Add Friction to Your Marketing, with Jacob Azia

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.239 Hello and welcome in to be tob growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 3 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:25.719 and today I am joined by Jacob a Zea. He is a consultant 4 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:30.440 and adviser for early stage tech companies. Jacob, it's fun to have you 5 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:33.600 on the show man. Thanks for having me, Benjie. Great to be 6 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:38.439 here with you and I love your role as a consultant and advisor, because 7 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:43.399 here on be to be growth we're always talking to marketing leaders, right and 8 00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:46.840 they're sort of in the trenches of their company, but you're seeing some like 9 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:51.079 trends, things that you're dealing with across company lines, and I think that 10 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:55.479 could be a fascinating conversation today. Jacob, tell me some of what you're 11 00:00:55.479 --> 00:01:00.119 seeing. Man. What are some common issues that you see companies bumping into 12 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:04.599 and maybe having recurringly? Yeah, so I'm working with either marking leaders or 13 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:11.680 or CEOS themselves. What are the trends I've been seeing recently that I feel 14 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:18.560 is worth mentioning? Is this strategy to really optimize the funnel as much as 15 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:23.920 possible to increase conversion rates. So, for example, one of the clients 16 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.599 that I'm working with are. They are. You know, they've switched their 17 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:32.760 linkedin ads from trying to optimize for website conversions to leagen forms because on there 18 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:37.040 and they saw that, you know, they would get a higher conversion rate 19 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.760 on the person filling out a form if it was a Leegen form as opposed 20 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:45.640 to website. And that's true and the data supports that. However, when 21 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.840 you look down funnel at actual customer acquisition, you can see that the legend 22 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:56.000 form isn't really even though you're getting a higher conversion rate leading to more customers. 23 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.920 And one of the reasons I think we're seeing that is because when you 24 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.840 make it that easy to the engage with the company, to convert via a 25 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.599 legion form, which is really filling out one field after seeing one add you're 26 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:15.680 not really giving the user really any motivation or intent to actually use and eventually 27 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:23.240 purchase those services, and that's it's a bit counterintuitive, but you really want 28 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:28.199 to as a company, think about how do we educate the the users are 29 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.199 future customers, and so that you add a little bit of friction to the 30 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:36.800 process, because ultimately that's the people that then convert are going to be way 31 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.840 more high intent and actually want to do business with you. Yeah, who 32 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:44.560 thought you would hear on B tob growth today that we should add some friction 33 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:49.599 back into the process? But isn't it true that, like top of funnel, 34 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.479 you can have as many emails or whatever, I mean, fill out 35 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:55.039 the Legen form, whatever you want. You can get as many of those 36 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.039 and feel real good, pat yourself on the back, but if they're not 37 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:07.240 not converting down funnel and you don't you haven't really done anything to let them 38 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:10.400 explore your brand feel like they really align, then they're not even the leads 39 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:15.280 that you really want. So the MQL, SQL, the data, the 40 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.520 numbers, they're kind of skewed right. So I man, I think that 41 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:23.599 is totally true. How do we go about actually adding the right amount of 42 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.520 friction in, though, Jacob? I think that is the question so many 43 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.520 of us are asking. What do you feel we should be asking ourselves to 44 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:36.199 make sure where we're getting that friction right? That's a great question and and 45 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:38.080 you know, just want to recognize that. Yes, as marketers we are 46 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:42.520 all taught optimize the conversion right, increase that conversion and is as much as 47 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.199 possible, and so if this does sound a bit out of the box, 48 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:51.159 that's that's on purpose. As far as like the right amount of friction goes, 49 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:53.599 you know, if you think, if you think about this from their 50 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:59.599 customer experience right, because that's always important to keep in mind, I think 51 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:05.560 asking their customer, you know, potential customer, to visit your company's website 52 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:11.680 and fill out a form there is not asking too much. If you're acknowledging 53 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.560 that, like anyone you're marketing to, is going to eventually have to come 54 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.079 through your website to talk to you, to reach out and talk to you, 55 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:24.000 then that's that's not really that that hard. You, anyone can just 56 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:28.160 type in an among Google and find find the first result. What that does 57 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:30.759 is it frees you up. So then mark it the way you want to 58 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.720 market on all of on all of your, you know, channels, all 59 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:39.560 of your campaigns, because then you don't have to optimize for this action where 60 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.560 you need to get their email dres so you need to get their phone number 61 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.639 right away so you can actually give them content, give them creative, give 62 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:53.199 them product marketing that that communicates who you are as a company and your value. 63 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:58.079 And then the friction comes in when you they've learned enough about your company 64 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.519 and they're in there, they're ready to enter into like a real buying cycle. 65 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:06.680 They can visit your website and fill a form on your website. Just 66 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.399 make your website, you know, don't make it too hard to find the 67 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:14.319 demoform or the free trial form, but other than that, I think you 68 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.800 know you want people to be coming to your website as opposed to filling out 69 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:23.199 forms on social channels. Why, you think so many struggle with the is 70 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:28.079 it the way we were educated as marketers and just that desire to see the 71 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:33.920 number of mqls rise? What? What's behind the approach that you see so 72 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:38.959 often? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's probably has a 73 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:44.279 couple different sources. One of them is definitely this this notion of the mql. 74 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:47.240 And you know, Oh, because we work in a business where, 75 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.439 you know, sales cycles are a couple weeks to a couple months. We 76 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:58.720 want to make sure we're adjusting performance on a, you know, regular basis 77 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.160 and in order to do that we need metric like mpls to give us a 78 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:06.399 sense of performance. And I think there's some validity to that, but I 79 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:12.959 think it's gotten twisted and become like the North Star leading indicator for a lot 80 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.639 of companies, and it just mqls do not paint enough of a picture for 81 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:23.319 the quality of the lead of the customer, you know, in terms of 82 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:27.040 who they really are and like, are they truly interested or did you get 83 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:30.959 them to take an action that was not indicative of how much they actually are 84 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.560 interested in your products or services? So if you were like blue skying this, 85 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.680 in a sense, we're going like Thirtyzero foot view and we're going, 86 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:46.040 if this was just working optimally in Jacob's mind, like this is how the 87 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.360 process should be, not how it always is, but like right amount of 88 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:56.240 friction. Walk me through like an an example. What's how you're thinking about 89 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.360 this? I would love to hear it kind of walked out practically. Yeah, 90 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:04.120 totally. So, if we're not going to if our goal as a 91 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:08.040 BDB, you know company were from a marking standpoint, is not just to 92 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:12.360 generate as many leads or mqls as possible, then that really frees us up 93 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:16.600 to market to people in a way where we can actually just educate them and 94 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.519 create awareness and and not worried just solely about this like one, you know, 95 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:26.800 metric of sort of conversion rate, and so what that does is it 96 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:31.879 allows the company to, you know, create a series of ads, potentially 97 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:35.160 if we we're talking about paid social, but we could be talking about really 98 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.439 a lot of different channels. But the point is that these, these creatives, 99 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.879 these ads, they talk about the product, they they talk about the 100 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.959 benefits and the value, the features. One of the one of the ways 101 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.680 I like to position this to clients as, like you know, my ideal 102 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:58.480 state of marketing is take your sales playbook or the sale the your first call, 103 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.279 sales deck, where that's like the first thing you're showing someone up, 104 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.120 you know, for a demo. In that in that deck you've got all 105 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:07.000 of the benefits, all the features. It's like, you know, it 106 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.199 has the best content about your product in your company. Take that deck, 107 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:16.199 cut, slice it up, reform at it and create a whole campaign around 108 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.639 just, you know, featuring your product and service externally distributing it across channels. 109 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:24.839 And then when I like to say to you know leaders, you know, 110 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.600 CEOS, sales leaders, is how nice would it be if, when 111 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.840 a lead came in and we're ready to talk to sales, they already knew 112 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.440 everything you were going to say, and they really just needed to talk about 113 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.759 pricing, and that's the cut type of marking that you can do if you're 114 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:43.279 not trying to optimize for conversion rate. HMM. I love this too because, 115 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.360 and obviously you advise for these early stage tech companies, you see this 116 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.399 so much in early stage companies where they're thinking way more about sales and they're 117 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.279 not thinking about marketing yet, right, because they're just trying to show proof 118 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:58.759 of concept. But in this it's really saying, no matter what, you're 119 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.480 going to have that sales day, you might as well do some marketing with 120 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:05.759 that, educate the market, and so there is so many benefits in that. 121 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:11.159 But when you get into the sales mind, you're thinking about the demos 122 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.279 you got to be on, the calls you got to make, and you're 123 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.840 not thinking about how you could utilize social channels or paid social right to actually 124 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:24.759 drive sales in and just a slightly different format, with a mediate with a 125 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:30.360 source you already have. Exactly. These companies are already investing so many resources 126 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:35.720 into these into these salesman sales materials, right, creative resources, content resources, 127 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.440 and they are really saving these resources for the only the few people that 128 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.480 come through their door. And my questions for these, for these companies, 129 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:48.279 these these leaders, is like, why are you saving your best assets for 130 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.879 only such a small amount of people? There's unless there's really proprietary, secret, 131 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.519 confidential knowledge and in these sale materials, which you can also just redact, 132 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:01.000 why not just share that with everyone? And so like, everyone gets 133 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:03.759 the best quality, you know, creative and content that your company has to 134 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.759 offer, and really everyone, sales and marketing both win. And in that 135 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:15.000 scenario, hey be to be gross listeners. We want to hear from you. 136 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:16.440 In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to 137 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:22.159 BEDB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a 138 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.159 chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars, plus. The first fifty participants 139 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.360 will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one 140 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:35.840 more time. That's Bob Growth podcom. Let her be number two. Letter 141 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:43.000 be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the 142 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:50.879 show to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Everyone gets the best 143 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.080 quality, you know, creative and content that your company has to offer, 144 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:58.879 and a really everyone, sales and marketing both win and in that scenario. 145 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:05.679 So someone's listening to this and they're going I want to go back to my 146 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.240 team and start to implement this. An easy first step would be what we 147 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.440 just talked about. Go look at what your sales materials are and how you 148 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.440 can repurpose that. Anything else you would say, Jacob, as far as 149 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.360 like these are questions to be asking your team or things to be thinking through 150 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.279 as far as assets you're creating? Yeah, this is really helpful. So 151 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.279 you know this is something you're considering. I think the first question has to 152 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.919 just be around customers and customer acquisition, because that's really going to help you 153 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.720 sort of make the case to maybe adjust your marketing strategy to be a bit 154 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.159 more about the marketing as opposed to the leads. And so I think you 155 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.200 know, depending on Your Business and service, but if you look at the 156 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.440 data and you look at what's driving the customers, from what I've seen, 157 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:54.480 it's not going to be the campaigns in the programs that are very focused on 158 00:11:54.519 --> 00:12:00.399 just capturing contact information. And so once you have that data, it's a 159 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.000 lot easier to take that work with your you know your leadership team. You're 160 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:09.240 exact team on how to actually craft a program that would drive customers as opposed 161 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.440 to leads. And then, once you have that data and that by and 162 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:16.600 then, yeah, you can work with your work, with your existing materials. 163 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.360 One of them could be just taking your sales deck, slicing and dicing 164 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.039 it up into campaigns or ads for social or paid social. Another easy win 165 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.759 I like to talk about with companies that a lot of companies do is webinars. 166 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.840 Right. A lot of companies put on webinars. There get a lot 167 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.000 of them are gated, which means they're behind a form. And so, 168 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.279 rather than creating a new content, take those Webinars, take the best three 169 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.440 thousand hundred and sixty second clips right, add subtitles and a headline if you 170 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.600 can, and then and then run those as a campaign as well. So 171 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.080 you're really able to like almost up cycle this creative and content that you've already 172 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.960 made, but was only for such a small amount of people because of the 173 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.519 of the friction that was in place, like for the Webinar, meaning that 174 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.639 the form and now so many more people can actually access it and therefore, 175 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.960 you know, learn about about your company. I would say you can go 176 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.519 one step further, than that and you could take the script of the Webinar 177 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.440 and re record the video so it doesn't just look like a Webinar, and 178 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.600 get someone who is enthusiastic on your team to do it so that it looks 179 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.960 slightly different, because people will eat that up in a different way than knowing 180 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.080 that your content was repurposed from a Webinar. But if you don't have that 181 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:31.919 bar set yet and you're not even repurposing your Webinar, are just start there. 182 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.080 Do that. But I'm saying if you're doing that and you want to 183 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.720 raise the bar one more time, just try getting someone who is good on 184 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.799 came off ups. I'll take it to the next one. I love that. 185 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:45.759 It's good man the companies that work with or it's ability, very tight 186 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.879 on resources. So yeah, a lot of these recommendations are basically from maximizing 187 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.840 the existing resources and content that that you do have. But absolutely, you 188 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.559 know, webinars. I agree with you specifically because the way that webinars get 189 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.120 recorded, even if you are if you even if your faces on it, 190 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.519 which is not a given necessarily for a lot of webinars. Let's say it's 191 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.279 a Zoom Webinar, weather is you know, some sort of recording of the 192 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:15.679 actual presenter, but the main focus is a slide. But the content and 193 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.279 creative that works the best on most channels is actually talking heads. So you 194 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.399 really want to like flip that script and prominently feature the presenter talking into the 195 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:30.919 camera, because that just is what ends up like engaging the best across channels. 196 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.639 Okay, so the pushback, I think, would be maybe at like 197 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:41.000 a executive level, where you're going. We're used to seeing this number of 198 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.200 mqls, sqls, and they've they've optimized for higher numbers. They're right, 199 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.799 versus the approach were discussing. So there's going to have to be a conversation 200 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.320 that's had that goes, Hey, guys, we might see this number dip 201 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.679 because we're actually creating some friction. What are your tips there for making sure 202 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:05.519 that conversation goes smooth moodily and we kind of foster that understanding? That is 203 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.159 a that is a very uncomfortable conversation that I've had before. So I do 204 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.679 want to acknowledge that. It's not an easy one, right, because you're 205 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.559 you know, you're basically telling you know, whoever your leaders, your exacts, 206 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.919 that listen, like we are the the mql, the SQL volume that 207 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:26.080 we've been seeing is going to go down right, and that that you immediately 208 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.200 on the on everyone's faces. You see this panic set set in, that, 209 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:31.480 oh my God, like what's going to you know what? What does 210 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.720 it mean for the growth? We have these enormous girl growth targets. What 211 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:39.159 does that mean sort of for our trajectory? And again, is there's a 212 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.159 lot of just go back to the data, right. So reassure them that 213 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:50.039 that these programs are not actually driving any customers, so changing the strategy won't 214 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:54.000 affect the business bottom line. And then really, you know, the conversation, 215 00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:00.639 yeah, just needs to be about how we are taking a customer acquisition 216 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:06.600 of e centric folk approach and you know, that will allow us to do 217 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.320 better marketing. That also we are more excited about, and and that's something 218 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.799 that I've seen work really well, is to use the data right, to 219 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.159 use DRT, like, to use strategy rooted in data, but then also 220 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.320 flip it back on them and ask them like, are you excited about the 221 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.679 marketing that you've been doing, like these these legenforms, right, like this, 222 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:32.039 this this type of a process, is this something that you're excited about, 223 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:33.960 because if you're not excited about it, then I promise you that your 224 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.919 customers and your future customers are not going to be excited about it either. 225 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:45.080 That's such a huge shift that's needed, and especially in those early days where, 226 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.759 if you're so in the weeds on things, it's easy to just go 227 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.480 we just need these amount of form fills, versus, if you were on 228 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.840 the other end of that form fill, would it even make sense for you 229 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.000 to be filling that out? Like would you even so, that's such an 230 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.559 easy switch. That again, like, as someone that does marketing, I'm 231 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.079 so guilty of still opting for the form creation and you need someone outside sort 232 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.160 of asking you those helpful questions, which you're doing for us today. And 233 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:17.240 it makes sense. Companies have such aggressive growth targets that then it has they 234 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.920 have to do this. They have almost are forced into this, like well, 235 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.279 let's work backwards if we need this money customers and we need this money 236 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.799 as growls, and I'm cusn't it makes it feel almost more manageable and more 237 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:32.079 tangible to do it that way. But you'll end up going down this, 238 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.000 you know, this path of being really limited in terms of the way you're 239 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:40.480 doing marketing and how much you can actually grow the business long term. Okay, 240 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:42.359 so I got one more follow up question before we start to wrap up 241 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.759 here, and that would just be around the transition period. So if you 242 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.480 were again to you're talking to executives. They're going on. I'm a little 243 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.759 nervous on this, but you're asking these questions. is a transition a swift 244 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.519 one? Is it when you're kind of proving out the value of the new 245 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.160 way over a couple months? Like how do you advise is that transition actually 246 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:04.240 taking place? Yeah, that's a great that's a really important question because I 247 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:10.519 think you know this. All this strategy is is great in concept, but 248 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.400 execution is just as important, if not more important. As far as implementation, 249 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:21.160 I think it depends a lot on the business and sort of the current 250 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.640 state and how things are going, for example, there and they could be 251 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:30.119 a spectrum right where I would recommend to clients generally that they just pause on 252 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.720 all of their advertising, assuming that it's most almost none of its converting to 253 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.799 customers. Again, that can be really scary thing to hear as a leader 254 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.000 of one of these companies. But budget is not infinite from host companies and 255 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:48.400 so I really encourage them to deploy it when they have newer, creative and 256 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:53.039 newer content that is more optimized for consumption as opposed to, you know, 257 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:59.200 conversion. So you could do you could do a hard switch over. It 258 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:00.920 depends how much buying you have. You could also let some of the stuff 259 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.400 you're doing keep, continue to run as you sort of build up this library 260 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:10.799 of newer assets or up cycled assets and and that will hopefully give you just 261 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:15.519 a little more time to feel like you have the the the bandwidth to test 262 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:21.279 and iterate as you're going. But to you really need buy and no matter 263 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:25.200 what, because it's like you're basically starting from scratching a lot of ways in 264 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.039 terms of the way you market took to people, and that's going to take 265 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:33.680 time to actually show in the market. Yeah, I think that buying is 266 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.640 key and the way that you get to buy in also is by just admitting 267 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.000 that you're testing things right and that continued test you're going to prove results over 268 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:47.599 time. But also marketing gets this view of being shiny and if we can 269 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.240 be a little less shiny and just show, Hey, this is what we 270 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.359 tested on, this is what didn't work, this is how we're iterating and 271 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.799 changing, you gain trust and you can do with that over time. Early 272 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:03.400 I think that learning is actually one of the best KPI's in marketing. As 273 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.119 far as how effective it is is obviously you know first and foremost, as 274 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:10.640 is revenue, but short of that is what are we learning like? What 275 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.200 are we learning about our customers? What are we learning about the marking that 276 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:17.960 we're doing and us? As long as there is this active feedback cycle where 277 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.200 we are are gaining tangible learnings, then I think that is a really good 278 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:29.680 signal for leaders and executives. This is a good conversation talking about adding friction 279 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:34.279 intentionally, the right amount of friction as marketers and we know that it's extremely 280 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.680 important. Jacob, thanks for walking US through this. You mentioned at the 281 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.400 top consultant advisor for early stage tech companies, but tell people, are there 282 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:47.880 some ways that you would want those that are interested to stay connected to the 283 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.599 work that you're doing, or what are ways that maybe someone with a question 284 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:55.559 could reach out to you? Yeah, I'm on Linkedin, so you can 285 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.039 you can find me. They're happy to happy to chat and answer any questions 286 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.799 anyone might have. Love it. I am over on Linkedin. As well 287 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.640 and would love to chat with listeners on this up about this episode, about 288 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:12.119 marketing or about business, about life. Always wanting to connect with with folks 289 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:15.920 over there. So fantastic episode. If you have yet to follow, be 290 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:21.000 to be growth on whatever podcast platform you're listening to the song, be sure 291 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:23.279 to do that so you never miss an episode. Will be back real soon 292 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.799 with more content for you want to help you continue to innovate and be the 293 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:33.240 best you can be in your marketing efforts. Keep doing work that matters and 294 00:21:33.680 --> 00:22:03.400 have a great one.