Transcript
WEBVTT
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Looking for a guaranteed way to create
content that resonates with your audience? Start
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a podcast, interview your ideal clients
and let them choose the topic of the
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interview, because if your ideal clients
care about the topic, there's a good
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chance the rest of your audience will
care about it too. Learn more at
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sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to
be tob growth, a daily podcast for
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B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names
you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner
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truck and Simon Senek, but you've
probably never heard from the majority of our
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guests. That's because the bulk of
our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors.
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Most of our guests are in the
trenches leading sales and marketing teams.
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They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with
tactics, they're building the fastest growing be
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tob companies in the world. My
name is James Carberry. I'm the founder
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of sweet fish media, a podcast
agency for BB brands, and I'm also
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one of the CO hosts of this
show. When we're not interviewing sales and
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marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from
behind the scenes of our own business.
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Will share the ups and downs of
our journey as we attempt to take over
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the world. Just getting well?
Maybe let's get into the show. COME
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BACK TO BE TOB growth. I
am your host for a date episode,
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Nikki Ivy, with food media as
I've got with me today, Tom Kenny,
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who who is president and CEO of
Smash Fly Com. How you doing
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today? I'm doing great. How
are you doing? Okay, I'm doing
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wow. You know, I stayed
hurricase story it for this and being on
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new offline them. I'm not here
mom that we're Atlanta and, as I
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typically say, the sun is shining
and I cannot complain. But what I'm
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I'm super excited about what we're going
to be talking about today. Guys.
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We are going to be transformation as
a pertains to recruitment and how leaders can
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embrace that concept of transformation and something
that Tom Calls the tour of duty model
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when it comes to what the workforce
looks like and what work experience looks like
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these days, and so I'm super
excited to get into that. But before
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we do, Tom I would love
it if you would just give us a
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little bit of background on yourself and
what you and the folks are smash why
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I've been up to these days.
Sure, I'm Suah entrepreneurs done a bunch
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of different businesses and come in and
helped businesses grow and did that was smashfly
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a little while ago. You know, one of the things that was really
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interesting about smash fly was understanding the
amount of data that we have, the
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amount of candidates that we work with, the companies that we work with.
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All of this data really helps power
some tools that deliver artificial intelligence solutions to
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really identifying talent and then getting that
talent on board. You know, one
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of the challenges that I think a
lot of major companies have is it's not
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about more people, it's about the
right people the right time with the right
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hiring managers to get them on board. So we work with a lot of
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different customers around the world to really
identify through recruitment marketing, which is really
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just trying to show potential candidates what
the value proposition of working for that company
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is. We create those connections between
people, we help them nurture those candidates
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and they end up with great outcomes. You're helping to find a lot of
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people find really great opportunities and for
us. It's been over one point two
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million people of found jobs with smash
flying. I mean I love that statistic,
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talking about how every single day we're
helping to make somebody's life a little
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bit better. I absolutely love it. We were just talking off line about
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my passion and it sounds like I
shared passion for connecting humans and connecting with
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humans and it relates to what we're
going to be digging into today. So
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so, when it comes to this
idea of the tour of duty model and
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transformation within organizations, with the way
that the work force sort of moves these
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days, talk about some of the
the barriers to embracing that tour of duty
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model and this this transformation that people
are saying. Well, Nikki, let
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me talk just for a second about
what that tour duty model is to us.
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You know, when we think about
when we were growing up in our
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parents there were looking at a job
that they would have for thirty or forty
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years, that we get a pension
and they would retire. But where we
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are in today's market economy, not
just the GIG economy, which is a
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little bit different, but in today's
economy, people have flexibility, the workforce
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is very fluid. People are moving
around quite a bit and when you think
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about that, you can go from
a position that you have for three years
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to another job for four years,
to another job for three years, and
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when you think about it, you're
really bringing all of your experience and all
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of your talent to bear with who
you're employed by at that particular point in
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time. Why it's transformative is when
you think about that as a tour of
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duty, you know, doing three
years here and four years they're what you're
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doing is you're building a really diverse
skill set. You're not just taking skills
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and experiences from one company. You've
actually got multiple. But what's interesting is
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when you talk to some hiring managers
and you talk to some recruiters, sometimes
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it's a little bit of a stigma. You know someone who might have had
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two or three jobs in the past
ten years. There are some folks to
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look at that and say, oh
well, they're just going to leave me
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in another three years, so I'm
not even going to talk to that person,
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but look instead at the experiences that
they've had. You know, what
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were they able to do three jobs
ago, two jobs ago, their last
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job? And if those people are
coming into the organization and they're bringing energy
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and they're bringing excitement and they're bringing
completely new perspectives to the business that they're
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in. That's a transformative angle that
I don't think a lot of companies are
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really embracing yet. You know,
they're worried a little bit more about when
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they might lose someone, so they're
looking at the timelines that this person has
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been involved within the past, but
they're missing the opportunity all these diverse experiences
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they're going to bring, especially those
people that are in different geographic locations and
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different kinds of businesses. The type
of experiential learning that they get in those
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organizations is truly a fundamental aspect of
some of the businesses that are changing industries
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and even inventing new industries. Yeah, for sure, and I think,
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I think even I mean you're talking
about three to four years. I think
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when you're talking specifically about some of
the the startups, I think you can
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learn like startup months are like dog
years, right, like the amount of
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information and experience and real applicable,
actionable education that you can get in a
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startup role, whether you're, you
know, working in a sales function or
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marketing function or customer success function.
You're so right. It is like doing
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a tour of duty, sometimes in
the form of taking heavy fire if you're
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if you're an SCR and one of
those is getting hung up at a lot,
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like I was early in my career. But but you're to your point.
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Yes, to focus on listen,
this person, you know, more
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than survived this environment's person went in
this environment, contributed whatever they did and
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does bring with them a wealth of
of knowledge and experience that, if you
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let it, can be extremely valuable
in this in this new environment. So
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I love that that's the the the
way that you're framing this conversation and sort
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of, you know, hints at
its other aspect of it that we were
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that we were talking about, which
is when you work in these environments,
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typically you've been exposed to a lot
of change, right, and that is
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might apply even more to the one
of the three or four year models.
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Right, the amount of change that
the organization that this person is coming from
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likely experienced and adapted to and learn
from is valuable is at this next place
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that they go. But you said, a lot of folks aren't focused on
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that because they're worring about other things. Talk about that for us. So,
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if you think about start particular,
like you chatted about earlier, the
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idea behind a startup and the way
that we're adapting really is a part of
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transformation, right you you can't have
transformation without adaptation, and I think that's
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why a lot of companies really love
the startup experience, you know, to
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bring somebody who's at least one that
once or twice for two reasons. One,
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I think if you've failed, you
learn a lot from your failure.
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I mean, I've certainly had plenty
of them and I've learned a lot from
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them. The very first startup that
I ever did, you know, one
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of the one of my claims to
fame is that, yeah, it did.
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It wasn't a million dollar idea,
it wasn't huge. Yeah, it
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a nice, nice outcome, but
I learned along the way all these different
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mistakes that that I made trying to
do sales and trying to do marketing.
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And even if you look at the
roles, like you mentioned, a marketing
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position and a startup, a marketing
person and a startup is going to be
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doing seo and they're going to do
product marketing and they're going to build collateral
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for the sales team and they're going
to help build a website and they're going
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to, you know, be a
part of being in a booth for some
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conference. If you're in a thousand
person marketing team, you're going to have
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a very narrow focus. You're going
to have a lot of work and you're
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going to be very busy, but
you're gonna have a narrow focus and a
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startup that experiential learning and all of
the stuff that you're doing to try to
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transform that company into something that self
sustainable. You are adapting what you do
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every single day and you're feeding that
experiential learning tool set that you're going to
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bring in build on for the rest
of your career. Yeah, yeah,
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they used to call this, right, this person that has this skill set
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that is more broad and gentleman school. They call that a backpack journalist.
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And so you're what you're talking about
is these environments that build backpack marketers,
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a backpack sales people. Right,
they've got, you know, everything there,
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one man bad. They don't have
to be right, but understand,
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especially now, when're at this inflection
point where everybody is talking about and striving
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towards those a marketing alignment. There's
perhaps no better environment to get to understand
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how those two functions work together then
in a startup environment. And so yeah,
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these are folks that that, when
you talk about that transformation and that
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tour of duty model, that are
really going to be bringing the value.
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And so I like the way you're
challenging people to really think that when they
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when they see these these stints.
You know whether, I would say,
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if you're from about startups, whether
it's the six months then or four years
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stin or a three year stant,
whatever it is, to really just be
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asking the right questions about that time
spent to try and and and Glean what
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was learned, what was experienced,
what value could be brought. I love
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this. I love it so much, and it's to the end of something
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else that you mentioned offline, which
is, you know, this is not
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about when you when you look at
a lot of folks are right, who
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were probably listening to the show and
who you work with and interact was on
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regular basis. Right, you loo
can get building a team and trying to
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get folks to stay on a team
rather than looking at it, as you
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mentioned, as far as like how
hard can I push this person to get
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get, get, get, get
thinking about how to, as you put
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it, open better doors. I
think all of the steps that we've just
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talked about taking ahead of time,
as far as how we already are framing
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the conversation, frame how you look
at people, is really important. But
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talk to us a little bit about
that last piece of basically empowering those people
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once you've gotten the higher well,
the first thing I'd say is it's not
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necessarily about better doors. It's just
about doors. In our role is leaders.
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We've got to be able to give
people the opportunities to walk through these
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doors that they want to walk through. They may walk through a door that's
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on a cliff and it may not
be a better door at all, but
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they need the opportunity to be able
to grow, throw in, to explore,
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and one of the things that we've
done we've actually got a really amazing
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person that was on our marketing team
and we were trying to create more alignment
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with our sales team, between our
marketing sales team, just like we were
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talking about earlier. And so one
of the things that I see is my
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job is to open up doors to
new opportunities where they can grow and succeed,
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but not tell them which door to
go through. Just give them the
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flexibility, allow them to take risks. You know it, the risk averse
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manager. You've got to be risk
averse with certain things. We all recognize
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that, but we can't be so
risk averse that we prevent people from bringing
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their ideas to us by having their
look at the future goals and where they
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want to be in where the company
wants to be. And we brought this
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person over from the marketing side and
allowed her to open a door. She
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said this is where I want to
go, this is the door I want
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to open and for me, with
a servant leadership mentality, it's like fine,
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here the tools that you need to
open that door. And too opened
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it and my Gosh, the transformation
that we've seen in the ability to communicate
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on a metrics perspective between our marketing
and our sales team has been absolutely dramatic.
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So it's about really ensuring that as
you're embracing transformation, as you're allowing
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people to grow, you're just giving
them the keys to open those doors,
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give them the tools that they need
to succeed rather than telling them what they
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need to do. Let them show
you how they can just completely surprise you
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with new ideas, new directions,
and sometimes when you give people that level
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of flexibility and give them those opportunities, you open up tremendously new markets.
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You think about slack. Slack built
a tool inside their company to communicate because
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somebody had an idea that we don't
communicate well, so I'm going to build
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something. And whatever that first business
was the slack thought they were going to
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do. Nobody remembers that. Everybody
remembers somebody gave someone a chance and let
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them open a door, and look
at what happened to a company like that.
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I could not agree more. The
funny thing is, right the irony
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of if you don't take this approach
that you and I are talking about right,
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it's folks who, when recruiting talent, folks who do still focus on
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what they as an organization, you
know, focus too much, that is,
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and what they do as an organization, stand to lose rather than the
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doors that they can open because they're
afraid that, you know, they'll be
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turnover or folks won't you know,
I'm going to get this person who's not,
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you know, loyal, and that
the stay long will if you do
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what you're talking about and given the
tools to open doors, those are the
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types of things that retain people.
Those are absolutely I felt it. It
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makes people want to stay. So
you end up having this self fulfilling prophecy
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if you're so focused on failure and
who's going to leave you versus, just
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like how can that take these caterpillars
into butterflies? You feel me? I
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love it. Thank you so much
for if you're laying that out for us
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and and let it get to know
a little bit about this thing that you're
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so passionate about and and given this
to our to our listeners. But now,
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now, Tom After, I've got
a chance to successfully Pique your brain
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and see it I could get out
of it. Time for you to tell
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us what you are putting in it. Tell us about a learning resource that
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you've engaged with here recently that you
know. It's a form in your approach.
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You've got you excited these days.
So one of the things that I
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think is is very important as we
look at the future landscape of education or
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all of the resources you have for
online education. So one of the plugs
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that I'd put out there is for
ed x and if you don't know what
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ed x is, it's actually a
collaboration of a number of major universities that
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are putting some of the best content
for education online. So if you're a
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salesperson and you want to understand a
little bit more about marketing, they've got
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a marketing class. If you're a
marketing person and you want to understand you
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know, all these people are talking
about AIAIAI. What the HECK IS AI?
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Take an introductory ai course, maybe
a little bit of programming. You
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know, these types of technologies are
just going to become much more ubiquitous around
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the world. You know that self
education, that's self learning, is so
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important if you truly want to be
successful in your career. So something like
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Edex can really help you move your
needle forward. I use them all the
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time for just quick and dirty courses
just understand a topic a little bit better
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or an idea a little bit better, and it helps them for me and
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for my decisions. Yeah, you
know, there was another one. It's
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sort of like that, but it's
as called Corsa that I like subscribe to
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and then ignored to go because I
felt like a big good bitment. I'm
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telling on myself now, but but
this one used that quick and dirty you
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say. This one sounds like something
that I would probably have time to do.
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So thank you for the recommendation.
I love this kind of stuff.
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I haven't heard any answer like that
yet, so you in the day.
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Thank you so much. The sounds
like me. I know that everybody listening
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to this podcast has become a fast
fan of yours. They'RE gonna want to
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keep up with you. Let us
know. How can people connect with you?
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Best ways through twitter at smash fly
CEO. See, I was expecting
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linkedin and here you go, surprise
in me again. Thank you Ho much
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on the show. I've definitely be
reusing out to you and following you on
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twitter just to see whatever little jewels
I can I can feel. Frankly,
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this has been really, really great. I'm glad to have you on and
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I think this is the kind of
the kind of content with is our thing.
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Thanks very much, Nick. It
really excited. Appreciate it. We
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totally get it. We publish a
ton of content on this podcast and it
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can be a lot to keep up
with. That's why we've started to be
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to be growth big three. A
note fluff email that boils down our three
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00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:33.099
biggest takeaways from an entire week of
episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish
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00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:37.900
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