's favorite show. Want
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00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:23.519
more information, visit sweet Fish media
dot com.