Transcript
WEBVTT
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Want to expand the reach of your
content, start a podcast, feature industry
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experts on your show and leverage the
influence and reach of your guests to grow
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your brand. Learn more at sweetfish
MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth,
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a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard
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before, like Gary Vander truck and
Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard
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from the majority of our guests.
That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't
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with professional speakers and authors. Most
of our guests are in the trenches leading
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sales and marketing teams. They're implementing
strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're
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building the fastest growing BTB companies in
the world. My name is James Carberry.
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I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands,
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and I'm also one of the cohosts
of this show. When we're not
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interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll
hear stories from behind the scenes of our
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own business. Will share the ups
and downs of our journey as we attempt
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to take over the world. Just
getting well, maybe let's get into the
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show. Welcome back to bedd growth, I am your host for today's episode,
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Nikki Ivy, with sweet fish media. Guys, I've got with me
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today Daniel and Candela, who is
chief marketing officer at Conga. Daniel,
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how you doing today? I'm glad
excited to chat with you. Thanks for
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having me. Yeah, we're going
to get into it. This is gonna
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be fun, though. We so
we talked on this show a lot about
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sales and marketing alignment, but you
you had this experience where you had just
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identified this this situation, this crunch, that marketers were in right that you
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turned assembly line marketing. So,
guys, we're going to talk about why
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a simbly line marketing needs to die. But before we get to all of
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that, Daniel, I would love
it if you would just give us a
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little bit of background on yourself and
when you and the folks at Cong to
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have been up to these days.
Sure. So, I am eleven months
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in as Chief Marketing Officer at a
company called Conga, and we simplify the
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act of creating documents, managing contracts
and capturing e signatures. So if you
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think about how companies are going through
their own digital transformations at the moment.
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It's a really hot topic. Congo
works hand in hand with our customers to
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guide them through the digital document transformation
and, if you think about it,
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business is run on documents. It's
a critical piece of that. So I'm
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really excited almost a year into a
into a company that is as high growth,
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has customers that love them and is
developing truly innovative products. So that's
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where I am now. I have
a pretty interesting background. I have an
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Undergrad degree in anthropology. I spent
nine years in the museum field, I
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worked in auto racing and I've been
in the ass space for the last seven
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years. So I'm kind of new
to marketing and this whole Sass stuff,
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but I love it. It moves
so quickly. If to be the top
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of your game, and each quarter
changes from the next, so you have
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to really think on your feet.
So you're like, if Indiana Jones were
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a marketer, I'm into it.
If I was cool and, you know,
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brave and all that stuff. Yeah, that would your plenty of those
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things. Look, it's a great
thing to do to take a stance like
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this. We talk people a lot
of the time, who I have on
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this show and who we partner with
in and producing several other podcasts, and
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one of the themes that comes up
a lot is this idea of taking a
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stance on something right, like not
being at all ambiguous on how you feel.
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And this article that you wrote about
it's a manifesto. First of all.
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If you call it a Menifesto,
that's when you know you bet to
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be hate with some heat. But
it's a so it gives us Tomi Line
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Marketing. I need to know paid
the picture for is, Daniel, where
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you were in your heart and mind
and environment when you came up with that
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idea, and we're just so moved
so to write about this topic. WHO
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IT comes from? I think for
many years of experience of being a companies
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where operating as a service center,
which is what marketing does, and in
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the marketing space, and I'll put
it this way, one of my last
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boss, a gentleman named that Blueberg, said this to me. He said
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marketing is like this. He's like, you always have room for one more
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French fry. As like what are
you talking about? He's like, well,
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you always have room for another French
fry, right, and like of
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course, he's like that's marketing.
Everyone is always going to have a request
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for marketing. Everyone is always going
to have an idea and that is important.
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So everything I'm about to say does
not take away from the fact that
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marketing is there to serve the company, I'm really proud of that, and
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taking care of our stakeholders. We
are also on the hook to drive meaningful
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pipeline, drive incredible brand awareness and
contribute to the culture that those are my
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three main pillars of marketing and that
is really hard to do. And so
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when I think about the scrutiny the
marketings under it is often misunderstood. People
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assume that we design stuff and spend
a lot of money and have a ton
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of tshirts, but the fact is
we can now fully report on how we're
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contributing to pipeline, new business,
the Roy on every dollar spent. It
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is now a data world, so
marketings in a whole new space where they
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can drive strategy based on data,
and you know, we have a ton
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of data now. And so the
fact is everyone wants marketing to drive strategy
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or at least contribute to it,
but we're getting hamstrung because of all these
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requests and it's always a priority.
It's always the latest fire. It's always
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the thing that has to be done
by the end of the day and for
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me it's it's impossibly successful. I'm
still fairly new in the this role.
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I want to make sure that the
board and my boss loves what marketing is
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doing and in order for us have
the biggest impact, we have to be
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strategic. We can't do that if
we're just running around taking orders. So
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it wasn't a it wasn't written as
a disk to anyone else across companies or
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stakeholders. It's a call to arms
and a call for help, to saying
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hey, marketing should be part of
the team driving strategy. We can't do
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it if we don't have the time
to breathe. That's right. I think
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that's right and I think that the
more folks take this collaborative approach between will
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stakeholders in the overall revenue growth team, your sales and marketing teams, I
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think that that starts to make more
sense. And sometimes it's just as simple,
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as you know, having meetings together
instead of having several meetings where the
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information is been downloading. Things are
lost in translation because what you just talked
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about. So let's say, as
I'm sure it happens in most organizations.
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Right, marketing got together, they've
got their ducks in a row in terms
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of, you know, how to
prove Roi Dollar dollar for what they spend.
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I've got their strategy, and then
some sales person walks out to them
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is like hey, at this conference
we went to, our competitors have fidget
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spinners. We get fidget spinners like
this is like, come on dog,
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like it's in. Sometimes it's that. It's that little, but other times
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it's much bigger things. Like you
said, there's this urgency behind everyone else's
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goals, as if to say that
marketings go or somehow less of a priority
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one. In fact, marketings goals
are the goals of the rest of the
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revenue growth teams. Yeah, so, so give us some what I was
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my example because I said I've been
that. got been the girl asking for
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figet spinners. Give us some more
examples of what types of things contribute to
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that assembly line marketing where you guys
are just taking orders. Yeah, I
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mean, let's let's keep going with
fidget spinners. Right, for every fidget
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spinner request there's another and another another. So one strategy I have taken as
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I realize very quickly. Look,
if you're going to be a marketing you're
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going to have plenty of ideas and
plenty of other people that think they can
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market, which is absolutely fine.
We want ideas. So one is should
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lead to really transparent organization. At
this stage in our careers and with companies,
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we've never had so much data out
a fingertips. So be transparent with
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that, so anyone in at Conga
can concee into marketings dashboards how much pipeline
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we're creating, how much new business
were contributing to? What is the Roy
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on certain channel spends? What is
it producing? So one thought is,
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look, we will make that transparent. If we're doing well, then great,
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you can tell us that, but
if we are lacking in any area,
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I am open to someone coming be
and saying hey, have you thought
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about this? Have you thought about
that, because it is our role as
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one of the strategy JIC centers of
the company to deliver for the company.
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We have to take that seriously and
so I think if you lead with more
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of an Roy and data approach,
it does establish some craft ability so that
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if someone does come ask for fidget
spinner, it's an easy decision. It
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can be either hey, we've already
ordered those, don't worry about it,
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or looked, we've decided against doing
that because our research shows that we should
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do this instead. And so at
no point do I ever want it to
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be that marketing should not get feedback. We need it. But what I
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want to do is direct the conversation
towards a wedding strategy. And the same
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way I don't want anybody suggesting things
to me and then me not understanding where
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that suggestion is coming from. Yea
Most effective if that suggestion is driven by
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some common results goal. So if
you know my neighbor sitting next to me,
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I made a lot of cold calls
in my day. So you are
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my neighbor sitting next to me.
Hears me on a call and said,
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hey, you should say this way. I sat it that way. That
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was a lot more weight. If
you're telling me x amount of people have
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said it this way and that's been
successful in the FY you should say it
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that way, not just a person. You know, subjective opinion as what
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happened, because this would be fun
and a lot of time the suggestions that
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from, depending on who's what the
role is. That the person's coming to
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marketing with the suggestion well, I
something. It's just they saw something that
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looks cool and thought it would work, or that a you know, that
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discipline is in trouble and not having
their number and it's starting to roll down
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the other looking for some sort of
way to justify what's going on versus just
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having a more collaborative conversation. And
again, like, I get where you're
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coming from. I know that the
spirit of that, anyone who's read this
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article that you wrote, there is
no spirit of opposition in this. It
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is all love, like it is
all let's figure this thing out, we
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all get to the place that we
all want to get to together. So
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if I say if I sound like
I'm speaking a little harshly, know that
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I'm being hard on myself because,
as I said, I was one of
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the people making me some solicitous suggestions. I mean, I remember this,
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Oh my goodness, the settleman company
I worked at called qualitia. I was
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just so excited about what I had
seen the marketing team do with the company
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that I was ask before that the
first day I met this guy's so embarrassing.
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The first time I met this guy, the Amo I I sit him
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down and show him this other completely
unrelated industry Tou with the unrelated product.
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I didn't know what I was talking
about, but I was just like look,
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so this is what their landing page
looks like and I think our should
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maybe look like that. I mean, it was so out of line,
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but I can't only I know that
even then, even when I was coming
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from just this place of being excited
and saying, Hey, you know,
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if, if, what we're look
trying to get to is this kind of
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machine like they had. You know, I've seen that work and this is
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what it looks like. But yeah, it wasn't coming from any data room
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place, which is why I should
have known to just say nothing. But
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but give us other than coming from
a dad room place. I want,
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I want more. What else can
see Mo than marketing team to do to
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to avoid becoming assembly line markets,
because no one, I know, no
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one, wants to feel like they're
constantly you know that that's their purpose to
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take a quest yeah, we do. Well, I think back to your
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landing page, example with the CMO. It's you know, my experience with
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that is that ninety nine percent of
the time it's not coming from a malicious
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place. It's just someone that is
excited about their job that thinks it might
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help right and so I never wanted
to discourage passion from anyone like that.
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We are here to listen and make
that come true. I do think that
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in some ways, no, for
sure, the modern CMO needs to rebrand
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marketing with them companies, and I
think marketing is often misunderstood and I think
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historically we've done a poor job of
really reporting out on the impact that we
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can have, and this is a
totally different age. Those days are over.
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So a lot of it for me
comes back to how do you establish
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transparency to the rest of the company
so that anyone can know what's happening?
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You lead with data, so that
the data reveals the story for you.
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The data doesn't lie. The data
also informs the strategy, and then a
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CMO needs to articulate a vision and
a strategy for the Marketing Organization and the
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company that is going to drive success. And for me that is meaningful pipeline,
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brand awareness and contributing to a culture. And so if you're doing those
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things, you know Cemo is also
a storyteller. You are inspiring the rest
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of company you're getting buying, you're
getting stakeholders to provide input to help shape
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that. When you're doing that,
then it allows you to direct the marketing
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resources to something that people believe in
for the company and it that one is
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not only inspiring but it's motivating.
It creates a really energetic environment. But
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back to the there's always room for
one more fry when someone comes in with
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a new request that differs from that
strategy. It makes it a much easier
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conversation, for sure. No,
I don't want people to come into melely.
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It's a no or like. We
would never do that, so please
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go away. It's right. It
should be a conversation and a collaboration,
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but if it does divert from a
vision that the company's bought into, it
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absolutely should be not. Yeah,
and if if you look at the research,
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of all the sea level executives,
SMOS have the shortest tenure. Often
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they are under some of the most
pressure because because they have to change an
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organization. And so if you're not
doing that, you're not helping yourself.
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And I love my job, I
love being a combat I plan on being
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here for a while and so for
me it's that's why I wrote that.
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It's it's kind of a rebrand of
marketing and I want to drive strategy.
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I don't want to take orders.
I love it so much. What a
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strong stance to take on this and
what a necessary one. And here's the
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thing, like be to be marketing
and sales is going through. I talked
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about the thought on this show,
sort of this identity shift. Everybody is
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redefining who we are. We as
sales people, are are, thank God,
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you know, in recovery, some
of us in hangover from Hustle,
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foreign culture, and so for marketing
to have its own iteration or version of
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what that identity shift looks like,
I think it's really important and empowering and
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I'm glad that you, you know, came to talk to us about it,
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because what happens is those teams,
right, sales teams, are on
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up, on up through, you
know, even the the VP level,
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director level sales people. When it
comes to vision, like you just mentioned,
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we're most familiar with the CEO's version
of the vision or the founder,
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but we are very rarely put in
front of or given access to, the
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CMO's vision, and I think the
more that that is made visible to sales
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teams and across the organization, then
the more trust there's going to be.
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If I if I've been invited into
your vision as the CMO and, you
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know, given access to this same
dreaming goal and help to understand how it
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is essentially the same, you know, goal as what I'm going for.
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Them far less likely, far less
likely to, you know, make these
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little suggestions that I feel like you
need my little suggestions. The trust has
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been built. You know, the
next you, once I get that,
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you guys, get that buy in, then you know that I don't have
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any reason to say anything deep to
you know, marketers about the just bitters,
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because I know, I've trust that
they've already looked into it and I
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don't have better ideas than them about
this. Now again, there's room within
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that for this fun, excited passion, you know, to come and share
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ideas. But the trust and the
collaboration has got to be stepped up and
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I think it starts just like what
you talked about, where CMOS take a
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stand, take initiative and say,
Hey, we're going to redefine what modern
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marketing is. Thank you so much
for laying that out the way that you
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did before. I move on to
the next segment. I would just like
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to hear, first of all,
congrats on your year. One year adversary
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there in your role. But any
parting with them on this idea for for
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maybe someone else who's starting their first
quarter as a CMO or WHO's starting on
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a team as a you know,
on a larger marketing team, as a
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generalist, as far as how they
can contribue you to redefining the vision of
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what a mardern market is. Yeah, I think you actually just said a
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what a lot of what we've been
talking about so far comes down to trust,
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and I think when I was talking
about how the modern CMO could they
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need to rebrand marketing. It's because
a lot of organizations mistrust marketing, whether
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that's right or wrong. But if
you're a marketer joining an organization or semi
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coming in and to lead it,
the most important thing you need to do
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is established trust to a cross organization, because without that you don't stand a
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chance. And that's why I've really
stressed transparency and use of data and defining
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a vision, because if you're adhering
to that and meeting those goals and and
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the processes and everything in between,
then you're slowly building trust. Doesn't mean
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everyone's going to like you or believe
in what you're doing, but you're least
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establishing trust and that leads to the
ability of collaboration and direct conversations, and
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that is really hard to do in
businesses at time. So my insight is
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what I just stole from you is
so thank you. I love it.
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I love it to death. I
think we're on our way to something.
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Sales and marketing. Let's do it
and everybody get it what they need.
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I Love I love it, but
now that I have Daniel, but that's
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a definitely picked your brain and seeing
what I could get out of it,
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it is time for you to tell
us about what you are putting in it.
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So talk to what about a resource
that you've engave with it? Just
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something that's happening in your life that, as you know, informed your approach
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of the Shit that you excited these
days. Yeah, so I I travel
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a fair amount, so I rely
on audio things. So a lot of
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podcasts that I listened to. They
my favors. Probably how I built this
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just understanding what entrepreneurs have to go
through to get to the finish line.
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It's very similar to what we have
to go through within software. So that's
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a regular thing that for me.
Listen to a lot of audiobooks. So
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speed of trust is one that I
just finished, which is a lot of
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what we've been talking about so far
already. And then I think the one
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that's had the biggest impact on me
and when I talked about frequently, is
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creativity, INC which is the leadership
and creative style of what happens inside picks
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are and and that really taught me
how to be a leader. That is
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is open to feedback from from everyone, where ideas can come from anywhere.
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And, more importantly, is is
focus on suspending the ego from decisionmaking,
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to just focus on what's best,
and that is something I'm really passionate about.
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I had here to serve and leadership
mentorship is really important to me.
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So another reason I like to be
transparent because I want feedback, I want
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criticism, I want to be the
best and I can't do that if people
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want to direct me. I love
it. Then you got a lot in
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common with me and a lot of
the values as we fish media. I'm
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so glad that you came on to
talk about this. That's really, really
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important topic with us. Yeah,
I know that, just like me,
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Bolk listening are becoming fast fans of
yours are going to want to know how
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to keep in touch with you.
Let us know how both can connect with
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you. Daniel. Yeah, so
I think I'm the only Daniel and Condalla
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so that if you searched that,
you're going to get pointed in the right
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place. I'm pretty active on twitter, which is at Daniel and condella perfect.
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All right, good stuff. Will
have to have you on to gain
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when you write your neck metifesto or
once we've successfully navigated that markers and stale
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people that's been fleshing port that we're
at, we'll all look back and have
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a laugh. Thank you so much
for being on. The show man,
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how a good one. Thanks so
much for having me. We totally get
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it. We publish a ton of
content on this podcast and it can be
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00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.069
a lot to keep up with.
That's why we've started the Beeb growth big
297
00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:08.470
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that boils down our three biggest takeaways from
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00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:15.190
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