1110: Calling BS on ABM w/ Latane Conant

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.639 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.589 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:10.710 --> 00:00:15.109 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.989 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:27.620 sweetfish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B 6 00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:32.060 TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck 7 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:36.049 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 8 00:00:36.689 --> 00:00:40.689 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:45.170 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 10 00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:50.159 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing be tob 11 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:53.640 companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of 12 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:57.560 sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one 13 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.280 of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing 14 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.189 leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will 15 00:01:04.230 --> 00:01:07.510 share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the 16 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:19.379 world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back 17 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:23.260 to BEDB growth. I am your host for today's episode, Nikki Ivy, 18 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:27.340 with sweetfish media guys. I've got with me to day Latin e Conit, 19 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:32.930 who is CMO of six sens, latiny. How you doing today? I'm 20 00:01:33.049 --> 00:01:36.689 awesome, Nikki. Thanks for having me on your show. Thank you, 21 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:41.209 you doing me a favorite look. I am so yes to have you on, 22 00:01:41.569 --> 00:01:45.769 because what I like to do on this show is not being echo chamber. 23 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:49.680 Right, if everybody's talking about an idea, in this case ABM, 24 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.879 in the same way, then we're doing the disservice and it gets boring. 25 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:59.000 So Latin is here to call bs on ABM straight up and we're going to 26 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.709 talk about why that isn't get into that, but before we do, Lettin 27 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:05.670 me, I would love it if you would just give us a little bit 28 00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:08.509 of background on you know yourself and what you in the folks a sixth sense 29 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:13.550 they've been up to these days. Sure, so, I'm currently the CMO 30 00:02:13.789 --> 00:02:16.699 of sixth sense. I have been at it for about a year now. 31 00:02:17.099 --> 00:02:22.020 It's been a really interesting journey. Prior to sixth sense, I was at 32 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:27.300 a company called a perio and I had a variety of roles they're one of 33 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:30.090 them being the CMO, but I actually started in sale. So I talked 34 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:37.090 a lot about being recovering saleswoman or a Fox in the Hen House over in 35 00:02:37.250 --> 00:02:43.689 marketing. So on the sales driven marketer. I guess I love it. 36 00:02:43.849 --> 00:02:46.520 That's again. Now we talked about this offline. That's one of my aspirations 37 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.680 in life and I think, I think to your point of you know why 38 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:58.629 AB and what we're calling a BS on ABM's because the the collaboration, of 39 00:02:58.669 --> 00:03:02.389 the alignment needed between those two things mean that those skill sets are going to 40 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:08.629 have to overlap more and more. So you're calling bs on ABM. Give 41 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:15.460 us a quick overview on meadow, that controversial idea. Well, it is 42 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:20.419 probably pretty interesting coming from the CMO sixth sense, since we're an account based 43 00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:28.169 orchestration platform and the last year I've kind of eat, slept, breathe dreamed 44 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:34.330 everything ABM. But my Nikki, my rash now for calling bs on it 45 00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:38.449 is actually kind of personal. So when I was at a Perio, we 46 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:45.000 abm was all the hype. So there's this like pressure like, Oh my 47 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.199 God, we have to do ABM, we have to do a BM, 48 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.319 we have to do a BM, and a lot of the reasons for it 49 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.080 are very positive. Right. You can't look at an account as just to 50 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:58.710 lead. You need to be able to look at a buying team. There's 51 00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:03.349 all this activity going on anonymously before you know. Call it pre pipeline or 52 00:04:03.389 --> 00:04:06.870 your dark funnel, and so the need to understand that. So there was 53 00:04:06.909 --> 00:04:13.780 a lot of like I think the trends leading up to abm are very positive 54 00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:18.899 and forcing us to change. But what I found is when we try to 55 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:25.569 do our own ABM pilot at a Perio, it was a total cluster. 56 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:32.610 And the reason that it was a cluster was we actually had too much sales 57 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:38.600 and marketing alignment, which is a ironic and I find that the place where 58 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.959 companies really get off the rails in terms of abm is around account selection. 59 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.600 And so what ends up happening is they don't have good data. Actually, 60 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:55.509 only thirteen percent of marketers today believe that they have good data. So it 61 00:04:55.670 --> 00:04:59.389 wow. Yeah, and and honestly, if people claim that they have good 62 00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:00.509 data, I kind of give them the stink eye, because we all know 63 00:05:00.629 --> 00:05:04.189 we don't. So it's like, hmm, you must be crazy. So 64 00:05:04.629 --> 00:05:10.180 all of our data sucks and and it's all non activity. And so it 65 00:05:10.300 --> 00:05:15.060 ends up happening for ABM is we go to sales and we code, quote 66 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:18.180 unquote, collaborate with sales and we get what I call the potluck dinner of 67 00:05:18.259 --> 00:05:25.129 accounts. So every AE, every region, every industry brings their a couple 68 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:30.529 accounts that we've got to go and do ABM on. And ABM calls for 69 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:36.160 us to put, you know, an exponentially more amount of resources on and 70 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:41.319 there's no rhyme to reason to why we should be putting resources on these accounts. 71 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:46.519 And so I totally fell into that trap at a Perio we had that. 72 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:50.910 We put a ton of work into our Potpourri of accounts and and it 73 00:05:50.990 --> 00:05:55.990 kind of sucked right, because I am on the hook to deliver pipeline and 74 00:05:56.550 --> 00:06:03.540 and so so when I saw sixtents, and I've started to understand that's broader 75 00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:10.259 trend that's happening with our buyers, and I really took a step back and 76 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:15.379 I zoomed out and I thought about be to be buying and then I coupled 77 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:20.089 that with what's possible with some of the new technologies and an ai out there. 78 00:06:20.449 --> 00:06:26.569 It was just a huge epiphany around not just making a shift to ABM, 79 00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:30.529 but how the future of I think, revenue mark you know, be 80 00:06:30.689 --> 00:06:32.920 to be marketing and selling needs to be. Well, yeah, you gave 81 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.399 us a lot and it's a lot for me to try and digest this as 82 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.959 as a salesperson, this idea of having too much alignment. But it makes 83 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.920 sense the way that you the way that you framed this up right. So 84 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.269 you found yourself in the situation where it's like who's driving the ship? Right, 85 00:06:49.310 --> 00:06:55.430 if we've all decided that we need to everybody's ideas on which accounts are 86 00:06:55.670 --> 00:06:58.829 being put in this big pile that we're targeting, and, like you said, 87 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:00.899 there's not enough rhyme of reason around that, I can see how it 88 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:04.740 could just become, as you put it, a cluster. So so what 89 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:08.180 do you do? What do you do? What happens next? Once you 90 00:07:08.259 --> 00:07:13.220 realize maybe this this ABM thing, as we've applied it or as as as 91 00:07:13.259 --> 00:07:16.410 we've been thinking about it, is is scalable, where do you pivot? 92 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:21.569 Yeah, so I think I talked about zooming out a lot and and saying, 93 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:26.730 okay, what's let's talk. We love to talk about ourselves, but 94 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:30.399 let's talk about our prospects and our buyers for you know, humor me for 95 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.519 two seconds. So a couple things that we know to be true about be 96 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:40.399 to be prospects today. One, they don't want to talk to sales and 97 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.439 they don't want to really talk to marketing, so they're not filling out our 98 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.389 forms. You know, one of our big tricks and marketing is to create 99 00:07:46.430 --> 00:07:50.550 all this amazing content and then put a form of so people have to put 100 00:07:50.589 --> 00:07:55.350 their email in. As soon as we as they put their email in, 101 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:58.230 we spam the hell out of them. I call that a one way trip 102 00:07:58.310 --> 00:08:01.339 to unsubscribe island, and then we're frustrated, you know, that they're not 103 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:07.660 converting. So we have to really embrace this notion that fed. The buyers 104 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:11.259 want to do a lot of research and we have to enable that and understand 105 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:18.529 those research patterns. So that's like priority one priority to it just in terms 106 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:22.209 of the way be to be buyers by is they buy and team. So 107 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:26.199 it's harder and we need to beat we need to empathize. Really it's harder 108 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.839 and harder to make a decision and be to be more. People want to 109 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.639 be involved. There's tons of information out there. They've got to deconflict this 110 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:39.000 information. So we have to look not just at a lead or an individual 111 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.549 for a, at an at a buying team and how they operate together. 112 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:46.269 So that's like kind of the second thing and we need to really embrace that 113 00:08:46.429 --> 00:08:52.309 buying team notion. HMM. And then third it's harder actually, and so 114 00:08:52.549 --> 00:08:58.100 when we talk about marketing and sales alignment, we need that even more today 115 00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:03.139 because, to be honest, marketing is probably going to have to do even 116 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:09.419 more of the load because there it takes so many different touches to get someone 117 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:13.730 to engage. So a lot of the statistics will say it's like eight to 118 00:09:13.049 --> 00:09:18.889 twelve personalized touches. You know, we find with our BEDR aidences it's like 119 00:09:20.049 --> 00:09:24.360 fifteen to twenty two. Wow. Yeah. So it is harder and harder 120 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.960 today to break out of that noise and marketing and sales are really going to 121 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:33.639 have to collaborate at a new level, and so we call that at six 122 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.870 sense. We call bringing all of those things together, and and that what's 123 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:43.629 going on with the to be buying your dark funnel, and every day that 124 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:50.990 dark funnel is getting bigger and bigger and scarier and scarier. And the key 125 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:56.980 to aligning marketing and sales is not guessing. The key to aligning marketing and 126 00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:01.779 sales is having insights. So take that example at a perio. If I 127 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:07.769 had come to sales and said I have the inside rights, I know that 128 00:10:07.929 --> 00:10:11.490 these are the accounts in market because I can see their research, I can 129 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:16.450 see they're interested, these are the accounts I believe we should go after, 130 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:20.529 they would have been like that makes a lot of sense. Lattin great right. 131 00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:24.519 And so I'm not saying don't align, but what I'm saying is let's 132 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:31.240 let true insights and data and understanding our prospects be the source of alignment and 133 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.470 really the source of truth. And you know, everyone just wants to win. 134 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:41.549 And so when you bring insights and data and the ability to like orchestrate 135 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:46.070 great experiences and a sales team sees that they're going to be all in, 136 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:50.860 the alignment happens naturally, like winning is the best way to alive. Ain't 137 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.100 that right? I think that. I think that you really hit it on 138 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:58.259 the head here when you talk about it being the the approach being data driven, 139 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:01.299 and that being you know, that that being the the thing, the 140 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:07.250 primary thing that informs the the accounts you after. Otherwise, like you mentioned 141 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:11.009 before, you just have this hodgepodge of people's ideas based on there not so 142 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.730 much competing agendas but their agendas that aren't exactly, you know, aligned. 143 00:11:16.169 --> 00:11:20.320 And so this insight that you talk about, you and I'm talked about offline, 144 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.080 it comes from it comes from Ai. Is that? What is that? 145 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:28.240 How how folks take this step into getting this insight, to get the 146 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.279 data to bring to sales, in the scenario that you painted here, to 147 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.110 now know exact exactly which accounts to go after exactly? I mean I think, 148 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:39.669 I think we can all for the most part, agree are our first 149 00:11:39.750 --> 00:11:45.029 party data probably sucks. So the data in our CRM, our map system, 150 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.299 is not as good as we want it to be. So what do 151 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:52.779 you have to do? You've got to marry your data with a much, 152 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:58.340 much bigger data source, and that's where kind of the the big data comes 153 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:01.009 in. And then, once you have that, you have to have the 154 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:05.809 right kind of data scientists and approaches to be able to actually make sense of 155 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:11.409 that. And so what's so cool to me, and honestly why I took 156 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:16.159 the job at sixth tents, is being able to see, Holy Shit, 157 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:22.440 I can take my crappy data, marry it up with sixth sense in this 158 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:28.480 universe of data, HMM, and the AI can then look at patterns and 159 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:35.190 tell me my dark funnel. So now I don't have a dark funnel anymore, 160 00:12:35.389 --> 00:12:37.629 I have a lip funnel. And so what my my pree pipeline. 161 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:43.669 So this is before something even becomes typeline. I know. I know my 162 00:12:43.830 --> 00:12:46.139 best accounts to target. I know the accounts that are most likely to buy 163 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:50.139 for me, which is huge. Why would I go after an account and 164 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:54.139 waste any time or money on an account that isn't even a good account for 165 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:58.379 me? Because Hustle, push hard. I'm just kidding, right, but 166 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.490 that's the problem that it's like we were all going to work hard, but 167 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:05.250 let's work smart and right. So I know the universe of accounts that are 168 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:07.289 good, good for me. But also, within that universe, and this 169 00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:13.039 is what I think is most compelling and important, is there are some accounts 170 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.120 that I would love to sell to, but they are under a rock. 171 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:22.480 They don't care they're not going to buy anytime soon. I can't waste time 172 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.679 on them because there's enough accounts that are actually, quote unquote, what we 173 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.750 call in market. That means they're doing research right now on solutions. They 174 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:37.110 they know they have a problem. They're researching problem statements directly related to what 175 00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:41.740 I do. Those are the people that I need to know about. Those 176 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:46.899 are the people that need to be surfaced to marketing to bring them along to 177 00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:52.779 make sure that they marry their problem and what they're trying to do with succeps. 178 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:56.250 So that's kind of the first step, and then the second step is, 179 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:58.889 once I've been able to see, okay, these people know they have 180 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.009 a problem, I need them to learn from me, and so that's the 181 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:09.809 next step of uncovering my dark funnel, is getting people to like when I 182 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.639 know they're keywords and I know what they're interested in, then I can then 183 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.039 surface my educational material so that they start to learn from sixtens. And then 184 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.519 it's about getting them to want to engage and then it's about getting them to 185 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.309 want to meet. But you have to have full visibility and to that kind 186 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:31.269 of dark funnel and what they're doing anonymously so that you can create a great 187 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:37.509 prospect experience. I think that we've really, really gotten in our own way 188 00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:41.779 and we're using the same bag of tricks and it's actually bad for our brand 189 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:46.620 and it's not a great prospect experience. I don't want you to call me 190 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:50.139 if I'm not ready. I don't want you to send me a million emails 191 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.450 like I want you to know when I'm ready and what I'm interested in, 192 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:56.570 and then of course I'll take a call. But See, I think be 193 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.649 able to understand that. I think you're absolutely right and I think how we 194 00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:05.009 got there is sales is the want. Are the ones who are sort of 195 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:09.840 on the front lines and having these conversations, meeting folks after without any of 196 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.399 that insight in most cases, right and and then they're sort of words. 197 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.399 We were sort of misdiagnosing why people didn't want to talk to us and in 198 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.789 that missiagnosed in white people didn't want to talk to us. We came up 199 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:26.870 with this idea with Oh maybe if we just, like I mentioned before, 200 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:31.190 like try harder or be, you know, have more strategy or say these 201 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:35.710 particular words, if so much, so much. Dad Is omers lived route 202 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:39.500 throw and the through three words to say in your intro in order to get 203 00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:43.220 someone to take a cold call. But, like the problem start so much 204 00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:46.019 before that. But what I think is that because of where we were in 205 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.250 hustle, boord and and Bro Culture, so it's people just weren't allowed, 206 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:54.129 when you're not allowed to the salesperson, to say they're not going to buy 207 00:15:54.610 --> 00:15:58.889 unless they've already told you know. Otherwise there is this, thankfully dying but 208 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:04.360 still in some places very alive, tradition that you just have to keep going 209 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.120 for it, you know, whether whether you have any inside or not. 210 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:11.639 In part of that, I'll be easier on us because we just didn't have 211 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.480 the insight. But I think it's not a it's not an accident that it's 212 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:21.470 a marketer saying they're not going to buy, because marketers are typically the ones, 213 00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:26.309 as you've laid out for us, who are having access and who are 214 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:30.350 engaging with the data that would tell them that in a way, that would 215 00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:34.019 be, you know, sort of final enough to competently say they're not going 216 00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:37.179 to buy. Is this that makes sense? Yeah, I mean this is 217 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:41.019 a true story. So, I mean I just was on a meeting yesterday 218 00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:48.570 and it was our sales leadership team and one of our rock star marketing folks 219 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:55.330 and we were talking about prioritization and we did you know, we eat our 220 00:16:55.370 --> 00:17:00.970 own dog food, and our sixth sense data showed, hey, if an 221 00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:07.640 account reaches purchase their decision, they're eighty percent more likely to convert. And 222 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:11.400 what was happening is they were accounts that were reaching purchase their decision in sixth 223 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:17.710 sense that we're getting surfaced, but they weren't on a salesperson's target list. 224 00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:21.910 HMM, and so because they were worn on the target list, they weren't 225 00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:26.789 getting worked. And so we were we were literally leaving opportunities on the floor. 226 00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:30.779 And so what we were able to do is surface this two sales and 227 00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:34.619 say, hey, why don't we think about rotating territories, or why don't 228 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:40.339 we think about a system to make sure that these accounts that are are in 229 00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:45.930 our ICP and are likely to convert still get worked? And I mean that's 230 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.410 a conversation I'll have all day. It's like, Oh my God, there's 231 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:52.970 there's gold and the and hills and we're not minding it. So you can't 232 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:56.529 just say, you know, stop doing everything. You have to come to 233 00:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.599 them with I think the best opportunities to work that have the highest likelihood to 234 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.759 close right and and change why they're targeting what they're targeting right because, well, 235 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.039 you know, in my experience about targeting an account was because it was 236 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.910 strategic for us and that territory in terms of market share or, you know, 237 00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:15.029 I'm Straw was, you know, trying to hit my number and these 238 00:18:15.109 --> 00:18:18.109 were the folks that we're going to you know, the number was going to 239 00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:22.630 get me. there. Things like that that don't have, I you know, 240 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:26.339 in retrospect, enough to do with the buyer themselves and that don't have 241 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.339 anything to do with any any data like they're talking about, like we're talking 242 00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:33.779 about here, that was suggest they were even in market. So I don't 243 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.259 know who would say no to this. I don't know who. In the 244 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.220 way that you've that you've laid this out, it makes sense, but I 245 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:45.049 think for some of the reasons that you and I've identified, is just it's 246 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:47.849 kind of slow moving. Do you find it a movement or do you think 247 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:52.490 that folks are starting to starting to wake up to this? So we find 248 00:18:52.569 --> 00:18:57.799 there's like tow there's two camps. So there is a camp that's very comfortable 249 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:04.680 in the old mql game, M and and I get it. If you've 250 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:10.509 done it before and and it feels comfortable, it's sort of hard to want 251 00:19:10.549 --> 00:19:14.549 to change. And then we have a camp where, for whatever reason, 252 00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:19.470 there's something going on with their business that has to change. So either they're 253 00:19:19.509 --> 00:19:23.819 just not filling the funnel right. So they you know, I talked about 254 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:29.779 our problem, which was leaving opportunities on the floor, which is about prioritizing 255 00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:33.859 and converting opportunities better. So that's that's one problem that we see materialize. 256 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:37.769 But then another problem that can materialize is just not enough top of the funnel. 257 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:41.890 And so they come to us and say, you know, how do 258 00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.690 we focus? How do we put the right campaigns in market at the right 259 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:51.049 accounts to actually fill that funnel? And those deals move really fast. And 260 00:19:51.170 --> 00:19:55.279 then the last so it's I don't have enough top of fun all those deals 261 00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:00.000 move fast. There's I'm had. I know they're we're doing a lot, 262 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.279 but it's not materializing in revenue. Those deals. You know, that's more 263 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.069 of that conversion problem. Those deals move fast and that they're able to identify 264 00:20:07.190 --> 00:20:11.190 that. And then the last type are people that, yes, we have 265 00:20:11.390 --> 00:20:17.190 our MQL game down, but it's too extensive, HMM, and we know 266 00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:21.230 we need to we need to make a change, because we can't just keep 267 00:20:21.269 --> 00:20:23.819 throwing money like. We've got to manage our cost of sale. And so 268 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:27.700 then those deals move really fast. And so it's really about, like can 269 00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:33.220 we have a business conversation, not talking about ABM and wanting to do Avm, 270 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:40.250 but more of a business conversation about revenue and pipeline and and it's pretty 271 00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:44.329 obvious, like it's a good solution to go with. Yeah, now, 272 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:48.130 that's that's it. That's it right there. I'm so glad that you came 273 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:53.279 to call bs on and ABM and to lay out your reasons why for our 274 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:57.799 listeners. I think it's really important and and you've taught me for sure. 275 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.039 So now let me that I've successfully picked your brain and see what I could 276 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.750 get out of it is time for you to tell us about what you are 277 00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:10.109 putting in it. What tell us about a learning resource that you've been engaged 278 00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:12.309 with her recently? That's, you know, either informing your approach. This 279 00:21:12.430 --> 00:21:19.420 just got you excited these days. Oh Man. So I love my job 280 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.140 because I learn every day and I you know, I'm always trying to do 281 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:29.299 new, risky things, and if you want to do risky things, you've 282 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:33.450 got to learn a lot so that they're successful, which is probably not the 283 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:37.490 answer that that you're looking for. So I feel like my brain is pretty 284 00:21:37.529 --> 00:21:42.930 full at work. So I'm trying to like not fill my brain, and 285 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:48.160 the things that I do to not fill my brain are I love spinning. 286 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.160 So I'm obsessed with soul cycle. I travel a ton. If anyone ever 287 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.359 wants to meet me at soul cycle for a ride, let me know because 288 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.789 I can be found at any soul cycle in any city at any given time. 289 00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:04.869 Nice. So that's a big, big one for me. And then 290 00:22:04.869 --> 00:22:10.869 the other one is just I've got to really cool kids and I learned something 291 00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:15.339 from them every single day and so just trying to get in the flow with 292 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:22.140 them and learn from them is it's pretty fun. Yes, yes, same. 293 00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:27.539 I've have several children. It feels that way. And yes, yes, 294 00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:32.130 that's a big voting resource for me and I love. I love because 295 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:34.009 we do. We focus a lot on when I ask folks that question and 296 00:22:34.089 --> 00:22:37.009 try to gain a little inside into who they are. We focus a lot 297 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.930 on what we're we are putting in our brains and the reality is a lot 298 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:45.599 of time. Yes, you just gotta like sit all that stuff down and 299 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.559 and go someplace sals for a little while. I have never been to a 300 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.960 soul cycle. I little know fact about me. I really haven't ever worked 301 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.640 out a day of my life. I am three days into a sixty six 302 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.750 day challenge. There's no there's no weight loss will attached to it, just 303 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:06.990 like will I get up and do this workout activity for at least tween minutes 304 00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:11.029 for the next sixty six days? So I'm impressed that you do souls like 305 00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:15.019 well, all over the place here. I know that you and you extended 306 00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:18.619 an invitation and, just like me, on every listeners in the is becoming 307 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.940 a fast fan of yours, if they aren't already. Let us know how 308 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:25.299 folks can keep up with you and connect with you. Yeah, I mean 309 00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:30.369 I'm on Linkedin, so hit me up. Let's connect on Linkedin. Send 310 00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:33.529 me an email for sure, if you want to talk more. My email 311 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:42.880 is Latin Lata N. E. got CONAN CON ant at enscom. So 312 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:51.640 happy to chat more about columbs on on ABM. And Really, what I 313 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:56.029 think is executing great bab sales and marketing perfect. I have plenty more questions 314 00:23:56.109 --> 00:23:59.869 for you, so I'd love to have you back on the show and still 315 00:23:59.950 --> 00:24:02.470 then. Thank you so much for being on the show. Have a good 316 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:07.910 all right, by Nikki. We totally get it. We publish a ton 317 00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:11.259 of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. 318 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:15.619 That's why we've started the B tob growth big three, a note fluff 319 00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:19.140 email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. 320 00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:26.210 Sign up today at sweet fish mediacoma big three. That sweet fish Mediacom Sash 321 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:27.009 Big Three