Transcript
WEBVTT
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There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers
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to pay attention to your brand?
Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients
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to be guests on your show.
Learn more at sweetfish MEDIACOM. You're listening
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to be tob growth, a daily
podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed
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names you've probably heard before, like
Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but
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you've probably never heard from the majority
of our guests. That's because the bulk
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of our interviews aren't with professional speakers
and authors. Most of our guests are
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in the trenches leading sales and marketing
teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting
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with tactics. They're building the fastest
growing be tob companies in the world.
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My name is James Carberry. I'm
the founder of sweetfish media, a podcast
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agency for BB brands, and I'm
also one of the CO hosts of this
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show. When we're not interviewing sales
and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from
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behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of
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our journey as we attempt to take
over the world. Just getting well,
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maybe let's get into the show.
Welcome back to be tob growth. I
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am your host for today's episode,
Nikki Ivy with sweet fish media. Listen,
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guys, I've got with me to
day NIMMI Reekenberg, who is chief
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marketing officer at simplify. Mimi,
how you doing today? I'm great.
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Thank you so much for having me. It's going to be it's going to
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be fun. I love the topic
that we're going to be covering to day
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and I love the way that you
sort of think about these things. Guys,
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we're going to be digginning to how
and why sales and marketing leaders can
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be vss, which is not often
a way do we hear those two discipline
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described, but it is something that
we should be a striving for. You
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going to talk to us about why
and how. But before we get into
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all of that, near me,
I would love it if you would just
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give us a little bit of background
on yourself and what you and the folks
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that simplified been up to these days. Sure, so, he said,
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of the chief marketing officer at simplify. This is my fourth see more role,
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and simplify is in a cyber security
company. We in our inner space
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within cyber security that goes by sore
for security orchestration automation and responds and basically
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we provide a platform that helps security
professionals work more effectively automate a lot of
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their tasks for all US marketers out
there and not unlike what a marketing automation
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platform is for marketing professionals, simplify
as fires to be for security professionals,
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where just over a und employees,
growing very, very fast and having fun
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doing it right. I'm glad you
said that the last part, because that
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that absolutely matters and one of the
things that plays into how much fun we
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can have here in a bdb sitting
a lot of the time is to the
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extent to which not just the disciplines
and departments that stales the marketing are aligned,
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but specifically how all those two leaders
work together and collaborate together. So
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it's in everybody's best interest as much
as possible for those two rote be bfs
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and I want, I want just
to give us started. Gives no review
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of why you think that is.
Some experiences that you had maybe that sort
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of informed that of being in sure
so, and I think we all read
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all the data about you know the
CMO turnover and the Turner is getting shorter
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and shorter. I don't remember the
exact numbers, but it is me twenty
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four months and a drop to eighteen. I've seen it as low as twelve
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months. The hopefully I still have
a job by the time this this podcast
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is over. But from from my
experience, you know, one of the
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key factors too kind to see a
most success the longevity, is having a
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good relationship with your sales counterpart and
the kind of that's kind of why I
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picked this topic for the all the
CFOs out there and maybe even more importantly,
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for the aspiring CMO is out there, to of course they understand that
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this is a part of the importance, but then also share a little bit
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of how I believe I was successful
for the most part in achieving this.
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And you know, I think I've
worked along alongside a lot of sales leader
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and the the overwhelming majority of the
Times I've had a great work in relationship
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with them. Still in touch with
most most of them to this day.
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And you know, when I was
interviewed for seeing more rules, where the
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common questions, of rightly so,
was well, how do you handle the
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tension between know you and the head
of sales and and my responsible as well,
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and all honestly, almost never experienced
tension with my sales kind of party
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ers. Why? So that's why
I kind of thought this was an important
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topic to discuss. All this pots. Sure, and so now you got
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to share it with us. Now, okay, what he said your ways.
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So so how did you? How
did you avoid, because I think
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that's the first thing you talked about
offline here, about how a depth you've
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been, or had to be at
diffusing some of that tension. Start with,
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though, some of the things you
do going in and some things folks
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can do going in to avoid that
tension all together and possible. Sure,
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so to me it all begins with
shared goals and shared metrics, right,
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and I think everybody talks this talk
and it said. It's maybe common knowledge,
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but it's not always common practice,
right, and I can tell you
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how many times I've heard stories of
meetings or board meetings. We're in on
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a CMO presented and said, all
right, we've had a great quarter.
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Right, we needed to generate a
hundred squlls and we generated two hundred Su
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Right, great job marketing. We
killed it. And after that, you
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know, they had to Celles went
to present and guess what? Right that
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all the guys. We had a
terrible quarter. You know, we need
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to generate ten million dollars in revenue
and we only generated six million dollars of
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revenue. And in that is you
know, that's an extreme case, but
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not that I'm common of. Clear
misalignment between sales and marketing and how how
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their goals of structure. So,
from a practical perspective, the number one
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goal that I always set for me
and my team is closed revenue. Right,
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and and and I get pushed back
on that a lot of times from
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from marketers, and maybe you work
at other company says, what do you
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mean close revenue? But how can
we influence closed? Everything we can include,
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can generate lead, we can maybe
generate pipeline, but ultimately, you
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know, the sales people are the
ones that have to take these great leads
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that we generate and they have full
control over whether it turns into revenue.
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And and my response to this objection
is to fold is. One is we
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want to have a successful relationship with
sales. It's important for all of us
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and this is the way we do
it. And the second thing is I
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also say, Hey, if you
think the sales people have full control or
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whether a deal clothes or not,
I've got another you know, I've got
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some news to shore with you.
Right, and you nobody has full control.
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There's so many factors that can go
wrong. But being in that same
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boat with with with sales, also
means that we as a marketing and even
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enough, if I kind of layer
break it down, operationally, our job
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is to help sales at every stage
of the deal. Right. Our our
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job is not done when we deliver
a sales qualify of the the sales.
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There's many things that we can do
throughout the the sales cycle and after the
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sale cycle, with customer advocacy,
et Cetera, to olderly helped sales close
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more edge. So number one goal
is always closed revenue. Then you talked
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about note that typeline and squls,
but but typically the kind of hard revenue
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and and or very closely tied to
revenue goals are the lines share of the
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goals that both me and my team
are are measured. And the second thing
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that I kind of the flip side
of that is what I never set as
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a goal that I share with sales
or share share with the board are marketing
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metrics that you can ring. So
I mean there's not talk about vanity metrics,
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and of course I can. Web
traffic is a vanity metric. But
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even goals like mqls, ultimately the
way they work in most organization that you
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know, I can kind of set
the threshold for what an Mteld it.
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So if I want more mqls,
you know it kind of you know,
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tweet the definitional event or change the
lead scoring model and my marketing automation system.
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And then here's more. I am
to up right, so I can
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rig that to make myself look good. And I and of course we measure
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quels, if you measure web traffic
and a whole bunch of other things.
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But again, when we talk about
those shared goals, I avoid any metric
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that I can kind of artificially rig
on you internal to the marketing part.
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That makes sense and I so seen
that. I've seen that. You know,
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I did a lot of my experience
because, I like to say,
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in these start up streets, they're
out there in Austin as a sales person
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and yeah, I've seen what happens
when those metrics that can be manipulated or,
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you know, instantly misinterpreted, whatever
it is, be the number one
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contributor to that Miss Alignment. It's
like the the scenario you talked about in
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the very beginning where, you know, you have these these meetings and marketing
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is talking about how successful a quarter
of they've had and there's a disconnect between
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that and what seals is experience thing
and I think that, like you said,
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it's, you know, not understanding
which of the shared metrics need to
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be focused on in order to achieve
that that common goal. But one of
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the ways, because you mentioned that, you know, markers would be like
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hey, we're doing our job and
sales is just, you know, dropping
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the ball. I don't know if
the language is that strong, I've certainly
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heard it be that strong, but
one of the ways to sort of for
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your for your own good as a
marketer, to test that out, as
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you mentioned offline, is to walk
in their shoes and I've so, I've
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heard this, I've, we've thought, talked to other other seems and marketing
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leaders who have who have had a
similar idea, which is, you know,
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make better use of call recording software
and listen or even do ride alongs
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with sales folks and be on a
live call with them. But you're you
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meant to take it a step further. You talked about actually prospecting. So
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if I'm a marketer and I have
this idea, this this slide deck and
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I think this is the slide deck
to end all slide decks, if only
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these sales people could get it right, what better way to test that out
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for all of our good then for
me to try and see what I can
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do with it? Talk to us
about that for a little bit. This
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is interesting, sure. So I
think the main point is, as you
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mention, and if you want to
have a good relationship with sales, walk
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as many miles in their shoes right
as as makes sense, because it being
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sales people. And this is true
at the leadership level. It's also true,
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you know, further down the the
the ORG chart. Sales have respect
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for people who walk it down their
shoes right. I mean we actually hear
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it's simple time. You recently brought
on a great new kind of sales and
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you know, one of the things
he's already said Multiple Times, and I've
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heard of multiple passant. I agree
that every anythings sales is easy until you
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actually have to do it right.
So sales is hard and and I think
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the only way you can appreciate how
hard it is and what the challenge is
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are is to walk a couple miles
in their shoes. And I can be
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a lot of things, as you
said. It can mean things like going
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on sales cause and whether their virtual
or actually physical with sales, right.
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And and one of the things that
I try very hard with myself is kind
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of port is to get my team
listening on, on on customer call.
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It's not always easy and sometimes cells
are protective of these things, but if
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you have a good relationship and you
do it, obviously you know. In
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reason, I think it's very important
to get your team members in front of
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with sales, in front of customers
and perspective, customers of God, as
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far as yes, let's prospect,
let's take these, you know, a
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bunch of these leads that come back
from shows and actually, you know,
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test our great scripts in our great
message. Right, and you know,
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let me see, first day,
if somebody says, Hey, that's you
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know, that's a pretty bad pitch, right. I mean that's the way.
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So even presentation right again, it
said, you know, you build
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a straight presitation. How about you
presented on a customer call once right and
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and see again if it's as great
as you think it is or if you
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know, once it's in in front
of a real customer, maybe it's not
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as great as you think. So
there's a lot of different things that that
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marketing can do to walk some miles
and sales is shoes and ultimately earn their
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respect. And one of the things
that we talked about, and I know
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gravitate towards, I'm like, I'm
religious about it, but I gravitate towards,
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is having the sty R D or
whatever you call it. But that
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team sit with marketing and again,
I've seen it succeed both undermarketing under sales.
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I've seen it not succeed both under
marketing and under sales. But my
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my case for for putting it under
marketing is twofold one. Is exactly that.
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Ali Right. You're much closer to
walk in a day in sales the
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students when you own the is the
our team, because now you're not just
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passing business cards over the fence to
sales. You actually have to reach out
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to them, see if those are
good leads, actually get them interested,
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at least would out initial pitch and
do that initial qualification before you hand them
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over to sens right, and then
members who are members of the marketing team,
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which are the SDRs, then also
can can help the deal progress if
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needed, as the deal move moves
and progresses towards towards the close. So
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I think owning the SCR function and
having that currency with your head of sales
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be in in sales qualified meetings and
appointments and not in just raw leads really
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helps the goal of becoming the sales
leaders be a F and, and you
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and I talked about this before the
podcast. I think you know one of
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the things as a marketer, when
you own the SCR team, you're going
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to have be prepared. You have
to be prepared to promote some of them
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into sales roles and then they leave
the SCR team and become part of the
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sales team. But what you then
have is you have these great ambassadors that
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used to be part of the marketing
department now working in sales, and that
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helps bring those two teams closer together
as well. For sure, for sure,
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because you know they're their ambassadors,
because their believers, because they've been
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been engaging with this marketing function for
all this time. The best application that
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I've seen of what you just mentioned
as a company I worked for. Back
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when I work for them, they
were a company called Kinser and awesome.
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Texas sold electronic medical record software into
the home health industry and very successful.
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They're now huge. They're called well
sty the international but at this time we
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were called MDR so, market development
reps, and we were paired one to
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one with account executives, but we, for all intents and purposes, were
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part of this marketing team, to
the extent that if the marketing team had
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put together a a Webinar that was
for our, you know, prospects and
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customers, the MD ours were required
to sit in on those webinars. Right.
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So we were engaging with the content
that the marketing team was producing in
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a way that wasn't just here is
this deck or here, here are,
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here is this messaging. We were
able to see the house and wise in
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terms of the creation of that that
messaging, and yes, it absolutely stuck
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with us and yes, it absolutely
what we were having a much different conversation.
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As you know. You know mdrs
in that setup than most SDRs recording
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to sales are having when they are
engaging with elite. Right, because,
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let's say we hadn't set in on
those meetings and hadn't engaged with the contents
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that marketing was putting out. But
then we were responsible because there were still
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an mql system there. But then
we're responsible for engaging with the leads that
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came from it, right, some
of the hand raisers from these these webinars.
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Then we've kind of be going into
those conversations blind, as most sales
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people do, right, and just
kind of vaguely referencing, Hey, I
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know that you said it on this
Webinar of ours, blah, Blah Blah.
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But having US had the responsibility of
keeping ourselves informed on the content that
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marketing was creating and then being really
intentional about having a cohesive way that we
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were telling that story and continuing having
a continuity of that message, even as
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we were reaching out to just hand
raisers, made all the difference. All
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anybody out there, and I know
like I'm not only using plug folks on
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this show, but if you're looking
for an example of the things that we're
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talking about outside of Mimi himself,
that company will sky really, really had
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it right when it comes to things
like that. So just everything that he's
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been saying sort of reminding me of
like that use case for these things.
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So thank you so much for laying
out for us the importance of sales leaders
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and marketing leaders becoming bfs and talking
to us about really how to make that
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happen through shared metrics, through SCR
teams that roll up into, or at
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least engage regularly with with the marketing
team, and through walking in each other
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shoes. I think that's the way
to go. Yeah, and I've just
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one more point. This is,
let me specific to see most something always
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try to do and also do here
at simplify is, you know, simplified.
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We have the concept of executive sponsor. So when we work in a
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very big strategic deal, in addition
to the regular team right of sales,
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and I see that works the deal, there's also an executive sponsor and that
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is somebody from management that kind of, you know, has this overside the
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deal and can go to bat for
that deal at the highest levels of the
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company. I always want to serve
as an executive sponsor and a handful of
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deals and get this exposure to what
is actually going on in the field.
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So that's a great kind of tactic
for a CMO to I love that.
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What happened. I love that.
I love that so much. So now,
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maybe that I have successfully picked your
brain and seeing what I could get
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out of it, it's time for
you to tell us what you are putting
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in it. So talk to us
about a learning resource that you've been engaging
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with here recently. That or one
that you, you know, just kind
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of go back to from trying to
time. That is for me in your
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approach. This just got you excited
these days? Sure. So, first
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of all, say they hours.
I think at this stage in my career
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the number one resource that I actually
go to is fellow CMOS and fellow marketing
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US right. So I found out
earlier in my career. I I in
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and I'll followed more blogs more diligently, followed more path podcast which are still
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doing in this is one of them. So it was really great when you
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when you have to actually have the
opportunity to do to be on this podcast.
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But I think for me, at
least over time, the number one
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research is just talking to Pollocy,
I most, picking their brain, seeing
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what's out there. I do want
to take you off on kind of a
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book that is off the beaten track. It's what it's not one of the
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classic books that most people heard of, heard about that I find myself referring
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to time and time again. Actually
did that last week as well. It's
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a book called killing giants. I
don't remember the author right now but I
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know if you google it you'll find
it. But it's called killing giants and
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it's basically great strategy. Some of
them I actually use to this day to
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I think that the subway line is, you know, proven strategies to battle
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the Galian in your industry, right
so you know, if you're a small
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company, you going out up against
big companies, which is often the case,
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I sun for many of the listeners
on this podcast. This book,
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and it's not new and maybe ten
years old or something, has some great
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strategies that I used to this very
day as a relatively small company that sometimes
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have to compete with with very big
company. So that's a kind of an
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off the beaten track recommendation. I
love it. I'm all about giving a
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the edge to the to the underdogs. Story of my life. I have
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to check that out one out.
So maybe I know that, just like
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me, everybody listening has become a
fast fan of yours and they're going to
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want to know how to keep up
with you. So let it tell us,
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let us know how folks can connect
with you. Sure, so very
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active on Linkedin and Reichenberg. You
can find it. They're less active on
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twitter, but at and Reichenberg is
my hand along on twitter, and you
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can also email me at and Reichenberg, at simplify spelt S. I feel
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I have why do feel perfect?
Thank you so much. There's a million
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other things, other questions I'd like
to ask you. Just be based on
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your experience as a four time CMOS
as one of the aspirations I have actually
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as well. Well, I'd like
to be a first a onetime seem right,
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but it can fill another show,
so we'll have to have you one
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again sometime here in the future.
This has been great. I think you
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gave us a lot to chew on, to think about and to apply,
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I which is also my goal,
always my goal for this show. Thank
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you so much for being on the
show today. To me, thank you
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with my punter. We totally get
it. We publish a ton of content
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on this podcast and it can be
a lot to keep up with. That's
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why we've started the BB growth big
three, a no fluff email that boils
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00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.160
down our three biggest takeaways from an
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